EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: LeonR on June 26, 2023, 10:13:05 pm
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M43zqQp0rYM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M43zqQp0rYM)
https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut117c/ (https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut117c/)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005712613626.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005712613626.html)
A bit more expensive their standard fare. Hopefully we'll get see PCB shots soon.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap1nIzPf5b0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap1nIzPf5b0)
-
At least they are trying to copy the good ones 8)
-
Strange instrument.
I like mechanical design and ergonomy seems good. Nice large display. Nice 3xAAA power. Seems robust too. BT is nice too. Hope filter functions will work well.
60000 display and 0.3% accuracy on DCV. What is the point? My old APPA 72 has 6000 display and 0.5% and last digit is meaningless anyway. UT117C has last two digits meaningless. Difference between 0.3% and 0.5% is negligible.
Current measurement is also weak - only 6.0000 and 10.000 ranges. Not great.
Wonder what will be the real price. Now it costs 130 euro/600 PLN - I think APPA/BRYMEN/SANWA are not far away.
-
60000 display and 0.3% accuracy on DCV. What is the point?
This is more like an error in the technical specifications, the real accuracy is most likely 0.03%
I consider this particular model a real replacement for the 61E. Never liked the new 61E+.
The only thing that has not been done is a signal about incorrectly connected probes.
-
60000 display and 0.3% accuracy on DCV. What is the point?
This is more like an error in the technical specifications, the real accuracy is most likely 0.03%
Yes, that sounds plausible when even a cheap AN870 has ±(0.05% + 3).
Then again, it's not a simple typo. Also the ACV is ±(1%+30) (AN870: ±(0.3% + 3))
-
Wonder what will be the real price. Now it costs 130 euro/600 PLN - I think APPA/BRYMEN/SANWA are not far away.
There are a couple of vendors selling it for $73 USD:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805457726202.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805457726202.html)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805466430596.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805466430596.html)
-
60000 display and 0.3% accuracy on DCV. What is the point?
This is more like an error in the technical specifications, the real accuracy is most likely 0.03%
Yes, that sounds plausible when even a cheap AN870 has ±(0.05% + 3).
Then again, it's not a simple typo. Also the ACV is ±(1%+30) (AN870: ±(0.3% + 3))
Exactly. Datasheet is sensible for 0.3% DCV and 1% for ACV. It is "high resolution meter". Or maybe it has low drifts indeed and it is "high precision" in pure metrology sense :-DD
Price is then for speed, robustness, good fuses, Bluetooth and useless decimal points on screen. Very probable CAT III 600V is fulfilled also.
Did anybody checked if AN870 has ±(0.05% + 3) after thermal cycling or bit less comfortable conditions than warm desktop? I do not doubt initial accuracy, yet for this price I doubt it lasts.
-
Still, I think that 0.3% is a mistake. Watch the video.
https://m.elecfans.com/v/384643/
-
Still, I think that 0.3% is a mistake. Watch the video.
https://m.elecfans.com/v/384643/
Could be' as that certainly aint too shabby an accuracy, in regards to the 5080A cal ref.
-
Did anybody checked if AN870 has ±(0.05% + 3) after thermal cycling or bit less comfortable conditions than warm desktop? I do not doubt initial accuracy, yet for this price I doubt it lasts.
I don't know of any such test for the AN870, but there is a temperature stress test for the AN8008.
However, AN8008 only has a specified accuracy of ±(0.5% + 3) and the test (-20 and +60 °C) is well outside the specified temperature range.
So, that doesn't really answer your question.
Despite this, Joe Smith finds the results "pretty decent".
https://youtu.be/TSGLA9heboY?t=1593
-
Still, I think that 0.3% is a mistake. Watch the video.
https://m.elecfans.com/v/384643/
Continuity test is odd, the screen shows continuity but it doesn't beep yet. Seems much slower than it could be?
Voltage range was fast and accurate, low resistance was slow to stabilize (~20s).
-
Continuity test is odd, the screen shows continuity but it doesn't beep yet. Seems much slower than it could be?
Voltage range was fast and accurate, low resistance was slow to stabilize (~20s).
Received mine a few days ago. Continuity works without any flaws and is super fast. I like the meter in general. It's going to be my favorite one. Verified it against some Keithley 2000 with spot on measurements so far.
-
kloetpatra, Please, do one test. What is the frequency range of TrueRMS? It is not specified anywhere in the characteristics of ACV Bandwidth. No one in the UT117C reviews measured the frequency range of AC V and AC mV. 1 kHz, 20 kHz, 50 kHz? Or maybe 100kHz?
Does the UT117C seem to have fast 5/Sec measurements?
-
kloetpatra, Please, do one test. What is the frequency range of TrueRMS? It is not specified anywhere in the characteristics of ACV Bandwidth. No one in the UT117C reviews measured the frequency range of AC V and AC mV. 1 kHz, 20 kHz, 50 kHz? Or maybe 100kHz?
I didn't find this information either, but since the frequency measurement according to the specification only goes up to 9,999KHz, I wouldn't expect miracles (AN870: Frequency 9,999MHz!)
-
kloetpatra, Please, do one test. What is the frequency range of TrueRMS? It is not specified anywhere in the characteristics of ACV Bandwidth. No one in the UT117C reviews measured the frequency range of AC V and AC mV. 1 kHz, 20 kHz, 50 kHz? Or maybe 100kHz?
Does the UT117C seem to have fast 5/Sec measurements?
Yes, measurements update rate is 5 Hz. Bar graph update rate is 20 Hz.
BTW: User Manual (p. 20) says: AC * Frequency response: 45Hz~1000Hz
I did some frequency range tests: AC TRMS bandwith seems to be limited to 1 kHz for AC mV range and 10 kHz for AC V range. Still usable within 5% up to 1 MHz.
-
I did some frequency range tests: AC TRMS bandwith seems to be limited to 1 kHz for AC mV range and 10 kHz for AC V range. Still usable within 5% up to 1 MHz.
