Author Topic: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?  (Read 952 times)

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Offline RBBVNL9

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Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« on: August 03, 2020, 04:35:01 pm »
A few months ago, I invested quite a bit of money in Rohde & Schwarz equipment. The RTB2004 300MHz oscilloscope I bought from them, however, came with a faulty probe - mechanical problem with the spring in the retractable hook. Well, this can happen, I guess.

Several months later, I feel underwhelmed by the R&S service. It has been taking them ages to solve the issue. The company is mostly unresponsive to emails (or confirms receipt but then does nothing). Initially, they asked me to send the entire scope over, but I thought that is not very practical if only a probe is broken. When they eventually decided this was going to be a replacement rather than a repair, they transferred the ticket internally from one department to the other, with the second one not following up. After some reminders on my side, they then insisted I supply them with a serial number of the defective probe. I would have been happy to do so, were it not that this type of probe does not have a serial number :-| Several more steps and emails, still waiting for the replacement (it's over two months now, but apparently it's underway…)

Still planning to get some RF additional measurement equipment, and was eying some R&S instruments too, but now starting to be hesitant to buy it from them. How can I have confidence in how they deal with more critical repairs?

I informed them of my consumer care experiences but… no reaction.

What are the experiences of others with R&S service? Would be interested to know....

Best, Rudi
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2020, 06:39:03 pm »
R&S is company that traditionally gets large government and company contracts. I think they don't care or know how to deal with small customers. To clarify RTM3000 for 8000€ on special deal (18000 € retail price) is small trade for them.

So I passed on buying RTM3000 ( despite it was my preference..) and gave my money to Keysight for MSOX3104T, that wanted my "small" money...

Also I noted that while they fix bugs reliably, they do it slow and was negatively surprised how low quality firmware was on 2000/3000 series was at initial release... It is fine now (stability wise) but they still don't have basic stuff like search on UART protocols...

So, for me, they don't seem like a good company to give support for a small buyer. Keysight is much better from A brands.

Surprisingly,  you might get better support for inexpensive equipment from Rigol or Siglent than A brands other than Keysight.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2020, 06:58:59 pm »
Some probes from Keysight suck big time!

There is a whole thread about it on this forum.

The ones that come with the 1000X is garbage.
 

Online SilverSolder

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2020, 07:10:29 pm »
R&S is company that traditionally gets large government and company contracts. I think they don't care or know how to deal with small customers. To clarify RTM3000 for 8000€ on special deal (18000 € retail price) is small trade for them.

So I passed on buying RTM3000 ( despite it was my preference..) and gave my money to Keysight for MSOX3104T, that wanted my "small" money...

Also I noted that while they fix bugs reliably, they do it slow and was negatively surprised how low quality firmware was on 2000/3000 series was at initial release... It is fine now (stability wise) but they still don't have basic stuff like search on UART protocols...

So, for me, they don't seem like a good company to give support for a small buyer. Keysight is much better from A brands.

Surprisingly,  you might get better support for inexpensive equipment from Rigol or Siglent than A brands other than Keysight.

Whatever other problems the USA has,  American companies generally understand customer service.
 

Online maginnovision

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2020, 07:11:26 pm »
I haven't had any problems and they've always responded and resolved my issues. The slow part is when they need to communicate with the home team. Communication there could be quicker. I haven't dealt with them since COVID though. Lots of problems with most companies since then.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 07:13:47 pm by maginnovision »
 

Online SilverSolder

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2020, 07:15:28 pm »
I haven't had any problems and they've always responded and resolved my issues. The slow part is when they need to communicate with the home team. Communication there could be quicker. I haven't dealt with them since COVID though. Lots of problems with most companies since then.

Have you tried getting anything done at the DMV recently....     |O
3 week waiting time...
 

Offline wn1fju

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2020, 07:17:24 pm »
One of my favorite R&S stories was from many years ago when one of my R&S signal generators started flashing some "lost calibration" errors on the screen.  The problem was obviously the battery inside and I could have easily driven down to Radio Shack a few miles away and picked one up for $5.  But since the signal generator belonged to the company I worked for, I decided to order the battery from the R&S service center here in the USA, even though they wanted something exorbitant like $20 for it.  I placed my request through our company's purchasing department and in a few days I got a message from the purchasing person that she had a problem with ordering the battery from R&S.

