TinySA Ultra launched

[skander36]

From Aliexpress I bought from here : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005011395655.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.29.898a1802IFXq6w .
It pass all tests after upgrade to latest versions.

[horo]

Im asking as I can see Erik refers to a single store on Aliexpress, while there are like 30 to 40 Aliexpres stores that are selling the TinySA Ultra , so for that Ultra model you can just pick and choose.?

For you in Denmark, I would recommend the Dutch seller eleshop.eu (also suggested by Erik) - fast and safe, shipping costs are only 9€. I received my tinySA (Basic) within a few days.

Martin

[skander36]

Zeenko store is the recomended store from Alexpress by Erik. This is the factory store.
They sell with 109 E + 10 E shipping.
Eleshop sell with about 190 E + 20E (for Romania) shipping.

[bingo600]

Im asking as I can see Erik refers to a single store on Aliexpress, while there are like 30 to 40 Aliexpres stores that are selling the TinySA Ultra , so for that Ultra model you can just pick and choose.?

For you in Denmark, I would recommend the Dutch seller eleshop.eu (also suggested by Erik) - fast and safe, shipping costs are only 9€. I received my tinySA (Basic) within a few days.

Martin

I concur.
I bought my Ultra , my H4 and my LITE @eleshop.eu
Shipping was just  a few days 

/Bingo

[DaneLaw]

# 98 / #99
Yes, the smaller variant does seem to have been cloned quite a bit with inferior filtering and also some variables in esd chip, but I havent seen signs of clones on the Ultra so far, and Erik also validated that some weeks back, and until now, we havent seen signs of clones on the "ultra".
3 names seem to be protruding on the Ultra, "Zeenko", "Hugen" and to some extent also "SeeSii Factory Store"
I do recall "Hugen" from numerous years back, they often released variants of the VNA with their name on certain VNA-products.. likely part of the production backland, as sources like Banggood were pushing products under that Hugen-brand and Zeenko seems to front as an org. channel, as some of their accessories, like attenuators etc, seems to have been laser-engraved with the "TinyVNA/SA" label.

Overall the TinySa prices on the "Ultra" seem to be quite aligned around the +150US with incl. EU VAT.
This one was the cheapest on the Tiny Sa Ultra I could find though there is a few others that seem to be a buck or two cheaper, but also with a lower buyer-store-percentage feedback ratings and down around 84%.
if it's a legit seller, I don't know yet' as there is no buyer-feedback on the product as per se' and the store got a 92.6% feedback rating as a whole, though storename dont inspire confidence with just a number.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005241119145.html?

There are like 30 to 40 different stores selling the Ultra, and my guess is that its resellers of the original, - and when getting an order, they holla back at their main original TinySa-Ultra source and make an order on your behalf, and make a minor buck on that flipping act. - but its China, so likely only a matter of time before "clones " of the "TinySA Ultra" will see daylight, and we will see Ultra-models where they skimped on certain aspects to elevate the profit while giving the impression it's the original, - unless there are certain parts on the Ultra, that make that clone-tactic not viable, but I doubt it.

[DaneLaw]

Thx' for the recommendation of Eleshop.
I am familiar with Eleshop, & seems like a good store, - and for some items, it makes very good sense, not least if you don't wanna wait on the slow boat from China and all the hazzle/risk that often comes when using sources like fx Aliexpress, like cheaters, scammers, using fake tracking from other people in your region, from Aliexpress-sellers trying to snatch your purchase amount, while in fact haven't shipped anything and you can't do jack, as the system won't allow you to dispute before certain criteria are meet.. like fx no-movement on the tracking for a certain amount of weeks, you need to wait weeks/months before the system will accept a dispute, so no doubt Aliexpress aint ideal if there are other trustworthy-sources and the price difference aint to massive.

