UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator

[Mechatrommer]

saw this among feeltech/elec/kkmoon while aliexpressing for budget FG/AWG... $130, ie 40% discount from original price of $217 go figure
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000373256414.html (old link dead)

googling shows the web is up on 15th Nov (UTG962E)
https://www.uni-trend.com/html/product/NewProducts/UTG900E%20Series/UTG962E.html

i searched for UTG962, none, but it turned out in chinese website..
https://www.uni-trend.com.cn/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=416&id=741

i thought UTG962 is reject version, because i cant find english page for it but the seller (uni-t official store) said its chinese version, english version is UTG962E, but its not for sale yet. but the chinese version we can set to english (according to him)... no link/doc available yet in english web, but in chinese web, there are SW and pdf, but all in chinese...

in short, its 200MSa/s, 66MSa/s slower than feelelec, but it has 4.3" LCD with more proper front panel buttons etc, quite compact 172mm x 90mm face and only 68mm depth, so it will still fit nicely under my dso rack. 5V input, connections and BNC outputs all are on the side, so better candidate to mod to portable unit. no clear indication memory depth for arbitrary function, but there's hint 4kpts in the chinese pdf, correct me if i'm wrong i cant read chinese. for more details, you can follow the links.

There is no a single review in the net nor hinted even a single word here, even in official website it looks still "under construction".. but its 40% discount and $100+ range tag made me wait for the Black Friday to get even more discount 44% ie $121, and it is now so i ordered one 60MHz version, i'm number 2, so there is still 98 pcs for UTG962, UTG932 (30MHz $105) still no purchasers hence 100 stocks. i wish to make a thread plus short review when it arrived and tested, but Black Friday discount is only until 3 Dec, so if someone interested, they may missed the 44% discount, so here it is. but since this is unknown, this maybe turned out to be apple or orange i dont know, this is just a bet when its on bullish price (or maybe peak? depending on how it will perform later). so if you want to risk $120 or yourself as a victim of circumtances, then you may click that order button now. Cheers.

SOME NOTABLE ACHIEVEMENTS THROUGHOUT THE YEARS BY MEMBERS:
Some Performance Testing (JamesLynton, Page 5)
Open Source Python App for UTG900. (Jukka, Page 9)
mCU, FW Commands and UTG932 -> UTG962 Hack (fremen67, Page 9)
Another Performance Testing (IAmBack, Page 11)
My Battery Pack Mod (Page 14)

UTG900's Synch output rise time (963ps) (page 2)
...
PM me if i miss some other important facts/achievements/discoveries regarding UTG900 here in this thread, cheers...

[ataradov]

Thanks! Ordered one as well.  I was just looking for a small footprint signal generator. It would be interesting to see if this can be hacked to be battery operated.

[thyself]

This is the site of the brand new UNI-T UTG900E Function Generators: 
https://www.uni-trend.com/html/product/NewProducts/UTG900E%20Series/

Here is the English manual:
https://www.uni-trend.com/uploadfile/2019/1118/20191118091436691.pdf

Although on specs looks little shy, and its GUI kind of ugly,
its features look amazing, especially for this class of device in that price range.
Probably is going to be a hit among hobbyists, even open new market niche.

[Mechatrommer]

from my perspective, in term of performance, the feeltech fy6900 is better (250MSa/s vs 200MSa/s uni-t), (8kpts vs 4kpts), and uni-t is more expensive $80 vs $130. but the better thing for me in uni-t is, smaller footprint, numeric pads, ie more buttons, larger screen, colorful/intuitive GUI (if the ads similar to the real thing). btw black friday still 2 hours left, only 9 sold still 191 stocks to go. so maybe we are the first 10 who's going to try it..

[ataradov]

Mine has arrived. It had English enabled by default. There is a way to enable Chinese as well in the menu, so the current firmware is universal.

I played with it a bit, and I like it so far. The UI is fine, not the greatest, but very usable. The actual mechanical feel of the buttons and the device in general is excellent for its size.

I'm not even going to bother to check actual performance numbers, I simply don't care in this case. The only complain I have about "visual" quality of the signal is quite soft edges on the square wave (~20 ns rise/fall time 0-100% levels at all frequencies).

[ataradov]

And a couple of quick pictures of the guts.

There is ~25 mm (1") of free space on the inside over the whole unit. It can easily fit a battery bank and be battery powered.

[Mechatrommer]

nice... mine should arrive few days ago (100km away) but either our local postal staffs are too busy or are sleeping (5-7 days no movement). the 20ns rise time will make it acceptably around 2-3MHz square wave only. at 25MHz, its just a sine wave. investigation on the output front end will be interesting. will it output 10Vpp sine as claimed on 50 ohm load?

[Mechatrommer]

mine arrived (with free gift). did a quick test and some pictures...

pros:
1) good build quality and GUI/buttons (with LED)
2) large LCD for such mini device (and colorfull GUI too)

cons:
1) there is full swing signal burst for about 10-25ms on relay click amplitude transition, 2 to 2.1Vpp, 0.4 to 0.5Vpp, 0.1 to 0.2Vpp, 20 to 30mVpp (50 ohm load). the worst is transition from 2 to 2.1Vpp (10Vpp or 23+dBm burst) see attached picture (DS1Z_QuickPrint1.png - DS1Z_QuickPrint4.png). it maybe can damage sensitive RF circuitry (or not? i dont know, maybe it depends) but it should not be happening.
2)no frequency sweep sigh! correction: yes they have sweep function, its called "Line". so yes, they have no sweep function, but "Line" function (shaking my knee fall and slip carefully )

as i dont really need modulation so far, so i dont test all extensively, only did some quick test on AM modulation. but it does have many modulation options such as sine/square/arb etc on AM modulation, not sure how important this is. from experience, i usually will use sine wave only mostly, but lack of sweep function to do frequency respond of a DUT make this device a bummer (use Line Mode for sweep, my bad terminology ). if you dont care 2 1 serious cons mentioned above, this is a cute little device with easy to operate and change parameter using numeric pad.

what ataradov mentioned also confirmed, there is a bit of space between GUI/LCD pcb and FPGA/AWG pcb, so we can add holder for, and battery/fan circuitry pcb there for improvement if needed. the output is using THS3092 if i'm not mistaken from the picture and give nearly (flat?) 10Vpp (50ohm load) up to 10MHz this maybe good or not depending on how you used to (attached DS1Z_QuickPrint5.png - QuickPrint8.png)...

[nctnico]

No frequency sweep? Really? 

[PA0PBZ]

No frequency sweep? Really? 

The manual thinks otherwise (page 30 as you can see):

[ataradov]

Yes, there is frequency sweep. I have not looked at the output, but there is definitely an option for that in my menus, just as shown in the manual.

[Mechatrommer]

No frequency sweep? Really? 

The manual thinks otherwise (page 30 as you can see):

this is the second time i'm being fooled by UNI-T terminology the first time i read the manual i saw "Shake" specification, took me sometime to realize its probably "Jitter". i did use search function in Adobe reader for "sweep" keyword in the manual, but turned out nothing, so i thought no sweep function. i guess they used image instead of text to save the pdf manual, hence not text searchable. i remember seeing that "Line" button earlier (and Log) but i thought its somekind of modulation type (Line as in "Straight Line", not Linear ), so i skipped it. thanks. (updating previous post)

[Mechatrommer]

still hoping for the english SW version as i tried to make arb wave in it. managed to freehand drawn a wave in chinese SW, but i dont know what i was doing, and cant get the wave into the AWG.. the menus is all squared characters on them, so i was just shooting blind. while searching for latest SW, they released their video last week...



attached is square wave rise time (17.6ns, 10-90%), still wait for time to do spectral purity evaluation on the popular waves (sine, square, ramp etc)... if fast rise time square wave is needed, it should be easy with external high speed comparator feed just with sine output from the FG, but try to get good sine purity from square wave output or synthesizer will need more works and components, let alone at broadband... so, slow rise time of this unit is not so much trouble for me. fwiw...

[ataradov]

Over USB this thing is a standard USB Test and Measurement Device (USBTMC). It should not be too hard to figure out commands and create new software. But I have no interest in doing that myself.

[Mechatrommer]

below is capture of 1MHz and 10MHz square (using diy inline terminator) fwiw... currently i cant test the freq you want properly as i'm cleaning up the bench with many stuffs on it.

[ataradov]

It does not look to pretty.

[BravoV]

Don't you guys have higher BW scope ?

Say >300 Mhz or even better, just curious to see how the square wave looks like at max. 20 Mhz ? And also Sine @ 60 Mhz.

[ataradov]

I did test it at work on some Tek, which is a bit better than Rigol here. It is basically the same. 20 MHz square is really a distorted sine. That's the real output of this thing.

[BravoV]

Noted, thanks.

[Mechatrommer]

when its notably distorted at 20MHz, there's not much point using higher BW scope. if i'm not mistaken, below is 20MHz square. 20MHz sine (last 2 pictures) is much better than this with ~30dB down 60MHz harmonics.

[ataradov]

Second picture is named "square_20MHz.png".

[Mechatrommer]

ditto! the manual only specified square wave up to 15MHz.. maybe next project is to study/hack front end output/filter if increasing risetime is possible. but i guess, decompensating hack will screw original output respond. ymmv.

[ataradov]

I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense to mod this for signal quality. I doubt you will get a significant performance increase. This just needs to be accepted for what it is.

It is a very good generator overall, I would absolutely recommend it for a general purpose work. If you work with RF and need the cleanest signal ever, then consider other options. UI-wise it is WAY better than anything you get in this price range.

[Caliaxy]

Can you adjust the phase?

[ataradov]

Yes, both channels have independently adjustable phase.

[Messtechniker]

Since I'm in the market for something feature- and price-wise between
FY 6xxx, JDS and Rigol, Siglent, these UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 seem just right
for me.  The audio range is well covered by the equipment I have, but very occasionally
I need/want to go a bit beyond the audio range to check high frequency
audio input filters, for example. Currently using an el-cheapo XR 2206
bottom-of-the-barrel generator for such checks.

Will probably have to wait a bit until these generators
become available in Germany.

[gby]

I have been on the lookout for affordable generators that can output sin and cosine at the same frequency and handle changes "smoothly".  Ch1 = sine wave, Ch2 = sine wave at 90 Deg phase to Ch1 locked at the same frequency.  By "smoothly" I mean

1. You can change the frequency and both channels change at the same time with no glitches.  This means changing the frequency in a step at the same time on both channels AND not changing the instantaneous phase at the frequency step change.  The Feeltech and JDS generators always seem to have a glitch.  For example of bad behavior on the JDS6600 see https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/anybody-know-anything-about-this-signal-generator/msg1242238/#msg1242238

2.  Can both channels be frequency swept at the same time?  Specifically can Ch1 be sine, Ch2 be cosine and as the frequency is sweeping do the two channels stay locked at 90 apart at all times?  The same link listed above shows the JDS6600 sweeping both channels but the relative phase is all over the place/not locked at 90 Deg like it should be.

3.  For bonus points can the amplitude of both channels we stepped to a new value at the same time?

If someone could try the test listed in the link in item 1 above on the UNI-T I would be very interested to see the result.  Thanks.

[ataradov]

I don't see a way to change frequency on both channels at the same time. They do however stay in sync with a specified offset if you set the same frequency on both channel manually.

[TurboTom]

Happy New Year altogether!

@gby: It seems you've got to climb up the price ladder somewhat to get the features you're asking for. Just for interest, I hooked up a "pimped" Rigol DG800 to a scope and played a little with the settings. The good news is: it permits to couple both frequency and phase of the two channels simultaneously. The bad news -- well, see the first screenshot 

Then I tested my SDG6000X in the same configuration, and very much to my surprise, it performs flawlessly. Once again initialization was some hassle, apparently it requires a certain sequence of coupling the parameters, but once properly arranged, it will keep the phase relation of the two channels even through frequency changes (I tested up to 50MHz) without any glitches (second screenshot). Since the SDG2000X is of a similar design, maybe someone who owns one of these can verify if this AWG performs similarly. Obviously, both of these AWGs play in a different league than the UTG962, but the DG800 wouldn't be too far off.

I'm curious how Rigol's new DG2000 performs since they specifically advertise its "seamless" performance, and first comparisons indicate that this AWG is based on the same hardware as the DG800...

[gby]

TurboTom, I can verify that both the Siglent SDG2000x and SDG6000x families of generators can step frequency, do sweeps, and even frequency modulation all with no glitches in the output sine, cosine waves.

I worked with Siglent as a test case on the SDG2042x going through about 10 FW bugs/feature requests to get this to all work.  It took about 9 months but I was very impressed and grateful that Siglent did the work and that it all works so well.  The SDG6000x inherited this capability by having algorithms, FW based on the SDG2000x.  So far, in my experience, they are the only generators that can do this right/without horrible glitching.

My question here was just to see if a lower cost generator could also do it.

[InvisibleKid]

I have a questions for owners. At first I am interested in sweep function: does it have proper synchronization signal? I mean one pulse on each sweep. I own fy6800 and sweep relaisation here is horrible! There in square wave on sync output with exact frequency of main output while sweeping - just unusable.

I also interested about noise performance. Does it have any garbage from power supply on output? And another question: how much exactly does the output voltage correspond to the set voltage? Does it have unwanted DC-biasing?

I saw waveforms what you guys posting here and it looks decent for me. But how it can be sine on 60 MHz with 200 megasamples per second? If I doing correct math its about 3.33(3) points per cycle. But constructing sine cycle by ~3 points sounds ridiculous. Does it work because low pass filter?

I asks about high frequency range because I want to use this generator for determining frequency response of filters with center frequency about 40-50 MHz and hope this devise would work nice.

[Mechatrommer]

I have a questions for owners. At first I am interested in sweep function: does it have proper synchronization signal? I mean one pulse on each sweep. I own fy6800 and sweep relaisation here is horrible! There in square wave on sync output with exact frequency of main output while sweeping - just unusable.

yes it has proper sync, but you need to enable in system, by defalt its off (shared, as/with freq counter input) rise on start and fall in the middle of sweep, but rise sync is ahead of start sweep by about 300ns, see attached (10-60MHz sweep, 1ms 5Vpp)... during non sweep (normal sine output), the sync still produces square wave (with 2-3ns rise/fall time) at several multiples of main sine output. later attached picture (625KHz sync square with 10MHz sine output, 937KHz sync square with 60MHz output) so if anyone need fast rise time, sync can give that, but only up to nearly 1MHz freq.

I also interested about noise performance. Does it have any garbage from power supply on output? And another question: how much exactly does the output voltage correspond to the set voltage? Does it have unwanted DC-biasing?

I saw waveforms what you guys posting here and it looks decent for me. But how it can be sine on 60 MHz with 200 megasamples per second? If I doing correct math its about 3.33(3) points per cycle. But constructing sine cycle by ~3 points sounds ridiculous. Does it work because low pass filter?

see THD/FFT below for 10MHz and 60MHz sine (0dBm). i'm not aware of unwanted DC biasing happening. i can say Vpp shown on AWG screen is tally with signal output (mine have some difference maybe due to diy/china 50 ohm termination not really 50 ohm)

what i like so far... signal is flat from basically DC up to 60MHz (5Vpp max), so we dont have to do mental subtraction when trying to see a DUT respond. what i dont like, drawn arbitrary wave from china SW cant be uploaded to the AWG. i believe i clicked all buttons and can guess where the "upload" button is, but once dialog box popped up, we can select arb wave file, but one last button (i believe "upload to device") is disabled communication with device shown in text box as XXXXX:0 (X = rectangle box) maybe this AWG is not ready to receive arb data from PC? or FW is not completed yet?

and to note, at 5V power input it uses 1A current, so 1000mah battery can last only an hour.

[InvisibleKid]

Thank you for such a complete answer, Mechatrommer!

[TurboTom]

...
I saw waveforms what you guys posting here and it looks decent for me. But how it can be sine on 60 MHz with 200 megasamples per second? If I doing correct math its about 3.33(3) points per cycle. But constructing sine cycle by ~3 points sounds ridiculous. Does it work because low pass filter?
...

Exactly. Usually, there is a high order reconstruction low-pass filter installed right after the DAC. This filter has got a very steep slope right above the maximum frequency the AWG is capable to output, but considerably below half of the sampling frequency. As per the Shannon Theorem, in order to digitize or reconstruct a sine wave, two samples per period will suffice. Of course, this "ideal" case is not feasible in reality but for example, the Rigol DG800/900 series reaches 100MHz at only 250MSa/s which is just 2.5 samples per period. And they produce a surprisingly "cleanish"  output at these frequencies...

Here you can see the nineth-order filters of the two channels of the DG800/900 in the right half of the photo. In this AWG, a differential arrangement is utilized and the filters are installed directly in-line with the current-outputs of the DAC.




The UT9x2 utilizes a single-ended configuration of seventh order and the filter is installed after the transimpedance amplifier (which may cause additional distortion since the TIA "sees" a much higher bandwidth signal).

[Mechatrommer]

this is what i trace so far. you can see the "desampling?" filter there after OPA695. i didnt trace filter -> THS3092 closely yet, but basically thats the signal flow. this is more than 2 layers board so quite difficult to trace connections. i traced the 20ns rise time square signal comes from directly at the DAC (scrubbed, looks like AD9477 pin compatible) output. if anything to play around with risetime, those resistor network between DAC and OPA695 need to be played with.

[tszaboo]

I just found this generator, it looks like a really neat tiny instrument. Especially for 100 EUR. Does it power itself from USB, or do you have to use the plugpack?

[Mechatrommer]

I just found this generator, it looks like a really neat tiny instrument. Especially for 100 EUR. Does it power itself from USB, or do you have to use the plugpack?

no it cant be powered with USB port, you have to use the round socket (provided 5V plugpack) i think the reason to this, is it uses 1A of current which may burden or even damage PC USB port. maybe modding the round socket to miniUSB port if you want but thinking about this, we may still accidentally connect the miniUSB to the PC.

[Mechatrommer]

talking about clock jitter... i read the earlier version of FeelElec units have pretty serious jitter problem (4ns in one clock cycle). this seems nonsensical in modern design...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fy6800-vs-fy6900/msg2539278/#msg2539278

i tried to find jitter in this Uni-T AWG but cant find such problem even in 100 cycles of 10MHz square or sine (10us trigger offset). attached are 9.00024MHz (9.00027MHz displayed ) just to mimic the test on the above picture. i also tried some prime figures such as 7,777,777 Hz just to knock out DDS clock alignment, but i still cant see it.

but they keep recommending those units to newbies who seek budget AM/FG. whats the point of recommending a 25% cheaper unit if it has a very bad performance? need to tweak the PSU, istr nastier amplitude shift (during relay change/click) etc... or am i missing something or did something wrong with my test? the "Shake" performance specification of UTG is 0.2ns, i feel like my test is inlined with this figure (5ns minimum time/div of my DS1054Z)

ps edit: ok so far i can see 1ns jitter while sliding the 100 cycles of 7.7778MHz square...

[alextwin007]

but they keep recommending those units to newbies who seek budget AM/FG. whats the point of recommending a 25% cheaper unit if it has a very bad performance? need to tweak the PSU, istr nastier amplitude shift (during relay change/click) etc... or am i missing something or did something wrong with my test? the "Shake" performance specification of UTG is 0.2ns, i feel like my test is inlined with this figure (5ns minimum time/div of my DS1054Z)

I'm currently looking for a budget AM/FG, and one thing about this one compared to the fytech ones is that there isn't much info about this one.  I'm currently following this thread, but ironically you know what you are getting with the fytech over this am/fg due to the lack of information online (despite the fact that I trust UNT more).  Last time I looked for reviews on this, or videos I found nothing.  My guess is that is keeping people away (for me I'm just going to wait for more info to come out).

[Mechatrommer]

..and one thing about this one compared to the fytech ones is that there isn't much info about this one....    (for me I'm just going to wait for more info to come out).

i think you wont find much as there's not much to tinker about, it just works out of the box, except few caveats thats already mentioned here, which i think very minimal and contribute very little to (my) practical application. checking the seller's rating so far also not showing much negative about it, only due to incompatible power plug style. you maybe wise about the decision to wait, sometime i do the same thing to newly released stuffs. things like this unit is not PC programmable yet, i hope they are currently working on this. but arbitrary mode is seldomly used for me, but some eager users may think or find this feature is important, so their mileage may vary.

I'm currently following this thread, but ironically you know what you are getting with the fytech over this am/fg due to the lack of information online (despite the fact that I trust UNT more).  Last time I looked for reviews on this, or videos I found nothing...

its just a matter of some youtuber get this into their hand and make some review in motion picture form or to make comparison side by side with feelec. comparing my experience using this utg962 vs from what i read about feelec, i think uni-t is still the right decision albeit its higher price (proper GUI keypads warrants this imho). i mean how can people possibly live with 4ns jitter and still recommending it? i feel like i miss something big about some technical issue of a FG/AWG specification/functionality.

btw, this unit is just few weeks old, i was just looking for the cheapest Feelec FG when this thing emerged from one single seller Uni-T Official Aliexpress Store (and it seems now still is), but UNI-T is a well known T&M manufacturer, i have few UNI-T brand tools already, so i have very little doubt that they will produce normal consumer grade (instead of "hobbiest" grade stuff that we need to tinker about out of box), which imho they did. imho its professionally made and i achieved one of my objective to learn their psu topology (5V to ±13V)

[alextwin007]

For those who are looking for info about this, a video review has finally been posted, but it's in spanish.
Even so it gives you an idea about the UI and what it's like to use.

[Elm]

... this unit is just few weeks old,...

Look at this:

I don't know the age of this model, I have found this picture on ebay. Assume the "new" UTG-962 is a remake...

[Mechatrommer]

I dont think its a remake.. the utg2000 series are full size awg, bncs on the front, and only go up 20+MHz at $300+. Someone should already sniffed it earlier if they are bang per buck...

[alextwin007]

I'm guessing it's not a remake, but the common UI form factor means they might be re-using a lot of the GUI software.  Hopefully that means the UI is a bit more mature and it is a bit more intuitive then if it was there first attempt at a UI like this.

[Mechatrommer]

tonight fired up the UTG962 to test something. properly terminated the sweep trigger (sync) signal with  50 ohm and then i see a fast rise time more than my DS1054Z can see. so i verify with my SDA6000... its showing 963ps risetime (10-90%), thats a 300MHz+ bandwidth (0.35 / Tr)... this signal also verified my DS1054Z is nearly 200MHz BW (0.35 / 1.8ns = 194MHz) now i know. fwiw..
https://m.eet.com/media/1140862/19209-263113.pdf

[JEntwistle]

I just stumbled upon this waveform generator, and it seems perfect for my level of experience (beginner).      Has anyone checked for voltage leakage?  The Feeltech units have had well documented ungrounded connections.   I wouldn't expect this here, and I assume someone would have mentioned this already if it were an issue, but just wanted to check.

Thanks!

[Messtechniker]

None UNI-T UTG 96x currently available anywhere on the market. 
It seems there was one batch available in some non-European countries
at the beginning of this year. And then no further batch. 
Search hits became fewer and fewer as time went by.

[JEntwistle]

Yes, I have not seen the 962 anywhere. I will have to settle for the 932.

[ataradov]

Has anyone checked for voltage leakage?  The Feeltech units have had well documented ungrounded connections.

Leakage from where to where?

The unit takes external 5V DC supply, so it is fully isolated from mains.

[JEntwistle]

Ah, you are right.  I mixed up the situation.  This article explains the issue:  https://chinese-electronics-products-tested.blogspot.com/p/fy3200s-function-generator-tested.html

So with external DC, should not apply.

Thanks for the help.

[Electro Fan]

Having a test equipment addiction is difficult when you don't have a lot of room.  The solution, only collect small adorable test equipment.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-628-tektronix-213-vintage-portable-oscilloscope-teardown/msg467160/#msg467160

[Messtechniker]

Yes, I have not seen the 962 anywhere. I will have to settle for the 932.

The 932 is also nowhere available.

[JEntwistle]

It is still on Ali Express.   Maybe not available to ship to your country?

[Mechatrommer]

the Original Link is not available anymore i've updated it available here ymmv...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000418660874.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.202a530e6QW8S4&algo_pvid=429f3531-dfec-4eaf-8706-b7e7a29e44e0&algo_expid=429f3531-dfec-4eaf-8706-b7e7a29e44e0-0&btsid=0ab6f82c15856056579587805e5121&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

Has anyone checked for voltage leakage?

as ataradov mentioned, leakage is not an issue. in fact i've probed the signal output without connecting the gnd pin, the signal is floating riding on some attenuated mains level leaked from my bench i guess. it proved this as free floating. once the gnd pin connected, everything is fine.

[ataradov]

the Original Link is not available anymore i've updated it available here ymmv...

Still only shows UTG932E as available.

[Mechatrommer]

maybe interested buyers can contact and clarify with seller (UNI-T) since the title also includes UT962 (194 pieces) available, when clicking on UT932, 46 pieces available.

[JEntwistle]

Thank you both Mechatrommer and ataradov for answering my kind of dumb question (let's call it newbie instead?).

Strangely, the product I ordered from the Uni-T stores is no longer available.  I will have to see if the order fulfills.  I did find a few other sellers:

932:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000161613843.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.652f33b7y0tOs0&algo_pvid=0b94f032-c224-4aa7-8c14-e98f1129ba5d&algo_expid=0b94f032-c224-4aa7-8c14-e98f1129ba5d-0&btsid=0ab6fb8315856633926187450ef75b&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

962 if you want to pay exorbitant prices:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000703442149.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7d015adbeLS6FT&algo_pvid=95bf2620-7399-40b5-a316-29b9a4c8085c&algo_expid=95bf2620-7399-40b5-a316-29b9a4c8085c-0&btsid=0ab6fa7b15856635215657301e6629&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

[Mechatrommer]

962 if you want to pay exorbitant prices:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000703442149.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7d015adbeLS6FT&algo_pvid=95bf2620-7399-40b5-a316-29b9a4c8085c&algo_expid=95bf2620-7399-40b5-a316-29b9a4c8085c-0&btsid=0ab6fa7b15856635215657301e6629&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

the price is doubled now its not so tempting already. it was about the original price in OP but 40% discounted. edit: the second link i updated in OP now N/A something is going on right now. maybe we should wait until it settled down.

[JEntwistle]

Quick update in case anyone is interested in these.   The Uni-T store confirmed to me that the 962 is out of stock.  My 932 has shipped.   

Updated link.  Only 5 left (2 EU, 2 US, 1 UK plug):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000418660874.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.573a1ff2P3lz01&algo_pvid=b5c0b5a8-5444-4bb9-8d6d-4e16e0069a31&algo_expid=b5c0b5a8-5444-4bb9-8d6d-4e16e0069a31-0&btsid=0ab6f82415857496282737280e1b0a&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

[KungFuJosh]

In case anybody is interested, there's more links for these at the "discounted" price: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000373256414.html

If you look at the sellers in the links in this thread, they're all some form of pretending to be UNI-T. I don't know if any or all of them are actually UNI-T selling this stuff. Maybe the "Official" one is, because it says official. 

"UNI-T Official Store"
"UNI-T Factory Tools Store"
"UNI-T Speciality Store" (lol @ speciality)
Etc...

Since I'm impatient, and don't need even 30M, I'm just going to order the 932 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0819W89DH/

Thanks,
Josh

[KungFuJosh]

The UTG932E arrived today. I love how small it is. The Siglent SDG2042X I previously tried out was great, but it was huge and expensive, so I returned it. This thing is small and fairly well priced. Build quality, and signal quality were all good. I tried different signal types, different termination simultaneously, and it was all great (except for my learning curve where I made mistakes in the setup, and then fixed it lol).