Can you test it on say, rectangular waveform instead of sine? 1 MHz is amazing, far beyond Keithley 2000, not mentioning UT117C!
-
1 MHz is amazing, far beyond Keithley 2000, not mentioning UT117C!
???
The posted test result at 1 MHz shows the Keithley 2000 slightly better than the UT117C: less than 2% low for the Keithley while the UT117C was 2.5% high.
The Keithley was far better at 1.5 MHz (5% low) than the UT117C (35% low).
-
1 MHz is amazing, far beyond Keithley 2000, not mentioning UT117C!
???
The posted test result at 1 MHz shows the Keithley 2000 slightly better than the UT117C: less than 2% low for the Keithley while the UT117C was 2.5% high.
The Keithley was far better at 1.5 MHz (5% low) than the UT117C (35% low).
Don't forget that this is a simple comparison of the readings of 2 multimeters, while the Keithley seems reputable enough and frequencies low enough (at the that point) to stick with kloetpatra's statement that the uni-pee is good up to 1kHz (mV) and 10kHz (V) (sine), we don't know enough about the test setup nor have a known reference to say that one meter or the other is reading high or low into the MHz...
-
kloetpatra, Thank you very much for taking measurements and building such informative graphs. Very good work. Apparently, UT117C turned out great. If suddenly you have some other comparison results with keithley 2000, for example DCmV, DCV, R, etc. I will be very grateful for the opportunity to see them.
Very good work. How do you create such charts?
-
Apologies for going off-topic...may I ask what software did you use to create these charts?
-
.3% on a 60000 count meter? That's just silly. +/-180 counts? :palm:
I guess it's really just a 2.5 digit meter with cheap lipstick.
-
.3% on a 60000 count meter? That's just silly. +/-180 counts? :palm:
I guess the advertising about a high-precision meter, as opposed to a high-accuracy meter, is correct. Unlike Siglent with their 6.5 digit meters that drift due to lack of selection and burn-in of their references :-DD
-
I guess the advertising about a high-precision meter, as opposed to a high-accuracy meter, is correct. Unlike Siglent with their 6.5 digit meters that drift due to lack of selection and burn-in of their references :-DD
Can't say much about the SDM3065X but I just checked and my SDM3055 has not drifted in 6 months. Unless, of course, my calibrators have drifted by exactly the same amount as the meter on all the various ranges. :-//
-
Presumably the UT117C is designed to compete with the Fluke 117 and the spec sheet for the Fluke:
https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-public/flk-2793260b-en-117-extended-specs-ds-w.pdf
states that it is only a 0.5%+2 count meter for DC accuracy so in that regard the Uni-T is better.
-
.3% on a 60000 count meter? That's just silly. +/-180 counts? :palm:
As they say, it's written on the fence. Reality is different.
I see that UT117C has 0.02%-0.03% accuracy.
-
As they say, it's written on the fence.
Sorry for going off topic, but I don't recognize that idiom. Is that a literal translation of an idiom from another language?
-
As they say, it's written on the fence.
Sorry for going off topic, but I don't recognize that idiom. Is that a literal translation of an idiom from another language?
I was curious too so I did some investigating. Given that the poster was from Ukraine I had Google translate "it's written on the fence" into Ukrainian: "На паркані написано".
Doing a web search for that phrase resulted in a lot of hits so it appeared that it was indeed a common expression / idiom. Translating some of those search results gave me a sense of what it meant but nothing definitive.
Finally I decided to ask Google Bard (i.e. Google's ChatGPT) for an explanation of the idiom and it responded with:
Звичайно. Український ідіом "На паркані написано" означає, що щось дуже очевидне і не потребує пояснення. Він часто використовується, щоб виразити своє розчарування з кимось, хто не розуміє чогось, що, як вам здається, очевидно. Наприклад, якщо ви говорите з кимось про важливу подію, яка недавно відбулася, а вони просять вас пояснити, що сталося, ви можете сказати: "На паркані написано!" Це означає, що інформація вже доступна, і немає необхідності пояснювати її ще раз.
Ідіом "На паркані написано" також може використовуватися в більш жартівливому ключі. Наприклад, якщо ви бачите когось, хто робить щось дурне, ви можете сказати: "На паркані написано!" Це означає, що людина повинна була знати краще, і немає потреби пояснювати їй, що вона робить неправильно.
Ідіом "На паркані написано" - це корисний спосіб висловити своє розчарування або жарт з кимось, хто не розуміє чогось, що, як вам здається, очевидно.
which translated is:
Of course. The Ukrainian idiom "It's written on the fence" means that something is very obvious and needs no explanation. It is often used to express your frustration with someone who doesn't understand something you think is obvious. For example, if you're talking to someone about an important event that happened recently, and they ask you to explain what happened, you might say, "It's written on the fence!" This means that the information is already available and there is no need to explain it again.
The idiom "It's written on the fence" can also be used in a more humorous way. For example, if you see someone doing something stupid, you might say, "It's written on the fence!" This means that the person should have known better, and there is no need to explain to them what they are doing wrong.
The idiom "It's written on the fence" is a useful way to express your frustration or joke with someone who doesn't understand something you think is obvious.
Perhaps native speakers can comment on the accuracy of this explanation.
-
.3% on a 60000 count meter? That's just silly. +/-180 counts? :palm:
As they say, it's written on the fence. Reality is different.
I see that UT117C has 0.02%-0.03% accuracy.
NO.
UT117C has 0.3% DCV accuracy. https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut117c/
It is stupid high resolution, 0.3% DCV meter. Well build, with couple of nice features like BT. Extra digit or two does not make it more accurate.
Short term accuracy and staiblity is far better than 0.3% - but same is true for any decent meter.
Possibly Uni-Trend is planning other model in same box with increased accuracy, even on "the same" hardware. Thier sweet secret however will be how they select and age references or exact tolerances and quality of components.
