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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: dxl on May 02, 2016, 12:37:01 pm

Title: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on May 02, 2016, 12:37:01 pm
Hi Forum,

i recently acquired a DDA-3000 Disk driver analyzer, which - i think - is the same as the Lecroy WavePro 7300a Scope. To fasten boot time, i thought about replacing the Hard disk with a IDE SSD. Think a bit further, it might also be a good idea to upgrade the mainboard itself - there's a Pentium 4 Mainboard in there, with 4 PCI slots. I think upgrading it to a 2/4 core Socket 775 Board would be possible, but i don't know whether Lecroy modified that mainboard (like Tektronix for example does with their TDS6/7/8000 scopes). Anyone ever tried that?

Regards
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on May 02, 2016, 01:01:28 pm
i recently acquired a DDA-3000 Disk driver analyzer, which - i think - is the same as the Lecroy WavePro 7300a Scope.

Congratulations, nice scope. Yes, the DDA3000 is pretty similar to the WavePro 7300A (aside from a few front panel buttons).

Quote
To fasten boot time, i thought about replacing the Hard disk with a IDE SSD.

Good idea, however I'd go for a SATA SSD as the intel board in these scopes also have SATA ports. I have a 240GB intel SSD 530 in my WP7300A.

Quote
Think a bit further, it might also be a good idea to upgrade the mainboard itself - there's a Pentium 4 Mainboard in there, with 4 PCI slots. I think upgrading it to a 2/4 core Socket 775 Board would be possible, but i don't know whether Lecroy modified that mainboard (like Tektronix for example does with their TDS6/7/8000 scopes). Anyone ever tried that?

The mainboard is a standard mainboard but forget it, replacing it with a multi-core board will not work for two simple reasons:

1. The scope's display is connected via DVO bus to a DVO-to-AGP adapter card which converts the output from the intel chipset graphics into DVO for the display. This card will not work with any other chipset than the i865G, and is unlikely to work with any other mainboard than the intel D865GLC due to the lack of support for the adapter card in the BIOS.

2. Even if you somehow manage to upgrade the mainboard, as soon as the OS sees multiple virtual (HypterThreading) or real CPU cores WinXP will switch to the SMP kernel and the scope's hardware drivers will start acting funny and render the scope unusable. The drivers for the WavePro7k (and DDA and SDA descendants) do not work with the SMP kernel of XP, which means no multi-core CPU and no HyperThreading.

What you can do is to upgrade the CPU with a faster one. The WavePro/DDA is an X-Stream scope, i.e. it very much relies on the CPU's L2 cache. Upgrade the BIOS of the intel D865GLC mainboard with the last one from the intel site, upgrade RAM to 2GB or 3GB and get a fast Pentium4 processor with 800MHz FSB and 1MB or 2MB L2 cache that is supported by the revision of the mainboard in your scope (intel has compatibility lists somewhere).

Just make sure you do not enable HyperThreading as this means you have to re-install Windows or manually fiddle the uniprocessor kernel back in place as disabling HT will not make the driver problems go away.

Also, make sure you download the latest X-Stream software for your scope from the LeCroy website.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on May 02, 2016, 01:15:16 pm
Thanks Wuerstchenhund. After reading your post i think i'll only upgrade the Harddisk to a SSD for now.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on May 02, 2016, 01:35:32 pm
Thanks Wuerstchenhund. After reading your post i think i'll only upgrade the Harddisk to a SSD for now.

I'd still recommend to upgrade RAM and CPU as well. My WP7300A came with the same old 2.53GHz Northwood P4 with 533MHz FSB and 512k cache, so I upgraded to a P4 3.2E with 1MB cache and 800MHz FSB, and this made a difference. Aside from the scope no longer feeling a bit laggy, the update rate increased a bit, which is understandable as X-Stream uses the CPU for pretty much all waveform calculations (other scopes use ASICs). It also speeds up WaveScan and helps with some of the advanced options (i.e. SDA).

The D865GLC compatibility table can be found here:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards/000006655.html (http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards/000006655.html)

Here's the last BIOS:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/10130/BIOS-Update-BF86510A-86A- (https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/10130/BIOS-Update-BF86510A-86A-)

Used P4 processors are generally dirt cheap these days, so why not?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on May 02, 2016, 02:11:14 pm
I'm not sure whether i will upgrade the CPU - have to check my board revision whether it supports the newer CPUs. Good to see that the BIOS can be upgraded, with the Tektronix i had before that wasn't possible.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: user on May 02, 2016, 02:48:59 pm
You can be used a compact flash (x400 or better) with adapter ide 44
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-Card-Compact-Flash-Card-to-IDE-44Pins-ATA-Converter-Adapter-Laptop-SSD-/181924255564?hash=item2a5b87d74c:g:UG4AAOSwAYtWPIVs (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-Card-Compact-Flash-Card-to-IDE-44Pins-ATA-Converter-Adapter-Laptop-SSD-/181924255564?hash=item2a5b87d74c:g:UG4AAOSwAYtWPIVs)
 I use it on tektronix TDS7000 - load time decreased by 2 times (1.5 min vs 3min)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 02, 2016, 02:56:54 pm
You have to be carefull with compact flash cards. On more modern systems they are often not recognised as a fixed disk drive causing all kinds of problems. In my most recent hard-drive to SSD conversion I used a 44 pin to mSata adapter to put an mSata SSD into a Tektronix logic analyser. It could not be made to boot from a compact flash card! On an older piece of equipment Windows marked a compact flash card as a removable device which caused some software to refuse to install.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: user on May 02, 2016, 03:09:28 pm
 You have problem only with swap file.
 This problem is solved simply - hitachi microdrive http://woshub.com/removable-usb-flash-drive-as-local-disk-in-windows-7/ (http://woshub.com/removable-usb-flash-drive-as-local-disk-in-windows-7/)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 02, 2016, 03:12:22 pm
When using any flash based medium you really should disable the swap. Disabling swap makes Windows faster anyway.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: user on May 02, 2016, 03:17:22 pm
Disable the swap file - its very bad idea! It leads to crashes and slow performance. Old oscilloscopes have very lower memory
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on May 02, 2016, 04:13:51 pm
You can be used a compact flash (x400 or better) with adapter ide 44
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-Card-Compact-Flash-Card-to-IDE-44Pins-ATA-Converter-Adapter-Laptop-SSD-/181924255564?hash=item2a5b87d74c:g:UG4AAOSwAYtWPIVs (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-Card-Compact-Flash-Card-to-IDE-44Pins-ATA-Converter-Adapter-Laptop-SSD-/181924255564?hash=item2a5b87d74c:g:UG4AAOSwAYtWPIVs)

Why the hell would you want to fiddle with such a poor crutch when the mainboard in the scope in question has normal SATA ports that can take a cheep and chearful standard SATA SSD?

Quote
I use it on tektronix TDS7000 - load time decreased by 2 times (1.5 min vs 3min)

Yeah, well, that's no surprise considering how awfully slow the old TDS7000 is. But then, that's Tektronix for you.  ;)

But this is not a Tek scope, and what is a good solution for an old TDS7000 isn't necessarily a good solution for other scopes. Besides, the scope in question has no 44pin EIDE interface but a standard 40pin one, besides the SATA ports. So your 44pin adapter makes even less sense.  :palm:

When using any flash based medium you really should disable the swap. Disabling swap makes Windows faster anyway.

Unfortunately that is not correct. Except in certain very rare border cases swap should be left enabled in Windows. It's also not a problem, unless you plan to use a SD card or a USB memory stick as system drive normal swapping isn't much of a problem for good industrial CF cards, and is pretty much meaningless for a modern SSD.

What helps when running XP is to disable background defragmentation, and leaving a bit of space unused so that the drive's wear levelling can do its work. If you use an intel SSD, you can even get TRIM via intel's SSD Toolbox.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: GlowingGhoul on May 02, 2016, 04:21:30 pm
Upgrade? Can you wedge a KeySight board into there?     :-BROKE
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 02, 2016, 04:22:51 pm
I have been running several Windows versions with swap disabled for nearly a decade (and continue to do so when running Windows in a VM). The only problem you may run into is an out of memory error but that never has lead to Windows crashing on me. The problem with Windows is that it always pushes stuff into swap while trying to use the RAM as little as possible. Needless to say that needing to get something from swap whenever you change to a different application makes a computer extremely slow.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on May 02, 2016, 04:48:25 pm
I have been running several Windows versions with swap disabled for nearly a decade (and continue to do so when running Windows in a VM). The only problem you may run into is an out of memory error but that never has lead to Windows crashing on me.

That might well be but that's probably down to your specific situation.

Quote
The problem with Windows is that it always pushes stuff into swap while trying to use the RAM as little as possible.

No, it doesn't. It's a common misconception (like the one that the page file is only needed if there's not enough physical RAM in the PC) that Windows uses as little RAM as possible, but it's not true. Paging in Windows is a lot more complex. In 2008 Mark Russinovich has written some very good artciles about memory management in Windows:

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/markrussinovich/2008/07/21/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-physical-memory/ (https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/markrussinovich/2008/07/21/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-physical-memory/)

and

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/markrussinovich/2008/11/17/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-virtual-memory/ (https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/markrussinovich/2008/11/17/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-virtual-memory/)

The relevant bit:

"[...]Perhaps one of the most commonly asked questions related to virtual memory is, how big should I make the paging file? There’s no end of ridiculous advice out on the web and in the newsstand magazines that cover Windows, and even Microsoft has published misleading recommendations. Almost all the suggestions are based on multiplying RAM size by some factor, with common values being 1.2, 1.5 and 2. Now that you understand the role that the paging file plays in defining a system’s commit limit and how processes contribute to the commit charge, you’re well positioned to see how useless such formulas truly are.

Since the commit limit sets an upper bound on how much private and pagefile-backed virtual memory can be allocated concurrently by running processes, the only way to reasonably size the paging file is to know the maximum total commit charge for the programs you like to have running at the same time. If the commit limit is smaller than that number, your programs won’t be able to allocate the virtual memory they want and will fail to run properly.

So how do you know how much commit charge your workloads require? You might have noticed in the screenshots that Windows tracks that number and Process Explorer shows it: Peak Commit Charge. To optimally size your paging file you should start all the applications you run at the same time, load typical data sets, and then note the commit charge peak (or look at this value after a period of time where you know maximum load was attained). Set the paging file minimum to be that value minus the amount of RAM in your system (if the value is negative, pick a minimum size to permit the kind of crash dump you are configured for). If you want to have some breathing room for potentially large commit demands, set the maximum to double that number. [...]"


Tl;dr: unless you're running some borderline case (i.e. Windows Embedded on a flash medium with very limited writes) leave the paging file enabled.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: user on May 02, 2016, 05:08:21 pm
Why the hell would you want to fiddle with such a poor crutch when the mainboard in the scope in question has normal SATA ports that can take a cheep and chearful standard SATA SSD?
Ups... Sorry... I did not know that in the old Lecroy have SATA
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 02, 2016, 05:13:25 pm
Just try it yourself and notice how much faster Windows works without swap. Also look at the task manager: you'll see stuff will be put into virtual memory even though there is plenty of memory left. The way Windows' memory management works has been utterly crap for decades no matter how good it looks on paper. Oh and note virtual memory is something different than a swap (page) file according to the links you provided! Virtual memory is just an address space which is filled with chunks (pages) of remapped physical memory.

And again: there is really nothing special about my situation. I just want Windows to work quick and one major improvement is to disable swap completely.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: user on May 02, 2016, 05:21:17 pm
Just try it yourself and notice how much faster Windows works without swap. Also look at the task manager: you'll see stuff will be put into virtual memory even though there is plenty of memory left. The way Windows' memory management works has been utterly crap for decades no matter how good it looks on paper. Oh and note virtual memory is something different than a swap (page) file according to the links you provided! Virtual memory is just an address space which is filled with chunks (pages) of remapped physical memory.

And again: there is really nothing special about my situation. I just want Windows to work quick and one major improvement is to disable swap completely.
If you have 8Gb and better RAM - no need swap for XP. If you have only 256Mb RAM - you can not work without swap
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on May 02, 2016, 05:53:54 pm
Just try it yourself and notice how much faster Windows works without swap.

I tried long time ago (involuntarily), and it worked fine as long as hardly any memory was needed. Once I started loading my main application however the system ran out of memory and crashed. Reproduceable.

That was a 32GB system btw.

Quote
Also look at the task manager: you'll see stuff will be put into virtual memory even though there is plenty of memory left. The way Windows' memory management works has been utterly crap for decades no matter how good it looks on paper.

The only thing that is crap is Taskmanager, which pretty much lies about the RAM consumption (not all RAM that is shown as "unused" is actually unused/free). And as someone who has been working with very high workloads for ages (some of my workstations already had 4GB in 2001, 32GB in 2006, 128GB in 2009 and currently between 256GB and 768GB, although under Server 2012 R2) I can't complain about memory management in Windows really. In fact, my only complaint is that older versions weren't fully NUMA aware, which on some multiprocessor systems was a bit of a pain (but there are ways around that).

And it's not that Windows memory management (which for WindowsNT was some extend inherited from VMS, the mainframe OS that back then was pretty much the high integrity cornerstone of many large businesses) is substantially different than that of other modern operating systems, i.e. Linux. The differences (i.e. two vs three level paging, LRU vs FIFO and so on) are pretty minor.

Quote
Oh and note virtual memory is something different than a swap (page) file according to the links you provided! Virtual memory is just an address space which is filled with chunks (pages) of remapped physical memory.

That's incorrect. The page file isn't something different, it *is part* of the virtual memory space! That's why its size matters.

Quote
And again: there is really nothing special about my situation. I just want Windows to work quick and one major improvement is to disable swap completely.

Great if that works for you (however, if disabling swap has such a huge impact on your system's performance then that's a clear sign of some other issues in your system, i.e. insufficient RAM, if that happens in VMs then this could be excessive memory overcommitting). For the reasons explained in the artciles I linked to however I'd not recommend to disable swap on any system unless reducing the disk activity is crucial (which it isn't on a SSD), not on a standard PC and even less so (to get back to topic) on a scope that will be fitted with a SATA SSD.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 02, 2016, 06:05:01 pm
Oh and note virtual memory is something different than a swap (page) file according to the links you provided! Virtual memory is just an address space which is filled with chunks (pages) of remapped physical memory.
That's incorrect. The page file isn't something different, it *is part* of the virtual memory space! That's why its size matters.
No it isn't. You should really read a book about the 386 and how MMUs map physical memory into a virtual address space in general. Accessing a swap file is nothing more than a reaction on an MMU interrupt stating the page does not exist in physical memory so a piece of physical memory must be swapped between data on a hard drive. Assuming a process always needs/uses a bit of swap space is nuts. Maybe this was true for the operating systems Windows NT stems from but those days are long gone.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on May 02, 2016, 08:03:48 pm
Thanks Wuerstchenhund. After reading your post i think i'll only upgrade the Harddisk to a SSD for now.

I'd still recommend to upgrade RAM and CPU as well. My WP7300A came with the same old 2.53GHz Northwood P4 with 533MHz FSB and 512k cache, so I upgraded to a P4 3.2E with 1MB cache and 800MHz FSB, and this made a difference. Aside from the scope no longer feeling a bit laggy, the update rate increased a bit, which is understandable as X-Stream uses the CPU for pretty much all waveform calculations (other scopes use ASICs). It also speeds up WaveScan and helps with some of the advanced options (i.e. SDA).

The D865GLC compatibility table can be found here:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards/000006655.html (http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards/000006655.html)

Here's the last BIOS:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/10130/BIOS-Update-BF86510A-86A- (https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/10130/BIOS-Update-BF86510A-86A-)

Used P4 processors are generally dirt cheap these days, so why not?

I just checked the board revision, and it supports the latest Pentium 4 Models. So i just bought a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 1MB cache and 800 MHz FSB for 10US$. Given the class of the scope that should be well invested ;)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on May 11, 2016, 08:05:34 pm
Seems like upgrading the Motherboard is actually possible. I put in an Acer H67H with a Core i3 3GHz Processor. Installing the Lecroy software worked without any problems, the DSO starts with that new board without problems. Only thing left is to built a DVI adapter to connect the touchscreen display.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on May 12, 2016, 05:20:20 am
Seems like upgrading the Motherboard is actually possible. I put in an Acer H67H with a Core i3 3GHz Processor. Installing the Lecroy software worked without any problems, the DSO starts with that new board without problems.

Did you make sure the 2nd core is disabled in the BIOS. If not then you will most certainly encounter some strange errors when actually using the scope.

Sure it does boot without problems. The issues come later. I learned that the hard way after enabling HyperThreading, after which LeCroy support confirmed that some of the WP7k drivers (front panel?) won't work correctly with the XP SMP kernel.

Quote
Only thing left is to built a DVI adapter to connect the touchscreen display.

Which is another problem.

Also, you replaced a proven solid industrial-class mainboard with a cheap consumer one (Acer's reputation for building crap is well deserved, after all), which is unlikely to benefit the scope's reliability.

All for no gains in scope performance (which maxes out around a 3GHz P4/1MB) and little gains in XP performance (and you're still stuck with 4GB RAM or less).

However, if you still want to replace the mainboard (and lose LeCroy support should you ever need it) then I'd recommend you at least use an industrial mainboard. Which often comes with LVDS on-board so solves the issue of getting the internal display to work. Just make sure it doesn't use wonky chipsets like Marvell for storage or Realtek for NIC, and disable all but the first core and HypterThreading (if available).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on May 16, 2016, 09:53:47 pm
Not sure why you're so pessimistic about the motherboard upgrade. If it doesn't work, i can still swap the mainboard back to the original.

I solved the LVDS "Problem" by recognizing the the motherboard doesn't output LVDS - it output the Panel Data 12 Bit bus directly. So all i had to do was to remove the Sil164CT64 chip from the tft controller board, and solder the DVI differential signals to the corresponding pcb traces instead.

The keypad is behaving strange, that's true - sometimes it shows channel LEDs although they are not activated. Seems like a fix of the driver is needed (if it's not the X-Stream Software, but i guess that's not the case) .
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: hs3 on June 04, 2016, 10:23:10 am
Interesting information about the upgrade possibilities as well as the Frontpanel driver issue.

If this progresses at some point and there would be need for hardware USB analyzer captures from WavePro 7300A I would be able to help probably. Though you mentioned the LeCroy USB Chief so you may have that taken care of already if needed.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on June 04, 2016, 11:43:10 am
The Frontpanel is actually connected via the Lecroy PCI controller card, so there's no USB involved. I think i figured out the registers, but haven't had a chance to write a new driver so far.

My WavePro actually seems to have a HW issue - as soon as Sample Memory goes above 1MS, the trace misses half of the Data. This happens on all Channels. It also happened with the original Mainboard/CPU/Software, so it can't be caused by the upgrade. Attached a few pictures, if anyone has an idea where to look for that Problem let me know.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: hs3 on June 04, 2016, 12:11:52 pm
The Frontpanel is actually connected via the Lecroy PCI controller card, so there's no USB involved. I think i figured out the registers, but haven't had a chance to write a new driver so far.
Thank you for the correction. I just realized that in the WaveRunner 6K series the frontpanel is connected using USB and I must have thought they would be done in a similar way.

Quote
My WavePro actually seems to have a HW issue - as soon as Sample Memory goes above 1MS, the trace misses half of the Data. This happens on all Channels. It also happened with the original Mainboard/CPU/Software, so it can't be caused by the upgrade. Attached a few pictures, if anyone has an idea where to look for that Problem let me know.
When you did the motherboard swap have you had a look and taken pictures of the acquisition board? Just wondering in general how the sample memory etc. is arranged.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on June 04, 2016, 08:01:45 pm
The Frontpanel is actually connected via the Lecroy PCI controller card, so there's no USB involved. I think i figured out the registers, but haven't had a chance to write a new driver so far.
Thank you for the correction. I just realized that in the WaveRunner 6K series the frontpanel is connected using USB and I must have thought they would be done in a similar way.
Ok, don't know about other LeCroy scopes - it's actually the first LeCroy Scope i have.
Quote
My WavePro actually seems to have a HW issue - as soon as Sample Memory goes above 1MS, the trace misses half of the Data. This happens on all Channels. It also happened with the original Mainboard/CPU/Software, so it can't be caused by the upgrade. Attached a few pictures, if anyone has an idea where to look for that Problem let me know.
When you did the motherboard swap have you had a look and taken pictures of the acquisition board? Just wondering in general how the sample memory etc. is arranged.

I had a look at the Acquisition Board, but the Sample Memory and the ADC are covered by one big Heatsink which i didn't want to take off. So i have no idea how the board actually looks like.

I added some pictures how i connected the TFT display to a normal DVI port (insted of the i865 DVO port). It was basically removing the Sil164 and soldering the DVI wires directly to the signal lanes.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: hs3 on June 05, 2016, 09:00:44 am
Ok, don't know about other LeCroy scopes - it's actually the first LeCroy Scope i have.
Can't say I would have much experience with them either. Never seen a WaveRunner in person, just seen some documents that showed the USB frontpanel connection which led me to incorrectly think it may have been done the same way in these WavePros.

I had a look at the Acquisition Board, but the Sample Memory and the ADC are covered by one big Heatsink which i didn't want to take off. So i have no idea how the board actually looks like.
Yes, understood. The lack of visibility to that area is probably why I didn't remember what it looks like there either.

You mentioned that the problem happens after 1MS. This is with all 4 channels on? What if you only enable 2 channels? Channels 2 and 3 I think so that they work at 20GS/s and there is only 2 channels available. Does it still happen after 1MS?

It was my understanding that channels 1 and 2 are their own group and channels 3 and 4 another group. And that they would be quite independent. So it's interesting that the issue seems to affect all channels. That might give some clues about what could be causing the issue or at least what shouldn't be causing it.

I added some pictures how i connected the TFT display to a normal DVI port (insted of the i865 DVO port). It was basically removing the Sil164 and soldering the DVI wires directly to the signal lanes.
That's interesting use of the DVI interface on the LeCroy board if I interpreted it correctly based on that picture.

Parallel data in -> DVI transmitter -> a few centimeters of traces on the PCB -> DVI receiver -> Parallel data output again
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on June 05, 2016, 07:24:31 pm
Quote
You mentioned that the problem happens after 1MS. This is with all 4 channels on? What if you only enable 2 channels? Channels 2 and 3 I think so that they work at 20GS/s and there is only 2 channels available. Does it still happen after 1MS?

It was my understanding that channels 1 and 2 are their own group and channels 3 and 4 another group. And that they would be quite independent. So it's interesting that the issue seems to affect all channels. That might give some clues about what could be causing the issue or at least what shouldn't be causing it.

It happens on all channels at the same time, no matter how many channels i have enabled. It always happens with Sample Lengths >1MS.
I added some pictures how i connected the TFT display to a normal DVI port (insted of the i865 DVO port). It was basically removing the Sil164 and soldering the DVI wires directly to the signal lanes.
That's interesting use of the DVI interface on the LeCroy board if I interpreted it correctly based on that picture.

Parallel data in -> DVI transmitter -> a few centimeters of traces on the PCB -> DVI receiver -> Parallel data output again
[/quote]

It's a bit different as the Bus from the Motherboard is 12 bits wide while the TFT has 6 Bits per color channel. So electrically they are not the same.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: hs3 on June 07, 2016, 08:56:12 pm
Quote
That's interesting use of the DVI interface on the LeCroy board if I interpreted it correctly based on that picture.

Parallel data in -> DVI transmitter -> a few centimeters of traces on the PCB -> DVI receiver -> Parallel data output again

It's a bit different as the Bus from the Motherboard is 12 bits wide while the TFT has 6 Bits per color channel. So electrically they are not the same.

Ah yes that makes sense. I guess the data coming from the motherboard is 12 bit dual clock/edge as used with these sometimes and then output to TFT panel typical single clock 24/18 bit so the DVI transmitter and receiver are used to convert between these to have suitable signals for the panel.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 08, 2016, 05:37:03 am
My WavePro actually seems to have a HW issue - as soon as Sample Memory goes above 1MS, the trace misses half of the Data. This happens on all Channels. It also happened with the original Mainboard/CPU/Software, so it can't be caused by the upgrade. Attached a few pictures, if anyone has an idea where to look for that Problem let me know.

That's very likely a defective PCI controller board, although it could also be a problem with the Autonomous Acquisition Controller on the acq mainboard.

All assuming you didn't change any settings in the locked service/development sections of the interface, which can cause errors like these.

When you did the motherboard swap have you had a look and taken pictures of the acquisition board? Just wondering in general how the sample memory etc. is arranged.

The acq system contains a mainboard with four 10GSa/s ADC & Memory cards, each containing six interleaved ADCs, 24MB of memory, and a 1.25Gbps Ethernet interface.

The PCI card has three 1.25Gbps Ethernet interfaces, one for ADC & Memory Cards 1 and 3, another one for ADC & Memory Cards 2 and 4, and a third one for the Autonomous Acquisition Controller. It also has an I2C interface for the front panel, and passes through the power switch to the mainboard and standby LED signal to the ProBus I/F card, and controls reset (pressing 'Clear Sweep', 'Multi-Zoom' and 'Auto Setup' buttons simultaneously sends a reset to the mainboard). In addition, there's also a RS232 interface (used for the touch screen).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on June 08, 2016, 08:14:00 am
My WavePro actually seems to have a HW issue - as soon as Sample Memory goes above 1MS, the trace misses half of the Data. This happens on all Channels. It also happened with the original Mainboard/CPU/Software, so it can't be caused by the upgrade. Attached a few pictures, if anyone has an idea where to look for that Problem let me know.

That's very likely a defective PCI controller board, although it could also be a problem with the Autonomous Acquisition Controller on the acq mainboard.

All assuming you didn't change any settings in the locked service/development sections of the interface, which can cause errors like these.

It's definitely not caused by any changes in the Service section - the error was there before i even figured out the codes. However, the Problem disappeared during the last two days - maybe it's temperature related. Temperatures are a bit higher during the last days - feels a bit more like summer ;)

Thanks for the details about how the aquisition works, very interesting.

What i find a bit strange is that the LeCroy doesn't complain that some selftest fails - from the HP/Agilent/Keysight and Tektronix gear i have i'm used to the fact the Selftests are failing way before there's actually some visible Problem on the Measurement results. Is there some Kind of extended selftest on these devices? I didn't found any so far in the menus. But maybe i was just looking in the wrong place.

Regards
Sven
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: hs3 on June 08, 2016, 08:22:35 am

That's very likely a defective PCI controller board, although it could also be a problem with the Autonomous Acquisition Controller on the acq mainboard.


I was able to find couple older pictures of the PCI board. Unfortunately no single focused photo but these three photos should cover different areas.

Looks like there is

Xilinx FPGA as the main controller

2 pcs IS61LPS51218A 9 Mbit SRAM
http://www.issi.com/WW/pdf/61VPS_LPS25636A_51218A.pdf (http://www.issi.com/WW/pdf/61VPS_LPS25636A_51218A.pdf)

3 pcs HDMP-1636A SerDes ICs
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet2/d/0kjuo0ocrr7jp8l3l6ayhkyod0fy.pdf (http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet2/d/0kjuo0ocrr7jp8l3l6ayhkyod0fy.pdf)

LPC47N227 IO controller
ftp://ftp.smsc.com/pub/Data_Briefs/47n227db.pdf (http://ftp://ftp.smsc.com/pub/Data_Briefs/47n227db.pdf)

No idea how the RAM is actually used here but looks like there is two about 1 MB RAM chips which could be about the same as the 1 MS limit for the problem. Probably quite far fetched idea.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: hs3 on June 08, 2016, 08:27:01 am
feels a bit more like summer ;)
And if using that LeCroy in a not so big room it probably helps with that feeling too ;)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: joeqsmith on June 08, 2016, 05:48:45 pm
Like that Agilent part on there.   

What's inside U17?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: gslick on June 08, 2016, 06:49:10 pm
it's been a few years since i wrote the last Windows driver (which was actually a device driver for the lecroy USB chief, which crashed my Windows XP system)

I'm curious about this. It's been a while since I used a USB Chief. I seem to remember the software and driver running fine on Windows XP at the time, but sometimes getting bugchecks when trying to run the same software and driver on Windows 7. I never spent any time trying to debug the root cause of the bugchecks.

Did you write a device driver for the USB Chief that was functionally equivalent to the CATC / LeCroy version and worked with the analyzer application? I imagine that must have been a significant reverse engineering effort to figure out the interfaces to both the USB Chief device and the analyzer application.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 22, 2016, 12:09:51 pm
I got a first driver hack that both sets the LEDs correctly (also on Systems with Hyperthreading or multiple CPUS) and reads the Frontpanel Keys correctly. However, have to clean up the driver source to make a final driver. Right now almost no code is present for unloading the driver. But the Frontpanel already works much better with this driver compared to the original version.

Nice work  :-+   It would be great to finally enable Hyperthreading on my WP7300A.

Have you considered making your driver (once it's final) available to LeCroy? They might even include it in the regular X-Stream software updates.

BTW, in your upgrade endeavors, have you considered or even looked into replacing the pretty loud fans in the WavePro 7k? I'm contemplating looking into this on mine, as the noise level could really be a little bit lower.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 22, 2016, 06:13:37 pm
BTW, in your upgrade endeavors, have you considered or even looked into replacing the pretty loud fans in the WavePro 7k? I'm contemplating looking into this on mine, as the noise level could really be a little bit lower.

No, i did not look into that yet because i don't have any knowledge how much cooling is required. I'm a bit afraid that something is overheating than if i reduce it too much.

I wasn't thinking of replacing the original fans with slower ones, but I'd guess that there might be some fans that push a similar amount of air while being a little less noisy than the (by now pretty worn) original fans.

Quote
But i have to agree that the noise level is insane. It's even louder than the Tektronix scopes i have, and i thought that's impossible :)

To be fair, it's not that I couldn't live with it (and the Keysight scopes at work are similarly noisy) but a little less would be nice.

On the other side, compared to the noise level my Anristu MS8609A Spectrum Analyzer emits (from a single fan!), the WP7k is almost silent  ;)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 24, 2016, 10:13:27 am
Another topic:

Do you (or someone else) know whether the I2C/UART/SPI decode options are available for WP7K scopes?

Of course it's available (as are over a dozen other standards ;) ). You're looking for the following product codes:

WP7K-UART-RS232bus
WP7K-I2Cbus
WP7K-SPIbus

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 24, 2016, 09:43:32 pm
Thanks. Just asking because i can't select the WavePro 7k for those options on the Lecroy site. Maybe that's because they're end of sale.

Pretty much, yes, although there are traces of the older options.

Frankly, the LeCroy website is a bit of a mess when it comes to the options. But the older WavePro 7k is similarly long as the current WavePro 7zi, a lot longer btw than what's listed on the WP7k(A) spec sheet  (I know, mine has almost all of the available options ;) ):

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=235986;image)


BTW, the WP7k can do up to four decodes in parallel.

Quote
How does that decode stuff usually work? You only get an option key from LeCroy, or do you also have to install some additional Software?

No, you give them the scope s/n and the scope ID, and they give you a software key in a similar format as a typical Windows Product Key.

All the software is in the LeCroy X-Stream package. There's no need to install any extra software.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on June 26, 2016, 03:20:18 pm
Nice Screenshot  :o What is the menu path to show that screen? Means which menu do i have to open if i have some of these options installed?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 26, 2016, 04:50:09 pm
Nice Screenshot  :o What is the menu path to show that screen? Means which menu do i have to open if i have some of these options installed?

Top menu: 'Analysis' -> 'Serial Decode...'
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 26, 2016, 05:52:48 pm
It's very rare for a DDA to come with much else than the disk drive analysis package, and at I'm not sure they were even offered for them as DDAs were really special purpose scopes.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: AudioplatinumService on June 28, 2016, 09:59:48 pm
Awesome work! Now you have really "open" scope  ;)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Simon on July 14, 2016, 06:46:46 pm
I'm getting reports from a user who seems to claim they represent Lecroy objecting to the posting of material that contravenes their terms and conditions. Please can people check what they are posting make sure they are not posting anything that contravenes legal agreements they have signed up to by buying any equipment. I'm not sure where we stand by law but I think users would be directly responsible for what they post although we have our part in taking down any illegal material as and when we are notified of it I would assume not being in possession of a rulebook or being a legal expert.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on July 14, 2016, 11:00:28 pm
This is quite interesting. So what you are saying that when buying a piece of equipment I am signing a legal agreement? What about second hand market then? Isn't all that just US/DMCA thing?

I'll be looking for a more performant (than DS1054Z), preferably windows, used scope in a couple of months and this thread got me intrigued on WP7300A. Some time ago I had ScopeStation LS140, huge old MS-DOS beast, not very impressive specs by today's standards but I really liked the UI and the math. If LeCroy is putting a gag order then WP7300A won't be so valuable and I'll have to look elsewhere (e.g. TDS7104 or similar).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on July 15, 2016, 05:40:54 am
This is quite interesting. So what you are saying that when buying a piece of equipment I am signing a legal agreement? What about second hand market then? Isn't all that just US/DMCA thing?

This licensing thing and the validity of shrink-wrap licenses originated in the US, but over time this has been transformed into similar laws in other countries. In the EU, if you bought a scope then your only contract is with the seller, not with the manufacturer, and unless the seller has made them part of the contract (and explicitly highlighted them to you!) then EULA's or other terms and conditions of the manufacturer are invalid.

So it pretty much depends on where you are.

Having said that, if you then download a software update (i.e. a firmware update from the LeCroy website) you might have to agree to certain licensing terms, and unless these terms contradict current law in your country they become a valid agreement between you and the manufacturer, for that software you just downloaded.

Quote
I'll be looking for a more performant (than DS1054Z), preferably windows, used scope in a couple of months and this thread got me intrigued on WP7300A. Some time ago I had ScopeStation LS140, huge old MS-DOS beast, not very impressive specs by today's standards but I really liked the UI and the math. If LeCroy is putting a gag order then WP7300A won't be so valuable and I'll have to look elsewhere (e.g. TDS7104 or similar).

You can expect pretty much any big brand to make a fuss when details about their software key system for their current scopes get out (i.e. being able to generate codes, not just enabling options by permanently enabling trials). Keysight would probably send a lawyer attack squad if the code generation for current Infiniiums became public knowledge. How much of a legal standing they have is doubtful (especially outside the US), but you can be sure they would at least put their weight in the ring to dissuade attempts to make details about their software protection scheme public. Of course the point still stands that is someone can easily figure out how the key system works then others will, too, so becoming overly threatening is probably counter-productive for a manufacturer. Which I guess they know.

But a TDS7104, really?  Even without the ability to hack the WP7300A it is a much better scope. The TDS7k is slow, it only has a subset of the WavePro's functionality, and the options can't hold a candle against the ones for the WavePro. The TDS7k(B) is a typical ASIC architecture based on a weak processing platform (P3 Celeron 850MHz), and it's stuck with Windows 2000 where the WavePro 7kA runs XP which works with a lot more newer software (and the older WavePro 7k non-A which came out with W2k can easily be upgraded to XP, fully supported by LeCroy).

Oh, and the last firmware upgrade for the WavePro 7k(A) is dated 10 May 2016. The last firmware update for the TDS7kB is from 2005. Go figure.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Simon on July 15, 2016, 06:26:48 am
I'm only saying what is going on, if you think you are in the right go right ahead. I'm still waiting for the zero poster user who signed up to provide some credentials as to who they are. However it goes without saying that was is put on here stays forever.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on July 15, 2016, 07:09:12 am
I'm only saying what is going on, if you think you are in the right go right ahead. I'm still waiting for the zero poster user who signed up to provide some credentials as to who they are. However it goes without saying that was is put on here stays forever.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, just pointing out that the legal situation depends on where you're located.

Obviously for a public forum like this there's a lot more to consider, i.e. that everything posted here can and is read in other countries where some content might be illegal while where the poster lives its perfectly legal, so it's understandable you have to be on the cautious side. And you're right reminding that stuff that has been posted here stays here.

However, I can't see that anything incriminating has been posted, i.e. no methods, no descriptions, just a statement of some users that they somehow managed to hack the software options.

If that poster really turned out to be from LeCroy, maybe he can be convinced that engagement with the users here on a friendly basis is the best way forward?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on July 15, 2016, 09:49:55 am
You can expect pretty much any big brand to make a fuss when details about their software key system for their current scopes get out (i.e. being able to generate codes, not just enabling options by permanently enabling trials). Keysight would probably send a lawyer attack squad if the code generation for current Infiniiums became public knowledge. How much of a legal standing they have is doubtful (especially outside the US), but you can be sure they would at least put their weight in the ring to dissuade attempts to make details about their software protection scheme public. Of course the point still stands that is someone can easily figure out how the key system works then others will, too, so becoming overly threatening is probably counter-productive for a manufacturer. Which I guess they know.

You are right, but I always had the impression that manufacturers turn the blind eye if such hacking is for personal/hobbyist use (or for Rigol this is even marketing strategy :P). Hence plenty of threads on this forum on Tek's internal GPIB commands, options EEPROMs, Agilent's binary exe patches or USB booting etc. I wouldn't encourage such tricks in commercial environment and I doubt many people would. As a company you buy new scope, options and then expect good warranty and support.

But a TDS7104, really?  Even without the ability to hack the WP7300A it is a much better scope. The TDS7k is slow, it only has a subset of the WavePro's functionality, and the options can't hold a candle against the ones for the WavePro. The TDS7k(B) is a typical ASIC architecture based on a weak processing platform (P3 Celeron 850MHz), and it's stuck with Windows 2000 where the WavePro 7kA runs XP which works with a lot more newer software (and the older WavePro 7k non-A which came out with W2k can easily be upgraded to XP, fully supported by LeCroy).

Oh, and the last firmware upgrade for the WavePro 7k(A) is dated 10 May 2016. The last firmware update for the TDS7kB is from 2005. Go figure.

I know, that is why I got interested in LeCroy, they seemed to know the benefits of good PC platform integration in the scope early on (even the old MS-DOS ScopeStation). With dxl's fixed driver it might be even possible to upgrade the motherboard (to some i3/i5), as long as it has PCI slot (or maybe PCIe to PCI adapter) for the interfacing card, right? TDS7k is obviously not that good, has the custom motherboard (nasty) but often can be had really cheap on the second hand market. I was also looking at Agilent, things like 54845A, but in tradition with other Agilent scopes it has laughable amounts of memory.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on July 15, 2016, 11:03:51 am
You are right, but I always had the impression that manufacturers turn the blind eye if such hacking is for personal/hobbyist use (or for Rigol this is even marketing strategy :P). Hence plenty of threads on this forum on Tek's internal GPIB commands, options EEPROMs, Agilent's binary exe patches or USB booting etc.

The difference is that, at least for brand name kit, these discussions revolve around circumventing the option code protection - which usually means you have to modify the scope or its software (i.e. patching). It didn't include uncovering the system of option keys so that they can be generated yourself, like it was done with the Rigol.

Leaving Rigol aside, I guess the big manufacturers see it different than if you crack their key generation system.

Now if you buy an older Agilent scope (i.e. DSO8k) then the key system is different than for modern scopes. Keysight also no longer sells option keys, so I guess they care little for what people do with these old scopes. However, the key system used on the LeCroy WavePro 7k is the same as for its current scopes, so to some extend they are worried that the information get out in the open.

But then the question is if one user can decipher the key in very short time, can the key system really be considered to be adequately secure?

Quote
I wouldn't encourage such tricks in commercial environment and I doubt many people would. As a company you buy new scope, options and then expect good warranty and support.

It's unlikely to work for businesses anyways as the manufacturers have records as to which scope comes with which options so they'd quickly find out if a hacked scope was sent in for repair/calibration.

Also, especially commercial buyers regularly get options thrown in/for free when buying kit anyways.

These hacks are really only interesting for hobbyists.

[TDS7104]

Quote
I know, that is why I got interested in LeCroy, they seemed to know the benefits of good PC platform integration in the scope early on (even the old MS-DOS ScopeStation). With dxl's fixed driver it might be even possible to upgrade the motherboard (to some i3/i5), as long as it has PCI slot (or maybe PCIe to PCI adapter) for the interfacing card, right?

In principle, yes. Although I'm not sure how much benefit is there in upgrading the mainboard, as once you upgrade the CPU to a 3.2+GHz Pentium4 (which can be had for a few bucks these days) there is little improvement in performance. And even less so when dxl's front panel driver makes it possible to enable HyperThreading.

Quote
TDS7k is obviously not that good, has the custom motherboard (nasty) but often can be had really cheap on the second hand market.

Cheap, I don't know, the ones I saw did fetch much more than I'd be willing to pay for such a scope.

Quote
I was also looking at Agilent, things like 54845A, but in tradition with other Agilent scopes it has laughable amounts of memory.

Not all of the old Infiniiums (548xx, DSO8k/80k) have so little memory, some go to 128MB. However, often there are limitations re sample size and sample rate, i.e. the DSO80k that sample at 20/40GSa/s can only use full memory at below 2GSa/s (above that the memory shrinks to a few hundred kpts)  :palm:

Also, the older 54800s weren't exactly reliable, especially the ones running Win9x. They also have a painfully slow, crude architecture using two graphics adapters employing hardware overlay. The UI is also pretty cramped on the low resolution (640x480) display, and only basic functions can be used without a mouse connected. The DSO8000/80000 Series is much better, as it has an improved architecture, doing away with the crude hardware mixing with two graphics adapters, and the internal display is now an XGA (1024x768) touch screen which means most functions can be used without keyboard and mouse. And the UI itself is pretty horrible, and shows that it has been designed for keyboard and mouse and not touch control.

If you want an Agilent scope that is comparable to the WavePro then you should look at the DSO9k Infiniiums, which is the first proper Windows scope Agilent came up with.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on July 27, 2016, 01:23:41 pm


I personnally did an upgrade of a WaveRunner 6050 (non A), with a Kontron board that has an LVDS connector for the display, I bought an LVDS cable, replaced the display with one with a LED backlight, and the right connector, and that works great...  (excepted that I had to solder an inverter in between for the backlight intensity, which was reversed by default... some Kontron boards have BIOS settings to change that, mine didn't...)

I also tried several mainboards (up to Q77 chipset), but I ran into problems with the USB controller... the frontpanel is connected via USB, but ALL Intel chipset > 4 do NOT recognize the frontpanel USB chips.
The Q45 chipset was the most recent one that worked without problems...

Regarding the compatibility of the drivers with multi-CPUs... difficult to say... I can only say I had some (rare) 'freezes' with my Quad-Core CPU (Q9100), but nothing that would made me go back to a less powerful one...  compared to the previous Pentium 4, it's a rocket !! (it boots on an Intel Sata SSD as well).

I also had some graphics issues, in particular with the 3D display mode... but these went away with the upgrade to Windows 7...

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on July 27, 2016, 02:33:59 pm
I personnally did an upgrade of a WaveRunner 6050 (non A), with a Kontron board that has an LVDS connector for the display, I bought an LVDS cable, replaced the display with one with a LED backlight, and the right connector, and that works great...  (excepted that I had to solder an inverter in between for the backlight intensity, which was reversed by default... some Kontron boards have BIOS settings to change that, mine didn't...)

Hmm, I guess I should have a look into Kontron boards. I'm still contemplating if I should upgrade the board in my WavePro 7300A or not. If there was a simple plug and play alternative that doesn't involve modifying any of the WavePro's original components (so it could be put back into original condition if required) then this would make an upgrade much more attractive.

Quote
I also tried several mainboards (up to Q77 chipset), but I ran into problems with the USB controller... the frontpanel is connected via USB, but ALL Intel chipset > 4 do NOT recognize the frontpanel USB chips.
The Q45 chipset was the most recent one that worked without problems...

I have head that the USB controller in the front panel can be difficult (if I remember right this was because the controller only speaks USB 1.0 which some of the newer controllers have difficulties with, but that's from memory).

Thanksfully (or sadly, depending how you see it) the front panel of the WavePro is connected via I2C, so it shouldn't be dependent on the mobo chipset.

Quote
Regarding the compatibility of the drivers with multi-CPUs... difficult to say... I can only say I had some (rare) 'freezes' with my Quad-Core CPU (Q9100), but nothing that would made me go back to a less powerful one...  compared to the previous Pentium 4, it's a rocket !!

The multiprocessor issue only exists on the WavePro 7k(A) (and the derived DDA and SDA), and not on any other LeCroy scope including the WR6k. And the issue is actually "only" with the driver for the front panel.

Quote
(it boots on an Intel Sata SSD as well).

Mine also has an intel SSD (530 Series), for which intel has provided a nice Trim utility that works on Windows XP.

The difference between the slow 80GB EIDE drive the scope came with and the SSD (connected to the mobo's SATA150 port) is like day and night.

Quote
I also had some graphics issues, in particular with the 3D display mode... but these went away with the upgrade to Windows 7...

Wait, are you saying you managed to upgrade the OS on your WR6k from Windows 2000 or XP to Windows 7? If so, how?

I tried a few times to upgrade an XP based LeCroy scope to (32bit) Vista or Windows 7 but I always failed when the X-Stream software tried to initialize the scope and came up with "wrong platform" or a similar error message.

I'd love to upgrade my WavePro to say Vista (for which I have a few licenses).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on July 27, 2016, 03:42:35 pm


To be totally honest, I didn't boot the WR6K since quite a while...   I have an MSO3054 from Tek, which I love as well (although going to sell it...), and that takes much less space on my desk...

I'll try to boot the beast and let you know...   I'm not even sure in what exact state (i.e. OS version) I left it...  I know I had W7, but indeed, I think I had to go through Vista to do that... and I even had Windows 8.0 running at a given moment...

Btw, I also replaced ALL internal fans with those from Noctua... it's not as quiet as the Tek, but still a LLLOOOOOOOOT  quiter that originally...

Regards
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on August 08, 2016, 12:13:16 pm
Just to add an update on my memory depth problem (Memory works only up to 1MS/s, larger sizes show missing data in the traces): After changing the two SRAMs on the PCI cards i didn't encounter the Problem again during the last weeks. But i guess if the problem is still there, it will show up right after posting this ;)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 14, 2017, 06:08:00 am
"Upgraded" WP7K1 to 1024x768 XGA LCD panel with LED backlight. Touchscreen is still a 4 wire resistive type, so the same TS serial driver works and TS can be turned on/off or calibrated from LeCroy X-Stream application. Backlight intensity is controlled from X-Stream application as well the same way as it was with the original fluorescent bulb backlight. Front panel seems to work fine with Sven's driver.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 17, 2017, 10:29:06 pm
I did it last year. Install NL10276BC20-04 matrix instead of the original (NL8060BC26-17) is a very simple task. To do this lvds board 1024x768 30-pin scaler can be bought in China, but I prefer to to take out from the old monitor 15 ", which is sold for only $ 3-5.
So in the photo below you can see an example a more radical modernization. This mode 2048x1536 LCD matrix LTN097QL01 iPad Retina 9.7 ", which can also easily be installed inside oscilloscope instead of the original 10.7" NEC 800x600.
It is connected via DP (DisplayPort) interface and a discrete graphics card Radeon HD 6450.

I also last summer replaced the original motherboard WP 7300A to LGA1150, and processor Intel® Core ™ i3-4350, 3.6 MHz x 2 (4 HT). I spent a number of tests: it works faster than ever, and in some situations (in case of large number of computations) the waveform update faster to 4 times.

https://youtu.be/a_AFU8b6rm8 (https://youtu.be/a_AFU8b6rm8)

(http://i057.radikal.ru/1701/9e/c985e6882c04t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/fp/uxz6gepzla6l2)
(http://s12.radikal.ru/i185/1701/ad/a02f440625a4t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/fp/ymwj6rxfptu6w)
(http://s018.radikal.ru/i524/1701/d9/fee23950184ct.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/fp/hvgf9k51rna13)
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i715/1701/9f/658e48f52130t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/fp/dsbixmz95v15u)
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i719/1702/2c/108a8b3f8e7at.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/rkqeuqw15nvqx)
(http://s016.radikal.ru/i336/1702/7a/8a4f2589d9c0t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/lrrcoc815lnhr)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 22, 2017, 09:59:36 am
Sounds interesting - where did you take the connector for the ipad display from? Is that a standard part, or did you take it from an ipad? (Also wondering whether you can read the font at that resolution?)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 23, 2017, 03:44:29 am
Sounds interesting - where did you take the connector for the ipad display from? Is that a standard part, or did you take it from an ipad?
I use the DP-Adapter. Such PCBs are sold in China for $ 50-60, but I found the best quality in Japan for $ 31: http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=47 (http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=47)

It looks like it has only 2 connectors for the DP and the voltage converter for LED-backlight matrix from 5 V USB.
However, in the USB enabled signal pair, so that brightness possibly controlled by the driver from the system.
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i620/1702/23/a9d1d0906960t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/n86w78smtvf0x)

Display Tablet 9.7 "can be successfully installed in the oscilloscope, assembled with its front frame, which will fill the missing space at the edges up to 10.4"
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i600/1702/76/d3499d102f9at.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/0ord80agre72q)

(http://s011.radikal.ru/i315/1702/b8/5d16b78d46aat.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/q66toz69439ri)

As a touchscreen, you can also keep the original glass capacitive from the  tablet, if you buy a universal capacitive touchscreen USB adapter, which can be found on the Internet.

Quote
(Also wondering whether you can read the font at that resolution?)
Yes you are right. The font looks too small. This makes it inconvenient to read. But if you wish, at any time you have the opportunity to switch to a lower resolution Windows multiple of two (1024x768). In this case, you do not suffer from interpolation and get all the same clear boundaries.
At the same time, if you need to put on the screen the maximum of information, for example to distribute the screen a large number of graphs, the maximum screen resolution and minimizing fonts give you benefits. "Retina" also has unmatched contrast, black levels and viewing angles.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on February 23, 2017, 03:43:52 pm
Just to be clear: the oscilloscope software supports other resolutions than 1024x768 for displaying waveforms?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 23, 2017, 04:07:13 pm
Just to be clear: the oscilloscope software supports other resolutions than 1024x768 for displaying waveforms?
There are no restrictions. It works the same way as if you connect an external a high resolution monitor to oscilloscope LeCroy in the socket on the back of the device.  And that envisaged a specification. When you select the new resolution in Windows, X-Stream app automatically uses this permission settings. In video provided above you can see how the 2048x1536, and there is no unwanted interpolation.
The amount of information retrieved 8-bit ADC of course limited to the construction of oscillograms high resolution. But maybe one day you have to watch a lot of oscillograms and many digits on the same screen. Then the insufficient resolution of the matrix will spoil the signal due to the significant quantization.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 23, 2017, 05:03:45 pm
...
I also last summer replaced the original motherboard WP 7300A to LGA1150, and processor Intel® Core ™ i3-4350, 3.6 MHz x 2 (4 HT). I spent a number of tests: it works faster than ever, and in some situations (in case of large number of computations) the waveform update faster to 4 times.
...

I think 2 cores running @ 3.6GHz like i3-4350 you are using could be a better choice than 4 cores @ 3.4GHz I have in mine. I went with i7-2600, but I can see that XStream doesn't really do much parallel processing in persistent visualization mode (and especially in 3D mode which is very CPU intensive). I'm quite new to WavePro and XStream, but if I knew that before, I probably would go with i3 CPU. Might now take a look at overclocking.

What kind of CPU load do you see when you use 3D mode like the one you demo in your youtube video? On my WP7K1 with Intel i7-2600 I'm able to bring one of the cores to 100% and it slows down the visuals. I'm curious if it's really CPU-bound or the graphic chip is a culprit?  I'm still using Intel HD graphic chip integrated on the CPU...

-albertr


Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 23, 2017, 05:22:05 pm
I also had an external DVI display connected to my LeCroy and the software was working fine with 1600x1200 resolution.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 23, 2017, 05:42:19 pm
And multimonitor setup (if supported by the graphic driver) works fine with XStream. I have hi-res external monitor connected via DVI port sometimes too, and I have two monitors set up side by side and can start XStream on either of them. Works beautifully.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 23, 2017, 06:14:49 pm
...
I also last summer replaced the original motherboard WP 7300A to LGA1150, and processor Intel® Core ™ i3-4350, 3.6 MHz x 2 (4 HT). I spent a number of tests: it works faster than ever, and in some situations (in case of large number of computations) the waveform update faster to 4 times.
...

I think 2 cores running @ 3.6GHz like i3-4350 you are using could be a better choice than 4 cores @ 3.4GHz I have in mine. I went with i7-2600, but I can see that XStream doesn't really do much parallel processing in persistent visualization mode (and especially in 3D mode which is very CPU intensive). I'm quite new to WavePro and XStream, but if I knew that before, I probably would go with i3 CPU. Might have to take a look at overclocking too.

-albertr
Yeah, right. Enough to have a 1-2 core with a maximum operating frequency and a modern, efficient pipelines.
The most optimal, probably should be a platform:

Motherboard LGA1156, i5-680 processor (3.6 GHz);
LGA1155, processor i3-3250 (3,5 GHz);
LGA1150, processor i3-4370 (3,8 GHz)

It is important that in the micro ATX motherboard remained 1-2 PCI slot.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on February 23, 2017, 06:31:11 pm
It is important that in the micro ATX motherboard remained 1-2 PCI slot.

What about PCIe to PCI adapters? Will it work? (let's ignore possible mechanical problems) This could enable much more modern HW.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 23, 2017, 07:05:00 pm
These oscilloscopes are using original technology LeCroy XStream is protected by several patents.
The distinguishing feature of this architecture is that signal processing is implemented software-hardware method, as opposed to a purely hardware used Tektronix et al. But by creating special microcode being loaded into the cache of the first processor level and process information on the clock frequency of the processor (without resorting to RAM) achieved an amazing performance of the system, competing with purely hardware implementation, and sometimes outstripping the last (example in comparison with the TDS7104).
When carried out in the same manner and advanced measurement and mathematical functions, it becomes clear why the "mathematics" has no equal LeCroy.
But this means that the performance of the processor pipelines plays a crucial role, in contrast to other architectures, where the processor is only used for GUI.

Of course, all the advantages of this architecture is particularly pronounced in the case of measurement, statistics, FFT and other functions and operating with a large memory depth of the captured signal. However, in the graph you can see that even the most trivial task to display a small amount of signal, was accelerated (for example, from 4.41 ms to 3.16 ms, in mode 1 ns / div). It is interpolated by the sine.

Interpolation sin x/x:
(http://s018.radikal.ru/i511/1702/21/0e13c9d40fd1t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/ffazgn47obnae)

(http://s020.radikal.ru/i710/1702/f0/7104ad00414at.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/2qicfv1s3ougz)

Several smaller increment in case of linear interpolation (I quote below a table with the results of comparative tests with linear interpolation).

Linear interpolation:
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i708/1702/6d/6ef8a9a58ce6t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/ss1j96tdyl108)

(http://s41.radikal.ru/i094/1702/de/95d06dcbe6act.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/1zkvflzadjcnk)

Especially significant speed boost in the capture of signals with deep load fastest memory (10 MB) and computational operations (in the table below: measurement period, the measurement period + track).

MODES with measurements:
(http://s008.radikal.ru/i304/1702/b3/18d3ae6362f6t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/n59m5g2ormi8b)

All tests was used the signal from the output of the calibration of the oscilloscope: meander, 1 B, 1 MHz.
Compared parameters - waveform update rate, which was controlled by the frequency of restarting the oscilloscope trigger.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 23, 2017, 07:15:21 pm
It is important that in the micro ATX motherboard remained 1-2 PCI slot.

What about PCIe to PCI adapters? Will it work? (let's ignore possible mechanical problems) This could enable much more modern HW.
It is necessary to try. I think that when correct installation of PCI-bridge drivers, problems do not should arise with XStream.
Just do not use these adapters, which as an intermediate line used USB-interface.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 23, 2017, 09:24:17 pm
YES! Got drivers running on Windows7! It requires a few changes to the inf files, i'll bundle something for the people interested here later.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 23, 2017, 09:33:13 pm
Nice! Looking forward to see your changes! I assume your FP driver does work as well?

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 23, 2017, 09:41:31 pm
Testing my Frontpanel driver at the Moment. Just noticed that in the screenshot it says 'SDA3010' which seems wrong. Let's see whether everything is working as it should...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 23, 2017, 09:46:59 pm
Have to resize partitions first - 20G is just not enough for Windows 7...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 23, 2017, 09:54:10 pm
As I understand you want Windows 7 to force to work in your device? It was great because I had no success so far.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 23, 2017, 10:52:27 pm
One interesting note i learned about calibration data:

I had 20G drive C:, and 20G userdata (which contains the calibration data). The userdata partition was contained in a logical partition. Just moving the partition content to a primary partition with dd on linux made the software complain that the calibration data was moved.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 23, 2017, 11:47:09 pm
Yes, it is a known fact. Just under any manipulation of system disk is definitely worth preserving actual structure and the path to the folder in the original logical drive.
I am the first day, has retained disk images, since I do not know how it is possible to re-calibrate at home.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 24, 2017, 01:13:03 am
...made the software complain that the calibration data was moved.

Sven, are you getting the same message about re-calibrating the scope as on the attached screenshot? Let me know if you can figure it out... I'm still struggling with mine.

As far as FP driver goes,  I've noticed that XStream complains about the missing driver version. It might be pure cosmetic and probably doesn't affect its functionality, but maybe you can consider adding VERSIONINFO resource to the driver?

Code: [Select]
bash-3.2$ strings FrontPanel.mauiLog  | sort | uniq
CFrontPanelServer::Front Panel Version Number invalid: 0x0
Failed to reset the front panel controler
FrontPanel
FrontPanel CMFP414PCIAladdinDrv
MFP Reset Failed
MFP version number failed
MLOG
bash-3.2$

Whatever you decide, keep up your great work, it's much appreciated!

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 24, 2017, 03:03:53 am

... What kind of CPU load do you see when you use 3D mode like the one you demo in your youtube video? On my WP7K1 with Intel i7-2600 I'm able to bring one of the cores to 100% and it slows down the visuals. I'm curious if it's really CPU-bound or the graphic chip is a culprit?  I'm still using Intel HD graphic chip integrated on the CPU...

-albertr

I'll check later. But I think the problem may also be insufficient bandwidth lines Gigabit Ethernet and expansion slots PCI 2.0 (33 MHz), connecting the motherboard CPU to the  Acquisition Board in the system X-Stream v.1. PCI-slot is the bottleneck.

I noticed that the "interface card LeCroy" has a universal PCI-slot, with two types of slits. It is usually made to be compatible with both PCI standards - 5V / 33MHz and 3.3V / 66MHz. Bandwidth the first type - 133 Mb/s, while the second - 266 Mb/s. Since the manufacturer LeCroy supplied with their devices motherboard i845 and  i865, which having probably only 33 MHz bus, they could not just tell about the possibility of working an interface card at a frequency of 66 MHz.
Someone could test it?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 24, 2017, 07:51:07 am
Hi All,

i've added the driver for win7 to this post. There are a few things:

- Serial port for Touchscreen isn't working - will fix that during the weekend, inf file needs to be adjusted
- It will no longer be installed with the AladdinDriverInstaller.exe, as this fails on win7

- Fire up device manager
- Check View->Show Hidden Devices
- Uninstall all lecroy drivers on win7, make sure to check the 'delete driver' checkbox in the uninstall device confirmation.
- after that, you will see a Unidentified device after reboot/rescan
- right click, update driver -> select directory with the extracted zip file
- install driver
- it should automatically install all the other drivers (FrontPanel, I2C, Acquisition, etc). If not, install them as legacy driver by right clicking the computer name on top of the tree.

Hope these quick instructions help.

For the Technically interested, here's the reason why the driver doesn't work on Win7:

The LeCroy PCI card is actually a Multifunction device, but has only one memory range/interrupt which will be shared between drivers. This is done on Windows version <= Windows XP by adding a 'ResourceMap' Entry to the pci card driver inf file. LeCroy installs a filter driver 'LeCAladdinMFResfilter.sys' which fills out the memory ranges that each child driver uses. However, that doesn't seem to work on Windows 7 anymore.

Instead, starting with Windows XP there's  a new inf directive: 'VaryingResourceMap' which we need here. So we have to get rid of the filter driver, and specify the resources for each driver in the pci card inf file with Varying ResourceMap:

before:

Code: [Select]
HKR, LecDevParPort,HardwareID,,MF\ALADDIN_PARPORT_DEV
HKR, LecDevParPort,ResourceMap,1,00
HKR, AladdinFanControllerDrv,HardwareID,,MF\ALADDIN_FAN_CONTROLLER_DEV
HKR, AladdinFanControllerDrv,ResourceMap,1
HKR, I2CDrv,HardwareID,,MF\I2C_DEV
HKR, I2CDrv,ResourceMap,1, 00, 06
HKR, AladdinFrontPanelDrv,HardwareID,,MF\ALADDIN_FRONTPANEL_DEV
HKR, AladdinFrontPanelDrv,ResourceMap,1, 00
HKR, YLecDevAladdinSuperIO, HardwareID,,  MF\ALADDIN_SUPERIO_DEV   ;lpc
HKR, YLecDevAladdinSuperIO, ResourceMap, 1, 00, 06
HKR, ZAladdinAcquisition, HardwareID,,  MF\ALADDIN_AQUISITION_DEV  ;acquisition
HKR, ZAladdinAcquisition, ResourceMap, 1, 04, 06

After modification:

Code: [Select]
HKR, LecDevParPort,HardwareID,,MF\ALADDIN_PARPORT_DEV
HKR, LecDevParPort,VaryingResourceMap,1,00, 70, 01, 00, 00, 04, 00, 00, 00
HKR, AladdinFanControllerDrv,HardwareID,,MF\ALADDIN_FAN_CONTROLLER_DEV
HKR, AladdinFanControllerDrv,VaryingResourceMap,1,00,80,01,00,00,01,00,00,00
HKR, I2CDrv,HardwareID,,MF\I2C_DEV
HKR, I2CDrv,VaryingResourceMap,1, 00, f0, 01, 00, 00, 10, 00, 00, 00
HKR, I2CDrv, ResourceMap, 1, 06
HKR, AladdinFrontPanelDrv,HardwareID,,MF\ALADDIN_FRONTPANEL_DEV
HKR, AladdinFrontPanelDrv,VaryingResourceMap,1, 00, 0e, 01, 00, 00, 02, 00, 00, 00
HKR, YLecDevAladdinSuperIO, HardwareID,,  MF\ALADDIN_SUPERIO_DEV   ;lpc
HKR, YLecDevAladdinSuperIO, VaryingResourceMap, 1, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 01, 00, 00
HKR, YLecDevAladdinSuperIO, ResourceMap, 1, 06
HKR, ZAladdinAcquisition, HardwareID,,  MF\ALADDIN_AQUISITION_DEV  ;acquisition
HKR, ZAladdinAcquisition, ResourceMap, 1, 04, 06

And all the references for LeCroyMFResfilter.sys needs to be removed from the inf files.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 24, 2017, 08:18:13 am
...made the software complain that the calibration data was moved.

Sven, are you getting the same message about re-calibrating the scope as on the attached screenshot? Let me know if you can figure it out... I'm still struggling with mine.

