EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: MikeH on April 20, 2016, 09:31:49 pm
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I've been shopping around for a new scope, and it looks like Keysight is willing to let me trade in my old Rigol 1052E for 30% off a new Keysight scope. (Unfortunately, it's not combinable with the free signal analyzer upgrade promotion). Is it a good deal? How much below MSRP is typically quoted for Keysight scopes?
For most of my applications I could probably get by with a Riglol'ed Rigol DS1054z, but I hate the noisy Rigol fans and the Keysights are pretty quiet.
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I'm assuming you don't want to deal with modding the fan on the DS1054z ? I silenced mine at the price of 10C higher temps and loss of warranty. Though you can avoid the loss of warranty.
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I'm assuming you don't want to deal with modding the fan on the DS1054z ? I silenced mine at the price of 10C higher temps and loss of warranty. Though you can avoid the loss of warranty.
Further cost:
Instrument will now not likely meet specs.
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I'm assuming you don't want to deal with modding the fan on the DS1054z ? I silenced mine at the price of 10C higher temps and loss of warranty. Though you can avoid the loss of warranty.
Further cost:
Instrument will now not likely meet specs.
Not sure exactly what specs you're referring to, but for my specific case it likely will since I'm running it in a very friendly environment to begin with. It's spec'ed for a 50C operating temperature so even with 10+C over default I'm doing much better than the specs allow for or even when compared to running it inside a confined space / rack with lots of equipment.
So depending on how you intend to use it it might be totally fine.
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I'm assuming you don't want to deal with modding the fan on the DS1054z ? I silenced mine at the price of 10C higher temps and loss of warranty. Though you can avoid the loss of warranty.
Further cost:
Instrument will now not likely meet specs.
Not sure exactly what specs you're referring to, but for my specific case it likely will since I'm running it in a very friendly environment to begin with. It's spec'ed for a 50C operating temperature so even with 10+C over default I'm doing much better than the specs allow for or even when compared to running it inside a confined space / rack with lots of equipment.
So depending on how you intend to use it it might be totally fine.
Sure but how can you be sure?
Fan substitution should at least match the manufacturer's selected fan performance and if possible better it.
Premature degradation of the electrolytic caps from elevated temps is another reason why fan substitution should not be rushed into or taken lightly.
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...fan substitution should not be rushed into or taken lightly.
then please design a proper cooling solution in the factory already. Including rubber fan mounts, high quality, temperature controlled fans, etc. Yes, that applies to Siglent as well :P
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I might end up modding the fan, there's no questions the 1054z is great value. On the other hand, there are a few annoyances like the fan noise, the sluggish controls, and small text. The Keysight is probably overkill for my needs, but if it's the last scope I'll ever have to buy, I might be OK with that.
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Trust me: don't buy a 'last scope ever'. Every oscilloscope is outdated in 5 years!
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...fan substitution should not be rushed into or taken lightly.
then please design a proper cooling solution in the factory already. Including rubber fan mounts, high quality, temperature controlled fans, etc. Yes, that applies to Siglent as well :P
I believe they do a good job at that, the temperatures in Shenzhen see to that.
None of the fans in my various demos could be described as objectionable and to date in NZ I've not had any reported as rumbling or whatever.
Does any TE have rubber mount fans?
Who makes these fans?
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Trust me: don't buy a 'last scope ever'. Every oscilloscope is outdated in 5 years!
Not true.
People still use 40 years old oscilloscopes. I bet 90% of the hobbyists here would do just fine with the humble 1052E.
Sure, new models will come and they may have new features, better value etc. But that doesn't make present models outdated.
OTOH, we will buy new oscilloscopes when the itch becomes unbearable (been there done that) ;D
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...fan substitution should not be rushed into or taken lightly.
then please design a proper cooling solution in the factory already. Including rubber fan mounts, high quality, temperature controlled fans, etc. Yes, that applies to Siglent as well :P
I believe they do a good job at that, the temperatures in Shenzhen see to that.
None of the fans in my various demos could be described as objectionable and to date in NZ I've not had any reported as rumbling or whatever.
Does any TE have rubber mount fans?
Who makes these fans?
IIRC Hameg uses rubber fan mounts. But I think it largely depends on how a piece of equipment is constructed whether any inbalance of a fan causes the case to resonate. In my GDS2000E scope rubber fan mounts made the difference between 'annoyingly noisy' to 'just as quiet as my Agilent scope'.
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I've been shopping around for a new scope, and it looks like Keysight is willing to let me trade in my old Rigol 1052E for 30% off a new Keysight scope. (Unfortunately, it's not combinable with the free signal analyzer upgrade promotion). Is it a good deal?
30% off for a simple 1052E is a very good deal from Keysight in my opinion, however I guess it's off RRP and as you say you can't combine it with other promos.
But since its based on RRP I'd check the current street price for the Keysight scope you're looking into, and do a bit of research as to how much you can get for your DS1052E is you sold it individually, and then do the math.
How much below MSRP is typically quoted for Keysight scopes?
That depends who asks, the mood of the sales droid you're talking too, and how good your negotiation skills are. ;)
For most of my applications I could probably get by with a Riglol'ed Rigol DS1054z, but I hate the noisy Rigol fans and the Keysights are pretty quiet.
If fan noise is your only problem with the DS1052E then replacing the scope just for that would be a waste of money when you could just replace the fan with a better one for a few bucks.
If you go the new scope route however then I'd also ask R&S if they can match Keysight's offer for the HMO, which are great scopes that are absolutely quiet and certainly worth considering.
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Using rubber mount bush like these is also common to reduce the noise from the vibration of the fan.
Some of them are tough rubber and some of them are too soft, so it might be good to buy few different companies.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003Q5GI2U/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3/188-5233384-1992064?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=0DB1V9W31Q2TFXNQR85G&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687542&pf_rd_i=B003JBOBOI (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003Q5GI2U/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3/188-5233384-1992064?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=0DB1V9W31Q2TFXNQR85G&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687542&pf_rd_i=B003JBOBOI)
Ultimately changing the fan with liquid fluid bearings which has about the same ampere normally works the best for me.
Searching the google with "liquid fluid fan" normally leads you to right place.
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This is the popular one in Japan for the rubber mount bush.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/AINEX-MA023A-%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%B3%E5%9B%BA%E5%AE%9A%E7%94%A8-%E9%98%B2%E6%8C%AF%E3%82%B4%E3%83%A0%E3%83%96%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5/dp/B000BL9RPC (http://www.amazon.co.jp/AINEX-MA023A-%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%B3%E5%9B%BA%E5%AE%9A%E7%94%A8-%E9%98%B2%E6%8C%AF%E3%82%B4%E3%83%A0%E3%83%96%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5/dp/B000BL9RPC)
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I'm assuming you don't want to deal with modding the fan on the DS1054z ? I silenced mine at the price of 10C higher temps and loss of warranty. Though you can avoid the loss of warranty.
A lot of people complain about the fan noise with the DS1054Z but it's never bothered me.
Perhaps it's not so bad on the newer models. When did you get yours?
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I actually do get a lot of fan noise at work from all the equipment around, and it doesn't really bother me. I think it's when it's the only fan in the room that it gets annoying.
On the other hand, maybe I should buy the expensive stuff now before I get married :-DMM