TLA7AA4 P6860 Probe Artwork

[bench_knob]

Hi All,

I bought a TLA7AA4-CS for $100 and a set of (4x) P6860 cables for $125! Hah! As I've heard it said around here, the cables are how the surplus guys make their burritos!  The probes were shipped inside good quality metal zippered anti-static bags, and all had their nut-bars in place, along with a Tektronix (061-4254-00) proper care and feeding of P6860 probe blurb (see photo attachments). It was a sweet deal. Now if I could just use them...

So....I'm making an Eagle (v5.5) PCB component library for the P6860 cables, to enable me to fabricate a flying lead adapter board and Mictor adapter board sets. 

I completed the component library last evening, but in double checking things I noticed the keep-out zone is touching the elastomer-holder 'key'-hole radius. I've checked and double checked the Tektronix mechanical drawing (071-1059-04, pg 72) against the Eagle CAD drawing that I made and its spot on numerically, down to +- .0005mm, but eyeballing the actual part and also using my digital calipers, I did a rough check on the part itself.....there seems to be something wrong with the Tektronix drawing.  Unfortunately, CadSoft EAGLE (as far as I have been able to determine), does not import Allgro or Cadence CAD files, else I'd just import it and be done with it.

So, anybody out there have an accurate P6860 mechanical drawing from which a useful PCB layout has successfully been made? (that way I know it works)  I just need an accurate mechanical drawing.  I don't feel like sending out for fab two or three proto-boards while trying to guess things out.

@TiN
I plugged in your SPI/I2C dll & TSF files per your instructions, and hah! They work great on my new TLA7AA4. I also tried your serial decoders on my new TLA7N4, for which I received error messages.  I'm curious how did you know how to trap the internal messages that TLA software uses? Is there a Tek ref book with this type info in it?  In any case, I'll study your code and figure things out, thanks for sharing your engineering.

Thx in advance

bench_knob
ps when I get things straightened out, I'll post the P6860 library & adapter sch/boards here in the EEVblog...

[TiN]

Great price, i paid triple of that for module and two 6860's

From ALTERA Stratix III devkit board.

I'm curious how did you know how to trap the internal messages that TLA software uses? Is there a Tek ref book with this type info in it?

Not that I know about.
Stuff I originally used is stolen from nick-o @ Sparkfun. I just polished it for my own system, nothing else. 

[bench_knob]

>

Stuff I originally used is stolen from nick-o @ Sparkfun. I just polished it for my own system, nothing else. 

TiN,

Nice drawing, thank you. Re; SparkFun, "Nick-o", isn't that our Ncto? I seem to recall similar routines on another website posted by nicto? 

Onward...

bench_knob

[Sailor]

@bench_knob
This is exactly what I was planning on making - I got four of those for $30 each. They've arrived, but I'm still waiting on my TLA715... I have spent some time studying the mechanical drawing, and thinking about how to strain-relieve the flying leads without making it too bulky. Anyway, I noticed that you quoted  (071-1059-04, pg 72), whereas my 6800 manual is numbered by section i.e. my drawing is on page 2-28, even though the document title is the same as yours. There is no date on it, but if you think it might have different data, let me know and I'll email it to you.

EDIT!    Duh, I just realized it's page 72 in Foxit Reader...

[nctnico]

>

Stuff I originally used is stolen from nick-o @ Sparkfun. I just polished it for my own system, nothing else. 

TiN,

Nice drawing, thank you. Re; SparkFun, "Nick-o", isn't that our Ncto? I seem to recall similar routines on another website posted by nicto? 

Yes. One and the same  On my turn I used some basic code provided by a user called 'Schnelle' from the Tektronix forum. All in all some nice teamwork!

Edit: regarding fixing flying wires: I'd use the screws to attach a small PCB to act as a strain relief. The gold plated traces come off very easy from ceramic carriers.