-
As they say, it's written on the fence.
Sorry for going off topic, but I don't recognize that idiom. Is that a literal translation of an idiom from another language?
Sorry for initiating an offtopic. The phrase “It is written on the fence” says that you can write anything without any responsibility and correspondence to reality.
There is also a vulgar definition. When hooligans write in large letters on the fence the word for the sexual organ, and behind the fence they will not find either the sexual organ or sex, even if you believe it. “***** is written on the fence, and there is ordinary firewood”
-
As they say, it's written on the fence.
Sorry for going off topic, but I don't recognize that idiom. Is that a literal translation of an idiom from another language?
I was curious too so I did some investigating. Given that the poster was from Ukraine I had Google translate "it's written on the fence" into Ukrainian: "На паркані написано".
Doing a web search for that phrase resulted in a lot of hits so it appeared that it was indeed a common expression / idiom. Translating some of those search results gave me a sense of what it meant but nothing definitive.
Finally I decided to ask Google Bard (i.e. Google's ChatGPT) for an explanation of the idiom and it responded with:
Звичайно. Український ідіом "На паркані написано" означає, що щось дуже очевидне і не потребує пояснення. Він часто використовується, щоб виразити своє розчарування з кимось, хто не розуміє чогось, що, як вам здається, очевидно. Наприклад, якщо ви говорите з кимось про важливу подію, яка недавно відбулася, а вони просять вас пояснити, що сталося, ви можете сказати: "На паркані написано!" Це означає, що інформація вже доступна, і немає необхідності пояснювати її ще раз.
Ідіом "На паркані написано" також може використовуватися в більш жартівливому ключі. Наприклад, якщо ви бачите когось, хто робить щось дурне, ви можете сказати: "На паркані написано!" Це означає, що людина повинна була знати краще, і немає потреби пояснювати їй, що вона робить неправильно.
Ідіом "На паркані написано" - це корисний спосіб висловити своє розчарування або жарт з кимось, хто не розуміє чогось, що, як вам здається, очевидно.
which translated is:
Of course. The Ukrainian idiom "It's written on the fence" means that something is very obvious and needs no explanation. It is often used to express your frustration with someone who doesn't understand something you think is obvious. For example, if you're talking to someone about an important event that happened recently, and they ask you to explain what happened, you might say, "It's written on the fence!" This means that the information is already available and there is no need to explain it again.
The idiom "It's written on the fence" can also be used in a more humorous way. For example, if you see someone doing something stupid, you might say, "It's written on the fence!" This means that the person should have known better, and there is no need to explain to them what they are doing wrong.
The idiom "It's written on the fence" is a useful way to express your frustration or joke with someone who doesn't understand something you think is obvious.
Perhaps native speakers can comment on the accuracy of this explanation.
Meaning of that phrase in this context is "I don't care what they wrote I see meter doing much better than that and that is empirical proof instead of some irrelevant writing on the paper", as in "The proof of the pudding is in the eating"...
@sonpul insists that despite published 0.3% accuracy, meter is actually performing better and that because of that performance he considers it to be in 0.03-0.02% class.
Which is not the way it works. It might be (and usually is) that some product perform much better that spec. But fact that manufacturer specifies very low accuracy of 0.3% means that they deserve right to ship meters as bad as that. It could be that they devised very fast calibration fixture that can calibrate thousands of meters an hour but has wide variability or drifts during day... Even if you guarantee only 3 sigma variation in calibration there will be some perfectly calibrated meters in a population... And some as bad as spec allows.
Or they are just reserving right to put any quality components in there, or meter has large tempco or long term drift, so even after all this it will still perform inside specification.
Best way to guarantee that you will deliver up to spec is lowering expectations...
And you never know which one you're getting.
My Metrix and Brymens are almost an order of magnitude better than specification on some ranges and at the room temp.....And if the planets align.. But I would not trust them for more than specified for serious purposes.
That being said, 0.3% is good enough for most handheld use scenarios.
-
2N3055, Totally agree with you. It makes no sense to require an accuracy of 0.03%, but it can be obtained with a high probability. Now the price for this multimeter is about $70. And if the accuracy that we see in the reviews continues, then this is a very good choice.
-
It is stupid high resolution, 0.3% DCV meter. Well build, with couple of nice features like BT. Extra digit or two does not make it more accurate.
Short term accuracy and staiblity is far better than 0.3% - but same is true for any decent meter.
That's true of course, but not everything is about accuracy. Say you are adjusting a trimmer for reading closest to zero. Or you want to see if a value is going up or down with ambient temperature. For that you need resolution, short term stability and linearity, but not accuracy. Quite a lot of measurements are like that. Matching resistors for a differential amplifier for example. Actual value doesn't matter much, as long as they are equal.
Of course more accuracy is better and it's to be proven if the short term stability is there or if the extra digits are just noise.
Possibly Uni-Trend is planning other model in same box with increased accuracy, even on "the same" hardware. Thier sweet secret however will be how they select and age references or exact tolerances and quality of components.
That would make sense to me. Could indeed be selection or just the accuracy of adjustment.
-
Can you test it on say, rectangular waveform instead of sine?
Yes, but I am not sure how well the Keithley will perform as a reference. Also I don't want to consider crest factor errors.
Don't forget that this is a simple comparison of the readings of 2 multimeters, while the Keithley seems reputable enough and frequencies low enough (at the that point) to stick with kloetpatra's statement that the uni-pee is good up to 1kHz (mV) and 10kHz (V) (sine), we don't know enough about the test setup nor have a known reference to say that one meter or the other is reading high or low into the MHz...
