Author Topic: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator  (Read 11640 times)

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Offline Messtechniker

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2019, 11:16:29 am »
Since I'm in the market for something feature- and price-wise between
FY 6xxx, JDS and Rigol, Siglent, these UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 seem just right
for me.  8) The audio range is well covered by the equipment I have, but very occasionally
I need/want to go a bit beyond the audio range to check high frequency
audio input filters, for example. Currently using an el-cheapo XR 2206
bottom-of-the-barrel generator for such checks. :palm:

Will probably have to wait a bit until these generators
become available in Germany. :popcorn:
Agilent 34465A, Siglent SDG 2042X, Hameg HMO1022, R&S HMC 8043, Voltcraft VC 940 and M-Audio Audiophile 192
 

Offline gby

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2019, 08:14:02 pm »
I have been on the lookout for affordable generators that can output sin and cosine at the same frequency and handle changes "smoothly".  Ch1 = sine wave, Ch2 = sine wave at 90 Deg phase to Ch1 locked at the same frequency.  By "smoothly" I mean

1. You can change the frequency and both channels change at the same time with no glitches.  This means changing the frequency in a step at the same time on both channels AND not changing the instantaneous phase at the frequency step change.  The Feeltech and JDS generators always seem to have a glitch.  For example of bad behavior on the JDS6600 see https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/anybody-know-anything-about-this-signal-generator/msg1242238/#msg1242238

2.  Can both channels be frequency swept at the same time?  Specifically can Ch1 be sine, Ch2 be cosine and as the frequency is sweeping do the two channels stay locked at 90 apart at all times?  The same link listed above shows the JDS6600 sweeping both channels but the relative phase is all over the place/not locked at 90 Deg like it should be.

3.  For bonus points can the amplitude of both channels we stepped to a new value at the same time?

If someone could try the test listed in the link in item 1 above on the UNI-T I would be very interested to see the result.  Thanks.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2020, 02:07:16 am »
I don't see a way to change frequency on both channels at the same time. They do however stay in sync with a specified offset if you set the same frequency on both channel manually.
Alex
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2020, 03:38:15 am »
Happy New Year altogether!

@gby: It seems you've got to climb up the price ladder somewhat to get the features you're asking for. Just for interest, I hooked up a "pimped" Rigol DG800 to a scope and played a little with the settings. The good news is: it permits to couple both frequency and phase of the two channels simultaneously. The bad news -- well, see the first screenshot  ::)

Then I tested my SDG6000X in the same configuration, and very much to my surprise, it performs flawlessly. Once again initialization was some hassle, apparently it requires a certain sequence of coupling the parameters, but once properly arranged, it will keep the phase relation of the two channels even through frequency changes (I tested up to 50MHz) without any glitches (second screenshot). Since the SDG2000X is of a similar design, maybe someone who owns one of these can verify if this AWG performs similarly. Obviously, both of these AWGs play in a different league than the UTG962, but the DG800 wouldn't be too far off.

I'm curious how Rigol's new DG2000 performs since they specifically advertise its "seamless" performance, and first comparisons indicate that this AWG is based on the same hardware as the DG800...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 04:06:56 am by TurboTom »
 
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Offline gby

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2020, 11:10:37 pm »
TurboTom, I can verify that both the Siglent SDG2000x and SDG6000x families of generators can step frequency, do sweeps, and even frequency modulation all with no glitches in the output sine, cosine waves.

I worked with Siglent as a test case on the SDG2042x going through about 10 FW bugs/feature requests to get this to all work.  It took about 9 months but I was very impressed and grateful that Siglent did the work and that it all works so well.  The SDG6000x inherited this capability by having algorithms, FW based on the SDG2000x.  So far, in my experience, they are the only generators that can do this right/without horrible glitching.

My question here was just to see if a lower cost generator could also do it.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 08:55:57 pm by gby »
 

Offline InvisibleKid

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2020, 04:38:24 pm »
I have a questions for owners. At first I am interested in sweep function: does it have proper synchronization signal? I mean one pulse on each sweep. I own fy6800 and sweep relaisation here is horrible! There in square wave on sync output with exact frequency of main output while sweeping - just unusable.