[bench_knob]

Quote from: Sailor on May 26, 2014, 09:32:44 PM>Quote>Quote

@bench_knob
This is exactly what I was planning on making - I got four of those for $30 each. They've arrived, but I'm still waiting on my TLA715... I have spent some time studying the mechanical drawing, and thinking about how to strain-relieve the flying leads without making it too bulky. Anyway, I noticed that you quoted  (071-1059-04, pg 72), whereas my 6800 manual is numbered by section i.e. my drawing is on page 2-28, even though the document title is the same as yours. There is no date on it, but if you think it might have different data, let me know and I'll email it to you.

EDIT!    Duh, I just realized it's page 72 in Foxit Reader...

Hi Sailor, NctNico, TiN,

Congrats on your score!! Sounds like you and I bought our (4x) probe-sets from the same dealer?! Mine also cost ~$30 ea, and they each were shipped inside a quality metal zippered anti-static bags.  They were properly labeled, one set of four and had black holders too! I feel that it was a nice deal. Re; my TLA7AA4 module, its a CS version, and I guess, when I grow some larger balls, I'll see if TiN's memory hack works on mine as well!  Hah!

@NctNico (sorry about the earlier mispellings), thanks for sharing your 'Schnell' mods. We are all in this together. Ours is a little group of TLA Hack'nQuacks, heh heh. My TLA704 is working sooo sweet now thanks to the various folks in our little community. And, its amazing to me just how poor the original Tektronix version was prior to all of the modifications, and that original low performance version cost alot of money too!  However, as someone on the Tektronix forum said, they 'put a lot of effort into the new module designs', because they are much faster....the modules are actually usable...compared with some of the other modules. Those older modules work ok, if one only uses small acquisition memory depth, but the more memory the slower they become.   However, I've used my two older modules for all sorts of projects, so they are not useless.

Re; the P6860 footprint, I made a CadSoft Eagle (v5.50) library component and I've created a schematic and a board using it to enable (PCB house) fabrication of a PCB for a P6860 17Ch probe adapter board. I laid out the board using 2x 2,54mm (0.100") 2x8 IDC header patterns. I placed them (via a brain anomaly) on the same side as the elastomer-pad 'connector', in review, I think I should have placed them on opposite sides. I tried to keep the trace-lengths the same, but the Eagle PCB program (excellent for its co$t) doesn't provide matched-trace-length functionality. That and depending upon the PCB dielectric material used, will affect the maximum signal speed that can be probed using the adapter board and frankly I have no reasonable strategy to test its limitations. So basically what I'm saying, is that I think the adapter will be mainly usefull for  lower speed applications in lieu of the guarenteed hi-speed version $2000 third-party adapter boards that are available commercially.  (hint hint to hobbyiests reading this.) If you need high-speed, get the good stuff.

I'll upload everything tomorrow after I double double check everything. Also, I'm thinking about re-routing the adapter board and placing the 2x 2x8 connector patterns on the other side, I think it'll be much more useful that way? Also, I'm considering making the adapter board compatible with the P6810 flying-lead end-effectors, as those are available for (too F'n much money IMO, unless they are differential), so what'a y'all think?  .100" or .070" pitch patterns?  .100" are everywhere, and easily attainable, while the 0.070" parts aren't, but will make the adapter compatible with Tek P6810 (# 196-3470-00) end-effectors (see photos).

Re; the Tek mechanical diagram, it turns out that there is a problem in the Tektronix drawing, one of the pad rows distance from the index is mis-labeled.  The engineers today apparently have had no technical draftsmen training. My high-school teacher would have given these guys 'Fs' for those drawings...multiple indexs, cascading measurements, no call-outs; just random stuff.   Thanks again to TiN, 'his' dwg he scrounged up for me provided enough info for me to hack together a footprint, which I think should-be-ok.

Later,

bench_knob

[nctnico]

You can also use the P6817 flying lead sets.  I came across a P6860 probe which a mictor adapter so I created a mictor-to-2.54mm header adapter with which I can use the flying lead sets from my P6817 probes.

[TiN]

I wish I had those 6860 for 30$ when I was looking for probes, lol.
I'm using 196-3472-00 (8-channel differential/SE leadset) most of times, it's really handy thingy. Good enough for 100MHz.
And sometimes 6860-to-mictor adapter (expensive original one).

