Author Topic: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)  (Read 99146 times)

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Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #400 on: April 29, 2019, 09:17:18 pm »
Boards amplifier-attenuator are of the same exterior design for WP7300 and WP7200.
I do not even see the difference when adding the index "A":




But changing the software key "MBW" to "HBW" for WP7200 does not change it in WP7300, if you check the bandwidth.

This changes the bandwidth, but to a very small extent.
In this picture you can see the bandwidth change in WP7300A depending on the enabled options: "LBW"(blue), "MBW"(yellow) and "HBW"(green), denotes WP7100, WP7200 and WP7300 respectively:


Same for WP7200:


Here is the graphical overlay of the WP7300 and WP7200 frequency response while the HBW option is enabled in both:


Similarly, with the DSP turned off:


I took these screenshots 2 years ago.
As you can see, there is something else besides software bandwidth settings.
However, I have not yet verified the effect of the calibration data that is stored in the EEPROM chip in each of these amplifier boards (which are duplicated in the Calibration folder). I also see several trimmers on this board that can be explored.




Addition.

See what is contained in the EEPROM 24LC64 (Soic8) of the WP7300A entry boards (in one of the channels):
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 09:28:57 pm by Converter »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #401 on: April 30, 2019, 05:10:49 am »
Can someone say, the functionality of this part, that in the photo of the Mechatrommer's input amplifier (highlighted in red)? What are their characteristics?
In the second photo, a similar item from my oscilloscope.
some channels in my dda300 (ch1 and 2) using similar to your microstrip on subsrate add-on thing. channel 3 and 4 iirc using the coax cable type. so i guess no difference between them since they are mixed in one unit. even i think they are similar since same board number 901109-00. maybe some tuning in trimpot to increase the BW hack?

or maybe someone have modified this unit? i'm not sure, top metal cover have differing burnt color mark, and channel 3 (the broken one) is different T-shaped EMI metal enclosure, the rest are L-shaped. as shown on the other thread Dajmasta, he has all channels with L-shaped (i mean all consistent) EMI enclosure.

attached is the ch1 and ch2 clearly seen opened, 2nd photo is one of them, maybe you can compare closely if they are the same. btw, i wonder whats IC under the heatsink getting input from AFE and spits out several differential signals into the transmission/distribution board, ADC or DSP or FPGA or what?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 05:48:23 am by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #402 on: April 30, 2019, 06:08:35 am »
But changing the software key "MBW" to "VHBW" for WP7200 does not change it in WP7300, if you check the bandwidth.
"LBW"(blue), "MBW"(yellow) and "VHBW"(green), denotes WP7100, WP7200 and WP7300 respectively:
have you tried "HBW" and "HBWA" option? HBWA will change WM8500 to DDA5005, or without it, DDA5005 will turn into WM8500. "VHBW" will turn DDA5005 into DDA6000. but i will not responsible if you brick your scope, do at own risk.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #403 on: April 30, 2019, 01:29:24 pm »
have you tried "HBW" and "HBWA" option? HBWA will change WM8500 to DDA5005, or without it, DDA5005 will turn into WM8500. "VHBW" will turn DDA5005 into DDA6000. but i will not responsible if you brick your scope, do at own risk.
Quote
btw, i wonder whats IC under the heatsink getting input from AFE and spits out several differential signals into the transmission/distribution board, ADC or DSP or FPGA or what?

Yes, I have long tried all the available options BW. My conclusion, as I wrote already: higher-frequency software options can not significantly improve the bandwidth of the oscilloscope, and only make an inscription on the screen.
I think the bandwidth depends on the calibration coefficients DSP.

If I have time for this, I will try to replace the firmware in EEPROM 7200 with the one used in 7300 to evaluate how it will affect BW.

By the way, you didn’t see by chance what designation of this chip is under heatsink your DDA3000? In my WaveRunner 204Xi (2GHz) - is H390ACA5. The corner of the silicon crystal was damaged there and I started thinking about replacing, but surprisingly, it still works.
As you can see in WM8500 (DDA5005), this chip HFE640C is no different from WM8600 (SDA6000).
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 11:25:23 am by Converter »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #404 on: April 30, 2019, 04:28:29 pm »
By the way, you didn’t see by chance what designation of this chip is under heatsink your DDA3000? In my WaveRunner 204Xi (2GHz) - is H390ACA5. The corner of the silicon crystal was damaged there and I started thinking about replacing, but surprisingly, it still works.
As you can see in WM8500 (DDA5005), this chip HFE640C is no different from WM8600 (SDA6000).
yeah. in an attempt to repair the broken AFE, i managed to pull the heatsink away the "hard" way didnt know how the clipping mechanism, now i know ;D the label is D130AAA5, more like batch number than IC number, i dont think that number will be much helpfull to anything anyway i guess thats an unobtanium part. to clean any dust that can possibly cause the fault under the heat sink. but cleaning the IC doesnt fix anything. and since the fault got worst very nasty voltage offset even on largest V/div scale, i believe there is  dying component on there i just dont have the time to check everything i have other stuffs to do, i put the broken module to AUX IN, so all my 4 channels for now are working properly, except AUX IN :( so i'm out of 1 good AFE module if anyone got extra to sell i will be interested or... to exchange with say... original WP/WM front bezel? ::)
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #405 on: April 30, 2019, 05:19:58 pm »
Do you have a photo of this D130AAA5? I am primarily interested in the issue of opportunities for replacement in WaveRunner204.

Quote
and since the fault got worst very nasty voltage offset even on largest V/div scale, i believe there is  dying component
In these devices, as a rule, bad contacts in connections is the cause of the fault. Simply revise all connections, including the ADC module.

Quote
i put the broken module to AUX IN, so all my 4 channels for now are working properly, except AUX IN
I did it before. But this is a bad decision, because the trigger input module has a terrible non-linearity — overcompensation, you can see it when you connect fast front test generator of the picosecond range. Perhaps this can be corrected by replacing the EEPROM chip firmware. There is one file in the Calibration folder, which is responsible for this, but immediately after the reboot, it is replaced with data from the EEPROM chip, which again leads to overcompensation. If you set only reading in this file, then with compensation everything will be fine, but error messages will follow in the log.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 06:26:35 pm by Converter »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #406 on: April 30, 2019, 05:59:16 pm »
Do you have a photo of this D130AAA5? I am primarily interested in the issue of opportunities for replacement in WaveRunner204.
see attached. thanks for your suggestion on the repair..
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #407 on: April 30, 2019, 06:13:57 pm »
see attached. thanks for your suggestion on the repair..
Thanks for the photo. As I expected, it uses the same chip as in my WaveRunner 204Xi. And yes, this is the batch number, and the true designation of this chip is HFE 653.

By the way, my WaveRunner 204Xi has a display of 1024x768 and works in Windows 7. If anyone is interested, I can give advice on modernization.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 06:39:03 pm by Converter »
 
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Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #408 on: May 02, 2019, 06:36:06 pm »
Overwriting the EEPROM in the input module does not significantly affect the bandwidth of the oscilloscope. But I found elements in the circuit, which change WP7200 to WP7300. Each WP7200 or WP7100 can be changed to WP7300. It turned out to be easier than I thought.
 
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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #409 on: May 04, 2019, 05:35:50 am »
If you are willing to help a little, how much time would somebody else need to implement your WR204Xi upgrade to W7?
I already bought a SSD for our WR64Xi and maybe i can try the W7 upgrade at the same time. This would probably be another thread. I could also contribute a description of the maintainance i did last year on our WR 64Xi.

Regards, Dieter
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #410 on: May 04, 2019, 11:07:57 am »
I think that for this purpose it is more correct to make a separate topic. I have a few more new ideas for upgrading the WR - xxx Xi. And even more - I would try to upgrade 64Xi to 204Xi (similarly, as I decided it with WavePro). Since I have 204Xi, for this I still need 64Xi to compare the design of its input module (attenuator/amplifiers).
______________________________________________

Excuse me. I now saw that you are opposed to "crazy things like motherboard upgrades, option hacks and the like", so this will not be interesting for you, because I plan to replace the motherboard, because installing Win 7 is hardly justified on a platform with Pentium M. And the bandwidth extension, Of course, this also includes the hack options.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 12:15:07 pm by Converter »
 

Offline sergeyklenov

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #411 on: August 31, 2019, 07:18:32 am »
Will post my experience with 7300

I get one from Japan Yahoo auction
[attach=1]

Get intel dq77cp motherboard with last version that support pci, get i7 3.5GHz processor and 4gb memory, because of x86 cant use more.
[attach=2]

Slim cooler
[attach=3]

Draw and make frames for new display, back motherboard and floppy replace to usb3.0, Gerber files included, but maybe need some corrections ;)
[attach=17]
[attach=18]
[attach=4]

Back motherboard frame installed
[attach=5]

iPad retina display with frame adaptor. Display get from ali example link:
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32415898372.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f065118C8pk6T&algo_pvid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35&algo_expid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35-6&btsid=90077497-0744-4b4c-903f-f9fbd182eae7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_52
[attach=6]
[attach=7]

Capacitive touch screen ordered on eBay with usb interface
link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
[attach=8]

Display assembled. For displayport i use AbuzeMark minidisplayport adaptor board ordered on japan website.
link: http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=47&zenid=3lpf44jedg59mr38l9bri4m647
[attach=9]

Using ATI video card with displayport. Nvidia no, because big current and power supply shutting down from time to time.
Adapt connector to internal use.
[attach=10]
[attach=11]
[attach=12]

So, all installed now, add new ssd 2.5" with Windows 7 x86 SP1, install last software v8.5.1.1, drivers for touchscreen, calibrate it and replace driver for work correct with hyperthreading cpu.
[attach=13]
[attach=14]

And add software options... ;)
[attach=15]

Finished.
[attach=16]
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 09:08:39 am by sergeyklenov »
 
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Offline lukier

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #412 on: August 31, 2019, 08:41:20 am »
Awesome job sergey!

I'm in the middle of modernising DDA-3000 (essentially WP7300).

I'm mostly using some spare parts I had from WaveRunner 6100A modernisation attempts (Asrock IMB-181-L motherboard with LVDS, PCIe to PCI adapter). Instead of Retina I bought the LCD recommended by Converter (NEC XGA 10.4") as I wanted to avoid doing mechanical work and drilling (equals to butchering in my case) stuff.  I've already have a lot of work to do with 3D printing, gluing, sanding and painting the front panel bezel (the scope came without any).

Also I have some bug with LVDS, the motherboard can output 4 lanes, the panel has 3 so I only use the first 3 lanes and configure BIOS to 1024x768 @ 18 bit mode, but the image is stretched in the horizontal direction. Need to double check my DIY cable and do some probing to see if I have correct H/V sync signals on the 3rd lane.

Do you have the link to the capacitive touchscreen? If one day I decide to switch to the Retina display I'd like that instead of 4 wire resistive.
 

Offline sergeyklenov

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #413 on: August 31, 2019, 08:55:31 am »
Awesome job sergey!
Thank you!

I'm in the middle of modernising DDA-3000 (essentially WP7300).

I'm mostly using some spare parts I had from WaveRunner 6100A ... PCIe to PCI adapter).

Please be careful using PCIe->PCI chips, because you can have problems with lecroy card drivers install. It need native PCI.
I tried many chips with no luck.

Do you have the link to the capacitive touchscreen? If one day I decide to switch to the Retina display I'd like that instead of 4 wire resistive.

I get one for me by this link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

Offline lukier

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #414 on: August 31, 2019, 10:09:23 am »
Please be careful using PCIe->PCI chips, because you can have problems with lecroy card drivers install. It need native PCI.
I tried many chips with no luck.

I had this issue with WaveRunner 6100A, it worked but wasn't stable, X-Stream was throwing erros once in a while.

Here with DDA3000 it seems to work well and I wasn't afraid to try it because many motherboards mentioned in this thread (e.g. Asus B85M-E) implement PCI with a converter IC, just integrated on the motherboard. IMB-181-L is ITX with just once PCIe slot, so I have to use external adapter. On the positive side it is industrial motherboard and has native LVDS support (including backlight control etc), which is nice (once I get it to work).
 

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #415 on: August 31, 2019, 03:18:01 pm »
Thank you Sergey for your contribution. It was interesting.
But I see in your photo that you are using only half resolution of the Retina matrix.
With full resolution, the characters become too difficult to read (without a microscope  :D) and I'm not sure that using the fine-tuning Windows can solve this problem. In any case, I have not tried yet.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1139238/#msg1139238

For a long time on eBay, the amazing offer AIMB-582QG2 for $49 was valid:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591806763
I bought 2 pcs. It comes in new condition and is a complete set. The s1155 motherboard contains PCI, lvds, and DP. Perhaps the seller still has it (if you write to him).
Its official price $263:
https://buyemt.advantech.com/Boards-Cards/Industrial-Motherboards-Micro-ATX-Motherboards/model-AIMB-582QG2-00A1E.htm

The processor I use this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E3-1275V2-SR0PA-3-5-3-9-GHz-Quad-Core-CPU-Processor-8MB-LGA-1155/173936733803
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 03:39:30 pm by Converter »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #416 on: August 31, 2019, 08:50:23 pm »
I get one for me by this link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
this is the kind of touch controller that i used on my Tek TLA714 LA, now its lack one USB port on the side, but i think its ok since i have one port left and i guess i will seldomly use it, only for 1 pendrive to transfer data.

For a long time on eBay, the amazing offer AIMB-582QG2 for $49 was valid:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591806763
damned i missed that, someone here must have grabbed that already.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 08:53:27 pm by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Ivan_Vetrov

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #417 on: September 25, 2019, 02:37:50 am »
Hello! Tell me how to enter the service menu 7K ? Asks for a code.
 

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #418 on: September 25, 2019, 03:02:59 am »
Hello! Tell me how to enter the service menu 7K ? Asks for a code.
9472
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #419 on: September 25, 2019, 11:56:50 pm »
As some may know I'm working on getting a Wavepro 7200A back to work. I have gotten quite far but I have one (big) remaining problem: nothing shows on the TFT screen. I have backlight but the TFT screen shows typical behaviour when there is no signal. I have done a fresh install; is there something missing to enable the internal display output?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #420 on: September 26, 2019, 12:18:14 am »
have you tried whats on the external output? is your setup standard from factory? (unlike some people here who changed motherboard)
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #421 on: September 26, 2019, 12:25:01 am »
have you tried whats on the external output? is your setup standard from factory? (unlike some people here who changed motherboard)
The external output works OK. Everything in the scope is standard.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #422 on: September 26, 2019, 12:51:50 am »
maybe you can trace from the AGP card where it receive video signal from motherboard dvo, checking the BIOS setting maybe its disabled? or defaulted to using external monitor? i'm not sure i never investigate as nobody reported such problem afaik. just giving some suggestion. maybe switching tft monitor to see if its broken? but that require money buying additional monitor part. probing video signal with other DSO if signal coming in? just suggestions.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #423 on: September 26, 2019, 01:09:57 am »
The external output works OK. Everything in the scope is standard.
Are you sure that your LCD matrix is working? Or the problem is in the signal cable - over time they sometimes lose connection.
If there are more complex hardware problems, then the idea looks better - to replace with a new motherboard with built-in lvds output (along with the XGA matrix).
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #424 on: September 26, 2019, 01:55:50 am »
The external output works OK. Everything in the scope is standard.
Are you sure that your LCD matrix is working? Or the problem is in the signal cable - over time they sometimes lose connection.
If there are more complex hardware problems, then the idea looks better - to replace with a new motherboard with built-in lvds output (along with the XGA matrix).
I dug a little deeper. It seems the cable from the AGP slot is carrying parallel video data (which is then converted to DVI by the SIL164 chip and then back to parallel by the SIL151 or SIL1151 chip). However, I don't see any video data when I probe the signals. It is like the card in the AGP slot isn't detected as an intel 'ADD' card to enable the parallel video signals. OR it needs a special driver from Intel to enable this feature. What I'm wondering: does a working Wavepro show the Lecroy startup logo? It could be a contact problem as well; it seems my 7200A has contact issues in several places. I want to reseat some chips on the video related boards and try again.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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