As far as FP driver goes,  I've noticed that XStream complains about the missing driver version. It might be pure cosmetic and probably doesn't affect its functionality, but maybe you can consider adding VERSIONINFO resource to the driver?
Yes, got exactly the same message. I've now recreated the logical partition, and moved that to the end of the disk. So the position on the disk in terms of sectors doesn't matter, but the partition numbering does.
Quote
Code: [Select]
bash-3.2$ strings FrontPanel.mauiLog  | sort | uniq
CFrontPanelServer::Front Panel Version Number invalid: 0x0
Failed to reset the front panel controler
FrontPanel
FrontPanel CMFP414PCIAladdinDrv
MFP Reset Failed
MFP version number failed
MLOG
bash-3.2$

I think i've seen that as well one my scope, but didn't bothered as the driver works quite well for me (now since about 8 months). If i'm bored i'll look into that, but i would rather like to rewrite all the drivers so you can run it on 64 bit windows 7. But that would take some time.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 24, 2017, 08:20:07 am

... What kind of CPU load do you see when you use 3D mode like the one you demo in your youtube video? On my WP7K1 with Intel i7-2600 I'm able to bring one of the cores to 100% and it slows down the visuals. I'm curious if it's really CPU-bound or the graphic chip is a culprit?  I'm still using Intel HD graphic chip integrated on the CPU...

-albertr

I'll check later. But I think the problem may also be insufficient bandwidth lines Gigabit Ethernet and expansion slots PCI 2.0 (33 MHz), connecting the motherboard CPU to the  Acquisition Board in the system X-Stream v.1. PCI-slot is the bottleneck.

I noticed that the "interface card LeCroy" has a universal PCI-slot, with two types of slits. It is usually made to be compatible with both PCI standards - 5V / 33MHz and 3.3V / 66MHz. Bandwidth the first type - 133 Mb/s, while the second - 266 Mb/s. Since the manufacturer LeCroy supplied with their devices motherboard i845 and  i865, which having probably only 33 MHz bus, they could not just tell about the possibility of working an interface card at a frequency of 66 MHz.
Someone could test it?

FWIW, i'm using an Asus P8Q77 in my LeCroy, without any problems. Haven't done any graphic performance tests though.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 24, 2017, 11:51:12 am


i've added the driver for win7 to this post. There are a few things:

- Serial port for Touchscreen isn't working - will fix that during the weekend, inf file needs to be adjusted

That was quick! Thanks, Sven!

For a serial driver issue,  can any other serial port can be used instead? Isn't it a matter of reconnecting the serial pass-thru cable from LeCroy "DVI" card?

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 24, 2017, 11:55:17 am
Yes, got exactly the same message. I've now recreated the logical partition, and moved that to the end of the disk. So the position on the disk in terms of sectors doesn't matter, but the partition numbering does.

Ah... so does it have to be a second partition? Logical or physical - does it matter?

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 24, 2017, 11:59:31 am
I'm not sure whether it has to be on a logical partition. I would rather think that they store the partition location during calibration and so it can't be moved later.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 24, 2017, 02:19:41 pm
Hi All,

i've added the driver for win7 to this post. There are a few things..
Huge respect!

Quote
FWIW, i'm using an Asus P8Q77 in my LeCroy, without any problems. Haven't done any graphic performance tests though.
The manufacturer LeCroy declares that the old PCI bus 33 MHz is the bottleneck. Probably in 2001, they did not have other possibility to select a more suitable bus. And it can cause premature slowing of renovation oscillograms in the case of a large array of data (working with a large volume cache). Not by chance in X-Stream2 now uses PCI-e. I still have no way to check, I just wanted to set the controller in the slot of the server board (PCI 66 MHz, 3.3 V) to see if it will work.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 24, 2017, 02:49:46 pm


i've added the driver for win7 to this post. There are a few things:

- Serial port for Touchscreen isn't working - will fix that during the weekend, inf file needs to be adjusted

That was quick! Thanks, Sven!

For a serial driver issue,  can any other serial port can be used instead? Isn't it a matter of reconnecting the serial pass-thru cable from LeCroy "DVI" card?

-albertr
In fact,it is easy to replaced by usb universal card - controller for 4-pin resistive matrix. It costs $ 5
I physically lost one PCB in my unit (to which connected the original touchscreen), so I experienced Chinese product, and it works well. There Included is a driver for all operating systems.

https://youtu.be/b8R9OBGDLTM

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 24, 2017, 05:24:34 pm
I fixed the touchscreen issue. It's a matter of adding a *PNP0501 device to the inf file. Attached a new version.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 24, 2017, 10:53:08 pm
Used the Wavepro for a few hours now and haven't seen any problems with the drivers on windows 7. Hope it stays that way  8)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 24, 2017, 11:35:02 pm
Used the Wavepro for a few hours now and haven't seen any problems with the drivers on windows 7. Hope it stays that way  8)
Thank you for good news.
You have used the latest version X-Stream 8.1.0.1 with LeCroy site?(http://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=11 (http://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=11))
This software contains everything you need to install on pure operating system and the full functionality of your drivers (without upgrade pre-installed older versions Xstream)? Just someone who wrote that latest version of update does not contain some important parts required for a clean installation.
(If it had been possible to use Xstream64 8.0.1.2  ::) )
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 25, 2017, 04:40:16 am
I fixed the touchscreen issue. It's a matter of adding a *PNP0501 device to the inf file. Attached a new version.

Thanks, Sven! You rock!  :-+

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 25, 2017, 05:06:07 am
I'm not sure whether it has to be on a logical partition. I would rather think that they store the partition location during calibration and so it can't be moved later.

Sorry for keeping beating up the dead horse - but can you detail what did you do to fix this problem? I've just tried to move my calibration partition around, it's used to be the third physical partition, now it's the second one. The first physical partition is the boot partition with Win XP installed. Still getting the same error. Here's my partitions layout:

Code: [Select]
root@WP7K1:~# fdisk -l /dev/sda
Disk /dev/sda: 238.5 GiB, 256060514304 bytes, 500118192 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x00091b8b

Device     Boot     Start       End   Sectors  Size Id Type
/dev/sda1  *         2048 200706047 200704000 95.7G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda2       200706048 282628095  81922048 39.1G  b W95 FAT32
/dev/sda3       282628096 483332095 200704000 95.7G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda4       483332096 500117503  16785408    8G 83 Linux
root@WP7K1:~#

Is your calibration partition formatted as FAT32 or NTFS? Any help is greatly appreciated!

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 25, 2017, 05:30:35 pm
Well, it's rather interesting... I changed my calibration partition to be the second partition. Tried as both physical partition and as an extended partition. Formatted as either FAT32 or NTFS. Still getting the same error. Obviously, it's always mounted on drive D:\ and has "USERDATA" as a volume name. I have verified that XStream is reading and writing the config files to this filesystem. In fact, I can back up and restore the calibration data back using XStream "Critical files backup" procedure which is the official procedure to restore calibration data when changing the hard drive. I'm starting to suspect that it's going to be something else... what am I missing?

I've checked all XStream log files, and the only errors I see are the following ones from BoardTest log file:

Code: [Select]
0       2.25.2017  16:57:29     Informational   FeBTDC1 Read From Disk Image D:\Calibration\FeBTDC1.btd successful     
 1      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail20M*
 2      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail200M
 3      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail1G**
 4      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail3G**
 5      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail5G**
 6      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Improved_WM_FE**
 7      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   RelayClicks*****
 8      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Error   FeBTDC1 UnIdentified Structures !!      No of Identified structures        : 30
No of UnIdentified structures  : 7
 9      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail20M*
 10     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail200M
 11     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail1G**
 12     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail3G**
 13     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail5G**
 14     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Improved_WM_FE**
 15     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   RelayClicks*****
 16     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Error   FeBTDC1 UnIdentified Structures !!      No of Identified structures        : 30
No of UnIdentified structures  : 7
...

Can someone please check to see if you are getting the same error messages logged to D:\Logs\Boardtest.mauiLog file?

Here's my current partition layout with the calibration partition being on the extended partition:

Code: [Select]
DISKPART> list part

  Partition ###  Type              Size     Offset
  -------------  ----------------  -------  -------
  Partition 1    Primary             96 GB  1024 KB
  Partition 2    Extended            39 GB    96 GB
  Partition 3    Logical             39 GB    96 GB
  Partition 4    Primary             96 GB   135 GB
  Partition 5    Unknown              8 GB   230 GB

DISKPART>

Code: [Select]
Command (m for help): p
Disk /dev/sda: 238.5 GiB, 256060514304 bytes, 500118192 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x00091b8b

Device     Boot     Start       End   Sectors  Size Id Type
/dev/sda1  *         2048 200706047 200704000 95.7G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda2       200706048 282628095  81922048 39.1G  f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sda3       282628096 483332095 200704000 95.7G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda4       483332096 500117503  16785408    8G 83 Linux
/dev/sda5       200708096 282628095  81920000 39.1G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT

Partition table entries are not in disk order.

Command (m for help):

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 25, 2017, 07:21:44 pm
Used the Wavepro for a few hours now and haven't seen any problems with the drivers on windows 7. Hope it stays that way  8)
Thank you for good news.
You have used the latest version X-Stream 8.1.0.1 with LeCroy site?(http://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=11 (http://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=11))
This software contains everything you need to install on pure operating system and the full functionality of your drivers (without upgrade pre-installed older versions Xstream)? Just someone who wrote that latest version of update does not contain some important parts required for a clean installation.
(If it had been possible to use Xstream64 8.0.1.2  ::) )

Hi,

it should work to install a clean Win7, the XStream drivers afterwards, and than the LeCroy XStream 8.1 Release. However i didn't test this as i did all driver debugging/inf file rewriting on my scope, so i don't have a fresh copy of Win7. And i'm to lazy to erase the Win7 and reinstall everything again ;). So it would be nice if users report whether the package works for them or whether there are still some problems. Oh, and i'm using the XStream 8.1 32 bit software on my scope.

I also noted that i didn't put my version of the frontpanel driver in the last zip, so here's another one ;)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 25, 2017, 07:45:13 pm
Well, it's rather interesting... I changed my calibration partition to be the second partition. Tried as both physical partition and as an extended partition. Formatted as either FAT32 or NTFS. Still getting the same error. Obviously, it's always mounted on drive D:\ and has "USERDATA" as a volume name. I have verified that XStream is reading and writing the config files to this filesystem. In fact, I can back up and restore the calibration data back using XStream "Critical files backup" procedure which is the official procedure to restore calibration data when changing hard drive. I'm starting to suspect that it's going to be something else... what am I missing?

I've checked all XStream log files, and the only errors I see are the following ones from BoardTest log file:

Code: [Select]
0       2.25.2017  16:57:29     Informational   FeBTDC1 Read From Disk Image D:\Calibration\FeBTDC1.btd successful     
 1      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail20M*
 2      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail200M
 3      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail1G**
 4      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail3G**
 5      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail5G**
 6      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Improved_WM_FE**
 7      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   RelayClicks*****
 8      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Error   FeBTDC1 UnIdentified Structures !!      No of Identified structures        : 30
No of UnIdentified structures  : 7
 9      2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail20M*
 10     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail200M
 11     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail1G**
 12     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail3G**
 13     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Thermal_Tail5G**
 14     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   Improved_WM_FE**
 15     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Warning FeBTDC1:UpdateBtdInEEpromFromEEprom     Board Test Structure not Identified!!   RelayClicks*****
 16     2.25.2017  16:57:29     Error   FeBTDC1 UnIdentified Structures !!      No of Identified structures        : 30
No of UnIdentified structures  : 7
...

Can someone please check to see if you are getting the same error messages logged to D:\Logs\Boardtest.mauiLog file?

I've seen them on my scope before, but right it doesn't show them. So i guess they only appear if the caldata is invalid. In which Tab of the Log files do you see that log?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: joeqsmith on February 25, 2017, 07:54:08 pm
 :-+
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 25, 2017, 09:15:24 pm
Quote
I've seen them on my scope before, but right it doesn't show them. So i guess they only appear if the caldata is invalid. In which Tab of the Log files do you see that log?

It's Utilities->Service->Production->Show all logs->Boardtest tab or you can access it directly as D:\Logs\Boardtest.mauiLog file.

Sven, thank you very much for your work on Windows 7 support!  :-+ I'm happy to report that it works beautifully on my WP7K1 (non "A" model) just as you described. Better yet, my high CPU load problem in "3D" persistence mode under Win XP is totally gone under Win 7! I guess the Intel HD graphic drivers in Win XP might be the ones to blame for high CPU usage? Anyways, if I was working for LeCroy, I would hire you without hesitation for for all your work you did to make these fine scopes even better. I hope someone from LeCroy is reading this forum and taking notes  8)

Also, my calibration issue is somehow resolved after installing XStream under Windows 7. I'm using the same calibration partition mounted as "D:\" drive in both Win XP and Win 7, but after installing XStream software under Win 7, I'm not seeing this error any more. If I re-boot back into Win XP, the error comes back. Weird... I guess during XStream installation they store calibration partition info somewhere? If anyone wants to look further into it, I'm attaching my Boardtest logs below...

Anyways, now with Sven's wonderful work on Windows 7 support, I'm not looking back to Win XP.  Bye-bye XP, welcome Win 7!  :-+

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 25, 2017, 09:21:57 pm
Glad to hear that Windows 7 works for you and the calibration issue is resolved :). Now if anyone feels like stepping into a new adventure, he can install Windows 8  >:D
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 25, 2017, 09:33:52 pm
...
I also had some graphics issues, in particular with the 3D display mode... but these went away with the upgrade to Windows 7...

Ah just noticed that old post from darkstar49... He's using WR6050, but I guess it could be the same issue with Intel HD graphic under Win XP?

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 25, 2017, 11:51:58 pm
...
I also had some graphics issues, in particular with the 3D display mode... but these went away with the upgrade to Windows 7...

Ah just noticed that old post from darkstar49... He's using WR6050, but I guess it could be same issue with Intel HD graphic under Win XP?

-albertr

And why you did not use the opportunity to apply discrete graphics cards that have never had a problem with the drivers? In addition, there are much easier to connect internal display in the additional connector low-profile graphics card.
In attachment the example of upgrading my generator LeCroy LW420A
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 26, 2017, 02:21:48 am
Well, it looks like the Intel HD graphic performance issue is isolated to Windows XP and has been already addressed in Win 7, so it's not an issue anymore...  ::)

PCI-e graphic card is definitely an option, do you know of any card that has both LVDS and DVI (or DP) output ports?

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 26, 2017, 04:01:10 am
PCI-e graphic card is definitely an option, do you know of any card that has both LVDS and DVI (or DP) output ports?
Sir, you never need to search "lvds" on the graphics card or motherboard. lvds-serial differential signal usually form discrete modules "LCD Controller" (scaler). In these at the input signal VGA (D-Sub 15) or DVI, and the output you get a 6-bit or 8-bit (or 2 ? 6 bits) LVDS-signal, or a parallel TTL-signal format for older models LCD-matrix . You can easily buy them separately: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=VGA+LCD+Controller&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=VGA+LCD+Controller&_sacat=0)
The same modules you can see inside any external monitor. I about it wrote earlier that I use scaler-modules from old monitors 15 "1024x768. Resolution format scaler and LVDS-connector the PIN-format should sootvetsvovat your matrix. But there are also universal scalers, where you can set the desired resolution using the jumpers, or change the firmware ROM.
For modern DP LCD-matrix scalers-module is not needed. Enough to buy a graphics card with the DP-output and adapter for ribbon cable matrix.

Was once I had a problem to set in the old logic analyzer Tektronix TLA704 more modern LCD-matrix LTM10C348F - 10,4 "800x600 from the laptop Fujitsu LIFEBOOK B2154 (generally I also replaced the motherboard from there TLA721, thus completely converting TLA704 to TLA715).
The problem is that the video system was built with a parallel TTL output signal on the motherboard. To convert TTL to LVDS was purchased "converter board TTL / LVDS ID250" ($ 12.00), based on SN75LVDS83 chip (http://ibt.ca/v2/items/id250/index.html (http://ibt.ca/v2/items/id250/index.html)).
And it worked perfectly. Attaching photo.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 26, 2017, 04:45:12 am

Sir,

Mozhno i na ty...  ;D

I see your point. A little bit of history... When I got this scope about a month ago I didn't know much about it. Then I found Sven's post about upgrading his motherboard/CPU on this forum. That got me started. If I was about to do it all over again, would I use the same motherboard-CPU? Probably not... I think anything more than 2 cores is useless for XStream, in fact I ended up disabling two cores on my i7-2600 CPU for very same reason. Do I need an industry-grade motherboard with integrated LVDS output? Probably not, any micro-ATX board with at last one PCI slot would do. Why I was using a motherboard with integrated LDVS port? Because I was able to find a used one dirty cheap on EBay with free shipping. I'm not using any of its 6 serial ports, nor programmable watchdog timer or 6 programmable GPIO pins... As a matter of fact, the only useful feature of this "industry-grade" board I'm using is a Win32 library to adjust backlight intensity of LCD screen.

But you are absolutely right, it should be possible to convert video signal from DVI to LVDS LCD, assuming you have time to find (or build) a converter board which will work with your LCD screen (6 vs 8 bit per color, screen resolution, etc). And you will need to make the backlight inverter work too.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 26, 2017, 02:44:00 pm
Sir,
Mozhno i na ty...  ;D
I could not find this option in the Google translator to set mode "na ty"  ;D

If you change the original matrix of 800x600 NEC NL8060BC26-17, to 1024x768 NL10276DC20-04, I suggest just leave the backlight inverter as is in original LeCroy. Both LCD-matrix used the same backlight-lamp. Then you keep the original brightness control function in XStream menu. In other cases, you can also use the same wire brightness control of LeCroy, connecting it to the new inverter (eg for LED backlight).

Quote
But you are absolutely right, it should be possible to convert video signal from DVI to LVDS LCD, assuming you have time to find a converter board which will work with your LCD screen (6 vs 8 bit per color, screen resolution, etc).
In fact, this is very easy: click (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=VGA+LCD+Controller&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XLCD+Controller+1024x768.TRS0&_nkw=LCD+Controller+1024x768&_sacat=0)

Or:
1 NEC AccuSync LCD52VM (http://s020.radikal.ru/i710/1702/f7/159058ae4d6c.jpg)
2 NEC AccuSync LCD52VM (http://s015.radikal.ru/i332/1702/41/2da9d344fc9f.jpg)
3 NEC AccuSync LCD52VM (http://s016.radikal.ru/i334/1702/2b/f38b42850fac.jpg)

Quote
Why I was using a motherboard with integrated LDVS port? Because I was able to find a used one dirty cheap on EBay with free shipping. I'm not using any of its 6 serial ports, nor programmable watchdog timer or 6 programmable GPIO pins... As a matter of fact, the only useful feature of this "industry-grade" board I'm using is a Win32 library to adjust backlight intensity of LCD screen.
It's quite interesting. Is possible to learn markings of your motherboard?

Previously, I tried to buy the LCD-matrix "LTM10C386". This is - a very rare Matrix and I could not find it. But this is the only LCD-matrix 10.4" which has resolution 1600x1200.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 26, 2017, 06:05:25 pm
I'm using Advantech AIMB-581 board which has two DVI ports (one external, one - internal) and one internal LVDS port paired with Chi Mei Innolux G104X1-L03 1024x768 10.4" LCD screen. Multi-monitor support works with Intel HD graphic. Here're some pictures in case you are interested: http://iral.com/~albertr/WP7K1_LCD_upgrade/ (http://iral.com/~albertr/WP7K1_LCD_upgrade/)

Personally, I wouldn't go higher than 1024x768 (XGA) resolution on a 10.4" size, since IMHO it will become difficult to read the screen and operate the touch screen.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 26, 2017, 06:49:45 pm
In Abusemark recently appeared new model 2048x1536 LCD to HDMI Adapter (http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=58). So now you can connect 2048x1536 LCD matrix Retina even to the HDMI or DVI port (http://satinet.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/61.jpg).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 26, 2017, 07:52:24 pm
Here're some pictures in case you are interested: http://iral.com/~albertr/WP7K1_LCD_upgrade/ (http://iral.com/~albertr/WP7K1_LCD_upgrade/)
Thank you for the photo gallery. Neatly work done. I was once I too had chores with mounting design, when installed a different matrix to TLA704 logic analyzer.

(http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/1702/60/14d516792620t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/gj6z4mk9neg8j)

So now I bought a matrix identical to the original (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-1024-768-10-4-NL10276BC20-04-TFT-Industrial-LCD-Screen-Display-Replacement-/282018731926). Then it has managed only $ 80 for 2 pcs. new matrix, with a protective film on the glass.

usb - hole also I did with the help rasp. In addition, in the body TLA704 was cut space   for DVD-drive and 3.5 "hard drive.

(http://s018.radikal.ru/i518/1702/dd/b897453abe2ct.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/ttggk1b6n990p)


p.s. I looked at your Advantech board. I think this is also a good choice.

Who can give me advice where to get the front plastic frame for front panel WavePro7k? I need one.
 Representative office LeCroy in New York refused to sell me this.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on February 26, 2017, 10:35:08 pm

Who can give me advice where to get the front plastic frame for front panel WavePro7k? I need one.
 Representative office LeCroy in New York refused to sell me this.

I asked LeCroy the exactly same thing as the front bezel is also broken on mine - but didn't get any reply so far. I fear it's the same reason.

It seems to be pretty common with LeCroy to have plastic that breaks after a few years - i've seen several other Wavepro with broken front bezel, and all of my HFP active probes are broken at the bnc connectors because there's just not enough relief on the housing and
the plastic seems cheap. I never had that with HP/Agilent/Keysight/Tektronix. So regardless of the scope quality itself, i think LeCroy has or had a serious problem with Mechanical engineering. I hope it's different with the newer scopes.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 26, 2017, 10:54:55 pm
If to me someone sent drawings, I would do it printed for all, using the 3D-printer.
Sven, you sometimes check your private messages?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 26, 2017, 11:12:13 pm
Are you guys looking for P/N 70F1XXX14 (F1500/1000 Bezel)? I'm not that far from LeCroy US headquarters and can try check on its availability and pricing...

BTW, brittle cracked plastic was a huge issue on LeCroy's 93xx scopes, so they have a history...  :'(

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 26, 2017, 11:53:43 pm
Are you guys looking for P/N 70F1XXX14 (F1500/1000 Bezel)? I'm not that far from LeCroy US headquarters and can try check on its availability and pricing...

BTW, brittle cracked plastic was a huge issue on LeCroy's 93xx scopes, so they have a history...  :'(

-albertr
Yes, P/N 70F1XXX14 (F1500 / 1000 Bezel), the front bezel. I had a correspondence last year with Kate Raplan and she called me first a very good price and sent the photo.

(http://i045.radikal.ru/1702/48/f86f5d37ba90t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/eiwte446czj38)

(http://s018.radikal.ru/i516/1702/27/f104341912bdt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/26a3sbk392l2r)

(http://s019.radikal.ru/i644/1703/05/14808e60a14et.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/bc0u1i9cvr3ww)

But later he refused to sell, saying that the boss has forbidden to sell this item, even at a higher price, which I have tried to offer..

It would be great if you can help. In fact, I need 2 pcs. framework. I'm even willing to buy used and broken frames for further restoration.
My WavePro7300A does not have bezel, absolutely. In this state, it was bought in eBay. A second instance bezel I want to use when I upgrade LeCroy DDA-120 (LC584AXL) to DDA-125 (with 10.4" LCD display). There seems to be set to the same bezel, and WavePro900 (DDA-260) series bezel is similar.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 27, 2017, 12:19:35 am
In the past, some of the old bezels I successfully repaired. At first it is glued by means of dichloroethane, then reinforced with fiberglass and epoxy adhesive, puttied and selected by the color gray paint.

(http://s012.radikal.ru/i319/1702/93/dc792915030ft.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/jght2lwfyw07v)

(http://s020.radikal.ru/i708/1702/f4/d7ac36e3ddc3t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/vezkxc38v24rf)

(http://s020.radikal.ru/i700/1702/c7/662423d747c4t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/otdr6euhqond4)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on February 27, 2017, 02:43:31 pm
I have inquired LeCroy about P/N 70F1XXX14, but they said it's obsolete and no longer available. Sorry, guys. I guess they ran out of stock on this part and don't want to make another batch.
-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on February 27, 2017, 04:25:18 pm
It's a pity. We'll have to produce this part yourself. If you see this part, used or broken, please let me know..
Title: Re: Upgrading LeCroy WaveRunner 6100?
Post by: w2hx on March 06, 2017, 01:36:53 am
Hello friends,

I recently acquired a LeCroy WaveRunner 6100. It is my first GUI scope and I am really loving it. Mine has great options and -VL memory size. The one thing is the UI is a kinda "sluggish." I've been reading everything I can on these forums (especially this thread in particular) about upgrading.

Here are the options I have

Code: [Select]
Very Large memory option (12 Mpts/channel, 24 Mpts using 2 channels)
Disk Drive Measurement Package WR6-DDM2
Digital Filter Package WR6-DFP2
Ethernet Test Package (WaveRunner 6100 and 6200 only1) WR6-ENET
Master Analysis Package (XMATH + XDEV + JTA2) WR6-XMAP
Advanced Math Package WR6-XMATH
Developer’s Customization Kit WR6-XDEV
Jitter and Timing Analysis WR6-JTA2
USB 2.0 Compliance Software WR6-USB2
PowerMeasure Analysis WR6-PMA2

I don't plan to do a major motherboard replacement as several people have done successfully here, I just want to max out whatever I can max out. I am totally inexperienced when it comes to upgrading PC stuff. I couldn't tell a PCIe from a LVDS. So I was hoping I could get some validation of my approach here.

My 6100 has the following:
1.7 GHz Celeron CPU
The Windows 2000 reports 512MB RAM. But the STATUS screen shows 256MB (why is that?)
It has a standard IDE 36 GB drive PM-Maxtor 6E040L0 (Ultra DMA Mode ATA/100)
My plan is to upgrade the CPU, the RAM and replace the IDE hard drive with a PATA SSD drive.

Here is some system summary info.

Code: [Select]
Item Value
OS Name Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
Version 5.0.2195 Service Pack 4 Build 2195
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name LCRY0602P10523
System Manufacturer LeCroy Corporation             
System Model X-Stream DSO                   
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 1 Stepping 3 GenuineIntel ~1699 Mhz
BIOS Version BIOS Date: 07/14/03 11:28:48 Ver: 08.00.08
Windows Directory C:\WINNT
System Directory C:\WINNT\system32
Boot Device \Device\Harddisk0\Partition1
Locale United States
User Name LCRY0602P10523\LeCroyUser
Time Zone Eastern Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 522,032 KB
Available Physical Memory 375,504 KB
Total Virtual Memory 1,798,056 KB
Available Virtual Memory 1,525,288 KB
Page File Space 1,276,024 KB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys



Here is the designation for my motherboard:

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/0304171629.jpg)


Picture of the RAM in my scope (and yes, I've cleaned it up since this picture):

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/0304171610.jpg)


I then found the documentation to my motherboard:

Intel® Desktop Board D845GERG2
https://downloadmirror.intel.com/15324/eng/D845GERG2_D845GEBV2_ProductGuide_English.pdf (https://downloadmirror.intel.com/15324/eng/D845GERG2_D845GEBV2_ProductGuide_English.pdf)

On page 11 and 12 it talks about what this motherboard can support. It looks like I can upgrade to two 1GB memory sticks as long as they are DDR style. It also indicates that I can upgrade to a Pentium 4 with 2.8 GHz, 533 FSB and 512 KB L2 cache.  It also mentions to use DDR333 with a Pentium 4 and a 533 FSB. So considering I plan to upgrade the CPU I might as well also get the DDR333 over the DDR266.

I would be grateful if I could get some validation on my choices of upgrades. These are the items I am thinking of acquiring.
CPU
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001OTL3W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AL1R147NEYJ60 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001OTL3W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AL1R147NEYJ60)
RAM
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CH8NXY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1C0E2G2LZFK00 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CH8NXY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1C0E2G2LZFK00)
As for the hard drive, I read some posts from "Joesmith" that refer to the Transcend SSD.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AQT2LL6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ANNSJU9W28Y9J (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AQT2LL6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ANNSJU9W28Y9J)

I also plan to move over to winXP SP3 and as I have read here, to install x-stream for the WR6K(A) and then x-stream for WavePro7K(A). This is supposed to get the best set of software features. I just pray that I don't lose my software options if I do this! I have a lot of nice options.

Based on the motherboard documentation, my question is have I selected the right components? Is there something I should watch out for or should I expect the CPU and RAM upgrade straightforward? I know the SSD is a little more involved with cloning and maintaining the calibration data. I'll have to be careful with that.

Any or all advice/warnings welcome.
Thanks
Eugene W2HX

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 06, 2017, 02:29:46 am
Hi w2hx,

1. I would recommend this processor: https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Pentium-3-06GHz-Socket-533MHz/dp/B000MNJIDK/ref=sr_1_1 (https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Pentium-3-06GHz-Socket-533MHz/dp/B000MNJIDK/ref=sr_1_1)
This is the limit for bus 533 MHz and the old kernel Northwood. Maybe it will have to update the BIOS.

2. I do not think it will be worse if you install two strips of 400 MHz DDR, even if they work only at 333 MHz.

But I still would have changed the motherboard because you will not get too much benefit from the SSD, using a slow IDE bus.

In any case, be sure to save an image of your original drive, especially folder with the settings.

Title: Re: Upgrading LeCroy WaveRunner 6100
Post by: w2hx on March 06, 2017, 11:23:44 pm
Hello, Converter! Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I actually never knew about that 3.06 GHz chip! thanks for pointing that out to me. As you suggested, I found that I need version P09 of the BIOS for this motherboard to support that faster chip so its good to know it is supported.  And yes, that is a great suggestion about the faster DDR. This stuff is so cheap it makes sense, especially with the faster CPU.

One question, I did some reading about that faster CPU and it appears to support hyperthreading (or something like that).  I have read in these forums about concerns regarding HT technology and the xstream software. Is this anything I need to worry about? Can it be turned off somehow?

Thanks again (and yes, I will be careful to make an image copy of the existing HD.)
Eugene


Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 07, 2017, 12:25:09 am
Hi Eugene,
Yes, the 3.06 GHz processor is the only model from this old series that has implemented 2 thread processing (Hyper Threading). But Sven's driver keyboard for Windows XP works fine with multithreaded processors. You can also try to disable Hyper Threading in Bios.
Title: Re: Upgrading LeCroy WaveRunner 6100
Post by: w2hx on March 07, 2017, 08:40:21 pm
Well, I did it. I managed to crash the original hard drive before I had a chance to clone it. I was trying to figure out how to remove the hard drive from its mounting frame and removed some screws thinking it would allow the drive to detach from the frame. Instead a panel opened up and I saw the platter. Within  a nanosecond I snapped the panel back in place praying that nothing bad would occur. But my prayers were not answered. I tried to boot it up and it says no boot media. I hear the hard drive trying and trying and trying to boot but just the error message.

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/0307171407.jpg)

I am praying not all is lost. Let me explain. When I first got the scope, I found a menu option to save important files. This menu option was within the scope software itself. Specifically, it was within the Service Menu, "Critical File Backup"
It created a zip file with the calibration folder that has a bunch of .btd files and a /compensation folder. 

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/ServiceCriticalFilesScreen.png)

I am praying that once I get this thing up and running again, and reload the xstream software, that I can re-import this zip file and regain all of my options that would otherwise be a fortune to purchase.

Does anyone know if, with this file backed up, if I can restore the scope to all its optioned glory? Or am I screwed? I should mention that I dont know if the old drive is totally dead or just unbootable. It is possible that if I boot off another drive that I could still mount the D: partition if that becomes necessary.

Any advice (other than to get driving directions to the nearest landfill as the scope's last resting place)?
Eugene




Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 07, 2017, 09:12:06 pm
Eugene, that "critical files" backup you did is all you need, everything else can be re-installed.

I guess now nothing should hold you from migrating over to Windows 7?  ^-^

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 07, 2017, 10:18:53 pm
Hi Albertr. You come to the rescue yet again!  Whew. I am glad you think I'll be alright. Otherwise I would have had a very expensive doorstop.

So now I am wondering about windows 7 and other possibilities. First, is there any benefit of using 64 over 32 bit? Perhaps 32 bit requires less resources so perhaps that is the right direction?

Second, what really is the benefit of win7 over xp pro in the specific case of the WR6100? Probably some stability, but I worry that with limited resources on this motherboard that I should be looking for the "lightest" OS I can find to maximize resources available to the scope software itself? Is win7 "too much" for this little 2GB motherboard to handle?

And then of course, my mind wanders to linux. I know nothing about it other than I used to use some variants of unix in the 90's.  Aren't there linuxes that can run windows programs? If so, any benefit of attempting something like that? I've always been under the impression that linux is generally lighter weight than windows. Maybe it simply cannot work, or maybe no one has ever tried it!

What do you think?



Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 08, 2017, 12:51:51 am
The benefit of using Windows 7 is built in support for TRIM, so you don;'t have to worry about running TRIM command manually via third party software. Also Windows 7 is better supported on the newer boards/hardware, but that won't apply to you since you want to keep the original D845GERG2. Forget about x64, LeCroy drivers are 32 bit only.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 08, 2017, 02:13:26 am
I will support the previous Albertr comment. I just want to remind, and here it was discussed: you have to reproduce the disk structure, as it was on the original disc.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 08, 2017, 03:12:44 am
Converter, I would like to get some more clarity on your comment if possible. Do you mean I simply need to create a C: and D: partition? Or is there something more specific I need to do? My original disk has crashed due to my own stupidity so I don't know what (if anything) can be recovered from it.  Do the partitions need to be a very specific size or something else? I will try to review all the pages in this thread again to see what I can find.

thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 08, 2017, 04:32:24 am
I think the size does not matter  ;). But the path to the folders should be preserved.
Just create a physical disk (D:). And extract archive calibration. Then check that came out of it. If it does not work, you'll have to create the directories manually.
Here for example the structure on my old LeCroyWP7200.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 08, 2017, 03:59:14 pm
I just went thru the same ordeal recently since my scope came without the hard drive. I've created multiple partitions, made my D: volume partition to be the second partition in the partition table (not sure if it's strictly necessary, thou) , assigned the following volume labels:

SYSTEM for C: volume (Windows boot volume)
USERDATA for D: volume (calibration data volume).

If I was to repeat the process to reinstall Windows XP I would do the following:

1. Partition the hard drive as above.
2. Install Windows XP on C: volume.
3. Install X-Stream 6.x
4. Install X-Stream 8.x
5. Make sure all LeCroy drivers are installed correctly.
6. Start X-Stream and restore "Critical files backup".

In case of Windows 7 there's no need to install the old X-Strem 6.x software, just follow Sven's instructions posted on the previous page.
I can hardly see why anyone would use Windows XP on these scopes when Windows 7 works now thanks to Sven's excellent work.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on March 08, 2017, 05:34:23 pm
I just went thru the same ordeal recently since my scope came without the hard drive. I've created multiple partitions, made my D: volume partition to be the second partition in the partition table (not sure if it's strictly necessary, thou) , assigned the following volume labels:

SYSTEM for C: volume (Windows boot volume)
USERDATA for D: volume (calibration data volume).

If I was to repeat the process I would do the following:

1. Partition the hard drive as above.
2. Install Windoze on C: volume.
3. Install X-Stream 6.x
4. Install X-Stream 8.x
5. Make sure all LeCroy (or Sven's in case of Win 7) drivers are installed correctly.
6. Start X-Stream and restore "Critical files backup".

-albertr

If you use my driver package for win7, you shouldn't need to install 6.x of the X-Stream software - just install 8.x and install the drivers.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 08, 2017, 06:10:09 pm
If you use my driver package for win7, you shouldn't need to install 6.x of the X-Stream software - just install 8.x and install the drivers.

Right, sorry about it - in case of Win 7 your instructions (posted a couple of pages back) worked for me.

Also, regardless of Windows version, I had to install 4 wire resistive touch screen driver separately. I'm attaching the driver with enclosed instructions I've got from the other board member.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 08, 2017, 06:27:46 pm
Unfortunately, forum's software  doesn't accept rar archives, so .zip suffix needs to be removed before extraction. Here's the rest.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 09, 2017, 02:43:50 am
What is the recommended version of windows 7 for this upgrade? Home? Home Premium? Professional? Ultimate?  Which version of Windows is recommended for the WR6100? Remember, I'll only have 2GB RAM and a 3.06 GHz processor.
thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on March 09, 2017, 09:08:28 am
I have Win7 Professional on my WavePro 7300 scope - but i guess the X-Stream Software would run on all versions.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 09, 2017, 08:29:08 pm
Windows 7 Home Premium here, seems to be running fine - have both TRIM and Intel HD graphic multi-monitor support working without issues so far...

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 21, 2017, 12:39:40 am
Dear friends.

It has been a awhile since I began my journey in attempting to upgrade my WR6100.  Where we last left off, I finally decided to go ahead and install win7 along with the SSD upgrade, upgrade the 512MB to 2GB and 1.7 GHz Celeron to a 3.06 GHz Pentium 4.

Well, let me tell you what a long, strange trip its been.  Fraught with danger and heartbreak at every turn!

First, it was quite the project to get the computer out of the scope and especially to get the hard drive out which I miscalculated and ended up destroying the HD. Luckily, I was able to export all of the critical files of the scope before I destroyed it.

The RAM went in fine. A new 3.06GHz Pentium 4 arrived in the mail and some pins were bent and one pin was broken off. Back to the seller for a replacement. At the time of this writing I am still waiting for the CPU.

And then it was onto the SSD. The original scope had a 36GB IDE HD. I purchased a 60GB PATA SSD to replace it. I had a lot of trouble getting the machine to recognize the SSD beyond what was shown in the BIOS (which was correct). It ends up I needed an 80 conductor cable instead of the 40 that I was using (I was using 40 because I was trying to the SSD and another HD online at the same time and that was the only cable I had).

Once I got the machine to correctly recognize the SSD I began the process of attempting to create a win7 bootable image onto a USB stick. Well this did not go well. It was impossible. I ready everything there was to read about this and I could not make it work. I played with USB partitioning tools, played with the bios setting, you name it. No luck. After about a week screwing around with it, I gave up and decided to try making a bootabe CD with win7.

I soon discovered that win7 will not fit onto a CD but only a DVD. And I then proceeded to discover that the optical drive in the WR6100 was only a CD and not DVD! arrgh. I went and bought a DVD drive and figured I might as well put that into the scope as another upgrade.  DVD drive arrived. First i noticed it had a curved plastic fact, the kind that is found in a laptop. Oh well, it wont look very pretty with the top protruding while the bottom will be flush.

here is a picture of the face of the original CDROM.

(http://www.w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/0320171952.jpg)

and here is a picture of the new DVD (arrgh). You can see it in the mounting structure.

(http://www.w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/0320171952a.jpg)

For kicks, I figured I'd better make sure it will fit into the opening in the back of the scope because once that thing is mounted beneath the motherboard, it is very hard to change.  And of course. It doesn't fit. Arrgghh. The plastic drawer is wider then the opening on the rear of the scope. Arrggh. I took some diagonal cutters and trimmed the plastic. Now it fits.

Ok, onto connecting the DVD to the motherboard. All I need to do is remove the cdrom from the metal mounting bracket, remove the cable converter board that goes from 40 pin IDE to a very small, high density connector on both the dvd and cd drives.  Uh oh. Next problem! The drive and the cable converter are secured on with tiny torx screws requiring a size of torx bit I dont have! arrgghh..  I go on amazon and order a torx bit kit with small sizes, then wait a few days for it to arrive.

Ok. I now have the RAM in, the new SSD connected and a DVD. With my other PC I finally burn a windows 7 bootable disk and I am off to the races.

Long story short (it might be too late for that), I spend another week trying to get win7 to install. I racked my brain here. The biggest problem is that there are no video drivers for the built in motherboard video controller. I tried EVERYTHING... EVERYTHING! I tried a hundred ways to install the latest drivers from Intel. I spent money on software/driver tools in hopes to solve the problem. No matter what I did it would not change from 640x480, 16 colors. Totally unusable. I really tried. I never tried the AGP card for the LCD, but with all the trouble I was afraid other drivers would also not work.  In the end, I had to acknowledge defeat and I was forced to realize that XP might be my only hope.

Fast forward to today. I now have WinXP Pro installed on the SSD, all drivers updated, all MS patches installed, everything set up the way I like and ready to go.  The next step will be to attempt to install the X-stream software and any other drivers I will need.

One thing I am not 100% clear on, is whether I need to have the acquisition stuff connected up to the PC at the time I attempt to install xstream, or whether I can get everything installed and running before attempting to reinstall the PC into the scope and hook everything up. This include whether I can run xstream and attempt to restore the "D:" critical files including calibration data before putting everything back together and connecting the acquisition stuff. I am very much hoping this is possible because if, for some reason, I need to work on getting the D: drive stuff recognized (without an error that has been reported) it would be easier to muck around with it before reinstalling it.

Well that is the saga so far. Any input would be appreciated about getting xstream installed and configured/restored before re-installing into the scope or whether it is time I buttoned everything up and did the rest in-situ.

Thanks for the BW and advice
Eugene









Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 21, 2017, 01:16:53 am
Plastic panel DVD - it is a separate item. You can take it off and replace it with a more suitable one (http://www.bluraysupplier.com/products/12.7mm-Universal-DVD-RW-Drive-Bezel-Faceplate-for-laptop-optical-drive.html#.WNCBdeNshNc).
I would not set the x-stream before it is connected to the equipment.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 21, 2017, 02:02:19 am
Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle! I had no idea. I found one on ebay. Thanks for the pointer! Things are looking brighter already. And thanks for the tip about xstream. Very helpful advice.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 26, 2017, 01:20:05 am
Hi friends. I now have the new CPU installed (P4 3.06), RAM, SSD, WinXP (from win2k), DVD (from CD). WinXP is running very nicely now! And I am excited to get the scope software installed.  I have just completed reassembling the scope in preparation of installing the xstream stuff.

Just some points of clarification.

Right now, I can only use an external monitor. I have not figured out how to get working the lecroy-provided video card that powers the front panel LCD. Will the LCD driver come along with the xstream software? Or can I get it running prior to downloading xstream?

I decided maybe I should try to first install the touch screen drivers that albertr posted above. I see there are 4 rar files .part1. through .part4. I downloaded them all but they all appear identical same files in them. Am I doing something wrong? I removed the .zip extension and I am using winrar. I thought maybe they are just a huge rar file split into 4 parts, but I can't seem to get winrar to do anything like combine them or something.

I know DXL wrote some win7 drivers. Am I correct to assume these will not help me at all in XP?

As for hyperthreading, my new P4 supports it. I know there were problems in the past that DXL solved for win7. Am I correct that the hyperthreading problem was not solved in XP?

If DXL's drivers are only good for win7, does this mean I do, indeed, need to first download and install X-Stream 6.x before doing the same with X-Stream 8.x ?

Just looking for next steps.
thanks
Eugene




Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 26, 2017, 08:20:07 pm
Hello, Eugene.
I went the other way - I used a discrete graphics card, so I'm not familiar with this problem.
But LeCroy original design used AGP adapter Touchstone Technology, Inc. that outputs a video signal from the built-in GPU of the motherboard. Maybe this requires a special driver. Or you need to check BIOS settings. I would also check the properties of the screen in Windows XP, multidisplays.
RAR files .part1-.part4 are usually combined automatically during unpacking. Just run any of them when they are all in the same directory.
For Windows XP, DXL made a keyboard driver for multi-core processors as early as last year, and it works fine. If the DXL does not mind, I can send it to you in private messages.
First install X-Stream 6.x. It seems in X-Stream 8.x does not contain all the necessary components.
Sorry about my (poor) English.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Someone on March 26, 2017, 09:14:07 pm
Sorry about my (poor) English.
Your written english is excellent, better than many native speakers. Thanks for making the effort and contributing so much :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 28, 2017, 01:38:56 am
Ok everyone. A big update! (LeCroy WaveRunner 6100)

I installed xstream software version 6.5.0.5 (the latest I could find on lecroy) and the scope works! It lives again! I realized that the intel graphics utility (that came with the latest video driver) allowed me to select external video, internal video or both. I think the LCD wasn't working because I had "external" video selected. 

The scope works. A few things I noticed. First was the message about the missing calibration data (I had not yet restored those files). Secondly, when the xstream started up, I was seeing a message about missing MASK database. 

After taking another image of the SSD, I then upgraded to 8.1.0.1 as recommended. Now, the mask database error has gone away and the calibration message is still there.

I then restored the zip file that was originally created after backing up "critical files" from the scope under win2k before I killed the HD.  It appears that the scope did do something. If I attempt to restore the files with the zip file not present where the scope expects it, it complains. But when I do a restore with the zip file there, it does not complain. But strangely, there is absolutely no message, no acknowledgement that the scope successfully imported these critical files. This is very unusual. I would have expected a "FILES RESTORED" message or something.

So I am not certain but I think they imported. One other reason I believe they restored properly is that I can see all of my software options listed. Unfortunately, I forgot to check this before I did the restore. Had I done that I would have known 10000% that the files imported properly.

However, as Albertr reported previously, the message when the scope starts up it still complains about the calibration data. I know that Albertr solved the problem by installing win7 which, unfortunately, is not an option for me with this motherboard. When xstream starts up and gives this message about the calibration data, it does give me the option to "don't display this message again" effectively suppressing the message.  I wonder if the correct thing to do would be to allow it to suppress this error.  And I wonder, if I had paid lecroy to upgrade me to XP (if such a thing was ever possible) if they would have done the same thing. Restore the critical files and then turn off the message. Kind of like the "service light" on your car. After the service has been performed, the light must be manually turned off by the technician.  I wonder if this is the same case.

Let me review the beginning of this saga. The scope worked fine, but I found the xstream UI sluggish. I would click on a menu option and it would take 1/2 second to 1 second for the screen/menu/options to appear. In addition, browsing the web was impossibly slow. Even with chrome (which I generally find speedy).

Here are the list of upgrades I performed:

Hardware Upgrades
1.6 GHz Celeron --> 3.06 GHz Pentium 4
512MB RAM --> 2GB RAM
36 GB IDE HD --> 60 GB IDE/PATA SSD
CDROM Drive --> DVD-RW  Drive
Much quieter and better CPU fan (I should have replaced the fans on the acquisition board too, but oh well).

Software Upgrades
Windows 2000 --> Windows XP Pro
X-Stream 6.3.x.x --> X-Stream 6.5.0.5 --> X-Stream 8.1.0.1
All calibration data and other critical data restored

And now I'll tell you my impressions.  This scope now FLIES! I can't believe how responsive it is! It is a real dream. I must say, I was not expecting a lot of performance improvement. Maybe a little. I have never had much luck upgrading a system and seeing real improvement in speed. It seems as soon as you upgrade the hardware, the software upgrades (gets slower) to counteract any improvement in the hardware :)

I am very, very happy. Here is a picture of the results in the utilities screen..

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/post-upgrade.png)

So what is next? Here are the next things I will tackle.

1. I'd like to try to add a 1Gbps ethernet card. I think it might make using WaveStudio faster. Although it is possible that the PCI bus speed might be the limiting factor here.  The scope has a small window at the rear for the GPIB connector (which mine does not have). I am hoping that the ethernet card RJ45 port will line up with this little window.

2. Enable Hyper Threading. I will use the upgraded keyboard drivers for XP that will hopefully allow me to use HT which this new P4 supports.  I have also read up about how to enable XP to see the second logical core since it normally won't see it once it installs with only one core (in addition to enabling it in bios). There are ways to do it and I'll try them.

All in all, this upgrade was extremely successful. A big thank you to everyone who has helped me here. DXL, Albertr, and Converter. 

As a side note, I just acquired a LeCroy HDO 4024. I will be very curious to see how it performs. Having been a little emboldened doing this upgrade to the WR6100, I wonder if I will be foolish enough to try to upgrade the HDO too!

Eugene
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 28, 2017, 06:43:30 pm
Looks like a nice set of options you have enabled in your scope!  :-+

As far as a missing calibration dialog box goes, what does your hard drive's partition layout look like? I think you might want to make sure that D: drive is mapped to the second partition (physical or logical) and that it has "USERDATA" volume label.

-albertr

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 29, 2017, 01:37:48 am
Hi all,

Just a little update and then a response.  I tried to install the GB ethernet card and... no joy...  :-[

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/0328172036.jpg)

I was hoping the little square opening that was designed for a GPIB connector would have been aligned for the standard pci card opening, but no such luck :(. I tried to move the card a little so that I could insert the cable, but it just wasn't going to work. 

The only possibility would be to attempt to cut that small opening to be larger. But I worry I could not do a good job of it and I really worry I would create a lot of metal burrs which is probably the sort of thing that should be kept away from a high-end piece of test and measurement equipment, not introduced to it. 

The only other thing that I could consider would be either a) using a USB-ethernet adapter or b) a wireless adapter.  The USB-ethernet might be a little faster than the existing 100 mbps ethernet given that usb 2.0 is up to 480 mbps. So even if I could get 200 mbps out of the usb-ethernet adapter, it might be worth it. As for the possibility of a wireless adapter, as long as the RF connector would line up with the opening in the chassis. I could either use the little right-angle antennas or an outboard antenna.  Of course, I would not achieve 1 gbps either.  Any opinions?

Second subject.

Quote
As far as a missing calibration dialog box goes, what does your hard drive's partition layout look like? I think you might want to make sure that D: drive is mapped to the second partition (physical or logical) and that it has "USERDATA" volume label.

Here is what my partitions look like:

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/Disks2.PNG)

As you can see I have one primary partition and one "extended" partition. Could this be wrong? If so, what kind of partition should I make it?  Any suggestions? Again, thanks to everyone for your help.

Eugene
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 29, 2017, 02:44:04 am
Unless I'm missing something, your partition layout looks good. I  went thru the same ordeal with missing calibration data dialog box. I think XStream software stores the calibration partition location somewhere (in the windows registry, perhaps?) during installation. Right now I have a dual boot setup with both Windows Xp and Windows 7. Xp still complains about missing calibration data, while Win 7 doesn't. Obviously, they are using the same calibration partition and the same data. Since I always boot into Win 7, I don't care much about Xp, but if it bothers you, try to wipe out windows registry by re-formatting C: drive and re-installing windows and then re-install XStream afresh.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 29, 2017, 03:28:09 am
Hi AlbertR,

Actually, my scope is giving me the option to dismiss the message forever. so with one mouse-stroke I can eliminate the message. However, I would love to know if the data was loaded properly or not. As I mentioned in my previous post, maybe this function (backup critical files) is really meant for use by a lecroy technician. And maybe they can reset this message like a car "service" light can be reset by a mechanic. Maybe the message was meant to be manually dismissed by a lecroy technician after restoring the data? Not sure.

I actually did some thorough looking at the registry. I looked through everything I could find with "LeCroy" and there was nothing about cal data, location of it, or even that the message should appear/not appear. Very little in the registry from what I could find. Could there be some other nvram elsewhere that holds this? Maybe this data gets loaded into the acquisition board somewhere? Maybe there is just a bug in the XP stuff that isn't properly resetting this message once the data is loaded? I dunno.

I wonder if I might see if I can find a friendly lecroy employee who might know about this detail, even if it is > 10 years old!

Tomorrow, I should receive my HDO 4024 in the mail. I hope I like it. I have no idea if it is well respected or not in the world of scopes.
Eugene



Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 29, 2017, 12:20:53 pm
Okay, volume D: you have. But what is contained in that volume? Could you show?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 30, 2017, 02:45:24 am
Good question.  Your question made me think of doing a comparison between the D:\calibration folder on the scope and the \calibration folder in the ZIP file created when I "backed up critical files" before the scope died.

The link below is the diff. The "left" file is the one currently on the D:\ drive, created by installing 6.5.0.5 and then 8.1.0.1 on top of it.  The "right" file is the ZIP file from the scope originally. The RED rows indicate a difference.

http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/diff.html (http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/diff.html)  (Sorry, I tried to figure out how to include that file inline but couldn't figure it out.)

expertsettings.vbs - the file on the scope shows today's date. all I did today was start the DSO and exit a bit. So this file must be updated whenever the scope is started. But interestingly, the file from the old hard drive has a date of 12/31/2001. So the old scope must not have updated this file whenever the DSO was run... hmmm.

Trigger threshold.crv - this is the same situation as the expertsettings.vbs. Same dates, same situation?

CalCacheB.mdb - interesting in that this only appears on the new scope install not the old scope files.

And that is the total extent of the differences for the /Calibration directory! Unfortunately, I did not get a directory tree listing on the original disk, but here is the directory tree for the D:\ drive after the new software installs.

Code: [Select]
D:.
????Applications
?   ????64b66b
?   ????8b10b
?   ????ARINC429
?   ????CAN FD
?   ????CAN Std
?   ????DigRF
?   ????EyeDr
?   ?   ????USB3
?   ????FLX
?   ????I2C
?   ????LIN
?   ????Manchester
?   ????MIL1553
?   ????NRZ
?   ????SENT
?   ????SPI
?   ????TDR
?   ?   ????Calibrations
?   ?   ????CalibrationStandards
?   ????UART
?   ????USART
?   ????USB2
?   ?   ????Results
?   ?   ????Setups
?   ????VerticalNoiseCal
?   ????VirtualProbe
????CableCompensation
?   ????CableDescriptions
????CustomDSO
????Documentation
????HardCopy
????Masks
?   ????Backup
????Scripts
????Setups
????Tables
????Waveforms
????XPort

To see the the full directory tree including the files, see here http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/d-tree-files.rtf   (http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/d-tree-files.rtf)

The only thing I can think of is that somehow, the new 8.1.0.1 puts the files somewhere else? I dunno. I am completely baffled. Comments, questions and suggestions welcome.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 30, 2017, 01:50:04 pm

To see the the full directory tree including the files, see here http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/d-tree-files.rtf   (http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/d-tree-files.rtf)

The only thing I can think of is that somehow, the new 8.1.0.1 puts the files somewhere else? I dunno. I am completely baffled. Comments, questions and suggestions welcome.
Hello.
But I do not see absolutely on your disk directory D:/Calibration/. Look at my «Reply #122 on: March 08, 2017, 03:32:24 PM» - there is an example in a text file. I do not know how this difference can be caused, but it seems to me that it is important.
Maybe there are some settings in the X-stream for the directory for storing these files, and they are located on another disk? Otherwise, you can try to do this manually.

Have you allowed to view the hidden and system protected files on the disk?
You have somewhere on the disk files like: cached_gd_10p0_1.txt, cached_comp_10p0.txt, CalCache.mdb, CalCache.ldb ?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 30, 2017, 11:22:29 pm
Rats, my bad. I thought that folder was in there, but I see it was not (it was hidden). Here is the tree for d:\calibration

Code: [Select]
Folder PATH listing for volume USERDATA
Volume serial number is 1987-42D0
D:.
|   AAcqBTD.btd
|   CalCacheB.mdb
|   FeBTDC1.btd
|   FeBTDC2.btd
|   FeBTDC|.btd
|   FeBTDC4.btd
|   FeBTDExt.btd
|   Had440BTDC1.btd
|   Had440BTDC2.btd
|   Had440BTDC|.btd
|   Had440BTDC4.btd
|   Trigger threshold.crv
|   
+---Compensation
    |   expertsettings.vbs
    |   
    +---c1
    |   +---af00
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af01
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af02
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af10
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af20
    |           response.txt
    |           
    +---c2
    |   +---af00
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af01
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af02
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af10
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af20
    |           response.txt
    |           
    +---c3
    |   +---af00
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af01
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af02
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af10
    |   |       response.txt
    |   |       
    |   +---af20
    |           response.txt
    |           
    +---c4
        +---af00
        |       response.txt
        |       
        +---af01
        |       response.txt
        |       
        +---af02
        |       response.txt
        |       
        +---af10
        |       response.txt
        |       
        +---af20
                response.txt

I will add that this is exactly the same as what I have in my zip file that resulted from the "backup critical files" from the service menu. I see that your folders have some other files, "cached_xxx" but I don't know why my scope did not produce these files. I WONDER. My scope is a WaveRunner 6100. Perhaps your is different and therefore produces different files?

I will add one more thing of interest here. When I installed windows XP, I created two accounts. Administrator and LeCroyUser. LeCroyUser was the user that came with the scope and I believe is the standard username.  All the installing and testing I've been doing was with the Administrator account and I always received the message about the Calibration (shown here):

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/cal-error.PNG)

Interestingly, today I decided to log in using LeCroyUser and to my amazment, when I run Start DSO, I do not get the error message! Using LeCroyUser, the DSO starts up perfectly fine with no error message!

Could it be that these calibration data are somehow tied to a particular windows user account? I wonder if my scope is fine, and I just need to use the correct login?

@AlbertR, I wonder what user you have defined in your XP install of your dual boot?

@Converter-What do you make of this? On the one hand, I could call it a day since I no longer get the message, on the other hand, I really don't know if my calibration is ok, and on the 3rd hand, for the kind of work I do, the degree of calibration in those files might be really negligible so maybe I just should not care?

Eugene
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on March 31, 2017, 02:01:07 am
Quite surprisingly I'm using "albertr" account, no mysterious LeCroyUser user for me  :-DD

It's not the user, I'm pretty sure that's some settings XStream software creates. If they are stored under user's registry settings or inside user directory, then it will explain your findings.

How do you like your new HDO 4024? Looks like it has a PC motherboard inside too, so it might be some possibilities for upgrades...

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on March 31, 2017, 02:27:37 am
@AlbertR - if you have nothing better to do, I would be curious if you created a user in XP called LeCroyUser and see if it can run DSO without error. Just curious.

I've been through the registry twice, one for administrator and once for lecroyuser and I cannot find anything related. Barely anything at all, actually. I also took a brief look through "c:\documents and settings\user\etc." I don't remember what the folders are, but the ones that are specific to the user. And I found nothing there too. It wasn't exhaustive research, but nothing jumped out at me.

I just received the HDO tonight (it was a day late). Very nice! I might consider making a thread on it. Not really a review, per se, because I am simply not knowledgeable enough to do it justice.  But I worry such a thread might devolved into a "LeCroy vs Agilent vs Tektronix vs R&S vs Rigol vs Siglent vs Owon" cage match smack down.

Eugene
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 31, 2017, 11:35:08 pm
Hello!
I added new user and logged in using his, but it works just as well as LeCroyUser. However, this is only if you give him administrator rights.
Later I deleted the folders: d:\Calibration\Compensation\c1, c2, c3, c4, but I still do not get any error messages while loading X-Stream. I went even further and cleaned the entire folder  d:\calibration . However, this also does not lead to the appearance of your error!
And finally, when I completely deleted this folder "Calibration" I was able see for the first time the same message, just like you.

After a single launch, X-Stream restores all files and folders except: c1, c2, c3, c4. However, now this message continues to appear whenever I load X-Stream. This continues despite the fact that I have returned all the saved original folders and files. Until then, until I cancel repeat this warning.

I think that the system remembers that at some point in the downloading process, there were no calibration data and suggested that you contact LeCroy service for this. If you have calibration data in folders c1, c2, c3, c4, and after canceling this message, it does not reappear, you can worry about nothing.

To test this idea, I suggest saving the entire contents of the d:\calibration folder and inserting it on the disk manually after a new installation of X-Stream. This must be done necessarily before the first launch of the X-Stream after its clean installation.. It seems to me that in this case you will no longer see any reports of the need for calibration.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on April 06, 2017, 01:26:50 am
Hello Converter, et., al.

Some various final thoughts, observations and comments...

Thank you for going through that procedure to find the behavior of the scope as pertains to the calibration data.  I think you are onto something here with your theory of the calibration data. Let me explain. When I installed the OS and Xstream, I did it all under a user called Administrator (with admin permissions as you would expect). I naturally had to run xstream before attempting to restore the the critical files. As I noted before, this administrator user always gives me the cal data error. 

But the first time I ever ran xstream under the LeCroyUser, I had already restored the critical files to the D: drives while doing it as the Administrator user. Also recall that I never get this error when running xstream under LeCroyUser. So I think your theory is correct. If the files are not there the first time a given user runs xstream, then the error will appear and it does not reset itself automatically. It must be reset manually by dismissing the error message.

This tells me that somewhere in the user-specific folders of XP this "state" is stored. The state being "no files found upon first run" or "yes, files found upon first launch."  It would be interesting for me to compare the folder structure of the admin user to the lecroyuser to see what is different.

Of course, that is all academic. The real question is whether the cal data actually restores and is loaded and used by the scope.  If I understood the c1, c2, c3, c4 "response.txt" files (assuming the response.txt files contain the cal constants per channel, I am not sure) then I could set up a test to stress those cal constants and do a "before" and "after" test.

For example, if I knew that there was a calibration entry saying that at 1GHz, the channel is off by 10mV (or whatever), then I could generate a 1 GHz signal and measure it on the scope with and without the calibration files in place. If I see a difference when changing that file, then I know the scope is successfully loading and using the cal constants.  My problem is, I don't know how to interpret these response files and I don't even know if they are the calibration files.

Based on all of this, I believe you are correct. Now that I have restored those files, I believe if I were to reinstall xstream under admin, the error would go away. But I don't think I care enough at this point to go through all of that. I have to install 6.5.0.5 and then 8.1.0.1 more work than I think I would like to invest at this point in time.

Some other possibly interesting (to very few people) thing I discovered. While exploring my new LeCroy HDO 4024 scope, I looked at their partitions and here is what I found...

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/HDO4024/disk%20partitions.png)

The interesting part is that the D: drive partition is actually a "Primary" partition, not an extended/logical partition.  Based on the conclusion I have reached along with Converter's analysis, I don't think the partition type actually plays a part in all of this, but I thought I would mention it.

One other small point, the DVD I used to replace the CD (when I thought I was going to be able to install Win7) had the wrong front plastic face. I discovered that unfortunately, not all of these are interchangeable. The replacement "flat" plastic piece unfortunately doesn't fit...

(http://w2hx.com/x/LeCroy/WR6K/0401170042.jpg)

You can see much of the geometry of this plastic piece is the same. But some detail on the edge is different. I gave up trying to make it fit and am now resigned to use the ugly plastic piece that came with the dvd drive. Oh well.

I did enable Hyperthreading in the BIOS. Interestingly, as soon as I did that and launched XP it recognized that the CPU had "changed" and seemed to make whatever changes were necessary to support the second virtual core (not the right terminology, but you know what I mean). The Task Manager now properly shows two CPUs (one for each thread) and the scope is really fast.

All in all, I am very, very happy with the results. The scope is super-responsive, boots very quickly and is a pleasure to operate.  CPU is massively lower. Prior to the upgrades, CPU was always at 100% while the xstream was running and triggering. Now the scope loafs along at 6%!!! A massive difference.

I think now, I will consider this upgrade complete. I have begun to play around with my new HDO 4024 12bit scope. It is quite beautiful. But now I am thinking of possibly doing some upgrades on it. I might start a new thread for that. Fact is, I feel a little bad about having hijacked this thread on the DDA-3000 for my WR6100 project.   But I have learned so much from all of you and the results of this upgrade have really emboldened me to upgrade the HDO. The big question will be how easily it can be taken apart to get to the parts to upgrade them.

Thanks everyone!
73 Eugene W2HX
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on April 06, 2017, 09:17:02 am
Just a quick question for the WavePro 7K owners about typical protocol decoders.

The datasheet mentions options like WP7K-SPIbus TD, but it seems only decode is available on WP7K, not triggering - is that true?

Or maybe it's just the old datasheet, and the later XStream software lifted this limitation (if not then it is a bit off-putting that such high end scope cannot do such basic stuff).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: w2hx on April 06, 2017, 01:22:02 pm
I don't have the exact answer for your question, but my understanding is that TD means Triggering and Decoding, I would just contact lecroy support and ask them. They're support seems extremely responsive (so far).
Good luck
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 06, 2017, 08:21:49 pm
Hi, Eugene,
If for you it will not be hard, please ask the same for them: they can sell 8 rear legs for LeCroy 7k and a set of control knobs for the front panel. Also, maybe it makes sense once again to ask about the front plastic frame, although  there have already reported  that they do not sell this part.