- but also quite a difference in price.
TinySa Ultra [Eleshop] incl. DK VAT and shipping. = 235.5 USD (213 euro)
While Aliexpress (incl. VAT & shipping) igs quite a bit cheaper and from time to time also has sale & coupons, that will subsidize the purchase price to an extent.
More or less the same tactic you see fx on eBay - when they offer sitewide or segment specific-codes, that will reduce your price.
but no doubt that Eleshop makes very good sense, for peace of mind, & fast shipping, and if you encounter problems, it's inside EU and you dont have to deal with shipping it to China.
All those benefits do go a long way, not to mention being able to circumvent all the problems you encounter from time to time when buying from sources like Aliexpress, where it's sadly a luck of a draw the morale of the seller you doing business with.

[bingo600]

Thx' for the recommendation of Eleshop.


- but also quite a difference in price.
TinySa Ultra [Eleshop] incl. DK VAT and shipping. = 235.5 USD (213 euro)
While Aliexpress (incl. VAT & shipping) can be up around -100 to 110 USD cheaper if you purchase it when they are having sales, & Aliexpress are subsidizing with coupons, + the use of fx cashback sites.

If buying from Ali
You'd want to get it from here
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004934403303.html

That store is the Manuf , according to Erik
https://tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Buying

It seems like there might already be Ultra clones out there , they usually fail the attenuator selftest.

/Bingo

[DaneLaw]

It seems like there might already be Ultra clones out there , they usually fail the attenuator selftest.

Hi Bingo, what are you basing, "it seems" on?
As mentioned above.. Erik Kaashoek was not familiar with any signs of "Ultra clones" [yet] a week or two back, so it would be quite useful' if we could conclude that "Ultra clones" are actually hitting the market as of now..would love to hear what you're basing "it seems" on.?

[james_s]

One simple example of the use of a spectrum analyzer is to connect a radio transmitter, through a suitable attenuator, to check that harmonics are below the legal limit. Before Tiny SA this was not available for cheap to the common HAM operator. We had to do with used equipment if we could do the measurement at all.

That's exactly what I initially got my HP spectrum analyzer for, checking the output of homebuilt transmitters for harmonics, and identifying the frequency of RF remotes and other such things. I don't have a TinySA but I've been tempted to pick one up for times when I want something portable, it looks like a cool little instrument.

[james_s]

Usually a SA is not used to sample digital IC pins like that and the analog RF circuit would include methods to tap the signal if relevant.

However if you wanted to, you could use a 5k resistor. This would then form a voltage divider with the 50 ohm in the instrument. You would get 1% of the signal. Beware however the 5V DC limit because you could easily exceed that even with the resistor.

It's fairly common for a spectrum analyzer to have a 0VDC maximum input, you MUST use a separate DC blocker on these. All spectrum analyzers are fragile compared to an oscilloscope, which are fragile compared to a multimeter. Even a $$$$ professional SA is very easy to damage if you don't know what you're doing.

[MathWizard]

I don't have a SA or VNA, or any of the accessories for them. So if I buy the TinySA Ultra and also a NanoVNA V2 plus4  from a legit sellers......they should include some terminators and cables. What other accessories, if any, should I get at the same time ?

I have a 120MHz SDS2142X AWG (and proper oscilloscopes), but no accessories for that either. So no splitters, or terminators, or proper cables, or BNC stuff in general. If I made some filter on a copper clad board, I'd need BNC connectors to solder on to it just to make test jigs.

I'm not into HAM radio or anything seriously high frequency, I'm just a hobbyists that knows I could use these once and a while.

[Bicurico]

To work wit any spectrum analyser, I would recommend owning the following accessories:

DC blocker: important when there are chances that the input signal carries a voltage to power an amplifier or similar, very common for CATV and SAT signal cables.

Attenuators: lots of them. You need them to attenuate the inputs signal so that it doesn't overload the input stage. Best is a switchable attenuator so that you can start with big attenuation and switch down to suitable attenuation, especially when you don't know what the signal power is.

Adapters: all sorts of adapters for different connector types

Cables: good ones

Note that the accessories can end up costing more than the TinySA itself

[rteodor]

I don't have a SA or VNA, or any of the accessories for them. So if I buy the TinySA Ultra and also a NanoVNA V2 plus4  from a legit sellers......they should include some terminators and cables. What other accessories, if any, should I get at the same time ?

