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| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 15, 2022, 09:24:32 am --- --- Quote from: H713 on December 15, 2022, 06:50:55 am ---I admit that my 2235 sees a whole lot less use than it used to. That said, there are some things that the classic Tek analog scopes do better than modern digital scopes. The biggest thing is that most modern digital scopes, in their quest to do everything under the sun, have become extremely complicated, and their UI is often a pain in the backside. It's great to be able to do really advanced things, but the really advanced stuff is 5% of my time using a scope, and if I just need to trace a sine wave through a 500 kHz bandwidth amplifier, the less I have to mess with things, the better. Furthermore... on an analog scope, you can immediately tell exactly how it is configured without touching it. This is not the case with digital scopes, and this is a real pain - I find that I make far more bonehead measurement errors with really modern scopes than I do with those from yesteryear. I really like my Siglent scope, and I really like the Tek scopes at work - both the TDS3054s and the new ones (I don't remember the model number) we've gotten recently. That said, I still reach for my 54622A and my Tek 2235 more often than I reach for my newer, higher-performance scopes, and this is because for a good portion of what I do, the 54622A is fast enough, and it is far less likely to annoy me than anything more recent. I actually like the TDS220 series for this reason - it's pretty usable. Also, I'm profoundly lazy. Do you seriously think that I'm going to mess around with a software utility or a USB stick every time I want to save a scope image? Unless this is going in a formal report (or has intellectual property issues) I'm going to snap a picture with my phone. Incidentally, CRTs tend to photograph really well. And finally, I don't have to put a brick of lead behind my analog scope to stop it from sliding across the bench when I try to connect a probe to it. So aside from the satisfaction of using a good analog oscilloscope (the appearance of the traces on a CRT, the tactile feel of switches, etc), the main advantage they still hold has more to do with the user interface on a lot of modern scopes. --- End quote --- All remarkably sane points that mirror my experience and opinion. My principal objection is to people that say don't consider buying an analogue scope (especially if they have financial interest in digitising scopes!). A working analogue scope is an extremely useful tool that you can learn to use quickly and easily. If it is less expensive than a new digitising scope, then there is more money available for other necessities, e.g. the right type of probe for the measurement being made. --- End quote --- You live in the past. Your advice stood and was good advice 10-15 years ago. There are very few good, still working, old CRT scopes available at affordable prices. Those being sold now are sold at "vintage" "legendary" prices. You might get lucky occasionally in some countries (USA, UK, maybe France or Germany). Those few that are in perfect condition are being kept by people like you and treasured. 300€ buys you solid, brand new (with warranty) modern digital scope that does everything needed today. Those that (by choice) like dealing with outdated technology, both in choice of instruments and things you design and repair should stick with whatever they think is appropriate.. For 300€ you cannot buy good working old CRT Tek scope, even 20 MHz one... |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on December 15, 2022, 09:59:48 am --- --- Quote from: tggzzz on December 15, 2022, 09:24:32 am --- --- Quote from: H713 on December 15, 2022, 06:50:55 am ---I admit that my 2235 sees a whole lot less use than it used to. That said, there are some things that the classic Tek analog scopes do better than modern digital scopes. The biggest thing is that most modern digital scopes, in their quest to do everything under the sun, have become extremely complicated, and their UI is often a pain in the backside. It's great to be able to do really advanced things, but the really advanced stuff is 5% of my time using a scope, and if I just need to trace a sine wave through a 500 kHz bandwidth amplifier, the less I have to mess with things, the better. Furthermore... on an analog scope, you can immediately tell exactly how it is configured without touching it. This is not the case with digital scopes, and this is a real pain - I find that I make far more bonehead measurement errors with really modern scopes than I do with those from yesteryear. I really like my Siglent scope, and I really like the Tek scopes at work - both the TDS3054s and the new ones (I don't remember the model number) we've gotten recently. That said, I still reach for my 54622A and my Tek 2235 more often than I reach for my newer, higher-performance scopes, and this is because for a good portion of what I do, the 54622A is fast enough, and it is far less likely to annoy me than anything more recent. I actually like the TDS220 series for this reason - it's pretty usable. Also, I'm profoundly lazy. Do you seriously think that I'm going to mess around with a software utility or a USB stick every time I want to save a scope image? Unless this is going in a formal report (or has intellectual property issues) I'm going to snap a picture with my phone. Incidentally, CRTs tend to photograph really well. And finally, I don't have to put a brick of lead behind my analog scope to stop it from sliding across the bench when I try to connect a probe to it. So aside from the satisfaction of using