You can see how small it is compared to my attenuator or scope:


The signal was pretty clean too:




I dig it. It works well.

Thanks,
Josh

[Messtechniker]

What's the software like?
Is there any documentation of a command list?

[KungFuJosh]

What's the software like?
Is there any documentation of a command list?

If I ever try it, I'll let you know. I'm sure somebody will beat me to it though.

99% of what I'm going to use this for is feeding 1K sine waves into guitar amps or microphones. My main desire for this was the screen showing the amplitude, and the small size. Both are great. Amplitude is accurate, as is the frequency.

[v.stefa]

What's the software like?
Is there any documentation of a command list?

Hello,

software and additional documentation is only available in the CD that comes with the UTG-962. I didn't find any similar software on the UNI-T web site.
Inside the CD you can find the USB and VISA 5.4 drivers. Once you install it you can access the device using a program called DeviceManager.
Through the DeviceManager you can execute a WaveFormEditor and a VirtualControlPanel. The first one is a nice/useful addition while the second one is no-sense program because it has no additional feature in respect with the front panel of the UTG962.
I am totally newbie with such devices and I am interested in finding a way to command/program the UTG (before I buy a Siglent SDG1104x-E oscilloscope). I would be glad if you could suggest me the correct way to have access to the device and try to send command to it (a link or other online resorurces will be fine).

Thank you very much
Enzo   

[Mechatrommer]

software and additional documentation is only available in the CD that comes with the UTG-962. I didn't find any similar software on the UNI-T web site.

interesting. i dont remember mine come with a CD. can you post the zipped file here? the one i downloaded is chinese version from https://www.uni-trend.com.cn/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=416&id=741 (4th or 5th column at bottom menu) and i cant understand a thing in the SW GUI (chinese characters). there is no downloadable SW yet from their english version website https://www.uni-trend.com/html/product/NewProducts/UTG900E%20Series/UTG962E.html

[v.stefa]

File size is very big. I uploaded it on my dropbox.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iufok0nz8g9lvcg/UNIT-UTG962.rar?dl=0

Regards
Enzo

[Mechatrommer]

thanks Enzo. hopefully there are something to play with later...

[Johnny B Good]

Has anyone checked for voltage leakage?  The Feeltech units have had well documented ungrounded connections.

Leakage from where to where?

The unit takes external 5V DC supply, so it is fully isolated from mains.

 Only by as much as the 1nF Y class capacitor (typically used in all 5 to 10 W rated EMC compliant class II smpsu based wallwarts) keeps it isolated from half live mains voltage. 

 If you run it off a power bank from its USB output charging port, that'll give you the isolation you crave, otherwise forget it when using a cheap universal mains voltage wallwart with its half mains live 'touch voltage (1.6M ohm impedance at 50Hz connection to half of whatever your local supply voltage happens to be.

 The only virtue to using an external plug in 5vdc power source is that you can at least elect to use an earth protected 5v mains psu alternative to the now ubiquitous cheap commodity wallwart. The only issue with such earthed supplies is that the common ground return may also be connected to the protective earth pin which introduces unwanted mains earth loop noise and interference to any DUTs.

 A neat way to achieve the superb fix to this issue on the FY6600 (and its successors) which killed off this unwanted touch voltage without committing the sin of introducing the mains earth loop issue by the Feeltech idiots' spiteful fix to all the complaints that had been made by their FY6600 owners over this ESD hazard to DUTs is to obtain a suitable stout plastic project box, fit it with an IEC C14 mains socket, crack open a cheap wallwart to transplant its guts into said box and wire a 4k7 half watt or so resistor between the zero volt terminal on the DC output and the protective earth pin of the C14 socket.

 You can also embellish this side project with a mains indicator lamp (LED and a resistor across the 5v rail) and fuse according to taste but whatever the case, you will now be the proud possessor of a supply with less than 100mVAC leakage on its output with respect to ground on 240vac supplies without that troublesome low impedance ground loop to allow the free flow of unwanted interference (including unwanted random DC offsets) in either direction - that 4k7 resistor will attenuate such interference by some 40 to 60 dB or so.

 For those of a nervous disposition when it comes to cracking cheap 5v 1A wallwarts open to extract the smpsu board and wire it into a project case as described, there is a more disposable way to use the project box by adding a C14 socket as before along with a mains outlet socket and a DC jack socket (or three to widen your options) to plug in whatever 5v wallwart comes to hand for the job (swift swap out if the wallwart dies unexpectedly). You can either use another DC jack or else a suitably plug ended captive DC lead to match the DC jack of your cheap FG - your choice. The final task after wiring the C14 to the mains outlet socket is to connect that 4k7 resistor between the C14's PE tag and the zero volt connection of the DC output on the DC jack socket(s).

 The only downside to this solution is that the smpsu board remains confined by its original unventilated plastic housing (unventilated to minimise the risk of accidental liquid ingress). Plastic is famous for its poor thermal conductivity so that smpsu pcb has to tolerate very high temperature operation, high efficiency notwithstanding.

 Extracting the wallwart's cct board as per the first solution does offer the benefit of much cooler operation simply by virtue of the much larger surface area of the plastic project box used. An even cooler solution is to use a metal project box but you need to take more care in mounting the PCB and properly connecting the metal case to the C14's PE tag whist making sure the only connection between this earth and the zero volt DC output connection is via the 4k7 resistor.

 Anyway, there you have it. A few suggestions on how to eliminate the unwanted half live mains voltage ESD hazard to your DUTs when using such cheap "Toy FGs" 

JBG

[Dd]

DriverPack_Libusb\DriverApp.exe
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/08f2d4d6092c5168b55651980662578c735fbcfcb1135e2f89699dce67cd8fc2/detection

VISA Driver 5.4/SupportFiles folder
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/0a4bf0cab661c8d119674449d31348bf1787c977d7ae6f957369257a2e667ad5/detection

Devices Manager Installer.exe
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/c9b816ca79f672c5823cc76ad762d9703d863f53a371d181daa724bc56f27567/detection

[v.stefa]

Hi,
thank you for the warning, it wasn't my intention to do it.
I am using Avira as well and it gives the same alert when I scan the file on the CD-ROM.
I am removing the share on the dropbox file unless I'll solve the issue,

Regards
Enzo

[Dd]

v.stefa
Don't worry, your drivers image is near identical to what Uni-t shares on their website.
https://www.uni-trend.com/uploadfile/cloud/Software/Instrument-software/UTG900E%20software.rar
It doesn't mean that the official Uni-t drivers are clean from the viruses.

---

I was able to unpack Devices Manager Installer.exe, here is all contents of the installer for your inspection
https://easyupload.io/5bk5mn 30 days remaining
https://mega.nz/file/lnxyhSoS#iiYQhTb1ZJCcMvZ7f9O0h2l3KMa1LJCeYTKS8bri3VY alternative hoster


Another potentially infected files
\Devices Manager Installer\D375B41\dso\DSO Monitor Controller.exe
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/dd365e21e4c2fc7b10f4b1604037900ca01ff9581fc4a35c2ba2c81b7fdffb8f/detection

---

It seems "DriverPack_Libusb" and "VISA Driver 5.4" folders from "UTG900E software.rar" are just dummy folders and placed there just for legal reasons.
The real/used ones are sitting inside "Devices Manager Installer.exe"
"VISA Driver 5.4" =>
\Devices Manager Installer\Products <- Suspicious
\Devices Manager Installer\SupportFiles
\Devices Manager Installer\license

"DriverPack_Libusb" =>
\Devices Manager Installer\OS32Bit
\Devices Manager Installer\OS64Bit
\Devices Manager Installer\DriverApp.exe <- Suspicious
---

The next steps I am working on - contact other antivirus labs regarding DriverApp.exe and DSO Monitor Controller.exe

---

Update: Avira lab confirmed false positive for DriverApp.exe
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/9821f0615d185c2c5d6feaf9b1f2b348df980ccb0aa967375890ef7b81ddd1c3/detection

Besides opening a ticket with Avira I've also submitted file samples to Bitdefender, McAfee, Kaspersky, Emsisoft, DrWeb, Eset.
It seems they tend to mark these files as safe. The fresh VirusTotal scans gives far less alerts than it was one week ago.

I've yet to put my hands on the UTG932E version I've ordered from these guys on Ali. I hope to get most alerts from main AV companies resolved before I get the package from the post office. $105.80 - $3.90 coupon = $101.90, so the price is ok vs feeltech units.

[Dd]

Did you have any luck uploading arbitrary wave to this device?
I can't move beyond this screen
"Looking for device...
Number of devices found:0"

[Mechatrommer]

Same here.. its a joke.

[ataradov]

I just assume that manufacturer software is broken, so as far as I'm concerned it just does not exist. So far this has served me well.

[Dd]

I have had a chat with Uni-T sales rep from Ali shop I bought device from.
He has forwarded my messages and screenshots to their engineer back and forth. I ought to say the store support was really friendly.
There were some difficulties from automatic chat translations from Chinese. Anyway he's (or she?) been quite helpful, and kept bugging the engineer until I got a successful result, especially when I promised to post a device feedback on Ali and Amazon, heh.
And after few reinstalls and trials it seems I was able to upload waveform files to the unit.

My current config is a Chinese software version.
Now I'll try to move back to English s/w and make a few screenshots for the forum. Let's hope it works after another shuffling.

[Mechatrommer]

can you share? we didnt pursue as its not critical, i only use sine and sweep so far. it works well so far as ataradov said. but capable to upload our own arbitrary data will be bonus...

[Dd]

Below are temporary screenshots in Chinese. This is just a draft
Update: English screenshots attached

0. Disconnect the device from PC

1. Run the black Uni-T device manager

2. Plug the device to PC USB 2.0 port.
Wait for the device to show up under the USB folder.

3. Right click on the device string UTG900 (0x0834:0x6656:129)

4. Choose the top option from the dropdown menu
 - "RUN Virtual Control Panel"

5. The SG Virtual Control Panel is running now.

6. Right mouse click on the virtual device screen. Choose the second option from the dropdown menu.
 - "Send ARB file"


7. You'll get the mini-window popped over the virtual unit mockup. Press the [...] button and choose the file you prepared and saved previously from an arbitrary wave editor. That was "waveform3.bsv" in my case.

Push the bottom right "Load" button and voilà!

Try to avoid USB 3.0 ports until you get everything up and running on USB 2.0. I'm not sure yet regaring this requirement.
Update: USB 3.0 was a possible culprit for some of the problems arisen during this misadventures.
Two of my eldery notebook ports are provided by separate chip from Renesas Electronics and it seems the connection to the Uni-T was quite unstable on these ports. That could be just UniT-Renesas compatibility (or drivers) issues only and not USB 3.0 in general. The system is Windows 7 Professional.

[Dd]

Another surprise, the data uploaded is not persistent. No waveforms survives over power off.
There were something resembling a possible solution in Waveform editor "Down file" top menu, but that's just failed to work with this generator.

Also I can't figure out how to load wave file in any slot but the first.

[Mechatrommer]

at least it can output user data for a while during turned on life. maybe you can ask them again on how to save in user ROM so it can survive power off. thanks for your tips.

[Dd]

Yes I'll try to contact them tomorrow. It's too late there in China right now.

I'd prefer to write some of my custom waveforms to internal slots in place of their wave samples.
I hope someone to hack the firmware or internal storage one day.

It was not so smart idea to equip this device with 4k points storage for 14 bit dac. 2¹⁴ = 16384 hence 16k points is a bare minimum for a "square pixels". To be honest it appears to be a marketing decision with no technical reason behind it. Just to avoid cannibalization of next level generators segment.

Next day update: I got an answer from them in Chinese that storing user-defined waveform in non-volatile memory is not possible.
And it looks like the engineer from whom the messages are forwarded is a UniT store tech guy, not a device developer. I am not sure though. It might be a good idea to get in touch with factory engineers, if possible at all.

[Yuriy V.]

LibUSB installation files mismach (W7 x64 SP1 Pro). Can't run DPInst64. Anybody can hel me?

[Dd]

I've the same Windows version with all available updates installed till the end of Win7 support.
https://www.uni-trend.com/uploadfile/cloud/Software/Instrument-software/UTG900E%20software.rar
https://mega.nz/file/lnxyhSoS#iiYQhTb1ZJCcMvZ7f9O0h2l3KMa1LJCeYTKS8bri3VY all components extracted from installer package.
I do not see any problems with running the DPInst64.exe file separately from the package. Fresh screenshot in attachment.

You may also try to use LibUSB from original source https://sourceforge.net/projects/libusb-win32/files/libusb-win32-releases/
The library version in the Uni-T package is 1.2.4.0
Hardware id is VID_6656&PID_0834 if required.

[Labrat101]

Hi all
Does any one know if there is a calibration mode (hidden menu ) on the UTG962?

 the only bad thing I have found with the UTG962 is the rise time is limited to 15ns
 so even though they say it has a square wave up to 20Mhz it starts showing a trapezium
 over about 3Mhz and the display on the UTG shows the same angling of the sides . /`\

 Other than this it has some really nice features and clean wave forms .
But I some how would like to know if it has a hidden menu that allows to adjust the frequency error.

 

[Mechatrommer]

i doubt there is hidden menu, esp to calibrate square wave (rise time) the menu system is very simple, not much extra options. you may compare your square wave with what is posted at reply 14 and 15... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-utg932utg962-200msas-function-arbitrary-waveform-generator-220394/msg2845722/#msg2845722 if you really need fast rise time, you may want to enable synch output and play with signal frequency to get fast rise time square wave, or build yourself a fast risetime edge circuit using fast comparator or logic IC feed from the AWG, ymmv.

[Labrat101]

i doubt there is hidden menu, esp to calibrate square wave (rise time) the menu system is very simple, not much extra options. you may compare your square wave with what is posted at reply 14 and 15... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-utg932utg962-200msas-function-arbitrary-waveform-generator-220394/msg2845722/#msg2845722 if you really need fast rise time, you may want to enable synch output and play with signal frequency to get fast rise time square wave, or build yourself a fast risetime edge circuit using fast comparator or logic IC feed from the AWG, ymmv.

Thanks .
My square waves are the same . There is a update function . It was only that most have a way to calibrate the frequency
@ 10Mhz or another mid point .
 But other than that as you said the menu's are very easy to navigate . It works out the Box and has some very nice features.

All the best
 

[W3AXL]

I grabbed the UTG962 today as well. Came out to 145USD after tax and with a $4 coupon. I'm excited to get my hands on it, as it seems a pretty big step above the Feeltech units I was originally considering. I've already got an RF signal generator, but I wanted an inexpensive function gen for arb waveforms to complement that for lower-frequency work. Hopefully this fits the bill well. Plus, it's small, and with limited bench space that's important.

Looks like it'll be a month or so for it to get here from China.

[ledtester]

Hi everyone,

Some Aliexpress listings are selling a "UTG962E"  vs "UTG962". Is there any difference?

[ataradov]

Some Aliexpress listings are selling a "UTG962E"  vs "UTG962". Is there any difference?

The actual unit I have does not have "E" on the label. But if you look at the Uni-T site, the only model they list is the "E" one.

I see no specs difference.

So I guess "E" is basically the version they decided to release for wide markets. It is possible that they have more global certifications. The original version was China-only with no documentation in English. And it was not even listed on the English version of the site.

I don't think there is any functional difference.

[Dd]

I guess it's all the same.

axel
The shop I bought my gen from for $105.8 now set the price point around $165
In the same time there are some other shops on Ali that didn't push the prices yet
$112.99 for UTG932 plus two coupons (US $6.00 off per US $65.00) (US $4.00 off on US $50.00)

[Labrat101]

Hi everyone,

Some Aliexpress listings are selling a "UTG962E"  vs "UTG962". Is there any difference?

No , Differance   . The E as far as I know was published last December but there does not seem to be
 any listing on the official UNI-T site . Just use the official Factory site of uni-t on ali .
  Correction .. Sorry There was something in one of the manuals and it put an E after the number . But Not on the the unit itself maybe
 a translation thing ..  Maybe some one will shoot me down on this . I also saw it . and just stayed with the official site.

 I put the Ali link few blogs up .

  @ axel.
  I think you will be very happy with it . I just love my one . there is a slight learning curve . as it has many cool features .
  I would download the manual from uni-trend.com   ..It's about 30 or so pages .  help pass the time  .
  So you can dive straight in and enjoy it when it arrives .

[Mechatrommer]

i cant remember who told me whether a member here (earlier post?) or a message from seller/uni-t that the fact is "E" model is exactly same as non "E" model, except "E" model is for international (non-chinese) market. i still dont know whats the logic but i remember thats the fact. you can google in their website the non "E" but its all chinese letters.

but I wanted an inexpensive function gen for arb waveforms to complement that for lower-frequency work.

i hope you will not get dissapointed with your buy if you are thinking high about "arb" feature. it has typical built-in arb function but if you want to make your own, there's a little bit of works to do (read earlier posts) and cant be saved when the device is turned off. we dont have issue as we dont really need very specific arb function, i guess the typical built-in like pulse will be enough one day ymmv.

[Dd]

I also ordered Analog Discovery 2 osc/arb gen. "Two-channel arbitrary waveform generator (±5V, 14-bit, 100MS/s, 12MHz+ bandwidth)". It's a PC-only device, no standalone mode.
https://store.digilentinc.com/waveforms-download-only/ free software download with device emulator.
And the app is a way better than any other software I am aware of, including Rigol, Unit, Agilent etc.

[Archades]

How long do they usually take to get to Australia? Mine's been sent "by airline" since the 15th. I've had my surgery and keen to play with it in a week or two. Original order 29th sept. Hoping it's here within a week or 2.

[maximvs]

My only problem here is that I cannot use an external 10MHz reference for this unit and I don't see how I can add one myself (from the pictures).

[Dd]

They didn't seem to promise synchronization input.

11.11 Ali sale - UTG932E 30MHz for $98.83

[ataradov]

11.11 Ali sale

This is exact same price as it was before the sale.

UTG962 now $122.79, I paid $121.65 on Nov. 30 2019.

[Labrat101]

They didn't seem to promise synchronization input.

11.11 Ali sale - UTG932E 30MHz for $98.83

That seems to be only on its big brother . Would have been nice if it did.
 other than that it works very well

[Mechatrommer]

for synchronization and ext ref, maybe we can start from the main clock, i guess its the black box shown in arrow (mems oscillator?)

[Dd]

$98.83 sale price
- $3 store coupon
Promo Code - US $3.55
Total US $92.28

--Wrong reference removed--

And it might be even lower with other codes. I just bought another $91 item for $76. Promo code plus store coupons.

[ataradov]

You are comparing 932 and 962.

And you are not factoring in the tax. Obviously it won't apply to all countries, but you still can't use that $145 as a reference.

[Dd]

Yes, my bad. They listed 962 for $124.90 but they don't have it in stock.

Here is 962 model in stock for $122.79
Orange ($3 for $65) coupon from the item page and 1111SALE $1 coupon = US $118.79

Anyway, I'm looking through the wish list to find more items to use 11.11 codes and discounts as much as possible.
I don't need another 932 at the moment so I am looking at some audio stuff in the same price league.

[Shiv]

Hi all, I´m buying this generator.

Did sombody make the battery mod?

I mean: internal, protected and with integrated charging system, not just plug a battery with a 5V DC regulator in DC input.


I´m searching for battery management boards like arduino shields and I don´t find it for 2 A output. only 1A rated...

[Dd]

Shiv
May be this is what are you looking for? 2A, 4.2V
_{Note: Use Ali Standard Shipping only, not economy or saver.}

[Shiv]

Shiv
May be this is what are you looking for? 2A, 4.2V
_{Note: Use Ali Standard Shipping only, not economy or saver.}

Is a good approach, but I think not.


This one is only a charge regulator, I mean:
This gets the DC input and convert it to battery charge (constant current)
Protects the battery for overload, overheat and overcurrent (short)


But it hasn´t:
DC battery ouput regulator (but it could be added)
discharge protection circuitry (if below 3V shutoff or warning)
DC input detector (to switch between external or battery)
The switch itself

EDIT: my bad
I´m reading and I think this thing does it all.

Thank you so much

[Mechatrommer]

Did sombody make the battery mod?
I mean: internal, protected and with integrated charging system, not just plug a battery with a 5V DC regulator in DC input.
I´m searching for battery management boards like arduino shields and I don´t find it for 2 A output. only 1A rated...

the cheap $10 china power bank for smartphone charging is readily available, you only need to mod connector to the FG unit or the smartphone USB charging cable. i have few of them came free with smartphone purchases. you can get a bit descent pack with power percentage LCD display, multiple 2A/1A ports with everything protection and charging that you want for just tiny like $5-10 addition. i and wife got this type with LCD display Pineng brand many years ago and still working now to my surprise considering the average li-on batteries operating life (with flashlight built-in too ), i believe these packs can power the UTG unit for many minutes, if not hours. i cant count how many power banks i have some of them may got thrown away or taken by the kids already.

[Shiv]

Did sombody make the battery mod?
I mean: internal, protected and with integrated charging system, not just plug a battery with a 5V DC regulator in DC input.
I´m searching for battery management boards like arduino shields and I don´t find it for 2 A output. only 1A rated...

the cheap $10 china power bank for smartphone charging is readily available, you only need to mod connector to the FG unit or the smartphone USB charging cable. i have few of them came free with smartphone purchases. you can get a bit descent pack with power percentage LCD display, multiple 2A/1A ports with everything protection and charging that you want for just tiny like $5-10 addition. i and wife got this type with LCD display Pineng brand many years ago and still working now to my surprise considering the average li-on batteries operating life (with flashlight built-in too ), i believe these packs can power the UTG unit for many minutes, if not hours. i cant count how many power banks i have some of them may got thrown away or taken by the kids already.

Thanks!!

That was my first search (got 3 or 4 of this), but I saw UTG input is 2A rated and all powerbank board I saw was only 1A rated and that, even if the generator powers, wouldn´t charge the lipo.

For battery packs, I ´ll use some cells recycled from drones (1500 -2000 mAh LIPO 1s to 4s)

[mnementh]

Considering these are right now within a few dollars of the FY6x00, all at around US$100 (the days of the $40 FY6600 are long gone), and only aboot $75 less than the PSG8090 even with "Black Friday" sales, is the PSG8090 now the best bang/buck? 

I like the form factor of the UTG 9x2, as it would fit under my scope with the bail down (pretty sure that's why these were made this way); but it is pretty hard to make even a ballpark evaluation of the 3 families of "Chinesium Cheapies", except that the FY6900 seems to be pretty roundly disliked as a downgrade from previous versions. 

One thing that would make my decision easier... can these be easily modded with an external +/-15V supply? I mean, without just munging the eff out of the board...? And now the diff between the 932 and 962 is more like $20-25; have we successfully hacked a 932 to a 962?

mnem
 

[Mechatrommer]

One thing that would make my decision easier... can these be easily modded with an external +/-15V supply?

for what? UTG9x2 is powered from 5V wallwart and has internal +/-15V supply for output.

[mnementh]

Aware it has DC-DC converter on mainboard, and ewwwwwww...

Also, I have a pretty high-quality +/-15V PSU just lying here, so...

Any opinions on the diff between the 932 & 962 vs the current diff in cost?

mnem
 

[Mechatrommer]

Aware it has DC-DC converter on mainboard, and ewwwwwww...
Also, I have a pretty high-quality +/-15V PSU just lying here, so...

so you can always rip away the internal +/-15V DC-DC and put your quality PSU in.

Any opinions on the diff between the 932 & 962 vs the current diff in cost?

932 can go 30MHz, 962 can go 60MHz. am i re-stating the datasheet? if you ask me difference 9x2 vs FY6*00, 9x2 has numeric keyboard FY6*00 got none

[mnementh]

Aww, come on man... now yer just pullin' the TinkerDwagon's tail.

I was wondering if we know whether there are any material differences between the 932 & 962, and if anyone had hacked a 932 into a 962? At a price difference of now ~US$25, seems it might be worth a certain, minimal amount of assache. As long as it's not too much. 

I guess I hadn't read through this thread like I thought; I just saw yer post with this pic:



Looks like I can just desolder L8, SD1 & SD2 and use the freed-up pads to attach for +/- rails. I have 5VSTBY on my PSU as well, so could put in a rocker switch or just plug it all into a outlet strip.

mnem
hmmmm....

[Mechatrommer]

i'm not sure why you want to screw a perfectly fine unit. i cant make further suggestion on that, its plain "dangerous" and not worth our effort. one of reason we bought this instead of cheaper FY* is we dont want to deal with modding it, we just want a working unit OOB. anyway, you saw the board and you can plan your strategy from there. is it worth a risk of hacking and then bricking FW just to save $25? its not for me, just buy the 962 if you need extra BW. we will be glad if you can come up with some sort of hack improvement to it, its just its not worth my time atm.

[mnementh]

Yeah, I hear that. Part of why I was on the fence between this and the PSG9080 at ~US$175. Of course, then you are in "add another $100 and you're into a DG811" territory, and so on...

I guess then... if you had to buy one sometime soon and knowing the 9x2 as you've used it awhile, would you buy it again or would you hold off and wait for more intel to develop on the PSG9080?

mnem
 

[ataradov]

I guess then... if you had to buy one sometime soon and knowing the 9x2 as you've used it awhile, would you buy it again or would you hold off and wait for more intel to develop on the PSG9080?

I would absolutely buy it again. But for me it is a secondary unit, and I value bench real estate and noise more than performance for most uses.

Same with the oscilloscope. My primary scope at the moment is Owon SDS1102. Probably not the greatest if you go by pure performance numbers or even bang/buck numbers. But for me it provides value as it is fan-less, so quiet, and it is very slim, so does not take up space.

And if for 1% of uses I need more performance from the scope or from a signal generator, I'll bring out the real deal.

So it all depends on your use. If you use your equipment to 100% of the capabilities, then going for the most capable device makes sense. But I doubt many people actually do that.

And I'm in the same boat for modding - the price and price difference are low enough for me to not really care to spend any time on that.

[Labrat101]

I have the UTG962 . which just works fine out the box .
After Binning my last FY68 which was the biggest waste of time & money
trying to mod it . To just get it to work within any accurate spec's . .
962 is accurate and all function work OOB . So modding it .
Would be like buying a new BMW and taking it apart to see if you could run it off 24 volt battery .The only Mod that I could possibly think of. would to add an external Ref socket for  GPSDO . As it stands at the moment its less than 30ppm which is OK.Also it comes with a full warranty from Uni Trend . So it can be returned to any of there agents for repair or replacement .
 I would if i was you just pay the extra $20 and sleep well at Knights .
  Killing the dragon is no fun .. Saving the Damsel in distress well I will leave that  to ones own Imagination 
  RNS

[JamesLynton]

Received a UTG962 today, can confirm it performs remarkably well for something so compact & affordable.
Build quality and ui is also quite nice.

Some quick niggles I noticed though:
The output voltage of the AWG is entirely dependent on the power supply feeding it - if it is to be accurate (in lower ranges) it needs to be exactly 5V - Linear regulation probably a good idea. Also expectedly, due to slew factors, the crest voltage drops off a little at higher frequencies a little bit, but planning to account for that in this latter instance should be expected in this price category.

The apparent lack of a means to SAVE AWG configurations and recall them quickly. Dear lord that is irritating, however they do dedicate that entire menu to just recalling factory configuration state. Bah. Well, I contacted them directly via website supplied support email and politely asked for this essential feature to be implemented; I'm not expecting much to get done.. but we'll see, I like to be surprised in that regard.
If this bugs you too and otherwise haven't found out how to do it either, mind popping a feature request to them as well ? ta.


