Author Topic: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter  (Read 5204 times)

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Online Martin72

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2024, 10:34:00 pm »
Maybe we should talk about the new Tonghui products in a new thread, what do you think?
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2024, 11:07:20 pm »
Hello,

I have the price from www.directindustry.de.

Best regards
egonotto

Not that far off. That's $62517.21 USD according to google. Add your VAT and that usually matches about the US price. That's 19% for you, right? So my $73k USD price is slightly cheaper. 😉😉

Where did you find the weight?
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2024, 11:08:18 pm »
Maybe we should talk about the new Tonghui products in a new thread, what do you think?

Are you suggesting the TH2851-130 is not an upgrade from the DE-5000?? 😉
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Offline egonotto

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2024, 02:06:18 am »
 
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Online the Chris

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2024, 06:35:20 am »
I've got an Anbei AT826 that does it's job quite well. Did some comparison measurements with an Agilent E4980A and both agreed to within 0.1% max at each frequency. Anbei offers tabletop versions, might be worth a look.
 

Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2024, 09:13:10 pm »
I did a Kelvin lead mod to my unit many years ago, I did a video about it at the time but you will have to excuse the video quality, it was very early on in my YouTube journey...


Cheers Scott

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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2024, 12:05:54 pm »
Looks like a good opportunity to get a discounted TH2830 whilst the replacement 2840 is coming in.

I'm very tempted by the shiny new Tonghui, good display and a nice set of leads, but will it be any better in practice than the HP 4263A? Talk me into it, or talk me out of it... ;)
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2024, 04:11:23 pm »
Looks like a good opportunity to get a discounted TH2830 whilst the replacement 2840 is coming in.

I'm very tempted by the shiny new Tonghui, good display and a nice set of leads, but will it be any better in practice than the HP 4263A? Talk me into it, or talk me out of it... ;)

The display alone is worth it. Also better general accuracy, more frequencies to choose from, etc.

ETA: ...and the ability to improve it to 200kHz. 😉
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 04:18:17 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Online Martin72

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2024, 03:22:49 pm »
The display alone is worth it. Also better general accuracy, more frequencies to choose from, etc.

The same applies to the ET35 series from East Tester, except that you pay significantly less for an original 200khz test frequency, for example.
The display is “huge” at 7” and the basic accuracy is the same.
If you can accept that some parts of the software are messed up, it's a serious alternative to the TH28XX and no comparison to the DE5000 at all.
 
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2024, 04:36:00 pm »
I did a Kelvin lead mod to my unit many years ago, I did a video about it at the time but you will have to excuse the video quality, it was very early on in my YouTube journey...




Scott,

We did the same Kelvin Cable Mod a few years ago as well and found the supplied short Alligator Clips worked just as well. We found this adaptation worthwhile (shown below), as it allows the DER-5000 to utilize all the various fixtures intended for LCR meters including fixtures for the difficult to measure SMD components.

Here's a couple examples of a 1Ω 0.1% 2512 Resistor and a 1.0104pF C0G 0805 Capacitor using a Custom Split-Kelvin SMD LCR Meter Fixture and cheap Standard SMD Fixture.

Anyway, no fudging or manipulating numbers/display, why we think highly of the handheld DER-5000 LCR Meter.

Best
« Last Edit: October 18, 2024, 06:12:31 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2024, 05:47:01 pm »
Here's an example of using the DE-5000 with the custom to BNC adapter with a Standard SMD LCR Meter fixture. This is with a DUT Precision C0G 0.1uF SMD Capacitor at 1KHz, note the comparative results with the Tonghui TH2830 LCR meter.

Folks with the DE-5000 and other handheld quality LCR Meters should consider this DIY to BNC Adapter, doesn't cost much and is easy to make. One could place the BNCs on a plate or L bracket to hold in place at the proper spacing for easier use, something on our to do list. It expands the handheld LCR Meter use especially with SMD components (with proper fixtures) and should yield more repeatable results.

Best
« Last Edit: October 19, 2024, 05:57:46 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2024, 03:59:16 pm »
BNC sockets for the FE-500 look really useful.

The East Tester 3501 is on AliXpress at around $900 , so the TH2830 looks like better value, and I see Mawyatt has written some software to generate curves on a pc from the 2830.

Question is, when are those enhancements, or the 34 frequencies of the 2830 over the 6 of the old Agilent unit, likely to prove useful?

 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2024, 04:26:17 pm »
BNC sockets for the FE-500 look really useful.

The East Tester 3501 is on AliXpress at around $900 , so the TH2830 looks like better value, and I see Mawyatt has written some software to generate curves on a pc from the 2830.

Question is, when are those enhancements, or the 34 frequencies of the 2830 over the 6 of the old Agilent unit, likely to prove useful?

Our TH2830 has increments of at least 1Hz from 50Hz to 100KHz, well even better see below :-+

Best
« Last Edit: October 24, 2024, 04:43:07 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2024, 05:09:13 pm »
The accuracy and reliability of the TH2830 is excellent. Mine was improved to ST2832, and it was excellent across the board. The newer SourceTronic firmware had some improvements for both models including the frequency stepping across the board instead of a few fixed frequencies that it was limited to previously.

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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2024, 04:27:11 am »
@KungFuJosh
Quote
Mine was improved to ST2832

Were you able to load the ST2832 software onto the TH2830?

