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| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: tautech on December 19, 2022, 09:02:49 pm --- --- Quote from: tggzzz on December 19, 2022, 08:47:01 pm ---And for beginners multiple instruments increases the size of the learning curve. --- End quote --- Certainly and another argument for having multiple functionality in a single box. This too requires a learning curve but the wise novice expects this and will purchase equipment with multiple capabilities for them to grow into as their skills and understanding develops. --- End quote --- Not really. The same is true however many enclosures are on the bench. --- Quote ---We regularly have customers at all levels of experience selecting a single piece of equipment with LA, FRA, SA, Protocol analyser, Logger, FG and remote capture instrument capabilities and NOT expecting to fully understand the instrument until their skill develops. Do you imply they are making foolhardy decisions ? --- End quote --- I wouldn't be so foolhardy as to assume my experiences match your commercial experiences, nor those of your clients. Nonetheless, the technical points I (and others) make are valid. There's no need to get so touchy about valid differences of opinion! |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: tautech on December 19, 2022, 07:51:56 pm ---Those that haven't experienced modern equipment are excused for their ignorance as no longer is a scope just a scope but a LA, FRA, SA, Protocol analyser, Logger, FG and a remote capture instrument and all in a single small box at a single new instrument cost. One investment = most of an analysis lab. --- End quote --- No. Not by a long shot. Most of the extra features are handy but cover a limited use case. When I need to do network analysis, I use my network analyser (from 10Hz) because it has all the features that FRA on an oscilloscope lacks. For starters the ability to do an offset calibration. Function generator ditto; you'll end up needing a real function generator quickly and often the extra cost for enabling a function generator on a DSO just isn't worth the money at all. |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on December 19, 2022, 09:08:04 pm --- --- Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2022, 08:23:44 pm ---I prefer single purpose standalone instruments in almost every case. I have yet to be impressed with the experience of "Swiss army knife" style test equipment, too often it tries to do everything and ends up doing nothing particularly well. --- End quote --- So a separate ohmmeter, ammeter, DC voltmeter and AC voltmeter then? :box: --- End quote --- It can be fun to push arguments beyond reasonable boundaries :) --- Quote ---I think you have to determine what the core function of the device is to see what is appropriate to package with it and what isn't. A DMM is a DC voltmeter at it's core, so it makes sense to add on current shunts, a current source and an AC converter because those other instruments as standalones would still need the DC voltmeter function. Where the CRO/DSO debate is concerned, I think the two are fundamentally different instruments at their core. The CRO is a fast chart recorder or vector display depending on the setup while a DSO is a really fast low resolution sampling voltmeter. It makes no obvious sense to 'add' something like spectrum analysis to a CRO because you'd really only be using the CRT as a display. But if you have a high-rate sampling device like a DSO, then you can do all sorts of interesting things with the data without adding any hardware and that makes perfect sense to me. --- End quote --- The proposition was to bundle AWGs, digital pattern generators, logic analysers, protocol analysers into one box, which is a little more than that. Certainly the bundled logic and protocol analysers I have used are far less capable than dedicated instruments, and are only capable of trivial measurements. But such trivial measurements are ideal for salesmen doing demos, since it would be too difficult to explain the more complex uses cases that engineers have to deal with. But on the subject of using a scope as a spectrum analyser... With an 8 bit ADC optimised for sampling rate, there will be many spurious artefacts in a non-trivial FFT spectrum that will, um, muddy the picture. I prefer to avoid spurious artefacts whenever possible, since distinguishing them from the signals can be tedious and error prone. |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on December 19, 2022, 09:08:04 pm ---So a separate ohmmeter, ammeter, DC voltmeter and AC voltmeter then? :box: I think you have to determine what the core function of the device is to see what is appropriate to package with it and what isn't. A DMM is a DC voltmeter at it's core, so it makes sense to add on current shunts, a current source and an AC converter because those other instruments as standalones would still need the DC voltmeter function. Where the CRO/DSO debate is concerned, I think the two are fundamentally different instruments at their core. The CRO is a fast chart recorder or vector display depending on the setup while a DSO is a really fast low resolution sampling voltmeter. It makes no obvious sense to 'add' something like spectrum analysis to a CRO because you'd really only be using the CRT as a display. But if you have a high-rate sampling device like a DSO, then you can do all sorts of interesting things with the data without adding any hardware and that makes perfect sense to me. --- End quote --- Obviously not everything should be broken down, a multimeter is a handy multipurpose tool. For some cases it would make sense to have dedicated more specialized instruments for some of the functions. I'm firmly in the DSO camp and it's nice to have features like spectrum analysis although in practice I rarely use it. I have no interest in function generators and logic analyzers and such in a scope though. |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: nctnico on December 19, 2022, 09:24:14 pm --- --- Quote from: tautech on December 19, 2022, 07:51:56 pm ---Those that haven't experienced modern equipment are excused for their ignorance as no longer is a scope just a scope but a LA, FRA, SA, Protocol analyser, Logger, FG and a remote capture instrument and all in a single small box at a single new instrument cost. One investment = most of an analysis lab. --- End quote --- No. Not by a long shot. The extra features are handy but cover a limited use case. When I need to do network analysis, I use my network analyser (from 10Hz) because it has all the features that FRA on an oscilloscope lacks. For starters the ability to do an offset calibration. Function generator ditto; you'll end up needing a real function generator quickly and often the extra cost for enabling a function generator on a DSO just isn't worth the money at all. --- End quote --- Precisely. But the all-in-one-box sales demo is undoubtedly seductive to the unwary. |
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