Author Topic: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter  (Read 5199 times)

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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2024, 08:32:53 am »
Got it thanks Josh, getting info from Tonghui's site is like pulling teeth so the following took an inordinate time...

There don't seem to be any good alternatives to Tonghui test leads, so:
  • TH26029B SMD Kelvin tweezers (white, box with 2 locking BNC connectors) 5Hz-100KHz, around $40 here
  • TH26009B SMD Kelvin tweezers (black, box with 4 locking BNC connectors) DC-15MHz, around $95
  • TH26008A SMD test fixture (box with 4 locking BNC connectors) DC-120MHz, around $140

Wondering whether the cheap tweezers are good enough for my purposes, audio frequencies, measurements down to pF; not critical at that level but it's approaching the meter's limits? I'd appreciate reliability, repeatability and accuracy in measurements, so if the 26009 is more suitable I'll go with that.

Test fixture is probably too good for the 2830/32, and me!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 08:40:01 am by Giallograle »
 

Offline Traceless

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2024, 10:39:48 am »
The 2830 looks like a good machine; but it's pushing my budget.

Is there anything I've missed or should consider?

Hi Giallograle,

since the meter has not been mentioned you might like to take a look at the Matrix MCR-5200 as option. It measures up to 200kHz, can be programmed and is avilable new for ~650-750€ for instance at eleshop or digikey. The meter supports a fixed set of measurement frequencies (40Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, 150Hz, 200Hz, 250Hz, 300Hz, 400Hz, 500Hz, 600Hz, 800Hz, 1kHz, 1.2kHz, 1.5kHz, 2kHz, 2.5kHz, 3kHz, 4kHz, 5kHz, 6kHz, 7.5kHz, 10kHz, 12kHz, 15kHz, 20kHz, 25kHz, 30kHz, 40kHz, 50kHz, 60kHz, 75kHz, 100kHz, 120kHz, 150kHz, 200kHz). There is also a Matrix 6000 Series with contiguous frequency support or the big Brother MCR-8500 which measures up to 5MHz but is considerably more expensive (around 4500€)

Cheers Traceless
« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 10:45:39 am by Traceless »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2024, 03:34:39 pm »
Got it thanks Josh, getting info from Tonghui's site is like pulling teeth so the following took an inordinate time...

There don't seem to be any good alternatives to Tonghui test leads, so:
  • TH26029B SMD Kelvin tweezers (white, box with 2 locking BNC connectors) 5Hz-100KHz, around $40 here
  • TH26009B SMD Kelvin tweezers (black, box with 4 locking BNC connectors) DC-15MHz, around $95
  • TH26008A SMD test fixture (box with 4 locking BNC connectors) DC-120MHz, around $140

Wondering whether the cheap tweezers are good enough for my purposes, audio frequencies, measurements down to pF; not critical at that level but it's approaching the meter's limits? I'd appreciate reliability, repeatability and accuracy in measurements, so if the 26009 is more suitable I'll go with that.

Test fixture is probably too good for the 2830/32, and me!

The TH26029B is a toy without good shielding.

Did you mean $195 for the TH26009B? If you can get them for $95, get me one too. 😉

Look at the Shannon ST42 LCR tweezers. They max at 10kHz, but that's plenty for audio. I use them more often than my IM3570, but I wouldn't part with either. When I still had the ST2832, it was the same story. ST42 for a lot of stuff, and then the ST2832 for anything beyond it. Or I used the THT fixture on the 2832 to quick test THT stuff faster than using the tweezers.
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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2024, 02:23:58 am »
@KungFuJosh Yes, that's $95, around retail price here, plus I'll have to pay (expected) 7% Vat on import here. So I can order you a set and post them - looks like it may be around $17 tracked. 

Actually I think I can get them for a little less today, it's the last day of the Chinese 11/11 sales, so they'd come in at a shade over $100 delivered.

This is coming from Taobao (China), to Superbuy who check it looks like what it's supposed to be, consolidate it with a bunch of other stuff and ship it to me in Thailand.

PM me early today if that's of interest. And anyone else who's contributed to this thread.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 07:11:49 am by Giallograle »
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2024, 01:26:35 pm »
What do you use your LRC meters for? We have one in the office, Keysight U1733C or something from that linup, but its only used once in a blue moon. I'm trying to justify one for the home lab, but I just don't see myself using it.

Everybody has different needs. If you don't need it, maybe that's the answer.