Ok so my question is... in practise, accurately characterising devices, parasitics and matching - the graphs are very nice but will the extra functionality let me do, or do more quickly/easily, things which the Agilent - 0.1% accuracy, 6 frequencies to 100kHz, and a number of different device models - cannot?
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2024, 12:04:39 pm »
@KungFuJosh
Quote
Mine was improved to ST2832

Were you able to load the ST2832 software onto the TH2830?

Ok so my question is... in practise, accurately characterising devices, parasitics and matching - the graphs are very nice but will the extra functionality let me do, or do more quickly/easily, things which the Agilent - 0.1% accuracy, 6 frequencies to 100kHz, and a number of different device models - cannot?

Yes, there's a thread dedicated to it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/th2830-vs-th2832/msg5275423/#msg5275423

The better meters are 0.05% to 0.08% general accuracy. Whether or not you need better accuracy or more test frequencies is a question only you can answer.
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Online Martin72

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2024, 02:08:01 pm »
The newer SourceTronic firmware had some improvements for both models including the frequency stepping across the board instead of a few fixed frequencies that it was limited to previously.

I find that very useful.
Then the sweep function of the ST4.0 software also makes more sense...
https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/st-meter-4-0.html
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2024, 02:15:02 pm »
The newer SourceTronic firmware had some improvements for both models including the frequency stepping across the board instead of a few fixed frequencies that it was limited to previously.

I find that very useful.
Then the sweep function of the ST4.0 software also makes more sense...
https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/st-meter-4-0.html

As do I. I certainly like being able to sweep frequencies too. 😉
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2024, 02:27:02 pm »
@KungFuJosh
Quote
Mine was improved to ST2832

Were you able to load the ST2832 software onto the TH2830?

Ok so my question is... in practise, accurately characterising devices, parasitics and matching - the graphs are very nice but will the extra functionality let me do, or do more quickly/easily, things which the Agilent - 0.1% accuracy, 6 frequencies to 100kHz, and a number of different device models - cannot?

Yes, there's a thread dedicated to it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/th2830-vs-th2832/msg5275423/#msg5275423

The better meters are 0.05% to 0.08% general accuracy. Whether or not you need better accuracy or more test frequencies is a question only you can answer.

This Graph is a good reference for folks to understand the limits of measurements with these LCR Meters, including Lab Bench, Handheld and Tweezer types.

Note Limits shown with this are Impedance levels of 10mΩ to 100MΩ which relates to component values of 10mΩ Resistance, 10nH Inductance and 10fF Capacitance ranges.

Please note that this graph has an error in the upper right corner, the 10pF as shown should be 10fF.

Anyway, good stuff for those interested in accurate repeatable LCR measurements and what different types of instruments can deliver with proper technique fixtures and such :-+

Best
« Last Edit: October 25, 2024, 03:22:32 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2024, 02:34:06 pm »
As do I. I certainly like being able to sweep frequencies too. 😉

Nice display with your Hioki :-+

Best
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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2024, 01:52:51 pm »
Thanks for all the advice and help  :-+ :-+. I've decided to go for the TH2830, which I'm getting for just over $560 from Taobao (via AliPay and Superbuy) plus shipping, which will be shared with some other items, plus Vat when they arrive.

It seems to come with enough accessories but as I'm shopping in China, I wonder if anyone can recommend any Chinese brands of Kelvin cables, SMD tweezers etc? I need a couple of sets for multimeters, and have tried some unsatisfactory leads before which I replaced with Keysight.

Any other accessories I should think about?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2024, 01:18:12 am by Giallograle »
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2024, 02:05:00 pm »
What do you use your LRC meters for? We have one in the office, Keysight U1733C or something from that linup, but its only used once in a blue moon. I'm trying to justify one for the home lab, but I just don't see myself using it.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2024, 06:06:02 pm »
What do you use your LRC meters for? We have one in the office, Keysight U1733C or something from that linup, but its only used once in a blue moon. I'm trying to justify one for the home lab, but I just don't see myself using it.

Everybody has different needs. If you don't need it, maybe that's the answer.

Personally, I use LCR meters all the time for different work (mostly related to audio/guitar stuff).

I would suggest getting the Shannon ST42 tweezers as your first LCR. It should cover most of your needs, for a good price and performance. I use the ST42 to verify component values for most things (anything that fits easy enough, or is within range) before installing anything.

Thanks,
Josh
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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2024, 02:32:44 am »
Thinking about SMD tweezers or a fixture, I saw some discussions of pricy ST/Tonghui fixtures versus cheaper ones, and some modifications.

Tonghui have two versions of the tweezers both TH26009, black (cheaper) and white (more expensive). Struggling to find much about them on Tonghui's site.

Can you suggest any other good value brands suitable for use with the TH2830, so a couple of hundred kHz, rather than pushing the limits?

 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2024, 02:48:40 am »
Thinking about SMD tweezers or a fixture, I saw some discussions of pricy ST/Tonghui fixtures versus cheaper ones, and some modifications.

Tonghui have two versions of the tweezers both TH26009, black (cheaper) and white (more expensive). Struggling to find much about them on Tonghui's site.

Can you suggest any other good value brands suitable for use with the TH2830, so a couple of hundred kHz, rather than pushing the limits?

None of them are super fantastic, but the model numbers are not the same. The better ones (which are much better), are the TH26009. The crappier model is the TH26029.

The TH26009 is okay for the price. If you want something better, you'll have to pay a LOT more. You can find the TH26009 for under $200, but verify that it's the correct model.

Thanks,
Josh
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