That aside, good lord UNI-T customer service on AliExpress atm *good lord*...
Useless would be a bit polite as of early Nov 2020, Kind of left me feeling like I should go with 3rd party sellers if I need their products again, rather than what I understand to be their official store (https://unit.aliexpress.com/store/3095007).

First, they managed to ignore my order from Spain to ship to UK for weeks, when they did respond the person dealing with it didn't seem to recognise my address/post code as valid, which I've never had a problem with. This matter was dealt with politely. Then it became 'oh we can't ship from there now, you've left the EU (new one to me (and no, I didn't vote that way either; as an aside)) - Thing is, as far as trade is concerned, that doesn't potentially affect that until the beginning of 2021 (still technically in trading block until then); no issues with anyone else shipping within the EU in this timeframe.
So from there it was eventually shipped from China, after nudging them again asking what was going on. This went out by a service that incurred customs duty charges (via DPEX express). Following that, not much happened for a while and only found out it was stuck in customs when I checked the tracking number & found out it had been there for 5 days, and I'd not heard a peep on the matter from anyone. According to the shipping company (after digging deep to get their contact details) they had not been provided with my contact details (email or phone no) by the shipper (nor where they responding to their requests for them either), and thats apparently why I hadn't heard from DPEX, still.. they could of sent a letter ? (shrugs).
In any case was able to iron out the issue dealing with the couriers directly on phone, however less than impressed with UNI-T's representatives handling of the matter, it was an utter shambles that had me 0 days away from incurring a £10 a day storage charge, and about a week away from the goods being destroyed without (otherwise potentially) knowing about the matter at all.

So yes, if dealing with UNI-T directly on the likes of AliExpress, keep a close eye on those orders, they might cock things up massively.

[Dd]

Also you could find several stores with "official" or "flagship" any similar word in the title. It means nothing at Aliexpress.
It's a big street marketplace so don't expect anything near tequipment or batronix service. Ali is about prices, not service.
We couldn't imagine such a device for one hundred dollars at pre-Ali times. There is no room for English speaking support staff salary in these prices.

[Labrat101]

Hi , I also had trouble with DHL.
This is the real supplier outlet and they replied to me within hours . ( Remembering the time difference )
https://unit.aliexpress.com/store/3095007?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000002.2.2a6468c8cgv5Nh
This is the shipping outlet of UNI-T

 DHL has many problems when I ordered my one about 4 months ago DHL held it in a truck for 10 days .
I used Ali messenger and I request a recall from DHL and to send it via Fed-ex . which they did. And sent another one out.
which I got within 10 days.   . This is the third time I have had trouble with DHL they are the worst as they use other carriers.

 BTW the Save . 962 if you turn it off the last setting will be saved.  when turned back on again . well my one does .

Enjoy 

[ataradov]

This is the third time I have had trouble with DHL they are the worst as they use other carriers.

This is location dependent, so use whatever carrier works best in your area. In my case DHL is the most reliable carrier.

[Labrat101]

This is the third time I have had trouble with DHL they are the worst as they use other carriers.

This is location dependent, so use whatever carrier works best in your area. In my case DHL is the most reliable carrier.

Not really in my case it never left china and never got to the main distributor . UNI-T sent it out DHL collected and after 10 days
never got processed .
I had the same thing with DHL UK they lost a package at the airport .    It turned up 3 months later . I had already  got a refunded
and a resend via another Currier within 7 days .
 DHL has the worst track history and the best delay system .

[Dd]

932 also saves the settings on shutdown, the missed feature is persistent memory for "external" waveforms

[Mechatrommer]

This is the third time I have had trouble with DHL they are the worst as they use other carriers.

This is location dependent, so use whatever carrier works best in your area. In my case DHL is the most reliable carrier.

Not really in my case it never left china and never got to the main distributor . UNI-T sent it out DHL collected and after 10 days
never got processed .
I had the same thing with DHL UK they lost a package at the airport .    It turned up 3 months later . I had already  got a refunded
and a resend via another Currier within 7 days .
 DHL has the worst track history and the best delay system .

and again i guess its location dependent. source DHL will need green light from last mile deliverer in order to proceed putting the item in the transportation line. or maybe they will need certain mass of parcels to economically send out to a particular location by plane. or just maybe... they cant figure out what your flag is from this forum... for prestigous couriers to my place, i can pick Fedex, UPS or DHL. i usually prefer DHL.

[JamesLynton]

On saves, I could do with being able to recall setups quickly for different jobs (outside of creating an externally imported waveform) ..it would save the chore of recreating the synthesised setup each time for complex do dads. Its curious that its missing.

Onto something else from me,
Did some quick and dirty ballpark testing of this unit out of curiosity & heres the results:


UNI-T UTG962 noise floor analysis with Siglent SDS1204X-E scope - Testing different power source influences.

Quick Conclusion: Powering the UTG with a (merely average) usb power bank can make a dramatic difference to signal noise levels. Also, the output from the UTG is quite unexpectedly & remarkably clean when given a decent power supply. So much so, its own inherent noise is frequently barely above that of the oscilloscope.



Siglent SDS1204X-E scope Baseline Details:
Scope Channel - Unplugged.
        - (200MHz BW) 0.12mV RMS - 0.80mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  0.10mV RMS - 0.40mV Pk2Pk 
Scope Channel - 50 Ohms direct terminated.
        - (200MHz BW) 0.12mV RMS - 0.80mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  0.13mV RMS - 0.40mV Pk2Pk 
Scope Channel - CH3 Terminated into CH4 via scope lead.
        - (200MHz BW) 0.14mV RMS - 0.84mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  0.13mV RMS - 0.44mV Pk2Pk

Test Scope Setup Conclusions:
* Using a proper 50 Ohms bnc terminator actually slightly raises noise floor.
* 'properly' Terminated Scope lead shows that it introduces negligible noise.
Note: the Ground pin next to the calibration terminal is actually rather unacceptably noisy in the millivolt range.


UNI-T - UTG962 Test Setup Details:
* Test of fairly decent generic mains usb PSU and a fairly standard USB battery power bank as power sources.
* UTG connected to scope via supplied bnc to bnc cable.
* Test done by placing the signal generator into DC output mode & taking it thru the entire unipolar voltage range, with scope in AC coupled modes to establish noise levels present.
* Measurements taken at 1mV/Div and at 20ms (a 280ms sampling window).
* 20MHz & 200 MHz modes used to crudely establish extent of unwanted noise density in different ranges.
* Note: some very minor DC shift was observed whilst taking these measurements, I expect this was down to saturation quirks of the scopes AC decoupling stage, this was compensated for with offset.


Results for (non uni-t) reasonable quality mains powered USB adapter:
PSU - Channel OFF - Much Lower Noise than channel ON.
        - (200Mhz BW) 0.39mV RMS - 2.50mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20Mhz BW)  0.35mV RMS - 1.20mV Pk2Pk     
PSU - 0-560mV     - Significant noise floor rise upon switching channel ON.
        - (200Mhz BW) 0.41-0.43mV RMS - 8.50-9.00mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20Mhz BW)  0.37-0.40mV RMS - 5.80-6.50mV Pk2Pk     
PSU - 561mV-10V     - Slight to moderate rise in RMS noise floor.
        - (200Mhz BW) 0.45-1.25mV RMS - 9.00-9.00mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20Mhz BW)  0.40-0.85mV RMS - 6.50-6.50mV Pk2Pk     
PSU - Unplugged   - Slightly less noisy across the board than Channel OFF, worst at full bandwidth.
        - (200Mhz BW) 0.35mV RMS - 1.10mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20Mhz BW)  0.33mV RMS - 0.68mV Pk2Pk     

Results for iMuto USB Battery Power Bank:
USB - Channel OFF - Slightly lower noise than with Mains PSU, particularly below 20MHz.
        - (200Mhz BW) 0.31mV RMS - 2.00mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20Mhz BW)  0.29mV RMS - 0.80mV Pk2Pk     
USB - 0-560mV     - MUCH lower noise than PSU, though mainly in Peak to Peak noise.
        - (200Mhz BW) 0.35-0.40mV RMS - 2.20-2.20mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20Mhz BW)  0.32-0.39mV RMS - 1.00-1.00mV Pk2Pk     
USB - 561mV-10V     - MUCH lower noise than PSU, though mainly in Peak to Peak noise.
        - (200Mhz BW) 0.37-1.00mV RMS - 3.50-3.75mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20Mhz BW)  0.35-0.75mV RMS - 1.20-1.20mV Pk2Pk     
USB - Unplugged   - Same as previously (because of course
        - (200Mhz BW) 0.35mV RMS - 1.10mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20Mhz BW)  0.33mV RMS - 0.68mV Pk2Pk     


See middle section of below graph for just how much noise is reduced with a good power source, particularly when dealing with spurious, peaky noise.



Some of the screen grabs off the scope, Bottom trace is an unloaded channel shown for scale concerning noise levels.

PSU - Measured at 200MHZ bandwidth:

State - Channel OFF, Generator plugged in:


State - Channel ON, 0 Volts DC selected:


State - Channel ON, 10 Volts DC selected:



USB - Measured at 200MHZ bandwidth:

State - Channel OFF, Generator plugged in:


State - Channel ON, 0 Volts DC selected:


State - Channel ON, 10 Volts DC selected:




Bonus Bits - PSU and USB at 20MHz Bandwidth Limit:

USB - State - Channel ON, 0 Volts DC selected:

yum.

PSU - State - Channel ON, 0 Volts DC selected:

yuck.

Also, yeah ...wow, modern scopes  , and cheap ones too having sub millivolt noise on their front ends (0.10-0.80mV), at hundreds of Mhz ..that still blows my mind; and to think I thought the noise floor performance of my old, late 80's analog 150MHz Tek 2445a was pretty decent ..not by half, that had fuzz in the several millivolt range iirc.

[Labrat101]

I did notice that the power supplied had some noise . But my power supply was not as bad
 I also noticed that the supplied as it had no earth pin there was a small amount of leakage.
 as well . I use a ground wire to the neg shielding cured it . But as you did a very nice full
test .  Yes the Unit works better with a better 5v supply ,  its known that most of the battery
usb chargers with only 2 pin and without the ground earth are slightly noisy  .
 But the supplied one was better than some of the other china smp's .not by much.
As you quoted a decent 5v power supply is far better . I took my 5v from my computer
SMPS directly .  and not from a cheap charger .
 Nice test . over all it is a good unit and I found my one was very accurate .
 

[JamesLynton]

Thanks
I'll quick check it later with the supplied uni-t wall wart, though it didn't come with my regional plug connector plate. Will wack it in a shaver adapter and see how it does.
Maybe that in afew days. Not expecting miracles there, but maybe they did get it specced slightly better than the average one

[Dd]

I'm using Apple iPad 12W USB power adapter and I guess it's a good enough for the task and it's probably of better quality than wall wart from the Uni-t box.

[Labrat101]

Thanks
I'll quick check it later with the supplied uni-t wall wart, though it didn't come with my regional plug connector plate. Will wack it in a shaver adapter and see how it does.
Maybe that in afew days. Not expecting miracles there, but maybe they did get it specced slightly better than the average one

  Any of the SMPs even the the Laptop type if they don't have an earth .
 Measuring from Neg to mains earth will show some where between 45vac to 90vac. 
We have people coming in and saying that there Laptop has a funny ruff feeling.
The uni-t and others assume that the AWG will be connected directly to your Scope via
RG cable and relying on the scopes Earth . and not making a Ground Loop .
 So one option is to use 1 cable from AWG to a Spare input terminal of scope .
Not always practical depending what the DUT is.
 Or use an earth ground to the Wall Wart . best use a Good earthed power supply 
Edit . Remember these units draw quite a bit of power as well .I didn't measure current
but I guess its around 400ma + which can cause the USB plug to become warm .
 I prefer not to use the USB and connect via better connector .
Edit update the UTG 962 draws 810ma  @ 5v
The top is a snap on with 5 clips . slight pressure to both sides will release .

[JamesLynton]

Ah yup, that coupling curse, I remember laptops fuzzing, it was most unpleasant.

That power supply of theirs has more to it than I might of expected, seems not too terrible on the surface of it.

might as well make the standard supply setup here for the signal generator a battery and linear regulator. will be most curious to see if it can do better than a usb power bank with what I assume to be a boost switching converter in it.

The unit is already pretty close to the noise floor of the scope and other measuring apparatus, so i'm increasingly convinced that theres no merit to replacing the 5V to +/- 12V internal boost converter supply (as discussed elsewhere on here). So far, it seems to be introducing no noise (of the sort worth fussing about) of its own into the system.


Also, for people who really want to work with tiny signals in the millivolt (or less) amplitude range, might as well build an ultra low noise 'amplifier' to wack on the output that attenuates the full scale output into the used range. So far, cant see why anyone would need a cleaner signal than this thing produces, in most applications (higher frequencies being the only other metric you might want more of.. sometimes)

[Labrat101]

Just wondered . I assume you checked what your scope was reading without a connection.
As there is a natural floor noise . etc .  I guess you did . and minus the difference
 My scope has about 650uv of static floor.  (scopes voltages are not always that accurate on volts).

setting @ 1mv
TB @ 2ns
when adding the 962 set to DC volts setting @ 0v (scope)
DC volts setting @ 10v  1.312mv (scope)
scope read 0v  107uv  AC coupling . (edit typo)
scope Ac 800uv vRMS  peek det. minus floor 267uv = 533uv Vrms
also tried on my bench meter set for AC/DC  showed 0.008 v  on 0v & 10v (962 setting)
The bench meter has Isolated inputs  RG connector so it would not act as a ground for the 962
The test was done with the supplied UNI-T Power SMPS unit . No added grounding.
I reckon that's not bad there is some noise but on my HP CRT it was showing interference
RF from some where .
When a ground was added did remove some of the stray RF etc .

There are too many unknowns as everyone lives in different locations different mains layouts .
Lighting , wife's hair drier ,wifi and so on etc . Police tx are the worst ,

My home lab has good sockets connection and I tested the connections etc.
Led lighting is also noisy .
 For a cheap setup I don't think much improvement is required .
Faraday Cage .. Last resort if I get paranoid 

[JamesLynton]

On the scope unplugged stats, pulled this from the post; measurements taken at 1mv/20ms.
I use the wider sampling window to give somewhat stable samples, and permit the fact that noise with adcs & opamps tends to rise with the lower frequencies sampled. (but should use even larger/number averaging, etc for definitive analysis). Extremely narrow time windows can end up discounting/riding those elements.



Scope Channel - Unplugged.
        - (200MHz BW) 0.12mV RMS - 0.80mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  0.10mV RMS - 0.40mV Pk2Pk

Which makes then numbers in microvolts:
        - (200MHz BW) 120uV RMS - 800uV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  100uV RMS - 400uV Pk2Pk

if the window is narrowed to 2ns and single shot is clicked a few times for a middle of the row sample number, then:
        - (200MHz BW) 409uV RMS - 240uV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  160uV RMS - 140uV Pk2Pk
...and well, those numbers seem to end up somewhat evidently arse backwards for my liking; hence a rather narrow sample window for noise (averaging) tests is maybe not the best idea.

[mnementh]

Pulled the trigger on a UTG 962 from bang-em-good; was able to burn a few affiliate points and saved a few dollars. Might be here before X-mas; we'll see how it fares then.

mnem
 

[jbaribeault]

I got mine and it works a treat - very happy.

But I can't for the life of me get the USB interface drivers working in Windows. My end goal is to use it for BodeII mode from my Siglent (based on another thread here) and I'm willing to write up the "driver" but I can't even get it working in windows with the provided software to sniff the commands out.

Windows visa shows:
ERROR - 107380715: blength field is incorrect for USB_ENDPOINT_DESCRIPTOR type for both endpoints.
Looking at the INF included in the software, there is no matching ID - there is a 5656:0834 but that is for a different UNI-T part that I can see.
Though sometimes it is "null value for Serial Number" and "Unexpected bDescriptorType - expected USB_STRING_DESCRIPTOR"

So I forced an install of the libusb-win32 driver right from the net since I've used this driver for other stuff before (unsigned, test-mode thanks Win10!) and it recognizes as a libusb-win32 device in device manager, but the software (included DeviceManager or NI-MAX) can't see it as something to talk to.

I saw above in the POSTS something about USB3 being an issue - every port on this machine is USB3 so I tried through a USB2 hub - no change. If I need to dust off some older laptop with USB2 that's fine....I just want to make sure I'm barking up the right tree as right now it seems more of a hardware issue...

I decided I would try with my pi4 and py-visa. The linux package seems to see the device and I can get it to respond to an '*IDN?' query - but that's it.
(visa) list
( 0) ASRL/dev/ttyAMA0::INSTR
( 1) USB0::26198::2100::2294216613::0::INSTR
(visa) open 1
USB0::26198::2100::2294216613::0::INSTR has been opened.
You can talk to the device using "write", "read" or "query".
The default end of message is added to each message.
(open) query *idn?
Response: UNI-T Technologies,UTG900E,2294216613,1.08

Can't find any documentation about the command protocols on this. I was hoping to reverse engineer it from windows, but can't get windows to see it. Argh!

Does everyone have the same lsusb -v -d 6656:0834 output? I'd like to know if I have a hardware issue since I tried the above on 2 windows computers and in the lsusb notice the failure to get the qualifier and debug descriptors.

Bus 001 Device 003: ID 6656:0834
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x6656
  idProduct          0x0834
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 uni-trend
  iProduct                2 UTG900E
  iSerial                 3 2294216613
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength       0x0020
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          4 UTG900E
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower                2mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
      bInterfaceSubClass      3 Test and Measurement
      bInterfaceProtocol      1 TMC
      iInterface              5 UTG900E
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
can't get device qualifier: Resource temporarily unavailable
can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable
Device Status:     0x0002
  (Bus Powered)
  Remote Wakeup Enabled

Anyways - any help/hints would be appreciated; this is a nice little unit and pretty accurate to boot.

[Labrat101]

Hi I dont use windows very much but I have a windows 10 laptop that I installed the software
and it works ok . You have to install VISA driver that comes with it . it was in a different folder .
But I hate windows with vengeance .
I use Mint 20 . I am not good with software or programming stuff .
I use it only a few times and it was sort of a weird setup . I manly use my 962 as is .
Maybe its the Vista that did not install correctly as that has all the drivers etc .
 

[Mechatrommer]

stefa provided the link to the windows driver here.. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-utg932utg962-200msas-function-arbitrary-waveform-generator-220394/msg3101771/#msg3101771 in there, there is also some manual on pc software control maybe you can start sniffing from there. it will be good if we can develop pc software to control its frequency output.

[jbaribeault]

Yeah I can't get the windows drivers from either package to work for love or money. 

I think there may be an issue with the USB controller on mine, as it keeps changing which descriptors are readable vs not when plugged in - no matter what cable I use. Happens on the pi too - sometimes I can't read certain descriptors....

Since it came from Banggood the chances of me providing sufficient video evidence for them to do an RMA are slim to none.

[Labrat101]

Yeah I can't get the windows drivers from either package to work for love or money. 

I think there may be an issue with the USB controller on mine, as it keeps changing which descriptors are readable vs not when plugged in - no matter what cable I use. Happens on the pi too - sometimes I can't read certain descriptors....

Since it came from Banggood the chances of me providing sufficient video evidence for them to do an RMA are slim to none.

Hi if its any help I will load the program that I used on my windows 10 laptop to Google drive
and I will PM you the link .. give me some time .
The other link was deleted . My software did work . it used the VISA-NI  .
Its worth a try you may have non full set up .  Also did you try the USB on the back of the PC.
 I know it does don't work on my USB3 but the USB2 worked 
 update:: I sent you the  link,   It works fine on my windows 10.
 UTG900.rar
 

[mnementh]

Yeah I can't get the windows drivers from either package to work for love or money. 

I think there may be an issue with the USB controller on mine, as it keeps changing which descriptors are readable vs not when plugged in - no matter what cable I use. Happens on the pi too - sometimes I can't read certain descriptors....

Since it came from Banggood the chances of me providing sufficient video evidence for them to do an RMA are slim to none.

You probably have a non-compatible USB-serial driver installed already, and Windoze keeps trying to use that one instead. If you use Zadig, you can manually specify which driver that particular instance of the USB-serial converter uses, and assign a specific virtual com port so it always has the same com port.

mnem
 

[Dakkahun]

Hello.

My UTG962 arrives tomorrow, also from Banggood.
I'm also interested in using it for Bode II with a SDS1104X-E.

I'll check the lsusb output first thing and post the results.

Cheers!

[Labrat101]

Yeah I can't get the windows drivers from either package to work for love or money. 

I think there may be an issue with the USB controller on mine, as it keeps changing which descriptors are readable vs not when plugged in - no matter what cable I use. Happens on the pi too - sometimes I can't read certain descriptors....

Since it came from Banggood the chances of me providing sufficient video evidence for them to do an RMA are slim to none.

You probably have a non-compatible USB-serial driver installed already, and Windoze keeps trying to use that one instead. If you use Zadig, you can manually specify which driver that particular instance of the USB-serial converter uses, and assign a specific virtual com port so it always has the same com port.

mnem
 

I was wondering if that  Zadig  would work under Linux Q4wine
 as wine does not see all the USB .
Has anyone tried ?

[jbaribeault]

I'll give Zadig a whirl....I even tried with Visa 20 tools and the whole bloatware mess of NI and no dice....but then the descriptors keep not being available - VERY flaky on USB3.....In the end I really don't care about working it from windows, as long as I can use PY-VISA or the like to control it from my PI or an ESP32 - I'll take it. I wanted the windows part to work so that I could sniff out the commands since UNI-Trends doesn't publish a command guide and hasn't been AT ALL responsive to questions

[Dakkahun]

As promised, the output for lsusb -v on my unit:

# lsusb -v -d 6656:0834

Bus 001 Device 006: ID 6656:0834
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x6656
  idProduct          0x0834
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 uni-trend
  iProduct                2 UTG900E
  iSerial                 3 895783604
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength       0x0020
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          4 UTG900E
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower                2mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
      bInterfaceSubClass      3 Test and Measurement
      bInterfaceProtocol      1 TMC
      iInterface              5 UTG900E
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
can't get device qualifier: Resource temporarily unavailable
can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable
Device Status:     0x0002
  (Bus Powered)
  Remote Wakeup Enabled


The only difference I see is the serial number.

After the day job is done I'l give it a shot with Windows 10 and VISA-NI

Regards.

[jbaribeault]

Thanks! It looks like you get the same result from Linux as I do - which is great. At least it means there is no actual hardware problem
As I said earlier, with py-visa on the pi I can get an answer to '?IDN*' and it responds fine; I just don't know any other commands for this one.
I tried on another Win10 laptop yesterday but it has the same USB3.1 chipset as my desktop and I get the same random USB wackiness with it.

[Dakkahun]

Preliminary testing on Win10 desktop, using USB3.0 provided by Intel z97 chipset controller, looks ok.

At first, it did not recognize the device, then, after I installed the Visa-NI 5.4 runtime downloaded directly from ni.com, it changed to "USB Test and Measurement Device (IVI)".
Then installed the UNI-T Devices Manger, and I'm able to control the device from the virtual panel and upload waveforms.

I also attempted to connect with python:

Code: [Select]

import pyvisa as visa
def main():
 _rm = visa.ResourceManager()
 print (_rm.list_resources())
 utg = _rm.open_resource("USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR")
 print(utg.query("*IDN?"))
if __name__=='__main__':
 main()

result

('USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR',)
UNI-T Technologies,UTG900E,895783604,1.08

I guess the next step would be to try to sniff their application and start to figure it out.

Regards.

[Labrat101]

Thanks! It looks like you get the same result from Linux as I do - which is great. At least it means there is no actual hardware problem
As I said earlier, with py-visa on the pi I can get an answer to '?IDN*' and it responds fine; I just don't know any other commands for this one.
I tried on another Win10 laptop yesterday but it has the same USB3.1 chipset as my desktop and I get the same random USB wackiness with it.

Hi It only seems to work on usb2 .you can change the usb in the Bios setting . so it is downward compatible.
 my windows laptop also has two USB3 and one USB2 set as generic .
try you can always set it back again .
There USB cable supplied with UTG is USB2  and USB2  is a 4 wire system & USB3 uses 5 wires .
Some PC's have dual USB with both 2 & 3 connectors . The Blue USB's sockets are not all backward compatible .
If you already knew this  . just ignore the above 

I also got silly errors on some of the USB3 sockets

[Dakkahun]

It seems to work on my system with USB 3.0.
Progress is being made, some commands to try:

System:LOCK ON
System:LOCK OFF
KEY:Mode
KEY:Wave
KEY:Utility
KEY:F1
KEY:F3
KEY:F5
KEY:CH1
KEY:Symbol
KEY:DOT
KEY:NUM1
KEY:NUM9
KEY:Up
KEY:Down
KEY:Right
KEY:Left
Display:Data?  -  this returns two packets sized 8192 and 383552 bytes - the screen refresh

So it looks like all commands used by them are practically key presses. So if this is all they implemented, we would need to emulate the control commands using button presses.

Code: [Select]

import pyvisa as visa
def main():
 _rm = visa.ResourceManager()
 utg = _rm.open_resource("USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR")
 print(utg.write("System:LOCK ON"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:Wave"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F2"))
 print(utg.write("System:LOCK OFF"))
if __name__=='__main__':
 main()

I've attached the wireshark usb capture I've made.

Any thoughts?

[Labrat101]

As promised, the output for lsusb -v on my unit:

# lsusb -v -d 6656:0834

Bus 001 Device 006: ID 6656:0834
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x6656
  idProduct          0x0834
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 uni-trend
  iProduct                2 UTG900E
  iSerial                 3 895783604
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength       0x0020
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          4 UTG900E
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower                2mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
      bInterfaceSubClass      3 Test and Measurement
      bInterfaceProtocol      1 TMC
      iInterface              5 UTG900E
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
can't get device qualifier: Resource temporarily unavailable
can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable
Device Status:     0x0002
  (Bus Powered)
  Remote Wakeup Enabled


The only difference I see is the serial number.

After the day job is done I'l give it a shot with Windows 10 and VISA-NI

Regards.

Hi Can I ask a silly question can this be also done on Linux
cause I would like to get my UTG working in Mint 20 .
an I have no idea how these program works . I am only good with Hardware .
I tried to install Visa-NI under mint and failed terribly .
 IF so please could explain for a dummy programmer   

thanks

[jbaribeault]

Wow! Thanks that's exactly what I was hoping to accomplish....disappointed at the results though because doing control via keypresses isn't going to be fun - doable, but not fun. Really depends on the minimal time between commands we can send I guess.

[jbaribeault]

Confirmed what works through py-visa under my pi Key commands work as expected.
"soft" keys on the bottom are F1-F6 - Number pad as NUM0-NUM9 other keys are as marked.

I'll try and work on the BodeII "driver" for the Siglent as a holiday project; hopefully I find it can take the commands fast enough to be of use. Doesn't bode[sic] well though since it can't seem to take more than 1 command on the line at a time...so there will likely be delay.

Here's a sample from pyvisa-shell (no exciting output - just know the UTG changed state as expected )

Welcome to the VISA shell. Type help or ? to list commands.

(visa) list
( 0) ASRL/dev/ttyAMA0::INSTR
( 1) USB0::26198::2100::2294216613::0::INSTR
(visa) open 1
USB0::26198::2100::2294216613::0::INSTR has been opened.
You can talk to the device using "write", "read" or "query".
The default end of message is added to each message.
(open) query *IDN?
Response: UNI-T Technologies,UTG900E,2294216613,1.08
(open) query Display:Data?
'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfa in position 4: ordinal not in range(128)
(open) write KEY:CH1
(open) write KEY:CH1
(open) write KEY:F1
....