I also interested about noise performance. Does it have any garbage from power supply on output? And another question: how much exactly does the output voltage correspond to the set voltage? Does it have unwanted DC-biasing?

I saw waveforms what you guys posting here and it looks decent for me. But how it can be sine on 60 MHz with 200 megasamples per second? If I doing correct math its about 3.33(3) points per cycle. But constructing sine cycle by ~3 points sounds ridiculous. Does it work because low pass filter?

I asks about high frequency range because I want to use this generator for determining frequency response of filters with center frequency about 40-50 MHz and hope this devise would work nice.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 04:42:01 pm by InvisibleKid »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2020, 07:48:39 pm »
I have a questions for owners. At first I am interested in sweep function: does it have proper synchronization signal? I mean one pulse on each sweep. I own fy6800 and sweep relaisation here is horrible! There in square wave on sync output with exact frequency of main output while sweeping - just unusable.
yes it has proper sync, but you need to enable in system, by defalt its off (shared, as/with freq counter input) rise on start and fall in the middle of sweep, but rise sync is ahead of start sweep by about 300ns, see attached (10-60MHz sweep, 1ms 5Vpp)... during non sweep (normal sine output), the sync still produces square wave (with 2-3ns rise/fall time) at several multiples of main sine output. later attached picture (625KHz sync square with 10MHz sine output, 937KHz sync square with 60MHz output) so if anyone need fast rise time, sync can give that, but only up to nearly 1MHz freq.

I also interested about noise performance. Does it have any garbage from power supply on output? And another question: how much exactly does the output voltage correspond to the set voltage? Does it have unwanted DC-biasing?

I saw waveforms what you guys posting here and it looks decent for me. But how it can be sine on 60 MHz with 200 megasamples per second? If I doing correct math its about 3.33(3) points per cycle. But constructing sine cycle by ~3 points sounds ridiculous. Does it work because low pass filter?
see THD/FFT below for 10MHz and 60MHz sine (0dBm). i'm not aware of unwanted DC biasing happening. i can say Vpp shown on AWG screen is tally with signal output (mine have some difference maybe due to diy/china 50 ohm termination not really 50 ohm)

what i like so far... signal is flat from basically DC up to 60MHz (5Vpp max), so we dont have to do mental subtraction when trying to see a DUT respond. what i dont like, drawn arbitrary wave from china SW cant be uploaded to the AWG. i believe i clicked all buttons and can guess where the "upload" button is, but once dialog box popped up, we can select arb wave file, but one last button (i believe "upload to device") is disabled :palm: communication with device shown in text box as XXXXX:0 (X = rectangle box) maybe this AWG is not ready to receive arb data from PC? or FW is not completed yet?

and to note, at 5V power input it uses 1A current, so 1000mah battery can last only an hour.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 06:12:30 am by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 
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Offline InvisibleKid

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2020, 09:56:33 pm »
Thank you for such a complete answer, Mechatrommer!
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2020, 10:30:25 pm »

...
I saw waveforms what you guys posting here and it looks decent for me. But how it can be sine on 60 MHz with 200 megasamples per second? If I doing correct math its about 3.33(3) points per cycle. But constructing sine cycle by ~3 points sounds ridiculous. Does it work because low pass filter?
...


Exactly. Usually, there is a high order reconstruction low-pass filter installed right after the DAC. This filter has got a very steep slope right above the maximum frequency the AWG is capable to output, but considerably below half of the sampling frequency. As per the Shannon Theorem, in order to digitize or reconstruct a sine wave, two samples per period will suffice. Of course, this "ideal" case is not feasible in reality but for example, the Rigol DG800/900 series reaches 100MHz at only 250MSa/s which is just 2.5 samples per period. And they produce a surprisingly "cleanish"  ;) output at these frequencies...

Here you can see the nineth-order filters of the two channels of the DG800/900 in the right half of the photo. In this AWG, a differential arrangement is utilized and the filters are installed directly in-line with the current-outputs of the DAC.




