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True analog scopes
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tggzzz:

--- Quote from: TimFox on December 28, 2022, 04:09:29 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 28, 2022, 12:32:52 am ---
--- Quote from: baldurn on December 28, 2022, 12:00:33 am ---
--- Quote from: Bud on December 27, 2022, 11:19:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on December 27, 2022, 09:40:15 pm ---. I loved the way the car drove but I absolutely hated the dashboard interface. Nearly everything is integrated into that big touchscreen, it is absolutely impossible to operate it safely without using the voice control.

--- End quote ---
A contractor came the other day and we got in his Tesla to discuss things. Radio was playing loud and I watched with amusement him pushing the screen going into menus and sub-menus to just freaking reduce the audio volume down  :-DD
Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha !!  :-DD

--- End quote ---

There is a physical volume control on the steering wheel. It can also mute. There is a physical button at the end of the left stalk to activate the wipers. The only driving related task on the touchscreen is adjusting the wiper speed, but this is always in the lower left corner and can be brought up by pressing the physical button at the end of the left stalk. Alternatively you can use voice command to adjust the wiper speed, which contrary to what some non owners claim here, actually does work.

People love to talk shit but maybe you should just know your car before driving?

--- End quote ---

RTFM is always good advice - but as we all know - too few people do it.

Wiper speed is pretty important here. On a 1 hour journey yesterday I changed mine dozens of times.

What is necessary for an averagely incompetent driver to arrange the GUI so that they can touch the wiper speed control and nothing else without taking their eyes off the road for more than a second or two?

Does ventilation - an important safety related "while driving" task - have physical controls? On that same journey I had to change it a couple of times.

If it is so easy and obvious, why did a trained Tesla salesman twice fail to change the ventilation?

--- End quote ---

One problem with RTFM for a rental car is that the owner's manual is never left in the glove box for the renter to peruse.

--- End quote ---

Yes indeed.

And even in the unlikely event a renter was prepared to RTFM, they are unlikely to have time to spend before driving away.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: baldurn on December 28, 2022, 05:15:53 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on December 28, 2022, 01:36:59 am ---Ah the old "you're holding it wrong" argument that Apple used several years back.

--- End quote ---

No the old "you are wrong". You claimed certain things that are plain wrong, that is not "you are holding it wrong". There are in fact physical controls for some of the stuff that was claimed only to have touch screen controls and that means the car is exactly the same as any other car in that respect.

--- End quote ---

You are struggling, and clutching at straws.


--- Quote ---The _only_ driving related task without physical controls are the wiper speed setting (but wiper activation has a physical control). For the record I think that should have had a physical control as well, but it is not any big deal. Usually the auto setting works.

Stuff like adjusting the heat or the radio (spotify etc), those things are _not_ driving tasks.

--- End quote ---

So the screen ventilation isn't driving related? Well, since you can trust the "full self driving (beta)" to get you safely to your destination, perhaps you don't need to look through the windscreen. (Oh. Wait a minute. You can't. And it would be illegal)


--- Quote ---Feel free to pull over if you are unable to control that in an unfamiliar car.

--- End quote ---

That would be illegal on many roads, and dangerous on many more.


--- Quote ---These things can be plenty complicated to control in any unfamiliar car and yes you do look at the radio while tuning even if it has physical controls. You control these things while not too busy with traffic. You are especially NOT able to control all these things in an unfamiliar car by feel alone without looking!

--- End quote ---

With a touchscreen you can't do it safely in cars you have owned for years.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: JPortici on December 28, 2022, 06:29:39 am ---Instead a full firmware download, install, verify and reboot is required, which is very prone to fail because it's downloaded through the mobile connection in the car, or at least the tesla representative couldn't download it though the ethernet port, and require you to push buttons on the screen at time, which can really become frustrating if the screen decides it doesn't want to respond to touches because it thinks that it's in an unknown vechichle, so it could be from a stolen car. i think it took 10 hours for them to finish the update because it failed at least twice

--- End quote ---

And after downloading you don't notice the how the "full self driving (beta)" has been updated, so that something that worked safely yesterday does not today.
wasedadoc:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 28, 2022, 11:17:11 am ---The pop-out mouse-on-a-stick was invented by HP's calculator division and used on their Omnibook 600 and 800 notebooks, which were generally 5 years ahead of everything else!

--- End quote ---
That mouse debuted on the original Omnibook, the 300.
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/3405/hp-omnibook-300/
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: wasedadoc on December 28, 2022, 11:37:44 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 28, 2022, 11:17:11 am ---The pop-out mouse-on-a-stick was invented by HP's calculator division and used on their Omnibook 600 and 800 notebooks, which were generally 5 years ahead of everything else!

--- End quote ---
That mouse debuted on the original Omnibook, the 300.
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/3405/hp-omnibook-300/

--- End quote ---

Thanks! I didn't have a 300, but did have a 600 and 800. Very useful for a 10 hour plane flight to Palo Alto, since two batteries were sufficient to allow me to play Transport Tycoon Deluxe all the way there :)
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