[Dakkahun]

@jbaribeault

I've tested, this sample program which inputs two different frequencies takes about 0.85s for each value on Win10 and 0.8s on my Pi3. We'll need to find out if it is enough, since I saw that in 4x1md's youtube demo video, the frequency sweep is slow at low frequencies, and accelerates as you go up on the logarithmic scale.

visa_test.py

Code: [Select]

import pyvisa as visa
import time
def main():
 _rm = visa.ResourceManager()
# print (_rm.list_resources())
 utg = _rm.open_resource("USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR")
# print(utg.query("*IDN?"))
 
 print(utg.write("System:LOCK ON"))
 #print(utg.write("KEY:CH1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:CH1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:Wave"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F1"))
 begin = time.time()
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:DOT"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F3"))
 #time.sleep(5)
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM5"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:DOT"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM8"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM4"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM8"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM9"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM3"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM2"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F3"))
 end = time.time()
 #time.sleep(5)
 print(utg.write("KEY:CH1"))
 print(utg.write("System:LOCK OFF"))
 
 print(f"Total runtime of the program is {end - begin}")
if __name__=='__main__':
 main()
@Labrat101

From what I can find, NI does not offer a package for NI-VISA for Debian derivatives, as you can see here: https://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/378353a.html#install
On Linux we're using the python3 PyVISA and pyvisa-py libraries.
I installed them on my Raspbian/RPI3 with pip3:

pip3 install pyvisa
pip3 install pyusb
pip3 install pyvisa-py

and then running the code with:

python3 visa_test.py

[jbaribeault]

Excellent - thanks for that! Works for me too - and the timings look the same timing-wise. I've raised the question in the BodeII plot thread about how tight the waveform changes happen to see if this will be possible at all with this rather slow set method. Kind of disappointing that they only implemented the button pushes Still it's better than nothing.

[Dakkahun]

I checked the documentation provided for the older and bigger brothers, in hope of seeing if they have described a protocol or something, but no such luck. 
I also sent an e-mail to Uni-T support asking about the protocol they are using. Let's see if they answer.

Regards.

[jbaribeault]

Yeah I did the same when I received mine - complete radio silence from UNI-T support so far...

[Dakkahun]

In the meantime, I was looking at the photos of the internals kindly provided by @ataradov and @Mechatrommer, did anybody investigate the pin headers present on both boards?

[mnementh]

THIS is new...

mnem
 

[Anthocyanina]

Hi!, I've been following this thread for a while before registering, i'm setting up my home lab since access to the uni lab is pretty much indefinitely closed, and when lookign for a function generator i came across this one, and the koolertron and feeltech ones. This one seems to be better built than the feeltech and koolertron ones, and its features also eem pretty good, but now i wonder what is the actual difference between something like this and other awgs that cost 3 or more times as much as this one? regarding performance. Thank you!

[ataradov]

The specs are better. You can just take the manuals for all of them and compare the stated numbers.

But really, the only thing you can note on this device is relatively slow rise/fall times on the square waves.

Others may have better remote control and may be better (or any at all) support, if that matters to you.

For most practical uses this generator is fine.

[Anthocyanina]

Oh, i see, i'll look up the datasheets of those and see what they do different, i think those rise and fall times should be ok for the low speed things i do. thank you!

[TurboTom]

My current go-to budget AWG is Rigol's DG811 after it's "liberated". In the class below that, this Uni-T appears to be the most decent choice but I haven't got first-hand experience with it so I haven't got a real comparison.

What I like about it is that it seems to be solidly built (I simply don't like gear that's got a flimsy, cheapish appearance), uses "real" DACs (none of the directly FPGA-driven, discrete R-2R networks of questionable accuracy), its design with a single, low voltage supply (so it can easily be powered by a USB power box), the presence of a numeric keapad (thoug it may be tiny), and it's general small, compact design that makes it a good choice as an "on-the-road" instrument.

I don't like too much the absence of dedicated sample memory, the apparent lack of decent PC software support (other instruments, even much more expensive ones, may not look much better here...), the way the transconductance amplifier is located directly after the DAC and not with the reconstruction filter in between (this opened Uni-T the chance to go with a single-ended reconstruction filter design and safe a few components at the cost of higher distortion), that it only has one AUX port for all "advanced functions" and it lacks a reference frequency input - that's probably the price one has to pay for the form factor and may be acceptable considering its main applications (there are "almost-high-end" instruments available that aren't equipped that much better...yes, Siglent, I'm talking about you  ), and maybe that Uni-T lost the opportunity to include a battery option within the instrument's casing.
Edit: During a quick fly-over of the manual, I noticed that the multi-function AUX input/output of the UTG9x2 has just digital capabilities. This means, no external analog modulation is available. This is really disappointing news. It excludes the use of the AWG as a wide-range VCO!

I'ld love to do a comparison of one of these Uni-T AWG vs. an entry level instrument a class above it (for axample the Rigol device that I mentioned), we may actually be up to a surprise (in either direction...) but I just can't be bothered to spend on another AWG that I won't really need   .

Anyway, if one is in the market for hobby grade AWG, and the available funds are hard-limited to round about 100 US, EU or UK bucks, this Uni-T device probably won't be the worst choice.

[JamesLynton]

Ah yes, the HP 54600 series scopes, one of the businesses I was involved with a little while back had loads of them and was rather fond of them.. decent machines which are oddly satisfying to use.

[rernexy]

Got my utg962 yesterday (Weekend delivery!). Problem is, Uni-t did not include an Australian socket adapter for their plug pack. So I'm powering it with a LiPo power bank I had lying around (comsol branded from Officeworks). Also don't have a 50R BNC terminator lying around, so 2 100R resistors in parallel are doing that job.

EDIT: This energizer USB power adapter could power it, it's current rating (2.4A) is higher than the uni-t supplied one. But then it wouldn't be portable.

[JamesLynton]

Took nearly a month, though had a personal reply from Uni-T on the much needed matter of saving configuration presets on the UTG962 - it is being passed onto the development team.
Hopefully sometime in the near future that feature will find itself onto these devices; shall see.

I may also poke them to suggest better implementing the USB bus commands for remote controlling the unit as well, in order to more cleanly automate things like bode plotting.
If anyone has suggestions on a preferred control instruction implementation, please let me know and I will pass it along.
Thanks.

[Dakkahun]

This is good news, my e-mail exchanges with them regarding the communication protocol and firmware upgrade capabilities have been less than satisfactory so far.

[mnementh]

      

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/msg3393818/#msg3393818

I like mine well enough that I bothered to print up a wedge base for my 54645A so the UTG962 fits right there.



   

That said... I feel obligated to pass on a warning to my fellow enthusiasts aboot the horrible cheap-arse BNCs on these things (well, at least which came on mine); as you can see, the center contact is not the usual machined bit, but rather just rolled sheet metal, and not very carefully rolled at that.

I noticed this when I was tinkering with it during the photo session for my wedge base above; it had a finicky contact on one of the BNCs that would drop out if you wiggled the cable at all laterally. At first, I thought there was something wrong with the RG58/U cables I'd made up from leftovers. But then I noticed that it did the same thing with the brand-new factory-made BNC jumper which came with the thing, and always on the same BNC jack.

Further inspection revealed the horror seen above; but worse, inspection of the cable showed this connector was actually shaving metal off the center pin of those BNCs. I took many pics, but this was the best of them... unfortunately it doesn't well show the actual shaving of the metal which is visible to the eye under magnification. This is a brand-new BNC plug with maybe 6 mating cycles on it.

Yes, these things are built to a price; but I feel that having connectors which damage your expensive interconnect cables is definitely on the wrong side of the too fukkin' cheap line; be forewarned.

So... while this generator is a great value function-wise, I advise you not to use any cables or probes with it that you care aboot... and that you probably should consider replacing these little horrors with a set of decent BNC jacks as part of the cost of ownership on this little beast; I'm planning to add them to my next BOM.

It might be okay with cables using a stainless steel BNC or maybe with a decent stainless BNC right angle as a intermediary connector; but I've only ever seen those in 75Ω.

EDIT:   

Disassembly and measurement shows these are clones of Amphenol 031-5486; the version with solid pins in white Valox. These are ~$7 each at Mouser or DigiKey. Any of the above Low-Profile receptacles should be a suitable replacement, however.

Datasheet attached below.


mnem

[mawyatt]

Another option would be to place a quality BNC male to female adapter on the AWG outputs. Something like this.
https://www.l-com.com/Coaxial-Adapter-BNC-Male-Female?gclid=CjwKCAiAi_D_BRApEiwASslbJzHAXZeio_rmvaq7TTGiT2ggStb4EMVJnWhKYriNI8lE6rD2-e8oehoChz4QAvD_BwE

Cheap BNC and other adapters/cables cause endless headaches. Here's one I just found The end just pulled off when I removed the attached cable. I've got my fair share of these cheap items and need to send most to the trash can

Best,

[mnementh]

Yeah; that's what I was talking aboot when I suggested a decent stainless BNC right angle as a intermediary connector; but like I said, I've only ever seen those in 75Ω.

The usual right angle adaptor with gold-plated bronze pins in 50Ω version is of course a possible solution; but I can't count on it to fix the intermittent connection problem I'm having, nor can one be sure how long they will work with that hinky contact damaging the pin in the adaptor.

I get wanting to not void warranty; but at this price I for one am not going to be sending the UTG962 back to China, and those connectors are only $7 each in Amphenol brand, which is just aboot the same as the right angle adapter. I think it's better to bite the bullet and fix the problem rather than pay for fixing it two or more times with band-aid solutions.

Just my 2 pesos worth.

mnem
 

[Labrat101]

@  mnementh
Hi , nice base . I have the same scope HP54645A also I have added the FFT option pack on the back
These scopes will read very happily into the Ghz .. ( Don't tell every one or they will all want One ) 
You just had Vectors turned OFF . Nothing weird 
If you have the FFT option on the back of the scope will read will read even higher GHZ in FFT   

PS set the load to 50ohm 

[mnementh]

Oh, I figured it was just imperfect isolation between the two channels on a $99 Arb and the signals were beating together; not exactly unexpected. If you look at my first pic with the UTG962 above, you can see it displaying 5GHz, just letting it Autoscale. 

I haven't even scratched the surface of what this scope can do; it knows what I'm looking for before I do half the time. Honestly, I quite like using it better than the DS1054Zed I had for 2 years before I moved to the Great White North.

If you want to stop using your old meters as cribbing blocks , the STLs for my wedge base are over in the 3DP Feet & Knobs thread:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/msg3393818/#msg3393818

Cheers,

mnem
 

[Labrat101]

Oh, I figured it was just imperfect isolation between the two channels on a $99 Arb and the signals were beating together; not exactly unexpected. If you look at my first pic with the UTG962 above, you can see it displaying 5GHz, just letting it Autoscale. 

I saw the 5Ghz . my one was also flicking between 1 & 5ghz in auto . . If you use direct cable set to x1 not
auto . Yes these scope are great they just work and show what you want when you want .
 Without all the bells and BS of the Digital stuff . (Old school Rules OK)
When set with Vectors OFF it will except odd frequencies  on the channels
 its quite normal . your scope may need recalibrating . there is a switch on the back to unlock the memory
 then you need a RG link cable to Channel 1 and follow the on screen instructions .
 And you can use the UTG962 to check the square pulse when ask for.
Make sure the 962 is set for 50   and not High Z ( utility .. System menu ) 
The Bandwidth of this scope is way higher than the 200Msa/s on the front panel .
 I have pulse this scope from my Neobodnar GPSDO that goes from 400Hz to 810Mhz Cmos square .
 Without blowing any thing up 

O did you find the Easter Egg in the Utility/print menu
 Also a Game . enjoy

[mnementh]

Yup. Got mine from AllTest on US fleaBay: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3180550/#msg3180550

There's also a TETRIS game you can play on these; it's stored in the RS-232/Printer add-on board if you have it.

If you don't have it, I recommend snagging a copy of this 54645A resource as well: https://archive.org/details/HP54645NCLIPImgs



Now I have an excuse to get back into my 4070A; I received my order of AD811ANs from China last week, but I've been putting it off as other things higher priority. But I just noticed while looking through some other pics that it has those Amphenol 031-5486s as well; 6 of 'em in fact. If I can't resurrect the 4070A, it will become a BNC socket donor and I'll get half my investment in the thing back just from not buying them.

mnem
 

[Labrat101]

Thats only one Easter Egg . There are 2 more . One is Bugs press Utility/Print press the 2nd & 3rd buttons
and hold for a few seconds (Hardcopy & IO Buttons ) and the game will start.
Its Called BUGs   enjoy
The third is Little unknown and not Published as far as I know .
Its called the Jackal menu This give you access to the main op system and can change memory and lots of other stuff . etc  ""System Level ""
That is entered by holding the service menu button & the button to the left of it together (soft Buttons)
this will give a new menu .
Jackal Menu , Acquire Menu , Anolog Menu ,  DAC ON .
You can turn hidden options ON/Off as well ie Zooming enable . which is Off .
Make notes what you change . also you can reset the Zero line if its off . And about
anything else .
Be careful what you change .  I have not played with any of the setting as my scope is
fine . I did a Full recalibration about a year ago and its spot on .
Enjoy the Bug game 

Thanks for the link I will look at it. 

[mnementh]

Yeah, I knew aboot the System Level menu;   I think I read aboot it in that service documentation I linked to. I just don't volunteer that tidbit with people I don't know; at least until I have an idea whether they know enuf to not nuke their scope in 30 seconds flat. 

It is my understanding that BUGS/TETRIS is an either/or thing; which you get depends on which version of the RS-232/printer board you get. EDIT: Or maybe it's the FFT board...? As I don't have anything that can emulate a LaserJet4, hasn't really been a huge motivation to get the board. I keep my eyes open, but it has to be "for a steal" prices, if you know what I mean.

mnem
 

[ab5eu]

Per your musings on comparisons this document still seems to be current:

https://www.element14.com/community/groups/roadtest/blog/2020/05/17/tektronix-afg31052-verification-tests

Enjoy!
AB5EU

[redjr]

This is the third time I have had trouble with DHL they are the worst as they use other carriers.

This is location dependent, so use whatever carrier works best in your area. In my case DHL is the most reliable carrier.

Not really in my case it never left china and never got to the main distributor . UNI-T sent it out DHL collected and after 10 days
never got processed .
I had the same thing with DHL UK they lost a package at the airport .    It turned up 3 months later . I had already  got a refunded
and a resend via another Currier within 7 days .
 DHL has the worst track history and the best delay system .

That's not been my experience from Asia.  DHL to the US is the most reliable and cost effective.  JLCPCB pretty much uses it exclusively and orders get to my address in 7 days!  If more Chinese companies had logistics operation like JLCPCB, they'd be big winners in getting stuff to the US, and other worldwide locations.  Sadly, we have to deal with the likes of Ali-Express and Banggood, using their sorry a$$ China Speed Post.  More like the Pony Express!    I just ordered this FG from Ali-Express and requested DHL shipping.  We'll see.  Covid is still affecting everything - especially here in the USA with our dismal USPS.  Priority Mail used to be promised in 2-3 days.  Now it takes 2-3 weeks!  Hopefully, our new president will fix that issue in time with our sorry a$$ PostMaster General getting the boot.

[Adam Baum]

Is there a menu setting to select language?  If so, the "E" suffix claimed to signify "the English version" by China-based sellers who I trust as far as I can throw the nation of China doesn't make sense, especially since letter suffixes on UNI-T multimeters have significant meanings.  If there isn't a setting, maybe their claim is true.

[Labrat101]

Is there a menu setting to select language?  If so, the "E" suffix claimed to signify "the English version" by China-based sellers who I trust as far as I can throw the nation of China doesn't make sense, especially since letter suffixes on UNI-T multimeters have significant meanings.  If there isn't a setting, maybe their claim is true.

Yes.
Press Utility ..
Then press the 4rd button on the bottom row  ( System)
Then press 3rd button  (Language)
Then press the first button . (That's English  ).

Counting from Left is one ..

PS  "E" suffix  was the first series and its does mean English .

My one also came in Chinese used the Google translator on Phone
 

[Adam Baum]

PS  "E" suffix  was the first series and its does mean English .

Thanks. Then what are the UTG9X2 units without the "E"?  A later unit that I can't find on the UNI-T web page? And what sense does it make to add an "E" to designate something that can be set in the menu?

My one also came in Chinese

And yours is an "E" unit?  Here's the info from a menu-accessed data screen of a YouTube UTG962E reviewer:

Software Version is 1.08
Hardware Version 1.01
FPGA version 1.07
Model shows as UTG900E

Are yours the same, earlier or later?

His hardware versions (just FYI, I'm not asking for yours):

UTG900 MainBoard
Edition V1.02: 20190426

UTG900 KeyBDisplay
Edition: V1.03 20190428

Thanks.

[Labrat101]

PS  "E" suffix  was the first series and its does mean English .

Thanks. Then what are the UTG9X2 units without the "E"?  A later unit that I can't find on the UNI-T web page? And what sense does it make to add an "E" to designate something that can be set in the menu?

My one also came in Chinese

And yours is an "E" unit?  Here's the info from a menu-accessed data screen of a YouTube UTG962E reviewer:

Software Version is 1.08     ((Same))
Hardware Version 1.01          ((Same))
FPGA version 1.07                ((Same))
Model shows as UTG900E

Are yours the same, earlier or later?

His hardware versions (just FYI, I'm not asking for yours):

UTG900 MainBoard           !!   ??
Edition V1.02: 20190426

UTG900 KeyBDisplay
Edition: V1.03 20190428       !! ??

Thanks.

First I bought my UTG 962  direct from UNI-T . 

Yes My numbers are the same . And there is No "E"
Were did you get this number from??  Edition V1.02: 20190426
I did not open as it has a seal and calibration warrantee on it .
Date code is Sep 2020 .
Date code can be seen though the vent holes on the back.

I also saw that E version on YouTube . But  UNT-T  its not shown on their Site .
That's why I bought Direct . I think its added to an agent supplier or 3rd Hand supplier .
  Leave the E version alone AS its not registered on UNI-T so if it looks fishy and Smells Fishy .
  It's A Bang U Good Job.
  Don't quote me on that . as I am not 100%  sure . And I am sure someone will Rant & Rave .
  I Know my one is original . FedEX' ed  from UNI-T


Edit correction I just checked their site it is now showing the "E''  So it looks like the E is Kosha
 

[JamesLynton]

If I recall, didn't the E stand for European/English market edition ? ..pre-configured / accessoried up for this region or some such thing ?

[Labrat101]

My one was without the E and it came
With a very nice power supply 240vac
With a 2 pin euro plug. .
I looked on the site and there seems to be no difference in the technical  data .
 Maybe a sales gimmick.  Or a typo when they made the labels.  . If your buying get  directly from
UNI -T . and request voltage etc.

[Adam Baum]

My one was without the E and it came
With a very nice power supply 240vac
With a 2 pin euro plug. .
I looked on the site and there seems to be no difference in the technical  data .
 Maybe a sales gimmick.  Or a typo when they made the labels.  . If your buying get  directly from
UNI -T . and request voltage etc.

The "E" model is the only thing I find listed at the UNI-T site and I downloaded the manual which shows an "E" model in the cover photo.  The power brick is listed in it as a universal 100-240Vrms 50/60Hz 0.4A unit, so marking the unit with an "E" because it's a European/English market edition doesn't make sense for multiple reasons - the language can be chosen in the menu anyway, the power brick is universal, and even with an "E" marking that still doesn't distinguish between the various plugs needed on the power brick for various countries.

Firmware versions match between "E" and non-"E" units, but who knows about hardware changes.  It can't be that they upgraded the crappy BNC jacks detailed here because that person shows an "E" model in his photos.

As I've said previously, letter suffixes on UNI-T multimeters have significant meanings and an "E" suffix doesn't indicate a European/English market edition.  Too bad straight answers from China-based manufacturers are unobtainium.

[Jukka]

Any news on UTG962 API?

I have tried to implement a pyvisa python  class for managing UTG962 signal generator.
Current status:

• plus/minus key conversion missing
• syncrhonize UTG962 device  with UTG962 python class missing

For the synchronization,  query command, which would return device state, is needed. An other possibility would be a  reset command, which resets display to a know state. (writing "*RST" to the device stop signal generation and set parameter to their default values, but does not reset display state - as far as I can tell).

Here is the code (very much under construction)

 

Code: [Select]


  import numpy as np
  import pyvisa
  import re
  from time import sleep
  import matplotlib.pyplot as plt


  class UTG962:
         """
         Unit-T signal generator
         """

         ADDR = "USB0::0x6656::0x0834::1485061822::INSTR"

         # Construct && close
         def __init__( self, addr=ADDR,  debug = False ):
            self.rm = pyvisa.ResourceManager()
            self.sgen = self.rm.open_resource(addr)
            self.debug = debug
            try:
                self.idn = self.sgen.query('*IDN?')
                print("Successfully connected  '{}' with '{}'".format(addr, self.idn))
            except:
                pass

         def close(self ):
             try:
                 self.rm.close()
             except:
                 pass

             try:
                 self.sgen.close()
             except:
                 pass

         # Low level commuincation
         def write(self, cmd ):
              self.sgen.write(cmd)

         def query(self, cmd, strip=False ):
              ret = self.sgen.query(cmd)
              if strip: ret = ret.rstrip()
              return( ret )

         # LL (low level language =keypress)
         def llReset(self):
           self.write( "*RST" )
         def llLock(self):
           self.write( "System:LOCK on")
         def llOpen(self):
           self.write( "System:LOCK off")
         def llCh(self, ch):
           self.write( "KEY:CH{}".format(ch))
         def llChQ(self, ch):
           return self.query( "STATUS:CH{}".format(ch))
         def llWave(self):
           self.write( "KEY:Wave")
         def llUtility(self):
           self.write( "KEY:Utility")
         def llKey(self, keyStr):
           self.write( "KEY:{}".format(keyStr))
         def llMode(self):
           self.write( "KEY:Mode")
         def llF(self, digit ):
           self.write( "KEY:F{}".format(digit))
         def llF1(self):
           self.llF(1)
         def llF2(self):
           self.llF(2)
         def llF2(self):
           self.llF(2)
         def llF3(self):
           self.llF(3)
         def llF4(self):
           self.llF(4)
         def llF5(self):
           self.llF(5)
         def llF6(self):
           self.llF(6)
         def llNum(self, numStr):
           def ch2cmd( ch ):
               chMap = {
                   "0": "NUM0",
                   "1": "NUM1",
                   "2": "NUM2",
                   "3": "NUM3",
                   "4": "NUM4",
                   "5": "NUM5",
                   "6": "NUM6",
                   "7": "NUM7",
                   "8": "NUM8",
                   "9": "NUM9",
                   ".": "DOT",
                   ",": "DOT",
               }
               try:
                  keyName = chMap[ch]
                  return  keyName
               except KeyError:
                      raise ValueError( "Could not extract keyName for ch {} numStr {}".format( ch, numStr ))
           for ch in str(numStr):
              self.write( "KEY:{}".format(ch2cmd(ch)))
         def llFKey( self, val, keyMap):
             try:
                self.llF(keyMap[val])
             except KeyError as err:
                print( "Invalid key {}, valid keys {}\nError '{}'".format( val, keyMap.keys(), str(err)))

         # IL intermediate (=action in a given mode)
         def ilFreq( self, freq, unit ):
             self.llNum( str(freq))
             self.ilFreqUnit( unit )
         def ilAmp( self, freq, unit ):
             self.llNum( str(freq))
             self.ilAmpUnit( unit )
         def ilOffset( self, freq, unit ):
             self.llNum( str(freq))
             self.ilOffsetUnit( unit )
         def ilPhase( self, freq, unit ):
             self.llNum( str(freq))
             self.ilPhaseUnit( unit )

         def ilConf( self, wave ):
             waveMap  = {
                "Freq":   "1",
                "Amp":    "2",
                "Offset": "3",
                "Phase":  "4",
             }
             self.llFKey( val=wave, keyMap = waveMap )

         def ilWave1( self, wave ):
             """Selec wave type"""
             waveMap  = {
                "sine": "1",
                "square": "2",
                "pulse":  "3",
                "ramp": "4",
                "arb": "5",
                "MHz": "6",
             }
             self.llFKey( val=wave, keyMap = waveMap )

         def ilWave1Props( self, wave ):
             """Wave properttes sine/square"""
             waveMap  = {
                "Freq": "1",
                "Amp": "2",
                "Offset":  "3",
                "Phase": "4",
                "Duty": "5",
                "Page Down": "6",
             }
             self.llFKey( val=wave, keyMap = waveMap )

         # Units
         def ilFreqUnit( self, unit ):
             freqUnit  = {
                "uHz": "1",
                "mHz": "2",
                "Hz":  "3",
                "kHz": "4",
                "MHz": "5",
             }
             self.llFKey( val=unit, keyMap = freqUnit )
         def ilAmpUnit( self, unit ):
             ampUnit  = {
                "mVpp": "1",
                "Vpp": "2",
                "mVrms":  "3",
                "Vrms": "4",
                "Cancel": "6",
             }
             self.llFKey( val=unit, keyMap = ampUnit )
         def ilOffsetUnit( self, unit ):
             offsetUnit  = {
                "mV": "1",
                "V": "2",
             }
             self.llFKey( val=unit, keyMap = offsetUnit )
         def ilPhaseUnit( self, unit ):
             phaseUnit  = {
                "deg": "1",
             }
             self.llFKey( val=unit, keyMap = phaseUnit )

          # Utils
         def valUnit( self, valUnitsStr ):
                match = re.search( r"(?P<value>[0-9\.]+)(?P<unit>[a-zA-Z]+)", valUnitsStr )
                if match is None:
                        raise ValueError( "Could not extract unit value from {}".format( valueUnitsStr ))
                return ( match.group('value'), match.group('unit') )

         # Commands
         def reset(self):
              self.llReset()
              self.llOpen()

         def generate( self, ch=1, wave="sine", freq="100Hz", amp="0.1Vpp", offset="0V", phase="0deg" ):
             self.reset()
             # sleep(0.54)
             if ch == 2: self.llCh(ch)
             self.ilWave1( "sine" )
             self.ilWave1( "square" )
             self.ilWave1( wave )
             # In frequencey
             self.ilFreq( *self.valUnit( freq ) )
             self.ilWave1Props( "Amp")
             self.ilAmp( *self.valUnit( amp ) )
             sleep(0.2)
             self.ilWave1Props( "Offset")
             self.ilOffset( *self.valUnit( offset ))
             self.ilWave1Props( "Phase")
             self.ilPhase( *self.valUnit( phase ))
             self.llCh(ch)
             # if ch == 2:   self.llCh(1)
             self.llOpen()
         def getName(self):
            return( self.query( "*IDN?"))





[W3AXL]

Does anyone know if there's any documentation for the .bsv file format that the UTG uses for arb waveforms? I opened a simple sine wave with a hex editor and didn't see anything immediately obvious in the data.

I have a grand ambition to generate APRS AFSK packets via the UTG into the modulation input of my service monitor, for testing APRS performance on a modem I'm developing. I'd love to be able to convert the PCM samples of my APRS test packets into an ARB file for the UTG. 4kSmps memory should be more than enough for a single packet at 4800khz sample rate.

EDIT

I see the waveform editor supports CSV files as well. That should make things much easier.