Turns out that R&S had a policy of a $100 minimum order.  I called R&S up and they absolutely wouldn't budge.  I then wrote a very nice letter to the President of R&S in Germany explaining that I was responsible for acquiring test equipment at my company and that I certainly would take this experience into account when I was contemplating my future purchases. 

Then I drove down to Radio Shack and got the battery.

A few weeks later, I got a very nice package from R&S apologizing for the matter and promising that they were going to change their minimum order policy for small parts.  And, as you might have already guessed, enclosed was a (free) battery.

So was my experience good or bad?  You can be the judge.
 

Offline ogden

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2020, 07:36:58 pm »
It's like contacting Ford factory to solve 5$ worth of a problem in your automobile. Most likely doable, but highly ineffective. I would say that R&S support is doing good job! Did you get your scope from R&S directly? How? I rather buy from trustworthy distributor. For instance Batronix have 30 day return policy, decent enough customer service.
 

Online TimNJ

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2020, 07:42:38 pm »
I've reached out to them for one or two "applications" type questions. (i.e. Please try to help me with this measurement using your equipment.) Their response was quick, the support person was nice, but I was a little underwhelmed by the support. It was more or less, "check out the manual".  (And yes, we are a "nobody" customer with a low-end spectrum analyzer, so I guess I get it.)

Not to speak too broadly, but if you're a small company and/or use low-end equipment, most TE companies don't really care about you. For this reason, if you don't have any crazy requirements, might as well just buy Siglent or Rigol, because you're probably going to get similar "support" at the end of the day.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 08:59:22 pm by TimNJ »
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2020, 08:19:36 pm »
Did you get your scope from R&S directly? How? I rather buy from trustworthy distributor.

I bought it from a distributor. Actually, when making the purchase decision, I also asked R&S for a quote (you can do so directly from their website) but I never heard back from them. Perhaps that should have been my first warning signal about their customer care.... I recently had some interactions with Keysight and they seem to be much, much more responsive.

Anyway, for the broken probe, I first contacted the distributor, but they told me they'd have to ship the full device to R&S and advices me to contact R&S directly. So I did. Then also R&S wanted me to send over the full scope for a mechanically faulty probe...

Thanks to you and the others for replying!

 
 

Offline martinot

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2020, 08:19:51 pm »
Some probes from Keysight suck big time!

There is a whole thread about it on this forum.

The ones that come with the 1000X is garbage.

All the probes that I got with my two different 1200X-series scopes (and a third one that I have access to) has been of perfect quality.

They might had some problems some years ago with the introduction of the new probes (I read the thread in question), N2140A, but might have changed supplier, or let them fix the quality problems.

I took apart the compensation/base connection part of my N2140A probes, and they looked very differently from the ones I saw in the photos of the old thread from some years ago (I can take some photo and attach here for reference).

I bought some new Tektronix probes (hopefully genuine, see other post) as I wanted thinner cables, and also without the X1/X10 switch. I really love those, but the included Keysight N2140A probes actually feels very nice as standard included probes compared to many other scopes.

Very nice soldering work, and good build quality. Also a very nice silicon cable, even if I personally prefer the thinner and lighter cables on my Tektronix P6139B probes (but they cost new $500 each, so perhaps not comparable).

You can actually do much worse than the Keysight N2140A probes (see for example all the Siglent users complaining about the quality of their probes). I find them great as "free" with the scope probes.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 08:33:24 pm by martinot »
 
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Online maginnovision

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2020, 08:20:42 pm »
I haven't had any problems and they've always responded and resolved my issues. The slow part is when they need to communicate with the home team. Communication there could be quicker. I haven't dealt with them since COVID though. Lots of problems with most companies since then.

Have you tried getting anything done at the DMV recently....     |O
3 week waiting time...

I've been waiting almost 8 weeks now to get a title transferred. Payment was made a month ago.
 

Offline martinot

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 08:39:46 pm »
R&S is company that traditionally gets large government and company contracts. I think they don't care or know how to deal with small customers. To clarify RTM3000 for 8000€ on special deal (18000 € retail price) is small trade for them.

So I passed on buying RTM3000 ( despite it was my preference..) and gave my money to Keysight for MSOX3104T, that wanted my "small" money...

Also I noted that while they fix bugs reliably, they do it slow and was negatively surprised how low quality firmware was on 2000/3000 series was at initial release... It is fine now (stability wise) but they still don't have basic stuff like search on UART protocols...