Thanks in advance.

As for the front panel for DVD, there really are several leading manufacturers of such drives, in which the front panel mount is different. If you desire, you can still find suitable compatible front panels for replacement. Or change the drive itself :)
Let me know the model of your DVD drive.
In fact, the design of the front panel is not strictly defined. Depending on the destination, the manufacturer supplies the drive with different versions of the front panel. You can write to Google your drive model and you will see many options panels.

Many times I did upgrade to the DVD drive in measuring instruments (since the days of mainframe TLA714) and I always managed to find a flat front panel. Currently, my LeCroy 7K has a motorized sata DVD drive, which does not have this unreliable "tongue-stand". He independently tightens and pushes the disc directly.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: tomshao on April 10, 2017, 10:52:44 am
Just want you guys to know that I had dxl's win7 front panel driver installed on my DDA-3000 running Windows XP. It works quite well. Before that and after I upgrade the old P4 2.5g to a P4 3.2GE, the front panel behaved weird.

Thank you @Wuerstchenhund, you helped me to root the cause. :scared:
Thank you @dxl, your driver solved the problem.  :-DD :-DD
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: edrtu on April 17, 2017, 04:46:13 pm
Thank you for your drive, my DDA3000 successfully upgraded to win7.
In order to AGP, I bought a 775 socket 865 chipset motherboard. Upgrade CPU, software upgrade to XP, single CPU, no problem, but the use of CPU dual core  control panel LED will be a mess.
Windows upgrade to Win7, DXL driver can not be used. The exception of graphics drivers, I think this should be the motherboard chip too old, win7 can not identify.
Later bought a H61 chipset motherboard, PCI drive exception, found that H61 does not support the PCI, motherboard PCI is converted by the PCIe.
Finally bought a ASUS p8q77, everything goes well. Bought a 10.4 inch display, with a touch screen, 1024*768 resolution, remove the shell, mounted on the DDA3000, motherboard and monitor with VGA.
English is not good, by translation software, I hope you can understand.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on May 24, 2017, 10:37:58 pm
Hello,

I just acquired a DDA-5005 with processor speed 863MHz ,512MB,Firmware Version   6.8.1.4. No info on processor or motherboard yet  since I did not recieved it yet.

Have some questions,
1 - is it possible to upgrade to version 8.X ? wher do I find the complete software with drivers? 
2 - what motherboard /processor should I upgrade to ?  and harddisk.
3 - Any LCD display upgrade options ?
3 - Should I go for win7?


Many thanks in advance!

George

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 24, 2017, 11:25:37 pm
Hello George,

You can apply a more modern motherboard micro-ATX and sata-SSD.
For the processor, enough to have a 1-2 core with a maximum operating frequency and a modern, efficient pipelines.
The most optimal, probably should be a platform:

Motherboard LGA1156, i5-680 processor (3.6 GHz);
Motherboard LGA1155, processor i3-3250 (3.5 GHz);
Motherboard LGA1150, processor i3-4370 (3.8 GHz)

In order not to alter the mount, I used LCD matrix NL10276BC20-04 (1024x768), which in the mounting dimensions is identical to the original NL8060BC26-17 (800x600). But you can use any other LCD.

You will also need a new skaler (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=VGA+LCD+Controller&_sacat=0) for the format 1024x768. For its installation, you can use the connection to the HAV output of a separate discrete video card (PCI-e), or as well as albertruse a motherboard (similar to the Advantech AIMB-581), where the LVDS is present on board.
You must use the new Win7 or Win XP driver from Sven. Modern motherboards no longer support WinXP. Therefore, the choice of operating system depends on this.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on May 25, 2017, 02:12:04 pm
Hello George,

You can apply a more modern motherboard mini-ATX and sata-SSD.
For the processor, enough to have a 1-2 core with a maximum operating frequency and a modern, efficient pipelines.
The most optimal, probably should be a platform:

Motherboard LGA1156, i5-680 processor (3.6 GHz);
Motherboard LGA1155, processor i3-3250 (3.5 GHz);
Motherboard LGA1150, processor i3-4370 (3.8 GHz)

In order not to alter the mount, I used LCD matrix NL10276DC20-04 (1024x768), which in the mounting dimensions is identical to the original NL8060BC26-17 (800x600). But you can use any other LCD.

You will also need a new skaler (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=VGA+LCD+Controller&_sacat=0) for the format 1024x768. For its installation, you can use the connection to the HAV output of a separate discrete video card (PCI-e), or as well as albertruse a motherboard (similar to the Advantech AIMB-581), where the LVDS is present on board.
You must use the new Win7 or Win XP driver from Sven. Modern motherboards no longer support WinXP. Therefore, the choice of operating system depends on this.

Thanks for the information. I can see that you are using Asrock motherboard, what is the modell number ?  regarding the 1024x768 display, any benefits from that when running the x-stream software compaired to the original? also, I can see that you are using a seperate graphic card, is it for the 1024x768 display by using a scaler card to genrate the LVDS signals?
Thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 25, 2017, 02:45:35 pm
In order not to alter the mount, I used LCD matrix NL10276DC20-04 (1024x768), which in the mounting dimensions is identical to the original NL8060BC26-17 (800x600). But you can use any other LCD.
I thought you mounted an iPad display in your Wavepro 7300?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on May 25, 2017, 03:10:43 pm
"Upgraded" WP7K1 to 1024x768 XGA LCD panel with LED backlight. Touchscreen is still a 4 wire resistive type, so the same TS serial driver works and TS can be turned on/off or calibrated from LeCroy X-Stream application. Backlight intensity is controlled from X-Stream application as well the same way as it was with the original fluorescent bulb backlight. Front panel seems to work fine with Sven's driver.

-albertr

Hello,

Did you also replaced the Touchscreen ?
Thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 25, 2017, 07:14:18 pm
Thanks for the information. I can see that you are using Asrock motherboard, what is the modell number ?  regarding the 1024x768 display, any benefits from that when running the x-stream software compaired to the original? also, I can see that you are using a seperate graphic card, is it for the 1024x768 display by using a scaler card to genrate the LVDS signals?
Thanks
Yes, you understood correctly.
I used an arbitrary motherboard 1150-socket microATX, which for me it was profitable to buy in eBay. And on which there are PCI slots. This is ASRock H97M Pro4.
The 800x600 format is insufficient in terms of graphics quantization on the display. To date, the industry standard is already 1024x768 and even higher, for this class of oscilloscopes.
Just like me, you can use any discrete graphics card in the PCI-e slot. You will only need to gently connect the scaler module to the DVI or VGA (DE15F) output of the video card inside the oscilloscope housing. I use the second port of an external monitor for this.
Glass touchscreen can leave the original (4 pin), or install any other with a separate touchscreen controller module that supports Windows. You can even apply a capacitive touchscreen system.

In order not to alter the mount, I used LCD matrix NL10276BC20-04 (1024x768), which in the mounting dimensions is identical to the original NL8060BC26-17 (800x600). But you can use any other LCD.
I thought you mounted an iPad display in your Wavepro 7300?

I'm still considering this possibility. The fact is that with all the advantages and a great high-resolution image, the fonts become too small.

Sergey.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on May 25, 2017, 09:06:31 pm
I used an arbitrary motherboard 1150-socket miniATX, which for me it was profitable to buy in eBay. And on which there are PCI slots. This is ASRock H97M Pro4.

Interestingly, this motherboard does PCI by employing ASM1083 PCIe->PCI bridge. Therefore it seems that using PCIe->PCI adapters (often based on similar chip) is doable.

I recently scored WaveRunner 6100A and I'm in the process of upgrading it. The goal is to use ASRock IMB-181-L motherboard (industrial, has LVDS - didn't want scaler as it is a bit messy), i7-4770, 8GB RAM and SSD. I'm also upgrading the original 8.4" 800x600 LCD to 1024x768 (AA084XA03) - unfortunately the mounting holes are different so things got a bit drastic, especially for the panel.

The biggest issue is the front panel, as it is done with a H8S microcontroller with buggy USB stack, thus it won't work with EHCI rate matching controllers on newer motherboards. I'll be trying various options to solve this problem.

Another, minor, issue is the touch screen controller - UR7HCTS2-USB. It works, as it is a HID device, but I cannot find drivers (i.e. calibration tool) anywhere. LeCroy software supports drivers from https://touch-base.com/. This company also did the driver for this Semtech chip, but now the best I could get is a trial version from them that shows annoying popup every 100 taps. This company seems to be making drivers for various touch screen chips, for example for Microchip AR1100, for which the non-trial driver is available on Microchip's website, so maybe I'll replace the original chip with the Microchip one.

I'll report my findings in a new thread when I'll finish the upgrades and iron out various bugs.

BTW Sergey are you the one that described TLA704->TLA715 upgrade (with TLA721) on now defunct realstrannik forum? I never really learned Russian properly and forgot the alphabet long ago, but with the help of Google Translate I managed to upgrade my TLA704 last year  :-+
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 26, 2017, 01:31:21 pm
Interestingly, this motherboard does PCI by employing ASM1083 PCIe->PCI bridge. Therefore it seems that using PCIe->PCI adapters (often based on similar chip) is doable.

I recently scored WaveRunner 6100A and I'm in the process of upgrading it. The goal is to use ASRock IMB-181-L motherboard (industrial, has LVDS - didn't want scaler as it is a bit messy), i7-4770, 8GB RAM and SSD. I'm also upgrading the original 8.4" 800x600 LCD to 1024x768 (AA084XA03) - unfortunately the mounting holes are different so things got a bit drastic, especially for the panel.

The biggest issue is the front panel, as it is done with a H8S microcontroller with buggy USB stack, thus it won't work with EHCI rate matching controllers on newer motherboards. I'll be trying various options to solve this problem.

Another, minor, issue is the touch screen controller - UR7HCTS2-USB. It works, as it is a HID device, but I cannot find drivers (i.e. calibration tool) anywhere. LeCroy software supports drivers from https://touch-base.com/. (https://touch-base.com/.) This company also did the driver for this Semtech chip, but now the best I could get is a trial version from them that shows annoying popup every 100 taps. This company seems to be making drivers for various touch screen chips, for example for Microchip AR1100, for which the non-trial driver is available on Microchip's website, so maybe I'll replace the original chip with the Microchip one.

I'll report my findings in a new thread when I'll finish the upgrades and iron out various bugs.
Hi,

Perhaps you could refuse to use UR7HCTS2-USB in favor of some other discrete touchscreen-controller board?

BTW Sergey are you the one that described TLA704->TLA715 upgrade (with TLA721) on now defunct realstrannik forum? I never really learned Russian properly and forgot the alphabet long ago, but with the help of Google Translate I managed to upgrade my TLA704 last year  :-+
Thank you. Yes, this is my publication since December, 2015 (http://realstrannik.com/forum/freeenergylt-antanas/5-oborudovanie-dlya-masterskoj?start=108#34668). But the realstrannik.com regularly works and now.
I can imagine how hard it was for you to translate this into English, because when you publish material only for a Russian-speaking audience, you do not use a strict official style, there's a lot of specific slang.

Sergey.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on May 26, 2017, 01:48:04 pm
Perhaps you could refuse to use UR7HCTS2-USB in favor of some other discrete touchscreen-controller board?

I have one of these $5 USB to touch screen boards from eBay China - these are even worse. It is not a HID device and the drivers are not made by touch-base.com therefore no nice integration with the XStream software.

In the worst case I'll make my own front panel board with AR1100 for the touch screen and some STM32 with USB interfacing to the front panel controls PCB. The protocol seems to be relatively simple, it looks like a custom HID device that sends button presses or encoder deltas with timestamps and accepts commands to turn LEDs on and off. Probably there are some control transfers to get the FW version - it is reported in the service menu (or maybe production or developer level of access menu, I don't remember).

Thank you. Yes, this is my publication since December, 2015 (http://realstrannik.com/forum/freeenergylt-antanas/5-oborudovanie-dlya-masterskoj?start=108#34668). But the realstrannik.com regularly works and now.

Good job! My old bookmarked link didn't work so I thought the website is not functional anymore.

I got my TLA704 from nctnico who already upgraded the display to XGA. Then I got TLA721 for decent price and followed your guidelines. I didn't bother with a lot of cutting to fit the DVD and USB ports - cutting the CPU heatsink with an angle grinder was enough MechEng for me :), so I removed the FDD and mounted 2 USB ports there on a piece of sheet metal. I've only connected the DVD when installing WinXP. Instead of the HDD I use an mSATA drive I had lying around, inside a mSATA to SATA adapter connected to a SATA to IDE adapter :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 26, 2017, 05:19:41 pm
I have one of these $5 USB to touch screen boards from eBay China - these are even worse. It is not a HID device and the drivers are not made by touch-base.com therefore no nice integration with the XStream software.

I have a pair of some Chinese USB touchscreen controllers (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=294572;image), which I did not even buy, but at random I have them. On one of them I see a microcontroller ATmega8L + CY7C63723C (USB interface I / O controller). On the second - some Chinese specialized controller HB45V033 (http://chinatp.com.cn/shop/product_view.aspx?id=16300) + FT24C02A EEPROM.
It seems I used ATouch 3.2.1 software with them. And they both work fine. In any case, I did not notice any problems during the test connection to LeCroy WP7K - you may have already seen my video: « Reply #84 on: February 25, 2017, 01:49:46 AM » (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144486/#msg1144486)

Good job! My old bookmarked link didn't work so I thought the website is not functional anymore.

I got my TLA704 from nctnico who already upgraded the display to XGA. Then I got TLA721 for decent price and followed your guidelines. I didn't bother with a lot of cutting to fit the DVD and USB ports - cutting the CPU heatsink with an angle grinder was enough MechEng for me :), so I removed the FDD and mounted 2 USB ports there on a piece of sheet metal. I've only connected the DVD when installing WinXP. Instead of the HDD I use an mSATA drive I had lying around, inside a mSATA to SATA adapter connected to a SATA to IDE adapter :)

Interesting information.
How did you get XGA? Did you change the BIOS firmware and used the original TTL video output line from the motherboard, or did you use the scaler to use the D-Sub analog video port?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 26, 2017, 05:42:55 pm
Lukier has my old TLA704. Initially I hacked the GRUB bootloader to change the display to XGA before booting into Windows 2000. Later on somebody hacked the BIOS to start with XGA. For the rest it is just a matter of connecting an XGA TFT panel to the existing panel connector.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on May 26, 2017, 05:56:46 pm
I have a pair of some Chinese USB touchscreen controllers (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=294572;image), which I did not even buy, but at random I have them. On one of them I see a microcontroller ATmega8L + CY7C63723C (USB interface I / O controller). On the second - some Chinese specialized controller HB45V033 (http://chinatp.com.cn/shop/product_view.aspx?id=16300) + FT24C02A EEPROM.
It seems I used ATouch 3.2.1 software with them. And they both work fine. In any case, I did not notice any problems during the test connection to LeCroy WP7K - you may have already seen my video: « Reply #84 on: February 25, 2017, 01:49:46 AM » (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144486/#msg1144486)

The one I have also has the Cypress MCU and some touchscreen ADC chip, something like XPT2046. It shows up as a vendor specific device (not HID) under the name eGalaxy. I'm sure these boards work - it is just that the XStream software, when you press the calibrate button is looking for tbupdd.dll/tbupdd.cpl - stuff from touch-base.com

How did you get XGA? Did you change the BIOS firmware and used the original TTL video output line from the motherboard, or did you use the scaler to use the D-Sub analog video port?

AFAIR the panel that nctnico used has parallel interface as well, so no parallel to LVDS chip needed, but nctnico might correct me on that since it's been a while since I've opened my TLA704/715. I'm not sure if the BIOS hack is necessary after modding to TLA715 - worked out of the box for me.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 26, 2017, 06:05:06 pm
The TLA715 has 800x600 as standard (I have a real TLA715 BTW).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 26, 2017, 06:10:40 pm
The one I have also has the Cypress MCU and some touchscreen ADC chip, something like XPT2046. It shows up as a vendor specific device (not HID) under the name eGalaxy. I'm sure these boards work - it is just that the XStream software, when you press the calibrate button is looking for tbupdd.dll/tbupdd.cpl - stuff from touch-base.com

Now I understand. You just want to keep this function directly in the X-stream menu. But this is not too important, because in the menu Programs of Windows there will be a separate utility for this.
You did not think about the possibility of adding a touchscreen to your mainframe TLA? :)
I just did not have time to try it, because at the moment my TLA is sold.

Lukier has my old TLA704. Initially I hacked the GRUB bootloader to change the display to XGA before booting into Windows 2000. Later on somebody hacked the BIOS to start with XGA. For the rest it is just a matter of connecting an XGA TFT panel to the existing panel connector.
Thanks for clarifying. Can I download this image somewhere to update the TLA BIOS in XGA?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on May 26, 2017, 06:36:22 pm
The TLA715 has 800x600 as standard (I have a real TLA715 BTW).

You got me curious, so I've booted the TLA704 and it seems I mixed things up (I'm working now on my LeCroy XGA LCD upgrade :), hate crimping and looming cables, these LVDS connectors are tiny ). Originally TLA704 had 640x480, you've upgraded that to 800x600 and that's why it worked out of the box - I thought it was upgraded to XGA.

I don't think I'm going to bother about that - it is not as important to have high res panel there as it is for the oscilloscope and I use it via KVM or remotely anyway.

But this is not too important,

I know  :D It's just if I'm going to have to do my own MCU board to get back the front panel functionality (if I cannot get this buggy H8S MCU talk to USB 2.0 controllers) I'd rather go with AR1100 (it is cheap as well) than these $5 boards.

You did not think about the possibility of adding a touchscreen to your mainframe TLA? :)
I just did not have time to try it, because at the moment my TLA is sold.

I could use the $5 eBay board there, but I doubt I would bother - it is not so important for the logic analyzer.
I have a lot of reverse engineering to do with the WaveRunner 6100A - the front panel, the bugs with PCIe->PCI bridges and in the long term rewriting the LecS65AcqDrv.sys driver to enable x64 Windows (now limited to 32 bit only which is silly, unfortunately LeCroy doesn't recompile and ship the drivers in new releases).

Thanks for clarifying. Can I download this image somewhere to update the BIOS in XGA?

I wonder if anyone did it. I mixed up the resolutions, so yeah I have whatever stock BIOS was on the TLA721.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on May 26, 2017, 06:41:28 pm
Used the Wavepro for a few hours now and haven't seen any problems with the drivers on windows 7. Hope it stays that way  8)
Thank you for good news.
You have used the latest version X-Stream 8.1.0.1 with LeCroy site?(http://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=11 (http://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=11))
This software contains everything you need to install on pure operating system and the full functionality of your drivers (without upgrade pre-installed older versions Xstream)? Just someone who wrote that latest version of update does not contain some important parts required for a clean installation.
(If it had been possible to use Xstream64 8.0.1.2  ::) )

Hi,

it should work to install a clean Win7, the XStream drivers afterwards, and than the LeCroy XStream 8.1 Release. However i didn't test this as i did all driver debugging/inf file rewriting on my scope, so i don't have a fresh copy of Win7. And i'm to lazy to erase the Win7 and reinstall everything again ;). So it would be nice if users report whether the package works for them or whether there are still some problems. Oh, and i'm using the XStream 8.1 32 bit software on my scope.

I also noted that i didn't put my version of the frontpanel driver in the last zip, so here's another one ;)

Great job and thank you for the drivers,
One question,  now I have win2K win x-Stream v6.X installed. If I do a fresh  win7 install and install v8.X with your drivers on a new disk  ,  how should I restore the calibration data stored before? there were some posts earlier on creating partition D: etc... Can you please explain .
Thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 26, 2017, 07:09:31 pm
Great job and thank you for the drivers,
One question,  now I have win2K win x-Stream v6.X installed. If I do a fresh  win7 install and install v8.X with your drivers on a new disk  ,  how should I restore the calibration data stored before? there were some posts earlier on creating partition D: etc... Can you please explain .
Thanks
I would just copy the contents of the folders with the calibrations in the order that it was originally, so as not to think about it for long. Only after this, do the first X-Stream launch (to avoid annoying messages). But maybe someone will give advice to use the built-in X-Stream restore function for calibrations.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on May 31, 2017, 03:48:20 pm
"Upgraded" WP7K1 to 1024x768 XGA LCD panel with LED backlight. Touchscreen is still a 4 wire resistive type, so the same TS serial driver works and TS can be turned on/off or calibrated from LeCroy X-Stream application. Backlight intensity is controlled from X-Stream application as well the same way as it was with the original fluorescent bulb backlight. Front panel seems to work fine with Sven's driver.

-albertr

Hello,

Did you also replaced the Touchscreen ?
Thanks

I did. The new 1024x768 LCD panel had a 4-wire restive touchscreen glued in already (the same way as the original 800x600 LCD panel had), so I replaced the whole LCD/TS assembly. Since the touchscreen interface was the same type as before, I didn't have to change any drivers/software, just re-connected 4 TS wires to the same serial port connector as before.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on May 31, 2017, 03:51:33 pm
If someone can positively confirm that specific PCIe-2-PCI bridge chip can be used on WP7K series without introducing any problems with LeCroy PCI board, then it opens up a whole new word of upgrade possibilities for these old scopes!  :-+

-albertr

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on June 01, 2017, 01:37:28 am
If someone can positively confirm that specific PCIe-2-PCI bridge chip can be used on WP7K series without introducing any problems with LeCroy PCI board, then it opens up a whole new word of upgrade possibilities for these old scopes!  :-+

I was playing a bit with PCIe-PCI bridges in my WR6KA and it does create some problems. Some adapters are lousy mechanically, some cause communication timeouts and errors like SWTriggerThreshold failed, but usually during the XStream start-up/calibration, later it works OK it seems. I'll be investigating this further.

Bear in mind that the PCI card in WaveRunner is different from the WP7K one. Also, notice that Converter's ASRock motherboard implements PCI slots by using the PCIe bridge chip as I've mentioned before. It has probably better signal integrity than lousy ebay adapters.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on June 01, 2017, 08:13:02 pm
"Upgraded" WP7K1 to 1024x768 XGA LCD panel with LED backlight. Touchscreen is still a 4 wire resistive type, so the same TS serial driver works and TS can be turned on/off or calibrated from LeCroy X-Stream application. Backlight intensity is controlled from X-Stream application as well the same way as it was with the original fluorescent bulb backlight. Front panel seems to work fine with Sven's driver.

-albertr

Hello,

Did you also replaced the Touchscreen ?
Thanks

I did. The new 1024x768 LCD panel had a 4-wire restive touchscreen glued in already (the same way as the original 800x600 LCD panel had), so I replaced the whole LCD/TS assembly. Since the touchscreen interface was the same type as before, I didn't have to change any drivers/software, just re-connected 4 TS wires to the same serial port connector as before.

-albertr

Thanks for the information, what is the model number of  the LCD panel with LED backlight you used ?  did you rebuild the old inverter interface for the floressant backlight to drive the LED:s instead?  or you used a seperate  diaplay card with LVDS and LED backligt driver connected to the VGA/hdmi port of the graphic card of the motherboard ?
Thanks again
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on June 02, 2017, 03:31:27 am
Thanks for the information, what is the model number of  the LCD panel with LED backlight you used ?  did you rebuild the old inverter interface for the floressant backlight to drive the LED:s instead?  or you used a seperate  diaplay card with LVDS and LED backligt driver connected to the VGA/hdmi port of the graphic card of the motherboard ?
Thanks again

I believe it's already been covered on this thread. Here it goes again:

I'm using Advantech AIMB-581 board which has two DVI ports (one external, one - internal) and one internal LVDS port paired with Chi Mei Innolux G104X1-L03 1024x768 10.4" LCD screen. Multi-monitor support works with Intel HD graphic. Here're some pictures in case you are interested: http://iral.com/~albertr/WP7K1_LCD_upgrade/ (http://iral.com/~albertr/WP7K1_LCD_upgrade/)

Personally, I wouldn't go higher than 1024x768 (XGA) resolution on a 10.4" size, since IMHO it will become difficult to read the screen and operate the touch screen.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on June 03, 2017, 01:05:33 pm
Thanks for the information, what is the model number of  the LCD panel with LED backlight you used ?  did you rebuild the old inverter interface for the floressant backlight to drive the LED:s instead?  or you used a seperate  diaplay card with LVDS and LED backligt driver connected to the VGA/hdmi port of the graphic card of the motherboard ?
Thanks again

I believe it's already been covered on this thread. Here it goes again:

I'm using Advantech AIMB-581 board which has two DVI ports (one external, one - internal) and one internal LVDS port paired with Chi Mei Innolux G104X1-L03 1024x768 10.4" LCD screen. Multi-monitor support works with Intel HD graphic. Here're some pictures in case you are interested: http://iral.com/~albertr/WP7K1_LCD_upgrade/ (http://iral.com/~albertr/WP7K1_LCD_upgrade/)

Personally, I wouldn't go higher than 1024x768 (XGA) resolution on a 10.4" size, since IMHO it will become difficult to read the screen and operate the touch screen.

-albertr

Thanks , sorry did not read the previous posts.  Just tried to find one  G104X1-L03 with   10.4" TS 4 wire but did not succeed, can I use the old 10.7" TS from the Lecroy instead on the G104X1-L03?
Kind regards
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on June 05, 2017, 01:23:27 am
It would be much easier to use the size of the panel as the original one (i.e. 10.4" for WP7K), otherwise you will have to deal with front trim fitment issues.  I do have a few G104X1-L03 1024x768 10.4" LCD panel with 4 wire resistive touchscreen still in the original packing from manufacturer which I can sell for $60 a piece + actual shipping costs. If you want one, please drop me a message offline.

-albertr

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on June 29, 2017, 09:14:42 pm
Hello,

I did a fresh install of XP and X-Stream 8.X in my DDA-3000 (WP7300)  , all ok  but have problems with the correct drivers for the GPIB option.  I installed the drives for the PCI-GPIB from NS homepage , they are ok in windows but when starting X-Srteam it gives an error on startup saying : GPIB drives not found.
Is these a special driver to work with X-Stream ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 30, 2017, 10:41:58 am
Hello,

I did a fresh install of XP and X-Stream 8.X in my DDA-3000 (WP7300)  , all ok  but have problems with the correct drivers for the GPIB option.  I installed the drives for the PCI-GPIB from NS homepage , they are ok in windows but when starting X-Srteam it gives an error on startup saying : GPIB drives not found.
Is these a special driver to work with X-Stream ?

NI drivers don't help because they turn the scope into a controller when it needs to be a device (terminal).

The correct GPIB drivers are part of the X-Stream package (you might have to select them manually). You'll have to fully remove the NI drivers first for the LeCroy drivers to work, though.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: joeqsmith on June 30, 2017, 05:33:48 pm
I'm guessing the EEVBLOG admin must have changed something for you to post again.   No matter.  Good to see you back.   
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on July 01, 2017, 07:38:26 am
Hello,

I did a fresh install of XP and X-Stream 8.X in my DDA-3000 (WP7300)  , all ok  but have problems with the correct drivers for the GPIB option.  I installed the drives for the PCI-GPIB from NS homepage , they are ok in windows but when starting X-Srteam it gives an error on startup saying : GPIB drives not found.
Is these a special driver to work with X-Stream ?

NI drivers don't help because they turn the scope into a controller when it needs to be a device (terminal).

The correct GPIB drivers are part of the X-Stream package (you might have to select them manually). You'll have to fully remove the NI drivers first for the LeCroy drivers to work, though.

You are completely right,   I have to manually choose the  GPIB adapter drivers during the installation of X-Stream. Thanks for your help  :)  Also, is the DDA-3000 based on WP7300 or WP7300A ?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on July 01, 2017, 06:46:47 pm
I'm guessing the EEVBLOG admin must have changed something for you to post again.   No matter.  Good to see you back.

Thanks for the nice words. No admin change, back then I just decided to no longer post, but some nice people asked me to reconsider.

Also, is the DDA-3000 based on WP7300 or WP7300A ?

The DDA3000 was initially based on the WavePro 7300 (and like the WavePro was originally sold running W2k) but later versions were based on the WP7300A. Note that the difference between WP7k and WP7kA are negligible (i.e. different front end where the 'A' variant requires recalibration less often, faster CPU and more RAM, XP instead of W2k, 2x USB instead of floppy) and that a WP7k/early DDA3k can be upgraded to Windows XP.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lowtension on July 02, 2017, 08:08:31 am
I'm guessing the EEVBLOG admin must have changed something for you to post again.   No matter.  Good to see you back.

Thanks for the nice words. No admin change, back then I just decided to no longer post, but some nice people asked me to reconsider.

Also, is the DDA-3000 based on WP7300 or WP7300A ?

Thanks again for your valuable information and keeping this thread alive again :)

The DDA3000 was initially based on the WavePro 7300 (and like the WavePro was originally sold running W2k) but later versions were based on the WP7300A. Note that the difference between WP7k and WP7kA are negligible (i.e. different front end where the 'A' variant requires recalibration less often, faster CPU and more RAM, XP instead of W2k, 2x USB instead of floppy) and that a WP7k/early DDA3k can be upgraded to Windows XP.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on August 17, 2017, 04:19:33 pm

'saw this thread a bit late (...)

Just for info: if one plans using an industrial motherboard and in particular the LVDS video connector (assuming you can get your hands on the corresponding LVDS cable...), pay attention to have a board where the BIOS eventually supports inverting the signal that controls the backlight's intensity... with a Kontron board, I had to 'invert' the signal with a little home-made circuit... (not a drama, but if you can avoid it with a BIOS settings...).
Another point is the compatibility of the front panel controller (using a Cypress MCU) with the USB ports on the motherboard, my personal experience shows that anything more recent that Intel's series 6 chipset will NOT work...

And yet another feedback: with a WR6K, I had mixed success with W7 and a quad-core CPU (I7 3770T), I got periodical freezes, requiring hard reset... a Core 2 Duo brought much less problems, but I couldn't isolate the problem to be CPU-bound...


Have fun modding your Lecroy beasts !!
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on August 17, 2017, 05:14:25 pm

'saw this thread a bit late (...)

Just for info: if one plans using an industrial motherboard and in particular the LVDS video connector (assuming you can get your hands on the corresponding LVDS cable...), pay attention to have a board where the BIOS eventually supports inverting the signal that controls the backlight's intensity... with a Kontron board, I had to 'invert' the signal with a little home-made circuit... (not a drama, but if you can avoid it with a BIOS settings...).
Another point is the compatibility of the front panel controller (using a Cypress MCU) with the USB ports on the motherboard, my personal experience shows that anything more recent that Intel's series 6 chipset will NOT work...

And yet another feedback: with a WR6K, I had mixed success with W7 and a quad-core CPU (I7 3770T), I got periodical freezes, requiring hard reset... a Core 2 Duo brought much less problems, but I couldn't isolate the problem to be CPU-bound...


Have fun modding your Lecroy beasts !!

I've spent some time modding my WR6100A, testing various approaches and platforms and my conclusions are as such:

* bought Asrock IMB-181-L ITX industrial motherboard (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382070632688 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382070632688) - the price is good) and Core i7-4770. The LVDS worked OK, but I didn't check the backlight control pin, just wired 12V and jumpered the control on the CCFL inverted provided by LeCroy (8mA23002 by ERG).
* I've also upgraded the LCD to 8.4" XGA (1024x768), Mitsubishi model AA084XA03, with some rewiring and swapping the connectors the CCFL inverter can power this panel without a trouble. I also bought some random 8.4" resistive 4-wire touch digitizer. This is a big improvement, but unfortunately despite the same display sizes, the mechanical details are different, therefore a lot of butchery of the plastic and metal, both on the panel and LeCroy side was required - not for the faint-hearted (had to disassemble the panel into layers for example or dremel LeCroy's plastics) and doesn't look very pretty inside.
* crappy Iwatsu front panel controller will work with Intel up to Q45 chipset, later the introduction of rate matching hubs messes something up and even plugging old USB hubs inline won't help. There is a way out of this by installing a separate USB controller. In my case it was mini-PCIe card (only left PCIe slot on an ITX board) with µPD720202 USB 3.0 controller and the front panel connected to the USB 2.0 lines. Now the front panel works.
* on the subject of front panel devices, I hate the touch screen chip there (UR7HCTS2-USB), some long obsolete IC for which there is no driver available. It is not provided with X-Stream, LeCroy only provides tbupdd.dll file (no inf files or calib. app) with XStream, which I guess is used by the X-Stream app to launch the calibration app. The drivers are made by a company called Touch-Base (https://touch-base.com/ (https://touch-base.com/)) that develops drivers for various touch screen chips and one can request a trial-driver for a particular chip from them. It works, but every 100 clicks it shows an annoying message. That's why I'm thinking about replacing this chip with Microchip AR1100, it also uses Touch-Base drivers (therefore compatible with X-Stream) but Microchip provides them free of charge.

Now the scope PC is super fast, has high resolution display over LVDS, both front panel and touch screen work, but there is a big elephant (or two) in the room - the PCI interface.

I bought 3 different PCIe to PCI adapters, based on various chipsets, of different mechanical and connectivity approaches. In theory all of them work, but in practice none of them. Some are super crappy mechanically, don't fit reliably. The PCI card works in all of them, gets detected, driver is loaded and beeps and the scope works more or less. Usually with hiccups and error messages, sometimes more, sometimes just SWTriggerThreshold search failed (some errors are only visible in the developer logs). Usually, after the initial errors and after few internal calibration cycles things sort themselves out and the scope works.

My guess it has something to do with shared IRQs and the different way the PCIe interrupts work. Disabling on-board devices that wanted to share the IRQ improved things a bit, but not entirely because well the PCIe-to-PCI adapter chipset shares the same IRQ and there was some other thing (mobo chipset) that I couldn't disable in the BIOS. If the LecS65AcqDrv.sys driver could be rewritten (unlikely) to accommodate for modern PCIe/IRQ approaches (maybe some extra critical sections etc), then I guess the X-Stream app would work without these hiccups.

The second elephant in the room is, well, x32. Not much use of i7-4770 and 8GB of RAM on Windows 7 x32. There seems to be no way around this, even if one, by some miracle, rewrote and recompiled the LecS65AcqDrv.sys driver for x64 then I doubt the 64-bit version of the X-Stream app has the necessary DCOM modules (dlls) for old scopes.

Therefore, I'm leaning towards going back to my intermediate platform (the original LeCroy mobo was leaky and the CPU was a joke) - Intel DQ45CB motherboard with Q9400 and 4GB RAM. Recently, I scored an SDVO-LVDS card so I'll be trying to get the LVDS out of Intel graphics this way. If not I'll have to build some DVI to LVDS contraption and use a short DVI cable loop at the back to feed the front panel LCD from one of the rear DVI ports. Don't want to use monitor scaler boards as this is even messier and I don't know if it would support my particular panel.

If I find some time I want to do a benchmark - measure the trigger rate with some intensive functions turned on, e.g. 24Mpt FFT + math + measurements and compare how much faster i7-4770 (despite running in x32 mode) is over Q9400. If it is much faster then it may be worth to stay on i7-4770 and suffer the hiccups at the X-Stream app startup.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on August 17, 2017, 08:46:38 pm

as for the (LVDS) cables, I'd some positive experience with

http://en.esskabel.de (http://en.esskabel.de)

They can provide cables in small quantities, and they have qui a nice assortiment... maybe not the best, but here in Europe definitely an address to remember...
I got mine crimped but without connectors attached, that's the most flexible option... a bit boring, but nothing that couldn't be done with a magnifying lamp...

A board with an LVDS connector is definitely the preferred option for such a mod... some now have an internal DP port, but these mostly use chipsets that are not supported by the front panel...  (I also tried a PCIe USB controller for the front panel, without success...) 
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on August 17, 2017, 09:20:45 pm

as for the (LVDS) cables, I'd some positive experience with

http://en.esskabel.de (http://en.esskabel.de)

They can provide cables in small quantities, and they have qui a nice assortiment... maybe not the best, but here in Europe definitely an address to remember...
I got mine crimped but without connectors attached, that's the most flexible option... a bit boring, but nothing that couldn't be done with a magnifying lamp...
I just got connectors from RS Components/Farnell and crimped the cable myself. Hate making cables and it takes ages, but well I need Qty 1 and cheap. Now I need to make another one because Commell SDVO-LVDS card has the same connector as the Asrock motherboard (DF13-40DP-1.25V) but different pinout  |O

A board with an LVDS connector is definitely the preferred option for such a mod... some now have an internal DP port, but these mostly use chipsets that are not supported by the front panel... 
That's why I was very happy when I found the Asrock IMB-181-L board so cheaply. Other second hand boards with LVDS are either older generation than what was originally in LeCroy (welcome to the "industrial" world) or very expensive or both. That's why I don't have an LVDS equipped board for Core2Quad Q9400, just generic Intel reference design one (something suitable would be for example Commell LV-676 with LGA775 and LVDS and surprise surprise it is only 482 EUR - more than half what I paid for the scope). Therefore, I need to find a different way to get LVDS on Core2Quad, either this SDVO-LVDS card, my own DVI to LVDS converter out of 2 TI chips or a monitor scaler board.

(I also tried a PCIe USB controller for the front panel, without success...)
This combo works for me:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322544410608 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322544410608)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322544499602 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322544499602)

Beware of USB 2.0 mini-PCIe cards - these are not controllers, just hubs using the USB 2.0 lines in the mini-PCIe connector.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on August 17, 2017, 09:33:17 pm

If someone's interested, I might have some KTQ45 board(s) (flex format) from Kontron that fit perfectly into WR6Ks...
Definitely not the cheapest provider of industrial mob's, but almost none has that level of support...
I got also some board from BCM with an LVDS connector, but I think that one had the USB problem... I'll try with the controllers mentioned...

My WR6K lies disassembled in a drawer... but I feel this thread has given me the will to give it another try...  ;-)
And I liked that one (yet it's "only" the WR6050...), as it had ALL options enabled...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: steven4601 on August 21, 2017, 08:34:35 am
First Time poster on this Forum,

I like to thank everyone for their input on this subject. My upgrade went almost flawless.
My setup:
Wavepro 7200A
Asus P85M-e
Intel G3258
2x 2GB ram
Ipad 9.7 retina screen with abusemark eDP adapter.

Somehow, the Touch Screen does not work. I know the Touch panel works, as i can open the com Port in putty and touching the glas produces strings of characters (unreadable).

Windows & lecroy dso software does not recognized it.

I tried changing the com Port number from 3 to 1 but No result.

Is IT possible that the latest dso package from lecroy Missing some drivers?

//Steven
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: steven4601 on August 24, 2017, 05:38:53 am
Finally  found the right touch driver for the wp7200A

It's a 3m technology SC4 compatible digitizer. The markings on the chip are meaningless somehow. (RES4CHPSMT)
Tried Touch base updd driver  version 3.8.xx with success.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on August 24, 2017, 05:16:07 pm
Finally  found the right touch driver for the wp7200A

It's a 3m technology SC4 compatible digitizer. The markings on the chip are meaningless somehow. (RES4CHPSMT)
Tried Touch base updd driver  version 3.8.xx with success.

Where did you find the full version? Or just the trial provided by Touch Base (http://touch-base.com/download.asp (http://touch-base.com/download.asp))? I'm still looking for the full version driver for UR7HCTS2-USB.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: steven4601 on August 24, 2017, 07:27:30 pm
When I figured out what 'protocol' the touch screen digitizer spoke, "SC4" in my case, I found out touch base supported it.
Additionally I tried to rip the old driver from the original windows xp installation but (doube driver, the application i tried to extract the driver) that didn't yield a functional set of files.

Digging even further brought up a website with legacy drivers :
http://solutions.3mitalia.it/wps/portal/3M/it_IT/TouchSystems/TouchScreen/Information/LegacyDocuments/ (http://solutions.3mitalia.it/wps/portal/3M/it_IT/TouchSystems/TouchScreen/Information/LegacyDocuments/)

hope this helps.  :-+
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on August 29, 2017, 10:11:29 pm
Direct download link?
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/391535O/updd-3-8-rev34-driver.zip?fn=updd3_8_34.zip (http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/391535O/updd-3-8-rev34-driver.zip?fn=updd3_8_34.zip)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Johnswenson on October 05, 2017, 03:13:19 am
I just bought a Wavepro 7300 off of ebay, and found it does not show traces. I talked to Lecroy and they said it was the connection from the ADC module working loose in the PCI slot, just take the cover off and re-seat it. Unfortunately I have no idea how to take the top cover off.

I took the big handle off, the feet on the back and all the screws I can find and the top cover still will not come off.

I see lots of you have done this, so could someone please tell me how to take the top cover off.

BTW I want to use this for  awhile as is before attempting upgrades, but I probably will be doing that in the future.

Thanks,

John S.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on October 05, 2017, 03:36:20 am
You actually don't need to take the big handle off.

Pop off the rubber covers on the feet and remove the screws from the center.  Now flip the instrument upside down and back-out or remove the screws holding the bottom of the front panel frame down.   Gently pull the front panel frame off from the bottom and you will find a few more screws holding the case cover down that were hidden under the front panel frame.  Now you can remove the cover.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Johnswenson on October 05, 2017, 05:08:50 am
Thanks, that did it. I was sure the flimsy thing was going to crack, but a lot of careful wiggling got it off.

Thanks again,

John S.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Johnswenson on October 05, 2017, 07:17:02 am
I got the cover off, took the board out and put it back in. No difference. Took it out and cleaned the contacts on the board, put it back in.

This time Win2k did a new hardware check and installed a bunch of drivers.

Still no trace, but now I don't get calibrating all the time. So it looked like something changed, like now windows sees the card, but maybe didn't get the correct driver installed.

In device manager there is a driver for XStream DSO Devices, but when I click on details it says it is from Microsoft.

Is this the correct driver? Should I have it load a specific driver?

Thanks,

John S.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Johnswenson on October 05, 2017, 07:36:56 am
I'm not sure what happened, but after another reboot it is now working!

Thanks,

John S.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on October 05, 2017, 08:42:10 am
Wow, I'm surprised that was all it took to get it going.  Congratulations!

For your reference, the driver for the card is what's known as a multifunction device driver -- not to be confused with a multifunction PCI card as the interface card is only a single function.

What it means, though, is that multiple drivers can attach to the same piece of hardware.  The base driver is the one supplied by Microsoft, mf.sys for multi-function.  What you're seeing is totally normal.

In the device manager, select View->Show Hidden Devices and you should see all the LeCroy devices associated with the acquisition card.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: smartboy123 on April 04, 2018, 11:04:02 am

Where did you find the full version? Or just the trial provided by Touch Base (http://touch-base.com/download.asp (http://touch-base.com/download.asp))? I'm still looking for the full version driver for UR7HCTS2-USB.

Did you find the UR7HCTS2-USB driver? I can only download a trial version for my 6100A scope from touch-base website.
If you have, could you share with me?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on April 04, 2018, 01:01:45 pm
Did you find the UR7HCTS2-USB driver? I can only download a trial version for my 6100A scope from touch-base website.
If you have, could you share with me?

I didn't, it is gone from the internet it seems. Semtech is a shitty company that I won't touch with a stick now.

I've removed this chip from the board and wired in an Adafruit AR1100 board with the USB-Touch controller that is TouchBase compatible, but for which Microchip provides the drivers for free.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: smartboy123 on April 05, 2018, 05:27:43 am

I didn't, it is gone from the internet it seems. Semtech is a shitty company that I won't touch with a stick now.

I've removed this chip from the board and wired in an Adafruit AR1100 board with the USB-Touch controller that is TouchBase compatible, but for which Microchip provides the drivers for free.

Ok, I will follow you.
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on April 05, 2018, 06:03:28 pm

Not too sure what your exact problem is with the touch driver... but some drivers (especially for older scopes) have disappeared from recent XStream packages...
Get your hands on some 6.x version and check...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on April 10, 2018, 07:46:12 am
Is there anyone have idea about this?
(https://wx4.sinaimg.cn/mw690/6f7541d5ly1fq7lvceeofj21kw23vu0x.jpg)
(https://wx4.sinaimg.cn/mw690/6f7541d5ly1fq7lvblktdj21kw16o4qq.jpg)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on April 10, 2018, 07:54:31 am
There are some text logs that are floating around in the folders of the OS, but if I had to guess, there is probably some issue with one of the gigabit ethernet transceivers that talk between the PCI interface card and the acquisition board.  At least on my 7200 (non A) they use HDMP-1636A chips, several on the PCI card, one on the acquisition board, and two each on every ADC module, one for talking to the other ADCs, one for going directly back to the PCI card.

I'd check the color coded differential cables going between as a start, but the text logs could maybe point you to which one was an issue.  Especially if it comes back with a reboot, it could be that some intermittent error just made it stop altogether for safety, instead of a dead chip or something.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on April 10, 2018, 08:19:12 am
I 'll check to see whether some useful info. mine is WP7300(also not A). Tks!
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on April 11, 2018, 06:30:47 am
Still conjecture since I haven't seen that error, but looks like it could be PCI card interface related.  Maybe make sure the windows drivers think it's working, then maybe swap PCI slots if possible (don't remember if there's a spare).  If nothing there, the PCI bus control I think is done by an FPGA, but maybe you could check the power rails on the PCI card itself.

Still could be some other kind of interface issue, not sure if HardwareAccessPCI is actually referring to an issue regarding the card or it's just some kind of call that goes through it and could be other parts of the data transfer system.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on April 29, 2018, 05:45:38 am
Key point get!!!!!
sth wrong with main clock source.
It should be 10GHz but so many harmonic along with.
driver the clock splitter with RF signal generator. It works fine.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on April 29, 2018, 06:07:14 am
Well in that case, it's almost entirely on that board on a riser on the back of the instrument.  The 10MHz reference is on the underside, and the VCO in the big can on the left is controlled by a PLL in the same place.  Then, looking at the top of the board mounted normally with the BNCs of the input on the bottom, the signal just gets amplified a bunch of times - instead of a conventional doubler or multiplier circuit, it just keeps amplifying the signal's harmonics until they're big enough to be useable.  If you've got a thermal camera it could be real quick to find the problem part, but if you've got an SA that can see the 10GHz tone, you can probably just probe around and find it easy enough.  The signal goes left to right on the board, then down towards the front of the instrument to be split between the various timing outputs.


If you've got that thermal camera, this is what mine looked like when operating properly (from a WavePro 7200, probably the same board).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on April 29, 2018, 04:58:08 pm
My Board is quite different compare with yours. and its main clock generator is a more integrated modules.
A 100MHz Ocxo, a PLL with VCO, a 1:2 splitter and a 1:4 splitter.
finally the VCO is fault.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on April 29, 2018, 07:24:10 pm
Interesting, that may be how they got the tighter jitter specs on the 7X00A series instruments.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 29, 2018, 09:49:26 pm
I do not see this PCB having any differences in the subsequent units. Here is a photo of my 7300A, June 2008.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 29, 2018, 10:09:12 pm
It's really different, but in the SDA 6020 (WaveMaster category).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on May 01, 2018, 05:04:59 am
(http://wx3.sinaimg.cn/large/6f7541d5ly1fqvr80iny5j20u01404ir.jpg)

My ACQ Board
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 01, 2018, 04:36:55 pm

My ACQ Board
I saw such a design in LeCroy DDA-5005. Probably LeCroy likes to experiment with the options for bundling their instruments.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on May 02, 2018, 01:05:23 am
Or maybe they're reconfiguring standard models for specific customers, interesting to see so many variants, though.  I guess they're also spread out over the years and at least 2-3 kinds of PC boards in the top by default, so there was a lot of swapping that just happened over time even when the model numbers were the same.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on May 02, 2018, 10:17:56 am
My ACQ Board
Please use anti-static bags to put the board on! This is asking for problems!  :scared:
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: leon255 on May 13, 2018, 12:03:34 pm

Where did you find the full version? Or just the trial provided by Touch Base (http://touch-base.com/download.asp (http://touch-base.com/download.asp))? I'm still looking for the full version driver for UR7HCTS2-USB.

Did you find the UR7HCTS2-USB driver? I can only download a trial version for my 6100A scope from touch-base website.
If you have, could you share with me?

If you still need drivers for UR7HCTS2-USB use link http://global-files.net/7gbw5u (http://global-files.net/7gbw5u) folder "Tektronix\Semtec Touch Screen Calibrator" inside.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on May 13, 2018, 12:45:14 pm
If you still need drivers for UR7HCTS2-USB use link http://global-files.net/7gbw5u (http://global-files.net/7gbw5u) folder "Tektronix\Semtec Touch Screen Calibrator" inside.

Thanks! Might be useful at some point. For now I removed the Semtec chip and wired in an Adafruit AR1100 board.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on June 05, 2018, 02:49:55 pm
Update Mother Board, and front panel LCD connection:
dispart a OLD Video card with DVI interface. mount a  HDMI connector(Also TDMS signaling but smaller outline) inside direction.
(https://wx3.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/6f7541d5ly1fs0on6bwh4j22c03407wi.jpg)
(https://wx4.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/6f7541d5ly1fs0on7olzxj22c0340b2a.jpg)
(https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/6f7541d5ly1fs0on4znduj22c03404qq.jpg)

TMDS to DVP adapter with original SiI151.
(https://wx4.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/6f7541d5ly1fs0on3j5f4j22c0340qv5.jpg)
(https://wx3.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/6f7541d5ly1fs0omy4qz7j22c0340b2b.jpg)

glue at proper place.
(https://wx2.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/6f7541d5ly1fs0omvwwuij22c0340x6q.jpg)

and enjoy!



Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on June 05, 2018, 02:54:23 pm
EDID for NL8060BC26-17 in EEPROM

Code: [Select]
00000000h: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 51 F5 00 01 00 00 00 00 ; ..Q?.....
00000010h: 0F 0A 01 03 81 16 10 78 EF 0D C2 A0 57 47 98 27 ; ....?.x?聽WG?
00000020h: 12 48 4F 01 B0 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 ; .HO.?..........
00000030h: 01 01 01 01 01 01 A0 0F 20 00 31 58 42 20 28 80 ; ......? .1XB (€
00000040h: 74 08 F6 B8 00 00 00 1E 00 00 00 FD 00 32 41 18 ; t.龈.......?2A.
00000050h: 3C 07 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 ; <...............
00000060h: 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01    ; ...............
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: RussianE39 on June 21, 2018, 03:53:18 pm
Anyone tried XStream 8.5.1.1 software on WP7xxx series ? I've succesfully installed it on mine scope and still havent found any issues with this version.
Considering MB upgrade - I've used Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3V + Arctic Cooling Freezer 11 LP cooler + two LP DDR3 memory sticks without issues (you can even install SATA CDROM to original location).

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on June 21, 2018, 09:16:47 pm
It's funny that you ask because I just attempted to install 8.5.1.1 on my WP7300A last night.  First problem: 8.5.1.1 requires Windows 7 SP1.  Second problem: the WP7KA motherboard is very poorly supported by Windows 7 and the device manager says it doesn't have enough free resources to start the drivers for the PCI acquisition card.  So I guess I have to upgrade my motherboard and then install Windows 7 before I can try 8.5.1.1.

For the sake of others who may want to try it, you can find the 32-bit build of 8.5.1.1 on the firmware download page for the WS10.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: RussianE39 on June 24, 2018, 01:34:35 am
I'm using Win7 SP1 and non-Lecroy sourced Intel motherboard, so I had no troubles installing 8.5 XScale software. There is members, who already upgraded their scopes to more modern PC hardware and that's why I'm asking.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on June 24, 2018, 04:26:06 am
Yes I understand that as I have been following this thread for about a year now, I'm just providing information that I think people might find useful.

I purchased the parts to upgrade the computer in my scope about 10 months ago:  AIMB-581 MB and NEC NL10276BC20-04 LCD.  I finally made an LVDS cable for the MB and did the upgrade to Win7 right after my last post here.  I used DXL's modified drivers for Win7 and had no trouble installing X-Stream 8.5.1.1 32-bit.  I don't think it really gains us much over 8.1.0.1 / 8.1.2.0, though.  I think the main additions are for features that our scopes lack the hardware to support like triggering on protocol decode.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sergeyklenov on June 25, 2018, 11:23:47 am
Anyone know which option switch device to WP7300a model ?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on June 25, 2018, 12:31:22 pm
Anyone know which option switch device to WP7300a model ?

What are you trying to reach ??? DDA was an 'option' on top of the WP... you could eventually try to wipe that one in service mode, but I'm not too sure this is sufficient ??
For the Zi series, DDA option is 01-04000000, but it might be different for the WP7K... but anyway, in service mode, you should see which key enables 'DDA'...  but again, not too sure what you expect from this...???
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sergeyklenov on June 25, 2018, 02:10:54 pm
I only interesting. Now i have WP7300. But i see some pictures from WP7300a. So i think exists option for identity device as WP7300a and also use -XXL memory. Because -XXL only available on WP7300a.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on June 25, 2018, 03:46:34 pm
I believe the A series also comes with a different main processor (maybe the motherboard as well, though both of these changed over the sales lifetime of the scope), and it probably comes with a different 10GHz generation and distribution board - the jitter spec is notably lower than the regular series.

I guess there's a chance it's just a better internal timebase or lower phase noise VCO, though, in which case the board could still be the same.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sergeyklenov on June 25, 2018, 07:12:59 pm
I want solder memory for -XXL option and need know option mask for 'A'. Other not need ))

If any have 7x00a, please let know, which options installed and if possibly memory type.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on June 25, 2018, 07:25:09 pm
'A' is not an option mask on the WP7KA family and the memory, the MAM, is proprietary technology as far as I am aware.  This is getting off-topic for a thread about upgrading the MB...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on June 30, 2018, 10:12:50 am
EDID for NL8060BC26-17 in EEPROM

Code: [Select]
00000000h: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 51 F5 00 01 00 00 00 00 ; ..Q?.....
00000010h: 0F 0A 01 03 81 16 10 78 EF 0D C2 A0 57 47 98 27 ; ....?.x?聽WG?
00000020h: 12 48 4F 01 B0 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 ; .HO.?..........
00000030h: 01 01 01 01 01 01 A0 0F 20 00 31 58 42 20 28 80 ; ......? .1XB (€
00000040h: 74 08 F6 B8 00 00 00 1E 00 00 00 FD 00 32 41 18 ; t.龈.......?2A.
00000050h: 3C 07 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 ; <...............
00000060h: 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01    ; ...............


It was bugging me for a while that this EDID block is incomplete.  The full contents up to the end and including the checksum are:
Code: [Select]
00000000h: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 51 F5 00 01 00 00 00 00
00000010h: 0F 0A 01 03 81 16 10 78 EF 0D C2 A0 57 47 98 27
00000020h: 12 48 4F 01 B0 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
00000030h: 01 01 01 01 01 01 A0 0F 20 00 31 58 42 20 28 80
00000040h: 74 08 F6 B8 00 00 00 1E 00 00 00 FD 00 32 41 18
00000050h: 3C 07 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
00000060h: 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
00000070h: 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 00 BD


In case anyone wonders, these are the contents of the original EDID EEPROM on the AGP card in the WP7KA.

And if you want to parse the data out to see what it says:
Code: [Select]
Block 0 (EDID Base Block), Bytes 0 - 127,  128  BYTES OF EDID CODE:

        0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   
000  |  00  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  00  51  F5
010  |  00  01  00  00  00  00  0F  0A  01  03
020  |  81  16  10  78  EF  0D  C2  A0  57  47
030  |  98  27  12  48  4F  01  B0  00  01  01
040  |  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01
050  |  01  01  01  01  A0  0F  20  00  31  58
060  |  42  20  28  80  74  08  F6  B8  00  00
070  |  00  1E  00  00  00  FD  00  32  41  18
080  |  3C  07  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01
090  |  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01
100  |  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01
110  |  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01  01
120  |  01  01  01  01  01  01  00  BD

(8-9)    ID Manufacture Name : TOU
(10-11)  ID Product Code     : 0100
(12-15)  ID Serial Number    : 0
(16)      Week of Manufacture : 15
(17)      Year of Manufacture : 2000

(18)      EDID Version Number : 1
(19)      EDID Revision Number: 3

(20)      Video Input Definition : Digital
DFP 1.x Compatible

(21)      Maximum Horizontal Image Size: 22 cm
(22)      Maximum Vertical Image Size  : 16 cm
(23)      Display Gamma                : 2.20
(24)      Power Management and Supported Feature(s):
Standby, Suspend, Active Off/Very Low Power, RGB Color, sRGB, Preferred Timing Mode, Default GTF Supported

(25-34)  Color Characteristics
Red Chromaticity   :  Rx = 0.625  Ry = 0.336
Green Chromaticity :  Gx = 0.276  Gy = 0.595
Blue Chromaticity  :  Bx = 0.151  By = 0.070
Default White Point:  Wx = 0.281  Wy = 0.307

(35)      Established Timings I

800 x 600 @ 60Hz (VESA)

(36)      Established Timings II

800 x 600 @ 72Hz (VESA)
832 x 624 @ 75Hz (Apple, Mac II)
1024 x 768 @ 87Hz(I) (IBM)

(37)      Manufacturer's Timings (Not Used)

(38-53)  Standard Timings (Not Used)

(54-71)  Detailed Descriptor #1: Preferred Detailed Timing (800x600 @ 57Hz)

Pixel Clock            : 40 MHz
Horizontal Image Size  : 246 mm
Vertical Image Size    : 184 mm
Refresh Mode           : Non-interlaced
Normal Display, No Stereo

Horizontal:
Active Time     : 800 Pixels
Blanking Time   : 256 Pixels
Sync Offset     : 40 Pixels
Sync Pulse Width: 128 Pixels
Border          : 0 Pixels
Frequency       : 37 kHz

Vertical:
Active Time     : 600 Lines
Blanking Time   : 66 Lines
Sync Offset     : 39 Lines
Sync Pulse Width: 4 Lines
Border          : 0 Lines

Digital Separate, Horizontal Polarity (+), Vertical Polarity (+)

Modeline: "800x600" 40.000 800 840 968 1056 600 639 643 666 +hsync +vsync

(72-89)  Detailed Descriptor #2: Monitor Range Limits

Horizontal Scan Range: 24kHz-60kHz
Vertical Scan Range  : 50Hz-65Hz
Supported Pixel Clock: 70 MHz
Secondary GTF        : Reserve for Future Used

(90-107) Detailed Descriptor #3: Detailed Timing (1x1 @ 39Hz)

Pixel Clock            : 2.57 MHz
Horizontal Image Size  : 1 mm
Vertical Image Size    : 257 mm
Refresh Mode           : Non-interlaced
Normal Display, No Stereo

Horizontal:
Active Time     : 1 Pixels
Blanking Time   : 257 Pixels
Sync Offset     : 1 Pixels
Sync Pulse Width: 1 Pixels
Border          : 1 Pixels
Frequency       : 9 kHz

Vertical:
Active Time     : 1 Lines
Blanking Time   : 257 Lines
Sync Offset     : 0 Lines
Sync Pulse Width: 17 Lines
Border          : 1 Lines

Analog Composite, Horizontal Polarity (-), Vertical Polarity (-)

Modeline: "1x1" 2.570 1 2 3 258 1 1 18 258 -hsync -vsync

(108-125) Detailed Descriptor #4: Detailed Timing (1x1 @ 39Hz)

Pixel Clock            : 2.57 MHz
Horizontal Image Size  : 1 mm
Vertical Image Size    : 257 mm
Refresh Mode           : Non-interlaced
Normal Display, No Stereo

Horizontal:
Active Time     : 1 Pixels
Blanking Time   : 257 Pixels
Sync Offset     : 1 Pixels
Sync Pulse Width: 1 Pixels
Border          : 1 Pixels
Frequency       : 9 kHz

Vertical:
Active Time     : 1 Lines
Blanking Time   : 257 Lines
Sync Offset     : 0 Lines
Sync Pulse Width: 17 Lines
Border          : 1 Lines

Analog Composite, Horizontal Polarity (-), Vertical Polarity (-)

Modeline: "1x1" 2.570 1 2 3 258 1 1 18 258 -hsync -vsync

(126-127) Extension Flag and Checksum

Extension Block(s)  : 0
Checksum Value      : 189
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on July 20, 2018, 05:29:26 am
XXL use different ADC module. cannot be updated by license
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on July 20, 2018, 05:34:41 am
No -A can be marked by license. bucause I have a -A scope before. but when I change another 1-wire EEPROM with more licenses, the -A mark dissapear!!!
If anyone who have the origin 1-wire EEPROM image with A-model. please notice me. Tks!!
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on July 20, 2018, 05:45:57 am
No -A can be marked by license. bucause I have a -A scope before. but when I change another 1-wire EEPROM with more licenses, the -A mark dissapear!!!
If anyone who have the origin 1-wire EEPROM image with A-model. please notice me. Tks!!

What model was that for?  The WR6K and WP7K families do not have an option to turn them into "A" models.  There does exist an AMODEL option but it only works for WM8Zi and LM9MZi as far as I know.   Both my 6050 and 7300 are "A" models and neither have an option for it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on July 20, 2018, 08:47:01 am
I've been looking at the cal data related stuff in firmware a little bit and started a thread about it over here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-x-stream-calibration-data-and-storage/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-x-stream-calibration-data-and-storage/)

Looking back over this thread I would like to correct some old posts and explain "weird behavior" for the benefit of anyone swapping out their hard drive.

I had 20G drive C:, and 20G userdata (which contains the calibration data). The userdata partition was contained in a logical partition. Just moving the partition content to a primary partition with dd on linux made the software complain that the calibration data was moved.

Partition type doesn't matter -- it's looking for a drive letter D: with a volume name of USERDATA.  You probably just didn't set the volume label when setting up the partition from Linux.

Yes, got exactly the same message. I've now recreated the logical partition, and moved that to the end of the disk. So the position on the disk in terms of sectors doesn't matter, but the partition numbering does.

See above.  It can even be a separate disk as long as the letter is D: and the volume name is USERDATA.
Firmware calls GetVolumeInformationW with a root path name of "D:\" and checks the returned volume name for a match to USERDATA.

I'm not sure whether it has to be on a logical partition. I would rather think that they store the partition location during calibration and so it can't be moved later.

That is not the case.  The possible locations are hard-coded.  First it will look for a D: drive with volume name USERDATA and if that fails then it will fall back to C:\LeCroy\XStream for the Maui root path and C:\LeCroy\XStream\Calibration for the Maui calibration path.

Well, it's rather interesting... I changed my calibration partition to be the second partition. Tried as both physical partition and as an extended partition. Formatted as either FAT32 or NTFS. Still getting the same error. Obviously, it's always mounted on drive D:\ and has "USERDATA" as a volume name. I have verified that XStream is reading and writing the config files to this filesystem. In fact, I can back up and restore the calibration data back using XStream "Critical files backup" procedure which is the official procedure to restore calibration data when changing the hard drive. I'm starting to suspect that it's going to be something else... what am I missing?

The "unidentified structures" messages at bootup means that some data points in the BTD files were not filled out.  It appears these are not critical errors but everybody notices them for the first time when troubleshooting the nasty popup message and believes they are related when they are not.

If you don't have a Calibration folder at the right location before firmware starts then you will get the popup message.  Once you answer either yes or no, it will set a registry key (HKCU\SOFTWARE\LeCroy\Maui\ShowCalibrationDataError) that will either always show the popup or never show the popup.  So it will keep coming back even after you restore the cal data!  To make it go away, just delete the registry key (instead of setting it to 1 or 0).

