Author Topic: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?  (Read 22953 times)

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Offline plesa

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2016, 09:13:29 am »
For type of U OCXO you must remove RF module and after that plastic cap. You are fight that standard OCXO use the inner holes and it is much smaller.
Maybe try to look into to other service manual for Keysight gear for type.
I suppose they are using same UOCXO across platforms, like hey did it with 10811.

BTW why you are trying to modify some production equipment which is probably covered by warranty?
Did you asked repair center for quote?
Why is not external UOCXO an option?
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2016, 10:41:43 am »
OK, since I was curious as well, I took it apart again and removed the GPIB and 6 GHz module.
The UOCXO is nicely covered with a plastic hood.
Here are the pictures

The UOCXO is of following type
- VECTRON
- C4550A2-0281
- 10.000000 MHz
- 22158-0097
- Made in 1240


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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2016, 10:43:01 am »
More pictures
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2016, 10:49:07 am »
A few pictures of the GPIB interface board.

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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2016, 10:55:02 am »
Interestingly, there is a CR2032 on the Front Panel

Ok, now back together ...
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Offline Dr. Frank

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2016, 01:23:15 pm »
HighVoltage, that's very interesting.. could you please also provide the dimensions of this OCXO, the pinning, and the output waveform (square wave or sine)?

I think, VECTRON offers OCXOs with standard pinning, which might fit, but with customized specifications for KS.
Maybe something like their OX-208: https://www.vectron.com/products/ocxo/OX-208.pdf

Frank
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 01:24:48 pm by Dr. Frank »
 
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Offline carl_labTopic starter

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2016, 02:18:59 pm »
Thank you very much!
Now I can try to get those (U)OCXOs as spare parts.
1900+ euro (as offered by Keysight distributor) for changing one of these seem to be a bit over the top...
 
I don't know which jerk ordered counters without OCXO for clock adjustment...  |O
What I know, those counters replaced out-dated 53131 opt. 010.
The specs of 53220A (without option) is inbetween 53131 without option and 54131 opt. 010.

I'm not sure about warranty. The counters maybe out in the meantime...
I also don't know, if warranty stickers are attached.  Most gear I see here in the lab is without stickers...
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 08:51:39 pm by carl_lab »
 
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Offline carl_labTopic starter

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2016, 02:39:08 pm »
HighVoltage, that's very interesting.. could you please also provide the dimensions of this OCXO, the pinning, and the output waveform (square wave or sine)?

Pinning is 19x19mm, case dimensions 1"x1" (Vectron C4550A2).
-> www.vectron.com/products/ocxo/C4550.pdf



The grey plasic cap seems to be the same, that is used with standard oscillator.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 12:04:23 pm by carl_lab »
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2016, 03:00:11 pm »

I don't know which jerk ordered counters without OCXO for clock adjustment...  |O
What I know, those counters replaced out-dated 54131 opt. 010.
The specs of 53220A (without option) is inbetween 54131 without option and 54131 opt. 010.

You mean 53131?

The 53131 without opt 010 was as bad as the 53220A without option 010

After a few month of being off, I turned my HP GPS Time Domain on again today.
Here are my three counters after a few hours of warmup and GPS-Lock on the HP Z3805A.

The 53132A was upgraded by me here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/agilent-53132a-repair-(and-possible-upgrade)/msg843138/#msg843138
This one is right on target in the shortest possible time.
Every single time I turn it on, it is fluctuating only the last 2 digits

The 53230A with all options was the one I opened in this thread
This one takes much longer to warmup than the 53132A to be stable after a cold start
But after one hour it has a stability about the same as the 53132A

The 53220A is without Option 010 and is horrible in comparison
After every cold start it finds a different spot where it settles
Interestingly, this one was just repaired and calibrated at Keysight Germany in (warranty) but
is far off. Why having 15 digits, when the last 6 have no meaning?

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Offline carl_labTopic starter

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2016, 03:26:50 pm »
The 53220A is without Option 010 and is horrible in comparison
After every cold start it finds a different spot where it settles
Interestingly, this one was just repaired and calibrated at Keysight Germany in (warranty) but
is far off. Why having 15 digits, when the last 6 have no meaning?
7 digits, not 6.   ;)

You mean 53131?
Yes, exactly: 53131A.

