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True analog scopes

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tautech:

--- Quote from: H713 on December 22, 2022, 05:19:15 am ---Tautech does bring up a solid point, and what is IMO the MAIN reason to use a DSO over an analog scope, and that's the ability to capture single-shot events.
--- End quote ---
Correction, to capture any event !

Greybeards just can't get their heads around this as they already know it all  ::) and never need to put a waveform capture in front of a mentor or here on the forum to seek advice/explanation of what they see.
All the skill and imagination of someone less experienced will never solve something they don't understand until that skill and imagination is gained from experience.
Which raise an old and valid question, which came first the chicken or the egg ?


--- Quote ---If you're dealing with anything that is pulsed, an analog scope is a PITA. Pulsed systems are all over the place now - power supply startup behavior, communication that happens in response to a user input (button push, etc).

You could use an analog storage scope. You could use a triggered scope camera. I sure wouldn't want to though...

And if you need to change the time base after taking the shot? Out of luck.
--- End quote ---
100%
What today isn't pulsed in one manner or another ?


--- Quote ---Also, let's differentiate between scopes with CRTs and analog scopes. The HP 54600 and Tek TDS380 both have CRTs, but have a lot more in common with a modern Siglent than they do with a Tek 465 or any other analog scope.
--- End quote ---
No, it's simpler than that as the main basic types of general purpose scope are just 2 types, DSO's or CRO's.
Some older CRO looking scopes are DSO's with a CRT display.

So just 2 main types, boat anchor CRO's with an analogue signal path through to the CRT display or the more capable DSO of which modern ones use LCD displays.

tautech:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 21, 2022, 08:04:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: tautech on December 21, 2022, 07:31:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 21, 2022, 10:13:21 am ---
--- Quote from: David Hess on December 21, 2022, 06:32:19 am ---The Tektronix 7104 can sweep faster than the speed of light, while at the same time being visible with a single sweep.

--- End quote ---

Oh, don't spoil tautech's assertion...


--- Quote from: tautech on December 20, 2022, 11:22:03 pm ---Which without some form of persistence is arguably of no use to anyone.

--- End quote ---

And definitely don't ask him how people with skill and imagination did and can use such equipment to make quite astounding advances.

--- End quote ---
Those that haven't yet embraced DSO's are also unaware how user focus changes once some muscle memory develops your eyes rarely leave the display as settings are displayed there rather than need to have eyeballs walk around a CRO to arrive at how it was set up.

--- End quote ---

Those that have used digitizing scopes in anger for non-trivial measurements know:

* many important settings are not shown on the display
* the pain of chasing through multilevel menu to find/access a relevant setting
* settings that are shown are often cryptic and difficult to understand, except by those familiar with the specific scope's display
--- End quote ---
Skill and imagination resolves all these issues.

alm:

--- Quote from: tautech on December 22, 2022, 07:12:08 am ---Correction, to capture any event !

--- End quote ---

For repetitive events, you just take a picture of the screen. Which as tggzzz showed is also often the fastest on a DSO if you don't have connectivity set up beforehand. This technology existed then and it's even easier now.


--- Quote from: tautech on December 22, 2022, 07:12:08 am ---What today isn't pulsed in one manner or another ?

--- End quote ---

Oscillators? Power supply ripple? Signals used in analog audio? Most kind of test signals coming from a function gen or pattern gen?

Also, many 'single-shot' events can be made repetitive (excluding destructive tests like nuclear fission tests). Drive the button input using a pulse train. Trigger the reset of a system using a function generator.

I have actually done that with a DSO just because it makes testing changes, like adding a cap, much quicker than manually resetting the test.

tautech:

--- Quote from: alm on December 22, 2022, 08:56:45 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on December 22, 2022, 07:12:08 am ---Correction, to capture any event !

--- End quote ---

For repetitive events, you just take a picture of the screen. Which as tggzzz showed is also often the fastest on a DSO if you don't have connectivity set up beforehand. This technology existed then and it's even easier now.

--- End quote ---
That's the thing with only using old equipment, you guys are missing out on so much capability now that memory is so cheap.
Not so much in the sub$1k bracket but many midrange save to internal memory if you don't have a USB stick installed. Then in menus so many seem to despise, within the File manager you can grab those captures remotely or transfer them to a later installed USB stick.

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: H713 on December 22, 2022, 05:19:15 am ---Tautech does bring up a solid point, and what is IMO the MAIN reason to use a DSO over an analog scope, and that's the ability to capture single-shot events.

If you're dealing with anything that is pulsed, an analog scope is a PITA. Pulsed systems are all over the place now - power supply startup behavior, communication that happens in response to a user input (button push, etc).

You could use an analog storage scope. You could use a triggered scope camera. I sure wouldn't want to though...

And if you need to change the time base after taking the shot? Out of luck.

--- End quote ---

Fully agreed. One-off events have always been the USP for storage scopes.

Analogue storage scopes always were a PITA, only used because there was nothing better. Early digitising storage scopes capitalised on that pain, even though they were suboptimum for other purposes.

Having said that, with analogue waveforms it is usually possible to make them repetitive. Less so with digital dignals, but you would normally use a logic analyser for those.


--- Quote ---Also, let's differentiate between scopes with CRTs and analog scopes. The HP 54600 and Tek TDS380 both have CRTs, but have a lot more in common with a modern Siglent than they do with a Tek 465 or any other analog scope.

--- End quote ---

Agreed - again.

I find it sad that people who claim to know a lot about the subject deliberately continue to make that faux pas even after it is pointed out to them.

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