So, for me, they don't seem like a good company to give support for a small buyer. Keysight is much better from A brands.

Surprisingly,  you might get better support for inexpensive equipment from Rigol or Siglent than A brands other than Keysight.

I can vouch for that. I had some problems (not with the scopes I bought, but with registering them on the Keysight webbsite) and sent an email to the US support mail.
The next week I got a personal phone call from Keysight Sweden asking me how it went, and if they could help me in any way with my new scopes.

Quite impressed with the personal support engagement for being a very small first time customer (buying just two scopes of their cheapest most basic series). Keysight is not without faults (whish they had better push buttons on my scopes, and a little more deep memory), but their support is really above my expectations.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 08:44:54 pm by martinot »
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2020, 08:52:27 pm »
Personally I have nothing but good service from R&S UK also professionalism even when I have not purchased anything  they have been very helpful.

The same from Rigol UK always 100% service  I must also mention Keysight UK ( not electrorent) very helpful and accommodating.

Nice to see TT slipping back into full  TT mode after populating the TEA thread for two days  :-DD

My thoughts on this if you have issues go straight back to the place you purchased it from first they should rectify this, not bleat about on a forum unless its a last resort imho
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline zitoune

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2020, 03:58:16 am »
I have a couple for R&S instruments and never had any issue with them. They have an after-sales portal named Gloris where you should register the items you own (just provide the serial number to their support team once you have created an account). In that portal, you will access all info related to after sales service like next calibration due date, service request, etc..

I live in SG and R&S have a local office here. They always reply swiftly, for support matters or even for small sales quotes. I guess one's experience highly depends on their local office - like everything else anyway.

I also had the opportunity to discuss with Scope products managers for technical questions and options. Really good communication in my opinion.

THanks.
 

Offline zitoune

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2020, 04:11:05 am »
R&S is company that traditionally gets large government and company contracts. I think they don't care or know how to deal with small customers. To clarify RTM3000 for 8000€ on special deal (18000 € retail price) is small trade for them.

So I passed on buying RTM3000 ( despite it was my preference..) and gave my money to Keysight for MSOX3104T, that wanted my "small" money...

Also I noted that while they fix bugs reliably, they do it slow and was negatively surprised how low quality firmware was on 2000/3000 series was at initial release... It is fine now (stability wise) but they still don't have basic stuff like search on UART protocols...

So, for me, they don't seem like a good company to give support for a small buyer. Keysight is much better from A brands.

Surprisingly,  you might get better support for inexpensive equipment from Rigol or Siglent than A brands other than Keysight.

On the RTM you have a search function that allows you to look for a specific pattern when decoding protocols on all the inputs (the 4 analog channels, the 16 digital channels). So it's not a serial pattern per-se. You can chose for each input the level low/high or either value. You also have the possibility to run boolean operations between the MSB and LSB of the 16 digital channels with the pattern coming from the analog channels and specific the signal width. The limitation is that you cannot look for a serial pattern (I think that's what you want).
If your defined pattern is caught it will appear at the top of the screen with an orange arrow at the exact position it occurs.

Else, the only option is to use the trigger function on a specific pattern available for any protocol decoding.

Thanks.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2020, 06:13:41 am »
R&S is company that traditionally gets large government and company contracts. I think they don't care or know how to deal with small customers. To clarify RTM3000 for 8000€ on special deal (18000 € retail price) is small trade for them.

So I passed on buying RTM3000 ( despite it was my preference..) and gave my money to Keysight for MSOX3104T, that wanted my "small" money...

Also I noted that while they fix bugs reliably, they do it slow and was negatively surprised how low quality firmware was on 2000/3000 series was at initial release... It is fine now (stability wise) but they still don't have basic stuff like search on UART protocols...

So, for me, they don't seem like a good company to give support for a small buyer. Keysight is much better from A brands.

Surprisingly,  you might get better support for inexpensive equipment from Rigol or Siglent than A brands other than Keysight.

On the RTM you have a search function that allows you to look for a specific pattern when decoding protocols on all the inputs (the 4 analog channels, the 16 digital channels). So it's not a serial pattern per-se. You can chose for each input the level low/high or either value. You also have the possibility to run boolean operations between the MSB and LSB of the 16 digital channels with the pattern coming from the analog channels and specific the signal width. The limitation is that you cannot look for a serial pattern (I think that's what you want).
If your defined pattern is caught it will appear at the top of the screen with an orange arrow at the exact position it occurs.