Also, my calibration issue is somehow resolved after installing XStream under Windows 7. I'm using the same calibration partition mounted as "D:\" drive in both Win XP and Win 7, but after installing XStream software under Win 7, I'm not seeing this error any more. If I re-boot back into Win XP, the error comes back. Weird...

That's because the registry key exists in the XP registry but not in the Win7 registry -- you already had the D: drive set up when you installed Win7 so you never got the message box and never added the registry key in Win7.

Do you mean I simply need to create a C: and D: partition? Or is there something more specific I need to do?

Your options are to create a D: partition named USERDATA, install a second D: drive and name the volume USERDATA, or you can just ignore that step and run on a single C: drive.

I think to avoid the prompt in the first place you need to create the D:\Calibration folder or the C:\LeCroy\XStream\Calibration folder before launching firmware, but I wouldn't worry about it.  Just decide if you want a D: drive or not for your calibration and save files, set it up if you want it, install firmware, restore your cal data, and then delete the registry key that makes the popup always show.

I actually did some thorough looking at the registry. I looked through everything I could find with "LeCroy" and there was nothing about cal data, location of it, or even that the message should appear/not appear. Very little in the registry from what I could find.

You were looking under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE but the setting you were looking for is under HKEY_CURRENT_USER :P

I WONDER. My scope is a WaveRunner 6100. Perhaps your is different and therefore produces different files?

From what I can see in the firmware, no.  I believe all the XStream scopes are using the same calibration methodology with the same named files and data structures inside.  It's a very small amount of data stored at a single operating temperature so corrections for all other operating points would have to be extrapolated.  My guess is that the extrapolations to other operating points are stored in the cache files for faster lookup the next time and the caches are not part of the critical files backup.

Interestingly, today I decided to log in using LeCroyUser and to my amazment, when I run Start DSO, I do not get the error message!

That is because the registry key that FORCES the message to appear on every launch of firmware is stored under HKEY_CURRENT_USER.  Log in as a new user and the key is gone!  As long as the calibration folder is in the right place then the message box won't appear and the registry key will not be added.

I think that the system remembers that at some point in the downloading process, there were no calibration data and suggested that you contact LeCroy service for this.
That's right, once it gets tripped it doesn't go away unless you tell it to never come back, but then it will never ever be displayed even if your cal data does go missing, which is why I recommend deleting the key altogether.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: wldshy on July 20, 2018, 11:09:23 am
DDA5005A & SDA3000A.
can you share a copy of your 1-wire eeprom image?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Kirkhaan on October 15, 2018, 07:47:44 pm
For those who still need the Semtec UR7HCTS2-USB drivers and calibration tool, I've uploaded them here:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=03431461191578554865 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=03431461191578554865)

With special thanks to leon255!  :-+
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on November 28, 2018, 06:45:57 am
Got my hands on a later vintage 7300A (2006) with a bunch of software options and XL memory, so I'm working on making sure it's in good shape.  I've run into a couple of strange problems I've yet to figure out, and while I expect to be checking the acquisition board next for loose connections (it's an odd behavior and the feet were damaged in transit), I'm wondering if anyone's run into either issue.

First, the small one, since upgrading to the latest xstream software, the front panel lights are losing it a little.... They will show normally, but intermittently update to show things off which shouldn't otherwise be.  It doesn't actually effect acquisition or settings, but I'll have channel lights changing every few seconds in some cases even when all four are acquiring normally.  All the buttons work fine, and it seems that pressing a button that makes it update the lights makes the right ones come on.

The second issue is the bigger one: it acquires properly and the inputs seem to be in fine shape, but on every retrigger, I can hear a relay click, which is then followed by some "processing" time in the lower right status indicator and a retrigger point of close to two seconds later in auto mode, even at very short time scales.  The front panel is largely unresponsive when it's doing this, and it happened on the 6.x version of the xstream software it shipped with.  I almost wonder if it's some holdoff setting for sending the screen info out to the network or something... but the remote control options are disabled, and I've been unable to get it to retrigger any faster or without the relay click.  Aside from this obvious deficiency, I can trigger off of whatever channel, I can change ranges and time scales normally, I can read a signal, it passes all self calibrations, etc.



Compared to the 2001ish 7200 I've worked with, it's relatively similar inside in the top compartment, but the motherboard is newer, an Intel D865GLC, so it supports up to 3.4GHz socket 478 chips with hyperthreading and dual channel DDR400 memory (4 DIMMs) - whereas I think the 7200 non-A used an 815 based board that didn't support the later socket 478s or hyperthreading.  Also runs Windows XP instead of 2000, so it can use much more modern xstream software.  Had some strange response issues initially with the clicky knobs on the front panel (most of them), but it seemed to be corrosion or something because just in using them a lot they've cleared up.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on November 28, 2018, 10:13:33 am
What options are installed?

I don't know about your LED problem but you might want to reset to default settings and see if it cures your triggering (perhaps somebody left it doing a lot of post-processing or protocol decode on every capture).

File->Recall Setup, towards the bottom-right is button for "Recall Default Setup"
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 02, 2018, 05:39:33 am
XMATH, JTA2, a couple other things - a nice little set!

Resetting defaults was the first thing I tried, no dice, at least in 8.1.2.

Checked connections on the top, checked around a bit in the software, then popped open the bottom and checked the acquisition board.  Didn't power it up when open (couldn't be bothered at the moment to get the big fan), but none of the connections were loose, cleaned out some dust, popped a couple of front end shield cans and didn't really see anything amiss with the relays, but no results.  So I went and uninstalled all the software that wasn't windows stuff, ran RegCleaner, and reinstalled the newest xstream software.... same issue.

Also scoped the gigabit ethernet connections from the PCI card down to the acquisition board, and at the very least everything is alive.  The only error I could find in the logs was an I2C error of some description, but it doesn't show up in the UI at all and doesn't really elaborate as to what it is.


I'm thinking I may want to check the PCI interface board next, and maybe swap it temporarily for the one in my 7200.  I believe there's some options/configuration memory onboard, but it should still at least function on a basic level using the other card - and if something acts more normal, then I've got a good starting point.  I have some ProBus probes so I need to remember to try them too, just see if all the connectivity near the front actually works.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 16, 2018, 03:34:52 pm
hi all. interesting discussion and achievement. i've acquired a lecroy sda scope born June 2003 with Intel D845GRG motherboard in it. it seems the cpu and memory already maxed out. so i'm thinking upgrading the motherboard, so a compatible 3GHz+ Pentium D is in my eye now but... the original P4 2.53GHz is 60W cpu. the one i'm looking is 130W dual core. my concern will be the extra load that sda scope's PSU will have to take. i'm afraid the PSU will be short life, what do you think guy? is it or it isnt? anyone of you upgraded to 100W or more wattage cpu? and used it at extended period of time?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 16, 2018, 09:20:28 pm
I'd just pick an upgraded board that supports a chip with a better TDP - if I remember right, Pentium Ds were based off of Prescott P4 cores essentially, which were less efficient per watt than the earlier P4 Northwoods.  Going with a specifically low power chip could help, but going to something a little newer (core duo or core 2 duo) should get you back in the right TDP ballpark.  I'd think over 100W is risking it (though maybe not too much), but I think 80W ballpark chips would be fine.  Haven't looked on the specific power supply specs, but odds are good that it's a better supply than equivalently rated commercial parts, and it's probably somewhat over-rated for the requirement.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 16, 2018, 09:36:07 pm
i'll use lower speed pentium D 945 @ 3.4GHz , 95W think should be ok, 0.2GHz wont gain much for the power wasted. ordering parts is in progress, the worst case is i think, i have another (obsolete) PC for the kids to play king kong pong :P
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 18, 2018, 04:55:02 pm
I've looked some more into my relay-click-and-processing-delay-on-every-acquisition issue and I think it's pointing more and more towards software, but I'm not certain how to go about fixing it yet.

I suspected the PCI interface card because the processing delay and front panel lights flashing could have been linked to issues there, but swapping for a known-good one in a WP7200 yielded the same results.  I dove into the user manual to try to find things that could do it, so i suspected it getting stuck in sequence mode, and it wasn't, though the delay in loading is somewhat similar in some cases - just without the relay click.  I also found that when set to roll mode the relay doesn't click and the scope behaves exactly as the working WP7200.  Then I went through some variables in the X-Stream browser, and I found that in the root of the acquisition top level folder is a CalNeeded variable, which on the unit with the issue is set to 15 whereas the working WP7200 has it set to 0.  I tried setting the value to zero, but it doesn't seem to allow editing it, though some others can be changed.

Since the self calibration also involves relay clocking and a second or two, I suspect this setting is forcing a recalibration with every new acquisition, and maybe this instrument was part of an automated system that required that in its former life... but I haven't yet found how to change this value.  I don't see any error messages or reports in the packaged diagnostic logs that indicate missing calibration data.  The automation manual mentions it and shows VB script that can change it (or at least read it?), but I'm hoping there's another edit I can make or LXI command I can give to set it to see if it fixes the issue.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 18, 2018, 06:45:31 pm
I've looked some more into my relay-click-and-processing-delay-on-every-acquisition issue and I think it's pointing more and more towards software, but I'm not certain how to go about fixing it yet.
my SDA (based on WM8K i think) do this calibration-processing when i change vertical V/div scale (each time change iirc even when i get back to previous scale) and on few timescale changes a click, but when i stick to the same vertical and horizontal scale setting, calibration wont click again. i guess this is how it works? i read comments of free_electron on how annoying it is to him, he even complained this to lecroy to no effect. there's menu in utilities iirc to disable this calibration process, if i disable it, i got fewer clicks but it still clicks sometime. according to manual/text, it will click when there is temperature changes, so maybe this is an issue if we get frequent clicks? not sure. mine is a used one so i dont know how it was when new.

I'd just pick an upgraded board that supports a chip with a better TDP
i've made a distant order for a used D865GSA board (with unknown CPU intact and its backpanel shield which is different from original board) at a cost of new modern MoBo :-\ mainly because it supports not only P4 and Celeron (my not favourite name) D but also PD and it got LGA775 socket so its newer so it should be better? also most importantly i want to limit the option to MoBo that only support DVO to AGP output, that means an old MoBo, as outlined by my master (the now banned too bad!) Weuscthund (if i spell it incorrectly), so i can reuse the Lecroy AGP card in its original way, i dont need built in LCD upgrade so far, the existing one is fine (except a green vertical line on the rightmost part of the screen) and 800 x 600 is less burden to Gfx/Gpu processing i think so it should increase performance?. if i want super resolution i will use back VGA port and a PS/2 mouse.

i think (to the limited power of my search and keywords) D865GSA is the last and latest version that support DVO out. i will couple it with PD 945 3.4GHz, 2x2MB L2 cache 800MHz FSB, its only 95W. i see some supplies still available used from our local sellers. some P4 HT are rated 100+W as well, the lower wattage one only limited to none HT CPU, even if they have, HT still not a true dual core and maxed out to 2MB (instead of 2x2MB) cache. i hope you are right about the PSU is robustly designed and i hope it can take the extra 30W happily. i will also need to buy 2 x 1GB DDR400 ram, there are also still supplies for that locally. and SSD of course! i hope Dxl driver will work in it and Win7. finger cross..

Supported Processors for the Intel® Desktop Board D865GSA (https://www.intel.sg/content/www/xa/en/support/articles/000006836/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html)
List of Intel Pentium D microprocessors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_D_microprocessors)

Supported Processors for the Intel® Desktop Board D865GLC (https://www.intel.sg/content/www/xa/en/support/articles/000006655/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html)
List of Intel Pentium 4 microprocessors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_microprocessors)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 18, 2018, 09:03:12 pm
And why do not you want to use a newer and more advanced platform just like other users did (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1146067/#msg1146067 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1146067/#msg1146067))?  Why dig up mummies from the museum?

By the way, no one can sell me the front panel for WP7K (P/N 70F1XXX14)? I am happy to buy even the old one and the broken one (for restoration), because I don’t have any at all  :-//

(http://s018.radikal.ru/i516/1702/27/f104341912bdt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/26a3sbk392l2r)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 18, 2018, 09:46:08 pm
From what I've seen, they're very likely to be damaged, so many are missing or are in pieces.  Have you tried asking LeCroy for any stock?  There are a lot of scopes in this form factor that should use similar bezels, so salvaging one from another may fit, but they seem to be very commonly missing or damaged.

I considered asking LeCroy for a mechanical drawing so I could look into 3d printing one, since my WP7200 is missing it entirely, but never ended up following through (too many other things going on - the usual).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 18, 2018, 10:10:31 pm
I contacted LeCroy, and so did other people, but no one was successful in buying this front frame. I have the hope that someone was more successful and now he is ready to sell me his broken frame. This problem has not been solved for me for several years. Therefore, if someone has such an opportunity, I will be grateful for the personal message.
I know that this frame is also compatible from the LeCroy LС-series, as well as WP 9xx.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 19, 2018, 12:22:52 am
And why do not you want to use a newer and more advanced platform just like other users did (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1146067/#msg1146067 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1146067/#msg1146067))?  Why dig up mummies from the museum?
thanks for the head up, i didnt follow that very well, i saw few pictures earlier, apart from having to drill some of new holes on the chassis which i think i'm unable to do when the dso module intact due to vibration damage risk or metal bits fall into it, i thought its somewhat similar to your bigger LCD mod, and i got scared when looking at your level of modification. and comment on smaller font is rational, so i dont want to upgrade the LCD. and i'm not LVDS or DVI expert, i dont know how to wire them DVO or DVI i dont know the difference or similarity, so i cant take the risk burning something, and less invasive attempt is more appropriate imho with all these excuses... and AIMB-581 is 2-3X more expensive in ebay compared to what i paid for D865GSA, and you people suggested 2 core is enough, and... i will find more excuses later :P yes AIMB-581 can support bigger and faster ram, but well, i can accept small improvement for small payment and lesser risk. the PD 945 is $10 here, so the ram. if i need more performance later on, that D865GSA can play king kong pong with my kids.

By the way, no one can sell me the front panel for WP7K (P/N 70F1XXX14)? I am happy to buy even the old one and the broken one (for restoration), because I don’t have any at all  :-//
i think it will be hard since people buying it to put in their damaged unit and then resell as a whole. how about buying a 3d printer and print it. i can help you with cad if you dont know how, but i only have my sda as reference, you'll need to print it in pieces one by one since it is big and glue, polish and paint later on. or you can go to local car painter or sporty car bumper maker, they are expert on doing mockup of this kind. ymmv.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 19, 2018, 01:28:53 am
Everything is not so difficult. You do not need to pay attention to this Chi Mei Innolux G104X1-L03 lcd matrix (what was shown in the link), since NEC manufactures a whole range of 1024x768 LCD displays that have a standard mount that is no different from the standard LeCroy WP7K NL8060BC26 800x600 display. I used the LCD-matrix NL10276BC20. Thus - no need to drill. Simply connect this matrix to the motherboard (aimb-581 or aimb-562) with one cable.
The 1024x768 format is optimal for LeCroy. The font is not too small, look at my photos in the attachment.

Quote
how about buying a 3d printer and print it. i can help you with cad if you dont know how, but i only have my sda as reference, you'll need to print it in pieces one by one since it is big and glue, polish and paint later on.
If you do, it would be great. And it would be useful to many people. At the same time, I understand that this requires a lot of time and experience.
Other options for manufacturing the front panel, I could not find. For the imprint in the form, I turned to one company that is engaged in the production of musical instruments, but they replied that it was too difficult for them.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 19, 2018, 02:04:03 am
Everything is not so difficult.
yes with proper source of guidance and motivation.

..The 1024x768 format is optimal for LeCroy. The font is not too small, look at my photos in the attachment.
thanks for the suggestion :-+ i will keep that in mind for the next upgrade. but for now i will continue with the set course, as the most expensive part in the planned mod already on its way. i'll see about this.. and used D865GSA still available many for sale in ebay so digging the fossil is not so that hard. but at ridiculosly expensive price surprisingly mostly from China, more expensive than new modern MoBo, i dont know what they are thinking. there is another one guy from Latvia selling it at cheap for now, other than the one i'm getting.

If you do, it would be great. And it would be useful to many people. At the same time, I understand that this requires a lot of time and experience.
Other options for manufacturing the front panel, I could not find. For the imprint in the form, I turned to one company that is engaged in the production of musical instruments, but they replied that it was too difficult for them.
i think it can be done by cutting and gluing from plastic (or perspex) flat panels, grinding polishing filling polishing again and painting etc. but it will need some skills and motivation, most importantly motivation as you said "Everything is not so difficult". i just dont have more motivation to be more intrusive to my unit, that one "was" an unaffordably expensive unit, even now i dont think i can get the price i paid for it again, that need some begging effort and luck, i'm experiencing some over budget financial damage already. and the mod is not so urgent, so there's no need to push really hard. i can get by even without doing it, the existing GUI performance is acceptable so far, far better than my laggy DS1054Z. (except the windows startup time and auto-calibration-process which is new to me and confirmed by more experienced people earlier)

anyway just tell me if you have access to 3d printing service, i'll do 3d modelling of it (if you cant, if you can then its better ;D) gain on your part will be my motivation ;) it should not be too difficult about an hour or two if i'm not occupied with other stuffs. and then the most important part is it'll need to be customized for your printing machine that i have no knowledge about, esp how many split do we have to do, that will be based on printing area limit, if printer is large enough or you hire professional printing service, then i think no need to do the split. and if the software cant generate overhang support, i can do that as well, if it does, then i dont have to. if you ask at the right time you may get it quick, if not you may get it next year, time is never be enough :P
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 19, 2018, 03:10:04 pm
Hello,
I think that there is no problem in ordering a printout from any company with a large printer. But the job of creating a digital 3D image costs a lot of money. Therefore, if you do this, your help will be invaluable! If the printer cannot print the entire part at once, then I think it will not be a problem for any 3D printing company to divide the 3D image into several parts.
Can you really do this?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 20, 2018, 11:28:14 pm
I think that there is no problem in ordering a printout from any company with a large printer...
Can you really do this?
here we go... i believe there are some differences in dimensions and shapes, esp the curves, so i dont think i infringe anybody's patent ;) i punched in the model in shapeways and it said $100+ ... i was also thinking about the front cover as well but... its sleep time and there's better option, ebay for anyone who need it... fwiw...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lecory-Front-cover-for-LeCroy-LC-Series-LC574A-Digital-Oscilloscope/261286171112?hash=item3cd5de91e8:g:ae4AAOSwBt5ZE5uR:rk:1:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lecory-Front-cover-for-LeCroy-LC-Series-LC574A-Digital-Oscilloscope/261286171112?hash=item3cd5de91e8:g:ae4AAOSwBt5ZE5uR:rk:1:pf:0)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LECROY-FACE-PLATE-PROTECTIVE-COVER-LID-TOP-15-75-X-9-125/173675862726?hash=item286fe35ac6:g:aAIAAOSw-nZTn2O1:rk:1:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LECROY-FACE-PLATE-PROTECTIVE-COVER-LID-TOP-15-75-X-9-125/173675862726?hash=item286fe35ac6:g:aAIAAOSw-nZTn2O1:rk:1:pf:0)
mine doesnt have that LeCroy emblem, $472 shipping to Malaysia |O

edit: attachment pictures and 3d files removed. use latest version at Reply #258 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2060719/#msg2060719) instead...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 21, 2018, 01:44:52 am
Thank you so much. It’s just incredible how quickly you did it. 3D image of the power button is also very useful.
But still need one detail - a plastic insert with the logo LeCroy.

Also, quite often the problem is the hind legs, which are very weak for such an instrument weight.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 21, 2018, 02:06:33 am
But still need one detail - a plastic insert with the logo LeCroy.
thats a sticker you can put on the front panel. notice the hole on top? thats where you put it. if you dont have that, it can easily made from anything, or simply just print LeCroy name on sticky paper. modelling it for 3d printing is not much point, that thing is too small for that. you also will need another sticker for your dso name on the bottom of the monitor. i've put recess there, just like the original panel has, so you can know the size.

Also, quite often the problem is the hind legs, which are very weak for such an instrument weight.
why. you dont have that too? mine is slightly broken on two legs, the other 2 are still 100% ok. guess what i did to all of them before anything worst happen? see attached picture..
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 21, 2018, 02:32:03 am
Yes, this is the right decision. I also thought to do it. But sometimes it happens that there are no legs at all, even at the time of purchase. And sometimes it happens that after the breakage some fragments of the legs disappear, so it is impossible to strengthen, as shown in your photo.

As for Logo LeCroy. Perhaps this detail is too small for satisfactory printing on a conventional 3D printer. But two-dimensional printing for this part does not fit the same, because this part is tridimensional.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 22, 2018, 06:45:31 pm
here's the updated version of approximated WP/WM 3D parts. earlier version removed...
disclaimer: i believe there are some differences in dimensions and shapes, esp the curves, so i dont think i infringe anybody's patent ;)
fwiw...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 22, 2018, 07:04:24 pm
You create a miracle! Thank you very much. And I think that all those whom you have helped will join this. :-+
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 22, 2018, 07:48:20 pm
Patent wise I think you'd only run into an issue with the LeCroy logo, if anything, since it's assuredly a trademark.  Hopefully they won't bother with small fish not profiting from it.


Really nice looking work though, and I'm almost certainly going to get some printed up at some point - the front panels and feet seem to be extremely commonly broken, and even if it was just a plain gray plastic with no lettering, having the front panel and not exposed pieces everywhere is a huge upgrade from the bare front panel in looks and protection.  It seems there are a number of scopes with these parts that are entering the used market and becoming affordable for hobbyists, and having a source of some replacement plastics should help keep them running and looking good for a long time to come.  :-+
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Xtreemtec on December 28, 2018, 02:06:24 pm
Heey Guys, New here, So much GREAT info gathered here,     Got our Lecroy Wavepro 7300 yesterday from Ebay.    Machine had a damaged Windows 2000 boot fault.   

Pulled a full bit to bit copy from the harddrive to Save the data on the drive and also have all the data that belongs on the D drive (Calibration Data).

Tryed to recover the WIN2000 boot but can not recover it.  So we went ahead with a fresh new install of Win 2000 Pro on our Clone drive.   
But i remember something reading in this topic about Username LeCroy    but how about Full Name, Company name, Machine Name? 

I was about to come bearing with gifts.  (Our feet broke in transit,  So i made a 3D STL file yesterday evening.)  Just to find out opening this topic since last week that MechaTrommer has beat me to it..  Hahaha..  :-+ :-+

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 28, 2018, 03:16:17 pm
:-+ dont forget to search around eevblog for Lecroy SW/OS upgrade, installing from fresh disk, Win7, and err... getting licenses from "LeCroys" ® to add SW options. for HW upgrade, this thread is the nuttest. welcome to the forum we are the minority of used Lecroy owners ;), even though minority, but the informations is there, from very good people that contribute.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Xtreemtec on December 28, 2018, 09:23:22 pm
:-+ dont forget to search around eevblog for Lecroy SW/OS upgrade, installing from fresh disk, Win7, and err...
Sure thing, I'm moderator at 2 other forums so i know were the search button is lurking  :-+

///  ================================================================================================================   ///

As with a new motherboard you also have to install the software i try my luck in this topic.  Maybe someone reading in on this topic knows the solution.

So after an evening tinkering we got the unit online with the original hardware.  Intel board had 3 Blown cap's. Repaired that. 
Had struggles with Win2000, got SP 4 installed,
Installed all original Intel drivers that are on the Intel website for this motherboard.   Including the Intel Extreme Graphic Driver for 845 chipset V6.14.10.3762

This is were the troubles starts.  As soon as the driver is installed and the machine does it's reboot. The front LCD Ghosts away at the point of windows starting it's welcome screen.
And stays dark.   When booting with an external monitor to the VGA port and without the AGP card inserted we are able to get an image and even start the Xstream Software and run the scope.   
So we guess or the Intel driver we have is faulty, or the settings are not ok for the front LCD. 
When we de-install the Intel driver we are able to run the front LCD in windows in 640x480 at 16 colors.  But of coarse this is not able to run the software of 16 colors.

So all in all we revived a LeCroy from the death.  All because the great info in this topic, so we were quite positive that we were able to revive it.
But missing that 1 piece of driver / setting to get it up and running with the build in screen again. :-BROKE

We will upgrade the hardware in the future.  But we bought the scope as we need to do measurements on 3Ghz in the next couple of weeks to get a Hardware design up and running.   If that product is out the door.  We will possible go for a Win7  i3 / i5 setup with Ipad front screen.    8) ;D

To our surprise the machine was loaded with options.   DFP2  ENET  ET  I2C  JTA2  PMA2  SDM  SPI  USB2  XDEV  XMAP  XMATH      :wtf:      Hardware option -M so small memory package..

///  ================================================================================================================   ///

For the feet. The printing was very successful  ^-^    It got really good strength due too the design being "Solid" with that Honeycomb, which makes it much more strength then the open structure of the original feet.
Printing 4 of them took about 5 hours with our Flashforge Finder printer and takes about 20 meters of PLA material.
You need to add some support material underneath with the slicing program of the 3D printer.   But anyone that is used to run a 3D printer knows how.   Also the best results are gone with a Raft underneath the object.
Here some photos and i hope that i can include the zip file as new user.   ;)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Kirkhaan on December 29, 2018, 10:00:31 pm

As with a new motherboard you also have to install the software i try my luck in this topic.  Maybe someone reading in on this topic knows the solution.

So after an evening tinkering we got the unit online with the original hardware.  Intel board had 3 Blown cap's. Repaired that. 
Had struggles with Win2000, got SP 4 installed,
Installed all original Intel drivers that are on the Intel website for this motherboard.   Including the Intel Extreme Graphic Driver for 845 chipset V6.14.10.3762

This is were the troubles starts.  As soon as the driver is installed and the machine does it's reboot. The front LCD Ghosts away at the point of windows starting it's welcome screen.
And stays dark.   When booting with an external monitor to the VGA port and without the AGP card inserted we are able to get an image and even start the Xstream Software and run the scope.   
So we guess or the Intel driver we have is faulty, or the settings are not ok for the front LCD. 
When we de-install the Intel driver we are able to run the front LCD in windows in 640x480 at 16 colors.  But of coarse this is not able to run the software of 16 colors.

So all in all we revived a LeCroy from the death.  All because the great info in this topic, so we were quite positive that we were able to revive it.
But missing that 1 piece of driver / setting to get it up and running with the build in screen again. :-BROKE


I had similar issue with the Intel D865GLC motherboard in my WaverRunner 6030A after installing the OS (in my case Windows XP) on a new HDD.
In the end I replaced the Intel MB with a spare Asrock P4i65G that I had laying around. This solved the issue for me.

Just to double check: you have set AGP to main display in the BIOS I assume?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 30, 2018, 06:21:20 am
I was once I too had chores with mounting design, when installed a different matrix to TLA704 logic analyzer.
few days ago i realized Tektronix TLA714 Logic Analyzer uses NL8060AC26-11 monitor. from looking at the datasheet, its pin compatible with Lecroy DSO monitor NL8060BC26-17, fwiw...

https://4donline.ihs.com/images/VipMasterIC/IC/RNCC/RNCCS09440/RNCCS09440-1.pdf?hkey=EF798316E3902B6ED9A73243A3159BB0 (https://4donline.ihs.com/images/VipMasterIC/IC/RNCC/RNCCS09440/RNCCS09440-1.pdf?hkey=EF798316E3902B6ED9A73243A3159BB0)
http://www.spectrah.com/product/lcd_panel/nec_lcd_panel/nec_NL8060BC26-17_tft_color_lcd_module_specification_preliminary.pdf (http://www.spectrah.com/product/lcd_panel/nec_lcd_panel/nec_NL8060BC26-17_tft_color_lcd_module_specification_preliminary.pdf)

currently waiting a NL8060BC26-17 monitor to come because i want to get rid of the green vertical line on the lecroy original monitor.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 30, 2018, 03:14:50 pm
few days ago i realized Tektronix TLA714 Logic Analyzer uses NL8060AC26-11 monitor. from looking at the datasheet, its pin compatible with Lecroy DSO monitor NL8060BC26-17, fwiw...
Yes, but "BC" is better. I did find some difference. However, you really can not feel this.
Sometimes Tektronix TLA is cheaper than a new lcd-matrix :).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 30, 2018, 03:46:57 pm
In my LeCroy WaveRunner Xi, the NL8060BC26-27 matrix is installed. This lcd has even better specifications. But its installation in WP7K have problems with displacement connector (DF9-41P).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 30, 2018, 06:05:17 pm
The video system WaveRunner Xi built into the motherboard (Intel Montara-GM+ i855GME) supports many resolution formats (the photo also shows the optional lvds-to-ttl interface converter card). Therefore, there is no difficulty in installing a 1024x768 matrix there. I wonder why nobody has done this before this time. I have already ordered some items and will soon make this upgrade.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Xtreemtec on December 30, 2018, 08:23:52 pm
Well we could not get the flatpanel up and running again in Win2K except for 640x480 were Xstream would not run.     
But after 2 days of good running the Scope with an external monitor, it decided today to hiccup again in Win2K. making some boot error.  :-BROKE

So i opted to install win XP and try this.  And it went perfect.  No issues, screen is filing now at the correct width and height.   :-+

Only thing we do not get to work still. (But did not run in win2k either) is the Touchscreen.  While loading Xstream we get a message "disabled touchscreen" ,, "Touchscreen driver can not beloaded"  followed by "could not start USB2 application"
We have installed Xstream V 6.8.1.4  as this version is on the D drive as an installer.   I have read that newer versions of the software do not install all necessary drivers anymore for these older units. 
But V6.8 is right in the ballpark others say V6.x does install the drivers.    So i have seen a lot of Touchscreen drivers floating around in this topic.  But which will work for the original touchscreen setup from factory??

So for our hardware upgrade i plowed trough this topic and gathered all useful information into 1 word document.  Highlighted all motherboards used by users here.
Made a list of motherboards that are in my eyes good options and still able to find out there.. 

Asrock H97M Pro4          $80 second hand     >>   Converter uses this one
Asus B85M-e                  $60 second hand     >>   Steven4601      I guess it is a B85.  He says in his post a P85.  But this model does not exist with Asus.
Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3V  $69 second hand     >>  Russian E39
Advantech AIMB-581      $275 New from factory.    >> Albertr and Ollopa.   

As the Advantech is the only motherboard that you are able to pick up new. We lean to this option.    Because on the Intel board we already had 3 Blown caps.  Don't want to repair another motherboard in 2 years or so.       Also the Advantech does have that internal DVI connector. Which is quite appealing when you want to convert the screen to and do not want to run a cable trough the back end for the monitor.
So i guess we will start harvesting parts for an upgrade too.  :D

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Xtreemtec on December 30, 2018, 08:40:33 pm
I've looked some more into my relay-click-and-processing-delay-on-every-acquisition issue and I think it's pointing more and more towards software, but I'm not certain how to go about fixing it yet.

I suspected the PCI interface card because the processing delay and front panel lights flashing could have been linked to issues there, but swapping for a known-good one in a WP7200 yielded the same results.  I dove into the user manual to try to find things that could do it, so i suspected it getting stuck in sequence mode, and it wasn't, though the delay in loading is somewhat similar in some cases - just without the relay click.  I also found that when set to roll mode the relay doesn't click and the scope behaves exactly as the working WP7200.  Then I went through some variables in the X-Stream browser, and I found that in the root of the acquisition top level folder is a CalNeeded variable, which on the unit with the issue is set to 15 whereas the working WP7200 has it set to 0.  I tried setting the value to zero, but it doesn't seem to allow editing it, though some others can be changed.

Since the self calibration also involves relay clocking and a second or two, I suspect this setting is forcing a recalibration with every new acquisition, and maybe this instrument was part of an automated system that required that in its former life... but I haven't yet found how to change this value.  I don't see any error messages or reports in the packaged diagnostic logs that indicate missing calibration data.  The automation manual mentions it and shows VB script that can change it (or at least read it?), but I'm hoping there's another edit I can make or LXI command I can give to set it to see if it fixes the issue.
We have the same effect, Every channel you enable it needs to calibrate first for a few seconds,  When you turn the voltage it goes calibrating again. 

I've looked some more into my relay-click-and-processing-delay-on-every-acquisition issue and I think it's pointing more and more towards software, but I'm not certain how to go about fixing it yet.
my SDA (based on WM8K i think) do this calibration-processing when i change vertical V/div scale (each time change iirc even when i get back to previous scale) and on few timescale changes a click, but when i stick to the same vertical and horizontal scale setting, calibration wont click again. i guess this is how it works? i read comments of free_electron on how annoying it is to him, he even complained this to lecroy to no effect. there's menu in utilities iirc to disable this calibration process, if i disable it, i got fewer clicks but it still clicks sometime. according to manual/text, it will click when there is temperature changes, so maybe this is an issue if we get frequent clicks? not sure. mine is a used one so i dont know how it was when new.
Well i found the option in Utilities > Prefference Setup  Automatic calibration if temperature change occurs.   But if we turn it off we do not see a difference either.     So this problem may be rooted deeper into the software.  Or is the way this device works as Mechatrommer says.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 30, 2018, 10:04:56 pm
Well i found the option in Utilities > Prefference Setup  Automatic calibration if temperature change occurs.   But if we turn it off we do not see a difference either.     So this problem may be rooted deeper into the software.  Or is the way this device works as Mechatrommer says.
I think that this is not a problem, but the intention of the developer LeCroy. But, really, it would be nice to turn it off.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: PnpNpn on December 30, 2018, 11:58:20 pm
here's the updated version of approximated WP/WM 3D parts. earlier version removed...
disclaimer: i believe there are some differences in dimensions and shapes, esp the curves, so i dont think i infringe anybody's patent ;)
i've also added them into my thingiverse collection... https://www.thingiverse.com/soasystem/designs (https://www.thingiverse.com/soasystem/designs)
fwiw...

In which program did you make a model ?
Did you use a 3D scanner? Or a measuring arm, the table?


Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 31, 2018, 04:29:10 am
Well i found the option in Utilities > Prefference Setup  Automatic calibration if temperature change occurs.   But if we turn it off we do not see a difference either.     So this problem may be rooted deeper into the software.  Or is the way this device works as Mechatrommer says.
I think that this is not a problem, but the intention of the developer LeCroy. But, really, it would be nice to turn it off.


I.... doubt that.  I have a WavePro 7200  running the same software that works exactly like any other normal scope, and while I'm sure there's a difference, the frontend of each look the same and there is no special thermal drift compensation on either model in hardware that I can see.  The WP 7200 that works properly will calibrate initially and then can every few minutes, maybe, with drift - as a spectrum analyzer or similar often does.

In any case, I haven't had time to look deeper, but I think the key pointer towards an error is a CalNeeded value of 15.  At least in the xstream documentation, they only describe CalNeeded values up to 8, and the one that works properly reports 0 (as it should when not needing drift compensation).  My guess is that either there's something wrong with the cal routine that is not being reported as an error (maybe it's drifted outside of the actual calibration parameters plus a maximum tolerance), or that the scope somehow got 15 into that value and simply can't get it out, forcing a full recalibration every acquisition.  My plan is to have a more detailed look through the diagnostic logs to see any mention of calibration stuff, I've already tried writing a startup script that reports the CalNeeded value, runs the calibration routine, and then immediately reports it again - and running the calibration routine did not change the value.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on December 31, 2018, 05:43:31 am
I had a lot of these devices series WP7K. But they all behaved the same way. If a method were known to perform a full automatic calibration while preserving the calibration coefficients in the instrument's memory (as with products from other manufacturers), this would clarify the situation.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on December 31, 2018, 09:00:57 am
[...]I think the key pointer towards an error is a CalNeeded value of 15.  At least in the xstream documentation, they only describe CalNeeded values up to 8, and the one that works properly reports 0 (as it should when not needing drift compensation).

The documentation isn't very clear but I'm sure that it is actually a bit field based on the fact that all the listed numbers are powers of 2 and they mention the cal needed is based on the "bit value":
Quote
Based on hexadecimal bit value, it provides following information:
0x00000001: Front end calibration is required
0x00000002: Digitizers delay matching is required
0x00000004: Digitizers gain matching is required
0x00000008: Trigger level calibration is required
0xFFFFFFFF(-1): All of above calibrations are required

15 would be 8+4+2+1 so I would interpret it as meaning all the listed calibrations are needed.  As a programmer I would also just OR the bits together and arrive at 15 to mean all bits are set.  It would take an additional check to change that to -1 which would require a hard-coded comparison value that would not be very reliable across different instrument families, so I doubt they mean (in the above documentation) that ONLY a value of -1 can mean all calibrations are required.  They probably just initialize the status variable to -1 and are saying that in a corner-case where -1 is read back that can be interpreted as all calibrations need to be run.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on December 31, 2018, 11:14:33 am
I haven't looked much at the cal system yet but I would think that if you run the cal and it still reports back that cal is needed then you've probably got a hardware issue.

On the other hand, let's have a look at what affects auto-cal:

First there is the temperature drift auto-cal setting located under Utilities->Preference Setup:

(https://i.ibb.co/DzDz831/Automatic-Calibration.jpg)

Hypothesis:  Leave it on and auto-cal will run periodically if the room/instrument temperature changes, leave it off auto-cal will not run but accuracy will be a function of temperature.



Service menu (have to log in) Production->AladdinAcqBoard->Calibration:

(https://i.ibb.co/5LMyyxV/Cal-Service1.jpg)

It appears that you can inspect, adjust, verify, and recalibrate the various curves here.  There is also an "Auto cal" chckbox that does  not seem to track the user settable temperature auto-calibration, so I think it might be something else.
Hypothesis:  Unchecking this auto-cal box may disable automatic calibration when switching timebase and vertical input scales.



Service menu (have to log in) Service->AladdinAcqBoard->AutoCal:

(https://i.ibb.co/VjWJKxB/Service-Auto-Cal1.jpg)

Here we can see and perform the individual calibrations that are done as part of auto-calibration.  These are pretty self-explanatory except for "Hopping."  Perhaps someone else knows more about this term than I do.  LeCroy has a patent where they refer to using "hopping circuitry" to resolve digital divider phase.  My guess would be that the "Hopping" cal either synchronizes digital dividers across channels or has something to do with ADC interleave alignment.

To run the calibration you stop the scope (Trigger->Stop), check the boxes for the calibrations you want to run, then press the "Calibrate Scope" button.


Then in the bottom-right is the front-end gain cal optimize setting:

(https://i.ibb.co/4JGvfXR/FEGain-Cal-Optimize.jpg)

These are curious choices since they don't seem like a natural trade-off.  I guess in the one case you will have fewer but longer calibrations and in the other you will have more frequent but shorter calibrations.  Sounds like a wash in the end to me...



Finally there is the calibration cache which I have mentioned before in another thread on here:

(https://i.ibb.co/HHRHnM7/Service-Auto-Cal2.jpg)

The cache is a password-protected Access database with a table for the instrument setup and tables for each of the calibration curves (ADC delay, ADC FE gain, ADC FE offset, ADC gain, ADC offset, trigger propagation delay, and positive and negative trigger threshold).

An instrument setup defines the instrument state that the calibration curves were taken at.  The setup is made up of volts/div on each channel, fixed gain of each channel, input attenuation of each channel, bandwidth of each channel, input coupling of each channel, horizontal time scale, whether or not an external clock is being used, the trigger type and source channel, and temperature.

Change any one of those variables and it is a new row in the setup table which probably means a new calibration may be performed.  I highlight temperature because it is the one thing outside of user control.

The curves all have a foreign key for the setup table (CacheSetup) primary key and it looks like there are up to 24 curve rows per curve table per setup.  For 4 channels that would be 6 points for each channel.

Hypothesis:  Leaving the cal cache enabled (both boxes checked) will, over time as it grows, reduce the number of automatic calibrations required when twirling knobs at the same temperature.  Leaving it off will maximize auto-calibration pain.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Xtreemtec on January 01, 2019, 05:15:25 pm

Service menu (have to log in) Service->AladdinAcqBoard->AutoCal:

Thanks for this detailed information.   Want to try to fiddle with these settings for a bit.  Got a full clone of the D partition. So in any case i could go back to my original settings.


As for the AutoCalibrate:  Manual says:>>
Quote
Auto-calibration
You can choose to have your instrument automatic
ally recalibrate itself whenever there is a
significant change in ambient temperature. If
you do not enable this option, the scope will only
recalibrate at startup and whenever you make
 a change to certain operating conditions.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 26, 2019, 01:50:56 am
i tried to install xstream dso device driver in Windows 7 using dxl's latest version, but i'm getting error 12 cant find resources etc. xstream SW wont run it says unauthorized to run. any idea how to make it work?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on January 26, 2019, 03:51:50 am
X-Stream won't run until the acquisition driver is working and it can talk to hardware.  Google says that code 12 may be caused by a resource conflict and you may be able to use the device troubleshooter to determine which device is conflicting with the card: 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-hardware/windows-device-manager-error-code-12/54b62f09-39b5-4044-9051-7820013c44fd?auth=1

You could try to move the acquisition card to a different PCI slot, remove any other peripherals, disable sound and Ethernet, etc.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 26, 2019, 04:58:23 pm
You could try to move the acquisition card to a different PCI slot, remove any other peripherals, disable sound and Ethernet, etc.
did all those, none success. i also swapped driver to original XP driver. the irony is, all those hardwares work flawlessly under original OS (Windows XP), can i blame Windows 7? a nicer look Windows that doesnt work. i did check Win7 system resources, i cant find conflicting device that tried to use resources assigned to the xstream device. its just the xstream device seems cant make use of it. resources allocated for the xstream device is 0000B800 - 0000B9FF, 0000BC00 - 0000BC3F and FE00000 - FE7FFFFF  :-//
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on January 26, 2019, 06:45:42 pm
Have you tried the same sort of adjustments, but through BIOS?  Could be a setting in there that's blocking or allocating resources in a way that the card doesn't like.



Also, I haven't seen those calibration menu screens before.... anyone have a service password they wouldn't mind sharing  :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 27, 2019, 02:55:37 am
well fresh install for both Win7 and WinXP on this Lecroy machine proved challenging. in W7 its XStream device FU, in WXP its touch screen FU. this is the hardest format i've ever made |O. i believe touchscreen issue has never been resolved here (other than HW changes and hacks) as i read earlier posting in this thread but not sure if its resolved in the middle TLDR, but istr i never saw it. so here is my method on how to make touch screen install works in WXP. this with help of 2 things...

1) the remnant of UPDD v3.08x can still be found here by DMC corp... https://www.hmisource.com/otasuke/download/freesoft/tp_driver_upddver3.htm (https://www.hmisource.com/otasuke/download/freesoft/tp_driver_upddver3.htm) -> UPDD_30846P.zip (http://www.hmisource.com/otasuke/files/freesoft/UPDD_30846P.zip)

2) the original system of my Lecroy DDA-5005A, ie the installed UPDD 3.08.34 and its registry entries...

#1 is newer version 3.08.46 but will not work right away with the original driver 3M Touch Systems SC4 Serial interface from MicroTouch, its using TMC-1310D interface. so after exhaustive install uninstall, tweak untweak, what i did is what i usually did, copy the original registry and then just overwrite it into the WXP fresh install. and walla, after calibration, it works. now XStream SW works as it should, switch on power button to xstream splash screen now takes 20 secs, and to visible signal display (after that annoying auto calibration) in 55 secs. switch off is approximately instantly.

btw. i've recovered the original WXP install of this 5005 much earlier from boot failure and i can have it running and walk around it, but i think its a bit bloated and less optimized after years of usage from the original owner (typical Windows behavior). so i will keep it in imaged form until when necessary. the completed new install will also being imaged since overtime when Windows get overbloated and mixed up, all i need to do is one single button click of "Recovery" and everything will be there again like today.

i cant commit the eternal life of UPDD_30846P.zip in here because its 3MB+ so follow the above link while still can. and the registry needed for the hack is attached, at least it works in my new install, i hope it will also works for others. but you have to choose appropriately between ControlSet002 and ControlSet003 because my original system stored registries in ControlSet002 but my new install stored things in ControlSet003. so i saved the ControlSet002 from original, edited it to save in ControlSet003. but i think you can simply run all without any harm, precaution: please do check your system that it will not overwrite unrelated or important section of your registry, although i think its very unlikely, but backup your system first is advisable, esp if you have spent humongous amount of time decorating it like flowers or dont have necessary tool/setup to do a fresh format install. fwiw...

ps: the DMC logo in UPDD can be changed back to the original MicroTouch 3M logo. but i will not do it. i will give credit to DMC corp for still providing the install files, let it stay in Lecroy's tool.

edit: and oh i forgot, just in case after UPDD install it asks for the touch driver endlessly, restart the PC, err the DSO and update to the 2nd attachment driver, fwiw...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 27, 2019, 03:41:30 am
Direct download link?
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/391535O/updd-3-8-rev34-driver.zip?fn=updd3_8_34.zip (http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/391535O/updd-3-8-rev34-driver.zip?fn=updd3_8_34.zip)
duh :palm: why i was too occupied until i missed this? :palm: o well... everyday something to learn ;D
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on January 28, 2019, 10:06:51 pm
i tried to install xstream dso device driver in Windows 7 using dxl's latest version, but i'm getting error 12 cant find resources etc. xstream SW wont run it says unauthorized to run. any idea how to make it work?

I had the same problems. I never got the ACQ board running on a D865GLC or similar board in Win7. Works fine with XP but not Win7. I haven't found any real resource conflicts but I assume there's a problem with the graphics driver. I don't remember if I tried a different graphics card.
I finally changed to an AIMB-584 with internal LVDS and a new G104X1 XGA LCD panel.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on January 28, 2019, 10:43:44 pm
Concerning the Touch drivers: I didn't have a problem getting UPDD running in Win7 for my DDA-5005. Worked like a charm but that sope uses a newer I/O Board with 3 heat sinks and the large 89C58 as in dxl's post #26.

But my DDA3000 uses a different (I assume older) version of that board with almost nothing on it. Especially the touch controller consists of:
- Littelfuse SP723AG TVS Diode array
- ADS7843 Touch controller (Burr Brown, now TI)
- P89LPC922F microcontroller (80C51)
- and of course an ST232/MAX232
- there is another P87LPC767BD controller, I think this mainly handles the front panel communication. Not sure why it's connected to the touch screen.
As the microcontrollers can probably emulate anything, what's the easiest method to find the correct touch driver?

The machine came with W2k and the UPDD driver for 3M SC4 installed to COM3 (the COM port on the Lecroy PCI card) but I'm not sure if this ever worked. The digitizer was dead so I got a new 3M replacement (it's a dawar tech with 2 pins swapped but it should be OK). But I couldn't get the UPDD driver running on COM3 (assigned to the Lecroy COM port). There is some serial communication going from the PCI card to the IO board but the IO board (or the touch controller) doesn't seem to respond. The new digitizer at least works with some crappy ebay USB touch controller. But I'd like to get the original driver running if possible.

So if anybody knows if this hardware revision should be compatible with a 3M SC4 or if it's something different, please let me know. Or if there are any 3M SC4 compatible touch controllers available I could use in my scope. That would allow to use UPDD and have the functions in the lecroy software as it uses the UPDD dll.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on February 24, 2019, 03:32:39 am
currently progressing to installing xstream system on 865GSA board and Pentium D 945 3.4GHz. trying to install Win7 on it is persistent BSOD, so its not an option for 865GSA + Pentium D 945 hardware combination i think. but in WinXP(SP3), i tried all combinations as follow...

1) from fresh xp_sp3, install dxl win7 driver and then install dsoxstream 7.1.1.2 without built in driver, and test run...
2) installing dsoxstream 8.1.2.0 on top of the (1), and test run...
3) from fresh xp_sp3, install dsoxstream 7.1.1.2 with built in driver, and test run...
4) installing dsoxstream 8.1.2.0 on top of the (3), and test run...

all of those combinations failed to get stable front panel functionality, it becomes random esp in single mode trigger. beside that, i enabled single core cpu in bios on setup (1) and (4) the GUI went super laggy on each trigger, not practical in any way, random front panel feels alot better than that. after sleep i think i will try another setup, ie enable single core in bios, and then fresh winxp_sp3 install from zero (format).

my conclusion... dxl's win7 driver doesnt improve anything for multicore processor in winxp, built in driver of dsoxstream 7.1.1.2 and 8.1.2.0 just do the same. any idea on setup/install combination other than already mentioned will be appreciated.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on February 24, 2019, 11:23:01 am
I didn't get dxl's driver running on my DDA-5005 either, it simply didn't work.
I first assumed that the problem would by parallel IRPs so I created a filter driver to sit above the Lecroy driver and serialize IRPs. But that was not the issue. It seems that successive write IRPs to the front panel fail, so my driver now inserts dummy read IRPs to some kind of status register between successive write IRPs. This way I can use the original Lecroy driver and only fix the LED flickering issue without rewriting everything. I don't have a pretty installer for it and I'm not sure if I have tested it with XP but it definitely works on my DDA-5005 with Win7, both with P4 and Ci5 CPUs.
If you want, you can test it. You basically install the original driver and then install the filter driver and add it to the registry with a small tool. Or remove it if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on February 24, 2019, 03:15:14 pm
I don't have a pretty installer for it and I'm not sure if I have tested it with XP but it definitely works on my DDA-5005 with Win7, both with P4 and Ci5 CPUs.
If you want, you can test it. You basically install the original driver and then install the filter driver and add it to the registry with a small tool. Or remove it if it doesn't work.
yes please give me that i will voluntary as a tester ;) i've been formatting this damn thing for nearly 30 hours straight now.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on February 24, 2019, 05:40:32 pm
In case somebody might need it, here's my filter driver to fix the Lecroy front panel LED flickering/inconsistency issues with multi core CPUs.
Tested on DDA-5005 and DDA-3000 with XP and Win7 (note that Win7 probably requires a different mainboard than D815/D845/D865).

Problem
- Consecutive write operations to the front panel lead to inconsistent LED states when a multi core CPU is installed/used.
Workaround
- The filter driver inserts dummy read operations to the front panel status register between consecutive write operations. This seems to fix the issues.
Installation:
- First install the Lecroy drivers (either by xstream installer or manually, use modified .inf file from dxl for Win7). Ensure the frontpanel works (with the flickering issue).
- Ensure the device name is "Lecroy Front Panel Device":
  - windows device manager, show hidden devices
  - locate Data Acquisition Devices, Lecroy Front Panel Device
  - if it's "Lecroy Front Panel Device", the batch file can be used without argument
  - for a different name, use driver-install.bat [device name], e.g.
    driver-install.bat "Some Other Front Panel Device"
- execute driver-install.bat, check result
- stop and re-start device in device manager or reboot machine
- start xStream and check if the problem is fixed

Please note that I created this for personal use and it has not been tested on a wide range of devices (just DDA-5005, DDA-3000 and I think an SDA-6000). But it might help if dxl's driver doesn't work.
Important: this is only intended for the older serial/PCI based front panels. USB based front panels as in the WaveRunner series don't need this fix.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on February 24, 2019, 11:22:39 pm
Tested on DDA-5005 and DDA-3000 with XP and Win7 (note that Win7 probably requires a different mainboard than D815/D845/D865).
also tested on SDA6000A with 865GSA motherboard + Pentium D 945 processor running Windows XP. installed before the eye blink and the scope is fixed before i know it. works on the first try! :-+ this is a blessing, a magic from the sky. it saved my many hours trying to fix my scope with the outdated HW system on my own.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on February 24, 2019, 11:25:20 pm
ingowien,

Would you be willing to release the source to your driver / put it up on github?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on February 25, 2019, 01:30:30 am
No, this is not possible. The driver is based on Walter Oney's devqueue and filter driver sample from the book "Programming the Microsoft Windows Driver Model" that I purchased years ago. The book's license terms do not allow the distribution of sample source code and derivatives. But it does allow the distribution of binaries without royalties, that's what I'm doing here. Unfortunately I don't have time to rewrite the entire driver to an open source version. And it's not really a goal of mine as all I really need is to get my own scope running with Win7 and a decent CPU.

But as mentioned the code is not complicated. You get the book and start with a combination of the filter driver example and Walter's famous DevQueue for IRP_MJ_READ, IRP_MJ_WRITE and IRP_MJ_DEVICE_CONTROL. Though probably DEVCTL would be sufficient. In the queue's StartIo() that will process the next IRP add a little state machine that tracks for consecutive IRP_MJ_DEVICE_CONTROL with ioCtlCode DDA_IOCTL_FPWRITE = 0xCFDF2010. If this is the case, you change it to a read, mark for later resend and dispatch it to the lower driver. In the completion routine if resend is required, you can either call the driver directly if at passive level or create and schedule a work item with IoAllocateWorkItem() and IoQueueWorkItem() to call the driver at passive level later, again there is a chapter in the book. That's all. I'm not a driver developer and if I can create such a filter driver with the help of Walter Oney's book, any other experienced developer can do it as well. I used VS2010 and VisualDDK to compile the driver, it's just a matter of minutes to create a new driver project with these tools and pull the source files into the new project. The longer part was to add the required logging and to find which IOCTLs are used and what the real issue is.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on February 25, 2019, 01:50:17 am
How weird of you :)

For anyone else interested,
Software samples are now freely available from the publisher:

https://resources.oreilly.com/examples/9780735618039 (https://resources.oreilly.com/examples/9780735618039)

PDF of the second edition of the book appears to be downloadable:
http://read.pudn.com/downloads115/sourcecode/windows/vxd/482261/Programming.the.Microsoft.Windows.Driver.Model.2nd.Edition.pdf (http://read.pudn.com/downloads115/sourcecode/windows/vxd/482261/Programming.the.Microsoft.Windows.Driver.Model.2nd.Edition.pdf)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 05, 2019, 07:15:14 pm
I'm just curious: Did anybody else try the driver and if so, did it work?
Obviously there's no need if dxl's driver works on your hardware but maybe somebody tested it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 05, 2019, 10:05:24 pm
I will install Win7 a little later. However, I heard from another source besides Mechatrommer that the dxl's driver is not working.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 05, 2019, 10:25:38 pm
I never got Win7 working with the original D845 or D865 board. Everything installs fine except the ACQ board driver. I tried different veriants of dxls's modified inf file and created my own versions of it but I always got errors that the driver could not be loaded due to resource conflicts. Though the offset calculations are correct. I couldn't find a conflict except for maybe an IRQ that is supposed to be shared but some issue must have been in Win7 that did not exist in XP.
On a different mainboard (AIMB-581 or AMB-584 as suggested in another thread here), dxl's modified inf file installs. Then you can install the filter driver to fix the multi-core issue.

So there might be two different issues to consider:
- The original Lecroy driver for the ACQ device with dxl's modified .inf file does not install on the D845 board in Win7. Regardless of single core or multi core. Neither dxl's re-programmed front panel driver nor my filter driver will help here as they address the  front panel device, not for the ACQ device. The filter driver only fixes the double write IRP-problem and only works if the original front panel driver can be loaded (which it would but with out ACQ device it doesn't make that much sense).
- On some devices dxl's re-created front panel driver fixes the multi-core issue (flickering) of the Lecroy driver. I'd assume both in XP and in Win7 with a different mainboard.
- On my DDA-5005 dxl's re-created front panel driver did not work. Both for XP and Win7. I think it was loaded but there was no front panel function, if I remember correctly. In this case the filter driver helps. In XP you simply install the original Lecroy drivers and then the filter driver. In Win7 you install the extracted Lecroy drivers with the modified .inf file for Win7 and then then filter driver.

Hope this helps. If you succeed in installing Win7 on a D845 or similar board I'd be highly interested how this works - just for curiosity. Obviously I prefer the Ci5 and the AIMB-Board I have in combination with a new XGA LCD display.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 05, 2019, 10:58:40 pm
Thanks, but I do not see much point in installing Win7 if you still have the old D865 motherboard, and even more so the D845.
The main reason why I want to install Win7 is that more modern motherboards do not have full support for the old Win XP (as in my case ASRock H97M). And this is exactly what I will not do - installing Win7 on the old D865/D845.
When the time comes, I will inform you of the results.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 05, 2019, 11:22:08 pm
Got it, just wanted to ensure you know that Win7 on D845/D865 doesn't make work. There might be some points like improved RDP and USB3 support and hotfixes for another year but yes, the old boards run better (or only) with XP.

Pictures look good, may I ask which LCD panel you use? Is it the original NL8060BC26 or did you find a mechanically matching LVDS display? And where/how do you attach to the video signal?
I wanted to avoid the modification of the signal converter for the parallel port LCD on the I/O board so I changed to a (mechanically incompatible) LVDS display and used the LVDS capable mainboard. But your solution looks good and is more flexible as you obviously don't need a mainboard with an LVDS port.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 06, 2019, 12:06:42 am
I'm just curious: Did anybody else try the driver and if so, did it work?
Obviously there's no need if dxl's driver works on your hardware but maybe somebody tested it.
your driver is one of magic in this thread i hope you dont delete it. you will struggle to wait for another tester as people owning this lecroy stuff is slow progress, let alone someone who willing or capable of  to upgrade his unit to multicore solution. next year or two, maybe you'll hear another guy coming in to join the club. some users with W7 may make dxl driver works, but some may need yours. and i highly believe, your driver is more generic from the way you explained how and why you fixed it. dxl driver only modify how to allocate resources in newer WXP/W7, but your driver hacked/fixed lecroy's driver's bug. its not a bug actually imho, its just it was designed for single core system, so a test on multicore system is out of question during the development, so a simple fix was not feasible when multicore is not in existence during the time.

btw, yeah W7 did not work on my (865GLC, 865GSA) boards, Error 12 Resource Conflict problem. if i want to upgrade to modern MB that supports W7+xstream dso driver, i will need further work on LCD signal path, making the original pcie board half useless, that is not what i want to happen, so for now i stick with older MB and WXP, about WXP bug someone reported his cpu 100% load everytime running xstreamdso app, i dont find it that way on my Pentium D 945 WXP system, except on persistence and 3D view which my cpu will jump from 10-15% to 50-70%, when i deactivate 3D and persistence, cpu will go back to 10-15%, so i guess the cpu load bug on his system was not entirely on WXP fault. fwiw.

btw, i still have problem with the 95W Pentium D 945 cpu on my SDA6000, its not really stable, sometime blue screen. i guess due to overheat (cpu zone can reach 80°C) this i believe due to i changed the older and bigger heatsink+fan (used for Pentium 4 et al during the age) to smaller one used for my Core 2 Quad cpu due to space constraint in the DSO, so it seems smaller heatsink+fan unable to dissipate the cpu heat adequately, i'm waiting liquid cooling solution i think today or tomorrow it should arrive. if later i find out its not cpu temperature issue, then maybe i have to downgrade to cooler and more stable single core Pentium 4 or HT solution :palm: the 2.6GHz 2GB RAM single core original system for my DDA5005 works charmingly on SSD, responsive 3D and stable. fwiw..

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 06, 2019, 12:45:31 am
Pictures look good, may I ask which LCD panel you use? Is it the original NL8060BC26 or did you find a mechanically matching LVDS display? And where/how do you attach to the video signal?
I use the NL10276BC20, which has similar housing drawings, like the NL8060BC26. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2051077/#msg2051077)
Add to this any standard video card and small scaler board, and after that you will no longer depend on a particular motherboard model.

To obtain an image from a video adapter, you can do the same as LeCroy did when producing the LW420  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=294933;image)

Or connect to the connector of the second video adapter port inside the device  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=294929;image).

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on March 06, 2019, 05:23:20 am
dxl driver only modify how to allocate resources in newer WXP/W7, but your driver hacked/fixed lecroy's driver's bug. its not a bug actually imho, its just it was designed for single core system, so a test on multicore system is out of question during the development, so a simple fix was not feasible when multicore is not in existence during the time.

I don't think that's 100% true.  DXL did create a new driver for the front panel to fix the multi-core issue, but I believe he removed some of his posts on the topic.  He posted three zip files to this thread and one of them did not have his version of the driver.  His fixes for the other drivers were just inf file changes but the front panel driver was original (the .sys file is different).

Perhaps some of the people having trouble are using the archive without his driver.

Multi-core / Multi-processor systems were in existence and supported by XP so it's not a problem of the technology not being in existence, but I agree that LeCroy only intended the driver for use on the single-core system it shipped with.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 06, 2019, 09:32:07 am
I don't think that's 100% true.  DXL did create a new driver for the front panel to fix the multi-core issue, but I believe he removed some of his posts on the topic.  He posted three zip files to this thread and one of them did not have his version of the driver.  His fixes for the other drivers were just inf file changes but the front panel driver was original (the .sys file is different).

That is correct, there have been different versions. At least with and without the COM port for the touch controller. The modified .inf file just replaces the way W2k/XP handled multi function drivers with the newer VaryingResourceMap. And some might have been with the replaced AladdinFrontPanelDrv.
I've got three versions on my HDD:
drivers_win7-2017-02-24.zip ... modified .inf file without COM port, newer LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys from 2016-07-04 with just 8704 bytes
... still available under https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144239/#msg1144239 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144239/#msg1144239)
drivers_win7-2017-02-25.zip ... modified .inf file with COM port, original front panel driver from 2011 with 12928 bytes
... should be this one https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144579/#msg1144579 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144579/#msg1144579)
drivers_win7-2017-02-26.zip ... modified .inf file with COM port, new  LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys from 2017-02-25 with 8704 bytes
... here  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1145451/#msg1145451 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1145451/#msg1145451)

So all three versions are still there, nothing deleted. In the last post 1145451 from 2017-02-26 he mentions that his version of the front panel driver was not included in the second one.
However his Front panel driver (contained in 1st and 3rd zip file) did not work on my hardware. The second one (original Lecroy) worked with the flickering issue. So to install my driver, you have to use the driver with just the modified .inf file from https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144579/#msg1144579. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144579/#msg1144579.)

Sorry, I still haven't found out how to quote different posts in this forum, that's why I'm just inserting the links. Maybe I'll change my post and add a link to the correct driver package with just the modified .inf file.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on March 06, 2019, 09:50:58 am
I didn't mean the post with the zip file is deleted, I meant posts discussing the development of the front panel driver.  I was pretty sure there was some discussion about it that I can't find anymore and IIRC there was an issue a while back where LeCroy got upset about some posts here and then they vanished (but there were ghostly archives on taptalk :D)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 10, 2019, 11:40:38 am
During the last weeks i tried to get our SDA6020 into service.
I kept the original intel 865 motherboard, but changed from W2K to XP Pro when installing the SSD. Some days ago i put in a Prescott 530 processor and more RAM. Yesterday i installed Ingo's filter driver and it resolved the front panel issue introduced by SMP. Thanks a lot.

Now there is one more issue with the fan controller. Fans are running half speed under W2k most of the time, except during startup of XStream. Temperatures reach about 62 °C maximum (MAM of channel 3). W2K shows one CPU even with the new processor.

The fan controller never behaved under XP. Fans are always running full speed. When i went into the Lecroy service panel under Fan Controller and changed "Config" from 0x0A to 0x3A fans were running half speed, but only until some timer event changed the setting back to 0x0A and after some tries the link to the fan controller screws up in a way similar to the front panel confusion. A red LED "Alarm" lights on the fan controller/Touch controller/LCD controller board.
In the XP device manager the fan controller appears to be working but  "Driver is not using any ressouces because it has a problem". It depends on the Lecroy I2C device.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on March 10, 2019, 11:43:17 pm
I believe the SDA6K series is based on the Wave Master 8K chassis and hardware.  How similar is the WM8K to the Wave Pro 7K -- are you sure it's using the same drivers?  For my own notes it would be great if you would enable show hidden devices in the device manager and list the files and resources being used for each driver.