EDIT 2

Anyone have any tips for getting the UTG to work in Windows 10? I installed the NI 5.4 Runtime and the Device Manager, and I see the UTG showing up properly in the Windows Dev Manager as a "USB Test and Measurement Device (IVI)" but the UTG Device Manager isn't finding it. I installed everything via the latest driver download from Uni-T, and it's plugged into a hardware USB2.0 port on my motherboard.



I tried running the example PyVisa script from post #142 but it fails with an exception:

Code: [Select]

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File ".\pyvisa_test.py", line 8, in <module>
    main()
  File ".\pyvisa_test.py", line 5, in main
    utg = _rm.open_resource("USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR")
  File "C:\ProgramData\Miniconda3\lib\site-packages\pyvisa\highlevel.py", line 3304, in open_resource
    res.open(access_mode, open_timeout)
  File "C:\ProgramData\Miniconda3\lib\site-packages\pyvisa\resources\resource.py", line 298, in open
    self._resource_name, access_mode, open_timeout
  File "C:\ProgramData\Miniconda3\lib\site-packages\pyvisa\highlevel.py", line 3232, in open_bare_resource
    return self.visalib.open(self.session, resource_name, access_mode, open_timeout)
  File "C:\ProgramData\Miniconda3\lib\site-packages\pyvisa\ctwrapper\functions.py", line 1852, in open
    session, resource_name, access_mode, open_timeout, byref(out_session)
  File "C:\ProgramData\Miniconda3\lib\site-packages\pyvisa\ctwrapper\highlevel.py", line 222, in _return_handler
    return self.handle_return_value(session, ret_value)  # type: ignore
  File "C:\ProgramData\Miniconda3\lib\site-packages\pyvisa\highlevel.py", line 251, in handle_return_value
    raise errors.VisaIOError(rv)
pyvisa.errors.VisaIOError: VI_ERROR_RSRC_NFOUND (-1073807343): Insufficient location information or the requested device or resource is not present in the system.
Any ideas?

[Jukka]

I am using Ubuntu and I had to create  udev rule

Code: [Select]

SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="6656", ATTR{idProduct}=="0834", MODE="0666"   
into a file /etc/udev/rules.d/50-unit.rules before pyvisa was able to connect  to the device. (I am not using windows, and do not know if permissions could be the problem in your case, tough).

I have been able to take screen shots from my UTH962 using following tool chain:

Python:

Code: [Select]

import pyvisa
ADDR = "USB0::0x6656::0x0834::1485061822::INSTR"
rm = pyvisa.ResourceManager()
pyvisa.log_to_screen()
sgen = rm.open_resource(ADDR)
sgen.write( "Display:Data?")
disp = sgen.read_raw()[15:]
with open( "tmp/sshot1.bmp", "wb") as f:
   f.write( disp )


The result is flopped (~mirrored)  DIB file (~ BMP without some header data)

Code: [Select]

identify tmp/sshot1.bmp

: tmp/sshot1.bmp DIB 480x272 480x272+0+0 8-bit sRGB 392KB 0.000u 0:00.000


Conversion to png with the following command

Code: [Select]

convert tmp/sshot1.bmp -flop tmp/sshot1.png


[W3AXL]

I really need to get it working in Windows so I can upload waveforms. I'll spin up a Debian VM real quick just to see if I can even talk to the thing via linux.

I spent most of the morning trying various combinations of installs and drivers with no success. The Device Manager just refuses to find the UTG.

[W3AXL]

So Ubuntu in a VM is somewhat working. Apparently PyVisa converts the hex PID & VID to decimal, so the existing scripts had to be modified to account for that.

For reference, here's my lsusb info:

Code: [Select]

Bus 003 Device 006: ID 6656:0834 uni-trend UTG900
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x6656
  idProduct          0x0834
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 uni-trend
  iProduct                2 UTG900
  iSerial                 3 4234156241
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength       0x0020
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          4 UTG900
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower                2mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
      bInterfaceSubClass      3 Test and Measurement
      bInterfaceProtocol      1 TMC
      iInterface              5 UTG900
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
can't get device qualifier: Resource temporarily unavailable
can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable
Device Status:     0x0002
  (Bus Powered)
  Remote Wakeup Enabled

Listing the available devices via PyVisa:

Code: [Select]

$ sudo python3 list.py
('USB0::26198::2100::4234156241::0::INSTR',)

26198 = 0x6656 and 2100 = 0x0834

And the print script posted above works with the change in device address (had to tweak it a bit as the red and green channels were getting swapped for some reason):



So at least it's working on Linux. I'd really like to get it up and running on my main Win10 PC so I can play with the custom waveforms. At this point I'm almost wondering if creating a Windows 7 VM would be easier...

EDIT

I'm able to communicate with it via PyVisa on my Win10 host machine!

Code: [Select]

python .\pyvisa-test.py
('USB0::0x6656::0x0834::4234156241::INSTR', 'ASRL1::INSTR', 'ASRL2::INSTR', 'ASRL3::INSTR', 'ASRL4::INSTR', 'ASRL7::INSTR', 'ASRL8::INSTR', 'ASRL9::INSTR', 'ASRL11::INSTR')
UNI-T Technologies,UTG900,4234156241,1.08

 However, still no luck on the "official" Device Manager program. It refuses to see the UTG no matter what I do 

[Jukka]

I have packaged command line operations on UTG962 in Python command line wrapper on top pyvisa-py -package.

The code in my repository:

https://github.com/jarjuk/UTG900

Supported actions:

• screenshot
• reset
• on and off
• sine
• square
• pulse

Tested on Ubuntu 18.04 using python 3.9 running pyvisa and absl.py package. Screenshot requires imagemagick.

PS.

In my previous post, I pointed out the need to be able to reset UTG900 display to a known state. I found a way do this using command sequence 'Utility' and F1 (for choosing CH1) and F2 (for ch2). CH1/CH2 command buttons toggle the state and code may lose track of display state.

PPS.
Python savvy may import UT900 module and use UTH962 -class directly, as a part of a tool chain integrating UTG900 -signal generator with other instruments reachable using  pyvisa.

[W3AXL]

So I've successfully managed to get a Windows 7 VM to recognize the UTG. Progress!



However for whatever reason the ARB waveform editor doesn't seem to want to find it:



Has anyone actually managed to copy waveforms over to the sig gen? I'm starting to believe it's not possible.

[Jukka]

Some trials to upload waveform to UTG900  in  https://github.com/jarjuk/UTG900 version  Release:0.0.5-SNAPSHOT.

Do not know data format UTG900 is expecting, nor the protocol for uploading waveform over USB   
This does not work (for sure

Code: [Select]

         def ilWriteFile( self, filePath):
             """Expect to be in Arb/WaveFile waitin for file loaction &&
             updaload"""
             self.ilFileLocation( "External")
             with open( filePath) as fh:
                 lines = fh.readlines()
                 for line in lines:
                     self.write( line )



[Jukka]

Found a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORkJGdViAhg, which starting  @32:00 explains, how to tranfer
arb-waveforms to the device.

[W3AXL]

That's definitely not obvious, but it works! Thanks for posting the video, I probably never would've figured it out otherwise.

[Jukka]

Axel: 

As I have told

I am triyng to add arb wave form upload to my 'Tool to control UNIT-T UTG900 Waveform generator'

.

For this purpose, is possible for you to create a simple arb wave form into a file together with a screen shot of the wave form,  and send those to me (I have allowed email from forum members, an other possility is github pull request on my github repo https://github.com/jarjuk/UTG900)?

Having valid data is haft of the story. The other half of story is still open  I have not been able to find UTG962/UTG932 API documentation. I found RS documentation  https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1gp79/1GP79_1E_SCPI_Programming_Guide_SigGens.pdf discussing signal generator usage over SCPI, tough

[W3AXL]

I submitted a PR for a simple test waveform to your repo. Let me know if you want a simpler waveform, but I figured this would be a good starting point:

[W3AXL]

Also Amazon had a 10Ah USB battery pack on sale, so I decided to have a go at making my UTG portable.





Works great - I'll have to do some noise measurements to see if the cheap regulator inside the battery pack is making any noise.

[Jukka]

Axel: thank you for the PR!    Merged! Waveform is good for my purposes - the real pain is  in  figuring  out the  API to upload  files to the device.

I am planning to integrate my Rigol MSO1104Z scope to the UTG900 -tool ( -> in that case, need to rename the tool with a more generic name) to create a tool chain with uses cases:

- use interactive mode to setup signal generator/scope
- save interactive mode -session to CLI -script, which can be replayed on the devices
- Convert CLI -script to  python API calls, which can be replayed on the devices

and to apply these use cases for scripting amplifier performance measurements  : setup signal source, screenshot signal source, setup scope, take scope measurements, screenshot scope.

[zachik]

Also Amazon had a 10Ah USB battery pack on sale, so I decided to have a go at making my UTG portable.





Works great - I'll have to do some noise measurements to see if the cheap regulator inside the battery pack is making any noise.

Can you provide a link for that battery pack? Looks really cool solution!
Also, where did you get the USB to barrel cable from?

[W3AXL]

Battery pack: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QXV6N1B/

Right-angle cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075112RM6/

Anker typically makes good stuff so I'm fairly confident it's a quality pack. The cable I just found by searching "right angle usb to 5.5 2.1"

[JamesLynton]

Nice find, that power bank is a good fit, another solid reason for using a battery powered signal gen (and other tools for that matter), is you wont have to worry at all about signal ground loops mucking things up, stray voltages, or connecting to circuitry that might be 'floating' at some considerable voltages (especially given the all plastic construction). this puts compact generators like this at a significant advantage in certain use cases

I have also mused fitting an internal powerbank/battery within the shell (if theres space for at least a modest cell phone battery or a 18650 Cell) when mine is out of warranty (for what good that is), should be able to in-line it between the usb port and power in socket for an 'invisible' implementation.

[Labrat101]

I think if you put an internal battery . It will effect the air flow and these units run quite warm
after a few hours . On my UTG 962 the voltage drifts as it warms up . stabilizes after about 20mins.
Ok its only a few mv . Fitting an internal lithium battery I think it will cause you problems . But that also depends on what you are doing . If you can live with Frequency & voltage drifts as the battery also heats up.
I like my one stable to 10^-6 after Half an hour .
And using the power supply it came with is 4.999v and a ground jumper to the BNC works fine.
A Battery stuck to the back is far better . 

[OnAironaut]

My one was without the E and it came
With a very nice power supply 240vac
With a 2 pin euro plug. .
I looked on the site and there seems to be no difference in the technical  data .
 Maybe a sales gimmick.  Or a typo when they made the labels.  . If your buying get  directly from
UNI -T . and request voltage etc.

The "E" model is the only thing I find listed at the UNI-T site and I downloaded the manual which shows an "E" model in the cover photo.  The power brick is listed in it as a universal 100-240Vrms 50/60Hz 0.4A unit, so marking the unit with an "E" because it's a European/English market edition doesn't make sense for multiple reasons - the language can be chosen in the menu anyway, the power brick is universal, and even with an "E" marking that still doesn't distinguish between the various plugs needed on the power brick for various countries.

Firmware versions match between "E" and non-"E" units, but who knows about hardware changes.  It can't be that they upgraded the crappy BNC jacks detailed here because that person shows an "E" model in his photos.

As I've said previously, letter suffixes on UNI-T multimeters have significant meanings and an "E" suffix doesn't indicate a European/English market edition.  Too bad straight answers from China-based manufacturers are unobtainium.

I contacted UNI-T via e-mail address displayed on their website, and asked about the difference between UTG962 and UTG962E.

The answer was that "UTG962E is the international version, UTG962 is the Chinese domestic version."

I think I'm going to order the "E" version. I doubt there is any difference between the two, except for the letter "E" on the front panel.

[Labrat101]

My one was without the E and it came
With a very nice power supply 240vac
With a 2 pin euro plug. .
I looked on the site and there seems to be no difference in the technical  data .
 Maybe a sales gimmick.  Or a typo when they made the labels.  . If your buying get  directly from
UNI -T . and request voltage etc.

The "E" model is the only thing I find listed at the UNI-T site and I downloaded the manual which shows an "E" model in the cover photo.  The power brick is listed in it as a universal 100-240Vrms 50/60Hz 0.4A unit, so marking the unit with an "E" because it's a European/English market edition doesn't make sense for multiple reasons - the language can be chosen in the menu anyway, the power brick is universal, and even with an "E" marking that still doesn't distinguish between the various plugs needed on the power brick for various countries.

Firmware versions match between "E" and non-"E" units, but who knows about hardware changes.  It can't be that they upgraded the crappy BNC jacks detailed here because that person shows an "E" model in his photos.

As I've said previously, letter suffixes on UNI-T multimeters have significant meanings and an "E" suffix doesn't indicate a European/English market edition.  Too bad straight answers from China-based manufacturers are unobtainium.

I contacted UNI-T via e-mail address displayed on their website, and asked about the difference between UTG962 and UTG962E.

The answer was that "UTG962E is the international version, UTG962 is the Chinese domestic version."

I think I'm going to order the "E" version. I doubt there is any difference between the two, except for the letter "E" on the front panel.

My UTG962  (without the E) came as default Chinese . Just used the Google translator on my phone to change to English 
 The Calibration is OK . Not to NASA standard but well within Spec sheet  +_   
 Checked with a 6.5 digit HP Meter . Good value for the price .

[Jukka]

I have updated my "Tool to control UNIT-T UTG900 Waveform generator" https://github.com/jarjuk/UTG900 with the  support to upload arb files.

Issues fixed:

    UTG900.py arb internal waveform, implementation missing

    UTG900.py arb external waveform, implementation not working

Known issues:
        README.org: API -usage documentation should be enhanced
        UTG900.py arb external waveform file, format documentation missing


Kudos to:

• https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=768710 jldr for patch fixing arb data upload
• https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=127399 axel for providing arb test file

[Diabolo]

If I recall, didn't the E stand for European/English market edition ? ..pre-configured / accessoried up for this region or some such thing ?

Hello,
"E" stands for "Export", which is the version of Exporting out of China.

Regards

[fremen67]

I received my UTG932E yesterday. I am impressed by the build quality for the price ! 

The CPU is a Gigadevice GD32F207ZCT6 (crazy what you can do with isopropanol and a good view angle).

The firmware is not protected... I could not resist ...

After dumping the code I was able to extract the SCPI commands that are recognized by the device. That could come handy when trying to remote control the device.
Some of them still need to be identified.

The commands are:

Code: [Select]

*IDN
*RST
CHANnel<n>:AMPLitude:UNIT
CHANnel<n>:ARB:INDex
CHANnel<n>:ARB:SOURce
CHANnel<n>:BASE:AMPLitude
CHANnel<n>:BASE:DUTY
CHANnel<n>:BASE:FREQuency
CHANnel<n>:BASE:HIGH
CHANnel<n>:BASE:LOW
CHANnel<n>:BASE:OFFSet
CHANnel<n>:BASE:PERiod
CHANnel<n>:BASE:PHASe
CHANnel<n>:BASE:WAVe
CHANnel<n>:FM:FREQuency:DEV
CHANnel<n>:FSK:HOPPing:FREQuency
CHANnel<n>:INVersion
CHANnel<n>:LIMit:ENABle
CHANnel<n>:LIMit:LOWer
CHANnel<n>:LIMit:UPPer
CHANnel<n>:LOAD
CHANnel<n>:MODe
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:ARB:INDex
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:ARB:SOURce
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:DEPTh
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:FREQuency
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:SOURce
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:WAVe
CHANnel<n>:OUTPut
CHANnel<n>:OUTPut:SYNC
CHANnel<n>:PM:PHASe:DEV
CHANnel<n>:PULSe:FALL
CHANnel<n>:PULSe:RISe
CHANnel<n>:SWEep:FREQuency:STARt
CHANnel<n>:SWEep:FREQuency:STOP
CHANnel<n>:SWEep:TIMe
CRC
CVER
DISPlay
DISPlay:Data
IDN
KEY:<k>
KEY:<k>:LED
RP<n>:ADDR<a>
SCPI
SYNC<n>:CMD<a>
SYSTem:BEEP
SYSTem:BRIGhtness
SYSTem:CONFigure
SYSTem:CYMometer
SYSTem:CYMometer:DUTY
SYSTem:CYMometer:FREQuency
SYSTem:CYMometer:PERiod
SYSTem:ERR
SYSTem:INFo
SYSTem:LANGuage
SYSTem:LOCK
SYSTem:NUMBer:FORMat
SYSTem:PHASe:MODe
SYSTem:SLEEP:TIMe
UPDate
WARB<n>:CARRier
WARB<n>:MODulate
WFILE
WP<n>:ADDR<a>

 You will find more details in the pdf attached to this post.

I also monitored the traffic between the CPU and the 24LC64 eeprom and dumped the eeprom. Interesting as my UTG932E turned now to be a UTG962E.

The 496 first bytes of the eeprom are used to store the current configuration. The model definition is store at the end of the eeprom (see print screen). I did not find the serial number in it.
As the model type (30 or 60Mhz) is stored in the eeprom and the eeprom is only connected to the CPU, there might be a possibility that a SCPI command could change the model. I modified it the hard way with my TL866 programmer but this would of course be more convenient via SCPI.

Enjoy!

Edit: Reduced pictures size

[ataradov]

That is a sanding/etching fail. Not locking the device is even bigger fail. I tried on mine with water and alcohol, but could not see anything.

Fortunately the UI here is more of less tolerable to go into trouble of creating an alternative firmware.

[fremen67]

Fortunately the UI here is more of less tolerable to go into trouble of creating an alternative firmware.

Yes. There are only 2 things that I find annoying regarding the UI: the way the frequency digits are truncated for frequencies > 1Mhz and the encoder direction when selecting the next line. You have to decrease to go to the next line 

[JamesLynton]

Nice score, this could open up some hacking options.
They really failed on locking that lot down, sloppy. But good for us

[ledtester]

Just wanted to pass along that Tony Albus (tonyalbus here on the forum) posted a youtube video where he tried to make the UTG962E work from an external reference.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3556901/#msg3556901

It wasn't a success, however.

The internal reference is 50 MHz making it somewhat inconvenient to substitute with an external signal.

Probing of the reference chip starts around the 25 minute mark.

[mnementh]

Yeah, Tony has a few other attack vectors he wanted to try as suggested in the TEA thread; I intended to post in here if any of it panned out.

@fremen67: Well done ID-ing the CPU and dumping the EEPROM/SCPI command table. This could very quickly become one of the most hackable budget instruments yet. 

mnem
 

[tonyalbus]

UNI-T UTG962E with external ref is working!..
It was indeed a ground problem... silly mistake , but it works now, thanks for pointing that out.
Spoiler: i connected my ADF4351 LCD and MAX2870 LCD but they do not output enough power, so its only working now on my 6 Channel PLL,
but is was a nice try.. so if you can amplify that 500 mV to 1,5 Volts.. you have it working cheaper.
still that 50 MHz is not convenient for ext. ref.

[Mechatrommer]

still that 50 MHz is not convenient for ext. ref.

maybe future task will be 5X PLL from 10MHz rubidium of GPSDO ref

[Labrat101]

The Leo Bodnar GPSDO can outPUT 50Mhz or any frequency up to 800Mhz from its second channel.  Which is handy I use 1st channel for 10Mhz . So 50Mhz from 2nd will go nice with my UTG 962 . . and with external input Ref should make very Accurate
It was one on my todo project list.
Just doing an overhaul on my Fluke 515A .
Thanks great work ..

[tonyalbus]

still that 50 MHz is not convenient for ext. ref.

maybe future task will be 5X PLL from 10MHz rubidium of GPSDO ref

That is more or less what i did.. my 6 channel pll is ofcourse connected to 10MHz ref ... GPSDO
for me the 50MHz is no problem, i was just looking for a cheaper solution for others.

[TESSET]

Good!Thanks!

[BugCatcher]

Hi Tony,

I had a similar problem! I was looking for a cheap replacement for an expensive 100MHz OCXO. Final solution was a 20MHz OCXO in combination with an IDT570 clock multiplier. I divided the 20MHz by 4 -> 5MHz and configured the IDT570 to 20x -> 100MHz

Your configuration would be a single D-FF (10MHz -> 5MHz) and the IDT570 configured for 10x -> 50MHz
All you need is a D-FF and the IDT570 (8pin SO, 2.4€ at Mouser), no external components! Remaining open issue is the input buffer for the 10MHz signal.
Should easily fit on a tiny PCB ... even inside the UTG962! Jitter performance of the IDT570 looks good ... at least for my understanding ;-)

Happy clocking      BugCatcher

[tonyalbus]

Yes cool idea!... for now i am okey with my pll connected to gpsdo... but your option is a lot cheaper, thanks!

[BugCatcher]

Hi Tony,

I'm eager to understand the real performance/resolution of the UTG962. The manual shows 0.1Hz resolution at 10MHz (0.01ppm). Is this the real resolution?
Your 10MHz are looking "bang on"! Keep in mind that this is a b.c. scenario (exact 20 samples per period).

I would recommend the following test:

- increase the 10MHz manually in steps of 0.1Hz
- check the precise frequency on your high resolution counter (connected to the same reference!)
- observe the spectrum on an SDR-receiver (A1 audio and waterfall spectrum), cheap spectrum analyzer are not good enough

- frequency deviations would prove arithmetic limitations of the DDS (insufficient word length of phase increment and accumulator)
- you can overcome missing frequency resolution by random switching between two different phase increments
      -> looks like FSK modulation, no longer single carrier !!! (level of unwanted sidebands is defined by modulation index)

I did a similar test with a MHS3200A function generator. Found that the lowest 2-3 digits of the frequency were "decoration"!
The ADALM2000 from Analog Devices is using a random switching approach (the integrated spectrum analyzer was not sensitive enough to detect the sidebands!).

Happy clocking          BugCatcher

[tonyalbus]

Hi Tony,

I'm eager to understand the real performance/resolution of the UTG962. The manual shows 0.1Hz resolution at 10MHz (0.01ppm). Is this the real resolution?
Your 10MHz are looking "bang on"! Keep in mind that this is a b.c. scenario (exact 20 samples per period).

I would recommend the following test:

- increase the 10MHz manually in steps of 0.1Hz
- check the precise frequency on your high resolution counter (connected to the same reference!)
- observe the spectrum on an SDR-receiver (A1 audio and waterfall spectrum), cheap spectrum analyzer are not good enough

- frequency deviations would prove arithmetic limitations of the DDS (insufficient word length of phase increment and accumulator)
- you can overcome missing frequency resolution by random switching between two different phase increments
      -> looks like FSK modulation, no longer single carrier !!! (level of unwanted sidebands is defined by modulation index)

I did a similar test with a MHS3200A function generator. Found that the lowest 2-3 digits of the frequency were "decoration"!
The ADALM2000 from Analog Devices is using a random switching approach (the integrated spectrum analyzer was not sensitive enough to detect the sidebands!).

Happy clocking          BugCatcher

Nice test!

i will play first with the Juntek PSG9080 .. just in.
have the WhiteLabel (saves you around 30 dollar)..but is seems very original, or the have send a real one by mistake..
keep an eye on the channel.

PSG9080 WhiteLabel - Ali: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AP5w9r
PSG9080 Org AliExpress: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_9y5dEl
PSG9080 - BangGood : https://www.banggood.com/custlink/mmDYOlkDEV

now you know why i mostly hang-out in the TEA section here . 

[BugCatcher]

Hi Tony,

impressive device!
I would start with the lowest frequency  ...   1nHz      one period is equal 31.7 years   ;-) 
UPS (uninterruptible power source) is a must!

Have Fun        BugCatcher

[Labrat101]

Hi Tony,

impressive device!
I would start with the lowest frequency  ...   1nHz      one period is equal 31.7 years   ;-) 
UPS (uninterruptible power source) is a must!

Have Fun        BugCatcher

I have a funny feeling it might fail before one finishes that test ..
May need a backup test plan.

[Mechatrommer]

i will play first with the Juntek PSG9080 .. just in.

now they are listening. the numeric keypads is most welcomed. i might consider buying that brand if they've put the keypad on earlier version.

I would start with the lowest frequency  ...   1nHz      one period is equal 31.7 years   ;-) 
UPS (uninterruptible power source) is a must!

I have a funny feeling it might fail before one finishes that test ..
May need a backup test plan.

I have a funny feeling someone will go to the trouble to test it unknowingly/happily/proudly wasting half of his lifetime⁽¹⁾. the backup plan i think is called wisdom, its clearly a marketing gimmick. no affordable battery afaik that you can put in a UPS that can last 31yrs, not even close.

now you know why i mostly hang-out in the TEA section here . 

very understandable!^(~1) 

[Labrat101]

I would not worry about the Battery . The Power supply and the components will more likely fail a few minutes after
the warrantee*(1)  . So I would make all the tests on the highest frequencies first . 
Also take into account that it may have fake or low grade components . The Box may out last the years or so .

 *(1) Chinese warrantee  1 year .. Not stating Which Year .     

[radiolistener]

i will play first with the Juntek PSG9080 .. just in.
have the WhiteLabel (saves you around 30 dollar)..but is seems very original, or the have send a real one by mistake..
keep an eye on the channel.

What means white label?

my one has this label. In Hz mode it has 0.001 Hz resolution and change least significant digit affect the output frequency. Tested it by phase comparison on oscilloscope. Also I can see difference between 90.000 Hz, 90.001 Hz and 90.002 Hz on my Brymen 867, I don't have freq meter with better resolution. PSG9080 allows to select also mHz and uHz mode, but I didn't tested it.

[tonyalbus]

i will play first with the Juntek PSG9080 .. just in.
have the WhiteLabel (saves you around 30 dollar)..but is seems very original, or the have send a real one by mistake..
keep an eye on the channel.

What means white label?

my one has this label. In Hz mode it has 0.001 Hz resolution and change least significant digit affect the output frequency. Tested it by phase comparison on oscilloscope. Also I can see difference between 90.000 Hz, 90.001 Hz and 90.002 Hz on my Brymen 867, I don't have freq meter with better resolution. PSG9080 allows to select also mHz and uHz mode, but I didn't tested it.

The seller does not mention the name JUNTEK, only the type... selles it cheaper than all others..
not the name JUNTEK on the box... but the sticket says JUNTEK...
Stay tuned......  what generator is in the box... does that say JUNTEK or is it also without name?

[radiolistener]

my one is branded Juntek.

Their price on aliexpress is about 140 EUR. They all exactly the same from the same factory. The difference is just a seller margin.

What is your firmware version? 1.20?

[tonyalbus]

Waterfall on the siglent okey

25 MHz + 0.1 Hz

[BugCatcher]

Hi Tony,

thank you for the first results!
I found my old data for the MHS5200A. Test setup was very simple. Channel 1 connected to ext. input (frequency counter). This generator can run frequency counter and DDS in parallel.
There is an unexpected difference of approx. 7ppm. Root cause is a hidden factory calibration. Correction is applied for the DDS but not for the counter.
Close to 20MHz I scanned manually a 50Hz range in steps of 1Hz (user interface would allow 10mHz steps). The results show the frequency readings from the internal counter (10s gate, 0.1Hz resolution). The results are fully repeatable ... there is neither temperature nor noise in the game!

What can we see?

-  50 different frequency settings result in only 17 different output frequencies (with full 10mHz resolution: 5000 versus 17)
      =>   FAKE resolution !!!

-  the mapping between input settings and output frequencies is not a simple quantization
      =>   there must be an additional implementation problem around the used arithmetic
                       (e.g. insufficient precision of 32bit float)

Hope your new device is performing well and not showing nasty effects  ;-)

       BugCatcher

[radiolistener]

Waterfall on the siglent okey

25 MHz + 0.1 Hz

Can you please show more wide span? too see at least second and third harmonics.

