Author Topic: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter  (Read 4401 times)

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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« on: October 11, 2024, 11:47:19 am »
Hi All,

My DER DE-5000 has been invaluable for measuring capacitors, inductors and transformers for audio, up to 100kHz. Drawbacks are mainly that it doesn't have an easy way to attach standard 4-wire probes, and readings can be a bit sensitive to the connections from its probes.

I'm thinking about getting a benchtop unit to improve accuracy and ease of use. USB or GPIB would be nice. Recommendations here suggest brands including HP/Agilent, Tonghui (also available as SourceTronic and SalukiTec), Hioki and GW Instek. The latter two are better, and more expensive, than I need.

Older HP units have the benefits of their original build quality, available documentation and serviceability in case of problems.
  • The HP 4263A is the least expensive, and readily available used at under $300. 5-digits, 0.1% accuracy and 6 frequencies from 100Hz to 100kHz.
  • The HP 4263B has a better 2 line screen, can be hacked to measure transformers, but is a less widely available and costs around $600.

The recently discontinued Tonghui TH2830 has a good spec and is just under $700 (SourceTronic list the ST2830 at around $1,300 in UK). The TH2817B is available for a similar price.

The discontinued GW Instek LCR-819 is available for $700, but pretty much only in the US so shipping would be prohibitive and specs seem slightly behind the TH2830.

The 2830 looks like a good machine; but it's pushing my budget. Whilst I'd like the better screen and transformer measurements, the 4263B costs nearly as much as the 2830. The 4263A looks like the sensible choice, but I'm still tempted by the TH2830.

Is there a benefit in having more frequencies within the test range rather than four or five?

Is there anything I've missed or should consider? What do you think, preferably from experience?

TIA
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2024, 11:58:29 am »
why not simply make a good probe for your de5000 ? buy a ready made probe for L C or R components, and adapt it to the de5000 ?
 
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Offline kripton2035

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2024, 01:37:48 pm »
something like this :

 

Offline manganin

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2024, 02:37:10 pm »

How about the good old HP 4274A?

Built like a tank and the user interface is very good. Holds calibration forever, mine was last adjusted over 20 years ago and when checked last year, well within one year specs.

Still sought after, so it can take some time to find a reasonably priced one.

 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2024, 05:12:44 pm »
you have the one from kungfujosh  in the sale thread

Hioki 3532-50 LCR Meter   ....     new screen and touch  ...  who could be a deal,  but sadly in Usa .... shippping  could be pricey

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fsft-hioki-3532-50-lcr-meter-42-hz-to-5-mhz-w-new-lcd-and-touch-panel/msg5659895/#msg5659895
 
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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2024, 05:46:25 pm »
If OP wants to PM me a mailing address, I can get a shipping quote. GlobalPost is reasonable, but not as fast as expensive DHL.
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2024, 10:50:04 pm »
If you don't need higher frequencies, the SourceTronic ST2830 is a good choice too.
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2024, 09:17:09 pm »
One thing the OP should consider is the Tonghui TH2830 (ST2830) comes with quality Kelvin Clips, Leaded Fixture with Calibration Blade Short, these are worth over $130 alone. These aren't the cheap "Equivalents" you see, seems R&S also rebadges these.

We have the TH2830 and Hioki IM3536, the TH2830 is quite good but limited frequency range (100KHz), that's why we have the Hioki (8MHz). Also have the DER-5000 for a handheld.

Check out our various posts/threads on these bench LCR meters.

Best,
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 
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Offline GiallograleTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2024, 12:23:38 pm »
Thanks everybody!

I did think about adding some leads to the DE-5000; but it works ok for individual components with it's own limited kelvin leads, so I decided to stick with it as is and add a benchtop meter.

I had a look at KungFuJosh's Hioki 3532-50 - it's a very nice piece of kit, but $1,600 is out of the league of my current bench and requirements!

The HP 4274A is indeed built like a tank - 18kg! - however it's rarer and a lot more expensive than the HP 4263A/B and I don't think it offers more functionality.