How do you know the meaning of the values written to the fan controller config register?  Did you look up the part number and get the datasheet?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 11, 2019, 08:42:32 am
Yes, since the SDA6020 is a 20 Gs/sec scope, it must be something like an 8500. Yet very similar to the scopes being discussed here.

I can run the scope with the original HD with W2K and XStream 6.8.1.4 and capture the fan controller panel in service mode. Then i restart the scope with the SSD with XP Pro and XStream 8.1.2.0. Then the only difference is the "Config" entry. So i thought it may be a different setup, but there is something more.

By the way, the same message "Device does not use ressources because it has problems" appears in W2K device manager. The other data of the hidden devices is identical in W2K and XP device managers and in W2K the fan controller behaves as expected. This is why i think there may be another multithreading issue. Maybe i can find something comparing the setup and log files on D: of the two setups. Somewhere above in this thread an I2C device problem was mentioned without details.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 11, 2019, 09:09:11 am
I never paid much attention to this, the scopes are way to loud in any case and only used if really required. But maybe I had issues of non-reducing fans, too. I'll check if I can reproduce this.
Do you get a fan controller error when xstream starts? I think this is just a small message on the splash screen.
Can you share a picture of your I/O card where the fans are attached? There are different versions of that card with different microcontrollers on them.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 11, 2019, 09:28:27 am
The SDA 6020 IO Board.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 11, 2019, 09:40:11 am
Looks similar to the board in my DDA-5005 except that those 5W resistors are smaller and mounted next to the board between the heat sinks. And mine has a 3M Dynapro touch controller, I can't read the label on your picture. I ve seen so many variants of these boards, I'm starting to think they are all different...
I'll check if the fan speeds down on my DDA-5005 in the evening.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 11, 2019, 10:04:20 am
Yes, it has the Dynapro Res4 controller.
The main fans have two speeds: DAC Level 0x00 = full speed, DAC Level 0x33 = reduced speed. The 3 Ohm power resistors can be small because the main fans should really never run "slow". Anyway, when they run "reduced" the noise level is much lower. I guess they tried to select resistors such that the reduced fan level is about sufficient at  20°C room temperature.
The red ALARM LED sits next to the right leg of the upper resistor.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 11, 2019, 11:17:37 am
The SDA 6020 IO Board.
can there be used 2 wires fan? if they come from factory that means rpm feedback (i guess) is not used in sw say to warn user of damaged fan?
btw... while checking thermal profile of my upgraded system, i snapped thermal profile of the pci acq board... manually edited and superimposed in photoshop... fwiw...

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 11, 2019, 11:43:03 am
In our SDA6020 the two main fans for the acquisition board cabinet are actually two wire fans, 2x red/black cables with plugs on middle of upper edge of the photo. The power supply cabinet has a tacho fan, red/yello/black, left plug on upper edge of the board.
Fans are controlled by at least two MAX6651. The service mode fan controller panel represents the register set 1:1. When i got time i will draw the circuit and look at the I2C signals with my Rigol...

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 11, 2019, 06:29:29 pm
Ok, here's the behaviour of my DDA-5005: After power on the fans are on lower speed. This changes to full speed some seconds after xstream starts. After approx. 90..120s, maybe with the first calibration the fans are reduced to the lower speed. I think I only have two speeds here. No errors in xstream. Maybe there's a difference in the default configuraton of the machines.
DDA-5005, AIMB-581, Win7, Drivers from xstream 7.1.1.2, xstream 8.1.0.1. All my fans are 3-pin. All drivers are loaded, working and use resources.
I've not checked what the actual controller is nor the advanced options as I always forget that code to get into the service options.
The alert LED seems to be present on my I/O board, too. But I've never seen it on.
And I completeley missed there is xstream 8.1.2.0 but they won't let me download it without a account verification and a stupid opt-in, so I'll leave it on their server where it's safe...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on March 11, 2019, 06:49:34 pm
That is basically the behavior of the WP7200/7300As I've worked with.  It's not tied to starting XStream, but rather to how long the system has been up, so if you leave it in bios, or boot with the acquisition board uncovered and externally cooled, the timing is about the same.  I believe I've heard the fans speed up again later on in use, but there does seem to be some sort of higher speed mode that's part of the warm up and check process.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 12, 2019, 12:24:17 am
Looks similar to the board in my DDA-5005 except that those 5W resistors are smaller and mounted next to the board between the heat sinks..
These resistors are different because the SDA6020 fans have twice as much power as in WavePro and the usual WaveMaster (15W vs 7.8W; 130mm vs 120mm), which is necessary to cool its double amount ADCs (if you notice, here, instead of the hard disk, is also installed an additional power supply module 48B 350W, and the hard drive was moved to the area CD-ROM drive).
The power system on the ACQ board has been completely redesigned, and as you can see, there is also a higher-quality clock generator.

Yes, since the SDA6020 is a 20 Gs/sec scope, it must be something like an 8500.
More precisely WM8620
I had the experience of low-level hardware repair of this device.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on March 12, 2019, 01:46:27 am
Fans are always running full speed. When i went into the Lecroy service panel under Fan Controller and changed "Config" from 0x0A to 0x3A fans were running half speed, but only until some timer event changed the setting back to 0x0A

This sounds very suspicious to me.  0x0A is the MAX6550 power-on-reset default value (and so is DAC = 0x00).
So far in my observation of my WP7KA the config register is always 0x3a (open-loop) under all operating conditions after firmware is started, which makes sense to me.

What if it's not the fan controller driver but a hardware issue like a noisy power rail causing the chip to occasionally reset?  If you could probe the I2C lines when the change happens it would be interesting to see if it is a commanded change or not.

Another possibility is to try disabling the driver in the device manager right after setting the register to 3a so the driver/firmware can no longer talk to hardware to change it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 12, 2019, 02:31:21 am
is also installed an additional power supply module 48B 350W, and the hard drive was moved to the area CD-ROM drive).
isnt that overkill for just 2A addition? the sda6000 fan is 0.65A each (but tested consumes 0.4A full power), with sda6020's fans 1.3A each, thats only about 2A addition. 350W is (350 / 12) 29A addition, i think it must be something else. i'm thinking about my mod 65W to 95W cpu, thats 2A+ addition, not to mention additional fans and liquid pump (small one) i'm adding to it. anyway i'm ordering 2X 0.22A 65CFM (https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/2-PCS-NMB-4710KL-04W-B19-Cooling-Fan-DC-12V-0-22A-120mm-x-120mm-x-25mm-3-WIRE/273697909461?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649) fan just for experimentation if possible to reduce current consumption and noise... using stock 2X 0.65A 110CFM Panaflo FBA12G12U (https://www.coolerguys.com/products/panaflo-nmb-120-x-38mm-ultra-high-speed-fan-fba12g12u-1bx), the acq board temp is this...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 12, 2019, 03:33:56 am
is also installed an additional power supply module 48B 350W, and the hard drive was moved to the area CD-ROM drive).
isnt that overkill for just 2A addition? the sda6000 fan is 0.65A each (but tested consumes 0.4A full power), with sda6020's fans 1.3A each, thats only about 2A addition. 350W is (350 / 12) 29A addition, i think it must be something else.
Probably you didn’t read very carefully, because I already wrote that the SDA6020 contains twice the number of ADCs (8 × 10Gs/sec), which are the largest energy consumers in LeCroy oscilloscopes.
And this additional power supply 48V (Digital Power Corp eFOA306-148) is used to supply energy only to them, through 4 compact converters Cherokee Apollo QB4548A 48V/3.3V and 48V/2.5V.
A regular power supply, which is present in all models, supplies energy to all other nodes on the ACQ board in SDA6020 (excluding ADC). This power supply scheme is fundamentally different from WavePro7K and SDA6000, etc.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 12, 2019, 10:26:40 am
After drawing some kind of schematic i found that the fan controller section has one of those MAX chips for each of the three big fans and a 3.3 V regulator. The power supply fan driver is shorted out, so the power supply fan always gets the full 12V supply .
The 3.3 V supply works well.
The 22uF output caps don't do anything with the big fans.
When recording the I2C signals i found a lot of spikes, since in the flat cable SDA and SCL are next to each other. But well, those I2C chips have filters and it seems to work.

After some time all fan driver chips reset to full speed without receiving any I2C message. It's the way a missing tacho signal get's handled when the chips are wired and setup like they are on the SDA6020 IO board. Don't know which trick Lecroy used to avoid this behaviour under W2K. But as mechatrommer wrote: It's a good idea to have a tacho and supply the tacho signals to the respective fan controllers. I got some reflective IR sensors, maybe they will serve.
I think i am close to solving that issue, but i have to wait for the white dots on the fan blades dry.

The whole story is a typical example of a Lecroy vent system. It's amazing how many holes existed in our SDA6020 where cool air escaped to the sides before cooling anything. The biggest of those holes is near the IO board. They just don't care for noise, on the contrary. Once a sales engineer said to me "But it's something like a Ferrari, it should be loud." When you turn it on, everybody should come and have a look.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 12, 2019, 10:33:39 am
Are you sure it's not just xStream 6.8.1.4 that handles things differently? If I remember correctly you mentioned that you compared an old 6.8 under W2k and a newer 8.1 unter XP or other OS versions.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 12, 2019, 10:40:27 am
Yes i am pretty shure. On the XP SSD i installed XStream 6.8.1.4 first and only after a week or so upgraded to 8.1.2.0. As far as i remember the fans never went to reduced speed under XP from the very beginning.

Before i forget:
That Digital Corp 48 V supply shown in one of the photos has a terrible hot spot. The 2x 330uF 63V rectifier caps run extremely hot, since they are mounted dense with three 2K resistors needed for stability with light loads. I took the resistors away and mounted them a little further above the unused area of the board. Now the two caps still get heat from the nearby inductor, but they run at about 60 or 70°C and should last a little longer.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on March 12, 2019, 10:50:41 am
When run in open-loop mode mode, the tach is optional for readback only.  Even in closed-loop mode the DAC value will be driven down to 0 but the config register will not change.  Where in the datasheet did you read that the config register will change back to 0x0A on a tachometer fault?  I didn't see it in there.

Your statement about the power supply driver being shorted out doesn't make sense to me.  It wouldn't be intentionally designed that way so perhaps I misunderstand you -- Do you mean the part is not loaded or that it is defective?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 12, 2019, 11:18:41 am
It's a feature. One of the GPIOs is setup as an ALERT* output, another one as FULL_ON* input (GPIO_DEF=0x25). When those pins are wired together, you get some kind of reset on tacho error. When i changed that setup in the service fan controller panel to GPIO_DEF=0x27 and CONFIG=0x3A, the two big fans kept running at reduced speed.

The power supply fan controller is shorted intentionally. They kept the fan controller chip to read the tacho, but they could have saved the mosfet, the cooler and the small parts of the third fan controller. Looks like some kind of rapid prototyping using existing parts.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 12, 2019, 02:08:19 pm
Before i forget:
That Digital Corp 48 V supply shown in one of the photos has a terrible hot spot. The 2x 330uF 63V rectifier caps run extremely hot, since they are mounted dense with three 2K resistors needed for stability with light loads. I took the resistors away and mounted them a little further above the unused area of the board. Now the two caps still get heat from the nearby inductor, but they run at about 60 or 70°C and should last a little longer.

Regards, Dieter
Yes, indeed, this module eFOA306-148 operates in dangerous thermal mode. Only below him is a small gap through which a small airflow is carried out for cooling.

I had to repair this module, as well as one Cherokee QB4548A.
In accordance with my measurements, SDA6020 power consumption 630W, while SDA6000 - 450W, WP7300A - 430W.


i'm thinking about my mod 65W to 95W cpu, thats 2A+ addition, not to mention additional fans and liquid pump (small one) i'm adding to it. anyway i'm ordering 2X 0.22A 65CFM (https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/2-PCS-NMB-4710KL-04W-B19-Cooling-Fan-DC-12V-0-22A-120mm-x-120mm-x-25mm-3-WIRE/273697909461?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649) fan just for experimentation if possible to reduce current consumption and noise... using stock 2X 0.65A 110CFM Panaflo FBA12G12U (https://www.coolerguys.com/products/panaflo-nmb-120-x-38mm-ultra-high-speed-fan-fba12g12u-1bx), the acq board temp is this...
Personally, I would not risk replacing with fans that have less performance. Because for some reason, LeCroy developers are forced to install these powerful fans. However, your study of temperature changes after installing less productive 0.22A 65KFM fans will be useful for analysis. Do not forget to take into account that the static pressure parameter provided by your fan is no less significant. I suppose that in this situation, when LeCroy oscillograph uses long and narrow channels for air circulation through the ACQ board and a small area of holes in the back wall of the instrument housing (by the way, in SDA6020 the area of these ventilation holes is much larger), this parameter will be very important.

I have ideas on how to reduce the noise from cooling, while not reducing the performance of the fans. But more about that later, after the tests.

A thoughtful analysis of the specifications of different models of fans led me to the conclusion that there is only one way to reduce acoustic noise and at the same time not to lose performance - this is an increase in the useful area of ​​the fan blades. At the same time, in order to maintain the same level of performance, the fan rotational speed can be reduced, which will reduce acoustic noise. But you need to be careful, because the reduction in speed leads to a decrease in static pressure, which also depends on the design of the fan blades (you were probably observant and noticed earlier that small fans emit more noise to achieve the same performance as large fans?).
I have already made initial preparations for this experiment, as well as my way of implementing this principle, you can see in the photo below.

Yes, it will require a small expansion of the opening in the original vibration damping plate for the fans. Alternatively, in order not to do this - you can add 2 more conical adapters 120mm/140mm. Transitions should be as smooth as possible.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 13, 2019, 08:49:47 pm
The two big fans in our SDA6020 are COMAIR ROTRON GL12B3, something very special. Those fans do about 300 m³ per hour and have an expected lifetime of 75 000 hours. In the meantime i got both of them equipped with IR reflective sensors as tacho generators and i see the measurement in the XStream service fan controller panel. They run at about 3100 rpm in full speed and about 2400 rpm in reduced speed mode. The Lecroy fan controller panel shows half that value. The power supply fan runs at 3000 rpm and its tacho outputs two pulses per revolution.

But the fans still wanted to run at full speed, so there must be yet another alert source to reset the fan driver chips. After startup the alarm enable bits in the fan driver chips are setup as 0x03, which means ALERT* gets set when fan regulation clamps at min or max output. When i set them to 0x00, still some other source resets the fan drivers after some time, without I2C activity. Maybe there is a hardwired signal path from the acquisition unit to the fan controller.

Some other tests showed that power consumption in the data acquisition system is as variable as in the motherboard. For example, i was wondering maybe the XP system keeps the scope device more busy and hotter than the old W2K system because it is faster. So i put a 100 msec hold off into the trigger. To my surprise after some minutes temperatures in the data aquisition crept up from 60°C to 75°C. So i voluntarily left the fans running at full speed again. Something similar happens with the Intel CPU when you turn on color coded persistence. Processor load goes from 30 % to 80 % and temperatures indicated by the intel activity tool went up by 10°C. The processor fan constantly runs at about 4300 rpm.

I'm not sure how to continue, i mean after the remarks above about non-monitored components running close to thermal limits.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 13, 2019, 09:14:35 pm
Obviously, as I said, here you cannot replace the fans with others that have less performance (if you replace them, then only with ones that are not inferior to these). LeСroy knowingly uses high-performance fans..


But I suppose that not everything is hopeless if you make use of larger diameter fans.
In this case, I recommend to look in the direction of the fan Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000.
This product is not inferior in performance ROTRON GL12B3, but you get 12.3 dB less acoustic noise.

If the data from their datasheets are reliable, then let's compare them:

Noctua has Max Airflow: 158.5 CFM (269.3 m³/h) at 3000 RPM, versus Rotron - 150.00 CFM at 3300 RPM;
Noctua Max Pressure: 0.414 in H₂O (10,52 mm H₂O), Rotron - 0.56 in H₂O (slightly more);
Noctua Acoustical noise 41.3 dB(A), Rotron - 53.6 dB(A);
Noctua Max. input current 0.55 A, Rotron - 1.30 A;
Noctua MTTF> 150,000 h, Rotron - 75,000 h;
Noctua Size 140x140x25 mm, Rotron - 127x127x38 mm

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 14, 2019, 12:56:40 am
A thoughtful analysis of the specifications of different models of fans led me to the conclusion that there is only one way to reduce acoustic noise and at the same time not to lose performance - this is an increase in the useful area of ​​the fan blades.
yes this is the de facto standard, science 101. but using larger fan will have space penalty. if larger fan still can fit inside the casing then thats good, but we still need adapter as you said, some conical type or something. i'm thinking of using 3-5 quieter fans from outside and have ducted system (3D printed again? ::)) to bring all the accumulated air into the hole blowing the acq module. 2 holes means 10 fans but this will be a hard cored modification level you'll have a dso with extra depth at behind and have rear casing hole-punched violently for the ducts.

At the same time, in order to maintain the same level of performance, the fan rotational speed can be reduced, which will reduce acoustic noise. But you need to be careful, because the reduction in speed leads to a decrease in static pressure, which also depends on the design of the fan blades (you were probably observant and noticed earlier that small fans emit more noise to achieve the same performance as large fans?).
I have already made initial preparations for this experiment, as well as my way of implementing this principle, you can see in the photo below.
if you are thinking stacking 2 fans together one on top of the other, i've tried that earlier, i got twice the current consumption, but no noticeable (or very slight increase) in air flow. measured with my cheapy anemometer. but maybe thats me, you may have some success... due to that, i also ordering this from the same seller earlier...
https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/DELTA-GFB0912EHG-Cooling-Fan-DC-12V-2-1A-92mm-x-92mm-x-50mm/273687846565?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/DELTA-GFB0912EHG-Cooling-Fan-DC-12V-2-1A-92mm-x-92mm-x-50mm/273687846565?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)
he got many fans option, so i ordered a few, i wish i can buy more but money is limitation. its counter rotating double fan from the look it has 8 pins i guess 4 pins for each fan. but at 2A, that will be a nasty fan i dont think its suitable for the dso, i only bought it for experimentation and possibility for other project.

if you noticed the 120mm 0.22A fan i linked earlier is 9 blades instead of 7, thats why i bought it to see how more blades fan performs. google doesnt give me definitive answer. ymmv..
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on March 14, 2019, 02:14:01 am
On my WP7KA the MAX6651 system fan settings are:

SPEED:    0x00
CONFIG:   0x3a   Open loop operation, 12V tach signal, scale = divide by 4
GPIO_DEF: 0x25   GPIO0=/ALERT output, GPIO1=/FULL_ON input, GPIO2-4 = output logic low
DAC:      0x33   Open-loop fan speed
AL_EN:    0x03   MIN and MAX output alarms enabled *See note
ALARM:    0x00
TACHO_0:  0x4c
TACHO_1:  0x01
TACHO_2:  0x01
TACHO_3:  0x01
GPIO_S:   0x03  GPIO0, GPIO1 status high
COUNT:    0x02
RPM: 2280


And please note:
Quote
Alarm-Enable and Status Registers
The alarms are enabled only when the appropriate bits of
the Alarm-Enable Register are set (Table 7). The maximum
and minimum output level alarms function only
when the device is configured to operate in the closed loop
mode
(see the Configuration-Byte Register section).

So the alarms, despite being enabled, will not function in open-loop mode.

I don't think your MAX6651 reset is normal, nor do I believe it's being intentionally reset by mysterious means.
The /ALERT output being wired to the /FULL_ON output is normal.  In fact the MAX6651 is designed so that all the MAX6651's in the system tie their /ALERT and /FULL_ON signals together so that an alarm on any one fan causes all the fans in the system to go to full-speed.  The outputs are open-drain so there won't be any conflicts.  You said this is weirdness on LeCroy's part but it's actually described in the Maxim datasheet.

I'd be very surprised if pulling the /FULL_ON node low caused the chip to reset or changed the CONFIG register, but I'll admit I havnen't tried it yet to to find out.  Still you could just probe the node and prove to yourself that the alarm has nothing to do with this.

Did you probe the chip Vcc with a scope for an extended time to catch any brief brownouts that might reset it?  My MAX6651 appears to be configured just like yours but it runs all day without ever resetting.  I still suspect that something is periodically changing the load on your power rails and resetting the fan controllers or there is some other similar hardware issue going on.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 14, 2019, 02:49:25 am
if you are thinking stacking 2 fans together one on top of the other, i've tried that earlier, i got twice the current consumption, but no noticeable (or very slight increase) in air flow.

Hi Mechatrommer,
In no case. I do not plan any sequential stacking of fans. After all, I clearly explained my concept: I use an increase in the working area of ​​the opening inside the fan while reducing the rotor speed.

The cascade twin-shaft pump which you showed (2 fans with different directions of rotation in one long pipe) even in case of lower performance will create much more noise than the original LeCroy fans due to severe air breaks, turbulence, so the goal of this upgrade will be lost. Such sequential fan stages are not designed to produce low noise, but only to increase the static pressure. I have never offered anything like this. In my post above, I explained in detail (including specifications) what I mean. In my photos you could see that the conical adapter for the 140mm fan is not a problem for placement inside this spacious LeCroy's box.

Quote
if you noticed the 120mm 0.22A fan i linked earlier is 9 blades instead of 7, thats why i bought it to see how more blades fan performs. google doesnt give me definitive answer.
No, changing the number of blades inside a single fan does not directly affect its amount of radiated noise, or its performance, just make sure of it, looking at the specifications and the results of comparative tests, which are published a lot on the Internet..
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on March 14, 2019, 04:06:34 am
Worth mentioning that using a reducer has its issues as well, if it's too short (not these, but the like <1cm high ones), it can create extra turbulence and reduce flow while increasing noise, but in any case, because of the smaller aperture on the side that's connecting to the chassis, performance is much more dependent on static air pressure than the same fan on a properly sized mounting hole.  Then it sort of depends on the air resistance of the system you're pushing air into - the density of the heatsinks, the objects in the path, the size of the vents - if they're too resistant, you will need higher static pressure rating to get the full air flow, and the reducer effectively adds to that total resistance when using a larger fan.  If the static pressure is high enough, it's all good, but it would need to be higher than the static pressure rating of the original fan to perform to its full specification in terms of flow rate if the original fan only produced "enough" static pressure to operate at its specified flow rate.

I don't have the experience measuring it to really quantify by how much, but I'd venture to say that 140mm Noctua mentioned a few posts above would actually perform slightly worse than the original 120mm fan, since its rated CFM is only marginally higher and the static pressure is considerably lower, though the noise level would be less.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 14, 2019, 04:32:07 am
In no case. I do not plan any sequential stacking of fans. After all, I clearly explained my concept: I use an increase in the working area of ​​the opening inside the fan while reducing the rotor speed.
sorry for misunderstanding, but i just looking at your pictures below.

The cascade twin-shaft pump which you showed (2 fans with different directions of rotation in one long pipe) even in case of lower performance will create much more noise than the original LeCroy fans due to severe air breaks, turbulence, so the goal of this upgrade will be lost. Such sequential fan stages are not designed to produce low noise, but only to increase the static pressure. I have never offered anything like this.
i clearly stated its a nasty fan, not suitable for this dso project and only be used for other purpose.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=674904;image)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 14, 2019, 04:58:14 am

I don't have the experience measuring it to really quantify by how much, but I'd venture to say that 140mm Noctua mentioned a few posts above would actually perform slightly worse than the original 120mm fan, since its rated CFM is only marginally higher and the static pressure is considerably lower, though the noise level would be less.
And who can take responsibility to say for sure - to what extent this device creates resistance to flow and which of these two parameters (Airflow or Pressure) will have a greater effect? In addition, we do not know the Airflow proportionality chart from Pressure for these two fan models and cannot analyze them in a real situation (it is possible that Noctua will overtake Rotron under some conditions).
This will only show the experiment.
The fans in the example mentioned above may well demonstrate the same efficiency (after all, they both create outstanding pressure value which may be excessive in both models for this case), but Noctua will create less noise.

The cross-section of the conical adapter in the 120-mm linking plane is no less than the section in the opening area of the 140mm fan, because in the sectional plane of the fan the motor displaces part of the volume. A well-designed conical adapter (with a smooth transition) will not add noise.

sorry for misunderstanding, but i just looking at your pictures below.
Not problem, I just showed the photo to compare the size ;)
Thermalright TY-143 (2500 rpm) on rolling bearings is one of the interesting low-cost alternatives to a high-performance fan. They are said to have been copied from Noctua.
It has mounting holes, located as in a 120mm fan - this can simplify their installation in Lecroy.

I have seen many pre-made templates for fan adapters.
https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=fan+adapter&dwh=485c89ec8f26c34 (https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=fan+adapter&dwh=485c89ec8f26c34)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:21112 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:21112)
In our case, it seems more suitable adapter with a slight shift to the right and toward the center of the case.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=674916;image (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=674916;image)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: bnz on March 14, 2019, 08:44:46 am
How do I remove the upper cover of the DDA3000?
Unscrew the rear feet and then ... :-//
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 14, 2019, 11:35:36 am
unscrew the front panel bezel, thats 3 screw underneath. with the bezel off, you should see 7 screws on the casing, 3 on top, 4 on both sides.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 15, 2019, 10:15:37 pm
Now i looked little bit more onto the IO board of our SDA6020.
U5 is a watchdog controller MAX6369KA-T (Mark: AADC). R10 to R12 are its setup resistors and on my board they are all connected to +3V3, which means startup delay time of 60 .. 180 seconds and watchdog timeout of 10 .. 30 seconds.
Its input is driven by the I2C SCL line.
Its open drain output drives the signal that is common to all four fan drivers' ALERT* and FULL_ON* pins and on which the ALARM LED is connected. The output pulse width is 100 .. 300 msec. An Alert* condition on this line by other sources restarts the watchdog.
This means that without regular I2C activity, the fan controllers are reset into full speed mode after the timeout period.
Now with W2K i have I2C activity every 13 seconds and the watchdog never fires. For yet unknown reason this activity does not happen with the XP/SSD installation. Fan controllers are reset by the watchdog and fans will run at full speed.

By the way: The Rigol I2C decoder didn't produce anything meaningful and they don't answer EMails, not even an automatic answer.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: pquadrat on March 19, 2019, 07:38:21 pm
I got a LeCroy WaveMaster 8600A with a defect. Seems to be the same defect as wldshy had it earlier in this thread, "communication problems".
I checked the 10GHz output of the oscillator, and after a minute or so, it starts jumping around several 100MHz, sometimes it is totally gone.
The 100MHz oscillator seems to be stable.

When I keep the oscillator box cool with cooling spray, it works fine.

When I have fixed this, I plan to do the motherboard/CPU/Windows 7 upgrade as converter did it, with a 1024*768 display. Asrock Board and i3 CPU are in the mail (from ebay).

Any suggestions on the oscillator? I think the problem may be an aging GaAs device. Any advice welcome.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: pquadrat on March 19, 2019, 07:40:23 pm
Btw., this is an early unit with a Pentium III board.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 19, 2019, 09:41:16 pm
Unfortunately, I found only this scheme. But there is no diagram of the internal 10GHz module.
As far as I understand, there must be a PLL multiplier inside. If you have already checked the input signals and the power supply for it, you probably now need to open it and see what it consists of. Maybe he needs a PLL loop adjustment.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 19, 2019, 11:15:25 pm
Once more about the SDA6020 fans running full speed under XP (solution):

On W2K the fan controllers' I2C polling starts with windows and is independent of user logon or XStream startup or exit. That means once W2K is up and running I2C gets polled regularly. In addition during XStream startup it communicates, setting the DAC values first to 0x00 and later to 0x33. So during XStream startup the fans run full speed for some time and are controlled back to reduced speed some time later.

I can't understand it any better, but it appears to me the Lecroy XStream 6.8.1.4 download is meant as an upgrade only. It installs under a fresh XP and the DSO appears to work, but the fan controller inf file has certain lines commented and it does not yield a correct setup. It will not send the I2C poll messages necessary to keep the fan drivers' watchdog satisfied. XStream 8.1.2.0 apparently does not contain any of those drivers.

The issue disappeared when i used the AladdinDrivers2.inf of dxl with the VaryingResourceMap descriptors. Then the issue in the fan controller device resources disappeared - it showed up with one byte port as resource, just as shown above by ingowien. I could use the original drivers, just with dxl's modified inf files. For the front panel i used the filter driver solution of ingowien.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 20, 2019, 12:11:58 am
Thank you Dieter for sharing the information. I am sure that your experience will be useful for someone.
But, surprisingly, in my SDA6020, after a clean installation of standard distributions X-Stream, the fans are controlled correctly.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 20, 2019, 06:56:31 am
Yes, for me fan noise makes a big difference.

Maybe you got some other XStream distribution, while i was referring to the ones currently offered on the Teledyne LeCroy website under "Firmware upgrade". Maybe it also depends on the status of XP. I used installation media marked as "SP3". Also i don't know whether special users/groups should be used during XStream installation.

When i look at the above photo of the 10 GHz source innards: I'd first check the solder joints where the two boards are connected. This looks  a bit unconventional but should work well if the solder joints contain short wire bridges. Solder alone can be rather brittle.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 20, 2019, 11:03:18 am
In the XP device manager the fan controller appears to be working but  "Driver is not using any ressouces because it has a problem".
thanks for highlighting this i thought ZtiLecroyFPanelFix (ingowien) is all that needed for everything to work. so i updated my system to include dxl driver, but has to reinstall ZtiLecroyFPanelFix again after that because dxl driver overwrite it. so now all driver resources allocated nicely. but comparing with when no resource is allocated, there's not much difference during start up. dso will start at fan half speed, when xstream sw loads then fan go full speed, after sometime it goes half speed again, one thing i noticed with dxl driver, when checking acq temperature in service mode, when i click refresh button, sometime fan will change speed lo to hi and hi to lo, quite quickly its like responding to my refresh button press, it happened when my acq board is quite hot, MAM at around 85°C+, this speed change doesnt happen without dxl driver (resource not allocated) but i only did quick test i maybe wrong someone should confirm this. if xstream sw is really clever when dxl is installed, it doesnt really care if MAM goes hot and maybe only regulate when MAM 85°C+. attached is showing how hot my acq board is and at this condition sw still happily to turn the fan speed down while i press refresh button. is it normal or not i dont know. i have a feeling when dxl driver is not installed, with occasional fan at full speed, this will keep acq board cooler. ymmv.

And I completeley missed there is xstream 8.1.2.0 but they won't let me download it without a account verification and a stupid opt-in, so I'll leave it on their server where it's safe...
i noticed few GUI updates in ver 8.1.2.0 compared to 7.1.1.2, one of it is Spectrum Analyzer interface, 8.1.2.0 will draw channels and SA side by side which is nicer compared to all vertical view of 7.1.1.2, channels, SA, and 2D/3D SA views all in vertical arrangement, they are compressed so hard on already smaller monitor height and difficult to see each one of them. 8.1.2.0 arrangement is more logical, thats why i stick with 8.1.2.0 i will downgrade to 7.1.1.2 if only i want to do servicing that i cant do in 8.1.2.0, i've made OS images for all combination of them so i can change version quickly in case something i cant do in ver 8.1.2.0. what sucks on both version is i still cant make different or custom view arrangement in SA View ON mode. another feature in 8.1.2.0 is we can change horizontal offset and each channel vertical offset by touch screen, i havent noticed that capability in 7.1.1.2 but i stand to be corrected.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: pquadrat on March 20, 2019, 12:43:15 pm
Unfortunately, I found only this scheme. But there is no diagram of the internal 10GHz module.
As far as I understand, there must be a PLL multiplier inside. If you have already checked the input signals and the power supply for it, you probably now need to open it and see what it consists of. Maybe he needs a PLL loop adjustment.

Thanks!

After re-adjusting the 10GHz oscillator, it works fine (until now). I had to turn the golden screw (under the MTI protective sticker) 90 degrees clockwise. 0 degrees was one end of the stable range, 180 degrees the other end, so I took the center.

Here is some information about these MTI GHz oscillators: http://reactancelabs.com/?p=385 (http://reactancelabs.com/?p=385)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 23, 2019, 05:58:32 pm
A small question, maybe OT: Can anybody recommend a pinheader part to connect to the LeCroy probe port of these GHz scopes?
I know the coaxial connector sells under "BMA" and got some from Mouser.
Could not find the 2 mm raster 2x3 pin header because it is somewhat special in that it needs to have 0,7 mm round pins instead of the usual 0,5 mm rectangular pins. And the pins can be about 1 mm longer than usual 4,4 mm length. Once again a very special part.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 24, 2019, 03:23:03 pm
anyway i'm ordering 2X 0.22A 65CFM (https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/2-PCS-NMB-4710KL-04W-B19-Cooling-Fan-DC-12V-0-22A-120mm-x-120mm-x-25mm-3-WIRE/273697909461?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649) fan just for experimentation if possible to reduce current consumption and noise... using stock 2X 0.65A 110CFM Panaflo FBA12G12U (https://www.coolerguys.com/products/panaflo-nmb-120-x-38mm-ultra-high-speed-fan-fba12g12u-1bx), the acq board temp is this...

Just out of curiosity. What temperature did you get when using the "NMB 4710KL-04W-B19 12V 0.22A" fans?
How much has this changed in comparison with standard Panaflo FBA12G12U fans under the same experimental conditions?


A small question, maybe OT: Can anybody recommend a pinheader part to connect to the LeCroy probe port of these GHz scopes?
I know the coaxial connector sells under "BMA" and got some from Mouser.
I have no idea, but to buy some faulty Wavelink Probe Body, when it will be inexpensive.
As I understand it, you want to make a makeshift active probe?

2 years ago I made an order for the production of BMA/BNC adapters in China 1688.com site in accordance with my technical specification.
It cost only $2.5 for each adapter. For a secure attachment to the oscilloscope, it is still recommended to supplement it with a box.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 24, 2019, 06:11:58 pm
anyway i'm ordering 2X 0.22A 65CFM (https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/2-PCS-NMB-4710KL-04W-B19-Cooling-Fan-DC-12V-0-22A-120mm-x-120mm-x-25mm-3-WIRE/273697909461?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649) fan just for experimentation if possible to reduce current consumption and noise... using stock 2X 0.65A 110CFM Panaflo FBA12G12U (https://www.coolerguys.com/products/panaflo-nmb-120-x-38mm-ultra-high-speed-fan-fba12g12u-1bx), the acq board temp is this...
Just out of curiosity. What temperature did you get when using the "NMB 4710KL-04W-B19 12V 0.22A" fans?
How much has this changed in comparison with standard Panaflo FBA12G12U fans under the same experimental conditions?
i received those fans but they cannot go, as they consume 0.5A each when tested, wind blow is good, maybe nearly as powerful as panaflo fan, but i didnt measure as there is no current saving advantage, i leave original panaflo fans as is, dont want to waste more time on this, i've spent too much time already, i'm tired and next projects are waiting, new projects coming in and keep pushing. the only advantage is some space saving as the NMB fans are thinner compared to panaflo, but i dont need it yet. i'll keep them as spare or for other project, i left the seller +ve feedback for sending me more powerful fans than advertised :palm: (the funny thing the label is as advertised in picture, so its the factory that didnt know how to measure current and put wrong labelling) shipping was quick.

A small question, maybe OT: Can anybody recommend a pinheader part to connect to the LeCroy probe port of these GHz scopes?
I know the coaxial connector sells under "BMA" and got some from Mouser.
2 years ago I made an order for the production of BMA/BNC adapters in China 1688.com site in accordance with my technical specification.
It cost only $2.5 for each adapter. For a secure attachment to the oscilloscope, it is still recommended to supplement it with a box.
how do you do that? that site is unreadable and looks like normal consumers store selling bras. $2.5 for both BMA and BNC is cheap, digikey sell the BMA connector alone at $24 the cheapest i found in ebay US was old stock Tensolite BMA to BMA connector at $15 each, i grabbed them all :palm: so its effectively $7.50 per BMA.

I have no idea, but to buy some faulty Wavelink Probe Body, when it will be inexpensive.
i did look for broken probe body, but seller still selling them at insane price :palm: for example is this... $250
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lecroy-WL600-Wavelink-Active-Probe-Body-6Ghz-for-parts/290671476455?hash=item43ad5ebee7:g:S4sAAOxygo9Q8LbJ (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lecroy-WL600-Wavelink-Active-Probe-Body-6Ghz-for-parts/290671476455?hash=item43ad5ebee7:g:S4sAAOxygo9Q8LbJ)
there's X written on it so i guess its broken, but who knows its maybe working or easily fixable. i got a D13000PS at $100+ sold as is, but turned out to be still working. if someone want to hunt for bargain he has to keep waiting patiently but if expecting $24, i think thats eternal wait, better get from digikey or something, or better you teach us how to get the supply from that 1688.com or sell to us at minimal profit :P

btw, this is lecroy dso motherboard upgrade/mod thread, about the probe connector i guess its more relevant in that probe reverse engineering thread...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-probus-reverse-engineering/?topicscreen (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-probus-reverse-engineering/?topicscreen)
but then its for probus i2c interface reverse engineering, also went off topic for this special 2mm pitch 0.76mm dia pin interface search... ymmv...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 24, 2019, 08:01:58 pm
Yes, I also can not agree on the insane prices of parts for Wavelink. It looks even more expensive than analogues Agilent and Tektronix.
Quote
how do you do that? that site is unreadable and looks like normal consumers store selling bras. $2.5 for both BMA and BNC is cheap, digikey sell the BMA connector alone at $24 the cheapest i found in ebay US was old stock Tensolite BMA to BMA connector at $15 each, i grabbed them all :palm: so its effectively $7.50 per BMA.
I sometimes have to go to shop 1688 and Taobao, because often there is no alternative. The reason is not only in very favorable prices, but also in the widest range for many types of goods. For example, I needed parts for a Chinese induction soldering station (control board with protected firmware ROM, spare thermocouples and soldering iron handles), but in eBay and Aliexpress there are no such parts, and such soldering stations are only sold in full. BMA I also could not find anywhere at an affordable price. They were not in eBay and in Aliexpress. In Taobao, I saw a few lots BMA, but the sellers did not want to supply a small quantity for me (obviously, this product is rarely in demand, and the sellers are intermediaries from the manufacturer and they did not have this in stock). In Alibaba it is also available, but there almost always work in bulk. So I had to go in the direction of 1688.com, where the producers of goods are mainly represented.
Unexpectedly for me, right during the online chat (what you saw in the screenshot), the chinaman made 4 adapters for me and uploaded these photos to the chat :). It took him probably 5 minutes. At first, I thought that this pause in the conversation was simply due to the fact that he went to the toilet :).

I think you can also shop in Taobao and at 1688.com, but I have to warn you that this is extremely tedious.

- Firstly, there is a very difficult account registration and verification in the payment system (you will have to send even a screenshot of your passport).

- Secondly, this whole process will have to be done with a site in Chinese (since this is a marketplace designed only for the domestic market of China).

- Thirdly, the purchase on these sites will happen only after you have agreed with the seller on the availability of the goods, the relevance of the price and confirm your shipping address (surprisingly, when it is put up for sale on the website does not mean that it is available :))

- Fourth, you will have to write in a chat in Chinese, almost always those sellers do not know English and do not know how to use online translators.

- Fifth, since these resources are for the intra-Chinese market, sellers almost always do not ship goods outside of China. You will have to use the services of freight forwarding companies and provide your virtual address within China.

- In the sixth (fortunately, this restriction applies only to 1688) your credit cards are not suitable for payment, only credit cards from Chinese banks that can only be received by residents of China are suitable. For payment, you will have to use the services of an intermediary who has an account in a Chinese bank.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 25, 2019, 01:57:22 am
that sounds super tedious esp the learning how to speak and read chinese. maybe you can be a supplier for worldwide? otherwise, the supply from digikey/mouser/element14 will make any derivative product using that connector quite expensive. i pulled the plug and get a original LPA-BNC at $250 just to know whats inside :palm:, now i dont have a use for it :palm: #283421231727 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/283421231727) (was #173793255440 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LeCroy-LPA-BNC-Oscilloscope-Adapter-For-Use-With-LeCroy-Oscilloscope-Probe-/173793255440?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true))
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 25, 2019, 11:57:53 am
Yes, i am in the process of making active probes. First version is single ended and THS4302  based (1.9 GHz). Some info here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gt-1-ghz-diy-differential-probes/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gt-1-ghz-diy-differential-probes/)

It's almost ready to use except that 2x3 pin header. Thanks for the link to the Probus thread. Seems nobody found a commercial source for the connector yet.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on March 25, 2019, 06:42:17 pm

I don't think that's 100% true.  DXL did create a new driver for the front panel to fix the multi-core issue, but I believe he removed some of his posts on the topic.  He posted three zip files to this thread and one of them did not have his version of the driver.  His fixes for the other drivers were just inf file changes but the front panel driver was original (the .sys file is different).

Perhaps some of the people having trouble are using the archive without his driver.

Multi-core / Multi-processor systems were in existence and supported by XP so it's not a problem of the technology not being in existence, but I agree that LeCroy only intended the driver for use on the single-core system it shipped with.

That's correct. The original driver didn't work with Multicore CPUs, so i wrote a new one. Sorry if that one was missing in the last zip file. I don't have the LeCroy anymore (I sold it and switched back to my old TDS754D because i was sick of re-calibrations all the time), but i should still have that driver. I just can't test it anymore. So let me know if someone needs it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 25, 2019, 07:14:44 pm
The original driver didn't work with Multicore CPUs, so i wrote a new one.
with ingowien driver, the original driver (front panel) will work in WinXP, but other drivers (fan controller etc) will not get resources allocated, but still functional. but to allocate resources nicely, your driver need to be installed, but Front Panel still nasty in WinXP if no ingowien driver. so both of your driver and ingowien's will make a nice combo for more functional drivers in WinXP/Win7.

Sorry if that one was missing in the last zip file.
i saved all your driver version, 3 of them. i used ver3 (the last you linked) to install, but at some point i have direct windows to ver2 to find a driver file for xstream dso device.

I don't have the LeCroy anymore (I sold it and switched back to my old TDS754D because i was sick of re-calibrations all the time)
sad to hear, the buyer must be lucky to get upgraded more modern multicore cpu and motherboard dso.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on March 26, 2019, 04:48:00 pm
The original driver didn't work with Multicore CPUs, so i wrote a new one.

Will you refresh my memory and give a little technical background on the issue that you fixed?  I remember there being a discussion about the problem somewhere but I can't find it anymore.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dxl on March 26, 2019, 05:10:27 pm
The original driver didn't work with Multicore CPUs, so i wrote a new one.

Will you refresh my memory and give a little technical background on the issue that you fixed?  I remember there being a discussion about the problem somewhere but I can't find it anymore.

The problem was that the original driver started a LED update function on each CPU. As the original Pentium used in the Lecroy had only one core and no hyperthreading this wasn't a problem. There was still only one function running to update the LED state as there's only one core. With Multicore/Hyperthreading this changed - there were now multiple functions running, each trying to update the LED state. As the frontpanel LED are connected by shift registers (iirc), this messes up the communication. So the fix was to write a driver that spawns only one function for updating, regardless of the CPU count. If the source of the driver would have been available that would have been a one line change - so it was a bit more work to reverse engineer how the lecroy software talks to the Frontpanel Driver.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ingowien on March 27, 2019, 02:04:47 am
with ingowien driver, the original driver (front panel) will work in WinXP, but other drivers (fan controller etc) will not get resources allocated, but still functional. but to allocate resources nicely, your driver need to be installed, but Front Panel still nasty in WinXP if no ingowien driver. so both of your driver and ingowien's will make a nice combo for more functional drivers in WinXP/Win7.

I'd like to understand that because the fan controller driver is always the same. It's the original Lecroy driver. As far as I've seen, dxl replaced the orignal Lecroy front panel driver with his own version. But all the other drivers are the same. The only difference I see is that the .inf file was modified for Win7 support.

So in my opinion the fan controller driver is always the same, the difference for XP might be that if it's installed with the original Lecroy .inf file, memory resources are assigned through the LeCAladdinMFResfilter.sys while with dxl's modified Win7 .inf file memory resources are directly assigned by the PNP manager through the VaryingResourceMaps. That's why you don't see the memory resources as the Windows PNP manager doesn't get them from the .inf file. Instead the are (invisible for the PNPMgr) passed from the filter driver down to the function drivers. Seems to be a bad workaround for non-PNP multifunction devices from the Win95/NT4/W2k days.

So the issue might just be that Windows doesn't show the memory resources if the old Lecroy W2k .inf file is used but the driver is working 100% the same. Or there is a slight difference if the Win7 .inf file used. In either option the same AladdinFanControllerDrv.sys is used.

The difference between dxl's driver and mine is just that dxl replaced the original LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys by his own version while I install a filter driver into the driver stack of the original Lecroy LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys. I still am not sure why dxl's front panel driver didn't work with my hardware, maybe my I/O board is slightly different. But you have to be aware that there have been versions of dxl's .zip files with and without his modified driver. If you install the incorrect one, you'll end up with the original Lecroy drivers installed by the Win7 .inf file which would explain the front panel issues. Just check the date of the .sys files. If LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys is from 2011 as the other .sys files it's the original Lecroy driver.

So depending on which of dxl's driver .zip files you use, (the one with the Lecroy driver and one with his driver), you might end with a driver setup the requires my fix or not. But the fan driver and the other drivers are the same, they are just installed differently by the .inf file in the Lecroy driver setup package and dxl's modified Win7 .inf file. I just was too lazy to find out how to modify the .inf file to include my filter driver, that's why I used the driver installer to add or remove the filter driver.

That would be my point of view, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd really be interested to find what the issue is.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 27, 2019, 03:18:21 am
I still am not sure why dxl's front panel driver didn't work with my hardware, maybe my I/O board is slightly different. But you have to be aware that there have been versions of dxl's .zip files with and without his modified driver. If you install the incorrect one, you'll end up with the original Lecroy drivers installed by the Win7 .inf file which would explain the front panel issues. Just check the date of the .sys files. If LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys is from 2011 as the other .sys files it's the original Lecroy driver.
just checked all dxl version 1,2,3 (all linked in page 4). version 3 contains LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys modified on 25/2/2017, version 2 (original driver 2/7/2011), version 1 (4/7/2016), the rest of *.sys are original from 2011, except almost all *.inf are modified 2017. when i tried to install dxl driver into my dso, i used version 3, when all drivers installed, WinXP asked again (2nd time) for xstream dso device, if i point to version 3, WinXP seemed to refuse and keep ask again and again, until i point to version 2, after that reboot, printer port driver iirc will problem, i have to switch to oem16.inf iirc instead of oem20.inf to make it correct (or vice versa cant remember i just try and error), and then everything works ok, but front panel still nasty (your earlier filter driver will get overwritten i have to reinstall again). so thats what happened, the detailes inside driver/inf/sys modification i'm a total clueless. after reinstall your driver, everything ok, resources allocation visible, and front panel works flawless, thats all i care. so both of your driver and dxl will make charmfull to the dso. cheers.

So in my opinion the fan controller driver is always the same, the difference for XP might be that if it's installed with the original Lecroy .inf file, memory resources are assigned through the LeCAladdinMFResfilter.sys while with dxl's modified Win7 .inf file memory resources are directly assigned by the PNP manager through the VaryingResourceMaps. That's why you don't see the memory resources as the Windows PNP manager doesn't get them from the .inf file. Instead the are (invisible for the PNPMgr) passed from the filter driver down to the function drivers. Seems to be a bad workaround for non-PNP multifunction devices from the Win95/NT4/W2k days.
if you are correct, then dxl driver is not necessary to install and dso/fan still works ok with your driver alone, since original xstream dso device is installed correctly in WinXP. so i saved both OS version with and without dxl driver. i defaulted to using both of your drivers, in case something weird happen i'll try OS version with your driver alone. seeing resource allocation in device manager will make feeling a bit happy, but i dont know, maybe just placebo effect. fwiw...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: pquadrat on March 27, 2019, 01:20:05 pm
First I have to say, this is a great thread. Thanks to all contributors.

My WaveMaster 8600A is running fine now, the oscillator adjust did the fix. I really like the scope, for me the user interface is very intuitive. Like it more than my new Keysight.

Now I did the upgrade, with a Gigabyte H97M-D3H board (it is similar to converter's ASRock H97M), CPI Intel i3 4360 (3.7GHz), Windows 7 32-bit, Intel 520 SSD.
Original it had only a Pentium III. Now it is super-fast, a joy to operate, no delays, fast boot/startup.

For my machine, the dxl front panel driver did not work, I had to use the original one of dxl's 2nd zip, and ingowien's filter driver.

But in the device manager, there is a COM3 device, which does not load properly, see image. Is it on the LeCroy PCI Card? The 10-pin connector on top?
My touch panel controller was connected to COM1 of the Intel Pentium III motherboard, and is now connected to COM1 of the H97M board.
Any suggestions about this?

Edit: As You can see, on my acquisition board, all parts for the GPIB interface are populated, except the connector. Is there any use in haveing GPIB present?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 27, 2019, 02:19:47 pm
But in the device manager, there is a COM3 device, which does not load properly,
click driver on top tab and update driver button. after proper "questionaires" answering, if you like me, you'll be asked 2 or more driver version. try them all if one of them is working. if none working, try search in version 3 driver. ymmv.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 27, 2019, 05:20:07 pm
I got a similar confusion there. That serial interface could be installed as a PNP driver or using the Lecroy driver with the Lecroy MF filter driver. In my case it was installed as PNP driver (using dxl's inf files), but on XP startup there are messages about "new hardware found". Anyway the touch panel of our SDA6020 works normal with the PNP driver.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on March 27, 2019, 08:02:52 pm

Edit: As You can see, on my acquisition board, all parts for the GPIB interface are populated, except the connector. Is there any use in haveing GPIB present?

In any case, I would not want to use it. The fact is that the PCI bus is the bottleneck in the process of transferring information from the ACQ board to the processor ( this has already been mentioned here  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144114/#msg1144114)). And the additional load on this port leads to a decrease in the frequency of updating waveforms. This was true until the moment when LeCroy began using PCI-e for this purpose instead of the old PCI.

that sounds super tedious esp the learning how to speak and read chinese. maybe you can be a supplier for worldwide? otherwise, the supply from digikey/mouser/element14 will make any derivative product using that connector quite expensive.
 
Unfortunately, there are problems with this.
My forwarding company can deliver from China only to Ukraine. This means that I will receive the goods in Ukraine, and then I need to think of a way to deliver again outside Ukraine. And as I wrote, these trading platforms deliver only within mainland China.
If you personally need to get something from China, you can show me the desired item and I will do it prime cost, but only for you personally.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 28, 2019, 04:29:19 am
Edit: As You can see, on my acquisition board, all parts for the GPIB interface are populated, except the connector. Is there any use in haveing GPIB present?
can you get closer snapshoot picture of the ICs involved? in case someone want to do the mod. maybe adding those chips, enabling GPIB in SW will do the trick? about bottlenecking the card, let the modder decide if update rate is more important, or GPIB functionality is.

If you personally need to get something from China, you can show me the desired item and I will do it prime cost, but only for you personally.
i thought china is "export friendly", but thanks for your offer thats very generous of you.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on March 28, 2019, 07:22:05 am
In our SDA6020 the ICs on pquadrats photo close to the missing GPIB connector are missing, too.

In our machine the PCI board looks very similar otherwise and the touch panel serial connection is on J3. It's a 10 pole flat cable running to IO board J5. XP has a device COM3 with hardware device "MF...LecSerPort" that runs with microsoft drivers serenum.sys and serial.sys. There is another hardware device "MF...LecSerialPort" that remained uninstalled (yellow mark) and generates new hardware found messages.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: pquadrat on March 28, 2019, 08:33:42 am
can you get closer snapshoot picture of the ICs involved? in case someone want to do the mod. maybe adding those chips, enabling GPIB in SW will do the trick? about bottlenecking the card, let the modder decide if update rate is more important, or GPIB functionality is.

I think U16 should be an crystal oscillator.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 28, 2019, 02:43:21 pm
can you get closer snapshoot picture of the ICs involved? in case someone want to do the mod. maybe adding those chips, enabling GPIB in SW will do the trick? about bottlenecking the card, let the modder decide if update rate is more important, or GPIB functionality is.
I think U16 should be an crystal oscillator.
thanks for taking the trouble dismantling it, i thought using camera zoom without removing the board can be done. thanks, researching it, if i'm not mistaken they are...

TNT4882 - http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets2/20/206933_1.pdf (http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets2/20/206933_1.pdf)
74LVTH16245 - http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/88816.pdf (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/88816.pdf)
SN74LVC126A - http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lvc126a.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lvc126a.pdf)

these 3 big chips are missing in my board, and also on previous DDA5005...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dsliwa on March 29, 2019, 05:41:10 pm
I've also upgraded HW on my DDA-3000. However I've recently tried using Sequence sampling, and I'm having trouble using it with the rs232 decoder.
I'd expect the scope to decode every character in the trace, instead it only decodes the last one and the overlay corresponds to a single capture (see attachment).
I've tried the same thing with a wavemaster 8zi it decoded all characters and table even included segment numbers.
Is it a know 7ka/dda-3000 issue or is that a problem of my motherboard/cpu upgrade? Or maybe I'm missing an option?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on March 30, 2019, 04:24:44 am
The newer scopes have hardware-assisted protocol decode and triggering whereas these scopes do it all in software after the segments are captured.  The functionality you describe to automatically perform decode on each segment and combine them in the table only appears in the documentation for the newer scopes so it may not be available on the WP7KA platform.  I say that because I think it may rely on serial triggering on the beginning of any packet and this hardware doesn't have serial triggering.

You can improve RS232/UART decoding performance by:
1) Change the Mode Setup from Byte to Message Frame and set the Interframe Time to to a reasonable pause time between messages.  (Decodes multiple bytes per segment)
2) You can decode 4 messages simultaneously (one per segment) by assigning a segment to a function and then using the function as the protocol decode source

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 01, 2019, 09:00:25 pm
I think that everyone is familiar with the noise from the LeCroy power supplies, which occurs as soon as you turn on the power cord into the outlet. I decided to investigate this source of noise.
I doused all transformers with epoxy varnish, because the factory fixing glue was dry and cracked and the cores began to hang loose.

However, after this, noise did not become quieter. Then I used a pipe that I brought to my ear and studied the source of the noise. You will be surprised, but this turned out to be VISHAY F1773-447-2011 0.47M 253V film capacitors.

I replaced them with some polypropylene capacitors that I had in stock, which are made in tight sealed enclosures. Now the noise is almost completely stopped.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on April 01, 2019, 09:11:40 pm
You mean the click?  I always thought there was some relay kicking in after the standby power was active and stable.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 01, 2019, 10:11:20 pm
No, I mean the constant noise from the power supply, about which everyone writes and which arises immediately, as soon as you insert the plug into the outlet. If you do not suffer from bad hearing, then this noise will annoy you. These noisy capacitors function as a power filter.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 01, 2019, 11:44:08 pm
the buzz, or rattling. i can hear it very dimly when turned on, after dso operation for sometime, turned off, and this buzzing can get a bit louder. thanks converter for doing the work, i mean to do the investigation as well, but i dont think its worth the trouble, psu is the innest core section thats hardest to dismantle, and then, dont fix it if it aint broke rule. btw, it maybe a good idea along the way to get a picture on what power elements used in the psu (those big mosfets) so we can estimate its max power on each rail, so we can know how much additional load we can put safely to it. ymmv.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 02, 2019, 01:04:26 am
At the moment I have already installed the power supply back to the oscilloscope. I had to re-wind the one burned-out choke and replace the exploded capacitor. There was an unstable voltage of -13.5V, and because of this, the offset floated in all channels. Removing the power supply - a troublesome process.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on April 02, 2019, 01:07:37 am
I haven't noticed any noise from my power supplies but I'm not surprised at all that your culprit was the capacitors.  The more experienced hardware people around me always blame the smaller value capacitors for our noisy switching supplies and now I'm prejudiced against capacitors too :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 02, 2019, 01:22:21 am
About 9 oscilloscopes by LeCroy WP and WM I had in my hands and they all have the same noisy power supplies (I have a 50Hz mains frequency 220V, maybe this also affects the noise level?).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on April 02, 2019, 01:29:59 am
I'm 120V@60Hz with two quiet (to me) LeCroy scopes.  I woudln't think that 50Hz vs 60Hz would really make a difference in the switching frequency of the supply and usually supplies with a wide input voltage range will first step up to a common high voltage and then step down so the second half of the supply should operate the same.

Perhaps I'm just going deaf :D  I wish I had the equipment to switch line voltages as an experiment.  :(
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 02, 2019, 02:33:08 am
Yes, but 220V versus 120V I think that matters for the current through the same filter capacitors and, as a result, for the noise level :)
I have already said that these capacitors are installed at the input of the power supply. Therefore, the stabilized voltage of 400V after the node of the converter with power factor correction does not mean that the input capacitors work under equal conditions when the mains voltage changes.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: pquadrat on April 02, 2019, 07:30:26 am
My WaveMaster has also this annoying noise, I always unplug it when its not in use. I will replace the main filter caps asap. My unit is running on 230V, they are connected to mains voltage, so a 110V unit may be much more silent.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 02, 2019, 02:41:55 pm
Noise from filter capacitors through which large impulse currents flow is a fairly well-known phenomenon. As far as I understand, the reason for this is electrostriction. In this case, the pulse currents are most likely created in the capacitor by the switching transistors of the power factor corrector (PFC). Here, the duty ratio and the magnitude of the current in the pulse is strongly dependent on the mains voltage.
These switching transistors close the current through the PFC choke to accumulate energy in it at a certain point in time. At this time, there is a large current pulse through these capacitors (the same as in the release of this energy). The higher the supply voltage, the shorter these pulses will be, but the rate of current rise will be greater, because the inductor inductance is constant. Therefore, the voltage of the mains supply affects the level of noise.
Not all models of capacitors will show less noise after replacing the original ones, you need to select some of them.
Carefully, there is a limit on their height of these capacitors in the power supply case. My capacitors have a height of 18mm. It seems to be the limit.
Before this, it is also necessary to coat all chokes and transformers with a compound or varnish, since there is a high probability of noise from them as well.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on April 02, 2019, 05:23:37 pm
Isn't a capacitor that is working as a tweeter somewhat dissipative and prone to break down?
I just looked up some photos of our SDA 6020 power supply that i made while cleaning and it appears to me those three caps look more or less normal, yet with shadows or discolorations near their wires. What was the state of the old caps in your scope?

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 02, 2019, 06:44:21 pm
Dieter,
They are the main current source for high-power PFC pulses (as I showed in the circuit above). I had to replace them many times in a torn state in the TDK-Lambda Vega series power supplies, where they fulfill the same role. Believe through them there is a huge pulse current.

My capacitors Vishay from the power source LeCroy do have some darkening on top of the film cover.
However, with careful testing using an LCR meter, they did not reveal any anomalies in electrical characteristics.
These Vishay F1773-447 no-boxed Metallized Polyester film capacitors are not a good choice for this place.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on April 03, 2019, 09:22:57 am
At 230 VAC pulse currents are not as terrible and as an example 10 mOhms x 3 A x 3 A just gives 90 mW, so that won't melt a cap. Maybe there are really strong spikes from the PFC inductors parasitic capacitance. Pulse currents should be small during stand-by. Maybe without load the PFC controller doesn't run stable, but in some kind of burst mode.

At 230 VAC one might even turn off the PFC controller during standby. The PFC capacitor will then charge to 310 V instead of 400 V but that should work for stand-by.

PS: The Vishay F1773 datasheet, p6 says : "These  capacitors  are  not  intended  for  continuous  pulse  application.  For  these  situations  capacitors  of  the  AC  and  pulse  programs must be used."

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 03, 2019, 02:47:22 pm
Hi Dieter,

As I understand it, you are now trying to calculate the average reactive current through a 0.47 μF capacitor at a frequency of 50 Hz?
But why no one sees that the load of these capacitors is an impulse current with a frequency of 40-100 kHz, which creates a PFC when it shorts the capacitors with a choke? What is the value of the impulse current there?
I will say it again: the voltage in the mains supply affects the rate of current rise in this choke and the duty cycle. Shorter pulses can create many harmonics and acoustic noise.

Sergey.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on April 03, 2019, 03:36:51 pm
No, no, at about 500 W the PFC choke will carry about 1.25 A  into the 400 V storage, right? Due to modulation the effective current may be about  3 A. The 50 Hz current into the first two filter caps is only about 0,034 A(rms) each at 230 V.

The 150 V/usec rating of those 470nF Vishay caps translates into about 70 A current pulse. It takes that current as a filter cap, but not in a continuous pulse application.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 04, 2019, 03:58:32 am
Quote
Due to modulation the effective current may be about  3 A.
I think that much more. You do not take into account that they are powered not by constant voltage, but by the half-wave of the mains with a peak in the middle. We also do not know the duty cycle of these pulses. In the PFC of such power (600-700W), as a rule, you will see 3-4 MOSFET connected in parallel with 25A current limit for each (this is a necessary measure). At the same time, the traditional PWM converter, which follows after it, you will have a usual half-bridge with MOSFET 10-15A in each arm. This indicates a very different mode of operation of these cascades and the inapplicability of your simplified evaluation.

We must calculate the rate of current rise through the capacitor (which is equal to the current through the choke, since they circuited at the moment of opening the MOSFET) as: di/dt=U/L. I do not know the value of inductance and the pulse duration, so I will refrain from calculating the pulsed current through the inductance. Moreover, the control pulses due to a certain value of the time constant of negative feedback are non-constant in reality (overcompensation effect) at idle and difficult to predict.

I do not want to clutter up this thread with further discussion of the processes in power supply units, there are more suitable topics for this :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on April 04, 2019, 12:04:45 pm
Sergey, PFC pulse currents are about 3x more when running at 80 VAC input (usually one of the design goals), while my estimate was for 230 VAC.

The outcome of this discussion with respect to those LeCroy scopes and alike:
- Hissing caps indicate problems. Those Vishay caps in the LeCroy power supply were designed in by someone who did not read the datasheet.
- Hope my photo demonstrated it makes sense to open the power supply after some years and clean it.