a good analog oscilloscope (the appearance of the traces on a CRT, the tactile feel of switches, etc), the main advantage they still hold has more to do with the user interface on a lot of modern scopes. --- End quote --- All remarkably sane points that mirror my experience and opinion. My principal objection is to people that say don't consider buying an analogue scope (especially if they have financial interest in digitising scopes!). A working analogue scope is an extremely useful tool that you can learn to use quickly and easily. If it is less expensive than a new digitising scope, then there is more money available for other necessities, e.g. the right type of probe for the measurement being made. --- End quote --- You live in the past. Your advice stood and was good advice 10-15 years ago. There are very few good, still working, old CRT scopes available at affordable prices. Those being sold now are sold at "vintage" "legendary" prices. You might get lucky occasionally in some countries (USA, UK, maybe France or Germany). Those few that are in perfect condition are being kept by people like you and treasured. 300€ buys you solid, brand new (with warranty) modern digital scope that does everything needed today. Those that (by choice) like dealing with outdated technology, both in choice of instruments and things you design and repair should stick with whatever they think is appropriate.. For 300€ you cannot buy good working old CRT Tek scope, even 20 MHz one... --- End quote --- Look harder; they are still around. The rule-of-thumb-price is still £$1/MHz. I can see half a dozen on fleabay/gumtree all displaying sensible traces (all in the UK), all with asking prices in the £40-80 range. Brands are Philips, Gould, Telequipment, even HP. Even a 20MHz scope is better than none, and I'd rather pay £20 than £300, since I would also have money for probes (inc HV differential) bench PSUs, bench meters etc. There are of course scopes with ridiculous asking prices. Basing an argument on ridiculous prices is as ridiculous as the prices themselves. |
| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 15, 2022, 10:24:12 am --- Look harder; they are still around. The rule-of-thumb-price is still £$1/MHz. I can see half a dozen on fleabay/gumtree all displaying sensible traces (all in the UK), all with asking prices in the £40-80 range. Brands are Philips, Gould, Telequipment, even HP. Even a 20MHz scope is better than none, and I'd rather pay £20 than £300, since I would also have money for probes (inc HV differential) bench PSUs, bench meters etc. There are of course scopes with ridiculous asking prices. Basing an argument on ridiculous prices is as ridiculous as the prices themselves. --- End quote --- Yeah all of those are shooting in the dark.. More crap than good ones. And as I said, if I buy from UK or USA, I pay shipping on a 20 kg boat anchor that comes broken from shipping, and then customs and VAT on the combined sum.... Even 20 GBP becomes 150€ for 40 year old crap in unknown state, brittle plastic and bent frame from shipping. Not really a "great deal". At the same time I can buy something brand new with warranty that works great, and is better than any of that crap... That is why I said : Tektronix 2465 in NOS state would be worth having. And would require king's ransom... I understand that you can go to local HAM swap meet and sometimes stumble on something decent for 20 quids.... And no other costs.. Great for you. In most of other countries it is not so. Unfortunately so. I wish you were right. But it is not. |
| TimFox:
To the last half-dozen posts: Owning both types of 'scope, my general rule is --When I don't know what's wrong or going on, use the analog CRO. --When I do know what's happening, but need to measure it, use the DSO. |
| mawyatt:
We had to purchase 4 Tek scopes to get two in actual working order, one literally blew up while just warming up (infamous RIFA cap). So we now have 2 beautiful Tek 2465 analog scopes that have been restored with countless hours for power supply recapping, troubleshooting, cleaning and main PCBs recapping. One required an extremely delicate ceramic hybrid input attenuator modules repair & rebuild, another required troubleshooting the defective scope cal and all required extensive cleaning & recapping. So 100s of hours invested in studying, troubleshooting and restoring each 2465 and ~$100 in replacement caps and components. Was this fun? You bet!! Would one do this if they didn't enjoy restoring these old relics, and needed a working scope right away that they could rely on for income? Probably not!! As far as analog vs digital scope discussion, the 2465s hardly ever get used and only for an occasional revisit to past, fun to play with but we never utilize them for any serious work anymore. Why? Because the modern DSO has replaced almost every measurement need we've encountered, then some we didn't even think about!! Of course one must have the skill and knowledge to use such, and they do require a "learning curve" just like any new instrument that's to be used to perfection. We've used just about every analog scope Tek has made over the past 60+ years, and a few from HP, B&K, Heathkit, Iwatsu and others, and are an old engrained analog type that wasn't fond of DSOs in our lab back before retiring, altho didn't get in the labs much then (another story). After realizing our narrow minded short-comes, we decided to acquire a DSO and "Spend the necessary time without prejudice to learn this new to us instrument". Only regret is we should have realized the benefits of these DSOs a decade earlier ??? Of course YMMY!! Best, |
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