True! Unfortunately I do not have any calibration standard. I only have two Keithley 2000 and one calibrated Keithley 2015. The Keithleys should be in spec up to 300 kHz. As AC source (sine) I used the 2015 source output up to 20 kHz (Accuracy: ±(0.3% of setting + 5mV)). For higher frequencies I had to use a Rigol DS1074Z source output which is specified as ±(2% of the setting value + 1 mV), but also seems to do better than specified according to the readings. Due to relocation I only had access to banana leads so higher frequencies can not be tested. Anyway the UT117C AC V reading drops to zero for frequencies > 1.5 MHz.
kloetpatraHow do you create such charts?
The chart was made quick and dirty using anychart javscript library https://playground.anychart.com/h4rynMDs (https://playground.anychart.com/h4rynMDs)
I also did some DCV mesaurement comparison of the Keithleys using a AD584KH precision reference.
The shown deviation is in regard to the AD584KH chinese factory calibration values written on the back.
-
It seems to me that soon the dissatisfied will write a petition to the manufacturer so that they spoil their Uni-T UT117C to the 0.3% declared in the specifications. :)
-
Mine just arrived -- order was placed on the 12th so technically it took 15 days.
The package was wrapped in Uni-T tape so it stands to reason it came directly from Uni-T -- i.e. the Aliexpress seller simply placed a drop-ship order.
My bundle of the UT117C + clamp meter also came with an oversized mouse pad -- not sure what I'm going to use it for.
-
My ut117c have a precision above 0.1% (compare with philips pm2525). Resistance readings also overestimate on precise resistors (+ 0.1%)
-
comparison measurements of devices
-
Mine just arrived -- order was placed on the 12th so technically it took 15 days.
I am also in the USA and ordered mine on Aug 2nd, so should get mine in 15 days?.....I hope :-DMM
-
Hi! Just joined the forum.
I received my UT117C from Aliexpress a couple of weeks ago. Played with it before leaving for a vacation.
I backed up its 24C02 EEPROM. I tested it against an AD584KH, a pile of 0.01% resistors, a VREF-01, my handmade 1-5-10V reference, and some low-cost reference gadgets (e.g. LB06). When testing voltages, I didn't trust the voltage reference, and instead compared the UT117C's reading to that of my Agilent 34401.
To make a long story short, it seems to be uniformly inaccurate. I mean, voltage ranges are reading roughly 6 digits high and resistance ranges are about 6 digits low.
I want to figure out how to access its calibration menu. Unless someone has already solved that topic and can offer a quick reply, I'll eventually ask that question in a separate thread. I found an unusual menu by holding buttons during power-on but didn't go further.
I've calibrated a small stack of meters using my materials, and been pretty pleased with the result. My ZT-102 is basically perfect (and unlocked to 9999 count using AN8008 EEPROM's limit settings). One of my RM303s is quite good (and its EEPROM stores individual calibrations for each resistance range, unusual for a 12P65-based meter). My Owon B41T+ had the worst rated accuracy but it is a newer revision with a multiturn pot for DC and its DCV is good after a lot of tweaking.
-
Hi! Just joined the forum.
I received my UT117C from Aliexpress a couple of weeks ago. Played with it before leaving for a vacation.
I backed up its 24C02 EEPROM. I tested it against an AD584KH, a pile of 0.01% resistors, a VREF-01, my handmade 1-5-10V reference, and some low-cost reference gadgets (e.g. LB06). When testing voltages, I didn't trust the voltage reference, and instead compared the UT117C's reading to that of my Agilent 34401.
To make a long story short, it seems to be uniformly inaccurate. I mean, voltage ranges are reading roughly 6 digits high and resistance ranges are about 6 digits low.
I want to figure out how to access its calibration menu. Unless someone has already solved that topic and can offer a quick reply, I'll eventually ask that question in a separate thread. I found an unusual menu by holding buttons during power-on but didn't go further.
I've calibrated a small stack of meters using my materials, and been pretty pleased with the result. My ZT-102 is basically perfect (and unlocked to 9999 count using AN8008 EEPROM's limit settings). One of my RM303s is quite good (and its EEPROM stores individual calibrations for each resistance range, unusual for a 12P65-based meter). My Owon B41T+ had the worst rated accuracy but it is a newer revision with a multiturn pot for DC and its DCV is good after a lot of tweaking.
Wow
Nice first post :-+ :-+
Welcome to the forum!
Looking forward to seeing your new thread(s).
-
Thanks! I'd borrowed an occasional tip from the forums to use in my work up to now. But it was last year, when I found myself single (widowed) and bored, and I idly wondered whether there was anything interesting I should know about my ZT-102. One thing led to another... I've spent about USD1500 at eBay and AliExpress and DigiKey so far. It's been educational, and I'm a bit less bored. :-+
-
So, how to calibrate ut117c? :)
-
So, how to calibrate ut117c?
That *is* the question. :)
I can't find my note at my workbench about which keypresses launched the hidden menu. And the menu merely shows "0" through "9", which advances by a keypress.
I could swear that I'd reached a sign of success once. I pressed some sequence and reached a DCV range, though I'd started the meter in ACV. Never reproduced that since.
The meter has a separate MCU driving Hycon chips. If it was 100% Hycon chips like the HP-770D I last played with, I'd expect a calibration experience like ZT-102 and RM-303 and so on, because the Hycon MCUs have very little space and their firmware never seems to vary much. But with the separate MCU, anything goes.
-
this combianation of sel+rel+ multimeter on. But what this 0 is mean :-//
-
The backlight on those is a pretty poor (couple LEDs around main LCD). Does yours behave the same?
-
Hi! Just joined the forum.
I received my UT117C from Aliexpress a couple of weeks ago. Played with it before leaving for a vacation.
I backed up its 24C02 EEPROM. I tested it against an AD584KH, a pile of 0.01% resistors, a VREF-01, my handmade 1-5-10V reference, and some low-cost reference gadgets (e.g. LB06). When testing voltages, I didn't trust the voltage reference, and instead compared the UT117C's reading to that of my Agilent 34401.
To make a long story short, it seems to be uniformly inaccurate. I mean, voltage ranges are reading roughly 6 digits high and resistance ranges are about 6 digits low.
I want to figure out how to access its calibration menu. Unless someone has already solved that topic and can offer a quick reply, I'll eventually ask that question in a separate thread. I found an unusual menu by holding buttons during power-on but didn't go further.
I've calibrated a small stack of meters using my materials, and been pretty pleased with the result. My ZT-102 is basically perfect (and unlocked to 9999 count using AN8008 EEPROM's limit settings). One of my RM303s is quite good (and its EEPROM stores individual calibrations for each resistance range, unusual for a 12P65-based meter). My Owon B41T+ had the worst rated accuracy but it is a newer revision with a multiturn pot for DC and its DCV is good after a lot of tweaking.
what error did you end up with in comparison?
-
LeonR, agreed, the UT117C's backlight isn't great. I reached for my nearest DMM, an HP-770D, for a side-by-side check. I'd guess the UT117C had about 60-70% of the lumens of the other.
makz, SEL+REL sounds right. As for comparison, I'm not sure what you're asking.
Out of the box, all the DCV and resistance ranges I tested on my UT117C are about six digits off. This is oddly consistent and made me think they copied the EEPROM from another unit without recalibrating :-//.
As for some of my other calibrated meters...
The RM303 is rated for better accuracy (0.05%+-3 in DCV) and is now within a digit or two on multiple DCV and resistance ranges after a brief warmup. It's the best resistance accuracy I've seen in a cheap meter so far. I modded the voltage reference but it was nearly as good before this. (Changed ICL8069D to a handpicked ICL8069A with low drift and added a 4.7uF cap across it per datasheet recommendation. Was hoping to get rid of its wobble, 10.000V is 9.999-10.001 every second or two, but the mod only helped a little. Paralleled caps in a few spots also didn't help. Didn't want to try adding a VLCD supply as another modder did.)
The B41T+ is only accurate to 1-2 digits on a short range of DCV. Its linearity as tested across its 2.2-22V range seems a bit off (several digits IIRC) and some other modes don't have their own calibration (no EEPROM, just a few pots). The B41T+ is a good performing meter otherwise, with a fast-responding analog bar graph and fast auto-ranging.
Incidentally, the bar graph on the UT117C is responsive but "noisy", at least during a quick check of around 5.0VDC.
-
LeonR, agreed, the UT117C's backlight isn't great. I reached for my nearest DMM, an HP-770D, for a side-by-side check. I'd guess the UT117C had about 60-70% of the lumens of the other.
makz, SEL+REL sounds right. As for comparison, I'm not sure what you're asking.
Out of the box, all the DCV and resistance ranges I tested on my UT117C are about six digits off. This is oddly consistent and made me think they copied the EEPROM from another unit without recalibrating :-//.
six digits off - 5.0006 instead of 5V? I understand correctly?
-
BT is nice too.
I'm disappointed that Brymen didn't release the Bluetooth option in the BM786 :(
It was supposed to be ready for release but it never happened.
-
NO.
UT117C has 0.3% DCV accuracy. https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut117c/
It is stupid high resolution, 0.3% DCV meter. Well build, with couple of nice features like BT. Extra digit or two does not make it more accurate.
0.3% 60,000 count meter, seriously?
It's marketed at "High Precision", so seems like the wrong choice of wording here, it should be "High Resolution"
-
No mA/uA range is limiting.
Basically marketing a high resolution electrican meter.
-
No mA/uA range is limiting.
Basically marketing a high resolution electrican meter.
review is not planned? :)
-
review is not planned? :)
Without a mA/uA range I wouldn't even consider it an electronics class multimeter. So no review from me, I'm not that interested in electrical targeted stuff.
-
0.3% 60,000 count meter, seriously?
[/quote]
Nobody confirmed 0.3%. I insist that this is a mistake in the description and many have already confirmed that the characteristics on paper have deteriorated by more than 10 times. Maybe in order not to spoil the sales of UT61E+.
-
Inside
-
Nobody confirmed 0.3%. I insist that this is a mistake in the description and many have already confirmed that the characteristics on paper have deteriorated by more than 10 times. Maybe in order not to spoil the sales of UT61E+.
It's not a mistake, the accuracy spec is primarily determiend by the voltage reference used.
This a 60,000 count meter with 6,000 count meter reference.
The fact that it's calibrated to be way better than 0.3% is not the point, the reference will be a cheapie. Will probably vary a lot with temp.
-
Maybe. But UT117C is built on the basis of HY3131 which is 50000 counts. I saw the same in table Owon for 55000. On the same is made UEI EEvblog UE121GV. Is he 6000? And declared for 50000.
As for thermostability. My BM789 for how much I know, not the best thermostability.
-
The resolution of the chip used is one thing, the reality the other. I own 2 meters, one is based on LD120+LD121 which is 20000 (aprox 40y old), and the other one is based on MAX134 which is 40000 (30y old). The reality is the first one is implemented as 2000 and the second one as 4000 max resolution. It seems the designers decided to show a stable reading instead of more digits with noisy last digit. And the reference used is pretty important indication as well - for 60000 (almost 16bit) you would need something like LM399 to make the meter happy..
-
UT117C is built on the basis of HY3131 which is 50000 counts
What iMo said. :)
A lot of popular lower-end meters for a few years have been 6000, 9999, 19999 counts, all seemingly based on HY12P65 single-chip solution which is officially 5000 counts but has a 19-bit ADC. It's possible to get more out of the chips. It's more a question of the limits/quality of the ADC, voltage reference, ...
I think UT117C shows promise for my day-to-day use. It's more responsive, the LCD contrast is better, and its readings are more stable, than my RM303 and HP-770D. It sounds like it has better handling of resistance ranges than HP-770D as well. EEVBlog's point about the lack of current ranges is valid but I usually need to casually check 1-500ma and I have other meters for uA. And I see more protection on its board than in a ZT-102 :) so I'm a little more comfortable reaching for it to test mains voltage. I'd like to see a formal review covering its protection.
-
Wonder what will be the real price. Now it costs 130 euro/600 PLN - I think APPA/BRYMEN/SANWA are not far away.
There are a couple of vendors selling it for $73 USD:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805457726202.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805457726202.html)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805466430596.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805466430596.html)
I just placed an order, 65 US dollars ship to Australia.
-
I've almost pulled the trigger, but the message on the mA/uA ranges stopped me.
So what is the "resolution" on the DC current then?
PS: and the DC volts "resolution"?
-
I paid US$74 at Aliexpress. The same store has $72 now, and there are $64 listings in the "Related items" section.
The lowest DC current range is 6.0000A, 100uA resolution. The lowest DC voltage range is 600.00mV, resolution 10uV. I didn't check mine to see how far off these are.
Belated followup to makz:
six digits off - 5.0006 instead of 5V? I understand correctly?
Yes, basically 5.0006, 500.06 mV, etc. And reading a 0.01% resistor goes in the other direction, 50K is 49.995 and so on. And 1.0V and 10K are off by a smaller amount, and so on up to 5.0V and 50K. My takeaways from that were... 1) I'm hopeful that the readings across each scale will have better linearity than my other 4+ digit cheap meters. 2) Not an offset issue (FYI 0V is 0.0000V). 3) They might have copied the calibration EEPROM from a known-good calibrated unit, and this unit's voltage reference is off by '6'.
-
The lowest 6.0000A AC/DC current range will be the show stopper for many, I am afraid..
Having it 600.00mA I would order 2-3 for the $65-75/unit price..
-
I found the picture on a Chinese website "数码之家", the voltage reference is MAX6190
https://www.mydigit.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=401149&highlight=UT117 (https://www.mydigit.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=401149&highlight=UT117)
-
Belated followup to makz:
six digits off - 5.0006 instead of 5V? I understand correctly?
Yes, basically 5.0006, 500.06 mV, etc. And reading a 0.01% resistor goes in the other direction, 50K is 49.995 and so on. And 1.0V and 10K are off by a smaller amount, and so on up to 5.0V and 50K. My takeaways from that were... 1) I'm hopeful that the readings across each scale will have better linearity than my other 4+ digit cheap meters. 2) Not an offset issue (FYI 0V is 0.0000V). 3) They might have copied the calibration EEPROM from a known-good calibrated unit, and this unit's voltage reference is off by '6'.
In my opinion, the accuracy of your multimeter is very good. mine is much worse
-
Yes, basically 5.0006, 500.06 mV, etc. And reading a 0.01% resistor goes in the other direction, 50K is 49.995 and so on. And 1.0V and 10K are off by a smaller amount, and so on up to 5.0V and 50K. My takeaways from that were... 1) I'm hopeful that the readings across each scale will have better linearity than my other 4+ digit cheap meters. 2) Not an offset issue (FYI 0V is 0.0000V). 3) They might have copied the calibration EEPROM from a known-good calibrated unit, and this unit's voltage reference is off by '6'.
My results are similar. My main 'Likes' are the strap w/magnet, and the blue tooth, but I wish the software worked on a windows laptop.
The manual says the current clamp can read DC current, but I couldn't get any DC reading. And I could get no AC amperage readings below 1.5 ADC. Also, the current clamp, (UT-CS06A), works with some of my other DMMs, in mV mode, like my Brymen 869S and Fluke 189.
I paid $72 USD for just the meter, which took exactly 20 days to my doorstep, but I see it adv. now for $64.
Overall, I'm happy with the resolution and accuracy, and I'm glad I got it :popcorn:
-
My results are similar. My main 'Likes' are the strap w/magnet, and the blue tooth, but I wish the software worked on a windows laptop.
You might be able to run the Android app on a Windows system:
https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/3-free-ways-to-run-android-apps-on-your-pc (https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/3-free-ways-to-run-android-apps-on-your-pc)
-
Maybe. But UT117C is built on the basis of HY3131 which is 50000 counts. I saw the same in table Owon for 55000. On the same is made UEI EEvblog UE121GV. Is he 6000? And declared for 50000.
The 121GW is 50,000 count, as per the HY3131 spec.
The accuracy and stability is primarily determined by the external voltage used, and the external voltage divider, not the chipset.
-
I found the picture on a Chinese website "数码之家", the voltage reference is MAX6190
That's the best A version with 5ppm tempco. This should be pretty good.
Perhaps they have divider drift issues or something.
-
can someone upload a dump of EEPROM P24C02A?
-
can someone upload a dump of EEPROM P24C02A?
Ok! :-+
-
Exactly what I got.
The mousepad is relegated to the dust bin.
Mine just arrived -- order was placed on the 12th so technically it took 15 days.
The package was wrapped in Uni-T tape so it stands to reason it came directly from Uni-T -- i.e. the Aliexpress seller simply placed a drop-ship order.
My bundle of the UT117C + clamp meter also came with an oversized mouse pad -- not sure what I'm going to use it for.
-
the problem is that Aliexpress has already doubled the price, I saw it at 61 € shipping to Spain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mB5jIO4uz4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mB5jIO4uz4)
-
with Fluke 117 :-DMM
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what-did-you-buy-today-post-your-latest-purchase!/?action=dlattach;attach=1865683;image)
-
with Fluke 117 :-DMM
I was planning to pass up the 117C. I obviously don't need another handheld multimeter. But between Darren's review and the size comparison to the Fluke 117, I'm greatly tempted. The ergonomics of the 117 are great, it fits my hand perfectly, and is a pleasure to handle. While not a great bench meter, the 117 is my go-to general purpose household meter. Not too small and fiddly like a pocket meter, and not too bulky like my Brymans and 87V. It's pretty clear the 117C was intended as a clone of the Fluke 117. The only real gripe is same as for the Fluke 117 -- no mA range. The Fluke 117 is intended as an electrician's meter so it kinda makes sense for such a 6K count meter to have no mA range, so putting 60K counts in a clone of said electrician's meter but still with no mA range doesn't make much sense to me. So really the extra counts are a gimmick, but otherwise it does look like a great meter for the money. I may just have to add it to my collection...
-
If you have the opportunity, time and desire, or someone else from the owners, please do a TrueRMS test on a non-sinusoidal signal. Earlier (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-launches-the-ut117c-multimeter/msg4969246/#msg4969246 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-launches-the-ut117c-multimeter/msg4969246/#msg4969246)) we saw a courtesy result on sine. 117C is not bad at all. The measurement was even at different limits. But it looks like it was only a sine.
-
I did a simple test of the frequency response of UT117C, all my meters have not been calibrated, it is for reference only.
-
Pictures of PCBA, high resolution pictures can be found here:
https://github.com/gamalot/UT117C-Pictures
-
Some other pictures.
-
Hello everyone !
This DMM ut-117c has a BlueTooth driver. I like the USB interface of the ut-61e (and ut-71).
Does this ut-117c have a usb interface?
Thanks you !
-
Hello everyone !
This DMM ut-117c has a BlueTooth driver. I like the USB interface of the ut-61e (and ut-71).
Does this ut-117c have a usb interface?
Thanks you !
1. Do any of UNIT-T blurbs about this meter make any mention of USB?
2. Do any of the photos a few posts above show any signs of a USB connector?
Answer those questions and you have the answer to your question.
-
Not to beat a dead horse, but on the subject of milliamps....granted, the UT117C does not have a dedicated mA selection, but I have been making accurate measurements down into the single digit mA range, using the A setting on the dial. :horse:
-
Not to beat a dead horse, but on the subject of milliamps....granted, the UT117C does not have a dedicated mA selection, but I have been making accurate measurements down into the single digit mA range, using the A setting on the dial. :horse:
It's just a copy of the Fluke 117 which is the same, it's an electricians meter, not an electronics meter.
The Fluke 17B is the electronics version with mA and uA.
-
The Fluke 117 is intended as an electrician's meter so it kinda makes sense for such a 6K count meter to have no mA range, so putting 60K counts in a clone of said electrician's meter but still with no mA range doesn't make much sense to me. So really the extra counts are a gimmick
Yes, it's a gimmick, with Uni-T not really understanding the market. They were better off with a bigger fatter 6000 count display.
-
The Fluke 17B is the electronics version with mA and uA.
Yep, hugs his old 15B close.
-
The Fluke 117 is intended as an electrician's meter so it kinda makes sense for such a 6K count meter to have no mA range, so putting 60K counts in a clone of said electrician's meter but still with no mA range doesn't make much sense to me. So really the extra counts are a gimmick
Yes, it's a gimmick, with Uni-T not really understanding the market. They were better off with a bigger fatter 6000 count display.
Agreed. I've decided since I have a 117 for electrical work, I'd favor the 17B Max over the Uni-T 117C for a similar sized meter. In fact I just ordered one. :D
-
Agreed. I've decided since I have a 117 for electrical work, I'd favor the 17B Max over the Uni-T 117C for a similar sized meter. In fact I just ordered one. :D
The 17B MAX looks like a really nice general purpose meter. I've only got the old 17B, it's been through thre 17B+ and now MAX version.
-
Doesn't the following function technically mean it does have mA just not uA?
-
Doesn't the following function technically mean it does have mA just not uA?
Technically yes but think about the accuracy spec.
-
I understand Dave's point about the marketing of this meter, but I think UNI-T wanted something they could differentiate from Fluke's 117C, and wanted to grab some of the "I NEED a lot of counts" market. Some non-electrician might see the 60000 counts and grab it.
This meter has felt like it has a lot of potential to be my daily grab-and-go DMM, which lately has been a calibrated B41T+. The LCD is more readable than my other cheap meters. The input protection seems good enough that I could loan it to a non-technical friend and get it back in one piece. It's cheap enough that I don't mind abusing it.
I'm starting to compare it to UT181A, having seen N8FDY's review. I saw his AD584KH readings. When you pay USD350 for a UNI-T 60000 count meter, apparently they remember to calibrate it to within a digit. :P
I could get interested in hacking the MCU and adding a mA (and possibly uA?) mode. I didn't try reading out the firmware. I have limited time for playing with it at the moment.
I'd like to see more samples of dumped EEPROMs from other UT117C owners. I'll note that my EEPROM contents don't look like DreamTech's usual work (DTM0660 and whatever modified stuff is in my RM303). A bit of side-trivia, partially unconfirmed: DTM0660 seems to store a master voltage value, referenced to 500mV, at offsets 22H-23H in EEPROM. I changed a shunt voltage reference in a meter, recalibrated only its millivolt level, and the rest of the modes became as accurate as they'd been before the change. It would be nice if such a thing existed in UT117C. I could recalibrate one setting and all of my 5-digit-off readings might fall into line. One can dream, right? :)
[Edited to remove quickly-typed sloppy wording that might have been construed as insults.]
-
I just tested the power consumption of UT117C.
---
Update: Turning on the backlight will increase the current consumption by about 2mA.
-
can someone upload a dump of EEPROM P24C02A?
Here is mine.
-
I was thinking of getting a new multimeter. Would you recommend ut117c or Brymen BM789
-
I was thinking of getting a new multimeter. Would you recommend ut117c or Brymen BM789
I'd say that's a no-brainer. Brymen BM789 for nearly any use case I can think of. Especially if your use case if primarily bench electronics work.
You might also consider Dave's eevBlog branded BM786, which you can get from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/EEVblog-BM786-Multimeter/dp/B08N61LF4Z) in the US. Otherwise you're looking to import from an EU dealer since Brymen doesn't authorize their branded meters to be sold directly in the US. Greenlee is the main US seller of rebranded Brymen meters with good US warranty & support, but at a premium cost compared to the OEM Brymen models. I can recommend the German retailer Welectron if you choose to buy other Brymen models. They have great prices, low cost & fast shipping to US, and no sales tax. But you'll get no warranty or support from Brymen.
-
I was thinking of getting a new multimeter. Would you recommend ut117c or Brymen BM789
If you are immersed in choosing a DMM, then of course choose BM789.
-
Doesn't the following function technically mean it does have mA just not uA?
That setting on the dial is for the amp- clamp accessory, which utilizes mV.
The clamp works well with most of my DMMs on the mV range. But it won't work on DC. Also, I couldn't get a reading below 1.5 Amps AC/
-
Pricing on Aliexpress had previously decreased to about USD64 for the base UT117C without the clamp. Now it's USD105. What happened? What did I miss?
-
Pricing on Aliexpress had previously decreased to about USD64 for the base UT117C without the clamp. Now it's USD105. What happened? What did I miss?
Aiexpress noticed the jump in numbers being ordered.
-
Pricing on Aliexpress had previously decreased to about USD64 for the base UT117C without the clamp. Now it's USD105. What happened? What did I miss?
Demand increased, I expect. I may have still bought one had it not shot up $40 since it came out, but the full kit price is now just a few dollars shy of a Fluke 17B Max which is a much better electronics meter even at only 6K counts. And a few bucks more than that will get you a BM786, which is arguably one of if not the best electronics DMM for the money. So IMO they've priced themselves out of competition.
-
can someone upload a dump of EEPROM P24C02A?
Here is mine.
I tried to upload yours firmware, my device greatly underestimates the voltage (- 0.1%). I noticed that I have a soldered eprom, so the firmware may be from another unit :(
-
can someone upload a dump of EEPROM P24C02A?
Ok! :-+
I've uploaded yours firmware, it's a little more accurate than mine. If someone else posts the firmware, I can choose the optimal one))
-
I tried to upload yours firmware, my device greatly underestimates the voltage (- 0.1%). I noticed that I have a soldered eprom, so the firmware may be from another unit :(
Are you saying your EEPROM appears hand-soldered? Anything's possible, but the rework could be for a more innocent reason.
-
I tried to upload yours firmware, my device greatly underestimates the voltage (- 0.1%). I noticed that I have a soldered eprom, so the firmware may be from another unit :(
Are you saying your EEPROM appears hand-soldered? Anything's possible, but the rework could be for a more innocent reason.
My unit was used and sold as new. So, its was deception. There are components on the board that are not yet factory, I’ll try to restore its accuracy. I hope eeprom from my device
I think I've found a calibration constant for DCV. Now DC voltage correct. I'll check other functions later
-
Hmm, how do you know it was used? Reworking a board is normal, especially in early production. Was there other evidence besides the EEPROM?
I think I've found a calibration constant for DCV.
Excellent! Does the change affect all DCV ranges, or just one? And if it affects all DCV ranges, do you notice any change in resistance ranges?
-
Hmm, how do you know it was used? Reworking a board is normal, especially in early production. Was there other evidence besides the EEPROM?
I think I've found a calibration constant for DCV.
Excellent! Does the change affect all DCV ranges, or just one? And if it affects all DCV ranges, do you notice any change in resistance ranges?
DCV all ranges more accurate now. I will compare with pm2525. Resistance range without any changes, im not sure
-
old eeprom and new eeprom
-
It's been a busy time, but I revisited UT117C briefly.
EEPROM offsets 01 and 02 are an overall DCV calibration value. 01 is the MSB, 02 is the LSB.
I discovered that my unit's DCV range isn't zeroed perfectly. So, as I calibrated DCV by manually updating the value in offset 02 of EEPROM, I checked both +5V and -5V. I updated offset 02 to a level where +5V is shown as three counts too high, and -5V is two counts too low.
Linearity is okay but not perfect when I check 1VDC, 2V, ... up to 6V. The 5V is a bit off and the 6V is off by quite a bit more.
-
Hi, nobody mention capacitors measurements, sad surprise for me - the resolution 1nF, so to measure 10000pF will display 9nF ((.
Other than that all ok.
-
Mine reads 0.01uF......go figure.
-
I don't have reference voltage but I have set of resistors with 0.01%, is it reasonable to make conclusion regarding accuracy of VDC upon result of resistors measurements accuracy?
ps. update, it seems like my assumption correct, the resistors measurement of my specimen within 0.03%, and voltage taken from AD588AQ was 10.000V
-
I don't have reference voltage but I have set of resistors with 0.01%, is it reasonable to make conclusion regarding accuracy of VDC upon result of resistors measurements accuracy?
The VDC and resistance calibration values seem to be stored separately.
My UT117C's VDC ranges are "bang-on" accurate at their low end such as 1.0V, 2.0V, but are off by 5-6 counts at 5.0V and are off by many more counts at 5.9V. In comparison, the 60K resistance range with my 0.01% resistors is off by the same amount throughout. My readings are typically five counts below the resistor's rated value at 10K, 20K, 30K, 40K, 50K.
-
I don't have reference voltage but I have set of resistors with 0.01%, is it reasonable to make conclusion regarding accuracy of VDC upon result of resistors measurements accuracy?
The VDC and resistance calibration values seem to be stored separately.
My UT117C's VDC ranges are "bang-on" accurate at their low end such as 1.0V, 2.0V, but are off by 5-6 counts at 5.0V and are off by many more counts at 5.9V. In comparison, the 60K resistance range with my 0.01% resistors is off by the same amount throughout. My readings are typically five counts below the resistor's rated value at 10K, 20K, 30K, 40K, 50K.
it looks like nonlinear ADC
-
What do you think about UT117c and UT185A which multimeter will be more accurate for measuring currents less than 2mA?
-
What do you think about UT117c and UT185A which multimeter will be more accurate for measuring currents less than 2mA?
UT117c resolution for current 0.1mA
UT185A - what is this?