Have another one: The 2x 330uF 63V caps in the additional modular 48V power supply are by no means sufficient for the rated 7.8 A output current. They only survive because that power supply runs at a mere 2.5 A. In our SDA 6020 i will replace them by polymer caps that are rated for ripple currents of 4 A each.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 04, 2019, 12:54:43 pm
This is the right decision. I'm, in my TDK-Lambda Vega power supplies, replaced absolutely all of them with polymer capacitors, since the original capacitors in this place die very quickly.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 22, 2019, 11:01:43 am
can anyone help post their DDA3000 (WavePro) calibration data here? i have here one DDA3000 with damaged HDD, lots of bad sectors, i think C: will be totally unreadable. i did manage to recover D: but there is no calibration folder in it, other than one calibration.zip file in Logs folder but thats dated 2008, the DSO was last calibrated 2016 but those data cant be found, if its in C: then its very little hope to recover that. the DSO was sold as working but when i received it, it did boot slowly to xstream SW splash screen and then halted there, i shut the power off and thats the first and last time it entered the OS. anyone have clue how much cost to get new HDD/OS install for this scope from official LeCroy service? i think i want to make partial refund request, but it should be reasonable, so i ask advice from you people.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 22, 2019, 12:27:23 pm
I think that it is not rational to pay LeCroy for a new HDD with an installed X-Stream, while it is freely available. But in case of damage to the disk, you will have to perform a calibration procedure at a service center that can do it. I can send you the files from the calibration folder of my oscilloscopes, but this is an individual setting and is unlikely to be useful for your oscilloscope unit.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 22, 2019, 01:14:09 pm
I think that it is not rational to pay LeCroy for a new HDD with an installed X-Stream, while it is freely available. But in case of damage to the disk, you will have to perform a calibration procedure at a service center that can do it. I can send you the files from the calibration folder of my oscilloscopes, but this is an individual setting and is unlikely to be useful for your oscilloscope unit.
yes you are right i forgot that we can rebuild the system, but the calibration data. so it will come down to the cost of calibration process. please post your calibration data for DDA3000 anyway here or in my PM, i'm still interested, if you have say 3 unit 3000 with different calibration data, if its not too difficult, i will be interested in all of them too. since i'll consider this DDA3000 unit as broken or faulty or calibration data missing, i think i want to play with different calibration data to see how signal will show up. i have calibration data for 5005 and 6000, but i'm afraid if some data are specific to WaveMaster unit that is not available in WavePro. i'm in the process rebuilding this unit including i'll open up the psu to see whats inside, since this unit is much dusty than my previous WM units.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: pquadrat on April 22, 2019, 02:03:29 pm
I think the cal data is stored in flash also. There is a thread in this forum. And I am sure when I tested Win7 with my Wavemaster, it retrieved the cal data from there. But the volume "D:" with name USERDATA has to be there before You start the software the first time.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 22, 2019, 03:56:18 pm
i'm not sure the cal data stored in flash is originally from factory (2003) or the latest calibrated value (2016), if its from factory 2003, then i already recovered version 2008. and one thing is, the dda3000 was working without cal data in USERDATA, so i guess the SW loaded the cal data from C: (now corrupted) iirc there's discussion for flash recovered cal data, it will be stored in C, inside the installed xstream directory iirc.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 22, 2019, 07:46:01 pm
Here are copies of the Calibration folder from multiple oscilloscopes. 1 oscilloscope WP7300A, the rest - WP7200/7200A. I have no calibrations for DDA3000, it arrived without a hard disk.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RG1uCdbd8-i1jWuGvACRCZU--692ck3l/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 22, 2019, 11:08:45 pm
Here are copies of the Calibration folder from multiple oscilloscopes. 1 oscilloscope WP7300A, the rest - WP7200/7200A. I have no calibrations for DDA3000, it arrived without a hard disk.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RG1uCdbd8-i1jWuGvACRCZU--692ck3l/view?usp=sharing
super thank you Converter! i hope this will help me in analyzing the effect of the displayed signal with different calibration parameter. can you tell more about your DDA3000 experience? are you using xtream flash recovered calibration data? or using data from different scope? we can say that my DDA3000 is also without hard disk (unrecoverable original data) mostly in D are some waveforms screenshots that are very close to useless.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 22, 2019, 11:33:18 pm
I didn't spend too much time on my DDA3000. Just deployed the disk image from WP7300, and it seems I have not yet seen the error messages.
For quite a long time ago, I noticed that the calibration data of the input amplifiers EEPROMs automatically overwrites the some files in the Calibration folder in the event that their ID does not match.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on April 22, 2019, 11:47:44 pm
The calibration folder has the hidden attribute set so be sure you set "view hidden folders" in Windows or use the /a switch with dir in DOS.  If you have a D: drive with the proper volume label then it will be used for cal file storage.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 23, 2019, 12:24:03 am
be sure you set "view hidden folders" in Windows
already done since i touched a keyboard (anyone who have not set this mode should not poke this thread with 10 feet barge pole) not just to see calibration data, but to see if any virus misbehavior that antivirus cant detect. the DDA3000 HDD was initially unreadable both C and D, i have to use WinXP install disk to enter DOS mode in the DSO and use CHKDSK /p to recover the volumes. only D become readable again, C is still unreadable (Windows will ask to format this volume which i wont do) i guess too much bad or corrupted sectors on the FAT itself. just if low level sector by sector disk clone still exist... :(
ps: aha i found it! https://hddguru.com/software/HDD-Raw-Copy-Tool/ i hope it will works, need a good sleep first...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 29, 2019, 05:23:08 pm
if anyone can givew some idea here... AFE issue on DDA3000... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/gaining-access-to-the-acquisition-board-on-a-lecroy-wavepro-7200/msg2376651/#msg2376651 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/gaining-access-to-the-acquisition-board-on-a-lecroy-wavepro-7200/msg2376651/#msg2376651)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 29, 2019, 06:15:43 pm
I do not know what I could advise in this case. This is just like a ball array chip dump, if the sensitivity to the signal is preserved. Try to do the heating, or rebowling. In addition, I would try to send messages to all LeCroy sellers who potentially traded parts on eBay - maybe they have other parts left.

Can someone say, the functionality of this part, that in the photo of the Mechatrommer's input amplifier (highlighted in red)? What are their characteristics?
In the second photo, a similar item from my oscilloscope.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on April 29, 2019, 06:23:23 pm
Looks like a small piece of semirigid coax, from the RL silkscreen labeling, it could be an inline relay that wasn't needed for the model or in final production that was just bridged with the coax.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 29, 2019, 06:36:06 pm
An interesting opinion. I was just worried that this was some kind of special piezo filter, or delay line.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference between the input amplifier for the Lecroy 7200 models is from the 7300. Does this differ only in the software setting of the digital filter (DSP), or are there also differences in hardware?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on April 29, 2019, 07:47:16 pm
An interesting opinion. I was just worried that this was some kind of special piezo filter, or delay line.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference between the input amplifier for the Lecroy 7200 models is from the 7300. Does this differ only in the software setting of the digital filter (DSP), or are there also differences in hardware?

Hardware.  You don't overmake the bandwidth by 50% for software limitations, especially at the time of release, in an entirely modular architecture.  I can't find my images of a 7300A frontend, but the heatsink for the main amp comes out through the frontend cage, and I am pretty sure the physical layout is different as well.


I would be very, very surprised if you could take a WP7200's frontend and somehow software unlock it to 3GHz of bandwidth.  You can definitely get amplification to 3GHz and beyond, you can see some pretty quick signals on, but I don't think you can get nominal amplification even when characterized and corrected for (and you'd need to calibrate it) to 3GHz.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 29, 2019, 09:17:18 pm
Boards amplifier-attenuator are of the same exterior design for WP7300 and WP7200.
I do not even see the difference when adding the index "A":
(https://d.radikal.ru/d43/1904/69/1343a0b8ea09t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d43/1904/69/1343a0b8ea09.jpg)

(https://c.radikal.ru/c05/1904/6e/efae9ae8e6bft.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c05/1904/6e/efae9ae8e6bf.jpg)

But changing the software key "MBW" to "HBW" for WP7200 does not change it in WP7300, if you check the bandwidth.

This changes the bandwidth, but to a very small extent.
In this picture you can see the bandwidth change in WP7300A depending on the enabled options: "LBW"(blue), "MBW"(yellow) and "HBW"(green), denotes WP7100, WP7200 and WP7300 respectively:
(https://b.radikal.ru/b41/1904/e5/c722ca499515t.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b41/1904/e5/c722ca499515.jpg)

Same for WP7200:
(https://c.radikal.ru/c17/1904/51/8550f0a82198t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c17/1904/51/8550f0a82198.jpg)

Here is the graphical overlay of the WP7300 and WP7200 frequency response while the HBW option is enabled in both:
(https://c.radikal.ru/c12/1904/2b/65b69d3a083bt.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c12/1904/2b/65b69d3a083b.jpg)

Similarly, with the DSP turned off:
(https://b.radikal.ru/b24/1904/63/648d0d42f85bt.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b24/1904/63/648d0d42f85b.jpg)

I took these screenshots 2 years ago.
As you can see, there is something else besides software bandwidth settings.
However, I have not yet verified the effect of the calibration data that is stored in the EEPROM chip in each of these amplifier boards (which are duplicated in the Calibration folder). I also see several trimmers on this board that can be explored.




Addition.

See what is contained in the EEPROM 24LC64 (Soic8) of the WP7300A entry boards (in one of the channels):
(https://a.radikal.ru/a23/1904/5d/f3747b8bfde4t.jpg) (https://a.radikal.ru/a23/1904/5d/f3747b8bfde4.jpg)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 30, 2019, 05:10:49 am
Can someone say, the functionality of this part, that in the photo of the Mechatrommer's input amplifier (highlighted in red)? What are their characteristics?
In the second photo, a similar item from my oscilloscope.
some channels in my dda300 (ch1 and 2) using similar to your microstrip on subsrate add-on thing. channel 3 and 4 iirc using the coax cable type. so i guess no difference between them since they are mixed in one unit. even i think they are similar since same board number 901109-00. maybe some tuning in trimpot to increase the BW hack?

or maybe someone have modified this unit? i'm not sure, top metal cover have differing burnt color mark, and channel 3 (the broken one) is different T-shaped EMI metal enclosure, the rest are L-shaped. as shown on the other thread Dajmasta, he has all channels with L-shaped (i mean all consistent) EMI enclosure.

attached is the ch1 and ch2 clearly seen opened, 2nd photo is one of them, maybe you can compare closely if they are the same. btw, i wonder whats IC under the heatsink getting input from AFE and spits out several differential signals into the transmission/distribution board, ADC or DSP or FPGA or what?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 30, 2019, 06:08:35 am
But changing the software key "MBW" to "VHBW" for WP7200 does not change it in WP7300, if you check the bandwidth.
"LBW"(blue), "MBW"(yellow) and "VHBW"(green), denotes WP7100, WP7200 and WP7300 respectively:
have you tried "HBW" and "HBWA" option? HBWA will change WM8500 to DDA5005, or without it, DDA5005 will turn into WM8500. "VHBW" will turn DDA5005 into DDA6000. but i will not responsible if you brick your scope, do at own risk.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 30, 2019, 01:29:24 pm
have you tried "HBW" and "HBWA" option? HBWA will change WM8500 to DDA5005, or without it, DDA5005 will turn into WM8500. "VHBW" will turn DDA5005 into DDA6000. but i will not responsible if you brick your scope, do at own risk.
Quote
btw, i wonder whats IC under the heatsink getting input from AFE and spits out several differential signals into the transmission/distribution board, ADC or DSP or FPGA or what?

Yes, I have long tried all the available options BW. My conclusion, as I wrote already: higher-frequency software options can not significantly improve the bandwidth of the oscilloscope, and only make an inscription on the screen.
I think the bandwidth depends on the calibration coefficients DSP.
Yes, I think that this chip under the heatsink is a DSP processor.
If I have time for this, I will try to replace the firmware in EEPROM 7200 with the one used in 7300 to evaluate how it will affect BW.

By the way, you didn’t see by chance what designation of this chip is under heatsink your DDA3000? In my WaveRunner 204Xi (2GHz) - is H390ACA5. The corner of the silicon crystal was damaged there and I started thinking about replacing, but surprisingly, it still works.
As you can see in WM8500 (DDA5005), this chip HFE640C is no different from WM8600 (SDA6000).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 30, 2019, 04:28:29 pm
By the way, you didn’t see by chance what designation of this chip is under heatsink your DDA3000? In my WaveRunner 204Xi (2GHz) - is H390ACA5. The corner of the silicon crystal was damaged there and I started thinking about replacing, but surprisingly, it still works.
As you can see in WM8500 (DDA5005), this chip HFE640C is no different from WM8600 (SDA6000).
yeah. in an attempt to repair the broken AFE, i managed to pull the heatsink away the "hard" way didnt know how the clipping mechanism, now i know ;D the label is D130AAA5, more like batch number than IC number, i dont think that number will be much helpfull to anything anyway i guess thats an unobtanium part. to clean any dust that can possibly cause the fault under the heat sink. but cleaning the IC doesnt fix anything. and since the fault got worst very nasty voltage offset even on largest V/div scale, i believe there is  dying component on there i just dont have the time to check everything i have other stuffs to do, i put the broken module to AUX IN, so all my 4 channels for now are working properly, except AUX IN :( so i'm out of 1 good AFE module if anyone got extra to sell i will be interested or... to exchange with say... original WP/WM front bezel? ::)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 30, 2019, 05:19:58 pm
Do you have a photo of this D130AAA5? I am primarily interested in the issue of opportunities for replacement in WaveRunner204.

Quote
and since the fault got worst very nasty voltage offset even on largest V/div scale, i believe there is  dying component
In these devices, as a rule, bad contacts in connections is the cause of the fault. Simply revise all connections, including the ADC module.

Quote
i put the broken module to AUX IN, so all my 4 channels for now are working properly, except AUX IN
I did it before. But this is a bad decision, because the trigger input module has a terrible non-linearity — overcompensation, you can see it when you connect fast front test generator of the picosecond range. Perhaps this can be corrected by replacing the EEPROM chip firmware. There is one file in the Calibration folder, which is responsible for this, but immediately after the reboot, it is replaced with data from the EEPROM chip, which again leads to overcompensation. If you set only reading in this file, then with compensation everything will be fine, but error messages will follow in the log.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 30, 2019, 05:59:16 pm
Do you have a photo of this D130AAA5? I am primarily interested in the issue of opportunities for replacement in WaveRunner204.
see attached. thanks for your suggestion on the repair..
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 30, 2019, 06:13:57 pm
see attached. thanks for your suggestion on the repair..
Thanks for the photo. As I expected, it uses the same chip as in my WaveRunner 204Xi. And yes, this is the batch number, and the true designation of this chip is HFE 653.

By the way, my WaveRunner 204Xi has a display of 1024x768 and works in Windows 7. If anyone is interested, I can give advice on modernization.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 02, 2019, 06:36:06 pm
Overwriting the EEPROM in the input module does not significantly affect the bandwidth of the oscilloscope. But I found elements in the circuit, which change WP7200 to WP7300. Each WP7200 or WP7100 can be changed to WP7300. It turned out to be easier than I thought.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dietert1 on May 04, 2019, 05:35:50 am
If you are willing to help a little, how much time would somebody else need to implement your WR204Xi upgrade to W7?
I already bought a SSD for our WR64Xi and maybe i can try the W7 upgrade at the same time. This would probably be another thread. I could also contribute a description of the maintainance i did last year on our WR 64Xi.

Regards, Dieter
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on May 04, 2019, 11:07:57 am
I think that for this purpose it is more correct to make a separate topic. I have a few more new ideas for upgrading the WR - xxx Xi. And even more - I would try to upgrade 64Xi to 204Xi (similarly, as I decided it with WavePro). Since I have 204Xi, for this I still need 64Xi to compare the design of its input module (attenuator/amplifiers).
______________________________________________

Excuse me. I now saw that you are opposed to "crazy things like motherboard upgrades, option hacks and the like", so this will not be interesting for you, because I plan to replace the motherboard, because installing Win 7 is hardly justified on a platform with Pentium M. And the bandwidth extension, Of course, this also includes the hack options.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sergeyklenov on August 31, 2019, 07:18:32 am
Will post my experience with 7300

I get one from Japan Yahoo auction
[attach=1]

Get intel dq77cp motherboard with last version that support pci, get i7 3.5GHz processor and 4gb memory, because of x86 cant use more.
[attach=2]

Slim cooler
[attach=3]

Draw and make frames for new display, back motherboard and floppy replace to usb3.0, Gerber files included, but maybe need some corrections ;)
[attach=17]
[attach=18]
[attach=4]

Back motherboard frame installed
[attach=5]

iPad retina display with frame adaptor. Display get from ali example link:
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32415898372.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f065118C8pk6T&algo_pvid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35&algo_expid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35-6&btsid=90077497-0744-4b4c-903f-f9fbd182eae7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_52 (https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32415898372.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f065118C8pk6T&algo_pvid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35&algo_expid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35-6&btsid=90077497-0744-4b4c-903f-f9fbd182eae7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_52)
[attach=6]
[attach=7]

Capacitive touch screen ordered on eBay with usb interface
link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)
[attach=8]

Display assembled. For displayport i use AbuzeMark minidisplayport adaptor board ordered on japan website.
link: http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=47&zenid=3lpf44jedg59mr38l9bri4m647 (http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=47&zenid=3lpf44jedg59mr38l9bri4m647)
[attach=9]

Using ATI video card with displayport. Nvidia no, because big current and power supply shutting down from time to time.
Adapt connector to internal use.
[attach=10]
[attach=11]
[attach=12]

So, all installed now, add new ssd 2.5" with Windows 7 x86 SP1, install last software v8.5.1.1, drivers for touchscreen, calibrate it and replace driver for work correct with hyperthreading cpu.
[attach=13]
[attach=14]

And add software options... ;)
[attach=15]

Finished.
[attach=16]
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on August 31, 2019, 08:41:20 am
Awesome job sergey!

I'm in the middle of modernising DDA-3000 (essentially WP7300).

I'm mostly using some spare parts I had from WaveRunner 6100A modernisation attempts (Asrock IMB-181-L motherboard with LVDS, PCIe to PCI adapter). Instead of Retina I bought the LCD recommended by Converter (NEC XGA 10.4") as I wanted to avoid doing mechanical work and drilling (equals to butchering in my case) stuff.  I've already have a lot of work to do with 3D printing, gluing, sanding and painting the front panel bezel (the scope came without any).

Also I have some bug with LVDS, the motherboard can output 4 lanes, the panel has 3 so I only use the first 3 lanes and configure BIOS to 1024x768 @ 18 bit mode, but the image is stretched in the horizontal direction. Need to double check my DIY cable and do some probing to see if I have correct H/V sync signals on the 3rd lane.

Do you have the link to the capacitive touchscreen? If one day I decide to switch to the Retina display I'd like that instead of 4 wire resistive.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sergeyklenov on August 31, 2019, 08:55:31 am
Awesome job sergey!
Thank you!

I'm in the middle of modernising DDA-3000 (essentially WP7300).

I'm mostly using some spare parts I had from WaveRunner 6100A ... PCIe to PCI adapter).

Please be careful using PCIe->PCI chips, because you can have problems with lecroy card drivers install. It need native PCI.
I tried many chips with no luck.

Do you have the link to the capacitive touchscreen? If one day I decide to switch to the Retina display I'd like that instead of 4 wire resistive.

I get one for me by this link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on August 31, 2019, 10:09:23 am
Please be careful using PCIe->PCI chips, because you can have problems with lecroy card drivers install. It need native PCI.
I tried many chips with no luck.

I had this issue with WaveRunner 6100A, it worked but wasn't stable, X-Stream was throwing erros once in a while.

Here with DDA3000 it seems to work well and I wasn't afraid to try it because many motherboards mentioned in this thread (e.g. Asus B85M-E) implement PCI with a converter IC, just integrated on the motherboard. IMB-181-L is ITX with just once PCIe slot, so I have to use external adapter. On the positive side it is industrial motherboard and has native LVDS support (including backlight control etc), which is nice (once I get it to work).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on August 31, 2019, 03:18:01 pm
Thank you Sergey for your contribution. It was interesting.
But I see in your photo that you are using only half resolution of the Retina matrix.
With full resolution, the characters become too difficult to read (without a microscope  :D) and I'm not sure that using the fine-tuning Windows can solve this problem. In any case, I have not tried yet.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1139238/#msg1139238 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1139238/#msg1139238)

For a long time on eBay, the amazing offer AIMB-582QG2 for $49 was valid:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591806763 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591806763)
I bought 2 pcs. It comes in new condition and is a complete set. The s1155 motherboard contains PCI, lvds, and DP. Perhaps the seller still has it (if you write to him).
Its official price $263:
https://buyemt.advantech.com/Boards-Cards/Industrial-Motherboards-Micro-ATX-Motherboards/model-AIMB-582QG2-00A1E.htm (https://buyemt.advantech.com/Boards-Cards/Industrial-Motherboards-Micro-ATX-Motherboards/model-AIMB-582QG2-00A1E.htm)

The processor I use this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E3-1275V2-SR0PA-3-5-3-9-GHz-Quad-Core-CPU-Processor-8MB-LGA-1155/173936733803 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E3-1275V2-SR0PA-3-5-3-9-GHz-Quad-Core-CPU-Processor-8MB-LGA-1155/173936733803)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on August 31, 2019, 08:50:23 pm
I get one for me by this link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)
this is the kind of touch controller that i used on my Tek TLA714 LA, now its lack one USB port on the side, but i think its ok since i have one port left and i guess i will seldomly use it, only for 1 pendrive to transfer data.

For a long time on eBay, the amazing offer AIMB-582QG2 for $49 was valid:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591806763 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591806763)
damned i missed that, someone here must have grabbed that already.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Ivan_Vetrov on September 25, 2019, 02:37:50 am
Hello! Tell me how to enter the service menu 7K ? Asks for a code.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on September 25, 2019, 03:02:59 am
Hello! Tell me how to enter the service menu 7K ? Asks for a code.
9472
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 25, 2019, 11:56:50 pm
As some may know I'm working on getting a Wavepro 7200A back to work. I have gotten quite far but I have one (big) remaining problem: nothing shows on the TFT screen. I have backlight but the TFT screen shows typical behaviour when there is no signal. I have done a fresh install; is there something missing to enable the internal display output?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2019, 12:18:14 am
have you tried whats on the external output? is your setup standard from factory? (unlike some people here who changed motherboard)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 12:25:01 am
have you tried whats on the external output? is your setup standard from factory? (unlike some people here who changed motherboard)
The external output works OK. Everything in the scope is standard.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2019, 12:51:50 am
maybe you can trace from the AGP card where it receive video signal from motherboard dvo, checking the BIOS setting maybe its disabled? or defaulted to using external monitor? i'm not sure i never investigate as nobody reported such problem afaik. just giving some suggestion. maybe switching tft monitor to see if its broken? but that require money buying additional monitor part. probing video signal with other DSO if signal coming in? just suggestions.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on September 26, 2019, 01:09:57 am
The external output works OK. Everything in the scope is standard.
Are you sure that your LCD matrix is working? Or the problem is in the signal cable - over time they sometimes lose connection.
If there are more complex hardware problems, then the idea looks better - to replace with a new motherboard with built-in lvds output (along with the XGA matrix).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 01:55:50 am
The external output works OK. Everything in the scope is standard.
Are you sure that your LCD matrix is working? Or the problem is in the signal cable - over time they sometimes lose connection.
If there are more complex hardware problems, then the idea looks better - to replace with a new motherboard with built-in lvds output (along with the XGA matrix).
I dug a little deeper. It seems the cable from the AGP slot is carrying parallel video data (which is then converted to DVI by the SIL164 chip and then back to parallel by the SIL151 or SIL1151 chip). However, I don't see any video data when I probe the signals. It is like the card in the AGP slot isn't detected as an intel 'ADD' card to enable the parallel video signals. OR it needs a special driver from Intel to enable this feature. What I'm wondering: does a working Wavepro show the Lecroy startup logo? It could be a contact problem as well; it seems my 7200A has contact issues in several places. I want to reseat some chips on the video related boards and try again.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2019, 02:25:13 am
What I'm wondering: does a working Wavepro show the Lecroy startup logo?
yes every WP will show the LeCroy logo, except mine which i got its MB replaced (showing Intel Logo, havent figured out how nor have time yet to reflash logo in BIOS EEPROM) if you can see it along with bios info afterward, then maybe its Windows OS driver issue, if not, then probably contact issue, faulty board or bios settings, my 2cnts.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on September 26, 2019, 02:46:12 am
As I already wrote, I just do not see any reason to revive what is naturally asking for an update (if you are not a restorer of unique exhibits)  :horse:
Of course, I'm talking only about the motherboard with AGP output.
If the LeCroy logo is important to you at the time of launch, you can add any logo (even NASA) to the BIOS yourself using utilities that are freely available.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 10:02:42 am
What I'm wondering: does a working Wavepro show the Lecroy startup logo?
yes every WP will show the LeCroy logo, except mine which i got its MB replaced (showing Intel Logo, havent figured out how nor have time yet to reflash logo in BIOS EEPROM) if you can see it along with bios info afterward, then maybe its Windows OS driver issue, if not, then probably contact issue, faulty board or bios settings, my 2cnts.
OK. So this means the BIOS should recognise the AGP ADD card (ADD seems to be an Intel proprietary AGP extension) and enable the LCD data. I also assume that there is always a picture on the internal TFT which is a scaled up / down version of what is on the external monitor?

As I already wrote, I just do not see any reason to revive what is naturally asking for an update (unless you are a restorer of originals)  :horse:
Of course, I'm talking only about the motherboard with AGP output.
I'd like to but I have to be really careful not to put another project on my plate right now. If I can't get the TFT to work then I likely leave it for now.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 11:50:14 am
Success! I have cleaned the AGP slot and now the internal display works as well.  The new fans are also on their way. I ordered Nidec Servo model D1225C12B6ZPA-64 120mm fans which where suggested on this page: http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/ (http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/)
Now let's add some memory.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2019, 12:28:00 pm
OK. So this means the BIOS should recognise the AGP ADD card (ADD seems to be an Intel proprietary AGP extension) and enable the LCD data.
i know nothing about such ADD or AGP standard or protocol, but some experience from the past and some common sense may help on narrowing down problems a little bit. and thanks to this thread for giving so much more knowledge regarding this. i never encountered a MB that can spit video internally until i got my WM and i knew nothing about DVI, hence i made the least intrusive upgrade which is to buy the last MB revision that support internal dvo to AGP, same style as original, except capable to fit faster intel processor in, double the ram capacity and a little bit faster FSB, the original MB is topped out cant do anything to upgrade, even the ram is full slot but only 1GB. unlike some more knowledgable people here who went to the extend of drilling and diying their own DVI cable. i knew no such thing until recently when i have to diy DVI to HDMI adapter, then i know a little bit what every pins are, but thats all, i cant say i know something about it when looking on the board/components/functional/standard level. coincidentally i am working on a used PC with a broken graphics card, cleaning PCIe pins didnt help, adding capacitors as per internet advice didnt help, replacing with older card it works, so in the end the conclusion is, i have to buy new graphics card for the workstation. the net hinted possible rohs solder crack under the GPU, maybe i will bake it in an oven later, but i'm replacing it with a new card anyway since its older and only marginally better than my 10yrs old but faithful radeon card. and i found a cheaper alternative, ranked about half the performance, but currrent price is one tenth or lesser than the best gfx card on earth, so its a go (still in shipment, finger crossed i hope its compatible). congratulation on your simple fix.

Now let's add some memory.
be careful, you are going to spend money on it further, TEA syndrom may kick in. as someone adviced, you need to think carefully the worthiness of upgrading a system that needs a total upgrade in the first place. if you can get the ram like a dollar or 2, it maybe worth it for a little boost. i spent approx $100-200 upgrading my WM8K just to get it quite on par (faster actually) with my main PC in term of single core speed, but since its an even older tech, its a power hog, so now i have a water cool system inside a LeCroy WM8K :palm: maybe i should have listened or follow the path of hardcorers here, but my limitation in knowledge prohibited that. cheers.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 12:59:14 pm
Yeah. I'm about done with it.  SSD, more memory, new fans, LED backlight and some cleaning.

I absolutely admire  :clap: what converter has done with the retina screen but it also is quite a bit of work. I don't intend to use the 7200A as a daily driver scope but only for special cases where I need the high bandwidth.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on September 26, 2019, 01:25:32 pm
Yeah. I'm about done with it.  SSD, more memory, new fans, LED backlight and some cleaning.

I absolutely admire  :clap: what converter has done with the retina screen but it also is quite a bit of work. I don't intend to use the 7200A as a daily driver scope but only for special cases where I need the high bandwidth.

Congrats on the repair, are you going to mod it to 7300A? What LeCroy probes are you planning to use?

Just bear in mind that LeCroy does most of the math/analysis on the PC - the scope board is just fast sampler, memory and trigger. AFAIR the rest is done on the PC side - hence why high single thread performance and large caches can improve things a lot. With old PC parts being often cheap, sometimes even very proper motherboards like Advantest (with both PCI and LVDS for XGA display), for me it is no-brainer (also on my WaveRunner the old original mobo was in a bad state, most caps vented, not to mention Celeron CPU there is a joke).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 01:28:05 pm
How to mod it to a 7300A? I have missed that.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on September 26, 2019, 01:40:04 pm
How to mod it to a 7300A? I have missed that.

You have to ask our LeCroy wizard :)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2383434/#msg2383434 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2383434/#msg2383434)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 02:46:51 pm
Yeah. I'm about done with it.  SSD, more memory, new fans, LED backlight and some cleaning.

I absolutely admire  :clap: what converter has done with the retina screen but it also is quite a bit of work. I don't intend to use the 7200A as a daily driver scope but only for special cases where I need the high bandwidth.
Congrats on the repair, are you going to mod it to 7300A? What LeCroy probes are you planning to use?
My own ofcourse  ;) I already have reasonable collection of RF probes and in many cases I use a direct cable connector. Also some of the measurements I deal with are looking at 1Hz (one Hertz) pulses at the picosecond level.
Quote
Just bear in mind that LeCroy does most of the math/analysis on the PC - the scope board is just fast sampler, memory and trigger. AFAIR the rest is done on the PC side - hence why high single thread performance and large caches can improve things a lot. With old PC parts being often cheap, sometimes even very proper motherboards like Advantest (with both PCI and LVDS for XGA display), for me it is no-brainer (also on my WaveRunner the old original mobo was in a bad state, most caps vented, not to mention Celeron CPU there is a joke).
Mine (made in 2006) has a 2.8 GHz P4 so it isn't that bad. OTOH currently it has a single DDR266 memory module. I've ordered 2 1GB DDR400 modules so both memory channels can be used.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2019, 03:01:52 pm
I've ordered 2 1GB DDR400 modules so both memory channels can be used.
are you sure DDR400 is supported by your MoBo? older Mobo such as mine only maxed out to 533MHz FSB and hence DDR266. i think DDR400 will need 800MHz FSB, no? what Mobo model is yours?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 03:17:25 pm
I've ordered 2 1GB DDR400 modules so both memory channels can be used.
are you sure DDR400 is supported by your MoBo? older Mobo such as mine only maxed out to 533MHz FSB and hence DDR266. i think DDR400 will need 800MHz FSB, no? what Mobo model is yours?
There is an Intel D865GLC motherboard in my 7200A which supports up to 800MHz FSB. I checked the memory specifications in the manual from the motherboard. Oddly enough I only have one 256MB module which fits in this motherboard despite having stacks of memory modules.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on September 26, 2019, 03:33:22 pm
I've ordered 2 1GB DDR400 modules so both memory channels can be used.
are you sure DDR400 is supported by your MoBo? older Mobo such as mine only maxed out to 533MHz FSB and hence DDR266. i think DDR400 will need 800MHz FSB, no? what Mobo model is yours?

https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000006686/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html (https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000006686/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on September 26, 2019, 03:36:16 pm
I've ordered 2 1GB DDR400 modules so both memory channels can be used.
are you sure DDR400 is supported by your MoBo? older Mobo such as mine only maxed out to 533MHz FSB and hence DDR266. i think DDR400 will need 800MHz FSB, no? what Mobo model is yours?
There is an Intel D865GLC motherboard in my 7200A which supports up to 800MHz FSB. I checked the memory specifications in the manual from the motherboard. Oddly enough I only have one 256MB module which fits in this motherboard despite having stacks of memory modules.

great job, nctnico  :-+
I have a WP 7300A with P4 2.8GHz and 1G RAM but I am planning to  follow your steps to upgrade the HDD to SSD and also the CPU and RAM
This is a really wonderful scope and I have like a  zillion options on it...and XL memory  :)  Buying it was an accident and turned out to be a real bargain
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 04:17:02 am
I finally got the parts and upgraded my WP 7300A with 120GB SSD SATA, 4GB PC3200 Micron, P4 SL7PN  3.2GHz 1MB L2 cache  :) :)

however, I have got a problem  :-// |O
the scope boots fine and works ok most of the time but in some settings suddenly it behaves strange and if I change the setting like time/div
it becomes normal again. It very much looks like a driver issue.

I have read the thread and I believe my problem is that when I first put the cpu in, I didn't disable HyperThreading in the BIOS before booting to winXP and it probably changed to SMP kernel and I think that's the root of  my problem as Lecroy drivers dont work properly with HyperThreading
Although i have disabled HyperThreading in BIOS now, but I think the winxp kernel has changed and must be reversed back to uniprocessor again

my question is: how can I know if the winxp kernel is changed? how to revert back to the previous kernel which was only for uniprocessor and no hyperthreading?

thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 20, 2019, 07:39:12 am
I have read the thread and I believe my problem is that...
are you sure?

download the driver patch/fix from ingowien...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2222433/#msg2222433 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2222433/#msg2222433)

and from dxl (there 3 driver variant iirc you can check at the vicinity of the post)...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144239/#msg1144239 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144239/#msg1144239)

you can then forget about which kernel windows is using and then enable hyperthreading/multicore processor to your heart content (even upgrade to i9 core i think)... these are gems in this thread, go check those out.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 09:32:37 am
I finally got the parts and upgraded my WP 7300A with 120GB SSD SATA, 4GB PC3200 Micron, P4 SL7PN  3.2GHz 1MB L2 cache  :) :)

however, I have got a problem  :-// |O
the scope boots fine and works ok most of the time but in some settings suddenly it behaves strange and if I change the setting like time/div
it becomes normal again. It very much looks like a driver issue.

I have read the thread and I believe my problem is that when I first put the cpu in, I didn't disable HyperThreading in the BIOS before booting to winXP and it probably changed to SMP kernel and I think that's the root of  my problem as Lecroy drivers dont work properly with HyperThreading
Although i have disabled HyperThreading in BIOS now, but I think the winxp kernel has changed and must be reversed back to uniprocessor again

my question is: how can I know if the winxp kernel is changed? how to revert back to the previous kernel which was only for uniprocessor and no hyperthreading?

thanks
I had the same problem. You can do that from the control panel -> system -> device manager -> computer. Change to 'standard PC with ACPI' or something like that. Currently the setting is probably something with multi processor.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 10:47:44 am
I have read the thread and I believe my problem is that...
are you sure?

download the driver patch/fix from ingowien...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2222433/#msg2222433 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2222433/#msg2222433)

and from dxl (there 3 driver variant iirc you can check at the vicinity of the post)...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144239/#msg1144239 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg1144239/#msg1144239)

you can then forget about which kernel windows is using and then enable hyperthreading/multicore processor to your heart content (even upgrade to i9 core i think)... these are germs in this thread, go check those out.

thank you, Mechatrommer  :D
These look good. The front panel lights going crazy is actually what I was referring to .

But which one of the two solutions do  you recommend? I am on WinXP and I like it and dont wanna change to Win7 anyways.

I think if anything goes wrong, I can always make another copy of my original hard drive and reset everything to original. I still have the .img file on my laptop  :) I just wanted a quicker solution. I will try this in a couple of hours
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 20, 2019, 12:00:08 pm
if you have to choose one, its ingowien driver, it worked for me the first time where dxl's driver didnt do anything. but i remember dxl's driver also give some benefit but i cant recall what, but only once you installed the ingowien driver. otoh also if you already do your research, the most important files are in the d:\calibration iirc, you must backup those files at all cost. nevermind the lecroy installation in C you can rebuild that later with installer file available in lecroy site and various places for older version, but if you can save all by all mean do it, it should be good to keep the original settings/files/config of the dso when we get them. it wont hurt to get another $40 SSD or TB HDD specifically for this backup purpose considering the value of the item (dso) we are dealing with, storage is cheap nowadays. ymmv.

I like it and dont wanna change to Win7 anyways.
i/we tried Win7, its a no go since Win7 will fail to allocate resources for the Lecroy's hardware. both ingowien and dxl driver cant help on this, at least for me, so we stick with WinXP (multicore version :P). ymmv.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 12:13:32 pm
if you have to choose one, its ingowien driver, it worked for me the first time where dxl's driver didnt do anything. but i remember dxl's driver also give some benefit but i cant recall what, but only once you installed the ingowien driver. otoh also if you already do your research, the most important files are in the d:\calibration iirc, you must backup those files at all cost. nevermind the lecroy installation in C you can rebuild that later with installer file available in lecroy site and various places for older version, but if you can save all by all mean do it, it should be good to keep the original settings/files/config of the dso when we get them. it wont hurt to get another $40 SSD or TB HDD specifically for this backup purpose considering the value of the item (dso) we are dealing with, storage is cheap nowadays. ymmv.

I like it and dont wanna change to Win7 anyways.
i/we tried Win7, its a no go since Win7 will fail to allocate resources for the Lecroy's hardware. both ingowien and dxl driver cant help on this, at least for me, so we stick with WinXP (multicore version :P). ymmv.

thanks. just out of curiosity, does having dual core (physically) or hyperthreading give any noticable performance boost in the xstream software and scope functions/math/zoom/fft/ect...? I think I saw somewhere that it doesn't help much anyways. Have you noticed any difference with and without having hyperthreading?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 12:29:03 pm
...with installer file available in lecroy site and various places for older version, but if you can save all by all mean do it, it should be good to keep the original settings/files/config of the dso when we get them. it wont hurt to get another $40 SSD or TB HDD specifically for this backup purpose considering the value of the item (dso) we are dealing with, storage is cheap nowadays. ymmv.

i/we tried Win7, its a no go since Win7 will fail to allocate resources for the Lecroy's hardware. both ingowien and dxl driver cant help on this, at least for me, so we stick with WinXP (multicore version :P). ymmv.

I already have a raw .img of my original HDD plus the original HDD (which was actually in a pretty good shape) so I have a back up of all files.

I think those who changed to win7, all changed their motherboard first. But I am not thinking that far. I am also happy with the current resolution of the display, so I wont be tinkering with that either.

However, i have a big issue with the LCD which I cannot figure out how to fix. It looks like there are many bright (whiter than background) horizontal lines unevenly distributed on the screen. They dont obscure the display and there are no missing pixels and everything is visible but these white/dark/white/dark/... lines are annoying. They are only in the background and they are there as soon as I turn the scope on before even the windows starts. even visible on the Lecroy Logo screen. It seems like bad contact in connectors but I have reseated and cleaned all of them

any suggestion is appreciated
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 20, 2019, 12:30:26 pm
i havent test, but members in this thread claimed dual core will improve performance (FFT/graphics/3D processing in another core, GUI/Windows in another) but having more than that is not much point. but if you can get 4 core cpu + supporting motherboard at cheap, why not? its better to have later more modern HW anyway.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 12:34:35 pm
i havent test, but members in this thread claimed dual core will improve performance (FFT/graphics/3D processing in another core, GUI/Windows in another) but having more than that is not much point. but if you can get 4 core cpu + supporting motherboard at cheap, why not? its better to have later more modern HW anyway.

yes, logically that makes sense, but I just read in the thread (cannot remember the post) that the xstream software and the lecroy drivers do not benefit much from multicore. clearly remember someone was disappointed to have put in a quad core with not much improvement...

for now my front panel light flickering with hyprethreading is fixed  :D :D
so the only issue I have with the scope is the degraded LCD which must have a fix but i don't know how....
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 12:46:22 pm
The lines are in the display itself. Your best option is to buy an identical display as a replacement. There are some companies which sell used displays.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 12:48:31 pm
The lines are in the display itself. Your best option is to buy an identical display as a replacement. There are some companies which sell used displays.

have you experienced this before?
do you know the model number and brand of the display? I have not opened it up yet
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 20, 2019, 01:02:21 pm
However, i have a big issue with the LCD which I cannot figure out how to fix. It looks like there are many bright (whiter than background) horizontal lines unevenly distributed on the screen. They dont obscure the display and there are no missing pixels and everything is visible but these white/dark/white/dark/... lines are annoying. They are only in the background and they are there as soon as I turn the scope on before even the windows starts. even visible on the Lecroy Logo screen. It seems like bad contact in connectors but I have reseated and cleaned all of them

any suggestion is appreciated
its seems the same problem as my samsung pc monitor, i posted asking how to fix, the resolution is it needs german wizardry to fix the internal hardware, in the end i bought a new monitor. i think thats the hardware problem. if you already cleaned the connection and problem is still there, the part number is NEC NL8060BC26-17 10.4" 800x600 monitor, its still easily available in ebay. i bought one to replace my SDA6000 monitor which has vertical green line on the right end. this is the seller i bought from, other sellers sell at higher pricee...
https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/10-4inch-For-NEC-NL8060BC26-17-LCD-screen-display-panel-800-RGB-600-2-pcs-CCFL/202308356845?hash=item2f1a848aed:g:XhAAAOSw5jhbrKYU (https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/10-4inch-For-NEC-NL8060BC26-17-LCD-screen-display-panel-800-RGB-600-2-pcs-CCFL/202308356845?hash=item2f1a848aed:g:XhAAAOSw5jhbrKYU)

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 01:09:12 pm
However, i have a big issue with the LCD which I cannot figure out how to fix. It looks like there are many bright (whiter than background) horizontal lines unevenly distributed on the screen. They dont obscure the display and there are no missing pixels and everything is visible but these white/dark/white/dark/... lines are annoying. They are only in the background and they are there as soon as I turn the scope on before even the windows starts. even visible on the Lecroy Logo screen. It seems like bad contact in connectors but I have reseated and cleaned all of them

any suggestion is appreciated
its seems the same problem as my samsung pc monitor, i posted asking how to fix, the resolution is it needs german wizardry to fix the internal hardware, in the end i bought a new monitor. i think thats the hardware problem. if you already cleaned the connection and problem is still there, the part number is NEC NL8060BC26-17 10.4" 800x600 monitor, its still easily available in ebay. i bought one to replace my SDA6000 monitor which has vertical green line on the right end. this is the seller i bought from, other sellers sell at higher pricee...
https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/10-4inch-For-NEC-NL8060BC26-17-LCD-screen-display-panel-800-RGB-600-2-pcs-CCFL/202308356845?hash=item2f1a848aed:g:XhAAAOSw5jhbrKYU (https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/10-4inch-For-NEC-NL8060BC26-17-LCD-screen-display-panel-800-RGB-600-2-pcs-CCFL/202308356845?hash=item2f1a848aed:g:XhAAAOSw5jhbrKYU)

This is great info  :D
Did you replace the ccfl with LED back lighting?

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 20, 2019, 01:13:45 pm
This is great info  :D
its all here in this thread, i'm just repeating the info.. very little that i learnt myself. i replaced the whole monitor, i dont have time and knowledge to dismantle every pieces of the lcd. but it needs some poking around to remove the lcd and flex cables from the dso, good luck.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 01:16:57 pm
Replacing the LCD is a lot of work. You need to take out the USB ports / floppy drive to remove the panel with the buttons in order to reach the screws which hold the LCD in place. The cables are another problem and unscrewing the video adapter board makes life a little bit easier in order to reach the touch panel connector. Making stuff maintenance friendly isn't Lecroy's strongest point.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 01:22:33 pm
i am still wondering if replacing the lcd is the only solution to this issue....
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: longvn on October 20, 2019, 02:41:14 pm
i am still wondering if replacing the lcd is the only solution to this issue....
I have the same situation with SDA 3000A. Yellow vertical stripes on my screen. This is a panel error that is difficult to fix.
Can higher resolution display on Lecroy original hardware?
Thanks for the reply!
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 02:55:17 pm
this is the problem with my display. Its pretty clear in the screen shots
everything is visible and there are no vertical lines or dead lines or colored lines...and there are there even before windows kicks in
just horizontal gray lines which are transparent and dont obscure what is supposed to be seen on screen but annoying and look bad

any idea?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: longvn on October 20, 2019, 03:03:34 pm
Thanks to the members of this forum. You are wonderful people. Without you I cannot make my Lecroy SDA3000 work. I struggled with it all week but couldn't get it done. In my country no one has studied these things. Luck to join this forum. Language is a barrier to me.
Thank you everyone.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 03:11:58 pm
this is the problem with my display. Its pretty clear in the screen shots
everything is visible and there are no vertical lines or dead lines or colored lines...and there are there even before windows kicks in
just horizontal gray lines which are transparent and dont obscure what is supposed to be seen on screen but annoying and look bad

any idea?
You can try to take the display apart and reseat all the internal connectors. Generally that takes removing a few screws and bending some metal tabs away. It is not really complicated but you need a large flat surface to work on so you can lay parts of the display on the side.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: longvn on October 20, 2019, 03:18:00 pm
this is the problem with my display. Its pretty clear in the screen shots
everything is visible and there are no vertical lines or dead lines or colored lines...and there are there even before windows kicks in
just horizontal gray lines which are transparent and dont obscure what is supposed to be seen on screen but annoying and look bad

any idea?
As far as I know the reason is because the cable connected to the panel leaked glue. If you can open the panel with wires attached to the LCD panel and press it with your hand to see if it improves. Most likely it will be left.
I see you use P4 3.2 1M cache. I used to attach to SDA3000, however the CPU and mainboard temperatures are very high. I was really worried and using P4 3.0ghz 512k cache, everything seemed to be better. Do you have problems with P4 3.2ghz?
I checked when making calculated measurements, CPU operating from 80-90%, which solution is best with original hardware?
Thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 03:44:20 pm


As far as I know the reason is because the cable connected to the panel leaked glue. If you can open the panel with wires attached to the LCD panel and press it with your hand to see if it improves. Most likely it will be left.
I see you use P4 3.2 1M cache. I used to attach to SDA3000, however the CPU and mainboard temperatures are very high. I was really worried and using P4 3.0ghz 512k cache, everything seemed to be better. Do you have problems with P4 3.2ghz?
I checked when making calculated measurements, CPU operating from 80-90%, which solution is best with original hardware?
Thanks

yeah I need to take the LCD apart. I am a bit worried about messing up the touchscreen. It seems a separate glass on top of the actual TFT panel, am I right?


with regard to CPU, i have not measured temp under heavy load but once I did an FFT for a few minutes and then check (few seconds had passed) and temp was around 43-44 reported by hwinfo . At other times under normal windows usage I also get around 42C ...i need to check under heavier load. it also depends on which software you use to monitor. I used AIDA32 and it only reports 37C which I am sure its wrong

EDIT: but the upgrade from P4 2.8GHz 512K L2 (FSB 533MHz) to this CPU plus the 4 GB DDR400 and SSD drive, made a huge difference for me in terms of responsiveness and speed and boot time. really worth the $40-$50 that I spent
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 03:56:52 pm
AFAIK there are two 3.2GHz P4s. One with a TDP of 115W and one with 80W. The latter will run cooler.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 03:58:25 pm
AFAIK there are two 3.2GHz P4s. One with a TDP of 115W and one with 80W. The latter will run cooler.

mmm...i don't know which one I got...mine has SL7PN stepping...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: longvn on October 20, 2019, 04:06:11 pm


As far as I know the reason is because the cable connected to the panel leaked glue. If you can open the panel with wires attached to the LCD panel and press it with your hand to see if it improves. Most likely it will be left.
I see you use P4 3.2 1M cache. I used to attach to SDA3000, however the CPU and mainboard temperatures are very high. I was really worried and using P4 3.0ghz 512k cache, everything seemed to be better. Do you have problems with P4 3.2ghz?
I checked when making calculated measurements, CPU operating from 80-90%, which solution is best with original hardware?
Thanks

yeah I need to take the LCD apart. I am a bit worried about messing up the touchscreen. It seems a separate glass on top of the actual TFT panel, am I right?


with regard to CPU, i have not measured temp under heavy load but once I did an FFT for a few minutes and then check (few seconds had passed) and temp was around 43-44 reported by hwinfo . At other times under normal windows usage I also get around 42C ...i need to check under heavier load. it also depends on which software you use to monitor. I used AIDA32 and it only reports 37C which I am sure its wrong

EDIT: but the upgrade from P4 2.8GHz 512K L2 (FSB 533MHz) to this CPU plus the 4 GB DDR400 and SSD drive, made a huge difference for me in terms of responsiveness and speed and boot time. really worth the $40-$50 that I spent
I think the parameter you measured is definitely not accurate. Parameters I measured when stopping triger CPU to 0% but when the trigger start returned to the CPU load an average of 50%, the CPU temperature is about 55 0C AUX on main 70 0c. AC power consumption is higher when using 3ghz CPU about 40W. For a machine that is nearly 20 years old, I think it will quickly get serious errors for the power and can affect the motherboard.
I think you should be cautious with CPU 3.2ghz.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 04:08:41 pm
AFAIK there are two 3.2GHz P4s. One with a TDP of 115W and one with 80W. The latter will run cooler.

mmm...i don't know which one I got...mine has SL7PN stepping...
Intel says this is the 84W version:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 04:14:56 pm
AFAIK there are two 3.2GHz P4s. One with a TDP of 115W and one with 80W. The latter will run cooler.

mmm...i don't know which one I got...mine has SL7PN stepping...
Intel says this is the 84W version:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html)

no this is not what I have, that page does not say if it is SL7PN or not
however, according to this page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_microprocessors#Prescott_(90_nm)

mine is 103W unfortunately. But I cannot see a 84W version with Socket 478 and 1MB L2 at 3.2GHz except the one I got
I don't think the LGA775 socket would fit the intel motherboard
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 04:18:04 pm
actually those P4 540/540J models are even cheaper than what I bought and would have been the better option but I thought socket LGA775 will not fit this motherboard
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 04:28:02 pm
AFAIK there are two 3.2GHz P4s. One with a TDP of 115W and one with 80W. The latter will run cooler.

mmm...i don't know which one I got...mine has SL7PN stepping...
Intel says this is the 84W version:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html)

no this is not what I have, that page does not say if it is SL7PN or not
however, according to this page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_microprocessors#Prescott_(90_nm)

mine is 103W unfortunately. But I cannot see a 84W version with Socket 478 and 1MB L2 at 3.2GHz except the one I got
I don't think the LGA775 socket would fit the intel motherboard
Hmm, Google seems to direct to the right page on Intel website nevertheless. But I see that there is no mention of the chip stepping.
Still you have to be carefull with CPU's over 2.8GHz. The technical manual from the motherboard says that the voltage regulators will become very hot.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: longvn on October 20, 2019, 04:38:35 pm
AFAIK there are two 3.2GHz P4s. One with a TDP of 115W and one with 80W. The latter will run cooler.

mmm...i don't know which one I got...mine has SL7PN stepping...
Intel says this is the 84W version:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html)

no this is not what I have, that page does not say if it is SL7PN or not
however, according to this page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_microprocessors#Prescott_(90_nm)

mine is 103W unfortunately. But I cannot see a 84W version with Socket 478 and 1MB L2 at 3.2GHz except the one I got
I don't think the LGA775 socket would fit the intel motherboard
Hmm, Google seems to direct to the right page on Intel website nevertheless. But I see that there is no mention of the chip stepping.
Still you have to be carefull with CPU's over 2.8GHz. The technical manual from the motherboard says that the voltage regulators will become very hot.
Right. This is my concern. The source IC on the main is very hot operation, so if operating for long time leading to damage. Hot CPU still has a solution if it increases the cooling capacity of the fan ....
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 04:43:34 pm
AFAIK there are two 3.2GHz P4s. One with a TDP of 115W and one with 80W. The latter will run cooler.

mmm...i don't know which one I got...mine has SL7PN stepping...
Intel says this is the 84W version:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27466/intel-pentium-4-processor-540-540j-supporting-ht-technology-1m-cache-3-20-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html)

no this is not what I have, that page does not say if it is SL7PN or not
however, according to this page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_microprocessors#Prescott_(90_nm)

mine is 103W unfortunately. But I cannot see a 84W version with Socket 478 and 1MB L2 at 3.2GHz except the one I got
I don't think the LGA775 socket would fit the intel motherboard
Hmm, Google seems to direct to the right page on Intel website nevertheless. But I see that there is no mention of the chip stepping.
Still you have to be carefull with CPU's over 2.8GHz. The technical manual from the motherboard says that the voltage regulators will become very hot.

it is strange that the Intel website shows the P4 model 540 as both being LGA775 and PGA478 ?! But I cannot find any information on the socket 478 versions. model 540 and 540J can only be found with LGA775 socket.
Within socket 478 family, the only 3.2GHz that fits this board is the one that I got. But now you guys made me think....

but I saw a few people on this thread had reported changing their cpu to 3.2GHz and didn't report any problem ...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 04:50:05 pm
also on the Intel website this is the list of supported CPUs for this matherboard
they dont state the stepping codes but they have listed P4 up to 3.4GHz for this board
https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000006655/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html (https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000006655/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html)

I think what I got must be one of these listed above

EDIT: for example the extreme edition, first on the list, is 103W (see the wikipedia link that I posted earlier)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 20, 2019, 07:14:30 pm
yeah I need to take the LCD apart. I am a bit worried about messing up the touchscreen. It seems a separate glass on top of the actual TFT panel, am I right?
oo right the touchscreen. they are separate unit technically, you are right, but unfortunately they are glued together, and try to separate them is like destroying the touchscreen glass or the monitor. so no, they are not separate, practically speaking, you need to buy separate 10.4" 4 wire touch panel, and glue your own together to the spare monitor. once installed on the dso, need to calibrate the touch using the SW (updd3_8_34.zip) you can search in this thread.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 07:20:20 pm
You won't need to take the touchscreen off. The touch screen is glued to the metal outer bracket which you can remove from the TFT screen.  But you won't need to disassemble a TFT screen that far to get to the electronics anyway. Just lay it flat with the screen side down and remove the back cover.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on October 20, 2019, 07:23:17 pm
If you're going to upgrade the Pentium 4 without swapping the board, my recommendation would be a Northwood core based - these are a larger process node, have less cache, and top out at lower frequencies.... but intel screwed the pooch in moving to the Prescott architecture, so they're also slightly better performance per clock (even with less cache) and significantly more power efficient.  Also prevents any worries about power draw from the motherboard or the power supply LeCroy picked.


I've upgraded a couple of these scopes without swapping the motherboard and my usual is: 2.8GHz Northwood P4, 4GB RAM (XP/2000 can't use all of it anyways), and a PATA/IDE SSD DoM with an image of the original drive.  That's all flat upgrades from base configuration, but requires no driver changes, configuration options, or fan/heatsink replacement and the whole thing with a 32GB DoM can be done for less than $60.  Also going with a disk on module means you can get rid of the IDE cable, you don't have to worry about mounting holes (PATA SSDs are usually 2.5" format, so you need new holes if you want to mount it where the HDD is normally), and you make the whole unit slightly lighter and slightly less airflow obstructed.


I believe the Windows 2000 based machines have an earlier revision intel board that will still support up to like 3.06GHz CPUs but no more, whereas the windows XP machines come with the slightly newer motherboard with extended CPU support, including hyperthreading, but the same socket (and still no dual core).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 07:40:01 pm
You won't need to take the touchscreen off. The touch screen is glued to the metal outer bracket which you can remove from the TFT screen.  But you won't need to disassemble a TFT screen that far to get to the electronics anyway. Just lay it flat with the screen side down and remove the back cover.

looking from the side, it seemed to me this should be the case and you confirmed my thought

can I also replace the backlight without tampering with the touchscreen? (if it turns out that the LCD is ok I would like to replace the backlight)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 20, 2019, 07:41:17 pm
yeah I need to take the LCD apart. I am a bit worried about messing up the touchscreen. It seems a separate glass on top of the actual TFT panel, am I right?
oo right the touchscreen. they are separate unit technically, you are right, but unfortunately they are glued together, and try to separate them is like destroying the touchscreen glass or the monitor. so no, they are not separate, practically speaking, you need to buy separate 10.4" 4 wire touch panel, and glue your own together to the spare monitor. once installed on the dso, need to calibrate the touch using the SW (updd3_8_34.zip) you can search in this thread.
could you point me to the touch panel that you used?

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 20, 2019, 07:49:24 pm
You won't need to take the touchscreen off. The touch screen is glued to the metal outer bracket which you can remove from the TFT screen.  But you won't need to disassemble a TFT screen that far to get to the electronics anyway. Just lay it flat with the screen side down and remove the back cover.

looking from the side, it seemed to me this should be the case and you confirmed my thought

can I also replace the backlight without tampering with the touchscreen? (if it turns out that the LCD is ok I would like to replace the backlight)
Yes. The backlight tubes can be pulled out. There is a plastic latch keeping it in place. The CCFL tube holder is designed to be replaced. The touchscreen issue is easely resolved by exchanging the housing of the LCD screen with a replacement LCD screen if it turns out the problem isn't poor contact.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 20, 2019, 09:51:36 pm
yeah I need to take the LCD apart. I am a bit worried about messing up the touchscreen. It seems a separate glass on top of the actual TFT panel, am I right?
oo right the touchscreen. they are separate unit technically, you are right, but unfortunately they are glued together, and try to separate them is like destroying the touchscreen glass or the monitor. so no, they are not separate, practically speaking, you need to buy separate 10.4" 4 wire touch panel, and glue your own together to the spare monitor. once installed on the dso, need to calibrate the touch using the SW (updd3_8_34.zip) you can search in this thread.
could you point me to the touch panel that you used?
https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/10-4inch-4-wire-resistive-touch-screen-panel-size-228x175mm/261459880267?hash=item3ce039294b:g:Fj0AAOSw1NFaL37U (https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/10-4inch-4-wire-resistive-touch-screen-panel-size-228x175mm/261459880267?hash=item3ce039294b:g:Fj0AAOSw1NFaL37U) (err.. iirc, but its not quite the same as the original)... otoh you can change the backlight but the problem you described (dark+light+..) i highly believe is not a backlight problem, its the lcd infront of it. backlight is just a big white light, you change that, you still have the stripes, except brighter. changing backlight is another trick. ymmv.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5H4r9lG82M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5H4r9lG82M)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on October 21, 2019, 02:47:44 am
I usually buy HERE (https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=543748712165&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.28a32e8dzJ7DXz&_u=l2ukkg9m9500).
But you can neatly rearrange the original. Double sided tape is required. I use silicone 3M 1mm (https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32957035635.html).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 21, 2019, 03:08:18 am
I usually buy HERE (https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=543748712165&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.28a32e8dzJ7DXz&_u=l2ukkg9m9500).
But you can neatly rearrange the original. Double sided tape is required. I use silicone 3M 1mm (https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32957035635.html).

Isn't the original touchscreen Capacitive? These ones (on aliexpress) all say Resistive touchscreen.

Can these chinese aftermarkets be connected directly with the board on Lecroy in place of the old one and be calibrated by the software in the scope?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on October 21, 2019, 03:10:49 am
The originals are resistive.  They have that sparkly translucent appearance which sucks -- the screen underneath is quite bright and clear.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on October 21, 2019, 05:43:02 pm
I usually buy HERE (https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=543748712165&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.28a32e8dzJ7DXz&_u=l2ukkg9m9500).
But you can neatly rearrange the original. Double sided tape is required. I use silicone 3M 1mm (https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32957035635.html).

Isn't the original touchscreen Capacitive? These ones (on aliexpress) all say Resistive touchscreen.

Can these chinese aftermarkets be connected directly with the board on Lecroy in place of the old one and be calibrated by the software in the scope?
4-wire resistive sensors - this is a very simple thing. Sometimes I just have to swap 2 wires on the LeCroy board for the correct functioning of these sensors here. Other more advanced sensor controllers process signals in any wiring diagram. Capacitive sensors are very different in appearance, you should not have confused this with a capacitive sensor.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 21, 2019, 10:04:55 pm
A quick write-up of my Wavepro 7200A restoration and uphack. I bought this one from Ebay after low-balling the seller:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930875923_08d5d1e677_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxRwFM)
The description said the display wasn't working. Besides that it is clearly visible the bezel is completely ruined. When it arrived it was time to take it apart.

First let's see if there is some life in it. An external monitor showed the scope booted but no image on the internal display. For good measure I replaced the CCFL backlight of the display with LED backlight. For that I had to remove the video driver board to solder some wires to it because I needed to get 12V from somewhere.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930864698_e2cd76d3af_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxRtmf)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931404731_2934e3379e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxUeTa)

That also leads to the discovery of several design flaws in the hardware. Look at how the metal washers are over the traces:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930864978_2be8cf0565_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxRtr5)
And the top cover also serves to keep the acquisition board in place so whatever forces comes down onto the top cover is directly transferred onto the PC motherboard:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930863453_3cc564762d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxRsYM)
Really??  :palm: :palm:

The bezel was broken in several pieces. Some PVC glue and tape on the inside helped to put it back together:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930862608_5807ce59fc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxRsJd)

Unfortunately to bottom part is strained a lot and it was broken in several places. I had to glue in a brace to keep it together. After that it turned out there was also a crack in the corner which needed glueing as well. For these jobs I use masking tape to keep the parts together while the glue cures.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931402096_e352ed402e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxUe6J)

Back to some testing... the hard drive seemed to have a problem so I went for a reinstall of Windows XP and the LEcroy software on an SSD. The software is downloadable from LEcroy so no problems there. That worked OK but channel two had issues which caused the scope to halt and lots of relays clicking. Time to take the acquisition board out... Well... hello!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931404821_02940cd859_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxUeUH)

For good measure I swapped the input module from channel 2 with the auxilary channel. One of the nice things of these scopes is that they have 5 identical input modules so you always have a spare  >:D Getting the module wasn't easy because the standoff underneath the module unscrewed itself pushing the module up. As a last ditch attempt I tightened the screw further and after that the standoff stayed put. After swapping the input module I had 4 working channels. It is possible to use the auxilary channel as an input for channel 3 and that seemed to work fine. The issue with channel2 was likely contact related.

Now onto the display... The display system relies on an Intel proprietary AGP slot extension which outputs display data for use with a TFT screen. The video board in turn converts this to the right signals to drive the TFT screen. After some measuring it turned out the driver board wasn't getting any input signals from the AGP slot. After cleaning the AGP slot using a piece of card board to scrub the contacts the display works again.

Next stop: PC upgrades. I ordered two 1GB Kingston PC3200 memory modules from Ebay as NOS. I contemplated to buy a 3.2GHz processor as well instead of the existing 2.8GHz 533MHz FSB processor but decided to go through my old PCs first. I found a 2.8GHz P4 with an 800MHz FSB in an old Dell PC and decided to put that in and transplant the Dell cooling solution too because it is very quiet. I had to take the motherboard out for this job though. The CDROM drive no longer fits together with the cooler. Since the motherboard can also boot from a USB stick that isn't a really big problem.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931591842_c8fc62f3b9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxVcvd)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931591637_683da1d6bc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxVcrF)

Something else I noticed is that the fans are LOUD. Let's do something about that! This website put me on the trail of 'Gentle Typhoon' fans: http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/ (http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/)

These are obsolete but I managed to procure the ones mentioned (D1225C12B6 and D0925C12B4). I also wanted to keep the plugs as original as possible. It turns out the original fans use Molex Spox connectors so I ordered some contacts and housings. I have the Molex crimper for it anyway. With the D1225C12B6 the temperatures where a tad high so I went one step up in power and used the D1225C12B7 version which keeps the temperatures similar when using the original fans.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930863203_f9717fc170_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxRsUt)

One problem was that the CPU fan wasn't showing the RPM with the yellow wire connected. I didn't measure any pulses on it. Can I hack the fan? Yes I can!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930862513_287c84ae22_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxRsGz)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931403441_2a1e9b413f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxUeuV)

It turns out the fan uses a standard chip from Rohm. This chip has two outputs on pins 15 and 16: rotor lock and RPM. R11 and R10 select between which one is connected to the yellow wire. Moving the resistor from R11 to R10 got me the RPM output.

Last but not least I decided to rotate the fan on the CPU cooler 90 degrees so it blows the air outwards so the hot air doesn't go into the acquisition board.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931591037_e4f11769c7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxVcgk)

With the original fans I measure 75dB at 25cm from the front using a mobile phone app. With the fan replacements the sound level is at 68dB. Also the 'Gentle Typhoon' fans seem to be designed to produce a pleasant sound. Needless to say the improvement is massive!