Bad combination:
Laptop keyboard and my "wurstfingers"...
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 03:32:35 pm by carl_lab »
 
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Offline carl_labTopic starter

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2016, 03:44:10 pm »
could you please also provide...output waveform (square wave or sine)?
Waveform is square 5Vpp, supply voltage 5V.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 07:41:03 pm by carl_lab »
 
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Offline andyturk

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2017, 08:04:10 am »
My project for the evening was opening up a 53220A with the standard timebase and dropping in an "aftermarket" OCXO. The specs on the Abracon AOCJY3A-10.000MHz-E seem pretty close to the original Vectron part used by Keysight, so I figured I'd give it a try. At worst, I'll have to open it back up and reverse the surgery.

After replacing the oscillator and removing the two 0-ohm resistors called out on the silkscreen, the unit booted right up and passed its self test. It also registers the 010 option on the "About" screen. Surprisingly, it didn't complain about being out of calibration, but it was clearly off by ~2 Hz.

I let it warm up for a while and calibrated it with 10Mhz from a rubidium source (PRS10). It seems to work well, although I'm not a time nut and don't have anything better than PRS10 to compare it to.
 
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Offline TheSteve

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2017, 08:21:20 am »
Always good to have more options. I'd give this a try if I was looking for one - https://www.ebay.com/itm/181776010665
VE7FM
 
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Offline HalFET

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2017, 08:32:14 am »
Rubidium reference modules run <300 bucks from the surplus telecom stockpile these days. So it'd most like be cheaper to just strap one of those to the top of the unit and get that the rubidium reference certified. Added advantage is that marketing can then claim things were calibrated atomic clocks.
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2017, 03:27:09 pm »
Great to know, that the replacement worked
Thanks for this info, andyturk

One of these days I will get a Rubidium standard as well.
I just have no idea, which one to get, there are too many options.
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Offline swixo

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2018, 04:49:15 pm »
Going to try this upgrade today. 
Got my vacuum desolder, RU GPSDO reference for calibration and the part on its way. 
Will update how it goes.

The stock oscillator is absolute crap.  Couple that with a sloppy at best factory calibration,
I am a little disappointed in Keysight here.
 
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Offline swixo

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2018, 04:00:57 am »
Well it works!

Swapped out the small TCXO and installed the OCXO.  Cleaned up the solder flux
mess -- it looks super clean.

Self tests pass.  About box says OCXO installed!
System is MUCH More stable after warm-up, which takes about 45 minutes.  No issue there.
Calibrated with RU standard and I am good to go.  Total cost about 320$ which included
Saturday delivery of the part -- AND the Vacuum desolder!
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Upgrading Counter 53220A to Option 010 Ultra High-stability OCXO Timebase?
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2018, 09:11:31 pm »
What model and type of OCXO did you install?
Pictures?
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Offline swixo

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I used this:

https://www.mouser.com/productdetail/815-aocjy3a-10m-e

Didnt take 'after' pix, sorry.  But the pix earlier in this thread are spot-on.
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Good to know, that this mouser supplied part works well for the upgrade.
I assume you did not have to change any settings and the instrument detected the new OCXO being installed.

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Offline swixo

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The procedure is changing the TCXO for the OCXO, then removing the two
zero ohm resistors near the clock zone. 

The firmware detects that change all by itself.  Whether it is the presence of the
new part alone - or the removal of the resistors is not known.

s
 
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Offline TheSteve

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FYI the Vectron C4550A1-0213 I linked to above works just fine, and was cheap. I got mine from a different seller for 17 bucks though.
VE7FM
 
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Offline swixo

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Steve - Did you install one of those EBay OXCOs in an instrument?  How's the drift?
 
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Offline TheSteve

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Steve - Did you install one of those EBay OXCOs in an instrument?  How's the drift?

Yes I have one in a 53230A. I haven't checked drift lately, I'll fire up the unit and see how it looks. When I also had a factory 010 here it was every bit as good. Could be a crap shoot with a used ebay sourced one I suppose.

edit:

Just fired it up and compared it to my GPSDO. I do have the standby mode selected that keeps the OCXO warm. It has been more then 6 months since the last cal from the same GPSDO.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 01:32:40 am by TheSteve »
VE7FM
 
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Offline swixo

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Seems like a lot of drift, doesn't it?
 
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