Looks like it's either the TH2830 - $700 with the accessories assuming they're decent quality, and good reviews apart from support - or the HP 4263A - plus $130 for accessories, say $430ish - is the bargain. If they'll both do the same job, and I'm quite happy with older but solid kit for my hobby, are there any advantages, other than newness, to the TH2830?
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2024, 02:40:47 pm »
the de-5000 is good if you are careful about charged caps ... poof    and you do the open close calibration ...

 :-+

sure they are 2 ic`s solution like some other brands, Mastech, unit-t ...
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2024, 03:19:38 pm »
Looks like it's either the TH2830 - $700 with the accessories assuming they're decent quality, and good reviews apart from support - or the HP 4263A - plus $130 for accessories, say $430ish - is the bargain. If they'll both do the same job, and I'm quite happy with older but solid kit for my hobby, are there any advantages, other than newness, to the TH2830?

Where can you find a TH2830 for $700? We paid over $800 for ours new a couple years ago!

Edit: BTW we were told directly from Tonghui, they do not authorize any AliX sites. So getting any warranty service for a non-authorized site purchase might be risky.

As we mentioned TH2830 comes with the quality Kelvin Clips (not cheap stuff you see everywhere), Fixture for Leaded Devices and Short Cal Blade. We routinely compare with our newer Hioki IM3536 (also purchased new) and the TH2830 is spot on for both low (milliΩ) and high (pF) Z components.

Like the form factor too, it's same as Keysight 34465A DMM, doesn't take up much bench space.

Here's a few links wrt TH2830 you might interesting.

Best,

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lcr-meter-plot-software/msg4774100/#msg4774100

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/lcr-lab-grade-parameter-plotting-fixture/msg5536543/#msg5536543

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sensitive-lcr-meter-measurements/msg5598337/#msg5598337

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/bias-network-for-lcr-meter/msg5206647/#msg5206647

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/ceramic-capacitor-behavior/msg5536403/#msg5536403
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 03:46:12 pm by mawyatt »
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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2024, 04:10:59 pm »
You're missing an important thread for the TH2830: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/th2830-vs-th2832/ 😉😉

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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2024, 06:20:52 pm »
Just out of curiosity since we had the TH2830 powered up for something else, we grabbed a 1pF +-0.1pF Ultra-Stable NP0/C0G High Q Microwave 0805 Capacitor from PPI, and turned on the IM3536.

TH2830 @ 100KHz  1.01622pF
IM3536 @ 100KHz  1.0132pF

That's within 0.003pF :-+

Best,
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2024, 08:02:54 pm »
Quote
Where can you find a TH2830 for $700? We paid over $800 for ours new a couple years ago!
I can only dream of that here.
Oh, I was just going to post the price for the TH2830 from Batterfly...
https://www.batterfly.com/shop/de/tonghui-th2830-lcr-meter

Discontinued... :scared:




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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2024, 11:42:36 pm »
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2024, 04:36:31 pm »
But probably not for much longer.
Tonghui has released a whole bunch of new devices to counter this.

https://www.tonghui.com.cn/en/product_list2_9.html
"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Offline EE4all

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2024, 04:50:30 pm »
There are also good used Fluke LCR options.
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2024, 04:52:18 pm »
We'll trade for the TH2851-130 thank you :-+

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 
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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2024, 05:01:10 pm »
We'll trade for the TH2851-130 thank you :-+

I bet a dollar it's the same hw as the 50MHz version. 😉

ETA: lots of nice specs though. HDMI out and ethernet too.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2024, 05:03:40 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2024, 05:03:18 pm »
Looks damn nice...
"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Online Sorama

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2024, 06:33:35 pm »
It looks damn…expensive!
 
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Online egonotto

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2024, 08:37:43 pm »
Hello,

about 4000 €/kg

Best regards
egonotto
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2024, 08:38:25 pm »
 :-DD :-+
"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2024, 09:30:39 pm »
It's a Windows based machine. Looks interesting, but I think your price per kg estimate might be low:



Currently a bargain for $73k on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com//dp/B09ZB7GQ38

Two please!

Thanks,
Josh
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Online egonotto

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Re: Upgrade from a DER DE-5000 LCR meter
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2024, 10:17:14 pm »
Hello,

I have the price from www.directindustry.de.

Best regards
egonotto
 


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