Time to fit the SSD onto a bracket. I looked up the mounting dimensions for 3.5" and 2.5" drives and drilled some holes into an aluminium bracket which I created from a piece from my 'bits of metal' stock. It also needed milling a slot into it to make it fit.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930863353_5f9ab00ef3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxRsX4)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931589897_96498e9bf1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxVbVF)
Fortunately there are SATA connectors on the motherboard so fitting a SATA drive is easy. It also gets rid of a lot of cables.

Then the last bit... uphacking! A fellow forum member was so friendly to share his tricks to turn a 7200A (2GHz) into a 7300A (3GHz). What it takes is removing some capacitors (marked red) and replacing resistors with 0 Ohm links (marked blue):
[attachimg=1]
A software key does the rest to make the scope think it is a Wavepro 7300A.

All in all a nice addition to my lab. Finally! My first real Lecroy scope. I think I'll need quite a bit of time to go through all the possibilities this oscilloscope offers. Lecroy typically is strong where it comes to signal analysis and math.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 21, 2019, 11:46:32 pm
Next stop: PC upgrades. I ordered two 1GB Kingston PC3200 memory modules from Ebay as NOS. I contemplated to buy a 3.2GHz processor as well instead of the existing 2.8GHz 533MHz FSB processor but decided to go through my old PCs first. I found a 2.8GHz P4 with an 800MHz FSB in an old Dell PC and decided to put that in and transplant the Dell cooling solution too because it is very quiet. I had to take the motherboard out for this job though. The CDROM drive no longer fits together with the cooler. Since the motherboard can also boot from a USB stick that isn't a really big problem.
my upgrade to Pentium D 945 (95W) requires big heatsinking. i wanted to keep the CD-ROM (dont want to waste it and would like to keep it in stock config) so i have to use low profile heatsink on the cpu but yet capable to withdraw the 95W generated by it, water cooling is the solution for me. radiator fan is another thing not fit nicely in the enclosure so i diy a bracket out of PC back panel cover to let the radiator sit on top of existing dso fan and utilize the flowing air to keep it cool, so the radiator's fan is not used, i can keep for another project (fan with nice blue LED deco :P). since normal heatsink is not used, no air blowing to nearby regulators and they got hotter when using water cool config, so i have to add small blower for them and made 3d printed bracket to hold it between the back plane and the watercooler (pictures). congratulation on your mod, and some usefull infos there.

thanks. just out of curiosity, does having dual core (physically) or hyperthreading give any noticable performance boost in the xstream software and scope functions/math/zoom/fft/ect...? I think I saw somewhere that it doesn't help much anyways. Have you noticed any difference with and without having hyperthreading?
in the last attached photo i screenshot the cpu usage when activating fft or 3d view, it clearly shown the xstream sw will use both cpu... if more cpu cores, maybe we can play doom :P or some analysis sw in the background while using the dso, fwiw.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 22, 2019, 12:26:03 pm
excellent job and write up, nctnico, as always  :D
I have a few questions and suggestions if you don't mind
did you also replace the fan on the power supply?

you replaced 120x38mm fans with CFM=114 with 120x25mm fans with CFM=83 (higher RPM though but 8-9dB lower noise)
aren't you concerned about the temperatures specially let's say when all channels are sampling at maximum speed and full memory length?
I would love to reduce the noise in this beast even by 5dB but if I want to keep the same airflow I end up with the same noise no matter what fan I choose
have you actually checked the bandwidth of this scope with signal generator (not pulse)? I cannot do it at the moment because my R&S sig gen is sick but I have a feeling that the BW is not nearly 3GHz (mine is 7300A)
If I understood correctly, you just installed a fresh WinXP and then the lecroy software on top of it. What about the cal data and other stuff which are not installed but are specific to the scope? Did you just copy them from the D: drive to your new SSD? My HDD was ok so I just made a raw image on an SSD and everything is ok but I am curious how it should be done if I wanted to start with a fresh winxp install

I have installed a P4 Prescott 3.2GHz 1MB L2 800MHz FSB with original stock cooler and so far i have not seen any unusual temperatures. I loaded the scope with several math functions and temps hardly reach 47-50. Even if I run a cpu stress test (from CPUZ software) temp reaches 60-62 max but with scope usage I never reach that amount of CPU load. I think the SSE3 instructions and 1MB L2 cache can be a big boost in computations, please correct me if I am wrong.

i wouldn't turn the cpu fan towards the side wall because it is very close to the wall and disrupts the air flow and creates a back pressure. that can help increase your cpu temp I think...i am not an expert on this though...

My LCD is degraded and no matter how much I played with all the connectors, there are some white lines that dont go away so I ordered a new lcd from ebay. since you have opened up yours already, is it easy to just replace the inside of the LCD (just the panel and electronics that are inside the lcd cage) without tampering with the touch screen glass?

thanks




Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 22, 2019, 12:35:28 pm
Mechatrommer, thanks for your answer about the dual core. I also noticed that the software uses two threads on my P4 when hyperthreading

I think you have an SDA6000 (only 50 ohm inputs, right? no 1M). What version of the lecroy xstream are you using?
what options do you have on your scope? I have a 7300A but it does not have the "spectrum analyzer" package. of course I have FFT as part of math functions but in your last picture you have a dedicated spectrum analyzer tool. I am curious how I can have that on my scope. what option can enable that tool?

EDIT: mmm...or maybe I do have that but I have not found it yet! I need to play more when I get back home  >:D
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 22, 2019, 01:12:37 pm
...I was looking at SDA6000A datasheet and manual there is no mention of Spectrum Analyzer application. They seem to only have FFT as part of math like my 7300A. Curious how you enabled that spectrum analyzer app?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ZhuraYuk on October 22, 2019, 01:44:30 pm
These are obsolete but I managed to procure the ones mentioned (D1225C12B6 and D0925C12B4).

I hope you still not roasted your ADCs because those fans you re installed are twice as weak by airflow and 10 times weaker by air pressure. There are no  other options available to reduce the noise with 120 fans, default fans are industry top by nose/airflow/pressure.
Next step would be to try 140mm fans or water cooling system.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 22, 2019, 02:21:30 pm
I think you have an SDA6000 (only 50 ohm inputs, right? no 1M). What version of the lecroy xstream are you using?
what options do you have on your scope? I have a 7300A but it does not have the "spectrum analyzer" package. of course I have FFT as part of math functions but in your last picture you have a dedicated spectrum analyzer tool. I am curious how I can have that on my scope. what option can enable that tool?
yes 50 ohm input. latest ver8... you can download from lecroy website (google XStreamDSOInstaller), but in order to add licenses, you need to do it in older ver7.x (i guess the ori xstream installer comes with your DSO saved somewhere in the HDD) after add licenses, upgrade to latest version 8, you can stick with older ver i dont find any problem, except i like the spectrum (FFT) (and 3D iirc) windows arrangement on the latest version. read this thread VERY carefully... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-options-recovery/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-options-recovery/) its not straight forward at first and learn the way how mr jack sparrow talk and think. really, you need to search here in eevblog for "Lecroy mod" "Lecroy dso" etc, there are many infos here.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 22, 2019, 02:24:17 pm
These are obsolete but I managed to procure the ones mentioned (D1225C12B6 and D0925C12B4).

I hope you still not roasted your ADCs because those fans you re installed are twice as weak by airflow and 10 times weaker by air pressure. There are no  other options available to reduce the noise with 120 fans, default fans are industry top by nose/airflow/pressure.
Next step would be to try 140mm fans or water cooling system.

for 140mm fan you must drill holes into the frame (if it fits at all) and still the circular aperture that is available is for 120mm fan, so it will be worse

it should be a 120mmx 38mm fan that is quieter...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 22, 2019, 02:27:41 pm
I think you have an SDA6000 (only 50 ohm inputs, right? no 1M). What version of the lecroy xstream are you using?
what options do you have on your scope? I have a 7300A but it does not have the "spectrum analyzer" package. of course I have FFT as part of math functions but in your last picture you have a dedicated spectrum analyzer tool. I am curious how I can have that on my scope. what option can enable that tool?
yes 50 ohm input. latest ver8... you can download from lecroy website (google XStreamDSOInstaller), but in order to add licenses, you need to do it in older ver7.x (i guess the ori xstream installer comes with your DSO saved somewhere in the HDD) after add licenses, upgrade to latest version 8, you can stick with older ver i dont find any problem, except i like the spectrum (FFT) (and 3D iirc) windows arrangement on the latest version. read this thread VERY carefully... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-options-recovery/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-options-recovery/) its not straight forward at first and learn the way how mr jack sparrow talk and think. really, you need to search here in eevblog for "Lecroy mod" "Lecroy dso" etc, there are many infos here.

I am using the latest x-stream (8.1.2 I think) but what option did you enable for spectrum analyzer function? I have looked everywhere but SDA or WP7K do not have that option. Newer models have it...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 22, 2019, 02:36:00 pm
but what option did you enable for spectrum analyzer function? I have looked everywhere but SDA or WP7K do not have that option. Newer models have it...
option "SPECTRUM"... are you sure you looked around? have you read CAREEEEFULLY the https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-options-recovery/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-options-recovery/) thread? its worth many pages i dont want to repeat it here... tell me what your options.cfg tells you?

These are obsolete but I managed to procure the ones mentioned (D1225C12B6 and D0925C12B4).
I hope you still not roasted your ADCs because those fans you re installed are twice as weak by airflow and 10 times weaker by air pressure. There are no  other options available to reduce the noise with 120 fans, default fans are industry top by nose/airflow/pressure.
Next step would be to try 140mm fans or water cooling system.
how are you going to cool the down under the whole acq board with water cool system? iirc Converter made a mod to use larger diameter fan replacing the original fans. its in the earlier page.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 22, 2019, 02:50:32 pm
excellent job and write up, nctnico, as always  :D
I have a few questions and suggestions if you don't mind
did you also replace the fan on the power supply?

you replaced 120x38mm fans with CFM=114 with 120x25mm fans with CFM=83 (higher RPM though but 8-9dB lower noise)
aren't you concerned about the temperatures specially let's say when all channels are sampling at maximum speed and full memory length?
I would love to reduce the noise in this beast even by 5dB but if I want to keep the same airflow I end up with the same noise no matter
These Gentle Typhoon fans have a very high static pressure. When comparing fans you need to compare the pressure/airflow graphs; not just the amount of air a fan moves. And yes, I have also replaced the fan for the power supply.
Quote
If I understood correctly, you just installed a fresh WinXP and then the lecroy software on top of it. What about the cal data and other stuff which are not installed but are specific to the scope? Did you just copy them from the D: drive to your new SSD? My HDD was ok so I just made a raw image on an SSD and everything is ok but I am curious how it should be done if I wanted to start with a fresh winxp install
It turns out the factory calibration is also in the EEPROMs on the acquisition board so you don't need to save the files. A self calibration from the service menu does the rest to restore all the calibration data.

Quote
I have installed a P4 Prescott 3.2GHz 1MB L2 800MHz FSB with original stock cooler and so far i have not seen any unusual temperatures. I loaded the scope with several math functions and temps hardly reach 47-50. Even if I run a cpu stress test (from CPUZ software) temp reaches 60-62 max but with scope usage I never reach that amount of CPU load. I think the SSE3 instructions and 1MB L2 cache can be a big boost in computations, please correct me if I am wrong.

i wouldn't turn the cpu fan towards the side wall because it is very close to the wall and disrupts the air flow and creates a back pressure. that can help increase your cpu temp I think...i am not an expert on this though...

I'm not seeing a difference in CPU temperature. The fan is close to the casing and I can feel it blowing out some of the warm air.
Quote
My LCD is degraded and no matter how much I played with all the connectors, there are some white lines that dont go away so I ordered a new lcd from ebay. since you have opened up yours already, is it easy to just replace the inside of the LCD (just the panel and electronics that are inside the lcd cage) without tampering with the touch screen glass?
The touchscreen is glued to the TFT screen so it basically is one unit. However if you can careful you can take the new LCD panel apart and transplant the outer rim. With some patience and enough space to work this is very doable.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 22, 2019, 02:53:03 pm
These are obsolete but I managed to procure the ones mentioned (D1225C12B6 and D0925C12B4).

I hope you still not roasted your ADCs because those fans you re installed are twice as weak by airflow and 10 times weaker by air pressure. There are no  other options available to reduce the noise with 120 fans, default fans are industry top by nose/airflow/pressure.
Next step would be to try 140mm fans or water cooling system.
Sorry, I should have written the D1225C12B7 instead of the D1225C12B6 but even with the D1225C12B6 temperatures stay within limits. The fans I used are just potent as the fans they replace; make sure you converted the pressure rating because the fan manufacturers seem to use up to 4 different units for the pressure. The temperature monitoring from the service menu shows about the same temperatures compared to the old fans.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ZhuraYuk on October 22, 2019, 03:53:36 pm

for 140mm fan you must drill holes into the frame (if it fits at all) and still the circular aperture that is available is for 120mm fan, so it will be worse
Why drill? You can use 120<>140 mm adapters

[attachimg=1]


it should be a 120mmx 38mm fan that is quieter...
I was unable find any, it looks like the ones used in WP7k are the best in industry.

how are you going to cool the down under the whole acq board with water cool system? iirc Converter made a mod to use larger diameter fan replacing the original fans. its in the earlier page.
I thought of putting separate heat sink for CPU on top of each ADC and rest of the elements can be cooled with with much weaker and silent fan.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 22, 2019, 03:56:23 pm
It turns out the factory calibration is also in the EEPROMs on the acquisition board so you don't need to save the files. A self calibration from the service menu does the rest to restore all the calibration data.
if original owner did a calibration process later during the life of the scope in service, will it saved in eeprom too?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 22, 2019, 04:44:16 pm
It turns out the factory calibration is also in the EEPROMs on the acquisition board so you don't need to save the files. A self calibration from the service menu does the rest to restore all the calibration data.
if original owner did a calibration process later during the life of the scope in service, will it saved in eeprom too?
You'd have to ask Lecroy. I'd assume if you send it to Lecroy then they might update the EEPROM values if necessary.
It seems the self calibration data is saved in different files. The data which is in the EEPROMs is read once if the file is missing on the disk.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 22, 2019, 05:51:44 pm
how are you going to cool the down under the whole acq board with water cool system? iirc Converter made a mod to use larger diameter fan replacing the original fans. its in the earlier page.
I thought of putting separate heat sink for CPU on top of each ADC and rest of the elements can be cooled with with much weaker and silent fan.
I'm not sure whether you have enough room for that. What I have been thinking about is adding ducts along the acquisition board and from the fans so the airflow could be much more laminar. What I've noticed is that there is a large difference between the temperatures of the various parts. So it seems the airflow isn't even across the acquisition board.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on October 22, 2019, 06:24:56 pm
how are you going to cool the down under the whole acq board with water cool system? iirc Converter made a mod to use larger diameter fan replacing the original fans. its in the earlier page.
I thought of putting separate heat sink for CPU on top of each ADC and rest of the elements can be cooled with with much weaker and silent fan.
I'm not sure whether you have enough room for that. What I have been thinking about is adding ducts along the acquisition board and from the fans so the airflow could be much more laminar. What I've noticed is that there is a large difference between the temperatures of the various parts. So it seems the airflow isn't even across the acquisition board.
this would be the best idea. right now those two fans are blowing at quite a distance from the holes on top of the acq board and i think a lot of air flow is being lost (EDIT: wasted) in that area underneath the fans
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on October 22, 2019, 06:40:19 pm
Still it requires taking the scope apart a few times. Before getting to any conclusion you'd have to make several temperature measurements. Airflow is not very predictable.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 23, 2019, 12:44:19 am
i think the designer knew what they were doing, there are walls or partitions to constrain airflow into the acq board and i think airflow should spread as there are few components need cooling at various places under there. i have a concern about failure points or leakage when installing water cool for the cpu, i have to arrange carefully in case leakage, liquid will not fall directly into acq section, so i have to place what i think as weak points of the water cool system on top of the top platform and by just looking at it, top platform should be quite capable to direct any liquid flow to the back side of the dso/acq board, hopefully. if anybody thinking of watercool piping directly going to the acq board at various places then good luck, i hope you can come up with a sound reliability system.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ZhuraYuk on October 23, 2019, 11:14:21 am
Does anyone thought about sound absorbing foam for cars? You can create vent from it  and glue on the housing walls.

Update: Here is what I got using self adhesive Polyurethane foam for cars.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ZhuraYuk on November 01, 2019, 01:21:45 pm
Another update. So this thing works, but it block only high frequency component of the noise. Only low frequency soft hum is left which is much more bearable and I am ok with it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on November 01, 2019, 02:18:09 pm
My 7200A has an annoying problem: the cursor knobs don't work. Or at least they move erratically when I turn the knobs. Either I'm doing something wrong or the encoders are bad.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 01, 2019, 02:29:32 pm
My 7200A has an annoying problem: the cursor knobs don't work. Or at least they move erratically when I turn the knobs. Either I'm doing something wrong or the encoders are bad.
most probably the encoders. do the cursors work properly with mouse and touchscreen?
Although possible but I wouldn't try to repair the encoders for such a nice and pricey equipment. You can buy them new from reputable sources (like digikey or mouser or farnell etc..) and usually they are cheap. I once replaced 2-3 of them on my wavepro 960. Most probably they are either from ALPS or Bourns, if there is no part number, just try to match their size and configuration to one of the encoders from these two brands
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on November 01, 2019, 02:56:49 pm
My 7200A has an annoying problem: the cursor knobs don't work. Or at least they move erratically when I turn the knobs. Either I'm doing something wrong or the encoders are bad.

As analogRF said - dirty encoders, infamous ALPS one where the grease spreads everywhere. There is quite a bit of them and they are not that cheap (I think EC16 series it was), so I've decided to take them apart and clean them by hand. If I bought new it would cost quite a bit and I would have to desolder the old ones which is a bit of work anyway. Depends how highly you value your time.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on November 01, 2019, 03:07:38 pm
My 7200A has an annoying problem: the cursor knobs don't work. Or at least they move erratically when I turn the knobs. Either I'm doing something wrong or the encoders are bad.

As analogRF said - dirty encoders, infamous ALPS one where the grease spreads everywhere. There is quite a bit of them and they are not that cheap (I think EC16 series it was), so I've decided to take them apart and clean them by hand. If I bought new it would cost quite a bit and I would have to desolder the old ones which is a bit of work anyway. Depends how highly you value your time.
Well I probably like new encoders unless the price is insane. What puts me off right now is taking the oscilloscope apart again. I already noticed the front panel is not very easy to access.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 01, 2019, 03:26:06 pm
My 7200A has an annoying problem: the cursor knobs don't work. Or at least they move erratically when I turn the knobs. Either I'm doing something wrong or the encoders are bad.

As analogRF said - dirty encoders, infamous ALPS one where the grease spreads everywhere. There is quite a bit of them and they are not that cheap (I think EC16 series it was), so I've decided to take them apart and clean them by hand. If I bought new it would cost quite a bit and I would have to desolder the old ones which is a bit of work anyway. Depends how highly you value your time.

I just checked my order history, for my Wavepro 960, they were Bourns encoders (PEC16 series) and they were CA $1.51 each from mouser back in 2018.
about 2 month ago I had to buy an ALPS encoder (EC12 series) for my AFG3252 and it was CA $1.36 from mouser

EDIT: and they were very easy and clean to replace if you have a good soldering iron and good solder wick, nothing else.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on November 01, 2019, 06:09:44 pm
Buy a new encoder? Sorry, but such an action is for completely armless people. There is nothing in them that even a child would not cope with.
In recent times, I have been servicing them without even soldering from the board.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 07, 2019, 02:28:33 pm
Buy a new encoder? Sorry, but such an action is for completely armless people. There is nothing in them that even a child would not cope with.
In recent times, I have been servicing them without even soldering from the board.

yeah, well, I have repaired/cleaned a dozen of similar encoders on lecroy scopes (LC584AL and WP 960) and agilent power supplies but the problem was that the intermittent behavior usually comes back pretty soon specially if you use it frequently everyday. much much earlier than a new encoder.

if the brand new encoder is just $1-$1.5 I rather buy a brand new (along with other items that I might need in a BOM to combine the shipping) from mouser or digikey or newark. Soldering and desoldering them is a piece of cake really: good iron + good wick
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 07, 2019, 02:49:23 pm
I finally received the replacement LCD from the same source that Mechatrommer mentioned and I took the lCD out of its frame and replaced it without touching the touhscreen  :) Very easy as nctnico said.

Now the screen looks nice and uniform...I am sure that original LCD should be repairable somehow but I dont know how...
Still running my 3.2GHz Prescott CPU and temps are ok with the original stock fan! But I have got a beefier cooler which I will replace
it. However the CD drive will have to go which is perfectly OK with me.

instead of those Gentle Typhoon Nidec fans (D1225C12B7) which was mentioned in the thread, I found these fans that you can easily buy from mouser : Sanyo Denky 9G1212F101 for the two big ACQ fans and Delta AFB0912H-F00 for the PSU fan
I have not replaced them yet but these fans are easily available and they have better specs both in air flow and static pressure and with the same noise level (or even slightly better) than those Gentle Typhoon fans which was expensive (at least for me with shipping to Canada)

now I am a bit puzzled as to how the fans are disassembled from the unit? There is a foam like layer underneath for noise reduction which is probably degraded after all these years and I am afraid it may be destroyed if I try to lift the fan holder plate. Any hint as to how to safely and cleanly removed the fans and replace them?

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on November 07, 2019, 03:15:54 pm
Buy a new encoder? Sorry, but such an action is for completely armless people. There is nothing in them that even a child would not cope with.
In recent times, I have been servicing them without even soldering from the board.

yeah, well, I have repaired/cleaned a dozen of similar encoders on lecroy scopes (LC584AL and WP 960) and agilent power supplies but the problem was that the intermittent behavior usually comes back pretty soon specially if you use it frequently everyday. much much earlier than a new encoder.

if the brand new encoder is just $1-$1.5 I rather buy a brand new (along with other items that I might need in a BOM to combine the shipping) from mouser or digikey or newark. Soldering and desoldering them is a piece of cake really: good iron + good wick
Just that you should also bend the contacts a little, as the metal gets tired over time.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 07, 2019, 03:23:35 pm
Buy a new encoder? Sorry, but such an action is for completely armless people. There is nothing in them that even a child would not cope with.
In recent times, I have been servicing them without even soldering from the board.

yeah, well, I have repaired/cleaned a dozen of similar encoders on lecroy scopes (LC584AL and WP 960) and agilent power supplies but the problem was that the intermittent behavior usually comes back pretty soon specially if you use it frequently everyday. much much earlier than a new encoder.

if the brand new encoder is just $1-$1.5 I rather buy a brand new (along with other items that I might need in a BOM to combine the shipping) from mouser or digikey or newark. Soldering and desoldering them is a piece of cake really: good iron + good wick
Just that you should also bend the contacts a little, as the metal gets tired over time.

yes, I had done all of that...once I had to open and repair the encoder on AFG3252 like every 10 days or so! It would be perfectly alright for 10-12 days and would start misbehaving again. Same with a couple of encoders on LC584 and WP960....so I gave up and bought new ones and replaced them. at $1 or $1.5 I would always do it. Sure if you just need to buy 1 encoder and pay shipping for it, it might be considered as expensive but I usually combine them in a BOM with other supplies...

EDIT: at first I was afraid of ruining the board when desoldering them but after the first one I realized it was pretty easy and safe...but a cheap iron or cheap chinese solder wick will not do it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on November 07, 2019, 05:36:23 pm
now I am a bit puzzled as to how the fans are disassembled from the unit? There is a foam like layer underneath for noise reduction which is probably degraded after all these years and I am afraid it may be destroyed if I try to lift the fan holder plate. Any hint as to how to safely and cleanly removed the fans and replace them?
You can unscrew the entire baseplate on which the foam layer is glued to. After that you can (carefully) manouvre the fans out including the base plate. In my unit the foam layer was perfectly fine. It is a kind of rubber-foam which doesn't seem te degrade.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on November 07, 2019, 06:01:54 pm
I've also ran into some encoder issues on WP7k scopes, but mine have always just been oxidation from disuse.  Give em a few dozen spins and they start working alright again - just seems like when stored in a non-ideal climate and not used for a while, they take some working to get registering properly again.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ZhuraYuk on November 07, 2019, 07:26:04 pm


instead of those Gentle Typhoon Nidec fans (D1225C12B7) which was mentioned in the thread, I found these fans that you can easily buy from mouser : Sanyo Denky 9G1212F101 for the two big ACQ fans and Delta AFB0912H-F00 for the PSU fan
I have not replaced them yet but these fans are easily available and they have better specs both in air flow and static pressure and with the same noise level (or even slightly better) than those Gentle Typhoon fans which was expensive (at least for me with shipping to Canada)



Can you post screenshot of your temperatures for Aladdin acquisition board from Service Menu after you replace the fans?
I see that they are twice weaker as original ones and have high doubts about their ability to keep temperatures in safe ranges.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 07, 2019, 07:36:00 pm


instead of those Gentle Typhoon Nidec fans (D1225C12B7) which was mentioned in the thread, I found these fans that you can easily buy from mouser : Sanyo Denky 9G1212F101 for the two big ACQ fans and Delta AFB0912H-F00 for the PSU fan
I have not replaced them yet but these fans are easily available and they have better specs both in air flow and static pressure and with the same noise level (or even slightly better) than those Gentle Typhoon fans which was expensive (at least for me with shipping to Canada)



Can you post screenshot of your temperatures for Aladdin acquisition board from Service Menu after you replace the fans?
I see that they are twice weaker as original ones and have high doubts about their ability to keep temperatures in safe ranges.

yes certainly I will do that when i find the time to replace the fans. hopefully soon...I already have them here...
but several people have reported their temps are the same or even 1-2deg better with those gentle typhoon fans
if that is the case, these ones must be even better because they have better specs than Nidec fans. However, yes they are still weaker
than the original panaflo fans which are loud like a 747 engine
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on November 07, 2019, 09:53:05 pm


instead of those Gentle Typhoon Nidec fans (D1225C12B7) which was mentioned in the thread, I found these fans that you can easily buy from mouser : Sanyo Denky 9G1212F101 for the two big ACQ fans and Delta AFB0912H-F00 for the PSU fan
I have not replaced them yet but these fans are easily available and they have better specs both in air flow and static pressure and with the same noise level (or even slightly better) than those Gentle Typhoon fans which was expensive (at least for me with shipping to Canada)

Can you post screenshot of your temperatures for Aladdin acquisition board from Service Menu after you replace the fans?
I see that they are twice weaker as original ones and have high doubts about their ability to keep temperatures in safe ranges.
If you check the graphs of the fans carefully you'll see that the replacement fans aren't weaker at all. The maximum pressure is at zero airflow and the maximum flow is at zero pressure and the graphs are far from linear. In other words: you can't just compare pressure and airflow numbers when comparing fans. The operating point is somewhere in between and that is where the replacement fans match the original fans.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on November 07, 2019, 09:55:40 pm
I've also ran into some encoder issues on WP7k scopes, but mine have always just been oxidation from disuse.  Give em a few dozen spins and they start working alright again - just seems like when stored in a non-ideal climate and not used for a while, they take some working to get registering properly again.
That could be the case with my 7200A. I already had to fix a lot of contact related issues in mine and it came from Singapore (where -I know from my own experience- it is very humid). I have not tested all the encoders yet but so far 6 are flaky or worse.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ZhuraYuk on November 07, 2019, 11:22:49 pm
Here is my temperatures after 30 min run in 2ch 20GS mode at 7300A. This is with sound absorbing foam vent mod.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on November 07, 2019, 11:25:52 pm
What is the temperature in the room? With a room temperature of around 23 degrees the MAD temperatures in my 7200A are around 66 degrees.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 08, 2019, 02:43:47 am
can somebody tell me what MAD and MFE and MAM and AMB and MTB mean??
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on November 08, 2019, 04:21:47 am
I think MAD is the ADC and MFE is the frontend... which would make MFEEXT the external trigger frontend module and MTB probably the hardware trigger chip?



That would imply that the MAM and maybe the AMB are between the frontend and ADC/trigger blocks, maybe a switching/routing chip, but I don't see it on the board.  You likely can just look for another thing with a heatsink on the acquisition board and it's probably one of them.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on November 08, 2019, 06:36:45 am
Quote from: LeCroy Documentation
There is some special LeCroy nomenclature employed here. All LeCroy
chips are referred to as three letters beginning with an ’M’ which stands
for monolithic. The complete three letter acronym tries to be descriptive.
Therefore, an MSH is a monolithic sample/hold, an MAD is a monolithic
ADC, and an MAM is a monolithic acquisition memory.

MAM: Monolithic Acquisition Memory
MAD: Monolithic ADC
MSH: Monolithic Sample and Hold
MTT: Monolithic Trigger and Timebase
MFE: Monolithic Front End
MTD: Monolithic Time Digitizer
MST: Monolithic Smart Trigger

AAC: Autonomous Acquisitions Control
HTB: Hybrid Timebase Trigger IC
HAD: Hybrid ADC
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ZhuraYuk on November 08, 2019, 12:11:08 pm
What is the temperature in the room? With a room temperature of around 23 degrees the MAD temperatures in my 7200A are around 66 degrees.


Room temperature is 25 celsius. When sample rate is low mine also never rize above 67.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 08, 2019, 12:27:41 pm
Quote from: LeCroy Documentation
There is some special LeCroy nomenclature employed here. All LeCroy
chips are referred to as three letters beginning with an ’M’ which stands
for monolithic. The complete three letter acronym tries to be descriptive.
Therefore, an MSH is a monolithic sample/hold, an MAD is a monolithic
ADC, and an MAM is a monolithic acquisition memory.

MAM: Monolithic Acquisition Memory
MAD: Monolithic ADC
MSH: Monolithic Sample and Hold
MTT: Monolithic Trigger and Timebase
MFE: Monolithic Front End
MTD: Monolithic Time Digitizer
MST: Monolithic Smart Trigger

AAC: Autonomous Acquisitions Control
HTB: Hybrid Timebase Trigger IC
HAD: Hybrid ADC

thanks. Which Lecroy documentation did you get this from?
what remains though is AMB and MTB. MTB is perhaps Monolithic Timebase chip but what is AMB?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on November 08, 2019, 04:38:07 pm
Various sources:  Technologies for Very High Bandwidth Real-time
Oscilloscopes, Advances in Oscilloscope Technology, and older product service manuals.

One of the service manuals adds the following:
MTB: Monolithic TimeBase
MCG: Monolithic Clock Generator
HTR: Hybrid Trigger compaRator
HSY: Hybrid Switchyard
HAM: Hybrid Acquisition Memory

No reference to AMB found yet.  I wonder if it could be for AMBient temperature, though.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on November 08, 2019, 07:24:15 pm
Here is my temperatures after 30 min run in 2ch 20GS mode at 7300A. This is with sound absorbing foam vent mod.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/?action=dlattach;attach=868226;image)
Here is a screenshot from mine (with the Gentle Typhoon fans):
[attachimg=1]

The room temperature is around 22 degC. I don't think your foam addition is improving the airflow from the fans because the temperatures in my scope are about 5 to 8 degrees lower. I'd guess that the rough and irregular surface of the foam causes a lot of turbulence and limits the airflow. It is also clear that the airflow over the acquisition board is far from consistent given the large differences between the channels.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 08, 2019, 08:47:16 pm
it's a bit silly that the software reports temperatures with 2 decimal digits  :-DD
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 10, 2019, 05:43:52 pm
i dont have a screen shot but my MAD temperatures with the original Panaflo fans after around 1-1.5 hours of normal use (mostly spectrum analysis) are around 71-76 degrees C. Other temps hover around 60-68...so the fans are lousy but noisy ... they sound like a jet engine but not very effective...

EDIT: and my Prescott 3.2GHz HyperThreading CPU is holding up with the original stock fan! temp is around 60-62... the software does not heavily load the CPU
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on November 13, 2019, 12:45:00 am
Whether or not the software loads up the CPU depends on what features are enabled.  Basic scope functionality is low load but filtering, protocol decode, and other math transforms and software triggers wind up having to use the CPU to process the capture buffer.  Your CPU load then becomes a function of your sample rate and memory depth.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 13, 2019, 03:49:15 am
Whether or not the software loads up the CPU depends on what features are enabled.  Basic scope functionality is low load but filtering, protocol decode, and other math transforms and software triggers wind up having to use the CPU to process the capture buffer.  Your CPU load then becomes a function of your sample rate and memory depth.

yes, I have ALL options enabled, I was measuring temps with one cascaded math AVG (FFT) on ch1 and a digital filtering on ch2
both at 10Gs/s. both threads on the CPU remain below %60-70 or so...in fact one of them is way below...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on November 13, 2019, 07:11:01 am
Ran into a strange issue working on a WP7300 running the latest XStream compatible with XP - everything seems to work fine and feel responsive, until you move a waveform... then you get a couple seconds worth of lag before it updates anything and starts acquiring.  Makes it especially difficult to use the knobs to pick an offset, since it seems to only get the first bit of the input.

Tried uninstalling and reinstalling the XStream package, also tried reinstalling the chipset drivers.  Is this some confused XP thing that just needs a full OS install, or have you run into something that causes this?  When acquiring, all the software menus are responsive, and I haven't been able to mimick the behavior in any of the other software I try on the scope.

Anyone run into it and have a fix?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 13, 2019, 12:24:34 pm
can you state at what time/div and sample rate and memory length you face this problem? or is it happening all the time?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on November 13, 2019, 05:52:23 pm
Basically all the time, happens well into the 10s of ns time divisions, also on the full autoset mode - the update rate is great when you're not messing with it (and moving from balanced performance to display performance makes a surprising difference), but you try to move a trace and the whole program (not the OS) locks up for a couple seconds.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on November 15, 2019, 07:58:54 pm
Basically all the time, happens well into the 10s of ns time divisions, also on the full autoset mode - the update rate is great when you're not messing with it (and moving from balanced performance to display performance makes a surprising difference), but you try to move a trace and the whole program (not the OS) locks up for a couple seconds.

I couldnt reproduce anything close to this on my 7300A. does it happen when you move the trace by position knob or by touch screen?
also how about moving the waveform horizontally?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on November 16, 2019, 06:57:36 am
Just managed to fix it, I think it was actually a driver issue - I had updated to 8.1.2 but had not installed the follow up driver package, which may have solved my problem.  Thinking back, I had some trouble with getting the acquisition card recognized at one point, and the image from another scope had some slightly flaky front panel lights... probably all related.

Instead, I poked around for a bit with settings and eventually did a clean windows install suspecting some sort of driver corruption/conflict from the image I had used copied from another machine.  I learned a couple things in the process!

To do a clean install of XP over the normal partition:
Install Windows XP as normal
Install D865GLC drivers (no longer available form intel, but hosted on third party sites - consists of chipset INF drivers, LAN drivers, Audio drivers, graphics drivers) - this was on a later model 7300, there are different mainboards used so check the board markings or open up CPUZ first to verify!
Install the 8.1.2 XStream package
Install the accompanying XStream driver package - on my unit, one driver failed install, but if you manually point it to LeCroy Data Acquisition devices later it will install fine
Install the touch panel drivers (not included with the XStream driver package, as it suggests in the how-to installation guide) which is UPDD v3 with support for the 3M SC4 Serial touch controller driver - not officially available for download, but a link I found for version "3854" included the needed drivers and installed properly.  The official UPDD current version does not open on XP 32 bit.

That should get your WP 7k to boot into the scope application and function successfully.  You'll need to calibrate the touch screen (can be done from the utilities menu) and if you don't have the cal data on the second partition, you'll need to calibrate it too.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 16, 2019, 11:05:12 am
Install D865GLC drivers (no longer available form intel,
bummer! i remember downloading all the update files last year when they are still up (61MB size), now they all gone! intel must have deleted the links within this year. same happened to D845GERG2, D845GRG and D865GSA board :palm:
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on November 26, 2019, 08:36:19 am
Install D865GLC drivers (no longer available form intel,
bummer! i remember downloading all the update files last year when they are still up (61MB size), now they all gone! intel must have deleted the links within this year. same happened to D845GERG2, D845GRG and D865GSA board :palm:

Found the BIOS update file floating around on the net but since I do not have my 5005 here yet I have no way to test it so use with care:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mdq6nwxv0af7rj1/AADC0HEm9npvn11GlOINyvqYa?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mdq6nwxv0af7rj1/AADC0HEm9npvn11GlOINyvqYa?dl=0)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on November 26, 2019, 08:38:20 am
Install the 8.1.2 XStream package
Install the accompanying XStream driver package - on my unit, one driver failed install, but if you manually point it to LeCroy Data Acquisition devices later it will install fine
Install the touch panel drivers (not included with the XStream driver package, as it suggests in the how-to installation guide) which is UPDD v3 with support for the 3M SC4 Serial touch controller driver - not officially available for download, but a link I found for version "3854" included the needed drivers and installed properly.  The official UPDD current version does not open on XP 32 bit.

Where do I get the X-Stream Software Packages and the touch panel drivers?
I searched this thread as well as Lecrys site but so far I could not find them.

I would need them since the 5005 I ordered will come without hdd and I will need the hole package to make any use of it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 06, 2019, 05:20:14 pm
Maybe I'm just to young but how exactly do I install the BIOS upgrade which comes as an executable? I tried loading it on to a usb stick and booting from it but that does not seem to be it.

Do I need to upgrade the BIOS to install XP on it? I'm starting to suspect so because I'm having trouble installing the OS in general. The original CDROM drive does not work at all. I had no look booting XP setup from several usb sticks. With an external CD/DVD drive and the win2000 cd I get a NTDLR error so taht disk is prob. gone. With the same drive and the windows xp disk 1 I get the "no boot disk inserted" error.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 06, 2019, 05:55:58 pm
BIOS upgrade?  What BIOS upgrade?


I'm always hesitant to upgrade the BIOS on a bit of test gear with a normal motherboard because they are sometimes customized for the device - at the very least a bios upgrade not direct from LeCroy wouldn't have the splash screen and stuff.

That said, the normal procedure for a BIOS update would be to load it on a floppy and boot from it (usually an exe that makes the floppy bootable with the flashing application), or in the case of some BIOSes, they have a mechanism in the menu to point to the update file.  It wasn't until more modern boards than this one that even booting from a USB key was common and relatively error-free, so expecting it to be able to handle a BIOS update from USB or bootable CD is more credit than I would give it...

The CD drive in the rear should be fine to boot from with a normal XP installation CD, I did it on one a couple months ago, but you may have to configure the boot order in the BIOS for the system to even try the CD drive by default.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 06, 2019, 06:02:44 pm
You can update the BIOS without any problems on the Wavepro 7000 series. The boot screen is in a different section of the flash.

However if the OS doesn't install I'd look at the motherboard and surrounding components first. Likely the problem is in there. Also don't let Windows install any drivers for unknown devices. Just let them remain unknown.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 06, 2019, 06:37:54 pm
as others mentioned, there is no need for tampering with the bios. XP should install with whatever bios you have. It's probably the latest version anyways.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 06, 2019, 07:21:57 pm
BIOS upgrade?  What BIOS upgrade?


I'm always hesitant to upgrade the BIOS on a bit of test gear with a normal motherboard because they are sometimes customized for the device - at the very least a bios upgrade not direct from LeCroy wouldn't have the splash screen and stuff.

That said, the normal procedure for a BIOS update would be to load it on a floppy and boot from it (usually an exe that makes the floppy bootable with the flashing application), or in the case of some BIOSes, they have a mechanism in the menu to point to the update file.  It wasn't until more modern boards than this one that even booting from a USB key was common and relatively error-free, so expecting it to be able to handle a BIOS update from USB or bootable CD is more credit than I would give it...

The CD drive in the rear should be fine to boot from with a normal XP installation CD, I did it on one a couple months ago, but you may have to configure the boot order in the BIOS for the system to even try the CD drive by default.

Well every time I want to boot a xp stick I get a disk read error...
Im using Rufus 2.18 to burn a bootable mbr bios usb stick with my xp iso file.

The iso file is good. It works fine on my vm.

I also tried the winsetupfromusb 1.8. This starts to boot and xp starts installing (from the same usb stick) but then crashes with some windows bluescreen error during installation.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 06, 2019, 07:29:46 pm
Did you change the hard drive and/or IDE cable? Your symptoms look like the hard drive or the cable between the motherboard and hard drive is bad. Another suspect is the memory.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 06, 2019, 08:07:30 pm
For what it's worth, no XP era machine I've worked with I could get to reliably boot from bootable USBs.  A normal bootable CD should be fine, and a bootable floppy would be fine, but something about the USB implementation in boards from this era has made USB booting (less so from USB CD drives) a roll of the dice even when there's a bios option for it.

If you're installing XP, use a CD, that's what I'd stick with.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 06, 2019, 08:14:45 pm
Did you change the hard drive and/or IDE cable? Your symptoms look like the hard drive or the cable between the motherboard and hard drive is bad. Another suspect is the memory.

The original hd has a serious case of the clicking death... That's why I have to reinstall.
I attached a 500gb hd on the sata1 port. When I used an alternative cd drive, I attached that one on the sata1 just to see if I would get anything. I do not have another IDE cd drive. I would have another IDE hd to test but I dont see how that would help at this stage.

Maybe I burn another set of xp cds.

However I find it strange that with the original IDE cd drive, the win xp setup fails without any error at all (new never opened disks) and the win 2000 installation at least reports an error...

Strange. Windows. I love it ^^
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 06, 2019, 08:42:11 pm
If you burn a CD-ROM be sure to burn it at the lowest speed. I have bad experiences using CD-ROMs burned at high speeds in older CD-ROM drives.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 06, 2019, 08:50:04 pm
Did you change the hard drive and/or IDE cable? Your symptoms look like the hard drive or the cable between the motherboard and hard drive is bad. Another suspect is the memory.

The original hd has a serious case of the clicking death... That's why I have to reinstall.
I attached a 500gb hd on the sata1 port. When I used an alternative cd drive, I attached that one on the sata1 just to see if I would get anything. I do not have another IDE cd drive. I would have another IDE hd to test but I dont see how that would help at this stage.

Maybe I burn another set of xp cds.

However I find it strange that with the original IDE cd drive, the win xp setup fails without any error at all (new never opened disks) and the win 2000 installation at least reports an error...

Strange. Windows. I love it ^^

despite the hdd being noisy and about to die, does the scope boot and work with that hard drive? if it does, just make an image on a ssd
you need to back up and transfer your cal data from D drive anyways, I think.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 06, 2019, 09:04:06 pm
For what it's worth, no XP era machine I've worked with I could get to reliably boot from bootable USBs.  A normal bootable CD should be fine, and a bootable floppy would be fine, but something about the USB implementation in boards from this era has made USB booting (less so from USB CD drives) a roll of the dice even when there's a bios option for it.

If you're installing XP, use a CD, that's what I'd stick with.


Dammit! Burned the iso to a disk and it works  |O |O |O
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 06, 2019, 10:06:05 pm
Did you change the hard drive and/or IDE cable? Your symptoms look like the hard drive or the cable between the motherboard and hard drive is bad. Another suspect is the memory.

The original hd has a serious case of the clicking death... That's why I have to reinstall.
I attached a 500gb hd on the sata1 port. When I used an alternative cd drive, I attached that one on the sata1 just to see if I would get anything. I do not have another IDE cd drive. I would have another IDE hd to test but I dont see how that would help at this stage.

Maybe I burn another set of xp cds.

However I find it strange that with the original IDE cd drive, the win xp setup fails without any error at all (new never opened disks) and the win 2000 installation at least reports an error...

Strange. Windows. I love it ^^

despite the hdd being noisy and about to die, does the scope boot and work with that hard drive? if it does, just make an image on a ssd
you need to back up and transfer your cal data from D drive anyways, I think.

Hmm it clicked loudly and did not boot. So I assumend it was dead. I have to grab an IDE converter tomorrow and see if my pc can get anything.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 06, 2019, 11:59:56 pm
So... I installed the chipset and lan drivers from here: https://drivers.eu/Mainboards/INTEL/D865GLC (https://drivers.eu/Mainboards/INTEL/D865GLC) since they are not available elswhere.
Then I installed the XStream-DSO Drives and the XStream software for XP from here: https://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=17 (https://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=17) by selecting the DDA-3xxx dda-5xxx option corresponding to my DDA-5005.

The problem is that there seems to be a missing file in the XStreamDrive installation, more specifically the "Multifunction Device" is not found (see picture).
Then when I start XStream it says no hardware detected, not allowed to run...


Edit: I Did a complete reinstallation. The "Multifunction Device" is still not found but it is allowed to run now. However, it is in a kind of demo mode with demo waveforms. The serial number is also not correct.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 07, 2019, 06:20:01 am
There's the XStream software pack, then there's an additional aladdin driver pack, and I believe the order is supposed to be that way.  If you go into the device manager you should be able to update drivers for unknown devices, and windows may auto-find the installed driver.  It has been finicky for me before, but I'm not entirely sure why.  With my last install, one of the drivers in the pack didn't seem to install on its own, but process of elimination forcing it to install on the remaining unknown device worked fine.  I also think the printer driver needs to be installed after everything, if you have it, since the printer connection is through the PCI card, so you need the card's drivers to be in place for it to even be found.

There's also the chance something is actually wrong with it.  Communication errors generally show up in the bottom notification box, but you can get more detail as to what is going on through the service menu or the xstream browser (I think that's what it's called) that will give you some additional configuration and diagnostic information that you can normally find through remote control commands.


BTW, "burning" a CD ISO to a USB key will never be bootable (unless they've expanded options now), a bootable USB needs a boot sector setup closer to a floppy disk than a CD drive, so there's a format difference that prevents just a CD ISO from doing the job.  I think the official method for XP on a USB key was something like taking the full install, the boot sector from a bootable floppy, then using a tool to build the USB key from that.... hard to remember the details as it's been like 15 years :p
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 07, 2019, 09:26:51 am
There's the XStream software pack, then there's an additional aladdin driver pack, and I believe the order is supposed to be that way.

Hmm, I did notice any aladdin driver install. Is that supposed to be on the Lecroy driver install?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 07, 2019, 09:50:08 am
There's the XStream software pack, then there's an additional aladdin driver pack, and I believe the order is supposed to be that way.

Hmm, I did notice any aladdin driver install. Is that supposed to be on the Lecroy driver install?

But it does look like this is the problem. The multifunctional device showing up in device manager identifies as a aladdin_aquisition_dev
Connected to the internet, drivers are not found automatically and I have not found much by searching manually. Maybe someone has the driver saved?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 07, 2019, 10:05:52 am
There's the XStream software pack, then there's an additional aladdin driver pack, and I believe the order is supposed to be that way.

Hmm, I did notice any aladdin driver install. Is that supposed to be on the Lecroy driver install?
Yes. The driver installation is part of the oscilloscope software package.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 07, 2019, 11:01:11 am
There's the XStream software pack, then there's an additional aladdin driver pack, and I believe the order is supposed to be that way.

Hmm, I did notice any aladdin driver install. Is that supposed to be on the Lecroy driver install?
Yes. The driver installation is part of the oscilloscope software package.

Interesting, ok.
If I install the XSteam drivers package, Windows firs asks me to connect to the internet to search for updated driver. Here I tried both yes and no. Then it will promt multiple warnings about non signed driver. Then a window asking if I want to install automatically pops up which I confirm. After that it does a system restore point and tells me it is done. Then the cycle repeats several time. I hope this is correct?
Everything installs fine apart from that multifunction (aladdin) device. At the end it promts that not everything installed and promts to close.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 07, 2019, 11:59:07 am
Somewhere in the Lecroy directories there is something like an 'aladdin driver installer.exe' (don't know the exact name or directory). Run that to install the drivers.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 07, 2019, 12:02:04 pm
Somewhere in the Lecroy directories there is something like an 'aladdin driver installer.exe' (don't know the exact name or directory). Run that to install the drivers.

I just downloaded the XSteamDriver file from here: https://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/download.aspx?did=11293 (https://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/download.aspx?did=11293)

That's all driver packaged in one executable. Or do you mean on the lecroy website?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 07, 2019, 12:07:39 pm
No. After installing the Xstream package the driver package is on your oscilloscope.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on December 07, 2019, 12:08:54 pm
The driver pack for these scopes was removed from the installer after version 6.x.  Install 6.x first or use the attached driver pack which I extracted from the 6.8 installer.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: DaJMasta on December 07, 2019, 09:43:11 pm
It comes up on the list as a single piece of software, but there is multiple download links.  The XStream software package comes with drivers for Magellan boards, which replaced the Aladdin boards, so the second set is needed and is easy to miss.  In the case of these scopes, the XStream package and the driver package are different installs and different downloads.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on December 08, 2019, 02:38:48 am
In the case of these scopes, the XStream package and the driver package are different installs and different downloads.

I have never seen the driver packages available as a separate download.  Can you show where they are?

As far as I have ever seen the drivers are in the XStream installer until version 8.x, after which they disappeared.  Most of the firmware download links will have two versions and the older version still has the drivers but it's a full X-Stream installer, not just a driver pack.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 08, 2019, 02:43:55 am
In the case of these scopes, the XStream package and the driver package are different installs and different downloads.

I have never seen the driver packages available as a separate download.  Can you show where they are?

As far as I have ever seen the drivers are in the XStream installer until version 8.x, after which they disappeared.  Most of the firmware download links will have two versions and the older version still has the drivers but it's a full X-Stream installer, not just a driver pack.

just select 7000A and it's right there
https://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/documents.aspx?sc=11

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 08, 2019, 12:05:37 pm
The driver pack for these scopes was removed from the installer after version 6.x.  Install 6.x first or use the attached driver pack which I extracted from the 6.8 installer.

Win xp pro, the chipset driver and the the 6.8 XStream drivers installed without and after installing audio, ethernet and grapics driver there were no more errors in the device manager. EDIT: I must have overlooked this late in the night. The ETH and the Aladdin Aquisition Device still show errors in the dm.
However, I still see no input and the serial number (it says: WM000001) is not correct either.

I then Installed the new v8 drivers which also installed without error. But still, there seems to be no connection to the scope hardware.

I also noticed that the sticker in the back says windows 2000 pro embedded. But I installed a non embedded win xp version. Does this matter?

Did I miss a step?
Is there a way to test the pci hardware?


EDIT: It works now. I installed the 6.x drivers once more. Now it shows the serial number, the correct option keys and the traces. Not sure if 8.x is worth it to me to try again by installing the new version.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 08, 2019, 12:16:46 pm
good question about replacing the embedded os with non embedded XP? I do have this question myself?


if you start with V6.8 it really should work, it did for me but my system had winxp on it to begin with...did you transfer the D: drive to the new drive? it's only cal data as I understand but maybe there is something else there that the scope needs? I never tried without copying that drive first.

still I would try to make an image/clone of the original hdd and see if it works...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 08, 2019, 12:30:42 pm
good question about replacing the embedded os with non embedded XP? I do have this question myself?


if you start with V6.8 it really should work, it did for me but my system had winxp on it to begin with...did you transfer the D: drive to the new drive? it's only cal data as I understand but maybe there is something else there that the scope needs? I never tried without copying that drive first.

still I would try to make an image/clone of the original hdd and see if it works...

It does now work with 6.x, I just installed that one again. Not sure how awake I was yesterday.

My original HD failed so cloning is not an option really...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 08, 2019, 01:40:01 pm
good question about replacing the embedded os with non embedded XP? I do have this question myself?


if you start with V6.8 it really should work, it did for me but my system had winxp on it to begin with...did you transfer the D: drive to the new drive? it's only cal data as I understand but maybe there is something else there that the scope needs? I never tried without copying that drive first.

still I would try to make an image/clone of the original hdd and see if it works...

It does now work with 6.x, I just installed that one again. Not sure how awake I was yesterday.

My original HD failed so cloning is not an option really...

Great  :D

can you please post your full procedure step by step? did you start from scratch again?
i did it long time ago and now i dont remember the details and never took notes  :palm:
i have used cloning on another unit after that but i don't remember the details of fresh installing which i did long ago...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on December 08, 2019, 01:45:59 pm
[attachimg=1]

Thanks, I don't know how I never noticed that link before.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 08, 2019, 03:06:49 pm
good question about replacing the embedded os with non embedded XP? I do have this question myself?


if you start with V6.8 it really should work, it did for me but my system had winxp on it to begin with...did you transfer the D: drive to the new drive? it's only cal data as I understand but maybe there is something else there that the scope needs? I never tried without copying that drive first.

still I would try to make an image/clone of the original hdd and see if it works...

It does now work with 6.x, I just installed that one again. Not sure how awake I was yesterday.

My original HD failed so cloning is not an option really...

Great  :D

can you please post your full procedure step by step? did you start from scratch again?
i did it long time ago and now i dont remember the details and never took notes  :palm:
i have used cloning on another unit after that but i don't remember the details of fresh installing which i did long ago...


I'll put together a packet with all the software here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gz5pbn4d98d980q/AAC1mgv4QijNTqCK_MtC9WZaa?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gz5pbn4d98d980q/AAC1mgv4QijNTqCK_MtC9WZaa?dl=0)

I did the following:

1. Install Win XP Pro 32bit via installation disc (I tried via USB for a long time without luck)
2. Install the Chipset Drivers
3. Install XStream, I first installed XStream, then the v6 Drivers which contain the Aladdin drivers, then the v8 drivers
4  Install the TouchDrivers. Set to: SC4 Serial, set com port *
5. Open the TouchDriver calibration and calibrate the screen

6. Split the disk into C: and D:  for the calibration files by adding a new partition on a Win10 system named "USERDATA", changing drive letter in XP to "D"
7. In XStreamDSO go to Utilities-> UtilitiesSetup -> Service and type in "9472" then click on the "Service" folder, "Aladin Aqu..." folder, "AutoCal", select all options and run auto cal. This should restore cal data and get rid of the no cal data error




* Lecroy hides the com port. To find it you have to:
Click Start>Run
Type cmd.exe in the textbox and click OK
Type set devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices=1 and hit ENTER
Type cd\windows\system32 and hit ENTER
Type start devmgmt.msc and hit ENTER
When the device manager opens, click the View menu
Click Show Hidden Devices




I'm tempted to just share my cloned backup but with the windows license and everything I'm not sure the mods would be thrilled about that link :(
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 08, 2019, 03:23:22 pm
It turns out the factory calibration is also in the EEPROMs on the acquisition board so you don't need to save the files. A self calibration from the service menu does the rest to restore all the calibration data.
if original owner did a calibration process later during the life of the scope in service, will it saved in eeprom too?
You'd have to ask Lecroy. I'd assume if you send it to Lecroy then they might update the EEPROM values if necessary.
It seems the self calibration data is saved in different files. The data which is in the EEPROMs is read once if the file is missing on the disk.

Could someone clarify this point for me?
I have a D: named Userdata and XStream created a bunch of folders on the next startup, however no cal files and I do not see where to initiate a selfCal?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 08, 2019, 03:33:39 pm
You don't need the D drive at all. And you don't need to backup anything. The factory cal data is stored on the acquisition board itself en copied onto the hard drive automatically. The missing cal data is automatically created from the data gathered at the first time the oscilloscope is started.

A self calibration can be started from the service menu. Service center access is probably enough.

9472 Service Center
19641 Production Access
11011969 Kernel Access
22872201 Developer Access
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 08, 2019, 04:45:06 pm
But its a good practise to have D: storing user's data. If you crash C, you dont have to think to recover the files, you simply recover using backup utils, format or clean install etc. My probe deskew calibration fixture is on its way, reading the manual, once we make calibration, the files will be stored somewhere in hdd, i think its wiser in D, so after recovery we dont have to recalibrate. How valid is this idea i'm not sure until it arrived, but its still good to have D for whatever reason imho.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 08, 2019, 04:50:53 pm
A self calibration can be started from the service menu. Service center access is probably enough.

9472 Service Center
19641 Production Access
11011969 Kernel Access
22872201 Developer Access
i never try this, but do we need to have extra equipments or fixtures to do self calibration? Maybe i want to do on my dda3000 since it lost its calibration data in hdd, now its using reconstructed data from factory/eeprom i guess. but i'm afraid if original factory calibrarion data is destroyed and i've done invalid procedure during self calibration.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 08, 2019, 06:07:33 pm
My Touch Driver seems to fail intermittently  >:( Auto detect in the UPDD settings worked fine before. But now I get nothing.

I removed the UPDD settings and tried to listen to the only available port (com1) with putty but there is nothing.
Is there a way to test that in the Service Menu?


Edit: Stupid me. Lecroy hides the com port. To see which one it is:

Click Start>Run
Type cmd.exe in the textbox and click OK
Type set devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices=1 and hit ENTER
Type cd\windows\system32 and hit ENTER
Type start devmgmt.msc and hit ENTER
When the device manager opens, click the View menu
Click Show Hidden Devices

For me it was com3
Now it works
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 08, 2019, 06:34:55 pm
But its a good practise to have D: storing user's data. If you crash C, you dont have to think to recover the files, you simply recover using backup utils,
A D: drive only makes sense if it is on a physically seperate drive. What you see is that the hard drive fails physically and you lose both C and D. The reason to put data on a seperate partition is kind of handy if you want to re-install the OS. In theory. In practise you can install Windows over itself or if you wish in a seperate Windows directory. There is no real advantage of having a seperate partition for data.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 11, 2019, 09:08:16 pm
Using ATI video card with displayport. Nvidia no, because big current and power supply shutting down from time to time.
Adapt connector to internal use.

Thank you for your detailed post!
Could I ask how you adapted the display port from the Japanese card to the mainboard without gpu? As far as I can see your mainboard does not have a DP option?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 12, 2019, 11:08:23 am
Has anyone ever tested adapting the "6Bit RGB" interface of the original display which seems to be a NL8060BC26-17 to somthing a more modern mobo might have?
Replacing the screen seems like a huge operation to me in particular because one has to mount the new display with a new frame...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 16, 2019, 06:52:05 pm
Obviously, as I said, here you cannot replace the fans with others that have less performance (if you replace them, then only with ones that are not inferior to these). LeСroy knowingly uses high-performance fans..


But I suppose that not everything is hopeless if you make use of larger diameter fans.
In this case, I recommend to look in the direction of the fan Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000.
This product is not inferior in performance ROTRON GL12B3, but you get 12.3 dB less acoustic noise.

If the data from their datasheets are reliable, then let's compare them:

Noctua has Max Airflow: 158.5 CFM (269.3 m³/h) at 3000 RPM, versus Rotron - 150.00 CFM at 3300 RPM;
Noctua Max Pressure: 0.414 in H₂O (10,52 mm H₂O), Rotron - 0.56 in H₂O (slightly more);
Noctua Acoustical noise 41.3 dB(A), Rotron - 53.6 dB(A);
Noctua Max. input current 0.55 A, Rotron - 1.30 A;
Noctua MTTF> 150,000 h, Rotron - 75,000 h;
Noctua Size 140x140x25 mm, Rotron - 127x127x38 mm

I have put together an adapter to get the 140mm fan on to the 120mm hole of the Rotron. Unfortunatly there is only about 30mm of space available for the air duct cone... Not tested yet so use with care:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/msg2831898/#msg2831898 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/msg2831898/#msg2831898)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 17, 2019, 12:24:23 pm
I found those Kingston sticks KTH-D530/1G but the bios won't even show up  |O Burried in the Kingston site it says "system specific", great :palm:
Now, what does work and what 1GB memory modules did you use?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 17, 2019, 12:27:40 pm
I found those Kingston sticks KTH-D530/1G but the bios won't even show up  |O Burried in the Kingston site it says "system specific", great :palm:
Now, what does work and what 1GB memory modules did you use?


I used both samsung and micron and both worked. there was a list of tested memroies on the intel website for this motherboard, not sure if it still exists. Also winXP will only recognize 3.5GB of it (I put 4GB in)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 17, 2019, 12:34:55 pm
I found those Kingston sticks KTH-D530/1G but the bios won't even show up  |O Burried in the Kingston site it says "system specific", great :palm:
Now, what does work and what 1GB memory modules did you use?

I used both samsung and micron and both worked. there was a list of tested memroies on the intel website for this motherboard, not sure if it still exists. Also winXP will only recognize 3.5GB of it (I put 4GB in)

Yes, I'll waste some ram but I want dual channel...

There is a compability list: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006686/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006686/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html)

However, all are <=512Mb  :-//

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 17, 2019, 12:56:05 pm
yes but they give you the memory configuration that 1GB stick must have. Also if you for example look at the 512MB micron MT16VDDT6464AG datasheet you will also see 1GB and 2GB memories of the same family in that datasheet. I chose the 1GB from the same family that its 512MB was compatible.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 17, 2019, 01:10:00 pm
I found those Kingston sticks KTH-D530/1G but the bios won't even show up  |O Burried in the Kingston site it says "system specific", great :palm:
Now, what does work and what 1GB memory modules did you use?
You have to update the BIOS to the latest version. With the original BIOS the 1GB modules I used wheren't recognised. BTW: I bought this Kingston module: KVR400X64C3A/1G. There is a more up-to-date compatibility list somewhere.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 17, 2019, 08:10:43 pm
I found those Kingston sticks KTH-D530/1G but the bios won't even show up  |O Burried in the Kingston site it says "system specific", great :palm:
Now, what does work and what 1GB memory modules did you use?
You have to update the BIOS to the latest version. With the original BIOS the 1GB modules I used wheren't recognised. BTW: I bought this Kingston module: KVR400X64C3A/1G. There is a more up-to-date compatibility list somewhere.

Well good idea. I updated from P16 to P25, still no luck. As soon as I put one stick in nothing will come up, not even the lecroy logo. Well, time to buy another 1$ ram stick  :-DD
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on December 17, 2019, 08:53:02 pm
Has anyone ever tested adapting the "6Bit RGB" interface of the original display which seems to be a NL8060BC26-17 to somthing a more modern mobo might have?
Replacing the screen seems like a huge operation to me in particular because one has to mount the new display with a new frame...

Replacing the LCD, unless for a higher resolution is of little use... and indeed, in any WP7K and WR6K, current LCD's won't fit without some butchery...
(I don't know much about the WP7K, but the AUO from the WR6K had specific mounting holes that were changed for good soon after...)
The problem with very old scopes is that they use a TTL interface LCD, whereas ANY more or less modern mobo will have at best an LVDS port... so unless you manage to find a suitable LVDS to TTL converter, you're stuck. All the ADD- and ADD2 cards also (to my knowledge) output LVDS signals...
Driving the original LCD with a modern mobo sounds like an engineering challenge. ;-)

The problem with the mounting holes is (by far !!) less dramatic as those you may face with the LCD's thickness... (incl. touchscreen !!), so choose a replacement very carefully, in particular as those 3:2 displays become scarce, the choice is often limited, unless reverting to used parts...


Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 17, 2019, 09:17:32 pm
Welll... the LCD screen in the 7000A series is LVDS. Still, converting LVDS to parallel is super easy. All it takes is a single chip from TI on a small circuit board.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on December 17, 2019, 09:32:15 pm
Welll... the LCD screen in the 7000A series is LVDS. Still, converting LVDS to parallel is super easy. All it takes is a single chip from TI on a small circuit board.

