Products > Test Equipment
True analog scopes
<< < (68/84) > >>
tautech:

--- Quote from: baldurn on December 26, 2022, 09:22:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: MrAl on December 26, 2022, 09:08:59 pm ---I remember years ago trying to measure the rise, slope, and fall times of switching waveforms in high power converters so i could estimate the switching losses.  It took about 15 minutes to get right and the calculation had to be done on a calculator or computer.
If the scope could measure rise and fall times that would help.  Mine does not have that function though but i see some of the upper echelon scopes have that feature.

--- End quote ---

Does not require upper echelon scope. Just a newer scope. See attached screenshot of what my humble little entry level scope can do.

--- End quote ---
Yeah but they are just measurements and sure you can use/apply them for the measurement MrAl was trying to do but in you 2kX+ the PA feature is a far better solution however for best accuracy all/any probes need be de-skew'ed.
Trouble is to complete the full range of PA measurements differential and current probes are required but at least with your 'newer scope' within PA you have connection guides for each type of PA measurement.
mag_therm:
My reply #39 was perhaps a little sarcastic, but that was why I think DSO are not well enough developed yet, still not easy to set up and use, and settings are not persistent and further, not easily accessible or readable.
Also users who rely on capturing a file from equipment to take  back to office, have lost the ability to quickly visualize a problem.

Imagine a 5000 kW inverter that is intermittently tripping at full power.
So we need to run  it at full power with scope probes on it. Shut down, safety rules, blah-blah, change probe position, reset scope, restart
... over and over to find where the problem might be.
It might take 4 to 8 persons, engineers, electricians  mill operators, safety man  etc 4 to 24 hours or 40 hours to do all this.
Then consider what to do with, and the cost of, wasted product. Then consider the down time, loss of production per hour if this unit is mission critical.

When DSO came into use, I saw a step: that it can take the electrician or electronics technician half an hour or more to get usable traces from a basic DSO. Do a setting change to home in on a problem... more delays.  Everybody else standing around and waiting, line shut down.
That was not only anecdote, I saw it as trend in many countries.
And I could compare that to times when we had the old type scopes and recorders which were faster and easier to use.
mwb1100:

--- Quote from: mag_therm on December 27, 2022, 12:22:04 am ---When DSO came into use, I saw a step: that it can take the electrician or electronics technician half an hour or more to get usable traces from a basic DSO. Do a setting change to home in on a problem... more delays.  Everybody else standing around and waiting, line shut down.
That was not only anecdote, I saw it as trend in many countries.
And I could compare that to times when we had the old type scopes and recorders which were faster and easier to use.

--- End quote ---

This sounds like a technician who is not very well trained or experienced with the test equipment.  Would a similarly untrained technician be able to get results quicker with an analog scope?
mag_therm:

--- Quote from: mwb1100 on December 27, 2022, 01:05:24 am ---

This sounds like a technician who is not very well trained or experienced with the test equipment.  Would a similarly untrained technician be able to get results quicker with an analog scope?

--- End quote ---
That is an interesting question, and I don't think easy to find out the answer.
That is because new starters in electronics will usually not be exposed to old tech.

I read the aircraft pilots forums where all the present incidents/accidents are discussed.

One of the near disasters was the Qantas flight out of Singapore where an oil pipe in engine broke,
in an early model A380. nearly leading to disaster.
On the flight deck were extra pilots, trained in the management systems.
However they, even collectively,  could not identify key issues, and were searching ( I call "pecking" ) through menus and following procedures,
until fortunately, the aircraft landed safely under manual control.
I may have it a bit wrong, but the official findings are interesting.

We also have stay focussed on the fact that high value engineered stuff stays current for 25 years or more.
That is aircraft, military, space, large industrial , electric power etc.

My opinion is that the underlying tech on the present range of ordinary DSO is following best practice, but the HMI, ergonomics, "intuitiveness" is poor.
tautech:

--- Quote from: mag_therm on December 27, 2022, 12:22:04 am ---My reply #39 was perhaps a little sarcastic, but that was why I think DSO are not well enough developed yet, still not easy to set up and use, and settings are not persistent and further, not easily accessible or readable.
Also users who rely on capturing a file from equipment to take  back to office, have lost the ability to quickly visualize a problem.

--- End quote ---
Consider also the scope novice encountering a waveform they need consult a mentor to understand what they see/have captured.....this is the real power of a DSO that experienced engineers seem to always fail to see.  :-//


--- Quote from: mag_therm on December 27, 2022, 01:38:03 am ---
--- Quote from: mwb1100 on December 27, 2022, 01:05:24 am ---This sounds like a technician who is not very well trained or experienced with the test equipment.  Would a similarly untrained technician be able to get results quicker with an analog scope?

--- End quote ---
My opinion is that the underlying tech on the present range of ordinary DSO is following best practice, but the HMI, ergonomics, "intuitiveness" is poor.

--- End quote ---
Nothing new, all models of scopes have always offered a different UI presenting just another challenge for the user to learn.
Really the modern DSO is set out on a logical manner with most commonly used features in the top level of menus.
The only difference is one must train oneself to understand the simple logic of where everything is.....press a channel button and everything relating to the channel input is there, coupling, 0V pos, invert, input attenuation and so on.
Greybeards go on as if this basic stuff is from some other planet.  :-//
Navigation
Message Index
Next page
Previous page
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...

Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod