Upgraded SDG1000X Plus AWG's

[RBBVNL9]

In the attached ZIP you will find both TXT and CSV files for PRBS3 thru PRBS17 as produced by the Siglent SDG1000X Plus (current firmware; 1.01.01.33R8 1P.01.01.01.42R2, Release Date 30/8/2024). There is also an Excel spreadsheet, but it only contains PRBS3 thru PRBS15 - longer sequences do not fit in that format ;-)

These sequences can be used to test hypotheses about how they were generated :-)

I did this as carefully as I could and think no errors are present, but it was fairly late last night, and I still want to double-check one day by capturing once more.

I later still want to add PRBS-18. Longer codes are not possible to sample with my current setup: I sample with an R&R RTB oscilloscope using the clocked parallel bus decoder and the transfer via SCPI. the maximum number of values I can capture that way is 600,000. We need to capture slightly over two full sequences (to be sure one is entirely present from the 1111… seed up to the end), and preferably like 4 or 5 sequences (to do robustness checks). So, there are limits as to the maximum sequence length that can be acquired this way.

Best, Rudi

[tautech]

In the attached ZIP you will find both TXT and CSV files for PRBS3 thru PRBS17 as produced by the Siglent SDG1000X Plus (current firmware; 1.01.01.33R8). There is also an Excel spreadsheet, but it only contains PRBS3 thru PRBS15 - longer sequences do not fit in that format ;-)

These sequences can be used to test hypotheses about how they were generated :-)

I did this as carefully as I could and think no errors are present, but it was fairly late last night, and I still want to double-check one day by capturing once more.

I later still want to add PRBS-18. Longer codes are not possible to sample with my current setup: I sample with an R&R RTB oscilloscope using the clocked parallel bus decoder and the transfer via SCPI. the maximum number of values I can capture that way is 600,000. We need to capture slightly over two full sequences (to be sure one is entirely present from the 1111… seed up to the end), and preferably like 4 or 5 sequences (to do robustness checks). So, there are limits as to the maximum sequence length that can be acquired this way.

Best, Rudi

Please note the newer firmware shipped in the units just received:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG1000X_Plus_P42R2_EN.zip

Tell us, when did your son get this unit and what supplier sold it without being updated to the latest FW version ?
Note the release date: 2024-12-06

[newbrain]

Please note the newer firmware shipped in the units just received:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG1000X_Plus_P42R2_EN.zip

Just to make it clear, my tests were done with the latest FW, which was is the one my unit (from Eleshop ) came with.

[RBBVNL9]

My tests and data capturing were done with the latest SDG1000X Plus firmware (1P.01.01.01.42R2, Release Date 30/8/2024).

That's the same version Tautech shared today.

My apologies that I accidentally mentioned the wrong firmware version this morning (1.01.01.33R8), which does not even exist for the SDG1000X Plus, but is the latest firmware for its predecessor, the SDG1000X. Will correct it in my earlier post.

Best, Rudi

[blackdog]

Hi,

I received my SDG1062X-Plus around December 15, 2024 and it was delivered by Eleshop Netherlands.

My firmware is now P42R2 and in guess this is the firmware the generator was delivered with.
I do not remember changing the firmware, I was quite busy in December... 

Kind regards,
Bram

[mawyatt]

Opamps are ADA4937-1 (differential transimpedance amp) LMH6702 (low level driver) and THS3491 (high level driver). DAC most likely is an AD9122.
Offset voltage driver not identified, S/H opamps for generation of internal control voltages are TLC272 (or equivalent).

Would be interesting to compare the chip signal line up with the new 1000 series, the 4000 and 6000 series!!

Best

[RAPo]

This whole thread made me buy a SDG1062X+ (yes, I'll know a Rigol fanboy converting or at least eating it both ways) to Siglent.
The purchase was made at Batronix last week and was delivered with firmware V1P.1.1.1.42R2.

Hi,

I received my SDG1062X-Plus around December 15, 2024 and it was delivered by Eleshop Netherlands.

My firmware is now P42R2 and in guess this is the firmware the generator was delivered with.
I do not remember changing the firmware, I was quite busy in December... 

Kind regards,
Bram

[sfs1]

DAC most likely is an AD9122.

It is

[RBBVNL9]

To test a bit of how PRBS patterns look like for different polynomials, I created an Excel spreadsheet that can create patterns from PN3, PN4,..., PN16 using any polynomial.

Feel free to play around... Just enter the code length and the two or four polynomials you want to use, and there you go.
I also included the common polynomial sets as examples (like those found in ITU Rec. O.150)
And you can also easily copy any of your own patterns into the sheet and check whether they correspond to generated patterns.

And ... let me know should you encounter any mistakes or so...

Generate PN3 to PN16 pattern for any polynomial v09 .xlsx

Update: PS There is a small error in above spreadsheet: it shows one pattern a bit too much. To correct that, put "=2^B4-1" in cell B10. When I was trying to make it look better and easier to use, I made a mistake....

[tautech]

Tautech (on YouTube):

We have requested Siglent have screenshots go directly to a USB stick (when inserted) by default. Hoping this change will come about in a new firmware.

I do hope so. For this video alone, I made some 50 screenshots (got them on my computer), involving 16*50=800 clicks or wheel turns on the three SDGs 

Confirmation that USB screenshot handling is to be improved.
A couple of changes are coming but most notable is when a USB stick is inserted it becomes the default screenshot save path.

Unknown release date. 

[RBBVNL9]

[ Specified attachment is not available ] [ Specified attachment is not available ] [ Specified attachment is not available ]NEWBRAIN:

NOTE: I did not check that the full sequence matched the reversed polynomial, just that the first zero runs matched the expectations.

Using the Excel spreadsheet I shared yesterday, I now checked out polynomials that conform to the pattern observed at the output of the SDG1000X Plus.

In most cases, the working hypothesis by NEWBRAIN (“taps 2 and further are in reverse order”) holds. But, as NEWBRAIN already noted, this is not the case for NP7, and I now show that NP12, NP13 and NP14 are also different. Interestingly, NP7, one of the four-polynomial codes, does follow the working hypothesis.

Whatever the exact reason, I think there is now little doubt that there is SOME programming mistake in the SDG1000X Plus. And perhaps also in the SDG6000X and possibly other models.

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

PS There is a small error in yesterday's spreadsheet: it shows one pattern a bit too much. To correct that, put "=2^B4-1" in cell B10. When I was trying to make it look better and easier to use, I made a mistake....

[tautech]

Webserver remote control functionality.
A series of screenshots exploring operation without the front panel controls and with a PC mouse finds this mode of control quite intuitive.

Basic functionality overview.
 

Firstly, any Parameter changes are made by first bringing up the menu by clicking on Feq, Amp, Offset or Phase where the appropriate field is high-lit and can be changed with the PC keyboard and the desired units setting or click Cancel to return.


 

Clicking on the channel tab places most of the other front panel buttons in a menu as virtual buttons where we can access their menus.


Waveform Sweep, Burst and Modulation operations where we would have lit front panel button to press again to disable requires a slightly different approach in that we click on the channel tab again and click on the operation type again to disable it.


Selecting waveforms is as simple as clicking on the waveform shown in the menu and folders of all available then clicking on the waveform type we want.


Outputs
Clicking on Load gives us the option for HiZ or 50 Ohm output to match to our load needs where output levels are automatically adjusted for amplitude levels to match the expected load.




Managing output Off/On is as simple as clicking on either.

[newbrain]

Yup, TBH took me some time to discover all of those 'hidden' click targets, but once you know it's quite easy!

What I'd really like in a future FW revision is a way to tame the brightness of the LCD, that thing is fierce, especially at night.

[tautech]

What I'd really like in a future FW revision is a way to tame the brightness of the LCD, that thing is fierce, especially at night.

Just boxed this one up for the morning mail....
Do we have a Display menu or anywhere this might be best added/implemented ?

Somewhere in the System menus I guess.....
Will get SDG6022X out and investigate......but then the HW has to support it.

[RBBVNL9]

Unfortunately, the webserver is not at all dealt with in the manual (except that you can set a password for it…)

I agree it is fairly intuitive– and very much like the webserver in my SDS2000X Plus oscilloscope. (But see below for some differences.)

The only function I could not find so far is making a screenprint on the device itself (which is normally a long push on the Store Recall button). But since you can now make screenprints to the computer itself, this is not really much of a limitation. And in the web app, then using the “UI Style ‘Normal’), the screenprints have the correct color (i.e., the same color as shown on the screen). So not like the wrong colors when you make a screenprint on the device itself to its internal memory. 

As can already be seen in Tautech’s message, there is this extra menu line (with items ‘Sweep, Burst,’ etc.) that was not present before that allows access to the physical buttons of the device that are not replicated on the screen interface.  By default, the channel tab says “BSWV”, which is not explained anywhere but may mean something like “Basic Wave’ (i.e., a wave that is not modulated, swept, or ‘bursted’).

To get to the utility menu, you also need to click this “BSWV” or “MOD” or whatever; it’s not very elegant, but well, it works….

Improvements that I would appreciate are:

• That computer alphanumeric keyboard input (as well as backspace key etc.) would be accepted when creating filenames, renaming, etc. This is very awkward via the screen interface! Funny enough, the number keys [0-9], as well as the left and right arrows, do work (!). You can even use the ‘up’ and ‘down’ keys to toggle letters on the screen, but there seems to be no way to select these after toggling. Not being able to use the computer keyboard effectively is a missed change  - over time, my SDGs accumulated many files, and it would be great to clean up once in a while.
• • Connecting a USB keyboard to the SDG directly does not work either. I see it getting power (caps lock light goes on, etc.), but keystrokes are not recognized by the SDG. Too bad.
• When entering values into numeric fields, the <enter> key is disabled. Would be great if hitting enter would just allow you to input the value (in the default unit setting at the bottom of the screen).   
  
• • Going to Utilities > Test/Cal > Selftest > KeyTest, you can check the (rather straightforward) routing from the computer keyboard to the SDG front panel keys).
• • From the above test, we can see that a push of the rotary key is, in fact, not mapped to anything on the computer keyboard (the logical candidate would have been the <enter> key. Having that said, it would not have solved much, as the push of the rotary key does almost nothing on the physical device either; you cannot confirm values or choices; it just seems to work in very rare instances, like recapping a file name. I would like that rotary push to be used much more effectively throughout the device!
• Clicking on the ON word in “*CH1:Sine.ON” turns that channel on. I know you can turn it on via the same word at the lower right button, but I intuitively started on the “ON” at the top.
• The clock source icon, phase mode prompt icon, and LAN icon would bring you to these three menus, respectively. (They do so in the SDS webserver.) Or at least to the Utility menu, where these things can be set.
• Clicking ‘Output’ toggles between the two values (ON/OFF). But clicking “Load’ just above it brings you to a menu with only two items (but does not toggle and requires more clicks). Would be nice to have that consistent.
• As noted, the SDG1X+ web interface is in many respects similar to the one of the SDS2kX+. But the latter one has useful additional extra buttons under the simulated screen (like “Waveform(.bin) Save” and  “Waveform(.csv) Save”. It would be great if the SDG offered similar things, like directly uploading an ABR waveform! 

[tautech]

..............
The only function I could not find so far is making a screenprint on the device itself (which is normally a long push on the Store Recall button). But since you can now make screenprints to the computer itself, this is not really much of a limitation.

Some changes are coming to how screenshots are to work on the device.
We'll know more when the new FW arrives.


WRT other comments, SDG1000X Plus is the first low cost Siglent AWG to offer a webserver and unlike several of the other model (2kX, 6kX) does not have a touch UI but I've sure these more upmarket touch display models don't support keyboards or mice or offer a webserver.

[Martin72]

Somewhere in the System menus I guess.....
Will get SDG6022X out and investigate......but then the HW has to support it.

I searched the system settings on my SDG6022X and didn't find anything related to display settings.

[2N3055]

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) NEWBRAIN:

NOTE: I did not check that the full sequence matched the reversed polynomial, just that the first zero runs matched the expectations.

Using the Excel spreadsheet I shared yesterday, I now checked out polynomials that conform to the pattern observed at the output of the SDG1000X Plus.

In most cases, the working hypothesis by NEWBRAIN (“taps 2 and further are in reverse order”) holds. But, as NEWBRAIN already noted, this is not the case for NP7, and I now show that NP12, NP13 and NP14 are also different. Interestingly, NP7, one of the four-polynomial codes, does follow the working hypothesis.

Whatever the exact reason, I think there is now little doubt that there is SOME programming mistake in the SDG1000X Plus. And perhaps also in the SDG6000X and possibly other models.

(Attachment Link)

PS There is a small error in yesterday's spreadsheet: it shows one pattern a bit too much. To correct that, put "=2^B4-1" in cell B10. When I was trying to make it look better and easier to use, I made a mistake....

Rudi, Newbrain,

I got word back.
In attachment is the list of polynomials that are implemented. It confirms the findings by you guys.
It is not a programming mistake, why was it chosen to implement those exactly, I am unclear on that...
I got confirmation that Siglent recognizes that it would be nice to use ITU recommended sequences for the sake of de facto standardization and playing nice with others.
They said they will implement those, but noted they cannot in this moment promise exactly when that will happen .
It will go into pipeline and will be integrated into they existing FW release cycle.

Best,

Siniša

[newbrain]

Thanks a lot for reporting back!

Well, there goes my hypothesis.
It would in fact have been a bit too egregious as a bug, but it was worth a shot.
The choice of polynomials is a bit baffling, why pick those instead of using a well known list?

I've used PRBS professionally - not a lot - for a BER estimation self test in communication equipment; but TBH the probability I'm going to use them at home is slim to none (though you never know). It's been fun though, and an opportunity to familiarize with my new AWG (really happy about it, ATM).

[RBBVNL9]

Dear 2N3055,

Thank you for this feedback. It is interesting to learn that Siglent intentionally chose these polynomials. I really started to think this had to be a programming mistake, thinking that one would not deviate in a way that breaks compatibility with others without (explaining) clear value in doing so. But apparently, I was wrong.

Knowing this, I would be interested to learn whether the SDG6000X, as well as the SNA5000A, SNA6000A, and SHN900A, have the same implantation as the SDG1000X Plus, or whether these (all) use the more regular ITU polynomials. And especially the SDG7000A, as this instrument is more likely to be used by telecom engineers.

In any case, looking forward to a firmware update that would implement the more regular PRBS polynomials, but hopefully also other improvements suggested, such as:
-   Activating the sync out for PRBS (as it is for all other waveforms except noise and DC, for obvious reasons)
-   Reduce the startup time back to that of the 1000X and 2000X (it is currently twice as long)
-   Allowing all waveforms to use the differential out setting and, for ‘digital waveforms’ like squares, pulses, etc, the logic level settings
-   Better USB thumb drive compatibility (most of my modern USB thumb drives fail to work)
-   Saving screenshots directly to USB instead of internal memory
-   Solve the screenshot color problems in the UI style “Normal”
-   Bring back the better readable and larger font of the 1000X and 2000X

[KungFuJosh]

-   Better USB thumb drive compatibility (most of my modern USB thumb drives fail to work)

I'm curious if these work with it: https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-3-Pack-Ultra-Flash-3x32GB/dp/B09FFK1QLR/ (SanDisk SDCZ430-032G-A46)

I use those on all my test gear (32GB version), and it works with all my Siglent stuff too. Also worked on my ST2832 when I still had it. 😉

Thanks,
Josh

[RAPo]

Agreed, but please *add* the polynomials, the current polynimials should also be there (maybe in a special menu).

Dear 2N3055,

Thank you for this feedback. It is interesting to learn that Siglent intentionally chose these polynomials. I really started to think this had to be a programming mistake, thinking that one would not deviate in a way that breaks compatibility with others without (explaining) clear value in doing so. But apparently, I was wrong.

Knowing this, I would be interested to learn whether the SDG6000X, as well as the SNA5000A, SNA6000A, and SHN900A, have the same implantation as the SDG1000X Plus, or whether these (all) use the more regular ITU polynomials. And especially the SDG7000A, as this instrument is more likely to be used by telecom engineers.

In any case, looking forward to a firmware update that would implement the more regular PRBS polynomials, but hopefully also other improvements suggested, such as:
-   Activating the sync out for PRBS (as it is for all other waveforms except noise and DC, for obvious reasons)
-   Reduce the startup time back to that of the 1000X and 2000X (it is currently twice as long)
-   Allowing all waveforms to use the differential out setting and, for ‘digital waveforms’ like squares, pulses, etc, the logic level settings
-   Better USB thumb drive compatibility (most of my modern USB thumb drives fail to work)
-   Saving screenshots directly to USB instead of internal memory
-   Solve the screenshot color problems in the UI style “Normal”
-   Bring back the better readable and larger font of the 1000X and 2000X

[RBBVNL9]

@ Josh:

I'm curious if these work with it: https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-3-Pack-Ultra-Flash-3x32GB/dp/B09FFK1QLR/ (SanDisk SDCZ430-032G-A46)

I use those on all my test gear (32GB version), and it works with all my Siglent stuff too. Also worked on my ST2832 when I still had it. 😉

Short answer: I have some of the same drives here that are the same or pretty similar (SanDisk Ultra Fit USB 3.2; SDCZ430-016G). They are nice because they hardly stick out a front panel. I just tried them on the SDG100X Plus, and yes, they work.

Long answer: The USB situation seems to be a bit erratic. Several modern (mostly USB-3) thumb drives refused to work with the RTB1k+ when I first got it - I got a double beep and a message ‘“USB device removed” when I inserted them. This includes drives from Samsung, Sandisk, and Lexar. I think also the above-mentioned SanDisk Ultra Fit refused to work earlier. But later, some of these drives did work again - but sometimes taking very long to be recognized. No idea why.

[KungFuJosh]

Short answer: I have some of the same drives here that are the same or pretty similar (SanDisk Ultra Fit USB 3.2; SDCZ430-016G). They are nice because they hardly stick out a front panel. I just tried them on the SDG100X Plus, and yes, they work.

Long answer: The USB situation seems to be a bit erratic. Several modern (mostly USB-3) thumb drives refused to work with the RTB1k+ when I first got it - I got a double beep and a message ‘“USB device removed” when I inserted them. This includes drives from Samsung, Sandisk, and Lexar. I think also the above-mentioned SanDisk Ultra Fit refused to work earlier. But later, some of these drives did work again - but sometimes taking very long to be recognized. No idea why.

When in doubt, always use the SDFormatter app to format the drives before trying them in TE. Manufacturers use some weird choice of limited hardware compatibility for USB drives, but I've never had an issue with those cute little Ultra Fit drives. Firmware updates on all devices, even Siglent recovery files on multiple devices using a 32GB drive, no problem.

Sometimes USB drive detection is very slow, depending on the firmware. That's probably why you had some issues.

Thanks,
Josh

[RBBVNL9]

Thanks, Josh.

I should indeed consider using SDformatter. Given its authoritative source.

Sometimes USB drive detection is very slow, depending on the firmware. That's probably why you had some issues.

I noted that for some usb drives the SDG was t-e-r-r-i-b-l-y slow in recognising them. But by ‘not working’ I meant the SDG after inserting showing a message ‘USB drive removed’ rather than ‘USB drive connected’.