The UT9x2 utilizes a single-ended configuration of seventh order and the filter is installed after the transimpedance amplifier (which may cause additional distortion since the TIA "sees" a much higher bandwidth signal).
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 10:32:37 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2020, 11:34:04 pm »
this is what i trace so far. you can see the "desampling?" filter there after OPA695. i didnt trace filter -> THS3092 closely yet, but basically thats the signal flow. this is more than 2 layers board so quite difficult to trace connections. i traced the 20ns rise time square signal comes from directly at the DAC (scrubbed, looks like AD9477 pin compatible) output. if anything to play around with risetime, those resistor network between DAC and OPA695 need to be played with.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 11:39:54 pm by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 
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Online NANDBlog

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2020, 01:35:36 pm »
I just found this generator, it looks like a really neat tiny instrument. Especially for 100 EUR. Does it power itself from USB, or do you have to use the plugpack?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2020, 02:23:14 pm »
I just found this generator, it looks like a really neat tiny instrument. Especially for 100 EUR. Does it power itself from USB, or do you have to use the plugpack?
no it cant be powered with USB port, you have to use the round socket (provided 5V plugpack) i think the reason to this, is it uses 1A of current which may burden or even damage PC USB port. maybe modding the round socket to miniUSB port if you want but thinking about this, we may still accidentally connect the miniUSB to the PC.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2020, 02:59:19 pm »
talking about clock jitter... i read the earlier version of FeelElec units have pretty serious jitter problem (4ns in one clock cycle). this seems nonsensical in modern design...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fy6800-vs-fy6900/msg2539278/#msg2539278

i tried to find jitter in this Uni-T AWG but cant find such problem even in 100 cycles of 10MHz square or sine (10us trigger offset). attached are 9.00024MHz (9.00027MHz displayed :palm:) just to mimic the test on the above picture. i also tried some prime figures such as 7,777,777 Hz just to knock out DDS clock alignment, but i still cant see it.

but they keep recommending those units to newbies who seek budget AM/FG. whats the point of recommending a 25% cheaper unit if it has a very bad performance? need to tweak the PSU, istr nastier amplitude shift (during relay change/click) etc... or am i missing something or did something wrong with my test? the "Shake" performance specification of UTG is 0.2ns, i feel like my test is inlined with this figure (5ns minimum time/div of my DS1054Z)

ps edit: ok so far i can see 1ns jitter while sliding the 100 cycles of 7.7778MHz square...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 03:12:04 pm by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline alextwin007

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2020, 06:09:15 pm »

but they keep recommending those units to newbies who seek budget AM/FG. whats the point of recommending a 25% cheaper unit if it has a very bad performance? need to tweak the PSU, istr nastier amplitude shift (during relay change/click) etc... or am i missing something or did something wrong with my test? the "Shake" performance specification of UTG is 0.2ns, i feel like my test is inlined with this figure (5ns minimum time/div of my DS1054Z)


I'm currently looking for a budget AM/FG, and one thing about this one compared to the fytech ones is that there isn't much info about this one.  I'm currently following this thread, but ironically you know what you are getting with the fytech over this am/fg due to the lack of information online (despite the fact that I trust UNT more).  Last time I looked for reviews on this, or videos I found nothing.  My guess is that is keeping people away (for me I'm just going to wait for more info to come out).

Having a test equipment addiction is difficult when you don't have a lot of room.  The solution, only collect small adorable test equipment.

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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2020, 08:38:50 pm »
..and one thing about this one compared to the fytech ones is that there isn't much info about this one....    (for me I'm just going to wait for more info to come out).
i think you wont find much as there's not much to tinker about, it just works out of the box, except few caveats thats already mentioned here, which i think very minimal and contribute very little to (my) practical application. checking the seller's rating so far also not showing much negative about it, only due to incompatible power plug style. you maybe wise about the decision to wait, sometime i do the same thing to newly released stuffs. things like this unit is not PC programmable yet, i hope they are currently working on this. but arbitrary mode is seldomly used for me, but some eager users may think or find this feature is important, so their mileage may vary.

