Products > Test Equipment
Big Clive's "Trashy" meter, unboxed ( Duratool D03047 multimeter )
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Someone:

--- Quote from: joeqsmith on April 26, 2023, 01:07:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on April 26, 2023, 07:43:45 am ---Every mains socket outlet is CAT III, ...
--- End quote ---
Provide a reference in any of the IEC standards from any country that states that.
--- End quote ---
I quoted the AS61010 standard in the other thread that this has split into. Not having any of the international examples to hand at the moment that will do, and you're free to provide quotes from others.


--- Quote from: Someone on April 26, 2023, 11:03:53 am ---61010 measurement categories are really simple:
"CAT III is for measurements performed in the building installation"
--- End quote ---
Good luck trying to argue that a mains socket affixed to the wall is something other than the building installation. But we have several people trying to be "clever" and say either side of the socket outlet should be treated the same, when the standard says that is the point of distinction.
Someone:

--- Quote from: Black Phoenix on April 26, 2023, 01:40:00 pm ---Well the way I was teached some years ago regarding the CAT rankings were the following:

CAT l - Electronics (<= 48V);
CAT II - Single Phase outlets and connected equipments;
CAT III - Three-phase distribution and connected equipments;
CAT lV - Three-phase at utility connection (meter head), any outdoor conductors (buried or not).
--- End quote ---
Well, you were taught incorrectly. Phase count is irrelevant, and CAT I is far more specific than a voltage limit.
EEVblog:

--- Quote from: Fungus on April 26, 2023, 12:07:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on April 26, 2023, 11:13:18 am ---FFS, the division between the categories has to be placed somewhere.

--- End quote ---
Either that or ... eliminated?
Just switch everything to "CAT III", job done.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I don't know why anyone would be pedantic over the exact delineation. If you are working on anything mains related, get at least a certified 600V CAT III meter. It's not like they are expensive. The Fluke 101/113, almost any Brymen, and there are plenty of other options in higher feature capability meters.
Industrial plant techs should consider using a 600V CAT IV meter.
If you are using a CAT II only meter then you don't really care about mains or CAT rating, it's just a multimeter.
David Aurora:

--- Quote from: joeqsmith on April 26, 2023, 01:07:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on April 26, 2023, 07:43:45 am ---Every mains socket outlet is CAT III, ...

--- End quote ---

Provide a reference in any of the IEC standards from any country that states that. 


--- Quote from: David Aurora on April 26, 2023, 02:20:41 am ---Have you got any plans to torture test any bench meters? Unless I missed it I haven't seen any so far from you. I'd be really curious to see what you find

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While I understand the responses about the bench meters and CAT ratings, I assume you are asking from the standpoint of how robust they are and not about safety.   It's certainly a valid thought.   My first Fluke was the perfect example of how not to design a robust meter.  I damaged it more than once with very low level transients.  When looking for something to replace it, I spoke with a friend who worked at  HP.   They use GDTs and other clamps on the front end to protect the sensitive circuits.  I bought two different ones new and never looked back.   In all the years I have owned the HP34401A, the only time it was damaged was during a lightning storm where we took a hit.   I made a video of my repairs.

I haven't looked at new bench meters in a long time.  The few I have would have cost far more than the Gossen Ultra I looked at.   I have an old Fluke 8506 that would have been over $10k new, back when it was made.   You could spend $100k in a shootout.   The high costs would mean turning to advertising and other funding.   This isn't something I have considered. 

When running these benchmarks, one of the common feedbacks received was from people who saw no value in the testing and see it as a waste of money.  I appreciate that they were concerned about my personal finances but you can imagine the whining when you start to burn down more than someone makes in a year in one video.   :-DD

--- End quote ---

Exactly, my question was kind of a sidenote (I probably should have just PM'd it in retrospect). I figured the insane cost was probably one of the main stumbling blocks, haha. But yeah- my curiosity was definitely about how the input stages of various models might cope when things go wrong. Which really circles back to the cost thing as well- for the price of some of those things it'd be great to know how well protected (or not) various models are.
David Aurora:

--- Quote from: IanB on April 26, 2023, 04:13:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: David Aurora on April 26, 2023, 08:30:12 am ---
--- Quote from: IanB on April 26, 2023, 04:08:37 am ---Are bench meters supposed to be robust? In my mind I think of them as sensitive, delicate, precision instruments, things to be treated with care. Would you expect an expensive Mitutoyo micrometer to survive being chucked in a tool drawer?

--- End quote ---

Are you talking about drop tests etc? I'm talking about surges/spikes/overload conditions/etc

--- End quote ---

I'm making an analogy. A sensitive mechanical instrument should be treated with mechanical care. Similarly, a sensitive electrical instrument should be treated with electrical care.

--- End quote ---

You're kind of making the same mistaken assumption as the OP here that everything is always controllable- it's not. Devices fail while under test, surges happen, test points can be mislabeled, probing mistakes happen, etc.
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