For example try span 200 MHz

[OnAironaut]

I can't seem to get a sinusoidal waveform from 2 V to 8 V. The device automatically decreases the "Amp" setting as soon as I start increasing the "Offset". Is it possible to generate such a waveform with this function generator? Am I doing something wrong? Have I misunderstood the specs? Thank you!

[tonyalbus]

@OnAironaut Could have something to do with the frequency... i think on higher frequencies usually the Amplitude is limited. Try the same on lower Freq.
Nice siglent scope 

[OnAironaut]

Thanks! It was the frequency, indeed. 2V to 8V sine works fine at 10 MHz. Too bad I need 28.8 MHz. Oh, well...

[TimNJ]

Amplifiers are often (almost always?) compensated to keep them stable. That is, the bandwidth, or gain at high frequency is limited to keep it from oscillating/introducing distortion.


If you don't want to think about bandwidth, you can think about voltage slew-rate, or dv/dt limitation. As frequency increases, holding amplitude constant, the maximum dv/dt of a given sine wave increases. As amplitude increases, holding frequency constant, the dv/dt also increases. So, if you are operating at the amplifiers maximum dv/dt, then if you want to increase frequency, you need to decrease amplitude, and vice versa.


Probably some inaccuracies in this explanation, but that's how I think of it.

[citek]

Today I bought it on Aliexpress UNI-T UTG932 at a price of $ 92.65

https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005002123556463.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.264d33edYwlr5N&_ga=2.143989117.975399791.1621537389-1483764166.1581361935&_gac=1.191563224.1618653684.CjwKCAjwjuqDBhAGEiwAdX2cj-0xA4ywAmhSNqkU6xA-HpT4-Ab3mgeHQ4i9g6A2gXzK2h0kPH5xNBoCXwEQAvD_BwE

[radiolistener]

I can't seem to get a sinusoidal waveform from 2 V to 8 V. The device automatically decreases the "Amp" setting as soon as I start increasing the "Offset". Is it possible to generate such a waveform with this function generator?

I think it may not be possible, because min and max value is limited by absolute Voltage against zero, and if you add offset it cannot increase max limit.

[Labrat101]

Check the settings under settings options in the menu . The min & max can be changed.  They maybe still on the defaults.

[tonyalbus]

@radiolist

[radiolistener]

tonyalbus

-34 dBc for 2'nd and -29 dBc for 3'rd  - it's horrible. Does it have anti-aliasing low pass filter on the output?   

[IAmBack]

A 3 AWGs and the one  oscilloscope story here.
All three AWGs were connected do the scope (SDS2104x plus):  UTG962 (yellow line), SDS2104x plus gen (blue line), and SDG2042 (purple line). Frequencies were set to 35MHz and fine - tuned to get as stable plots as possible. Blue plot is sync source, therefore it is rock solid.
Purple plot's frequency is slightly off - therefore it flows slowly (but it's "movement" is stable, sort of "majestatic').
Yellow plot jumps here and there, showing UTG962 higher phase noise. Hopefully attached GIF will animate correctly here.
Maybe someone will find it useful...

p.s.(edit)
Zip file attached with animated GIF inside. Just in case.

[BugCatcher]

Hi,
excellent observation!

Now we have a few questions:
- is this a HW-bug (e.g. due to "out of lock" of the 20MHz -> 200MHz PLL)
- is this a "nasty" design feature (e.g. to offer high resolution at high frequencies)
I would recommend following tests (one Siglent generator is sufficient):
- one period of sine is an integer number of samples (e.g. 50, 40, 25, 20, ... MHz) *
  don't apply fine-tuning on the UTG side! Tune the Siglent!
  -> if an above frequency is clean, repeat with a modified frequency (e.g. add a random offset in the range of 10kHz)
- what happens at lower frequencies (e.g. 3.5MHz or even lower) ? 
No need for videos. Persistence mode is sufficient!
Other approach would be the use of a high resolution / high dynamic range spectrum analyzer or an SDR (software defined radio) in waterfall mode.

* there could be a hidden problem: calibration factor (if available) must be equal "1"

BugCatcher

[1audio]

There is a seemingly honest review on Amazon suggesting much lower harmonics:
"Spectral purity - here's where most of the inexpensive generators fall flat. The 962 is not without problems. On the plus side, the specs call for harmonics of the fundamental output to be a minimum of -40dB down for 30MHz to 60MHz. I generally found harmonics to be around -60dB down or better for all frequencies. It is impressive. "

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RL2C0ECIUCE59/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B08PQCFG4M

I'm interested in the "flatness" of its response. Has anyone measured it?

[ВАДИМ]

good day. IT IS POSSIBLE TO TAKE A HEX FILE FROM YOU FOR eeprom 24LC64. stasukov.v@mail.ru

[Serg_D]

Hello! Purchased UTG962 without the letter E in the designation. The default language was English. When you reset to factory settings, the English language is saved. In the System/About menu, the model is listed as UTG900.
There's a problem with the software on your Windows 10 computer. The driver is inserted, the device in the system is detected, but Devices Manager does not find the generator.
I tried on another computer with Windows 7, it works normally there. Did anyone put software on Windows 10? How did you manage to defeat the problem?

[Labrat101]

Hello! Purchased UTG962 without the letter E in the designation. The default language was English. When you reset to factory settings, the English language is saved. In the System/About menu, the model is listed as UTG900.
There's a problem with the software on your Windows 10 computer. The driver is inserted, the device in the system is detected, but Devices Manager does not find the generator.
I tried on another computer with Windows 7, it works normally there. Did anyone put software on Windows 10? How did you manage to defeat the problem?

yes it works in windows 10

[Serg_D]

yes it works in windows 10

And what order of installation did you do?
I was just running the Devices Manager Installer.exe installation file. The same thing I did on a computer with Windows 7 and everything worked. On a Windows 10 computer, I tried running as an Administrator and tried compatibility modes with other versions of OS. Nothing helped

[Labrat101]

yes it works in windows 10

And what order of installation did you do?
I was just running the Devices Manager Installer.exe installation file. The same thing I did on a computer with Windows 7 and everything worked. On a Windows 10 computer, I tried running as an Administrator and tried compatibility modes with other versions of OS. Nothing helped

I don't exactly remember I just followed the instruction in a readme file.
I did it about 9 months ago .and it just worked .

[Serg_D]

I don't exactly remember I just followed the instruction in a readme file.

I followed that instruction, too. But the drivers in the folder "DriverPack_Libusb" were not installed because of the error "DPInst.exe cannot be installed on this operating system." On a Windows 7 computer, these drivers also did not install due to a similar error, but nevertheless the software itself worked completely.
Divers from the "VISA Driver 5.4" folder were also not installed on both computers, but apparently they were already in the system, since there were no errors during their installation.
In general, I am completely perplexed why this software does not work for 10.

[Caliaxy]

I can't seem to get a sinusoidal waveform from 2 V to 8 V. The device automatically decreases the "Amp" setting as soon as I start increasing the "Offset". Is it possible to generate such a waveform with this function generator? Am I doing something wrong? Have I misunderstood the specs? Thank you!

I know it's a two-month-old question...

Since the outputs of UNI-T UTG932 are isolated from the mains ground, have you tried to add the 5V offset with a power supply in series with the output (ground of the BNC generator output connected to (+) of the power supply, output signal between the BNC center pin and (-) of the power supply)?

[Serg_D]

So, there's no movement on my problem. I wrote a request for a problem on the support@uni-trend.com.cn, there has been no answer for several days. Tried reinstalling the application, not helping. Then the device driver flew off and did not put in any way. In the system, the device was defined as UTG900 without drivers. Pitched it to the folder DriverPack_Libusb, says that no driver was found in this folder. When installing Devices Manager Installer.exe, I see that the PL2303_v130 driver is installed (1.3.0?) This already leads to bad thoughts about Chinese clones of PL2303 that are not supported by the official chip manufacturer. Who disassembled the device, what is there with the USB driver?
As a result, I found another computer with Windows 10 on board to check the health of the software. After installation, the program successfully identified the generator and I was able to manage it. As a result, I pulled the driver from this computer and manually installed it on a computer where the driver flew and the software did not work. The device driver was successfully installed, the device is now defined, but the program is still not working.
This led to the idea that the operating system itself does not allow access to the USB port. At the same time, I do not receive any mistakes. I tried to install Devices Manager with Windows Firewall exceptions, but this did not help either.
Guys! Maybe from my confused story someone can understand the reason for what is happening and help me defeat this problem? Friends advise me to clean up the operating system. But I do not want such radical measures yet. At the same time, I will lose the software I installed. And his recovery is both a loss of time and extra nerves. Yes, and I have no confidence that this will help.

[Labrat101]

There is a possibility that the other windows 10 was a different version . and or there maybe a problem with your motherboard itself. Windows 10 is crappy since they did a load of updates . Windows does not check the system at all well and can install
wrong drivers not uncommon as some M/B are not always 100% compat
I moved over to Linux about 12yrs ago .
but my Laptop IBM Lenovo has win10  which did work with the UTG962 (900 series ) I had already had NI visa installed as far as
I can remember . I would try uninstalling it and use NI visa as its a newer version the the on from china .
Also when you down load from UNI -T make sure you D/L the write program there are several versions in the (900 series)
 But suspect its your wind10 . also disable your antivirus . & Defender  Your antivirus could be eating your driver 
If you are paranoic load the entire program and drivers into a folder on your deck top . Shut down your Antivirus  completely .
Uninstall what you have . reboot the computer  . make sure the antivirus is still disabled  . turn your internet off wifi .. cable.
reinstall the UNI-T program  again . reboot after install .  this may solve your problem ..
 

[Serg_D]

And laughter and sin!
The seller replied to me that he had consulted with "technicians" and they advise me to use another computer. And with Windows 7. 

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on the purchase of the 962.

There are a few questions that I still have that can be answered by someone here in the forum if they would do a particular setup for me.

I'm looking at an FM signal with CH 1 @ 50MHz modulated by a 400Hz tone and a deviation of ±75KHz.

Can someone here do that setup and report as to the abilities of the generator?

I currently own 2 FY6900's that can do that setup but the lack of a numeric keypad and small screen make an upgrade desirable. (Not to mention that a "repair sine" was necessary) Thanks.

[Serg_D]

FM signal with CH 1 @ 50MHz modulated by a 400Hz tone and a deviation of ±75KHz]

I tried to set these parameters on my UTG962. Everything works.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

I believe you but can you post a screen shot?
I just have to make sure that it is as you say because I want to make sure that the specifications are actually understood and not lost in my translation from my head to text. I have to convince some other people to invest in the UNI-T. Thanks.

By the way Tony you're an evil man. I watched you tear open a perfectly good "Ziplock" bag to get at the accessories for that UNI-T. Just my OCD kicking in!
After a careful review and magnification, you in fact tore open a heat sealed bag. No zip bag crime was committed. I stand corrected


I don't need the external 10MHz accuracy that you seem to have perfected. Just "analog accuracy" but thanks for the videos.

[IAmBack]

Another comparison of Siglent Sdg2042x and UTG962, with spectrum analyzer. UTG exhibits extra "spikes", confirming my earlier  time-domain tests.

[Serg_D]

I believe you but can you post a screen shot?

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

Wow that works! Thanks for providing the screenshots, especially the last one.
I'll order mine tonight as far as the others, I will forward them the successful setup you provided.
They will be on their own to order theirs.

[BugCatcher]

Very interesting!

The spacing of the unwanted spectral lines ("spikes") is about 750kHz. The fixed switching frequency of the onboard XL6008 DC/DC converter is 400kHz (320 ...480)  -> no AM modulation due to supply ripple!

I'm back to my old theory:
A DDS-core has two key parameters
- clock speed (e.g. 200MHz for UTG962)
- frequency resolution
The second one is defining the required word length of the phase accu. There is a simple (nasty?) trick to relax this requirement
- reduced word length of the phase accu (e.g. by 8bits)
- implement a switching between two frequency words (equivalent to phase increment). The difference is equal to one LSB
Let's map this to the UTG962 device:
a realistic implementation could be
- switching frequency   200MHz/256  =  781.25kHz (equivalent to a 256 clock cycle)
- fine-tuning is applied by the duty cycle of the switching signal (8 bit additional frequency resolution)
The result is an "average frequency" with higher resolution. The price you have is pay are the additional side lobes / spectral lines due to FSK modulation.
If we claim the additional spectral lines as harmonics, then we are still within the UTG962 spec ... BINGO !!!

Keep in mind that the UTG962 is a low cost entry level device!

          ===   You get what you pay for!   ===

PS:   Please verify the spacing of the spectral lines. Do we really have 781.25kHz? 
        Small change of frequency should result in different amplitudes of the unwanted spectral lines. Can you confirm this?   
     

[IAmBack]

I can do further measurements in a 2..3 weeks.
To be clear, I really like UTG. It is very useful tool (good enough not only for Australia   ). I noticed these "feature" when I wanted to plot Lissajous figure on the scope, and was not able to get stable image, and wanted to figure out "wth" is going on.

[BugCatcher]

One comment regarding "instable Lissajous figures"
This effect has a partially deterministic root cause. The frequency grid of the "human interface" is in steps of e.g. 10mHz or 100mHz.
The DDS-core has a step size of   f-clock / 2^ "word length of phase accu"    -> need for mapping/quantization
This would explain a "smooth drift"  ... not the observed nasty jitter!

example:
  f-clock = 200MHz
  32bit word length
  ->   step size = 200MHz / 2^32 = 0.046566... Hz
  wanted frequency (entered via "human interface")   10 100 000.0Hz
  assuming correct arithmetic and rounding would result in an
  frequency error of -0.021Hz   (relative error  -2.1e-9)

  btw: in combination with an GPSDO you can achieve a "stable"
         but not a "bang on correct" frequency!

Examples for the Lissajous figures:
   Channel 1:   10MHz
   Channel 2:   5, 15, 20, 25, 30, ...   MHz
   -> all frequencies are impacted by the above rounding/quantization -> all figures should drift!


After checking the available photos of the PCB of the UTG962 I could find another potential root cause for the unwanted "side bands".
Close to the crystal oscillator (marked "B10QT"  ... no data found) is a cluster of passive elements. Under the assumption that this oscillator is voltage controlled, these elements could be a low pass filter for a PWM signal (factory calibration!). A 8bit PWM@200MHz with insufficient low pass filter could also cause the observed side bands!

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

I wish I could do any measurement. My delivery date is way out till September.
The Pacific ocean must have dried up.


Quote from: IAmBack on 2021-07-31, 15:56:14

I can do further measurements in a 2..3 weeks.

[de_light]

Interesting that you could effectively 'unlock' the 60MHz option. Have you tested the device at these frequencies after being unlocked?

[ed1380]

if anyone is on the fence it's $109 on ali for a few more days.

[de_light]

Is an alternative firmware being developed for this?

[Johnny B Good]

@tonyalbus

 Harking back to your posting in May (reply #208, page 9), a cost effective solution to generate the required 50MHz from the 10MHz external reference would be to use a 3N503 clock multiplier chip to generate a 3.3v logic level low jitter 50MHz clock.

 If (a big 'if' in this case) the 50MHz XO chip is using the 4th pin as an EFC input to allow recalibration via a hidden option in the UI, as is the case with the SDG1000X and SDG2000X series of Siglent AWGs, this offers you an even cheaper option to phase lock the internal oscillator to your 10MHz reference using a 74HC390 and a 74HC86, saving on the relatively high cost of a 3N503, neatly avoiding the change-over switch and any need to power cycle the generator to effect changes between the internal and external sources.

 When I was contemplating how best to add an external reference socket to my much modded FY6600-60M after having first removed its crappy 50MHz xo chip (struggling with a 25W Antex and breaking its output pin in the process - nice work with the hot air gun, btw - thinking, "Well, that'll be one bit of electronic waste that's going to do more good than harm by going into 'land-fill' and good riddance too!") to upgrade to a 50MHz 0.1ppm TCXO oscillator board which I then upgraded to a 10MHz OCXO feeding a 3N503 soldered into the vacated xo location, as per Arthur Dent's contribution to the FY6600 topic thread (reply #144, page 6) this issue of the FPGA locking up by using a mechanical change-over switch became my over-riding concern.

 An article I'd seen on injection locking a Wein bridge oscillator reminded me of the susceptibility of oscillators in general to such accidental injection locking through careless circuit layout and/or lack of power rail decoupling which inspired me to experimenting with this method of locking my OCXO to the external reference to avoid disrupting the FPGA's clock, eliminating the change-over switch and any need to power cycle the generator.

 If I had procrastinated just a little more, as I usually do, It may have dawned on me that the OCXO I'd installed could be phase locked to the external reference to achieve this goal of automatic glitchless change over between the external and internal clock references and the title of my

 "Injection locking the 10Mhz OCXO to external reference (upgrading a FY6600)"

 topic thread would have been something like,

 "Phase locking the 10Mhz OCXO to external reference (upgrading a FY6600)" instead.

 All I can say is that I did get this to work (and quite nicely at that) but I would suggest that the PLL method would be the better way to go since there's no need to incorporate a 45pf trimmer to fine tune a simple series resonant crystal filter element or to optimise the injection signal level as I'd had to do with my own injection locking project.

My initial concerns over dealing with the PLL's effect on the manually trimmed EFC voltage in the absence or loss of the external reference frequency turned out to be baseless in the case of an XOR based phase detector. As per usual, I had overthought the problem, neglecting the simple charm of an XOR based PLL as described below.

 Under such conditions, the output of this simple phase detector circuit after the LPF (loop filter) will revert to a mid voltage output. This can be fed to the EFC pin via a resistor (the resistor in the RC LPF will usually suffice in this case) and as long as the trimming pot has a highish impedance, the PLL output under locked conditions simply adds or subtracts a control voltage to the manually set voltage from the calibration trimpot which usually needs to be well padded out anyway (neatly fulfilling the 'highish impedance' requirement) in order to permit the very fine adjustments, typically called for in the case of an OCXO, to be realised with reasonable ease.

 The main motivation for upgrading these FeelTech AWGs to an internal OCXO seems to have been the 14 digit frequency display permitting adjustment in μHz increments throughout its full frequency range (I've already verified that the last digit of adjustment is real rather than merely cosmetic as one might be tempted to believe to be the case in such a cheap Chinese "toy AWG").

 In fact, after testing the SDG2042X 10MHz sine output frequency accuracy against its external 10MHz reference input, I have a strong suspicion that the FeelTech is a clone of the Siglent's FPGA and firmware since they both show the same 1 second of drift per 1.8 milion years rounding error for this 'non magical' output frequency.

 From the observations made here, the UTG932 is clearly not in the same league as far frequency setting resolution goes (the nine digit frequency display is not the cause but merely the consequence of the lower resolution available from the FPGA's firmware in this case).

 I think the main appeal of the UTG932 over the FY6900-60M despite its technical shortcomings, is its 'Cuteness' and the fact that it isn't a FeelTech/FeelElec product.

[Johnny B Good]

still that 50 MHz is not convenient for ext. ref.

maybe future task will be 5X PLL from 10MHz rubidium of GPSDO ref

 Were you thinking of the 3N503 clock multiplier chip by any chance? 

[Johnny B Good]

no affordable battery afaik that you can put in a UPS that can last 31yrs, not even close.

 What! Not even an LFP battery pack? 

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

It has arrived and the menu is a bit more convoluted compared to the FY6900 structure.
It works and does broadcast FM at the proper deviation as expected.

WHERE is the menu setting for saving custom setups! No where to be found. Really?

Quote from: Quarlo Klobrigney on 2021-08-11, 00:40:21

I wish I could do any measurement. My delivery date is way out till September.
The Pacific ocean must have dried up.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

I am not impressed. The generator is utterly useless.
My 2 FY6900's are light years cleaner that this piece of junk.
The trash that this thing produces is off the scale.
I use the FY6900 to align vintage radios and it is fairly clean.
This thing when just the ground is attached to chassis ground causes the DUT radio to receive trash. Hooking the thing up to the antenna or other points obliterated the fundamental generated frequency. Now...how do I get a refund?

[Johnny B Good]

@Quarlo Klobrigney

 The usual way to get a refund is simply to advise the seller that the item as supplied is "not fit for purpose" and give them a chance to resolve the situation amicably. Since I don't know from whom you purchased this, I've no idea how successful this will be but, if they feel they have a reputation to protect, they should either offer a replacement or a full refund according to your preferred solution.

 On the thankfully few occasions that I've had to claim a replacement or refund from ebay sellers, the process has usually been straightforward and even Banggood have been little trouble in obtaining similar refunds on DoA kit.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

With Banggood, it's all about the deniability.
That's why I haven't ordered from them for 2-3 years now.
Fool me once shame on me for trusting you.
They shoved it deep on the last order back then.

I don't suppose Aliexpress, now that the time is up in the shipping, let alone testing, will be any better.
I once had "show us the missing pieces in a photo" You can't make this stuff up....
I just wish someone here could test the device as I used it, see the garbage emanating as I did, in order to have corroboration for my return story....

[Johnny B Good]

 Well, if it's just the noise that's an issue, the problem may simply be down to its supplied 5 volt 2A usb wallwart being a particularly noisy example. The supplied power lead is the rather useful USB A plug to barrel plug which allows you to test it with any of the commonly available 2.1A USB wallwarts or even a battery bank.

 If swapping to a different 5v DC power source affords any reduction in the noise, it might be worth rigging up an analogue 5v 2A rated voltage regulator powered off a 12v SLA to eliminate any questions over switching noise content in all the smpsu based sources of 5 volt DC power you may have to hand.

 Cheap 'n' Cheerful alternatives for time limited testing purposes could be a 6v lantern battery with a Si diode dropper or a three D cell heavy duty carbon/zinc or alkaline battery pack which should provide 4.8v when a fresh pack is used. Just check what voltage you actually obtain with a 10 ohm dummy load before plugging it in. The standard voltage tolerance for most 5v kit is +/-10% (4.5 to 5.5 volt range) so this sort of battery should allow you to safely test without having to consider the imponderable issue of switching noise.

 The problem might simply be the supplied wallwart being a particularly shitty one. Perhaps it's simply missing the Y cap that returns the switching noise that's capacitively coupled from the high voltage primary across to the secondary of the step down/isolation transformer back to its origin to save it taking "the scenic route" via whatever its plugged into. This is the component that gives rise to the infamous half mains live "touch voltage" that afflicts all of these class II smpsu DC power supplies (typically wallwarts but also including the psu boards used in the Feeltech FY6600 models onwards, as well as their earlier FG models).

 If the supplied wallwart proves to be the culprit, you'll probably have an easier time in persuading your supplier to ship you a replacement wallwart rather than having to ship out complete UTG962 or provide a full refund on return of the rejected kit.

[Labrat101]

You can just connect a ground wire to the top BNC of UTG962 outer case. this is what I do it seems to solve stray noise from the generator when working on delicate equipment.  The supplied power unit is not over good . .
Most of the time I run though an isolated power supply..

[BugCatcher]

Few days ago, I received my UTG962E ...

Here are the results of my first investigations

1)  could confirm the video-loop from IAmBack (Replay #236 June 25, 12:50 pm)
    - second reference was my old MHS5200A  (26bit DDS-core claim 200MHz, but running at 176MHz)
    - next step was a frequency measurement over time (10s gate time)
        -> observed instable results
        -> did time sequence for UTG962 and MHS5200A   picture: 20MHz_frequency_drift_comparison
           what can we see
           - frequency counter is good enough
           - MHS5200A is showing smooth frequency drift during heating up
           - UTG962 WTF ...
2)  let's do to frequency domain
    - FFT on my Rigol scope  ... no chance to see anything
    - my Perseus SDR (in spectrum mode) ... BINGO
        -> could see the unwanted side-bands (spacing approx 720kHz, not a function of carrier frequency)
           First conclusion:  this is not 200MHz/256!
           Second conclusion: can't be a simple PWM for crystal tuning
           Third conclusion:  must be an "internal algorithm"
           picture: spectrum_35MHz
    - checked also my old MHS5200A:  clean spectrum with reduced SNR (due to 12bit DAC) no side-bands at all!!!
3)  check the precision of frequency steps
    - how to do with an "instable signal"?
    - simple solution:   scope in X-Y mode and a hand operated stop-watch
      keep in mind: we have a dual channel function generator with same reference for both channels
      - set both channels to the same frequency (e.g. 50MHz)
      - check the scope for a stationary 1:1 Lissajous figure
      - offset one channel by e.g. 0.1Hz -> you should see one period in 1/0.1Hz = 10s
      - measure the time for multiple periods with your stop-watch
        -> very precise results with nearly no effort!
        Conclusion:  UTG962 looks perfect!
      - final: drift investigation with other frequency ratios:  1:2, 1:3, 2:3, 3:5, 5:7, ...
        - you get stationary figures
        - no change after 10 minutes   -> really perfect!
4)   the big question: what's going on?   ... let's investigate the carrier and the side-bands
     - Perseus in SDR-Radio mode, SSB-demodulation of a 25MHz carrier
     - wanted carrier:    sounds good, looks good                   picture: Carrier_25MHz
     - unwanted carriers: sound terrible (noise), look terrible     picture: first_sideband_25MHz
5)   compare the level of the unwanted signals with the spec of the UTG962
     - measured the level of the first unwanted side-band against the level of the wanted carrier
     - my Perseus is limited to 40MHz (14bit@80MHz ADC)
          picture:  sideband_dBc-versus_frequency
     - my problem: if you claim that the unwanted side-bands are harmonic, then my measurements are "close" to the specs (not really!)
           My concerns:  "harmonic" distortions should not impact frequency measurements
           They claim at 10MHz a phase noise below -125dBc/Hz @ 10kHz offset. What's the value of this statement? The devil sits at multiple of +/- 720kHz!             


My summary:

On the positive side
- compact device with impressive functionality and build quality
- easy to work with (graphical human interface with high resolution screen)
- good enough for at least 99.9% of all typical function generator use cases
- this is an entry level device with an excellent price/performance ratio

=> I will use this device  (my MHS5200A and a 50 years old Wavetek are now retired and in passive stand by)

On the critical side
- they invested enough to achieve an excellent frequency resolution
- they had limited resources to keep the unwanted side effects of the first point under the visibility limit (noisy side-bands)
- assume that a better (state of the art?) solution would require a more expensive FPGA
- performance could be critical for applications like precise reference clocks or measurements with highly selective filters

and on top
- there are many happy users ...  and  ...   it was hard to catch and analyze the impairments ;-)


PS:   comment regarding complaints from Quarlo Klobrigney
      - I confirm Labrat101 statement
      - had similar problems ... root cause was always lousy grounding (e.g. bad BNC-connections or cables)

[BugCatcher]

sorry, I lost 4 pictures ... will retry

[BugCatcher]

missing pictures

[Labrat101]

@ BugCatcher
Nice work .    Had no complaints with my UTG962 for the price to performance 
 The power supply is a bit noisy easy fix  .  & Earth

[Johnny B Good]

Few days ago, I received my UTG962E ...

Here are the results of my first investigations

1)  could confirm the video-loop from IAmBack (Replay #236 June 25, 12:50 pm)
    - second reference was my old MHS5200A  (26bit DDS-core claim 200MHz, but running at 176MHz)
    - next step was a frequency measurement over time (10s gate time)
        -> observed instable results
        -> did time sequence for UTG962 and MHS5200A   picture: 20MHz_frequency_drift_comparison
           what can we see
           - frequency counter is good enough
           - MHS5200A is showing smooth frequency drift during heating up
           - UTG962 WTF ...