I'm currently following this thread, but ironically you know what you are getting with the fytech over this am/fg due to the lack of information online (despite the fact that I trust UNT more).  Last time I looked for reviews on this, or videos I found nothing...
its just a matter of some youtuber get this into their hand and make some review in motion picture form or to make comparison side by side with feelec. comparing my experience using this utg962 vs from what i read about feelec, i think uni-t is still the right decision albeit its higher price (proper GUI keypads warrants this imho). i mean how can people possibly live with 4ns jitter and still recommending it? i feel like i miss something big about some technical issue of a FG/AWG specification/functionality.

btw, this unit is just few weeks old, i was just looking for the cheapest Feelec FG when this thing emerged from one single seller Uni-T Official Aliexpress Store (and it seems now still is), but UNI-T is a well known T&M manufacturer, i have few UNI-T brand tools already, so i have very little doubt that they will produce normal consumer grade (instead of "hobbiest" grade stuff that we need to tinker about out of box), which imho they did. imho its professionally made and i achieved one of my objective to learn their psu topology (5V to ±13V)
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline alextwin007

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2020, 12:39:09 am »
For those who are looking for info about this, a video review has finally been posted, but it's in spanish.
Even so it gives you an idea about the UI and what it's like to use.
Having a test equipment addiction is difficult when you don't have a lot of room.  The solution, only collect small adorable test equipment.

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Offline Elm

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2020, 09:45:36 pm »
... this unit is just few weeks old,...
Look at this:
[attachimg=1]
I don't know the age of this model, I have found this picture on ebay. Assume the "new" UTG-962 is a remake...
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 09:47:51 pm by Elm »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2020, 05:35:22 am »
I dont think its a remake.. the utg2000 series are full size awg, bncs on the front, and only go up 20+MHz at $300+. Someone should already sniffed it earlier if they are bang per buck...
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline alextwin007

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2020, 06:31:37 am »
I'm guessing it's not a remake, but the common UI form factor means they might be re-using a lot of the GUI software.  Hopefully that means the UI is a bit more mature and it is a bit more intuitive then if it was there first attempt at a UI like this.
Having a test equipment addiction is difficult when you don't have a lot of room.  The solution, only collect small adorable test equipment.

Looking for a tek 1401 / 1401A, if you have one message me
 
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2020, 03:32:22 pm »
tonight fired up the UTG962 to test something. properly terminated the sweep trigger (sync) signal with  50 ohm and then i see a fast rise time more than my DS1054Z can see. so i verify with my SDA6000... its showing 963ps risetime (10-90%), thats a 300MHz+ bandwidth (0.35 / Tr)... this signal also verified my DS1054Z is nearly 200MHz BW 8) (0.35 / 1.8ns = 194MHz) now i know. fwiw..
https://m.eet.com/media/1140862/19209-263113.pdf
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline JEntwistle

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2020, 02:02:48 pm »
I just stumbled upon this waveform generator, and it seems perfect for my level of experience (beginner).      Has anyone checked for voltage leakage?  The Feeltech units have had well documented ungrounded connections.   I wouldn't expect this here, and I assume someone would have mentioned this already if it were an issue, but just wanted to check.

Thanks!
 

Offline Messtechniker

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2020, 03:06:48 pm »
None UNI-T UTG 96x currently available anywhere on the market.  :palm:
It seems there was one batch available in some non-European countries
at the beginning of this year. And then no further batch.  :-//
Search hits became fewer and fewer as time went by. :wtf:
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Offline JEntwistle

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2020, 03:31:14 pm »
Yes, I have not seen the 962 anywhere. I will have to settle for the 932.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2020, 03:42:09 pm »
Has anyone checked for voltage leakage?  The Feeltech units have had well documented ungrounded connections.
Leakage from where to where?

The unit takes external 5V DC supply, so it is fully isolated from mains.
Alex
 

Offline JEntwistle

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Re: UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2020, 03:56:57 pm »
Ah, you are right.  I mixed up the situation.  This article explains the issue:  https://chinese-electronics-products-tested.blogspot.com/p/fy3200s-function-generator-tested.html

So with external DC, should not apply.

Thanks for the help.
 


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