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True analog scopes

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tggzzz:

--- Quote from: tautech on December 22, 2022, 07:12:08 am ---
--- Quote from: H713 on December 22, 2022, 05:19:15 am ---Also, let's differentiate between scopes with CRTs and analog scopes. The HP 54600 and Tek TDS380 both have CRTs, but have a lot more in common with a modern Siglent than they do with a Tek 465 or any other analog scope.
--- End quote ---
No, it's simpler than that as the main basic types of general purpose scope are just 2 types, DSO's or CRO's.
Some older CRO looking scopes are DSO's with a CRT display.

So just 2 main types, boat anchor CRO's with an analogue signal path through to the CRT display or the more capable DSO of which modern ones use LCD displays.

--- End quote ---

Still confusing the front-end technology with the display technology?! Remarkable and sad.

H713 is right, and IMNSHO insisting otherwise doesn't increase your credibility.

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: alm on December 22, 2022, 08:56:45 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on December 22, 2022, 07:12:08 am ---Correction, to capture any event !

--- End quote ---

For repetitive events, you just take a picture of the screen. Which as tggzzz showed is also often the fastest on a DSO if you don't have connectivity set up beforehand. This technology existed then and it's even easier now.


--- Quote from: tautech on December 22, 2022, 07:12:08 am ---What today isn't pulsed in one manner or another ?

--- End quote ---

Oscillators? Power supply ripple? Signals used in analog audio? Most kind of test signals coming from a function gen or pattern gen?

Also, many 'single-shot' events can be made repetitive (excluding destructive tests like nuclear fission tests). Drive the button input using a pulse train. Trigger the reset of a system using a function generator.

I have actually done that with a DSO just because it makes testing changes, like adding a cap, much quicker than manually resetting the test.

--- End quote ---

Spot on. Just so. Not difficult, really.

I don't think you'll get tautech to acknowledge that though. He has too much invested in believing otherwise.

(Having said that, I have had to fault-find a power-up problem that required a 6 hour off period for the problem to re-occur. To nobody's surprise a storage scope was highly beneficial in locating the source of that problem :) Right tool for the right job, and all that. )

baldurn:

--- Quote from: H713 on December 22, 2022, 05:19:15 am ---Tautech does bring up a solid point, and what is IMO the MAIN reason to use a DSO over an analog scope, and that's the ability to capture single-shot events.

--- End quote ---

I feel this statement is so very wrong. The MAIN reason to use a DSO is every reason just about. You need to find reasons the other way around: is there still any reason at all to use or own an old analog scope?

One of the reasons stated in this thread is about beginners and poor people. The thing is that beginners absolutely do not want to get stuck with an old boat anchor. In the HAM community some older people do their very best to tell every newcomer that they need that old boat anchor. Luckily they usually fail and the new guy gets something much better. When pressed, this seems to be mostly about the old guys not wanting to learn about DSO or they have experience with some very old DSO that is nothing like a modern DSO.

I take part in a small maker space community with an electronic lab. We do some teaching, usually teaching other members. We do have some old analog scopes on the floor (donated to us) but nobody knows if these things even turn on. Why would we care? We have some Rigols and I recently got an Siglent SDS1104X-E + SDG1032X for the maker space, so we could do bode plots. I am not going to teach the new guy how to operate the boat anchor and then by the way, if you want to do bode plots, or thousand other things, you also need to learn the DSO. That makes no sense at all.

About poor people, in our area I would just recommend them to use our lab for free. Of course we live in a rich country. But for the guy that survives on 1 USD/day in Africa? - he sadly probably is not going to be very concerned about scopes at all. There is a very small pool of people that have enough to have a chance for learning and needing a scope, yet can not afford even a used DSO nor get access to free options. Especially students have options to use the facility of their learning institute with no costs.

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: baldurn on December 22, 2022, 05:03:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: H713 on December 22, 2022, 05:19:15 am ---Tautech does bring up a solid point, and what is IMO the MAIN reason to use a DSO over an analog scope, and that's the ability to capture single-shot events.

--- End quote ---

I feel this statement is so very wrong. The MAIN reason to use a DSO is every reason just about. You need to find reasons the other way around: is there still any reason at all to use or own an old analog scope?

--- End quote ---

That is a standard mistake in logical thinking. Just because X implies Y, it does not mean not-X implies not-Y.

In addition, your implication that people are advising not to use digitising scopes is incorrect.

Use a tool that satisfies the requirements. Analogue and digitising scopes are equally good at many important tasks.

baldurn:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 22, 2022, 06:03:54 pm ---
That is a standard mistake in logical thinking. Just because X implies Y, it does not mean not-X implies not-Y.

--- End quote ---

I am not quite sure what you are trying to say with that. But if we must, the MAIN reason to use a DSO includes:

Single shot capture
Zooming on a captured waveform
Programable triggers of many kinds
Serial decoding
MSO
Statistics displayed on screen
FFT
Network connectivity
Programability by scripting / remote control
Much better display
Auto setup
Multiple acquisition modes
Math modes
Mask tests
Power analyses / other kinds of analyses
Bode plot

The list just continues. There is so much the analog scope can not do. Especially the analog scopes available cheaply.

On the other hand, the MAIN reason to use an analog boat anchor is:

NONE - for most of us.

Other reasons might be:

Analog scopes is the only thing I know and I do not need or wish to learn any of the new stuff
Analog scopes is what I got and I do not wish to spend any money
(Old) Analog scopes is a hoppy

And THAT explains why nobody is producing analog scopes anymore.

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