====snip====

 That's very reminiscent of the vcxo jitter in an SDG1032X I'd purchased last November and returned for a full refund.

 I'd submitted plenty of screenshots and movies as evidence of the issue but there was a seeming complete and utter lack of understanding by all those involved so, in the end, I simply insisted on a full refund and return of the FG so I could go elsewhere for my SDG2042X I'd decided to upgrade to.

 I've attached a short movie file demonstrating the issue, using my FY6600-60M outputting a 10MHz sine and a Sinc wave on channels 1 and 4 respectively with the LPRO 101 thrown in for good measure on channel 3 as an independent source to show that neither that nor the FY6600 are responsible for this low frequency instability. The FY6600 was running from its internal 10MHz OCXO, not locked to anything.

 Actually, after checking the video again, It looks like I'd had my gpsdo reference plugged into it. I just spotted the BNC Tee adaptor. I think I'd have been comparing the GPSDO's output against the 10MHz sine output of the FY6600 and had simply borrowed the bnc patch lead that had been going to the 'scope anyway in order to run this test. Mind you, that's still two separate and independent reference sources to positively identify the guilty party, namely in this case, the brand spanking new SDG1032X (specifically its internal VCXO - connecting it to an external 10MHz reference whether the LPRO 101 or the gpsdo would completely eliminate this low frequency jitter).

 BTW eevblog's file type restrictions have obliged me to tack the .zip extension onto the end of the filename. Just rename it to get rid of this spurious extension before trying to play it.
 

[BugCatcher]

Found a bug!

My version is:   SW 1.09, HW 1.01, FPGA 1.07
Problem is the "start frequency" for the sweep mode.
In both modes ("line" and "log") the entered value for "start frequency" is always ignored. HW starts at 0Hz!

[BugCatcher]

I did further investigations regarding the 50MHz oscillator. The attached diagram shows the frequency deviation during a cold-start (4h observation period).
The measured frequency was a generated 4MHz sine.
What could I see:
- error for the final frequency is about -0.8ppm (my first measurement after unboxing:  -2.3ppm ... 4 weeks ago)
- deviation during the 4h is in the interval -0.96ppm ... -0.74ppm  -> total range for the cold-start  0.22ppm
=> that's excellent! There is at least a TCXO in the box.
   Could it be a factory calibrated VCTCXO?

I opened the box and investigated the suspect pin 1 of the oscillator:
- there was a 4k7 pull up connected to the power supply
- a measurement confirmed 3.3V
=> it's only a TCXO

The time diagram shows more details:
(please keep in mind: we are discussing sub 0.1ppm effects!)

1) oscillation with a peak-peak amplitude of 0.05ppm
   frequency of oscillation is slowing down
2) "noise" with +/- 0.01ppm

My interpretation for the first effect:
- TCXO internal temperature compensation is a digital implementation
  -> quantization (steps) for the measured temperature
  -> quantization (steps) for the generated frequency  -> I observed approx. 0.05ppm/step
  -> the frequency of the applied frequency steps is related to the amount of temperature drift (high rate after switching on)
 
My interpretation for the second effect:
- introduced by the algorithm for enhanced frequency resolution (dithering -> noise like deviation)

Summary:
- impact of TCXO is bigger ...                                             but with much lower probability!
- impact of algorithm for enhanced frequency resolution is smaller ...     but always present!
- both impacts are for 99.9% of all "Function Generator Applications" invisible!
- the bug with the lower frequency of the sweep range is more annoying ...

[Labrat101]

@ Bugcatcher

Did you run the tests with the supplied cheapo power supply ?
I found running my UTG962 from an Agilent 6612A power source removed 99% of all the noise .  (5.000v,  amps set to 1.5A . UTG962 draws about 990ma to 1.108 amps stabilizing @ 1.088v after about 20 minuets

 I found that it's about 99% accurate .  Taking into account that's its $100 equipment .

 25MHZ sine reads 24.999894 MHZ on a calibrated HP5385A only the last digit fluctuates .
 4MHZ sine reads 3.9999831 MHZ  @ 1vpp   +- 3 ^-7 (last digit)
 10MHZ sine Reads  9.9999580 MHZ @ 1vpp   +- 3 ^-7  (last digit)
My one is nearly a year old and I haven't seen any changes as such. 
 I think you are looking for a perfect  $10 TCXO ( probably more like $1 )
Personally I think it would be hard to find something as good that just works OUT the BOX .
For around $100 / $120

[BugCatcher]

@ Labrat101

I used the original power adapter @230V/50Hz.  Do you have 115V or 230V? 115V could be closer to the limit of the adapter.

My intention is not a perfect TCXO ... I'm eager to understand the root cause for the "unwanted jitter". Now we know two potential contributions ...
Reading the "reply#275 from Johnny B Good" we know that this is not a specific UTG962 problem.
I checked the data sheets for the SDG1032X and the SDG2042X. The cheaper one is not showing a measured spectrum
... the better one is showing a clean spectrum!

Repeated a few tests with a linear power supply (5V, 1008mA @ 100% brightness,  5V, 890mA @ 30% brightness)
- cold start frequency drift           (cold_start_linear_ps)
- spectrum for 10MHz sine (5-15MHz). This time I used the ADALM2000 device with scopy SW.
  b.t.w. This is a very exciting device:  2 channel 12bit ADC/DAC @ 100MHz, FFT up to 256k, averaging, ...
   - with the original power adapter   (spec_orig_pa_3500mVpp_50R)
   - with a linear power supply        (spec_linear_ps_3500mVpp_50R)

I could not see any relevant differences!


Update regarding "start frequency" for "sweep mode":

Tried to document this for UNI-T (they are asking for a video). Big surprise: bug was gone ??!!
During my first investigation I tried everything to start at > 0Hz ... nothing helped (power off/on, changing mode, changing frequencies, ...).
I missed documenting this with a video ...

Then I tried the same game with "log" instead of "line" ... BINGO! A log sweep from 5 to 6MHz should be close to a linear sweep.
Looks like the SW is interpreting 5MHz as a frequency close to 0Hz!  -> I took a video for UNI-T

[Labrat101]

I am on 250 VAC  50hz .  well it reads 249vac to be exact .

There was some guy that did a full break  down of 4 models UTG962 the Rigol ,Siglent , and I forgot the other    .
I will try and find the link he did a really good comparison very long from what I recall 20 pages on a PDF.
and compared the UTG against some of the way more expensive and from I recall the UTG came very close
to second place . I will search for the document I am sure I downloaded it . it was last year so I have thousands
of PDFs to search .

[ledtester]

There was some guy that did a full break  down of 4 models UTG962 the Rigol ,Siglent , and I forgot the other    .
I will try and find the link he did a really good comparison very long from what I recall 20 pages on a PDF.
and compared the UTG against some of the way more expensive and from I recall the UTG came very close
to second place . I will search for the document I am sure I downloaded it . it was last year so I have thousands
of PDFs to search .

Perhaps it was these blog posts on element14:

https://www.element14.com/community/groups/roadtest/blog/2020/05/17/tektronix-afg31052-verification-tests

https://www.element14.com/community/groups/roadtest/blog/2020/05/17/tektronix-afg31052-verification-tests-part-2

[Labrat101]

There was some guy that did a full break  down of 4 models UTG962 the Rigol ,Siglent , and I forgot the other    .
I will try and find the link he did a really good comparison very long from what I recall 20 pages on a PDF.
and compared the UTG against some of the way more expensive and from I recall the UTG came very close
to second place . I will search for the document I am sure I downloaded it . it was last year so I have thousands
of PDFs to search .

Perhaps it was these blog posts on element14:

https://www.element14.com/community/groups/roadtest/blog/2020/05/17/tektronix-afg31052-verification-tests

https://www.element14.com/community/groups/roadtest/blog/2020/05/17/tektronix-afg31052-verification-tests-part-2

Thanks, Yes this looks like the review . saved me the search 
 This guy did some really good reviews and well laid out covering most of the spectrums .
 This was one of the reasons that made me go for the UTG962 .  $120 or  $2k Plus   
 Even the big boys equipment has Bugs . with updates to firmware . Though the UTG962 I don't think it will get this privilege.
But its big brother does .
 If any one is looking for a Bug free life . Sorry it won't happen . It inheritance in the human behaviour   

   Live long & happy 

[ptluis]

I received my UTG932E yesterday. I am impressed by the build quality for the price ! 

The CPU is a Gigadevice GD32F207ZCT6 (crazy what you can do with isopropanol and a good view angle).

The firmware is not protected... I could not resist ...

After dumping the code I was able to extract the SCPI commands that are recognized by the device. That could come handy when trying to remote control the device.
Some of them still need to be identified.

The commands are:

Code: [Select]

*IDN
*RST
CHANnel<n>:AMPLitude:UNIT
CHANnel<n>:ARB:INDex
CHANnel<n>:ARB:SOURce
CHANnel<n>:BASE:AMPLitude
CHANnel<n>:BASE:DUTY
CHANnel<n>:BASE:FREQuency
CHANnel<n>:BASE:HIGH
CHANnel<n>:BASE:LOW
CHANnel<n>:BASE:OFFSet
CHANnel<n>:BASE:PERiod
CHANnel<n>:BASE:PHASe
CHANnel<n>:BASE:WAVe
CHANnel<n>:FM:FREQuency:DEV
CHANnel<n>:FSK:HOPPing:FREQuency
CHANnel<n>:INVersion
CHANnel<n>:LIMit:ENABle
CHANnel<n>:LIMit:LOWer
CHANnel<n>:LIMit:UPPer
CHANnel<n>:LOAD
CHANnel<n>:MODe
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:ARB:INDex
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:ARB:SOURce
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:DEPTh
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:FREQuency
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:SOURce
CHANnel<n>:MODulate:WAVe
CHANnel<n>:OUTPut
CHANnel<n>:OUTPut:SYNC
CHANnel<n>:PM:PHASe:DEV
CHANnel<n>:PULSe:FALL
CHANnel<n>:PULSe:RISe
CHANnel<n>:SWEep:FREQuency:STARt
CHANnel<n>:SWEep:FREQuency:STOP
CHANnel<n>:SWEep:TIMe
CRC
CVER
DISPlay
DISPlay:Data
IDN
KEY:<k>
KEY:<k>:LED
RP<n>:ADDR<a>
SCPI
SYNC<n>:CMD<a>
SYSTem:BEEP
SYSTem:BRIGhtness
SYSTem:CONFigure
SYSTem:CYMometer
SYSTem:CYMometer:DUTY
SYSTem:CYMometer:FREQuency
SYSTem:CYMometer:PERiod
SYSTem:ERR
SYSTem:INFo
SYSTem:LANGuage
SYSTem:LOCK
SYSTem:NUMBer:FORMat
SYSTem:PHASe:MODe
SYSTem:SLEEP:TIMe
UPDate
WARB<n>:CARRier
WARB<n>:MODulate
WFILE
WP<n>:ADDR<a>

 You will find more details in the pdf attached to this post.

I also monitored the traffic between the CPU and the 24LC64 eeprom and dumped the eeprom. Interesting as my UTG932E turned now to be a UTG962E.

The 496 first bytes of the eeprom are used to store the current configuration. The model definition is store at the end of the eeprom (see print screen). I did not find the serial number in it.
As the model type (30 or 60Mhz) is stored in the eeprom and the eeprom is only connected to the CPU, there might be a possibility that a SCPI command could change the model. I modified it the hard way with my TL866 programmer but this would of course be more convenient via SCPI.

Enjoy!

Edit: Reduced pictures size

Thank you! Also works 100% with UTG932 not E model, programmed with cheap Ch341A
Note: with this programmer you need to select 24C64. If you select 24LC64 or 24CL64, you'll get a "success writing message" but the contents are corrupted!!! Beware!

Freemen67, can you advise me of what version of TL866 should I get? I'm planning on buying one. Thank you.

Edit: I forgot to mention that my ch341A programmer is the black edition with the 3.3v mod done. Do not connect your 24LC64 without the 3.3v mod otherwise the chip will be supplied with 5v, may or may not burn.

[g2]

Hello, I have a few questions, I hope to get an answer.

When you fine tune the frequency output by turning the knob on the UTG662, do the output waveform glitches ? 
Occurs there glitches at all ?
Thanks in advance.

I have attached a PDF document ProgrammingGuide_UTG900E.

[ptluis]

Hello, I have a few questions, I hope to get an answer.

When you fine tune the frequency output by turning the knob on the UTG662, do the output waveform glitches ? 
Occurs there glitches at all ?
Thanks in advance.

I have attached a PDF document ProgrammingGuide_UTG900E.

Not on mine, always smooth transition, but mine is a UTG932 converted to UTG962, I think this doesn't matter because they are the same hardware.

[g2]

To ptluis
Thanks for reply.
How did you get the UTG932 converted to UTG962 ? Is it easy.

[ptluis]

To ptluis
Thanks for reply.
How did you get the UTG932 converted to UTG962 ? Is it easy.

I follow the fremen67 tips here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-utg932utg962-200msas-function-arbitrary-waveform-generator-220394/msg3561559/#msg3561559

If you use an CH341A programmer read the end of my post here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-utg932utg962-200msas-function-arbitrary-waveform-generator-220394/msg3753497/#msg3753497

For me it was easy, you loose your warranty if you do this (void the warranty seal)

[electr_peter]

Also Amazon had a 10Ah USB battery pack on sale, so I decided to have a go at making my UTG portable.
Works great - I'll have to do some noise measurements to see if the cheap regulator inside the battery pack is making any noise.

Can you provide a link for that battery pack? Looks really cool solution!
Also, where did you get the USB to barrel cable from?

Battery pack: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QXV6N1B/
Right-angle cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075112RM6/
Anker typically makes good stuff so I'm fairly confident it's a quality pack. The cable I just found by searching "right angle usb to 5.5 2.1"

Almost any regular USB power bank will do. Nice compact cable is more difficult to find - there some options on eBay and AliExpress:
USB to Barrel Cable USB to 5.5mm/2.1mm Angled 5V DC Power Cable (Right Angled)
Angled USB DC Plug Barrel Power Jack Cable 5.5/2.1mm 5.5x2.1mm Right Left USB 2.0 5V Adapter Converter Charging Cable 1ft/30cm

[Rich S]

I also just bought UTG962.
Did a quick check only at this time -- so far, I'm very satisfied. 

For the record, As far as I can see, it seems all the settings are retained (are saved) if the device is powered off, and on. 
(removing the power cord did not change this).

SW version: 1.09
HW version: 1.01
FPGA version: 1.07

[ptluis]

Found a bug!

My version is:   SW 1.09, HW 1.01, FPGA 1.07
Problem is the "start frequency" for the sweep mode.
In both modes ("line" and "log") the entered value for "start frequency" is always ignored. HW starts at 0Hz!

Did you still have this bug? I tried on my unit UTG932 modified to 60MHz and didn't notice any issue.
My version is:   SW 1.08, HW 1.01, FPGA 1.07

[Rooster Cogburn]

Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but can this generator be damaged by driving a low impedance load or by shorting its output? The manual talks about overvoltage protection, but not overcurrent. If it has a current limiter to protect it, what is the limit? Like, can it be used to blink an LED

Also, are there any firmware updates for this device yet? Can't seem to find anything on UNI-T's site, so I assume the answer is no.

Thanks!

[TurboTom]

All "mainstream" AWGs have a voltage output (nowadays often a current-feedback opamp) followed by a 50 ohms series resitor, providing both current limitation and the conventional 50 ohms output impedance. If the AWG provides a high-Z output voltage range of +-10V (20Vpp), the maximum short-circuit durrent to ground will be limited to 200mA. If the AWG will survive a short to an external power rail is another question, if the over voltage protection is fast enough, it should actually keep the instrument from being damaged, but as always, YMMV 

[Rooster Cogburn]

That's very helpful, thanks!

[Rich S]

re damage from shorted output
It was common practice to put a "L" or "T" pad on the inputs & outputs of expensive equipment.
Of course, then your readings have to be adjusted to take into account the attenuation.
But if you use, say, a 10dB pad, the math is easy.
 

[absolute]

I finally had enough of the terrible BNC connectors in this thing and replaced them. I used 3 times BKL Electronic part nr.:0401111. These aren't as low profile as the ones the unit comes shipped with, but they do fit under the shield and only the case needs a little filing on the flat part of the openings where the connectors protrude.

Before, if I only slightly wiggled an attached cable the signal would glitch and rocking the cable side to side would give different noise levels. The connection is stable now, with less noise as well. Big improvement

[Fungus]

I am not impressed. The generator is utterly useless.
My 2 FY6900's are light years cleaner that this piece of junk.
The trash that this thing produces is off the scale.
I use the FY6900 to align vintage radios and it is fairly clean.
This thing when just the ground is attached to chassis ground causes the DUT radio to receive trash. Hooking the thing up to the antenna or other points obliterated the fundamental generated frequency. Now...how do I get a refund?

Check your power supply.

[Dandymon]

The firmware is not protected... I could not resist ...
......
...
"I also monitored the traffic between the CPU and the 24LC64 eeprom and dumped the eeprom. Interesting as my UTG932E turned now to be a UTG962E. "
The 496 first bytes of the eeprom are used to store the current configuration. The model definition is store at the end of the eeprom (see print screen). I did not find the serial number in it.

So, I actually buggered up the first few bytes in my EEPROM but fortunately like fremen67  said, they are settings for the device - I put the module into Chinese amongst other things . I did however, manage to avoid buying an EEPROM programmer since this 24LC64 is read/written using i2c.

I got my trusty arduino uno out and started playing!
First, I soldered two wires onto the IC on pins 5&6 (SDA and SCL respectively) and then used wire jumpers onto the uno (5V not 3.3v). The UTG has pullup resistors already in it. Then I proceeded to corrupt my settings!
I didn't think, I coded like I always have done before using the standard Wire library, and only addressing ONE byte. I realised my mistake and made a working program to access the full EEPROM. A0 was tied high on the PCB, so the address is 0x51.
Then I bit the bullet and wrote the EEPROM...... and then I smiled!

Thanks to fremen67  for doing the initial discovery. I too could see the processor clear as day when I rotated it in the light (no acetone needed), but the ICs under the signal generator PCB in the back of the unit (under the shielding), were well and truly lasered off. I can't comment what's in here other than a few relays and opamps.

Code: [Select]

#include <Wire.h>

#define ADDR_Ax 0b001 //A2, A1, A0
#define ADDR (0b1010 << 3) + ADDR_Ax

void setup() {
  Serial.begin(115200);
  Wire.begin();
}
#define line_length 16
#define rows 32
void loop() {
      //Serial.print((char)readEEPROM(0x1F0B));
      //writeEEPROM(0x1F0B, 0x36);  //make 60MHz
      //writeEEPROM(0x1F0B, 0x33);  //make 30MHz
      //Serial.print((char)readEEPROM(0x1F0B));
      dump(0x1EA0);
  while(1);
}
void dump(int base_addr){
    for (long i=0;i<(rows*line_length);i+=line_length){
    Serial.print(i+base_addr, HEX);
    Serial.print(":\t");
    for (long j=0;j<line_length;j++){
      Serial.print(readEEPROM(j+base_addr+i),HEX);
      Serial.print(" ");
      }
    Serial.print("\t");
    for (long j=0;j<line_length;j++){
      Serial.print((char)readEEPROM(j+base_addr+i));
      Serial.print(" ");
      }
    Serial.println();
  }
}
void writeEEPROM( int eeaddress, uint8_t data )
{
  Wire.beginTransmission(ADDR);
  Wire.write((eeaddress >> 8));   // MSB
  Wire.write((eeaddress & 0xFF)); // LSB
  Wire.write(data);
  Wire.endTransmission();

  delay(5);
}

byte readEEPROM( unsigned int eeaddress )
{
  byte rdata = 0xFF;

  Wire.beginTransmission(ADDR);
  Wire.write((eeaddress >> 8));   // MSB
  Wire.write((eeaddress & 0xFF)); // LSB
  Wire.endTransmission();

  Wire.requestFrom(ADDR, 1);

  if (Wire.available())
  {
    rdata = Wire.read();
  }

  return rdata;
}

Dan

[electr_peter]

EEPROM mod was discovered and showed to work thanks to forum members. Next step is to find SCPI commands which would do that as well.

UTG900E program manual has a comment

Notes：The returned model number should be consistent with the nameplate information.

This hints at possible SCPI command to change UTG932/UTG962 setting. Checks on documented and semi-documented commands so far were not successful.

[Dandymon]

I think I might have broke my utg932 by poking around a bit too much in the eeprom

Would you mind attaching your bin file for me to re flash mine please?
I can’t seem to activate the FM modulator 

[ptluis]

I think I might have broke my utg932 by poking around a bit too much in the eeprom

Would you mind attaching your bin file for me to re flash mine please?
I can’t seem to activate the FM modulator 

My friend i only saved the following format (address, Hex, ascii) because my programming software recognizes this type of data.
It is the full content of the UTG932
See if you can rebuilt yours from the hex values.

At the end of the code (UTG900;**;60;1)  "60" means 60MHz version, "30" means 30MHz version

!!!! I don't know why the forum software insists in converting the ascii part of the "www.uni-" into an url link.  !!!!
Although the hex values are correct

Address 00007980 should be read like:
00007980 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 77 77 77 2E 75 6E 69 2D ....................www.uni-


I remember in having some problems flashing the eeprom, if I just changed the 30 to 60 and reflash the eeprom it got corrupted, but if I erase it first and then do a full write, it works 100%

Code: [Select]

00000000 55 54 47 39 4A 75 6C 20 32 32 20 32 30 32 30 20 31 34 3A 35 35 3A 30 38 00 00 00 00 UTG9Jul 22 2020 14:55:08....
00000028 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 88 C3 40 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 ...................@........
00000056 00 00 00 00 38 9C 7C 41 DB 74 28 67 4C E5 61 3E 00 00 00 00 65 CD 9D 41 2B 69 A4 29 ....8.|A.t(gL.a>....e..A+i.)
00000084 2B 1B 50 3E 2B 69 A4 29 2B 1B 50 3E 72 1C C7 71 1C C7 11 40 72 1C C7 71 1C C7 11 C0 +.P>+i.)+.P>r..q...@r..q....
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00006104 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006132 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006160 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006188 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006216 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006244 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006272 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006300 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006328 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006356 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006384 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006412 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006440 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006468 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006496 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006524 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006552 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006580 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006608 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006636 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006664 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006692 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006720 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006748 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006776 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006804 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006832 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006860 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006888 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006916 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006944 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00006972 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007000 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007028 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007056 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007084 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007112 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007140 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007168 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007196 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007224 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007252 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007280 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007308 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007336 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007364 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007392 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007420 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007448 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007476 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007504 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007532 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007560 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007588 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007616 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007644 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007672 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007700 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007728 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007756 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007784 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007812 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007840 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007868 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007896 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00007924 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 55 54 47 39 30 30 3B 2A 2A 3B 36 30 3B 31 2E 30 ............UTG900;**;60;1.0
00007952 31 3B 31 2E 30 30 3B 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1;1.00;.....................
00007980 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 77 77 77 2E 75 6E 69 2D ....................[url=http://www.uni-]www.uni-[/url]
00008008 74 72 65 6E 64 2E 63 6F 6D 0A 0A 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 trend.com...................
00008036 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ............................
00008064 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00008092 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00008120 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00008148 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ............................
00008176 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF                                     ................

[Dandymon]

ptluis, my hero. You’re a lovely man, but believe it or not it didn’t fix it because I’m a bit of a silly man myself sometimes; and it appears my waveform generator was never broke.
The problem was that I had set a carrier to 60MHz and tried to use FM, whereby the frequency would go over 60MHz if the frequency was to modulate at this limit. This was the reason I couldn’t set any deviation, there is a HARD stop on 60MHz, and if I set it at 59MHz, I can use FM. Makes sense when you think about it.

Sorry to have wasted your time, however your contribution to this message board will undoubtedly help others in the future.
Thanks

[wasedadoc]

Is the complete firmware really only 8192 bytes of which less than about 550 are not 0xFF ?

[ledtester]

Is the complete firmware really only 8192 bytes of which less than about 550 are not 0xFF ?

I think it's just used to store configuration and user preferences.

[ptluis]

Is the complete firmware really only 8192 bytes of which less than about 550 are not 0xFF ?

This is not the firmware, only de contents of the eprom used to store the user settings and the configuration of the device model. I tried to modify some values around the data trying to expose some kind of hidden functions, but since I don't have a spare eprom around I had to stop trying because I'm unable to test the changes without first erase and do a full write. This takes a lot of time and reduces eprom life.

[ptluis]

ptluis, my hero. You’re a lovely man, but believe it or not it didn’t fix it because I’m a bit of a silly man myself sometimes; and it appears my waveform generator was never broke.
The problem was that I had set a carrier to 60MHz and tried to use FM, whereby the frequency would go over 60MHz if the frequency was to modulate at this limit. This was the reason I couldn’t set any deviation, there is a HARD stop on 60MHz, and if I set it at 59MHz, I can use FM. Makes sense when you think about it.

Sorry to have wasted your time, however your contribution to this message board will undoubtedly help others in the future.
Thanks

Good to know everything is fine, anyway I leave the code above for those who have corrupted eprom and to be able to revive the device.

[Yuriy V.]

This generator start fails from time to time. It looks like this:

When the generator is running for a long time, some kind of relay clicks in it and the output signal disappears. The exit indicator does not turn off. After a short time, random flickering of the button backlight starts. The screen backlight does not flicker. After switching off and on, the generator works again, until the next failure.

Does anyone have similar problems?

[Labrat101]

Make sure you are not exceeding the max output power . Ie if you have a 50 ohm dummy load and running the output higher than 10v . . Just a thought.  It does have overload protection.

[Yuriy V.]

It does have overload protection.

Defenitely not. It can happen even when monitoring the output with an oscilloscope, without any load.
1 KHz, 400 mVp/p, 1 MOhm etc.

And note:

random flickering of the button backlight starts

[valcher]

Hi all!
I don’t know if I discovered America, maybe it was already somewhere, but if you hold down the “Utility” button on the generator turned off and turn on the power, then an invitation appears on the screen - “Place Upgrade!”. As I understand it, there may be updates for the device.
I have SW - 1.09, what versions do you have?

[Yuriy V.]

I have SW - 1.09, what versions do you have?

1.07

[valcher]

Now it remains to find out how to unload the firmware without opening the generator.

[Labrat101]

Hi all!
I don’t know if I discovered America, maybe it was already somewhere, but if you hold down the “Utility” button on the generator turned off and turn on the power, then an invitation appears on the screen - “Place Upgrade!”. As I understand it, there may be updates for the device.
I have SW - 1.09, what versions do you have?

That is mentioned in the full documentation . but there has not been any updates    .

[Labrat101]

It does have overload protection.

  O yes it does and it works very well ..

[Yuriy V.]

O yes it does and it works very well ..

In my opinion, it looks more like some kind of problem with the built-in DC-DC power converter (overheating & microcracks). This is indirectly indicated by the flickering (not blinking) of the LED backlighting of the buttons. And the relay also can release due to a voltage drop.

[Felipe Lacerda]

At the end of the code (UTG900;**;60;1)  "60" means 60MHz version, "30" means 30MHz version

Just this change needed to unlock the 60mhz in model 932e?

Is it possible to backup the file with a CH340(3.3v)?

[JOSM]

At the end of the code (UTG900;**;60;1)  "60" means 60MHz version, "30" means 30MHz version

Just this change needed to unlock the 60mhz in model 932e?

Yes, that will do it.

[Mario87]

Hi all,

Thinking of picking up one of these, but does anyone know, when purchasing from BangGood, does it come with a UK power adapter? From what I have seen it comes with one of those universal adapters where you select the plug type you want in click it in place, but not seen any images or videos that show the UK plug adapter??