I have a 120MHz SDS2142X AWG (and proper oscilloscopes), but no accessories for that either. So no splitters, or terminators, or proper cables, or BNC stuff in general. If I made some filter on a copper clad board, I'd need BNC connectors to solder on to it just to make test jigs.

I'm not into HAM radio or anything seriously high frequency, I'm just a hobbyists that knows I could use these once and a while.

Note that the accessories can end up costing more than the TinySA itself

It is better to stay with one type of connectors as much as possible.
SMA DC blocker: Nooelec. cca. 20EUR
SMA attenuator set (6 pcs: 1/2/?/10/15/20): Nooelec. cca 50EUR
SMA adapter set (18 pcs., some are SMA-RP): Ylianduo(Amazon) cca. 20EUR
SMA jack pcb side (5pcs): cca. 7EUR
SMA terminators 50ohm (5 pcs.): cca. 10EUR
SMA cables: things can go wild here
SMA port savers: lowest price for just about any manufacturer 16..18EUR/pcs !
SMA Nano VNA RF demo kit: cca. 12EUR

Joy of finding out what's in there (or out there): priceless.

Note that not all of the above are needed. But get a DC block, a 20...30dB attenuator, 2..3 cables and a few SMA-F to SMA-F adapters and it's a start.

Later edit: the demo kit for NanoVNA is great for experimenting with filters. You would need then also a BNC to SMA adapter.

[Escalator]

How sensitive are attenuators, hence their wattage rating?
Many of the SMA ones which are often labeled up to 6GHz https://www.nooelec.com/store/attenuator-bundle.html
with no added-visual fan-sinks, are usually with a rating at 2Watt.
# Is that wattage-rating sustained load that you in theory could use it with fx a 3 to 4-watt walkie-talkie, just as long as its a minor brief few-second test and you have an awareness on it not getting hot, if they rely on their outer casing as a sink?

and most of these small sma-attenuators, I guess are bi-directional, so they got no bias on which way they are fitted and you could in theory also daisy chain them for an added -dbm value, just as long as you have an eye on the power, as the first in line is the one, that is gonna eat the majority of the power?

[pdenisowski]

It's fairly common for a spectrum analyzer to have a 0VDC maximum input, you MUST use a separate DC blocker on these.

Please see my earlier post:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tinysa-ultra-launched/msg4793825/#msg4793825

Most modern "professional" spectrum analyzers can safely tolerate a DC input voltage. 

All spectrum analyzers are fragile compared to an oscilloscope, which are fragile compared to a multimeter.

I agree that most multimeters are (or can be) pretty rugged, but there are plenty of "fragile" scopes and "tough" spec ans.  I've personally used portable spectrum analyzer and receivers in the field for years -- on rooftops, bouncing around in vehicles, etc. -- and never had one fail.  I've also seen spec ans that have suffered hair-curling damage to their chassis and still function properly.

Even a $$$$ professional SA is very easy to damage if you don't know what you're doing.

Yep   Most spec ans are damaged either by excessive power blowing out the front end or physical damage to the connector.  If you make it past the first mixer, you're usually safe

[rteodor]

Most modern "professional" spectrum analyzers can safely tolerate a DC input voltage. 

Aside from the (already heated) debate on the SA input, the DC block is also protecting the probed circuit.
Just imagine a noob like me, probing at the transistor leg without DC block and directly into the attenuator ...

[mawyatt]

All spectrum analyzers are fragile compared to an oscilloscope, which are fragile compared to a multimeter.

I agree that most multimeters are (or can be) pretty rugged, but there are plenty of "fragile" scopes and "tough" spec ans.  I've personally used portable spectrum analyzer and receivers in the field for years -- on rooftops, bouncing around in vehicles, etc. -- and never had one fail.  I've also seen spec ans that have suffered hair-curling damage to their chassis and still function properly.