[Sailor]

TiN, the P6860 probes are still available

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tektronix-Tek-P6860-34-channel-high-density-compression-probe-/290798265849?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b4ed65f9

I put in an offer of $30 each for four sets and it was accepted immediately - you could try going lower, who knows what you might be able to score them for... They were shipped out of California, with fairly minimal postage, although they took a couple of weeks to arrive. But not nearly as long as that *#&#!$ TLA715, which I think still hasn't left the U.S.

[TiN]

Aaaa, aaaportal Had good experience with them before. Let's see, put an offer for 2
Thanks.

[nctnico]

It seems he has a lot. Already 51 sold and still more to go. Do these comes with the elastomer contacts and holders or is it just the probe as pictured?

[Sailor]

Out of the 8 'probe ends', two are missing the elastomer holder (i.e. you are looking directly at the gold pads on the edge of the ceramic), and on one of those two the ceramic is cracked (broken off) at one end so that a couple of the contacts are missing. Of the remaining six, two are missing a couple of the elastomer inserts. All up, it's a little disappointing, but that's the risk you run... However, I will only have 68 channels on my 715, and it is supposed to have probes with it, so I'll be ok for the moment.

Exactly what I do from here on will depend on Tektronix... $$$

[bench_knob]

Quote from: nctnico on Yesterday at 11:39:08 PM>Quote>Quote

It seems he has a lot. Already 51 sold and still more to go. Do these comes with the elastomer contacts and holders or is it just the probe as pictured?

NctNico, Sailor, & TiN,  Hmmm..I bought my pods from a different eBay vendor. However, I did originally offer AAPortal $25 ea for a pair of his pods to which he counter offered (perhaps he made a mistake?) $36 + 2x shipping?? I wrote him and asked him why he raised his price two bucks, to which I received no answer, and also his eBay advertisement was increased by a few bucks** which I now see has returned back to the original sale price.  I'd still give it a shot in any case. I'm thinking I'll buy at least another one. I'd like to hack it open to see what's inside, maybe its a simple matter of cutting off or de-soldering the end-effector, to be able solder the wires onto a perfboard with 2,54mm IDC 2x headers, to fab-up a quick-n-dirty interface, while my PCBs are taking their time journey to fruition...

Re; the holders? Only the vendor can answer that definitively, however, in the photo I see on his eBay page, I believe that I can see black elastomer holders in place. If the holder wasn't present, one could only see the ceramic/gold hybrid possibly sans the gold pads, however if one looks closely at photo, one can see two sightly offset parallel white strips (elastomer) with a 'center' perpendicular division on each row. That is consistent with an elastomer-holder holding elastomer strips in place. However the probe-heads are missing their nut-bars.  See my attached example close-up photos below.


bench_knob
**'bucks' - US Small denomination paper money in the mid to late 1800s featured an American Indian characature, while young Indian warriors, (14yro ~ 20s) were known by the American Caucasion populace as being 'bucks'. Over the ensuing generations the phrase has become synonomous with the meaning and value of "Dollars".

[bench_knob]

Quote from: Sailor on Today at 09:12:33 AM>Quote>

Out of the 8 'probe ends', two are missing the elastomer holder (i.e. you are looking directly at the gold pads on the edge of the ceramic), and on one of those two the ceramic is cracked (broken off) at one end so that a couple of the contacts are missing. Of the remaining six, two are missing a couple of the elastomer inserts. All up, it's a little disappointing, but that's the risk you run... However, I will only have 68 channels on my 715, and it is supposed to have probes with it, so I'll be ok for the moment.

