Products > Test Equipment
True analog scopes
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james_s:

--- Quote from: tautech on December 22, 2022, 07:43:25 am ---Skill and imagination resolves all these issues.

--- End quote ---

The same is true for analog scopes. I'm firmly in the DSO camp now but we got by for many years with analog scopes, only a select few were lucky enough to have access to a storage scope in the analog era. I remember writing specific code that would cause a microcontroller to do the same thing repeatedly so I could see what was going on on the scope. There are all sorts of tricks people used to get the job done. A DSO is superior now in almost every case, but for decades they did not exist and a lot of the early ones had serious shortfalls. People found ways to get the CRO to show them what they needed to see. It's understandable that people stick to what they know, learning new concepts and skills gets harder for everyone the older we get. If some new whiz bang technology replaces DSOs 40 years from now I think there's a good chance you'll be clinging to your then ancient DSO because it's what you know.
james_s:

--- Quote from: tautech on December 22, 2022, 10:01:41 am ---That's the thing with only using old equipment, you guys are missing out on so much capability now that memory is so cheap.
Not so much in the sub$1k bracket but many midrange save to internal memory if you don't have a USB stick installed. Then in menus so many seem to despise, within the File manager you can grab those captures remotely or transfer them to a later installed USB stick.

--- End quote ---

That's not new. My 25 year old DSO has an internal hard drive that can save and transfer waveforms, screenshots and other data. It was a very expensive high end instrument when new though.
BillyO:

--- Quote from: H713 on December 22, 2022, 05:19:15 am ---Tautech does bring up a solid point, and what is IMO the MAIN reason to use a DSO over an analog scope, and that's the ability to capture single-shot events.

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Well, I'm not sure this is quite true.  I and others that have posted on this thread have noted that many better CROs can do single sweep triggering.  I used to use that feature all the time and long before DSOs were ever dreamed of.  Sure the DSO alleviates the need for a camera, but the feature is not something that came about with the advent of the DSO.

Y'all need to quit using this as the main reason to have a DSO.  It's not.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: baldurn on December 22, 2022, 06:20:59 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 22, 2022, 06:03:54 pm ---
That is a standard mistake in logical thinking. Just because X implies Y, it does not mean not-X implies not-Y.

--- End quote ---

I am not quite sure what you are trying to say with that. But if we must, the MAIN reason to use a DSO includes:

--- End quote ---

Your list with my response...
Single shot capture The USP for storage scopes; agreed
Zooming on a captured waveform Analogue scopes have delayed trigger. (Some digitising scopes cannot zoom - useless!)
Programable triggers of many kinds I've found those to be good when playing around, but insufficient for normal jobs
Serial decoding Digital domain tools are much better: protocol analysers and printf(). Some digitising scopes only decode what's on the screen, which is useless
MSO Scope plus logic/protocol analyser is usually sufficient. Where not, there's a fair chance a digitising scope won't be either
Statistics displayed on screen Some analogue scopes display some stats on screen. While digitising scopes appear to have more complex stats, their accuracy in the context of the specific waveform has to be verified. Too many scope's firmware has been found to have subtle bugs
FFT 8bit ADCs are limited toys w.r.t. FFTs. 14bit is much better, and even then it would be better to use a sound card for audio or dedicated spectrum analyser for RF. Some digitising scopes only do an FFT of what's on the screen, which is useless
Network connectivity In most cases a convenient feature rather than a sigificant benefit
Programability by scripting / remote control I don't know how you can usefully script looking at an analogue waveform to find something unexpected. For digital signals use a digital domain tool:  a decent logic analyser or protocol analyser will have far superior triggering and filtering
Much better display Analogue displays are usually sufficient for analogue waveforms. For digital domain analysis, a digitising scope's screen quickly becomes a limiting factor; better to use the better triggering/filtering in a logic/protocol analyser, or offline post-processing in a computer
Auto setup Ah, the "I don't know how to work it / I don't know what I'm expecting to see" button beloved of those that like the "Tesla full self-driving (beta)" way of using an instrument :)
Multiple acquisition modes, Math modes I've never found those necessary, but provided an 8bit ADC isn't a limitation then it could be an advantage
Mask tests useful for production tests, less so for exploratory design
Power analyses / other kinds of analyses I use a DMM or the relevant special tool for those
Bode plot Severely limited by 8bit DACs, not just a simple digitising scope, can be achieved other ways


--- Quote ---The list just continues. There is so much the analog scope can not do. Especially the analog scopes available cheaply.

--- End quote ---

The cheap digitising scopes are severely limited; they look enticing, but are disappointing when you look in detail.

Your other points are strawman arguments addressed previously.


--- Quote ---And THAT explains why nobody is producing analog scopes anymore.

--- End quote ---

No. The main reason is economic: it is now far cheaper to make a new digitising scope than a new analogue scope.

Good old analogue scopes are far cheaper than decent new digitising scopes.
james_s:

--- Quote from: BillyO on December 22, 2022, 07:02:57 pm ---Y'all need to quit using this as the main reason to have a DSO.  It's not.

--- End quote ---

It's the main reason I use a DSO. Yes it's possible to do single sweep with a CRO and a camera, but that's a big pain. Doing a single shot capture on a DSO is trivial, it's the biggest advantage that the average user will see the most benefit in. They other perks they offer are nice too, but single sweep is the big one.
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