Personally, I use LCR meters all the time for different work (mostly related to audio/guitar stuff).

I would suggest getting the Shannon ST42 tweezers as your first LCR. It should cover most of your needs, for a good price and performance. I use the ST42 to verify component values for most things (anything that fits easy enough, or is within range) before installing anything.

Thanks,
Josh
I was just wondering if anyone is doing something like measuring ultrasonic transducers, component development or some physical measurements. I don't find them particularly interesting for component measurements, because all the components I use have to have their characteristics defined by datasheet.
And when I pick it up it's to measure a cable inductance or some other parameters that are undefined.
I understand why you would need it for component development.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2024, 05:43:03 pm »
I was just wondering if anyone is doing something like measuring ultrasonic transducers, component development or some physical measurements. I don't find them particularly interesting for component measurements, because all the components I use have to have their characteristics defined by datasheet.
And when I pick it up it's to measure a cable inductance or some other parameters that are undefined.
I understand why you would need it for component development.

I like to confirm what's on those datasheets, but IIRC, you're working on too large a scale to spend time on that, right?
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2024, 07:39:53 pm »
I was just wondering if anyone is doing something like measuring ultrasonic transducers, component development or some physical measurements. I don't find them particularly interesting for component measurements, because all the components I use have to have their characteristics defined by datasheet.
And when I pick it up it's to measure a cable inductance or some other parameters that are undefined.
I understand why you would need it for component development.

I like to confirm what's on those datasheets, but IIRC, you're working on too large a scale to spend time on that, right?
Not really because of that. I buy most passives from Europe, from reliable suppliers. For that ATEX certification (Hazloc is the US equivalent), we need full traceability for the parts. And the design needs to be safe and work with worst case conditions that are defined in the datasheet, or the de-rating is defined in standards. I cannot even have too much inductance and capacitance to begin with.
 
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2024, 08:43:12 pm »
@KungFuJosh Yes, that's $95, around retail price here, plus I'll have to pay (expected) 7% Vat on import here. So I can order you a set and post them - looks like it may be around $17 tracked. 

Actually I think I can get them for a little less today, it's the last day of the Chinese 11/11 sales, so they'd come in at a shade over $100 delivered.

This is coming from China, to Superbuy who check it looks like what it's supposed to be, consolidate it with a bunch of other stuff and ship it to me in Thailand.

PM me early today if that's of interest. And anyone else who's contributed to this thread.

Be certain these are actual Tonghui TH26009B Tweezers, there are some "clones" around that look the same and may even say Tonghui with Logo. Same goes for some other Tonghui LCR Fixtures, there are a number of fakes out there.

Also Tonghui told us a few years ago, they don't authorize any AliX sellers and we should only buy from Authorized Dealers otherwise they will not honor any warranty claims.

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2024, 09:23:45 pm »
Not really because of that. I buy most passives from Europe, from reliable suppliers. For that ATEX certification (Hazloc is the US equivalent), we need full traceability for the parts. And the design needs to be safe and work with worst case conditions that are defined in the datasheet, or the de-rating is defined in standards. I cannot even have too much inductance and capacitance to begin with.

I suppose if you're reading every datasheet for every part, that helps. I buy only from reputable sources, but sometimes they have errors on their websites. Like when Mouser said a 10nH inductor was 100uH. Testing the part with an LCR showed me the problem.

Had I also read the datasheet with the part number, I would have found that out instead of trusting their website values to be correct for basic info. To me, that's annoying because those datasheets are usually for 50 parts each, and you have to search for the specific model number through the list...and then I'd still verify with an LCR. 😉
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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2024, 07:51:45 am »
@mawyatt I should have clarified, this is from Taobao China, where most of the Chinese manufacturers have shops, for delivery in China.

You can get the TH26009B SMD tweezers from Tonghui or most other electronics shops at these prices. I got a small saving by shopping around and virtue of the 11/11 sale.

ETA www.tw-eta.com who make a wide variety of test leads offer SMD tweezers ETA2206E (1MHz, $55) and an SMD test fixture ETA2217 (30MHz, $70) similar to the TH26008A. ETA emailed to say they aren't as capable as Tonghui's versions so I ordered the ETA2217 SMD test fitting, along with a few other bits and pieces from ETA, and the TH26009B SMD tweezers.

Btw I also found Tonghui's 'Handheld bridge test lead' TH26027AS Kelvin clips with a plug to fit the DER-5000; not expensive and easier than making one.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 10:16:30 am by Giallograle »
 


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