Author Topic: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments  (Read 978 times)

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Offline Hugoneus

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Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« on: September 17, 2018, 01:30:11 pm »
In this episode Shahriar demonstrates the effort for collecting affordable components and instruments in the past year to be able to generate mm-wave frequencies in the lab. The main goal is to generate synthesized CW signals beyond 26.5GHz and to be able to analyze them on the Keysight MXA Spectrum Analyzer.

Several instruments and components are which include the HP 83752B Synthesized Sweeper, HP 83556A mm-Wave Source Modules between 26.5-40GHz and 40-60GHz using doubler and trippler architectures, HP 8349B 2.0-20GHz amplifier, HP 11970 series harmonic mixers and OML DPL313B diplexer. Combining all these instruments along with various waveguide to coax converters mm-wave generation and detection is successfully demonstrated.

Finally, a full teardown of the mm-wave source module is presented which includes the preamplifier as well the waveguide module with very interesting design architecture.

You can watch the video here: [41 Minutes]
youtu.be/eUpxhZ0UEt4

More videos at The Signal Path:
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Shahriar Shahramian
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Offline Hugoneus

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 07:54:17 pm »
Don’t forget to leave ideas on what kind of stuff you like to see with these mm-wave modules.


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Offline Tony_G

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 11:00:20 pm »
I see a lot of people saying they're experimenting with frequencies this high but I'd be really interested in an actual non-commercial project that worked that high.

Maybe a project series that shows something like, "...here's a cool project that you can do for home if you happen to have mm wave test gear..." Or something like that :)

TonyG

Offline Hugoneus

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 01:51:53 am »
I see a lot of people saying they're experimenting with frequencies this high but I'd be really interested in an actual non-commercial project that worked that high.

Maybe a project series that shows something like, "...here's a cool project that you can do for home if you happen to have mm wave test gear..." Or something like that :)

TonyG


Hmmm. Interesting, OK. I’ll think of something.


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Offline DaJMasta

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 02:20:18 am »
Some neat gear!

I don't have ideas for specific experiments, but I've really enjoyed some of the experiments that are measuring fundamental constants or concepts (speed of sound from one video comes to mind).  The idea of RF transparency I don't think has been shown extensively, and since waveguides and so many of these very high frequency structures are so physically dependent, maybe experiments involving changing waveguide geometries, evaluating materials or constructions for radome material, or something that otherwise demonstrates the need for physical precision and material consistency when dealing with such high frequencies.

Thanks for all the fascinating videos over the years  :-+
 

Offline tkamiya

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 03:22:40 pm »
I'd like to see projects that involves receiving signal from satellite.  They primary operate in that region. 
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2018, 03:43:52 pm »
what about proxmity/distance sensors?
 

Online borjam

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2018, 04:11:28 pm »
I see a lot of people saying they're experimenting with frequencies this high but I'd be really interested in an actual non-commercial project that worked that high.

Maybe a project series that shows something like, "...here's a cool project that you can do for home if you happen to have mm wave test gear..." Or something like that :)
There's a ham magazine called Dubus (www.dubus.org) covering microwave experimentation. You may find some information there :)

 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2018, 06:40:12 pm »
Don’t forget to leave ideas on what kind of stuff you like to see with these mm-wave modules.


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Reproduce some of the early experimental work of J. C. Bose, maybe.  Most people have no idea how far ahead of his time he was. 
 

Offline Tony_G

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2018, 08:41:45 pm »
I see a lot of people saying they're experimenting with frequencies this high but I'd be really interested in an actual non-commercial project that worked that high.

Maybe a project series that shows something like, "...here's a cool project that you can do for home if you happen to have mm wave test gear..." Or something like that :)
There's a ham magazine called Dubus (www.dubus.org) covering microwave experimentation. You may find some information there :)

Thanks - Appreciate the link, looks interesting - I was thinking more along the lines of something that isn't usual. there might not be anything in it but I thought it was worth suggesting.

Maybe a better way of saying it might be a less traditional problem space? For example, experiements in building wave guides to understand the signals and material theory is a really valuable reason for personal experimentation but something non-traditional might be using mm wave signals to count the number of beer cans in your garage fridge.

TonyG

Offline radioactive

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2018, 08:59:32 pm »
Nice video.  I realize it probably sounds like a waste of time, but I would be interested to see a sweep of some transmission lines on FR408/FR408HR material at these frequencies (other materials would be interesting as well).  I'm curious if anything interesting happens due to dispersion and I do not have that kind of equipment available to me.
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Quest for mm-Wave Capability: Teardown, Analysis & Experiments
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2018, 09:39:06 pm »
I wanna see practical experiments like radomes and stuff like the effect of home roof on antenna tuning etc in the microwave region.

also stuff on dielectric lens

also I am interested in the non idealities of things like home made wave guides made of PCB material and experiments with shielding, such as evaluation of gasket materials, liners, anechoic chamber design/materials (see the superthread on this forum) etc.

also comparison of homemade and commercial antennas so we can see what kind of results we can get with reasonable home workshop tolerances (since you have the standards and advanced equipment to compare it with). Like what someone can expect from a standard gain horn that's made out of copper sheet and soldered together, homemade biconical antennas, and so on.

As it is you need really deep pockets to really enjoy the channel and there is no diy type stuff at all.. it would be at least nice to see how bad the DIY solution (if it is) so we don't dream about it. I feel like I get a really good over view of microwave test equipment but not much more and not much about the uses of microwaves.

I mean all that pops into mind from your channel is some kind of point to point communication system.

Maybe something about study of dielectric materials *measurement/catagorization*, radar circuits (automotive or even ones for quad copter), radio astronomy, stealth/absorptive coatings, other stuff with nature (maybe clouds?), spy bug hunting, microscopic techniques?, etc. I kind of start to ask myself "why am I getting all this microwave stuff anyway?"

I mean I kinda got an idea of what microwaves can be used for, but I don't know the specifics of how complicated doing any of those things is at home to have meaningful results. It would be interesting to know from a professional where are 'green areas' for such use of microwaves.

I personally got alot of microwave equipment including wideband power amplifiers, big analyzers, filters, etc.. and its kinda sitting dust. I was hoping I can do more with it then build circuits that gather remote telemetry (still useful but its kind of useful but I am looking for stuff different then using microwave as information carrier). But from this side, it would also be nice to know what we can use this equipment for to better design communications systems, where the big expensive stuff we bought can be used to tune up some kind of data-sheet solution that we might be tempted to implement in a 'spray and pray' fashion.

I figure the counter-surveillance stuff might be too political to do for your personality/channel/workplace though.

It's a bit much to even want to spend anything on building materials for testing out home projects after you roll out the cash for some MW TE, cables, etc.

right now its even kinda hard to figure out what kind of tooling and machinery you need to do some of this stuff. Also I would like to know more about surface finish and coating and maybe some of the processes that go into making stuff like waveguide, tuners, etc.

http://www.dubus.org/ does seem kind of relevant to my post.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 09:56:32 pm by coppercone2 »
 


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