"Fragile" could be interpreted as electrically fragile rather than physically. With this in mind, the DMM, the scope, then SA are probably in the right order wrt to the electrical "hardness". We almost always keep a type N 10dB pad connected to the SA just in case, which requires at least some short time "thinking" when removing and hopefully prevents us from doing something dumb

Best

[erikka]

Fragility should always we considered together with aspects such as performance, cost and size.
Any design is a balance between these parameters and any choice may be wrong for some users. These users best acknowledge they have different needs and select a device with a difference balance as it is impossible to be optimal on all aspects for all users.

[Bicurico]

The problem with spectrum analysers is that it is quite easy to do something dumb. While you are still figuring out what is happening, your frontend is already fried.

It's not because the SA is "fragile" electrically or physically. It just was made to measure one kind of signal and a different kind of signal can break it. It is that easy.

I fried a cheap SMA 35-4400MHz device (similar to the LTDZ, designed by BG7TBL), because I was measuring CATV (no problem) and in the excitement I hooked up a satellite TV signal, forgetting about the 18V used to feed the LNB and select horizontal polarity. A few seconds later, I got only noise: the M810 mixer was dead. In this case it was easy to replace it.

Such spontaneous and unplanned decisions is what breaks the device...

Now I always have a DC blocker, when the SA is not used I screw in a 50 Ohm terminator and when attaching an unknown device, I start with a huge extrnal attenuator. And of course, before connecting a premium SA, I first connect a cheap one.

[pdenisowski]

when attaching an unknown device, I start with a huge extrnal attenuator.

Agree completely:  a big attenuator when measuring unknown signals is always a good idea

And of course, before connecting a premium SA, I first connect a cheap one.

An RF power sensor is also a good choice: wide bandwidth and easy to use.  I would much rather explain frying a power sensor than frying a spec an

[nctnico]

It is better to stay with one type of connectors as much as possible.
SMA DC blocker: Nooelec. cca. 20EUR
SMA attenuator set (6 pcs: 1/2/?/10/15/20): Nooelec. cca 50EUR
SMA adapter set (18 pcs., some are SMA-RP): Ylianduo(Amazon) cca. 20EUR
SMA jack pcb side (5pcs): cca. 7EUR
SMA terminators 50ohm (5 pcs.): cca. 10EUR
SMA cables: things can go wild here
SMA port savers: lowest price for just about any manufacturer 16..18EUR/pcs !
SMA Nano VNA RF demo kit: cca. 12EUR

I like SMB better because it is pluggable and thus quicker to connect / disconnect. For experimental setups, I use SMB. There are also SMA adapters that make an SMA connector pluggable.

I've also become wary of the cheaper attenuators and terminators. They may not work up to their advertised frequencies. I don't care so much about cables (unless necessary) but I tend to buy things like adapters, terminators and attenuators from reputable brands & suppliers nowadays.

[DaneLaw]

I tend to prefer MCX for plugable snap-on RF connectors, SMB often has a tendency to interlock too tight for my test-purpose and can be a pain to split.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140503222150/http://rosenberger.de/documents/headquarters_de_en/ba_communication/catalog_coax/04_Chapter_MCX.pdf

[kcbrown]

All spectrum analyzers are fragile compared to an oscilloscope, which are fragile compared to a multimeter.  Even a big-dollar professional SA is very easy to damage if you don't know what you're doing.

If anything, I'd expect the high-dollar professional SA to be easier to damage than the less expensive units.  In part this is because if you're using a particularly expensive piece of equipment, it's generally going to be presumed that you know what you're doing (if only because as a general rule, such equipment is owned by companies and no sane company is going to let anyone near such equipment unless they've demonstrated that they know what they're doing).  But more importantly, the high dollar equipment is so expensive because it tends to be more sensitive, more capable, etc., and that (from what I've seen) generally requires compromises in robustness.

Or so it seems to me.   I suppose that the additional money could go into beefing up the robustness of the device, but when the price goes into the 10K+ range, it's hard to see what the motivation would be for that (the exception might be units that are intended to go into the field rather than be in a lab environment).

[TimFox]

Besides adding to the cost, effective input protection can degrade the performance of the SA.

[RAPo]

in case of doubt, first test with a powersnitch.