Exactly what I do from here on will depend on Tektronix... $$$

Sailor,

You might consider writing the vendor, it is an understood tradition and standard eBay practice, that that which is photographed, seeable in the advertisement photo is what ya get!!!  The nut-bars, while its nice to have the vendor include those items, they are not featured in the photo that I saw, however, the probe-heads (or effectors as I name the items) are depicted WITH a black elastomer holder + two elastomer strips.  If you didn't receive that, then the vendor is misrepresenting his product in my opinion. A deal is a deal, he needs to honor his deal. Some might say, 'but bench_knob, its such a good deal at $34 ea', yeah its true, but, its not what was offered.  In any case, I'd make a comment to that effect in the eBay 'feedback' section. 

bench_knob

[bench_knob]

Here is the P6860 probe-head library I made. I've double checked it for accuracy against several different mechanical drawings (one drawing was provided by TiN ), the lib should be ok.
 
 There are basic details included in the part description, however, it is encumbent upon the user of the library to reference and to review the Tektronix P6860 manual for all of the details. But the basic one to remember is that that the pads need be GOLD plated.
 
 The library was created in CadSoft's EAGLE version 5.50. It'll likely work with any subsequent version, but has not been tested with any except v5.50.
 
 bench_knob
 

[bench_knob]

Last week I purchased one P6860 from AAAPortal. It is a sacreficial cable, in that I planned to open the probe-heads to gander at what is inside them. As Sailor stated, his probes were of so-so quality. The photo that AAAPortal posted in his adv (the only thing we as buyers can see about the product) does not match what I received.

One of the probe-heads was missing the elastomer-strip, while the other was present.  In opening the probe-heads, there is a distinctive line of 'grunge' which one can see in the high-frequency hybrid board photo, just below the input resistor dividers. I found the 'grunge' difficult to remove. At first I tried using denatured alcohol + scrubbing, and then switched to acetone using a short stiff bristle PCB brush and after serious scrubbing, a bit of it was removed.

Ok, well...the reason I bought the cable (I now own five P6860s & 1x TLA7AA4 module)...determine if there is a way to hack together a simple mechanical interface for low-speed, flying lead operation, at least until I have fabricated a PCB to flying-lead or Mictor board PCB adapters using my P6860 Eagle PCB 'component' for the other four P6860 probes I bought from a different vendor.

In the opening process, I took a few photos and a couple of rough measurements, and also I created a mechanical drawing, for folks persual.

bench_knob

[bench_knob]

Fellow TLA scopesters, freinds,

FYI....

Four used compression probes for TLA7AAx (P6860), with all the accessories (grey & black elastomer holders) & nut-bars for $130 (+13 shpg), the four probes are each shipped in very nice metal zippered charcol anti-static bags. I bought a set of these, they were quality undamaged cables. I am very happy with the cables I received.  They are again available.

eBay: 131212953795

bench knob
edt: fix fu's

[martinr33]

Did you ever complete the Mictor 38 connector layout?

I'm setting up to do one, so any head start would be great.

[Mechatrommer]

hi i know i'm a bit late, but just want to add value to the thread rather than making another spanking new but valueless one. currently trying to make breakout/adapter pad for the P6860.. just to let anyone know who will come in the future that from http://w140.com/tek_p6800-series_manual.pdf page 2-28 (page 72 in my pdf reader) the dimensions provided are closely matched what TiN provided in reply #1 except most of the dimensions are given as absolute position from origin (the big lock hole on the right) so it can be used as reference as well (attached), fwiw...

[velik_kazakov]

Hi,
want to ask if someone try to solder wires direct to the probe head. I have one probe with elastomer holder and one w/o (both are P6860). Think to disassembly one w/o elastomer holder and to solder some pcb with flying leads on it.

[nctnico]

I advise against soldering to the probe head. These are ceramic boards and the traces come off very easely.

[velik_kazakov]

I advise against soldering to the probe head. These are ceramic boards and the traces come off very easely.

I will try to find a elastomer holder, but if I can't I will sacrifice one probe to solder direct to the ceramic board after I solder whole head to PCB to be well fixed.

[mbalmer]

Does anyone have a completed board design for one of these adapters?

[Mechatrommer]

this i made a while ago, still untested since they are laying around somewhere right now, you can skip the silkscreen if you want, and you can view gvp file with Gerbv 2.5.0. fwiw.