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True analog scopes

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tautech:

--- Quote from: vk6zgo on December 23, 2022, 03:20:38 am ---We called it what it was----a "amplitude/frequency response test".

Back the day, VNAs were "rare as hen's teeth" so we didn't normally have the occasion to do "phase/frequency" testing.

Do the common modern DSOs perform both of these types of test?

--- End quote ---
FRA is what it's more commonly called today and yes some modern and cheap DSO's do it surprisingly well although for some models an external stimulus is required whereas others have it inbuilt.

Have a look at rf-loop's investigations of the limits of what the little 4ch X-E's can do:
 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1x04x-e-bodeplot-ii-(sfra)-features-and-testing-(coming)/

tautech:

--- Quote from: BillyO on December 23, 2022, 04:01:04 am ---I can also do the timing and adjust the points, synchronize the carbs and prep the plugs on my '74 RD350.  Many here would be at a total loss and never be able to enjoy the feel of riding an untamed, raw twin cylinder 2-stoke bike of epic reputation.  I pity those that cannot appreciate where they, or their world, came from.

--- End quote ---
Nice bike and when they were all the rage known as real death traps for the unwary due to their raw power.
IIRC they evolved from the RD250 one or maybe both had LC versions too with even more power.
They 250 took the crown from the Suzuki GT250 X7, an air cooled twin and the first mass produced bike to do the ton. (100mph)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GT250
I had one of the last of these in black with mags and it certainly would do the ton however you always kept your eyes open for an LC Yammy and if one appeared you just nodded and let him go.

Amazed yours has points as mine being near the end of a long production run had upgraded to CDI.


Talking about general purpose scopes for engine tuning a buddy with a 13B twin rotor doorslammer drag car had issues at half track where they we losing power and traced it with a DSO as low output into one coil that at full power and boost was insufficient to keep the fires going.

Even today a DSO gets pulled out to tune max revs on any of my chainsaws that all rev out at some 11k rpm which equates to a very leisurely 183 Hz.

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: vk6zgo on December 23, 2022, 02:26:54 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 22, 2022, 09:21:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on December 22, 2022, 09:16:59 pm ---An especially useful feature of DSOs is the ability to display the waveform in a single sweep before the triggering event.

--- End quote ---

Agreed, that's something which the unlamented analogue storage scopes couldn't do.

It is less compelling with repetitive waveforms, of course.

--- End quote ---

Analog 'scopes with delay lines can display the waveform in a recurrent waveform before the trigger event, although it is seldom essential.

--- End quote ---

Yes, but not by much and only a fixed amount :)

I'll disagree about it being rarely essential. I frequently have to look at the signal integrity and phase relationships of relatively slow digital waveforms. Being able to see the leading edge of a waveform without having to have a very long delay is beneficial. Example: looking at the leading edge of a 10kHz signal with 10ns risetime.

Njk:
We're all living in an environment. Despite the obviousness, the environmental factor is not mentioned it the thread so far. I've two old portable scopes, and I'm also not going to get rid of them any time soon. The scope can operate in wide temperature range, up to -30 degree C. That's nothing exceptional for a service class equipment. It's designed for use in a place like a cold garage or a hangar. That capability is required for a task like to investigate what's wrong with welding machine, which is too big to move indoor. It's a waste of time to figure out the price for a DSO with that capability.

And by the way my shiny new Rigol DSO failed after the first month of use at the lab bench. Sure, it's just Rigol, the other brands of similar breed can never fail, but anyway

BillyO:

--- Quote from: tautech on December 23, 2022, 06:26:38 am ---Nice bike and when they were all the rage known as real death traps for the unwary due to their raw power.
IIRC they evolved from the RD250 one or maybe both had LC versions too with even more power.

--- End quote ---
The 250 and the 350 both evolved from older version.  The RD was first introduced in 1973.  The RD350 followed the R5 and the RD250 followed the DS7.  The big addition to the RD line was reed valves in teh induction.  The 1973 RD350 also got a disk brake over the 1992 R5.  The RD250 did not get the disk until 1974.

The Suzuki GT250 was a decent bike and was Suzuki's 1971 follow-up to it's legendary X6 Hustler.  The X6 had a 6-speed transmission which was really cool at the time.  The GT250 inherited this an got the front disk 3 years before the Yamaha RD250.  By 1974 Gt250 was a good match for the RD250 and could easily hang with it although the RD was a bit nicer in the twisites.  However, the Suzuki GT380 was a bit of an underpowered pig compared to the RD350 and was not even decent competition, performance wise, for it's smaller sibling (GT250).

World wide there were LC versions of both the 250 and 350 but in NA 1974 was the last year for the RD250.

Yeah, my '74 RD has points.  Even my 1976 RD400 had points.

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