[ledtester]

Hi all,

Thinking of picking up one of these, but does anyone know, when purchasing from BangGood, does it come with a UK power adapter? From what I have seen it comes with one of those universal adapters where you select the plug type you want in click it in place, but not seen any images or videos that show the UK plug adapter??

In the Q&A section for the product I found this:



but you might want to confirm with Banggood just to be sure.

[123rolle]

I guess for the current prices JUNTEK PSG9080 184€ (shipped) is a lot better deal than UNI-T UTG932 (even can be hacked) for 145€ shipped?

[hughtmccullough]

I am thinking of buying one of these but there is one requirement I have that I am not sure about.

Reading through this thread and information on other sites it seems that it is perfectly possible to upload arbitrary waveforms to the generator.  I understand that the waveforms aren't persistent and I'm happy to upload each time I use it.  I use Linux on my PC and have read that there is a method for uploading using Python based software and that it is possible to upload CSV files.  However, I haven't spotted any tools for creating the waveforms that are all that good.  What I would like to be able to do is create a list of 4096 data points in a spreadsheet, convert those to a CSV file with any appropriate header information and upload the resulting CSV file to the generator.

Is it possible to do this?
If so, what header information/formatting is required in the CSV file?
Is a single list of numbers enough or do the points have to be input as pairs?
If so, what is needed for the time coordinate as the frequency can obviously be varied in use?
Is there a Linux tool that can create files based on my spreadsheet results in a format other than CSV that would be a better way of doing this?

[ledtester]

The exact format of the .csv file might depend on the program you use.

This python program:

https://github.com/jarjuk/UTG900

looks like it could support csv as well as other formats. Here is the documentation for the arb upload command:

https://github.com/jarjuk/UTG900#arb---upload-wave-file-and-use-it-to-generate-wave

and if you look in the data directory:

https://github.com/jarjuk/UTG900/tree/main/data

you'll see an example .bsv file as well as a .csv file.

I would just ask the developer (by email or open a github issue) for specifics on how to generate waveform files for use with the program.

[hughtmccullough]

Thanks.  That was exactly what I wanted.  It looks as if it will do my job.  Now I need to get one.

[Git]

If you are looking for a UT962E in the UK, there are none at the moment unless you want to spend well over the odds on Ebay. After a search, an order then cancellation with Banggood, I eventually got one from Aliexpress. There's a genuine UNI-T store on there and several other sellers. UNI-T are using a fairly slow transport with no other choice, but one seller redistributes from France and Spain, with a delivery estimate of delivery of 16 days. Banggood offered fast expedited carriage for free. I ordered and the order status said Standard carriage which is over a month. Not the first time this has happened to me there, so I cancelled and went to Ali. I don't know if it is still the case, but the suffix E on the model number is for English, no suffix is for the Chinese language model. A post in this thread suggested the firmware is now multilingual. Good luck. Don't forget the VAT

[XenonEng]

I registered just to say thanks to all who discovered/implemented the hack. I now have a lovely 60Mhz func gen to replace (supplement) my ancient LFM3!

Regarding the power consumption of the unit, I noticed the current draw is around 0.8A (rising to 1A with outputs on into 50 ohms) BUT if I connect the outputs to earth referenced BNC of my oscilloscope then the current drops to 0.48A (0.56 with both outputs into 50 ohms.)

Can someone explain that one for me?

Cheers all.

[Yuriy V.]

In my opinion, it looks more like some kind of problem with the built-in DC-DC power converter (overheating & microcracks).

Solved as I hope:

1. Resoldered IC DC-DC & his choke
2. Installed optional heatsink
3. Removed metal shilding grid (bekause it useless on my opinion, only going unit to overheating)
4. Made some holes on bottom side of case back

Consumption current with both channels 'ON' has down to ~~ 965 mA.

[electr_peter]

BNC connectors were suspect on UTG932 unit. Inner plastic shafts with holes had uneven lengths (two longer, one shorter). Expected higher quality, at least to have similar dimensions. Changed to proper BNCs as suggested by mnementh

To increase BW to 60 MHz, EEPROM does not have to resoldered, only 2 wires are needed for SCL/SDA as suggested by Dandymon

[Yuriy V.]

Solved as I hope:

A few days later the problem reappeared. Apparently, somewhere there are microcracks that have arisen due to overheating of the device or as a result of factory assembly defects. But there are some clarifications. Before failure, the current consumption begins to increase.

I can say one thing: I am very upset by this situation. Although this device is very good in its functionality, it has shown itself to be extremely unreliable in operational terms. I am thinking about what to do next: buy 932(e) again or buy something else. A critical requirement is the availability of synchronization of the oscilloscope when sweeping. But I have not found other generators with such synchronization in this price range.

[bffargo]

Then I bit the bullet and wrote the EEPROM...... and then I smiled!

Thanks to fremen67  for doing the initial discovery.

Thanks. I just did the same hack using an UNO; though I used a chip clip to avoid soldering anything. I dumped out all non-FF pages of data to the debugger and captured that just in case. I will compare it against the previously posted ones and see if there are any differences out of curiosity.

For some reason even though I only changed the one byte, it re-booted into Chinese. Finally found the menu option to flip it back.

For those that want a bit better formatted output from the dump() API, here is a quick hack to clean it up a bit:

Code: [Select]

void dump(int base_addr){
    for (long i=0;i<(rows*line_length);i+=line_length){
    if (i+base_addr<16)
      Serial.print("0");
    if (i+base_addr<256)
      Serial.print("0");
    if (i+base_addr<4096)
      Serial.print("0");
    Serial.print(i+base_addr, HEX);
    Serial.print(":\t");
    for (long j=0;j<line_length;j++){
      if (readEEPROM(j+base_addr+i)<16)
        Serial.print("0");
      Serial.print(readEEPROM(j+base_addr+i),HEX);
      Serial.print(" ");
      }
    Serial.print("\t");
    for (long j=0;j<line_length;j++){
      Serial.print((char)readEEPROM(j+base_addr+i));
      Serial.print("_");
      }
    Serial.println();
  }
}

It reports things without floating spacing now. Some examples (forum is eating some of the text now too)

Code: [Select]

0000: 55 54 47 39 4D 61 72 20 31 39 20 32 30 32 31 20 U_T_G_9_M_a_r_ _1_9_ _2_0_2_1_ _
0010: 31 37 3A 31 30 3A 30 31 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1_7_:_1_0_:_0_1_
...
0100: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 88 C3 40
...
1F00: 55 54 47 39 30 30 45 3B 2A 2A 3B 36 30 3B 31 2E U_T_G_9_0_0_E_;_*_*_;_6_0_;_1_._
1F10: 30 31 3B 31 2E 30 30 3B 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0_1_;_1_._0_0_;_
...
1F40: 77 77 77 2E 75 6E 69 2D 74 72 65 6E 64 2E 63 6F w_w_w_._u_n_i_-_t_r_e_n_d_._c_o_
1F50: 6D 0A 0A 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 m_


[Mechatrommer]

just did a battery pack mod. not really stellar appearance and voltage ripple (1Vpp) well... better late than never, better something than nothing... since my old powerbank cant supply ~2A (it tripped), so i have to strip away the original board and old batteries, and total redo the circuit using available modules, i only reuse the enclosure. cheers.

[balnazzar]

Guys, I bought an UTG932 and I'm more or less happy with it, but I'd need to control (& program) it from a PC, so I'm trying to install the software.

Unsuccessfully, until now. Basically, the installer install a "Device Manager", which on startup probes for the device (that is connected to the computer with the bundled USB-B cable).
However, it hangs up and doesn't seem to be able to find it:

Any opinion? Thanks!

[Mechatrommer]

anyone knows where the internal arbitrary wave data is stored? i'm thinking if i can overwrite the internal wave with more usefull arbitrary signal.

[Mechatrommer]

3D Printed Handle for UNI-T UTG FG/AWG
if someone with 3d printer interested in printing the handle for it, but dont know how to make a model, attached is the zipped stl file.. it needs 3mm diameter (steel preferably) rod where you can slip the handle strip around. the rest, use imagination.

[dr_when]

I just bought a UTG962E from Amazon and returned it a day later after not being able to resolve the same problem. So sick of hardware with crappy software with drivers of a suspicious origin that just plain don't work. I tried to get it to work on Windows 11 with no luck. The manufacturer offers no useful support other than saying trying it on older Windows versions. I don't think so. I refuse to support crap like this. Too bad because the hardware looked good but I needed to create and load my own waveforms. Turns out my Analog Discovery 2 does that all just beautifully.

[electr_peter]

Noticed few issues with UTG962E. Setup - channel 1 terminated in 50 ohm, SYNC unterminated, triggering on SYNC.

Max SYNC output frequency is only 2MHz (could not reach higher with my setup). If channel frequency is >2MHz or modulated, then SYNC frequency drops drastically.

Channel 1 phase of sine wave is not stable w.r.t. SYNC output depending on frequency. Phase is stable only for "nice" frequencies 2MHz, 5MHz, 8MHz, 16MHz, 20Mhz, 25Mhz, 32Mhz, 40MHz, 50Mhz (plus some others at 2/5MHz multiples). Even 1Hz deviation from these frequencies results in either smeared phase or several quantized phases. For example, 24/30/48/60MHz shows three different phases, 55 MHz show 11 phases. Small frequency change from offset results in smeared view. This effect is for all frequency range.

FM modulation results in a drift w.r.t. SYNC output depending on FM frequency and deviation settings.

[nctnico]

I just bought a UTG962E from Amazon and returned it a day later after not being able to resolve the same problem. So sick of hardware with crappy software with drivers of a suspicious origin that just plain don't work. I tried to get it to work on Windows 11 with no luck. The manufacturer offers no useful support other than saying trying it on older Windows versions. I don't think so. I refuse to support crap like this. Too bad because the hardware looked good but I needed to create and load my own waveforms. Turns out my Analog Discovery 2 does that all just beautifully.

Even for high-end waveform generators you'll find the waveform editing software is mediocre at best. In the end you are supposed to use commercial (third party) software or create waveforms from your own programs / scripts. Waveform editing software is just a checkbox item.

[Markus2801A]

Has anybody figured out how its possible that arbitrary waveforms transferred via USB to the device stay saved even when powering off the device?

It is possible to create a waveform and upload it to the UTG962. But after powering off the device, its gone as already other user have mentioned this a few posts before:

Another surprise, the data uploaded is not persistent. No waveforms survives over power off.
...

So we need a solution to make those transferred waveforms to stay permanent within the memory of the device!

[ataradov]

There are no non-volatile memories in the device that are big enough to store waweforms. There is no solution to that.

[Mechatrommer]

thats why i asked? how the internal arbitrary waveforms are saved (possibly overwriting those?), is it embedded in firmware? or came from factory and stored "only they know" where?

[ataradov]

I would assume they are part of the main firmware. The MCU looks big enough to store that. Which, I guess can be reused, but there are no firmware files and I don't think we ever determined the MCU type. I tried to match a few common MCUs that have this package, but nothing matched. But I have not tried too hard.

Although there is a 1MByte FPGA configuration flash. This might actually have some part dedicated to the storage.

The interface between the MCU and FPGA board is slow, so eventually waveforms have to end up in the FPGA for playback. But there is also 32 MByte of SDRAM, and I see no reason for that other than storage of the user data.

[dophuc]

Hello everyone, has anyone tried to hack the UTG962 (or UTG932) to use the Bode plot function with the Siglent SDS1104X-E oscilloscope? I like the compactness of this UTG962, and it would be great to be able to use it with the 1104X-E

[Markus2801A]

There are no non-volatile memories in the device that are big enough to store waweforms. There is no solution to that.

  Oh no! Why isn't Uni-T able to provide a fixed Firmware and Software which is able to safe the Data in non volatile section of the device?

PS.: I throw in an other F-Gen from OWON newly released last year: DGE2000 Series Arbitrary Waveform Generator
http://www.owon.com.hk/products_dge2000_series_arbitrary_waveform_generator

[ataradov]

It is a very simple and cheap device, so some functionality is limited.

And it looks like those custom waveforms are very short, so they can easily be stored in the MCU internal flash. So, they potentially could release a new firmware that does this.

There is no "hack" that would enable this though, so I would work under the assumption that it will not happen and if saving the waveforms is critical, then consider other devices.

At the same time, what are the actual use cases for custom waveforms on a device this limited?

Also, I'm wrong on CPU being unknown. It was identified earlier in this thread as  Gigadevice GD32F207ZCT6 due to poor laser etching. And the firmware is apparently not protected. This still does not help a lot, since significant reverse engineering would be required. And it does not look like there is a lot of interest, as otherwise the device is fine.

[Markus2801A]

...
At the same time, what are the actual use cases for custom waveforms on a device this limited?

Tried to upload a "stairStep up", it has only save StairsUP and Down (Like Triangle) for a primitive curve tracer.
Also the hight of the steps adjustable would be nice :-)
In the attached fotos: I have used an FY6800DDS, which has saved a StairUp Waveform, to achieve the blue traced curves.
The other attached waveforms are from the Uni-T just for information.

[ataradov]

Actually, given that firmware is not locked, it it may be possible to at least look if standard waveforms are stored there. If so, it should be possible to permanently replace the internal ones with a new firmware.

There is no dump attached to the post that said it was unlocked though, so someone has to read it out.

[Mechatrommer]

...
At the same time, what are the actual use cases for custom waveforms on a device this limited?

Tried to upload a "stairStep up", it has only save StairsUP and Down (Like Triangle) for a primitive curve tracer.
Also the hight of the steps adjustable would be nice :-)
In the attached fotos: I have used an FY6800DDS, which has saved a StairUp Waveform, to achieve the blue traced curves.
The other attached waveforms are from the Uni-T just for information.

yes this is my thought when curve tracer thread using FG proposed by mawyatt, but it can still be worked with UTG900 using StairUD and Tri Up, just a redundant trace on stair Down part of signal and possibly introduces noises in the traces. i havent tried though. other applications using arbitrary function i think we can find workaround/hack from existing built in (internal) AWF in this little/cheap device. but it would be better if... possibility to permanent save in internal AW data using by just adding an addition SDK/API call in FW/PC SW without the need for HW change...

[Markus2801A]

... but it can still be worked with UTG900 using StairUD and Tri Up, just a redundant trace on stair Down part of signal and possibly introduces noises in the traces...

Exactly it worked with only one AWG (UTG962) see image below. The schematic has to be changed, it's flipped, but it works!

Hopefully someone who is more well educated than me, can make a new firmware ;-)

[kavehm]

Hello,
How many waveforms can be designed with the PC software and uploaded to the device?
Is there any limitation?

[wasedadoc]

Hello,
How many waveforms can be designed with the PC software and uploaded to the device?
Is there any limitation?

AIUI you can design as many as you like but the generator takes only one and puts it in RAM.  Power off and it is gone until you upload it or a different one again.

[kavehm]

Is it possible to save the waveforms designed in the device itself for later use?

[Yuriy V.]

Hi, all! I have a question about the sync output when using the UT932E (UT900E/UT900 family) in sweep mode.
What is the maximum duration (minimal frequency) of the sweep period at which the generator is still producing a sync signal?

[wasedadoc]

Is it possible to save the waveforms designed in the device itself for later use?

No.

[kavehm]

Is it possible to have the same waveform from the two outputs of ch1 and ch2?
Ch1 and Ch2 have the same output waveform at the same time?

[wasedadoc]

Is it possible to have the same waveform from the two outputs of ch1 and ch2?
Ch1 and Ch2 have the same output waveform at the same time?

Yes.

[Yuriy V.]

Cooler for UTG900/UTG900E: 3x2510 5V with 3.5V pover (used two 4007).

upd: STL (zip) attached

[MTamer]

Hello all,

I have a problem setting up Virtual Control Panel of the UTG900 Series on my Windows 10. After the setup completes, and running the program I cant see the screen of the wave and the parameter.
Can you please help me with this?

[Fungus]

Is there any way to hack the 932 to a 962?

[tatel]

Link on the first post of this thread

[Fungus]

Has anybody accurately measured the rise time of the sync pulse from one of these?

[electr_peter]

Has anybody accurately measured the rise time of the sync pulse from one of these?

Sync pulse rise time is 1.09ns into 50Ohm. Square wave on CH1/CH2 is slower at 54.7ns.
However, sync pulse max freq is only 2MHz. With higher CH1 output frequency sync drops in frequency and skips some pulses.

[Fungus]

Sync pulse rise time is 1.09ns into 50Ohm. Square wave on CH1/CH2 is slower at 54.7ns.
However, sync pulse max freq is only 2MHz. With higher CH1 output frequency sync drops in frequency and skips some pulses.

Thanks!

I've been using my UTG to test oscilloscope bandwidth and I was wondering how high it goes. I'm not worried about max frequency.

1.09ns is good for about 400Mhz. 

[Mechatrommer]

1.09ns is good for about 400Mhz. 

963ps... 467MHz (0.45 / Tr) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho804-test-and-compare-thread/msg5124906/#msg5124906

[Fungus]

1.09ns is good for about 400Mhz. 

963ps... 467MHz (0.45 / Tr)

0.45 / 1.09ns = 412Mhz

[Dimitrius76]

Hello All. Сan anyone post the firmware for the GD32F207 microcontroller here? I had an unpleasant situation when the microcontroller was broken by static discharge when I opened device.

[kds]

Hi All,
I couldn't figure out what are the possibilities to drive this AWG from Raspberry.
I saw some great python projects but I am not sure this is working with Raspi.
For my own usage this would somehow overcome the impossibility to store permanently custom signals.

[rifkum]

Problem found?

Hey group,
I have noticed that on my UTG962 the output level drops by about 6 dB when AM Modulation is turned On
this seems to happen even if the depth of modulation is 0%

test conditions
generate 14 MHz output at say -33 dBm sine wave
Set modulation to AM, 1 KHz, Sine wave, 0% Depth

Then when you turn the "Mod" off and on the level out drops by ~6 dB
This does not seem to happen with other modulation choices.
I see the drop even when the modulation "depth" is 0% (effectively off)


I uesd a Rigol DSA815 spectrum analyzer and also an HF Receiver (when pushing into the HF receiver I inserted a 40 dB attenuator to simulate an S9 signal of -73 dBm)

This appears to be a problem in the firmware
Can anyone confirm?

Thanks
Dwight

[Fungus]

I had a similar problem and I solved it by changing the internal impedance setting.

[rifkum]

@Fungus,
I changed from 50 ohm to 75 then 16 then HiZ and still a big drop when I enabled AM Modulation... even if the modulation % was set to 0%

Do you know what you did to fix it?  Or did you confirm that it did fix it??

dm

[807]

I get the same 6dB drop on mine as well. Can't say I've ever noticed it before you mentioned it. Tried different LOAD settings, but it makes no difference.

[rifkum]

Thank you @807 for confirming!
I have submitted email support request to Uni-T and will report if I hear anything.
Also finally found a USA phone number and will call it tomorrow.

Note for others...
You only see a dB output level option if you have 50/75 ohm output enabled, for HiZ output you only see voltage options on Amplitude but you do still see the voltage drop by half from it's original level before turning on AM Modulation.

Thanks
dm

[seronday]

With a 100% amplitude modulation,  the level on modulation peaks is 6dB above the unmodulated carrier level.

When the generator output level is set to maximum, the output amplifier stage may potentially be over driven on modulation peaks.
Reducing the carrier level by 6dB can avoid this problem.

Regards.

[807]

With a 100% amplitude modulation,  the level on modulation peaks is 6dB above the unmodulated carrier level.

When the generator output level is set to maximum, the output amplifier stage may potentially be over driven on modulation peaks.
Reducing the carrier level by 6dB can avoid this problem.

Regards.

At 100% modulation the level on modulation peaks are 6dB below the carrier.

This generator is capable of +17dBm when set to 50 Ohm load. So is well below it's maximum output when checked at -33dBm. I even tried it at it's lowest output setting of -56dBm, and again the output dropped by 6dB when AM modulation at 0% was turned on. However, the reading on the generator doesn't change, despite the 6dB drop on the spectrum analyzer.

The power in each AM sideband is 6dB down on the carrier, so for both sidebands added together there's 50% extra power in the signal. Perhaps the 6dB drop is a "blanket" approach to ensuring that the generator doesn't get overdriven if the carrier is set to maximum output with 100% modulation. The amplitude reading on the generator should decrease to indicate this though, which it doesn't.

[seronday]

With 100% amplitude modulation, the output voltage level on modulation peaks is twice the unmodulated level.
The UTG900 generators are specified to provide up to 10Vp-p into a 50 ohm load.
So to achieve this , the unmodulated carrier level needs to be reduced to 5Vp-p. (6dB drop).

This is mentioned in the UTG900 series User Manual near the top of page 16 on the copy that I have.

Regards.

[807]

With 100% amplitude modulation, the output voltage level on modulation peaks is twice the unmodulated level.
The UTG900 generators are specified to provide up to 10Vp-p into a 50 ohm load.
So to achieve this , the unmodulated carrier level needs to be reduced to 5Vp-p. (6dB drop).

This is mentioned in the UTG900 series User Manual near the top of page 16 on the copy that I have.

Regards.

Yeah. Sorry. I got hold of the wrong end of the stick 
I was refering to the sidebands as seen on a spectrum analyzer, but of course, if you look on the voltage envelope on a scope, then the 100% AM p-p waveform will be twice that of the unmodulated carrier.

With a dedicated RF generator, like my Marconi 2024 which has a maximum RF output of +13dBm, the output will drop to +7dBm if AM modulation is turned on. But this only applies to signals over +7dBm. At signal levels below this, the display on the generator & the output on the analzer remain the same.

The problem with the UTG962E is that the output is reduced for all output levels, whether they are near to maximum or not. OK, I can live with that, but the amplitude reading on the front panel should reflect this reduced level. You shouldn't have to remember to take 6dB off the reading when switching on AM.

[rifkum]

Thank you @Seronday!
So if my feeble mind comprehends your post...

I should have RTFM!
This is normal and expected behavior.

Would it not have been best if firmware showed that the level was now 6dB lower (or half voltage) so the user could make adjustments back to the desired level?
Or at least flash a warning  that the level has been reduce by 6dB when AM Mod is enabled?
Even better would be to boost the output by 6dB so user gets the expected level out... And then IF the user tried to boost the level past the unit capability it would warn that the max output is reduced when AM Mod is enabled

I'm curious if others with different brands of RF sig gens see this same behavior.
I have an old IFR radio service monitor and it does not exhibit this 6 dB drop when AM modulation is enabled.

Thanks for your reply!
dm

[rifkum]

The problem with the UTG962E is that the output is reduced for all output levels, whether they are near to maximum or not. OK, I can live with that, but the amplitude reading on the front panel should reflect this reduced level. You shouldn't have to remember to take 6dB off the reading when switching on AM.

Agree!  I guess I will make a label to stick on the top saying "With AM modulation enabled, level out is 6 dB below setpoint" or something like that.

I think Uni-T firmware could/should be updated to simply boost the output by 6dB and flash warning saying "with AM Mod the max output is reduced"

This seems like what Dave Jones would call a "trap for young players".

regards
dm

[807]

Idealy this generator should be programmed to do what the "big boys" do, & only reduce the carrier when it's set to within 6dB of it's maximum output level.

At the very least the firmware should have been written to show this reduced level on the Amplitude display. Surely that wouln't have taken much coding?

[rifkum]

@807,
Yes!! and I believe your second option is best since the normal workflow is to turn on Wave output level first and choose your desired level then second is to go to Mod and choose your modulation type.  And the assumption is that you will get your chosen modulated level out.

Still going to try to "hound" Uni-T tech support to correct the firmware but not holding my breath on that possibility.

Cheers
dm

Note: see my "fix" in below image

[rifkum]

Well, I got an initial response from Uni-T on my tech support question about the signal dropping 6 dB when Mod is enabled...

Message I sent:

There is a problem with the UTG962 signal generator.
When AM modulation is turned on the signal level drops by 6 dB
This happens even if the "depth" of modulation is 0%
Please confirm that this is a problem

Test conditions... 
Wave: Sine, Freq 14 MHz
Mod Sine, Freq 1 KHz

Turning Mod off/on causes the output signal to drop by 6 dB

Their Reply...

Hi
Thanks for asking the question!

AM modulation is different from FM modulation , the signal was transmitted as side band ,and the side band level will be suppressed. With 100% point of modulation , the primary side band signal will be compressed 6dB .

At the point of 100% modulation, the spectrum appears identical to a normal double-sideband AM transmission, with the center carrier at 0 dB reference level, and both side bands on either side of the primary carrier at -6 dB.

Please  refer to the link to get more theoretical explanations :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sideband_modulation

 

And here is my reply back to them...

Thank you for the reply.
I agree that the side bands may be 6 dB down but in the case of the UTG962 it is the MAIN Carrier that is dropping by 6 dB when MOD is enabled no matter what the % modulation.
The center carrier SHOULD NOT DROP!!  And the level out should match what the display shows.

Please do a check on your end with a sample unit and you will see that the Center carrier drops by 6 dB when Mod is enabled.
This should not happen!!

The display on the UTG962 still shows the initial set value even though the actual level out has dropped.
This is a firmware bug!  The MAIN carrier should still show the correct value of the WAVE as displayed on the SINE output screen.

Please let me know how your test performs.

Thank you for looking into this.

Hopefully they will actually do some testing.
I'll report if I hear anything else.

Someone please speak up if I am in error here about this being a firmware issue!! 

[807]

Be interesting to see how they reply to your follow up.

Out of interest, I looked at a similar AWG, the Owon DGE2070. It appears that range of generators also behave the same as the UTG962. Here's what their manual says about AM modulation...

"In 0% modulation, the output amplitude is half of the specified value. In 100% modulation, the output amplitude is equal to the specified value."

Owon have got it wrong too IMO.

[TheoB]

I received my UTG962 and noticed that the DC offset voltage is out of spec by a lot.
I wanted to use the device as a 25 Ohm power source. A power source that can be programmed to any DC, ramp or noise voltage.
The specification says +/-3% of offset value +/-6% of amplitude value +/-2mV
I interpret this as +/-3% of the DC value +/-2mV if I set the amplitude to a small value as is the case with a DC "wave" output setting. Anyhow I get up to 12% error at +/-600mV.
I can send the device back as being not properly calibrated, but wanted to know first what others see. Simply put it in HiZ mode and measure the DC output voltage at some DC values. See my error plot.

[wasedadoc]

Notwithstanding the offset observations, the output impedance is always 50 Ohms regardless of the setting. Changing that setting only makes the display show what will (or should) be found across such an external load.

If you truly want 25 Ohms, connect a 50 Ohm resistor from output to ground and set the dial to 50 Ohm.

[TheoB]

I know, I have a 50 Ohm load connected to lower the impedance to 25 Ohm. My dut is a lower power tranceiver capable of running on a CR2032 battery. So 25 Ohm is ok.
The offset error however, is not the same for HiZ and when terminated with 50 Ohm. For DC the generator source is clearly not a voltage source with 50 Ohm output impedance only.

[Skyguard]

Hello!
I want to make a query.
I have a UTG962e that is slightly frequency shifted.
Approximately 30 hz when it is emitting 10,000,000 hz.-
Does anyone know of a hidden menu command or other way to correct this small difference?
Thank you so much

[Mechatrommer]

how about typing 9999970 Hz? or check the clock?

[electr_peter]

IIRC, there was a post (and video) how to add 10MHz reference input to UTG962.

[Skyguard]

how about typing 9999970 Hz? or check the clock?