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| baldurn:
--- Quote from: james_s on December 28, 2022, 01:36:59 am ---Ah the old "you're holding it wrong" argument that Apple used several years back. --- End quote --- No the old "you are wrong". You claimed certain things that are plain wrong, that is not "you are holding it wrong". There are in fact physical controls for some of the stuff that was claimed only to have touch screen controls and that means the car is exactly the same as any other car in that respect. The _only_ driving related task without physical controls are the wiper speed setting (but wiper activation has a physical control). For the record I think that should have had a physical control as well, but it is not any big deal. Usually the auto setting works. Stuff like adjusting the heat or the radio (spotify etc), those things are _not_ driving tasks. Feel free to pull over if you are unable to control that in an unfamiliar car. These things can be plenty complicated to control in any unfamiliar car and yes you do look at the radio while tuning even if it has physical controls. You control these things while not too busy with traffic. You are especially NOT able to control all these things in an unfamiliar car by feel alone without looking! I also own a VW which is my wife's daily driver. She wouldn't know how to change headlight mode because that is done with a knob she _never_ touches. Some people do not care very much about learning about every single feature of the devices they operate (I fear we might have some in this thread). Also to turn on the fog lights, that knob has to be pulled out, something you would never guess without reading the manual. Luckily we do not have to turn off our headlights when entering ferries in this part of the world (we have a headlights always on rule even during daytime). |
| JPortici:
--- Quote from: james_s on December 28, 2022, 01:36:59 am ---Whatever the case the touchscreen is useless, there is no way to safely use it while driving so it should not even be able to do anything that you need to do while driving. The only reason not to have physical controls on the dash is cost, they are superior in every way from a functional and ergonomic sense. It's also weird to have even critical stuff like the speedometer off to the side instead of directly ahead of the driver, but again it's cheap, and makes it much cheaper to put the steering wheel on the other side for example with minimal changes to the dash. It's clever in that respect, they need to cut costs as much as possible to make the cars affordable and putting everything on a touchscreen vs traditional controls probably saves several thousand dollars, but from a usability standpoint it sucks. --- End quote --- The real problem is that too much functionality goes through the screen, even some critical functions that one would expect to have a button for, such as opening the trunk/frunk (charging port too? i honestly don't remember), and the screen is not really made to be replaced. We were working with Model 3s last year. One mechanic managed to break the display while installing a rollbar. They ordered a new screen, which wasn't installed perfectly aligned to the 10th of millimiter and the video connector broke inside the screen, 3k euro down the toilet already. The second screen was installed with even more care because it was taken from a working car. It worked. But then in order to use the car you had to "update the firmware", which you have to do every time you remove or add a component which has an ECU in it, it doesn't matter if safety related or not. Fair enough, i guess, you have to align ECUs, but we usually have more sane architectures like in VAG vehichles, you connect to the gateway and add/remove the ECU from the installation list. 10 minutes max from when you take the tool to when you put it away. Instead a full firmware download, install, verify and reboot is required, which is very prone to fail because it's downloaded through the mobile connection in the car, or at least the tesla representative couldn't download it though the ethernet port, and require you to push buttons on the screen at time, which can really become frustrating if the screen decides it doesn't want to respond to touches because it thinks that it's in an unknown vechichle, so it could be from a stolen car. i think it took 10 hours for them to finish the update because it failed at least twice luckily for the team doing this, they had a guy from the dealership or it would have been impossible. Everything must done through an authorized pc, running an authorized network, while the car is authorized to be serviced. |
| mwb1100:
Since this thread jumped the rails long ago, I don’t feel too bad about adding an off topic remark: I’m pretty sure that a ferry’s “headlights off” rule is for when your car’s engine is turned off. They like it when your car is able to start when it’s time to debark. (for the more youthful here, older cars didn’t shut off the headlights when you turned off the ignition. I never learned why they were designed that way) |
| tautech:
--- Quote from: H713 on December 28, 2022, 02:07:59 am ---I could forgive the detentless multipurpose knob on the Siglent if it weren't for the fact that you push the knob to select. About 30% of the time, it rotates while I'm trying to select something. As for touchscreen test equipment... I've used plenty. It's better than using a mouse (usually on your pant leg!), but it is still VASTLY inferior to using a knob or switch. It's a good (almost necessary IMO) feature to have in ADDITION to a traditional knob layout for equipment that runs Windows. In general, the fewer buttons I have to push to take a measurement, the better. The more satisfying the knobs / switches are, the less likely I am to be annoyed by using them. Configuring a Tektronix 547 is very satisfying and it's rare that I will be annoyed while using one, even if I have to think a little harder to accomplish a measurement. Pushing soft buttons (that beep with every push!) on a Siglent is the opposite situation. Under most circumstances, for a given bandwidth (real bandwidth) a DSO is an objectively better and more useful instrument than an analog scope. Despite this, DSOs are far more likely to annoy me, and when possible, I gravitate towards equipment that doesn't annoy me. --- End quote --- :) After embracing touch and a mouse and the front panel UI, when recently visiting Defpom to drop some items for review we had some time in his lab looking at some of these scopes (new to him) but with the same UI and it was certainly interesting to watch how he used the UI in his own style to get the best from it. Fast it was too and just different to how I do it but the result was the same which is all that matters. Is there a right or wrong way, no only what works best for you. Still with a numeric entry box and a mouse scroll wheel kicks arse of any encoder, detented or not. :horse: Then if you must there is also full control via the webserver if it suits to have a PC on the bench or as I've done lately installing options using the webserver SCPI command page and the scope local with the options page visible to watch each option change to permanent at the execution of each license install command. Copy/Paste saves one heap of time and eliminates any chance of errors. |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: H713 on December 28, 2022, 02:07:59 am ---I could forgive the detentless multipurpose knob on the Siglent if it weren't for the fact that you push the knob to select. About 30% of the time, it rotates while I'm trying to select something. --- End quote --- Oh... yuck. That sucks. --- Quote ---As for touchscreen test equipment... I've used plenty. It's better than using a mouse (usually on your pant leg!), but it is still VASTLY inferior to using a knob or switch. It's a good (almost necessary IMO) feature to have in ADDITION to a traditional knob layout for equipment that runs Windows. --- End quote --- There has been one exception of a mouse designed to be used in the air on your lap. I liked it since it worked very well provided you were right handed. The pop-out mouse-on-a-stick was invented by HP's calculator division and used on their Omnibook 600 and 800 notebooks, which were generally 5 years ahead of everything else! --- Quote ---Under most circumstances, for a given bandwidth (real bandwidth) a DSO is an objectively better and more useful instrument than an analog scope. Despite this, DSOs are far more likely to annoy me, and when possible, I gravitate towards equipment that doesn't annoy me. --- End quote --- Yup. Plus cause puzzlement in beginners that have progressed beyond the "auto setup" button. |
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