Else, the only option is to use the trigger function on a specific pattern available for any protocol decoding.

Thanks.

Thank you for your answer. I know about that. That is not it.  On RTM3000 you have very long memory. If you use segments, and capture, say, 500 messages, you cannot search for a message with specific data in it. You can search only for CAN, but no I2C, SPI, or UART... On GW instek, you can do it, on Keysight (that has much less memory) you can search for it...
If my only option is pattern search, maybe I don't need decoding either... I'll just decode patterns off the screen by eye, like we used to...
Or I'll just buy a scope that does the work...Like I did.
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2020, 06:42:59 am »
Personally I have nothing but good service from R&S UK also professionalism even when I have not purchased anything  they have been very helpful.

The same from Rigol UK always 100% service  I must also mention Keysight UK ( not electrorent) very helpful and accommodating.

Nice to see TT slipping back into full  TT mode after populating the TEA thread for two days  :-DD

My thoughts on this if you have issues go straight back to the place you purchased it from first they should rectify this, not bleat about on a forum unless its a last resort imho

Hmm dealing with R&S UK for me seems like dancing with an 800 lbs elephant. They are not very efficient and very bureaucratic. Very stark contrast to Keysight UK...
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2020, 07:55:07 pm »
A few months ago, I invested quite a bit of money in Rohde & Schwarz equipment. The RTB2004 300MHz oscilloscope I bought from them, however, came with a faulty probe - mechanical problem with the spring in the retractable hook. Well, this can happen, I guess.

Several months later, I feel underwhelmed by the R&S service. It has been taking them ages to solve the issue. The company is mostly unresponsive to emails (or confirms receipt but then does nothing). Initially, they asked me to send the entire scope over, but I thought that is not very practical if only a probe is broken. When they eventually decided this was going to be a replacement rather than a repair, they transferred the ticket internally from one department to the other, with the second one not following up. After some reminders on my side, they then insisted I supply them with a serial number of the defective probe. I would have been happy to do so, were it not that this type of probe does not have a serial number :-| Several more steps and emails, still waiting for the replacement (it's over two months now, but apparently it's underway…)

Still planning to get some RF additional measurement equipment, and was eying some R&S instruments too, but now starting to be hesitant to buy it from them. How can I have confidence in how they deal with more critical repairs?

I informed them of my consumer care experiences but… no reaction.

What are the experiences of others with R&S service? Would be interested to know....

Best, Rudi
Hi Rudi - sorry to hear about your troubles.  While I'm in the US, I'm happy to help light a fire on this and make sure the proper people in Europe know what's happening.  Please don't ever hesitate to reach out to me via PM (I'm not on here as much as I'd like to be, but on PMs I get an email and I always try to respond to them quickly).

I'll be in touch.

-Rich
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2020, 07:59:45 pm »
I've reached out to them for one or two "applications" type questions. (i.e. Please try to help me with this measurement using your equipment.) Their response was quick, the support person was nice, but I was a little underwhelmed by the support. It was more or less, "check out the manual".  (And yes, we are a "nobody" customer with a low-end spectrum analyzer, so I guess I get it.)

Not to speak too broadly, but if you're a small company and/or use low-end equipment, most TE companies don't really care about you. For this reason, if you don't have any crazy requirements, might as well just buy Siglent or Rigol, because you're probably going to get similar "support" at the end of the day.
Hi TimNJ - I guess I have a differing opinion (not surprising).  We want all our customers to be treated well and each one is important.  One potential issue on some of the lower-end gear is it's very new to a lot of our support folks (we haven't been in the "low cost" space for long), so there are times you'll get a canned answer like that.  But I do think it is getting better.  I'm also happy to help if I can.  Feel free to shoot me a PM if there is anything I can do.

-Rich
 

Offline ogden

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Re: Underwhelmed by R&S service - other experiences?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2020, 09:10:32 pm »
One potential issue on some of the lower-end gear is it's very new to a lot of our support folks (we haven't been in the "low cost" space for long)
Right. This is problem indeed. Hence advice for any "small" buyer of R&S equipment: do everything through "force amplifier", local representative. That obviously includes purchace of equipment as well.
 


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