Didn’t know for the 7kA, as said, never got one... I just looked after the specs of the NEC screen mentioned earlier in the thread... and while it’s indeed no rocket science, I’m putting the fact to make a custom LVDS-TTL board into the ‘engineering challenge’ category... at least when the basic idea is to upgrade the mobo...
But agreed, a bit exaggerated ;-)

So if it’s LVDS, many industrial mobos should fit, and avoid the need for an SDVO card.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 17, 2019, 10:21:08 pm
The external output works OK. Everything in the scope is standard.
Are you sure that your LCD matrix is working? Or the problem is in the signal cable - over time they sometimes lose connection.
If there are more complex hardware problems, then the idea looks better - to replace with a new motherboard with built-in lvds output (along with the XGA matrix).
I dug a little deeper. It seems the cable from the AGP slot is carrying parallel video data (which is then converted to DVI by the SIL164 chip and then back to parallel by the SIL151 or SIL1151 chip). However, I don't see any video data when I probe the signals. It is like the card in the AGP slot isn't detected as an intel 'ADD' card to enable the parallel video signals. OR it needs a special driver from Intel to enable this feature. What I'm wondering: does a working Wavepro show the Lecroy startup logo? It could be a contact problem as well; it seems my 7200A has contact issues in several places. I want to reseat some chips on the video related boards and try again.

Well, the 7kA might have LVDS but the Wavemaster 8k and DDA5005 have the 18bit ttl interface.

One option would be to use either a HDMI to TTL board: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32697331666.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32697331666.html) Edit: 50pin / 24bit

There seem to be 40pin TTL adapters available like: https://cdn-learn.adafruit.com/downloads/pdf/adafruit-tfp401-hdmi-slash-dvi-decoder-to-40-pin-ttl-display.pdf (https://cdn-learn.adafruit.com/downloads/pdf/adafruit-tfp401-hdmi-slash-dvi-decoder-to-40-pin-ttl-display.pdf) Edit: Still 24bit so not usable for 18bit TTL (?)

Or LVDS to 40pin TTL ... But I'm a  bit confused, which mobo's have LVDS? I have never seen it so far but I used mostly consumer mobo's...(?)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on December 17, 2019, 11:56:33 pm
Or LVDS to 40pin TTL ... But I'm a  bit confused, which mobo's have LVDS? I have never seen it so far but I used mostly consumer mobo's...(?)

Many recent industrial mobo's like those from BCM (bcmcom.com), Kontron, Advantech, some Asrock, etc...
Kontron used a lot their 'proprietary' Jili40 connector, while many others use a DF13-40 connector, plus a dedicated backlight connector.
I like Kontron, but putting backlight control and LCD signals on the same connector is BS, knowing that most LCDs have dedicated connectors for both, this makes things unnecessarily complicated for the cables...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 18, 2019, 07:42:20 am
Currently I'm looking at an Asus mATX P8H61: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H61M_LX/specifications/ (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H61M_LX/specifications/)

I like it because:
- I have a unused i7-2600 and a i5-2400 in storage
- Lots of old DDR3 RAM
- Specs list a RGB LCD interface It's listed in the specs but I do not see it in the manual or on the board, hmm
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on December 18, 2019, 08:15:39 am
Using a standard mobo will force you to use an SDVO board, either AGP or PCIe, i.e. ADD- or ADD2 (I think all Lecroy SDVO cards were AGP).
And maybe I'm wrong, but the WR6K needs a 'legacy' PCI slot for the interface card, which the mentioned Asus board doesn't have...is this different for the WP7K ??

I've been using BCM boards in WR6K (like the RX67QV) and Kontron (KTGM45), but industrial mobos with legacy PCI are becoming harder and harder to get. :-(
 (just like SDVO cards, when using 'standard' mobos). I've no experience with PCIe to PCI converters (for using the interface card with PCIe-only mobos).

Last but not least, the USB chip (Cypress) on the front panel has serious issues with recent mobos (USB 'incompatibilities') on the WR6K, but I think that is different on the WP7K.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 18, 2019, 08:32:07 am
Using a standard mobo will force you to use an SDVO board, either AGP or PCIe, i.e. ADD- or ADD2 (I think all Lecroy SDVO cards were AGP).
And maybe I'm wrong, but the WR6K needs a 'legacy' PCI slot for the interface card, which the mentioned Asus board doesn't have...is this different for the WP7K ??

I've been using BCM boards in WR6K (like the RX67QV) and Kontron (KTGM45), but industrial mobos with legacy PCI are becoming harder and harder to get. :-(
 (just like SDVO cards, when using 'standard' mobos). I've no experience with PCIe to PCI converters (for using the interface card with PCIe-only mobos).

Last but not least, the USB chip (Cypress) on the front panel has serious issues with recent mobos (USB 'incompatibilities') on the WR6K, but I think that is different on the WP7K.

There are different PCI interfaces? They are not backward compatible like the PCIe 1,2,3 etc? The Asus board does have listed 1xPCI but I have not looked at the specifics. If so, what a pain...  |O |O |O Is there something specific to look out for?

APG is only needed for the graphics as I understand it? So I'll circumfent that with a hdmi-ttl adapter to drive the orig. NEC display... As I understood it, the touchstone APG card will not work with any other bios than the D865glc anyway?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on December 18, 2019, 09:35:00 am
There are different PCI interfaces? They are not backward compatible like the PCIe 1,2,3 etc? The Asus board does have listed 1xPCI but I have not looked at the specifics. If so, what a pain...  |O |O |O Is there something specific to look out for?

APG is only needed for the graphics as I understand it? So I'll circumfent that with a hdmi-ttl adapter to drive the orig. NEC display... As I understood it, the touchstone APG card will not work with any other bios than the D865glc anyway?

well, there are different versions of PCI (33mhz, 5V, then 66mhz, 3.3v), but cards had different notches to prevent mixing things up...
But again, the Asus link provided points to a mobo that does NOT have a native PCI slot.

SDVO is a 'standard', but you're right saying that many BIOS's do not support it... having some ADD(2) card alone is only half the way to a solution, hence my preference for industrial boards with an LVDS connector.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 18, 2019, 10:22:26 am
There are different PCI interfaces? They are not backward compatible like the PCIe 1,2,3 etc? The Asus board does have listed 1xPCI but I have not looked at the specifics. If so, what a pain...  |O |O |O Is there something specific to look out for?

APG is only needed for the graphics as I understand it? So I'll circumfent that with a hdmi-ttl adapter to drive the orig. NEC display... As I understood it, the touchstone APG card will not work with any other bios than the D865glc anyway?

well, there are different versions of PCI (33mhz, 5V, then 66mhz, 3.3v), but cards had different notches to prevent mixing things up...
But again, the Asus link provided points to a mobo that does NOT have a native PCI slot.

SDVO is a 'standard', but you're right saying that many BIOS's do not support it... having some ADD(2) card alone is only half the way to a solution, hence my preference for industrial boards with an LVDS connector.

Ok, I see. There seem to be different sub-versions of the mobo and I linked the wrong one, sorry: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H61M_LE_R20/specifications/ (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H61M_LE_R20/specifications/)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on December 18, 2019, 05:03:02 pm
Ok, I see. There seem to be different sub-versions of the mobo and I linked the wrong one, sorry: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H61M_LE_R20/specifications/ (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H61M_LE_R20/specifications/)

looks better   :)

btw, I think everyone here in the forum would be grateful if you'd post some high-res pics of the mob (the more, the better...)

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 18, 2019, 11:14:33 pm
Ok, I see. There seem to be different sub-versions of the mobo and I linked the wrong one, sorry: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H61M_LE_R20/specifications/ (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H61M_LE_R20/specifications/)

looks better   :)

btw, I think everyone here in the forum would be grateful if you'd post some high-res pics of the mob (the more, the better...)

Yeah well new plan, I found the new asus ones on Ebay a bit expensive for such an old mobo. So I found this Intel one:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Intel-DESKTOP-BOARD-DQ67SW-Q67-G12527-USB3-DVI-DUAL-PORT-Sockel-1155/362737831103?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.de/itm/Intel-DESKTOP-BOARD-DQ67SW-Q67-G12527-USB3-DVI-DUAL-PORT-Sockel-1155/362737831103?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)

USB3, SATA 6GB/s, DP, lots of PCIe expansion options and the necessary PCI port for the Aladdin card, support for 2/3gen i3/i5/i7, looks pretty nice.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 19, 2019, 06:35:50 pm
Will post my experience with 7300

I get one from Japan Yahoo auction
[attach=1]

Get intel dq77cp motherboard with last version that support pci, get i7 3.5GHz processor and 4gb memory, because of x86 cant use more.
[attach=2]

Slim cooler
[attach=3]

Draw and make frames for new display, back motherboard and floppy replace to usb3.0, Gerber files included, but maybe need some corrections ;)
[attach=17]
[attach=18]
[attach=4]

Back motherboard frame installed
[attach=5]

iPad retina display with frame adaptor. Display get from ali example link:
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32415898372.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f065118C8pk6T&algo_pvid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35&algo_expid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35-6&btsid=90077497-0744-4b4c-903f-f9fbd182eae7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_52 (https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32415898372.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f065118C8pk6T&algo_pvid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35&algo_expid=32f149ec-6e83-4e1b-ab07-f4843e3dbd35-6&btsid=90077497-0744-4b4c-903f-f9fbd182eae7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_52)
[attach=6]
[attach=7]

Capacitive touch screen ordered on eBay with usb interface
link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-USB-Controller-For-800x600-1024x768-4-3-LCD-Screen/201963612463?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)
[attach=8]

Display assembled. For displayport i use AbuzeMark minidisplayport adaptor board ordered on japan website.
link: http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=47&zenid=3lpf44jedg59mr38l9bri4m647 (http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=47&zenid=3lpf44jedg59mr38l9bri4m647)
[attach=9]

Using ATI video card with displayport. Nvidia no, because big current and power supply shutting down from time to time.
Adapt connector to internal use.
[attach=10]
[attach=11]
[attach=12]

So, all installed now, add new ssd 2.5" with Windows 7 x86 SP1, install last software v8.5.1.1, drivers for touchscreen, calibrate it and replace driver for work correct with hyperthreading cpu.
[attach=13]
[attach=14]

And add software options... ;)
[attach=15]

Finished.
[attach=16]

I like this build and will probably do similar. One change is that I want to use a smaller touchscreen (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013349786.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.de4e713a9YlFrI&algo_pvid=f23a6939-3e47-4d31-9115-11080c9b564f&algo_expid=f23a6939-3e47-4d31-9115-11080c9b564f-8&btsid=daba0ed0-6f18-4bac-b059-261c1a90df60&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_53 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013349786.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.de4e713a9YlFrI&algo_pvid=f23a6939-3e47-4d31-9115-11080c9b564f&algo_expid=f23a6939-3e47-4d31-9115-11080c9b564f-8&btsid=daba0ed0-6f18-4bac-b059-261c1a90df60&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_53)) which should fit better(?).
I have quickly checked the dimensions of the gerber front plate and it seems ok to me. Has anyone else used it?

I will do them in 1.6mm FR4, JLCPCB wants about 25 USD for 5 which is much cheaper than the laser cutting. Anyone interested in the CH/EU please ask I'll send you one of my spares.

I also installed two Noctua ppc 3000 fans (140mm). Right now it's a hack with the existing fan plate cut to size. However I will get another mounting plate also made from PCB material... Together with some PETG 3D printed airducts it should work fine. As I said I'm testing it right now. I have no way of measuring the airflow but subjectively I would say it's more than with the old fans. Might be because I noticed that the old fans run only at about 0.5A instead of the rated 0.65A (in my DDA5005 are 2x Panaflo FBA12G12U installed).

Noise reduction is there but it's less then I hoped for. I would say maybe 2/3 as loud and 1/2 as annoying to me because the noise is less pulsing and lower in frequency.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 25, 2019, 10:10:05 pm
So, I did the mobo upgrade on my DDA-5005 (Wavemaster 8500) and updated to Win 7 Ultimate 32 Bit.

- Intel Mainboard DQ67SW
- i7-2600k which I had laying around, only 2 cores running to reduce TPU
- 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 RAM
- ADATA SU800 256GB SSD

For Testing I installed a HD545 512MB GPU. Intention being that I could tap into the HDMI or DVI port easier than on the MOBO.

One problem I still have is that I get the error "3D Acceleration not enabled, might limit performance..." on XStream startup. However, 3D Acceleration seems to be enabled in the "dxdiag" settings... That is regardless of GPU / internal GPU...

Conversion was really easy. I did a clean install. Then installed all the chipset / mobo drivers. Then to install the xstream drivers I downloaded moded xstream drivers from earlier in the thread and installed them via the legacy driver install option in the task manager. I had to repeat it a couple times. A "PCIe Serial" driver did not install but it does not seem to be a problem. After that get the xstream 8.x from the lecroy site and it worked.

Mobo size & screw holes etc fit perfectly The clearance to the bottom is on the thight side but it just bearly makes it. The only real mod is the "front panel" pinheader which is wired differently as seen in the photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/154275690@N07/albums/72157712362680997 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154275690@N07/albums/72157712362680997)

So far I really like the results. For example the Spectrum Analyzer function is really fast, even with the 3D heat diagram is enabled. The scope really flies now. Also I get gigabit ethernet. Attached is a little demo of a remote desktop session.... I'm not even sure if I stick a screen on the front  :-DD
https://youtu.be/xfRqnBKkyDc (https://youtu.be/xfRqnBKkyDc)

The mobo just went out of support so no official driver download on the Intel site. I have collected most of what I found and what worked for me.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4q9f9xdvg9odt8r/AADC9-TL7kFSS44BZUUcOLBBa?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4q9f9xdvg9odt8r/AADC9-TL7kFSS44BZUUcOLBBa?dl=0)










Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Jens01 on December 26, 2019, 07:53:31 pm
I've recently acquired a Lecroy WR6030, which failed to start the Waverunner software. Did a clean install (W2000 -> WXP) and the unit since then worked flawless :scared:. Big thumb up for all the work already done on the forum, including the working touchscreen-driver :)

After a bit of playing around i found out this (non-a) 6030 supports 2x 5GS/s in interleaved mode, but the datasheet and the front panel suggest only 4x 2.5GS/s is supported. Only the 6030A should support this conform the datasheet. Did Lecroy upgrade these units by just updating the firmware? The unit is probably 'uphacked' by the previous owner as all the options are available including non-ordeable USB2 and ENET. The status menu does mention the unit is a 'WR6030'.  Firmware is 8.1.2.0, latest available. Did they really gave the doubled sample-speed for free or am i missing something?

[attachimg=1]

The oscilloscope feels a bit slow and the fans sound like they need replacement, so i will upgrade this unit to W7Pro, S775, core2duo E6600 + SSD if i can find the right Motherboard. The combination of right chipset, available PCI-slots, AGP slot and native SATA is quite hard to find.

The unit now only has some cosmetic 'problem', the previous owner lost or broken the original front-panel knobs ( |O ) and therefore the knobs are replaced by some ugly black-red universal knobs. And not one, but all of them. Does anyone know if Lecroy is willing to sell replacements or if the original knobs (or some universal white knobs) are commercially available? I've tried Farnell, Digikey and AliExpress but the combination of grey/white + D-shaft does not gave a lot of options.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 26, 2019, 08:04:59 pm
I've recently acquired a Lecroy WR6030, which failed to start the Waverunner software. Did a clean install (W2000 -> WXP) and the unit since then worked flawless :scared:. Big thumb up for all the work already done on the forum, including the working touchscreen-driver :)

After a bit of playing around i found out this (non-a) 6030 supports 2x 5GS/s in interleaved mode, but the datasheet and the front panel suggest only 4x 2.5GS/s is supported. Only the 6030A should support this conform the datasheet. Did Lecroy upgrade these units by just updating the firmware? The unit is probably 'uphacked' by the previous owner as all the options are available including non-ordeable USB2 and ENET. The status menu does mention the unit is a 'WR6030'.  Firmware is 8.1.2.0, latest available. Did they really gave the doubled sample-speed for free or am i missing something?

[attachimg=1]

The oscilloscope feels a bit slow and the fans sound like they need replacement, so i will upgrade this unit to W7Pro, S775, core2duo E6600 + SSD if i can find the right Motherboard. The combination of right chipset, available PCI-slots, AGP slot and native SATA is quite hard to find.

The unit now only has some cosmetic 'problem', the previous owner lost or broken the original front-panel knobs ( |O ) and therefore the knobs are replaced by some ugly black-red universal knobs. And not one, but all of them. Does anyone know if Lecroy is willing to sell replacements or if the original knobs (or some universal white knobs) are commercially available? I've tried Farnell, Digikey and AliExpress but the combination of grey/white + D-shaft does not gave a lot of options.

I would throw out the APG card and replace the screen and touch panel with something more modern and with higher res. Screen and LCD of this scopes really give their age away. Also, at least in the 7/8k series it seems to be really difficult to run the touchstone apg card on different mobo's because of the missing bios drivers.
If you ditch the LCD, all you need is a single PCI slot which quiet a few boards have even up to 3th gen i3/i5/i7.

Fans, not sure how the WR look inside or what fans are in there but make sure you replace the fans with equivalent airflow/pressure models...

Knobs: There is a guy selling 7/8k knobs on ebay. He charges 15 Euros a pice :rant:
I drew some 3D printable ones myself but the original ones have a weird temper shape and kind of a continious rounding at the top which I have not been able to reproduce with my limited cad knowledge yet :(
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 31, 2019, 04:00:13 pm
I have got a WP7200A in a pretty decent shape which does not turn on. When the power button is pushed the fans spin for a split second
and then it shuts off. I can also hear the HDD wanting to start. the whole thing takes less than 1 second.

When I manually pull down the green wire on the ATX power connector on the motherboard, the system turns on and fans stay on and i can hear the HDD spin but then nothing...nothing on screen and no LED on front panel light up, maybe there is a quick flash of backlight on the LCD but nothing else.

Any idea how the power switch is wired/routed in this thing? I can see it is connected to the display/fan board but it should somehow reach the motherboard.

Any idea where i should start?

by the way, when I manually keep the power running, I measured the voltages on the motherboard connector and all are very accurate and noise free. I don't think it's a power supply problem at this point.

happy new year  :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on December 31, 2019, 06:07:45 pm
Sounds like a bad motherboard to me -- might be a good time to consider an upgrade.  Look for any bulging or leaking capacitors.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 31, 2019, 06:29:16 pm
I'd connect an external monitor first to verify whether the motherboard boots or not. AFAIK Intel boards are not known for having bad capacitors.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 31, 2019, 06:52:25 pm
all caps seem in pretty good shape. nothing on external monitor either. I also changed the LCD with an identical one which is degraded but working, nothing changed...the thing is it does not even stay on and shuts of in a second. but when I manually keep it powered on
all voltages on the motherboard are ok and nothing is pulled down...is it possible that acq board is pulling down some other PSU lines and it shuts off but i cannot see its effect on the ATX connector?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on December 31, 2019, 07:03:58 pm
The MB is responsible for keeping the power supply on.  The fact that you can jumper it and all voltages read properly leads me to believe that the power supply is fine.

Could also be a corrupt BIOS.  You could try powering the MB with a known-good ATX power supply or try powering a known good MB with the scope power supply. 
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 31, 2019, 07:42:53 pm
The MB is responsible for keeping the power supply on.  The fact that you can jumper it and all voltages read properly leads me to believe that the power supply is fine.

Could also be a corrupt BIOS.  You could try powering the MB with a known-good ATX power supply or try powering a known good MB with the scope power supply.

but the power switch goes to the auxiliary display board (on the side panel) and that board is connected to a PCI card among other places, so my thought was that something is happening to the power/standby line in that path...

can it be the RAM stick? I must have a compatible RAM laying around somewhere in this mess to replace it...i cannot find it right now...but i dont even get the bios screen...its all dark and blank on lcd and vga...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 31, 2019, 08:07:22 pm
Again: what happens with an external monitor connected? That is the first step to take before anything else. Also connect a speaker to the motherboard to hear if you get any beeps.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on December 31, 2019, 11:31:18 pm
Again: what happens with an external monitor connected? That is the first step to take before anything else. Also connect a speaker to the motherboard to hear if you get any beeps.

as I mentioned before, nothing... all blank.. I need to figure out why it shuts down in <1 sec first. That could be the source of the problem
even though I can manually power on the system by puling down the green wire but if there is an underlying issue it may still not boot.

at the moment my suspect is that auxiliary display/fan board on the side where the power switch and also lcd are connected
don't know how to troubleshoot it yet...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on December 31, 2019, 11:40:04 pm
Well the best way ahead would be to test the PC part seperately. Take the cards outs and power the motherboard from a seperate PC style PSU. Does the battery on the motherboard still has some juice in it?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 31, 2019, 11:48:14 pm
I'd connect an external monitor first to verify whether the motherboard boots or not. AFAIK Intel boards are not known for having bad capacitors.

The caps on my old mobo close to the cpu were bulged...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on December 31, 2019, 11:50:49 pm
Again: what happens with an external monitor connected? That is the first step to take before anything else. Also connect a speaker to the motherboard to hear if you get any beeps.

as I mentioned before, nothing... all blank.. I need to figure out why it shuts down in <1 sec first. That could be the source of the problem
even though I can manually power on the system by puling down the green wire but if there is an underlying issue it may still not boot.

at the moment my suspect is that auxiliary display/fan board on the side where the power switch and also lcd are connected
don't know how to troubleshoot it yet...

If it is the power switch, you can manually bridge the two pins which provides the start functionality on the "front panel header" on the mobo.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 01, 2020, 06:00:53 am
how about removing RF/ACQ board from PSU and PC section, just to narrow down the problem and avoid propagation? just a thought.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 01, 2020, 11:52:41 am
Again: what happens with an external monitor connected? That is the first step to take before anything else. Also connect a speaker to the motherboard to hear if you get any beeps.

as I mentioned before, nothing... all blank.. I need to figure out why it shuts down in <1 sec first. That could be the source of the problem
even though I can manually power on the system by puling down the green wire but if there is an underlying issue it may still not boot.

at the moment my suspect is that auxiliary display/fan board on the side where the power switch and also lcd are connected
don't know how to troubleshoot it yet...

If it is the power switch, you can manually bridge the two pins which provides the start functionality on the "front panel header" on the mobo.

yes, that's what I almost do (I pulled down the green wire on the ATX connector) but I think the fact that the power does not stay on
shows there is an underlying fault somewhere and that can be the source of the whole problem. I dont think it's the power switch itself. It does its job correctly
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 01, 2020, 04:31:04 pm
I confirmed that the power switch actually shorts the two pins on the front panel power connector on the bottom left corner of the motherboard like a regular PC. But of course it shuts of in 1 second.

I could not find a place to connect a speaker. Then I realized that the board actually has a tiny buzzer/speaker on the bottom left corner (burried under the bunch of cables) but it does not sound anything during power on.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on January 01, 2020, 06:00:08 pm
Did you check the battery on the motherboard yet? Did you also try to re-seat the CPU?
Are all the jumpers installed? The J9J4 header should have a jumper on pins 1&2 for normal operation.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 01, 2020, 11:16:42 pm
I have been running around all day and could not sit down and concentrate on this thing... :palm:

the cmos battery was 0V which I replaced. Reseated the CPU and memory and also used anther stick of memory instead...no change...it shuts down in a second and if I manually keep it powered on, there is nothing on display (not even back light) and nothing on VGA out. no beep sound from motherboard either.

I found out that if I keep punching the power switch repeatedly and quickly it finally stays powered on and I can also power it down by
pushing and keeping the power switch. of course the result is the same, no sound and no picture...all caps around the CPU seem ok.

EDIT: and jumpers are all in the right place
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 01, 2020, 11:35:21 pm
Ahh, I think this looks very suspicious: there is an "empty" 8 pin socket on the auxiliary display/fan board (on the side panel of the unit which connects to the LCD)   :-//  It's marked U17. Is this normal?

My WP7300A is on loan and I dont have it with me and for the life of me I cannot remember if that 8 pin socket should be empty or there is an IC in there.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on January 01, 2020, 11:47:01 pm
That socket is empty on my WP7KA too -- I don't think it's a problem.

There's nothing so far indicating that the board you keep suspecting has anything to do with your problem.  Go get your motherboard to boot up with a regular PC power supply before you worry about the scope chassis.  My money is still on your motherboard being bad.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 12:05:29 am
That socket is empty on my WP7KA too -- I don't think it's a problem.

There's nothing so far indicating that the board you keep suspecting has anything to do with your problem.  Go get your motherboard to boot up with a regular PC power supply before you worry about the scope chassis.  My money is still on your motherboard being bad.

yes, I took the AGP card out which also disconnects that board video connector and ran on a VGA monitor only but no change...I am beginning to suspect the CPU itself...not sure if I have a spare in my junk box...but since there is not even a beep and apparently no BIOS running, I think the CPU itself is dead... I will take a PSU out from an old computer here and try to run the motherboard alone with no cards at all...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: tautech on January 02, 2020, 12:17:34 am
I have been running around all day and could not sit down and concentrate on this thing... :palm:

the cmos battery was 0V which I replaced. Reseated the CPU and memory and also used anther stick of memory instead...no change...it shuts down in a second and if I manually keep it powered on, there is nothing on display (not even back light) and nothing on VGA out. no beep sound from motherboard either.

I found out that if I keep punching the power switch repeatedly and quickly it finally stays powered on and I can also power it down by
pushing and keeping the power switch. of course the result is the same, no sound and no picture...all caps around the CPU seem ok.

EDIT: and jumpers are all in the right place
That screams of bad caps on the MoBo !
Had exactly this on a working (properly configured) PC and after a couple of hits from the PSU the bad caps would allow it to boot. Nearly burnt a finger on one and once all on the same power rail were pulled, checked and replaced the PC gave zero further issues.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 12:28:59 am
I have been running around all day and could not sit down and concentrate on this thing... :palm:

the cmos battery was 0V which I replaced. Reseated the CPU and memory and also used anther stick of memory instead...no change...it shuts down in a second and if I manually keep it powered on, there is nothing on display (not even back light) and nothing on VGA out. no beep sound from motherboard either.

I found out that if I keep punching the power switch repeatedly and quickly it finally stays powered on and I can also power it down by
pushing and keeping the power switch. of course the result is the same, no sound and no picture...all caps around the CPU seem ok.

EDIT: and jumpers are all in the right place
That screams of bad caps on the MoBo !
Had exactly this on a working (properly configured) PC and after a couple of hits from the PSU the bad caps would allow it to boot. Nearly burnt a finger on one and once all on the same power rail were pulled, checked and replaced the PC gave zero further issues.

mmm...sounds very reasonable. After I try the mobo alone with external PSU, if that fails, I will pull it out and check the caps.

Visually they all look good though. They may have killed the CPU  :scared: is that a possibility?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: tautech on January 02, 2020, 12:44:20 am
I have been running around all day and could not sit down and concentrate on this thing... :palm:

the cmos battery was 0V which I replaced. Reseated the CPU and memory and also used anther stick of memory instead...no change...it shuts down in a second and if I manually keep it powered on, there is nothing on display (not even back light) and nothing on VGA out. no beep sound from motherboard either.

I found out that if I keep punching the power switch repeatedly and quickly it finally stays powered on and I can also power it down by
pushing and keeping the power switch. of course the result is the same, no sound and no picture...all caps around the CPU seem ok.

EDIT: and jumpers are all in the right place
That screams of bad caps on the MoBo !
Had exactly this on a working (properly configured) PC and after a couple of hits from the PSU the bad caps would allow it to boot. Nearly burnt a finger on one and once all on the same power rail were pulled, checked and replaced the PC gave zero further issues.

mmm...sounds very reasonable. After I try the mobo alone with external PSU, if that fails, I will pull it out and check the caps.

Visually they all look good though. They may have killed the CPU  :scared: is that a possibility?
So did the caps in the mobo I mentioned but running a finger around them confirmed they were not !
IIRC they were on a 5V rail but of course the CPU is normally on a lower voltage rail/s however I'd be checking those caps too.
Do you have a thermal camera you can run over the mobo to check if there's some temps way out of wack/normal ?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on January 02, 2020, 12:46:42 am
CPUs rarely fail but they can't operate if the mb is holding them in reset or failing to supply the required low voltage power rails.  In my experience it's usually the motherboard that is bad and it's usually a dried out, shorted, or leaking capacitor.  Most other failure modes including bad BIOS or damaged CPU tend to require help from a stupid user rather than develop on their own over time.

The power button is just a momentary contact to signal to the MB to latch the ATX PS_ON# pin low.  If the motherboard detects any faults or fails to start then it may let the pin float high again and the power supply turns off.  The CPU failing to boot is probably a symptom rather than the root cause.  Probably.

Use the process of elimination:
Can you power up a known good MB and CPU using the scope PS?  If so then PS is good.
Alternatively, can you power the scope MB using an external PS?  If so then the MB is good and the PS, switch, or a peripheral is a likely culprit.

All that being said, I did some experimenting on my old MB since I've upgraded the one in my scope.
1) If the 4pin CPU 12V power connector is not plugged in then it will turn on for a second and turn back off.  No beeping, even if RAM is removed.
2) With the CPU 12V connector and all RAM removed, it beeps as expected.
3) With the CPU removed it will not even attempt to power on, even for a split second.
4) Of course there is a +5VSTBY LED that is always on if the PS is on.

So double-check the auxiliary 12V supply.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 01:15:58 am
all connectors are firmly in place.

I could only find the pictured power supply in my shop which was pulled from an old HP computer. Is it enough to power this mobo?

I took all the cards out and disconnected everything from mobo except hdd, ram, cpu and connected this PSU
as soon as push the power switch (or manually pull down the Vsb on the ATX connector) the cpu fan turns for <1sec
and shuts off and with that the PSU also shuts off and cannot be turned on again unless I pull the plug
(this PSU has a green led on the back that lights up when it is plugged in and that led turns off when I try to
turn on the mobo and then there is no Vsb afterwards until i cycle power)

Heh, now is it the board or is it this funky power supply?!  but the symptom is exactly the same with the lecroy power supply.
except the lecroy psu can be kept powered on if I pull the Vsb down manually. This PSU apparently shuts off and does not turn on again.

I will have to take the mobo out at this point and check the caps I think...

oh, when I had all the cards out and even the memory out, I also connected the Lecroy PSU back again and exactly the same thing.
Fans turn for <1sec and no beeps.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: tautech on January 02, 2020, 01:19:14 am
200W is pretty pitiful but might be enough IDK.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: ollopa on January 02, 2020, 01:52:29 am
Typically the power sequencer will hold the CPU in reset until all the monitored supplies are within tolerance or until it detects a fault and shuts off the main power supply.  I think what you're observing is the initial turn-on attempt followed by a fault and it giving up.  I mentioned mine does the same thing if the +12V is disconnected but in your case it's probably one of the regulated supplies on the MB.

The trick of looking for the hot cap works great if your failure mode is a shorted cap and the MB will stay on long enough for it to heat up.  I doubt it will work in this case.

Possibly a good time to consider upgrading rather than repair.  That board should have about 50 through-hole electrolytics which you wouldn't want to waste the money and time on replacing all of.  On the other hand you could try in-place checking with the old trick of using a signal generator and a scope to evaluate ESR:

http://electronics-diy.com/electronic_schematic.php?id=948 (http://electronics-diy.com/electronic_schematic.php?id=948) 
https://www.nutsvolts.com/questions-and-answers/capacitor-esr-tester (https://www.nutsvolts.com/questions-and-answers/capacitor-esr-tester)
https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/capacitor-esr-meter-circuit-using-555-timer-ic (https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/capacitor-esr-meter-circuit-using-555-timer-ic)
You get the idea.

Also keep in mind that motherboards are many, many layers thick with large ground planes and no thermal relief, so your old Radio Shack soldering iron is not going to do the trick.  It helps to have a variety of tools that can transfer a lot of heat and knowledge of a few techniques.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 02:34:07 am
Typically the power sequencer will hold the CPU in reset until all the monitored supplies are within tolerance or until it detects a fault and shuts off the main power supply.  I think what you're observing is the initial turn-on attempt followed by a fault and it giving up.  I mentioned mine does the same thing if the +12V is disconnected but in your case it's probably one of the regulated supplies on the MB.

The trick of looking for the hot cap works great if your failure mode is a shorted cap and the MB will stay on long enough for it to heat up.  I doubt it will work in this case.

Possibly a good time to consider upgrading rather than repair.  That board should have about 50 through-hole electrolytics which you wouldn't want to waste the money and time on replacing all of.  On the other hand you could try in-place checking with the old trick of using a signal generator and a scope to evaluate ESR:

http://electronics-diy.com/electronic_schematic.php?id=948 (http://electronics-diy.com/electronic_schematic.php?id=948) 
https://www.nutsvolts.com/questions-and-answers/capacitor-esr-tester (https://www.nutsvolts.com/questions-and-answers/capacitor-esr-tester)
https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/capacitor-esr-meter-circuit-using-555-timer-ic (https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/capacitor-esr-meter-circuit-using-555-timer-ic)
You get the idea.

Also keep in mind that motherboards are many, many layers thick with large ground planes and no thermal relief, so your old Radio Shack soldering iron is not going to do the trick.  It helps to have a variety of tools that can transfer a lot of heat and knowledge of a few techniques.

I also thought that it could be one of the on board regulators/dc-dc converters...we'll see

I know how hard it is to replace the caps on motherboards. I recently did that on a FIC503A (Agilent 54845A) and it drove me nuts...
for soldering I have a Hakko and it did the job on that FIC mobo albeit with a lot of pain.

for in-circuit ESR test, I usually use my HP 4263B (I bought it with recent calibration for $440 delivererd about 16-18 month ago ;D ;D)
with 20-50mV rms test voltage. Usually gives a very good indication but of course it depends on the circuit.
unfortunately in case of power supply filters when there are inductors in series between two caps you can never know what you are measuring exactly specially at low frequency ....
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 04:08:41 am
for upgrade, what motherboard do you guys suggest?

I am looking for something that fits in place of the original one with no tempering with the scope body and back panel, etc...
and I dont want to change the LCD or anything.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on January 02, 2020, 07:13:33 am
You'll need at least a MB with an Intel chipset and AGP slot so the display will work. The most ideal situation is to simply get the same motherboard.
Still... your problem could be the CPU (or the CPU got fried) so get a new CPU too.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 06:58:19 pm
is it not possible to have a non-intel chipset motherboard (but with AGP slot) that works with the original display?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 07:03:12 pm
I took the board out and tried to check the caps (at 20-50mV rms voltage and 120Hz/1Khz/10Khz on my HP 8263B)
but as I expected, it is really not possible at all to say anything because there are so many caps in parallel with many inductors in between
so its a complex impedance that always shows a negative (but very tiny) ESR which is meaningless although the capacitance value seems
ok but that cannot show the condition of individual capacitors... They are all Rubycon and Nichicon 105C as far as I can tell and visually look perfect to me...maybe one of the MOSFETs is open? but again it is not possible to check in circuit and desoldering
sooo many caps or mosfets is not worth the time and headache...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 09:08:22 pm
It seems the only way forward is to ditch this motherboard and replace it.
As I mentioned before, in order to replace the board I am not looking for total overhaul and a moderate upgrade will suit me the best.

Therefore, I am looking at Asus P5PE-VM  https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/P5PEVM/overview/ (https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/P5PEVM/overview/)
which accepts Core2 Due but only up to 2GB memory
and Asus P5P800-VM  https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/P5P800VM (https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/P5P800VM)
which I think will not accept core2 due (not sure) but up to 4GB memory. But it can support up to  Pentium D 960

both fit the scope perfectly and have native PCI and AGP.

Can anyone help me to choose, please?
Is Win 7 possible on these boards?

thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on January 02, 2020, 09:19:51 pm
The P5PE seems more modern and supports faster memory.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 09:37:35 pm
The P5PE seems more modern and supports faster memory.

my main dilemma is the 4GB vs 2GB max memory. which is better? otherwise, yes P5PE has better features like gigabit LAN and faster FSB

also is it possible to have win 7 with any of these boards?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on January 02, 2020, 09:50:57 pm
2GB should be more than enough. And I wouldn't bother with Windows7. You probably bring more bloat on-board.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 02, 2020, 10:18:34 pm
I just managed to do some measurements on the motherboard and the cpu is actually getting no power at all. that's why the bios does not run and no beeps whatsoever.

the source voltage on the mosfets near the cpu are all zero and some of them have 12V on their drain but some have no voltage on any of their pins!

maybe the dc-dc converter IC is dead ... whatever that chip is... or a mosfet is bad (not shorted because I checked them for short but i cannot check for open in-circuit)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 03, 2020, 12:49:45 pm
does having a dual core or quad core intel CPU actually boost the performance in Lecroy Xstream software? how significant is it if any?
for example does the waveform update increase or the spectrum analysis really gets faster?
I mean between a dual core and a single core cpu with similar clocks

according to this blog http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/ (http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/)
having dual core has a minimal effect.

can anybody on this thread who have used the scope both with single and dual core cpu confirm?
thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 03, 2020, 01:12:09 pm
confirmed, dual core is better (through "the feeling", its more noticable in 3D view) but... "minimal" is a subjective term, if you expect twice the speed then... no.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 03, 2020, 01:22:01 pm
no of course I dont mean doubling the performance but does the scope really use both cores to a large extent when it is put under stress like heavy spectrum analysis and other maths?
That blog that I posted earlier says no it does not. So I wonder if it is better to have a higher clocked single core than a lower clock dual core

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: nctnico on January 03, 2020, 01:29:16 pm
I'd go for the single core higher frequency. Unless you also want to upgrade the drivers to dual core versions. The standard Wavepro 7k software can't run on a dual core machine.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 03, 2020, 02:11:58 pm
I'd go for the single core higher frequency. Unless you also want to upgrade the drivers to dual core versions. The standard Wavepro 7k software can't run on a dual core machine.

that's what I was thinking...in that case I wonder what would be the benefit of buying Asus P5PE-VM instead of P5P800-VM because the major difference seems to be the ability of P5PE to run Core 2 Due and higher. But as far as single core cpus are concerned they are the same. But I can get P5P800 cheaper and from several local sellers unlike P5PE
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 03, 2020, 02:15:01 pm
I'd go for the single core higher frequency. Unless you also want to upgrade the drivers to dual core versions. The standard Wavepro 7k software can't run on a dual core machine.

but it will work, right? using just one core. because in that blog that I posted earlier the guy used the standard XStream software i believe.

I cannot seem to find any link to scope software/drivers that officially support dual core ?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 03, 2020, 02:48:49 pm
it seems i've keep the benchmark view of it... i think i've posted it somewhere here but dont know and dont care where it is, so here it is again...
1) 3D view ON, more than 50% means more than 1 CPU used.
2) turning OFF the 3D view back to normal view, ok near 0% CPU usage
3) 3D view and Spectrum/Spectrogram ON simultaneuosly... 65% usage
judge by yourself, so imho if 3D view is not your cup of tea, you only need normal view, then you will be fine without an upgrade. in fact, even if all views ON, you will still be fine, the scope will not BSoD.. ;) ymmv.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 03, 2020, 03:00:42 pm
Mechatrommer,

Thanks for the info. What version of the scope software and drivers did you use? Did you install a "dual core version" as nctnico said a couple of posts back? I dont think i have seen anything about dual core version of the scope drivers.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 03, 2020, 03:13:28 pm
What version of the scope software and drivers did you use? Did you install a "dual core version" as nctnico said a couple of posts back? I dont think i have seen anything about dual core version of the scope drivers.
currently ver8 i think, but older driver ver7 i think. officially? you cant find dual core compatible driver from LeCroy, you only can find it here in this thread afaik... i kind of tired searching it, maybe its in page 4-8...cheers.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: dgo_42 on January 04, 2020, 11:00:13 am
Hi analogRF,

I've upgraded my WavePro according to sergeyklenov https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2655453/#msg2655453 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2655453/#msg2655453)
But if you upgrade to the new motherboard without AGP - you can't use original graphic card and original LCD/touch screen (the original resistive touch screen is controlled by AGP card)
I've purchased 9.7" iPad LCD with display port adapter and with separate 10.4 capacitive touch screen. The only the problem, that 2048x1536 pixel LCD needs very fast (in 2D mode) graphic card
First I've tried Radeon HD3470 - by fast trigger XStream uses up to 33% of CPU (i5 3570) which is more then one core but XStream is unfortunately single threaded and most of 33% CPU usage used by system (red on the graph)
I mean it is used to transfer information to the graphic card. Now I've ordered Radeon HD 7790 and wiil try this card.

If you want, I can send photos of my LeCroy and detailed instructions.

Best regards,
Dimitrij
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on January 04, 2020, 12:18:14 pm
Hi analogRF,

I've upgraded my WavePro according to sergeyklenov https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2655453/#msg2655453 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2655453/#msg2655453)
But if you upgrade to the new motherboard without AGP - you can't use original graphic card and original LCD/touch screen (the original resistive touch screen is controlled by AGP card)
I've purchased 9.7" iPad LCD with display port adapter and with separate 10.4 capacitive touch screen. The only the problem, that 2048x1536 pixel LCD needs very fast (in 2D mode) graphic card
First I've tried Radeon HD3470 - by fast trigger XStream uses up to 33% of CPU (i5 3570) which is more then one core but XStream is unfortunately single threaded and most of 33% CPU usage used by system (red on the graph)
I mean it is used to transfer information to the graphic card. Now I've ordered Radeon HD 7790 and wiil try this card.

If you want, I can send photos of my LeCroy and detailed instructions.

Best regards,
Dimitrij

That's a big mess of a project that I wanted to avoid. Not worth it for me. So I ordered an Asus P5PE-VM and will put either a P4 HT 661 (single core) or a Core 2 Due E7600 in it. It has native PCI and AGP and is a drop-in replacement for the intel board.

In the meantime I think I have found the problem with the dead Intel motherboard (ADP3168). I'll try to fix that too. I just cannot let it go  :box:
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: hafrse on January 06, 2020, 04:10:53 pm
I did it last year. Install NL10276BC20-04 matrix instead of the original (NL8060BC26-17) is a very simple task. To do this lvds board 1024x768 30-pin scaler can be bought in China, but I prefer to to take out from the old monitor 15 ", which is sold for only $ 3-5.
So in the photo below you can see an example a more radical modernization. This mode 2048x1536 LCD matrix LTN097QL01 iPad Retina 9.7 ", which can also easily be installed inside oscilloscope instead of the original 10.7" NEC 800x600.
It is connected via DP (DisplayPort) interface and a discrete graphics card Radeon HD 6450.

I also last summer replaced the original motherboard WP 7300A to LGA1150, and processor Intel® Core ™ i3-4350, 3.6 MHz x 2 (4 HT). I spent a number of tests: it works faster than ever, and in some situations (in case of large number of computations) the waveform update faster to 4 times.

https://youtu.be/a_AFU8b6rm8 (https://youtu.be/a_AFU8b6rm8)

(http://i057.radikal.ru/1701/9e/c985e6882c04t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/fp/uxz6gepzla6l2)
(http://s12.radikal.ru/i185/1701/ad/a02f440625a4t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/fp/ymwj6rxfptu6w)
(http://s018.radikal.ru/i524/1701/d9/fee23950184ct.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/fp/hvgf9k51rna13)
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i715/1701/9f/658e48f52130t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/fp/dsbixmz95v15u)
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i719/1702/2c/108a8b3f8e7at.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/rkqeuqw15nvqx)
(http://s016.radikal.ru/i336/1702/7a/8a4f2589d9c0t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/lrrcoc815lnhr)

Hello,   I have tried the LTN097QL01  with the HDMI2EDP-4Kx2K-V4.0 controller board (http://www.lcdparts.net/Files/MS609LC_Datasheet.pdf (http://www.lcdparts.net/Files/MS609LC_Datasheet.pdf)) , works fine but the HDMI2EDP-4Kx2K-V4.0 does not save the settings which has been made in the OSD menus within the HDMI2EDP-4Kx2K-V4.0 (like the language, brightness, etc...) when the +12 power is switched  off! when I switch again, the default setting are there... Did you have better luck with another board?
Many thanks in aadvance!
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on January 13, 2020, 01:46:22 pm
I really love the Lecroy scope.

The DDA-5005 is awesome, however, only fixed 50Ohm input.

Simple hardware mod:
Bought a broken WP72000 :-DD

I'ts already up and running. Had a weird error where Win7k did not find a startup file. Cloned the HDD, now it works flawlessly.
 
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Shef on February 01, 2020, 08:38:43 am
Привет всем! ( кому интересно смогут перевести! )

Купил себе DDA3000,  в штатном Железе, не устроило ! Решил переделать все целиком, попробовал более 10 материнских плат и 8 видеокарт!
Могу сказать на 99% что лучше всего работает процессоры Xeon и видеокарты от radion. Все остальное с определёнными проблемами. Так например - видеокарта gf 210 под виндовс xp показала себя хорошо ! но не отображает 3д корректно ( на моем канале есть материалы ) https://youtu.be/BTzPW9kjiDU
https://youtu.be/6OQuDu-N2LI
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on February 01, 2020, 01:27:37 pm
Ну, может быть, вы могли бы хотя бы добавить перевод Google в свой русский пост? В противном случае большинство людей не будут беспокоиться ...


Translation (Google)
Hello everybody! (anyone interested can translate!)

I bought myself a DDA3000, in the regular Iron, it did not work! I decided to redo everything entirely, tried more than 10 motherboards and 8 video cards!
I can say 99% that the Xeon processors and the video cards from radion work best. Everything else is with certain problems. So for example - the gf 210 video card for windows xp proved to be good! but does not display 3d correctly (there are materials on my channel
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on February 04, 2020, 10:09:20 pm
Has somebody figured out if the resolution of the xStream app can be lowered?

I installed a 2k IPad 9.7" screen, works beautifully. Touchscreen is extremely accurate. However, it would be more comfortable with less resolution.
The windows resolution can be lowered but it does not seem to have an effect on the xStream application :(

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on February 06, 2020, 10:04:08 am
try restarting the scope/windows

Hmm, no that does not work. The XStream app just does not get the windows resolution settings but seems to set itself to the display setting.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on February 06, 2020, 12:36:15 pm
try to find setting in utilities menu, display option or such...

Does not look like it... Is there another way to set the resolution in win 7 then the "screen resolution" menu? Some reg settings? I mean XStream has to figure out from somewhere what the resolution should be?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on February 06, 2020, 01:35:35 pm
Changing the resolution to 64x480 via the properties/compability settings of the XStream app works. However, it is now 640x480 and there seems to be no option to adjust the compability mode resolution at all.
Somhow XStream ignores everything else and just resets the resolution as soon as it is running  :palm:

EDIT: Actually the scaling fits if I turn the resolution down to the original 800x600. However as soon as I get up in resolution at all the icons become tiny. The boxes shrink to a bit more than half the size.
800x600 is a real pitty for this 2k display. Althought I don't think there is any way to scale correctly and without mouse and keyboard the touchscreen becomes unusable.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lzqing on April 03, 2020, 12:38:27 pm
I got my 7300A this week,it seem the mobo is newly version and support SATA .Only the problem is CPU socket is 478 not 775, So i plan to replace it to ASUS P5PE-VM with E5700 duo core cpu.

Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on April 03, 2020, 01:21:04 pm
I got my 7300A this week,it seem the mobo is newly version and support SATA .Only the problem is CPU socket is 478 not 775, So i plan to replace it to ASUS P5PE-VM with E5700 duo core cpu.

May I ask why this mobo and this socket?
You have to switch the display anyway. I do not see this pci type graphic interface on your new mobo...
I would upgrade to something with a single PCI and a 1155 socket, install an i5/i7 and upgrade to win 7. Performance boost particularly for things like fft are substantial and cpu / mobos of this eara are cheap (100-150 bucks, used i7 cpu, new mobo).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on April 03, 2020, 01:38:10 pm
I got my 7300A this week,it seem the mobo is newly version and support SATA .Only the problem is CPU socket is 478 not 775, So i plan to replace it to ASUS P5PE-VM with E5700 duo core cpu.

May I ask why this mobo and this socket?
You have to switch the display anyway. I do not see this pci type graphic interface on your new mobo...
I would upgrade to something with a single PCI and a 1155 socket, install an i5/i7 and upgrade to win 7. Performance boost particularly for things like fft are substantial and cpu / mobos of this eara are cheap (100-150 bucks, used i7 cpu, new mobo).

why does he need to change the display? with P5PE-VM actually no change to anything is necessary. everything about the display remains as it is
with a moderate/good upgrade to CPU and FSB. All current PCI cards fit in.
New mobos dont have the AGP slot anymore and going the PCI-E way, needs a few other cards as I understand (a graphics card and possibly a LVDS adapter?)...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lzqing on April 03, 2020, 03:24:59 pm
You are right ! Keep 865G chipset since it is last one support DVO via AGP bus, that mean you can keep all the card include LCD and Touchpanel . 775 version support dual core CPU also good for this scope.

Best regards
Andy.Lu
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 03, 2020, 06:45:05 pm
You are right ! Keep 865G chipset since it is last one support DVO via AGP bus, that mean you can keep all the card include LCD and Touchpanel . 775 version support dual core CPU also good for this scope.

Best regards
Andy.Lu
Just for reference - the i915 chipset is the last, which supports AGP.  But I do not see the point of why you should strive for AGP. You just need to add any hardware to get the video output of the lvds (or parallel ttl for the old 800x600 display).

A good example for replacing a motherboard I mentioned:  HERE (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2656329/#msg2656329)
This is an AIMB-582QG2 motherboard that already contains integrated PCI, LVDS and DP ports.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: jemangedeslolos on April 04, 2020, 06:30:41 am
Hello :)

I just came across your talks and it's very interesting!
At what price did you manage to buy your used models ?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on April 04, 2020, 11:17:38 am
You are right ! Keep 865G chipset since it is last one support DVO via AGP bus, that mean you can keep all the card include LCD and Touchpanel . 775 version support dual core CPU also good for this scope.

Best regards
Andy.Lu
Just for reference - the i915 chipset is the last, which supports AGP.  But I do not see the point of why you should strive for AGP. You just need to add any hardware to get the video output of the lvds (or parallel ttl for the old 800x600 display).

A good example for replacing a motherboard I mentioned:  HERE (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2656329/#msg2656329)
This is an AIMB-582QG2 motherboard that already contains integrated PCI, LVDS and DP ports.

well, try to find that motherboard on ebay today  :o
but let's say some time in future I get lucky and I can find that motherboard cheap, can you please tell me exactly what other hardware I will need if I want to keep the original LCD (i dont like ipad lcd or any hd quality because I wont be able to see/read the screen. even at 800x600 I have problem)

my second question is, what will be the software installation procedure? is this correct: (1) install winxp (with multiprocessor HAL) (2) install Lecroy drivers and touchpad driver (which ones?) (3) install latest XStream software (4) workaround for front panel LED flashing

thanks
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on April 04, 2020, 03:40:45 pm
The native LCD matrix NL8060BC26-17 has an parallel ttl-interface 1 ch, 6-bit, 41 pins Connector DF9-41. You just need to use the scaler module, which is compatible with it and which you will connect to the output of the GPU (built-in MB, or a separate discrete one). Either use a discrete graphics processor with an integrated 6-bit ttl port to connect your matrix, or use a motherboard with an integrated 6-bit ttl port to directly connect your matrix.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lzqing on April 06, 2020, 01:30:36 pm
 :'(  I get problem with P5PE-VM mobo , the OS will hang on power off  screen, I tried both XP and Win7 ,and reboot is function properly, Anybody has same problem here ?  Maybe ACPI drivers was problem or mobo had hardware issue .
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lzqing on April 07, 2020, 12:54:58 pm
 |O It is CPU 's problem , if i use E5700 will be report uCode error and getting this shutdown issue.It is ok now since i change back to P4 CPU.
I Still working for install Xstream drivers for my 7300A with P5PE-VM base on Win7 OS, i tried many times and reading this post , i think it is very simply ,but  all the solution not working for me .
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on April 07, 2020, 01:02:40 pm
|O It is CPU 's problem , if i use E5700 will be report uCode error and getting this shutdown issue.It is ok now since i change back to P4 CPU.
I Still working for install Xstream drivers for my 7300A with P5PE-VM base on Win7 OS, i tried many times and reading this post , i think it is very simply ,but  all the solution not working for me .

that cpu is not officially supported by  this board. you need the unofficial modded bios.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: profanum429 on May 08, 2020, 10:36:34 pm
So I got an idea to try upgrading my 6030A scope; I found an AIMB-582 board for $30 shipped so I figured it was worth a shot. It's a Q77 board with 2x PCI, 1x PCI-E 16x and 1x PCI-E 4x. It also has a LVDS port on the board itself.

I figured the USB probably wouldn't work with the onboard ports based on other posts so I went ahead and picked up a PCI-E USB3.0 card with a 20 pin internal header and a USB3.0 20pin to USB2.0 10pin adapter cable.

I went with an i7 3770 (non K since I don't plan on overclocking it) and a Noctua 65mm tall cooler; first issue was the backplate on the AIMB-582 is designed to be used with an Advantech cooler; I bought a used LGA115X cpu socket + backplate off eBay for $8 bucks and replaced the Advantech backplate with a stock one and the Noctua HSF went on fine.

I installed 4GB (2x2 GB) of DDR3 and got the board mounted in the case with no PCI cards; second issue was the PSU 20pin cable, too short. I removed the PSU and got it plugged in so I could install Windows and ordered a 24-pin extender (20 pin extenders were a few week wait). Got the extender and everything worked fine.

At this point I installed the PCI acquistion card, the PCI GPIB card and the PCI-E USB3.0 card and hooked everything up. I also made an AC97->HD Audio cable to plug into the motherboard for the front speaker on the 6030A. This audio works OK playing music and stuff, but there is still some feedback, not sure what exactly is going on but I'll probably just disconnect it since I don't like the audible feedback feature anyway.

Got the latest XStream 8.whatever 32bit version installed and bam, everything worked great. Front panel has no issues plugged into the PCI-E card; even the thermal printer that my 6030A has works perfect. It's way faster now, since I moved it from a 2.8GHz P4 to a i7 3770 quadcore, so that's to be expected.

Cost overall was around $160 total, the majority of that being the CPU so I'm super pleased with how it turned out.

Overall, a few things left; I lost the CD drive since it was IDE and the 582 board only supports SATA, easy fix, I'll eventually get a slimline DVD drive to put in there for completion sake even though I've been using USB for everything.

The last big hurdle is the internal display; I've pretty much always used a 22" 1080p monitor stacked on top of the scope since I like the bigger screen so I'm not in a big rush to do the internal display. Reading here seems like the 6030 has a parallel TTL type connector; digging around on the back of the front panel on my 6030A I've seeing a TI LVDS receiver chip that is feeding the actual display connector. The old AGP card had a LVDS transmitter chip on it that brought out 3x data channels and 1x clock on a 20pin that goes to the front panel PCB into another 20 pin.

Looking at the LVDS chip that the AIMB-582 board is using and BIOS options it looks like I can set the port up for 18bit 800x600 (matching what I believe is coming out of the AGP card in my 6030A) so I'd just need a 40pin to 20pin LVDS cable pinned right for the A0,A1,A2 data and clock? I've not messed with LVDS before so I could be wrong, not sure if someone else has tried this on an 6kA model before.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on June 15, 2020, 12:51:54 am
It turns out the factory calibration is also in the EEPROMs on the acquisition board so you don't need to save the files. A self calibration from the service menu does the rest to restore all the calibration data.
if original owner did a calibration process later during the life of the scope in service, will it saved in eeprom too?
You'd have to ask Lecroy. I'd assume if you send it to Lecroy then they might update the EEPROM values if necessary.
It seems the self calibration data is saved in different files. The data which is in the EEPROMs is read once if the file is missing on the disk.

I think LeCroy (at least its US headquoters) save copies of all calibration data done in the last 15 years of so. So if your scope is not too old or it has been back to them for re-calibration, you can call them and request them to email you a copy of the calibration files. Easy.

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on June 15, 2020, 02:03:03 am
I think you have an SDA6000 (only 50 ohm inputs, right? no 1M). What version of the lecroy xstream are you using?
what options do you have on your scope? I have a 7300A but it does not have the "spectrum analyzer" package. of course I have FFT as part of math functions but in your last picture you have a dedicated spectrum analyzer tool. I am curious how I can have that on my scope. what option can enable that tool?
yes 50 ohm input. latest ver8... you can download from lecroy website (google XStreamDSOInstaller), but in order to add licenses, you need to do it in older ver7.x (i guess the ori xstream installer comes with your DSO saved somewhere in the HDD) after add licenses, upgrade to latest version 8, you can stick with older ver i dont find any problem, except i like the spectrum (FFT) (and 3D iirc) windows arrangement on the latest version. read this thread VERY carefully... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-options-recovery/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-options-recovery/) its not straight forward at first and learn the way how mr jack sparrow talk and think. really, you need to search here in eevblog for "Lecroy mod" "Lecroy dso" etc, there are many infos here.

Nice! So I went to this thread and generated a list of options for my scope. Can see "SPECTRUM" option available among many other interesting choices. Now I need to take a look at them. My scope multi-boots between Linux, XP and Win7 and I have X-Stream 8.1.0.1 (XP) and 8.6.2.10 (Win7) installed. Do you say that I have to go back to 7.1.x to apply the generated keys? Or newer X-Stream already converted my eeprom to different format so this keygen's is useless for me? Re-installing 7.1 is not a problem and is totally worth to try the new options...

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: sixtimesseven on June 15, 2020, 09:13:09 am
Slightly of topic but:

Could a WaveMaster 8500A owner take a good, head on photo of the label on the front panel. The "WAVEMASTER 8500A 5GHz 20GS/s" one on the front?

My DDA's label is messed up and I thought I change it to Wavemaster to reflect the software changes.
I can straighten slanted photos but on the web I only found low res Photos of the 8500 front panel which are of no use.


Edit: Attached sample pic.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: albertr on June 20, 2020, 07:47:46 pm
Overwriting the EEPROM in the input module does not significantly affect the bandwidth of the oscilloscope. But I found elements in the circuit, which change WP7200 to WP7300. Each WP7200 or WP7100 can be changed to WP7300. It turned out to be easier than I thought.

Nice! So front ends are identical besides a few passive components? Can you share the details on how to mod 7100 into 7300?
Does it affect calibration?

-albertr
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: BeckGyver on August 30, 2020, 09:20:38 am
Just got my DDA-5005 from E-Bay and shipped from Thailand. It was listed as untested and was running on the pictures taken for the offer. One price offer later I was proud owner of a DDA-5005A XL.

I did my homework in advance and found this awsome forum with tons of info and tools to get this units working again even if they are broken.
Just a short shoutout to this community: Thanks to everyone contributing to this topic and sharing their knowledge, experience and work. All this helped me with my first babysteps getting this unit disassembled and basically tested.

And this is where my journey starts:

I got the unit well packet with no damages on the outside beside on of the feet on the back. The Unit seems to come from Maxtor (last calibration 2013). The Unit was built in 2004.
The first external inspection shows no wear on the front connectors and no other damages from a longer storage. My mood was getting better and better.
Next should be the first Power-Cycle. This unit boots nicely and the HDD had no click of death so far.
X-Stream starts nicely too and this where I am not sure what I see:
All four channels semm to work and if I switch to 50R termination I get a signal on all four channel  :o
Channel one Sine, channel two sqaure, channel three rectangular and channel four puls. Alls signals overlay and have a base frequqnecy of about 3 MHz. Is this some Kind of reference/calibration signal ?
As my LPA-SMA adapter are on their way and will arrive later this week, i can not give any signal externally to the channels.

After opening the unit I inspected the mainboard and internal fans:
- Mainboard has some blown caps
- not a lot of dust inside --> nice
- after removing fan of cpu cooler ther was some dust so maybe it was cleaned one time.
- two screws are missing inside from the mounting plate of the two big fans in the front of the unit. Somebody was in here before.
Maybe from calibration ? :-// Maybe they have been replaced.
- PSU does not make funny noises so far (will be checked and Caps replaced)
- HDD has both partitions and it seems that all info is present on second partition

Maybe you guys can help me on my way pimping this unit and getting it back to old glory. First step would be understanding this signals displayed.
I hat a peek inside the Service Menu and hat a look in the communication errors to the subsystems and there were no errors. First thing in my mind would be that his is good news.
What should be the first test to find out what is going on or should I first go for hardware upgrade (Mainboard and HDD) ?
I will take some photos of the unit and upload it when I work on it next time. Let me know what to take pictures of.

Here is what I want to do on the unit:
- Upgrade Mainboard / CPU with one that has at least SATA (Not sure if i want to go for Mainboard without AGP and new display or "old" graphics-card)
- Upgrade to Win XP or later (not sure so far what will be the hurdels)
- Upgrade of X-Stream
- maybe try to get licences running
- Fan replacement of the old turbines

What I have in my lab:
- Spectrum analyzer up to 3.5 GHz
- Oscilloscove 500 MHz WaveJet
- Signal generator
- Counter
- usual stuff (multimeter, cables, adapters ....)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: analogRF on August 30, 2020, 10:49:04 am
If I am not mistaken, these scopes have a demo mode that shows signals on 4 channels. I haven't tried it myself before but I think it is in there
there should be something in the menus. OR maybe it is showing some reference signals that had been stored before.
Just put the scope in its factory default state

Isn't it already running windows XP? What is the motherboard model?

If you want to keep the changes to minimum (as I preferred) and keep the AGP and do just a moderate upgrade
unfortunately the options are very limited for motherboard. The only think I could find was Asus P5PE-VM
like this guy http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/ (http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/)

if someone can point to a better option for mobo (to keep the AGP slot and 2 PCI slots) please do
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: BeckGyver on August 30, 2020, 12:41:09 pm
I searched for the "Demo Mode" but could not locate. There are some Scope-Settings and I reset to those but had the same waveforms.
I assume these demo waveforms are stored data and not a generated waveform fed to the inputs. Therefore not a real test of the frontend.

The Mainboard installed is a Intel D845GERG2 - I have attatched some pictures.
I have an Asus P4P800-VM with 4gb and P4 3.2GHz HT available and would like to throw it in together with a ssd and go for a full re-install on Win XP. But befor I go this route, Prio1 for me now is to find what is wrong with it (and it seems so from my feeling now).

Unfortunately it has been Win2k on production.
I am not afraid of going deeper into the scope and change it to other mainboards and change screens as well, but would like to go step by step to not enter the rabbit hole with light speed.

I have access to all the files in driv D: and will go for a DD and recover to se what was in there befor it was dumped. I can also get the logs from service menu, please let me know which is the right to look for.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on August 30, 2020, 04:12:10 pm
1. In fact, there are a lot of motherboards that fit. Any motherboard with 1 PCI port will work. Do not look specifically for the AGP port - you can connect the LCD matrix in any alternative way. I would recommend a motherboard with built-in lvds or parallel (TTL) video output to directly connect your LCD matrix (depending on your matrix model), for example AIMB-582. By the way, this is exactly what LeCroy did in many of his other oscilloscope models. In this case, from the BIOS menu of the motherboard, you will be able to change the video signal format, for example, if in the future you want to use a 1024 × 768 matrix (which you will not get if you use the original video controller).

2. First, check the correctness of all supply voltages on the ACQ board. A large set of different voltages comes from the power supply, and there is also a number of voltage converters directly on this board. You must check each one.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: BeckGyver on August 31, 2020, 10:30:14 am
I would love to go for the better screen in the future and even get rid of the AGP card needed so far. For now I need to get this thing working properly and then we go for polish.

Is there any kind of Service-Manual available which gives an overview of the used powerrails on the acquisition board ? Does anyone know where the Monitoring ADC is located and how it comunicates with the Aladdin Card (maybe I2C address)?

I have added some photos of the physical aladdin card, should there be more than the "X-Stream DSO Devices" in the device manager or what is the Hardware-ID of these cards?

What kind of High-Speed-Bus is used by the Aladdin card to communicate to the acquisition board ? Can this bus be tested?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on August 31, 2020, 02:12:40 pm
I have not yet studied this architecture so deeply. It would also be helpful for me if someone could provide information on the above issues. For communication with the interface board, 6 Gigabit Ethernet lines are used, this is not a secret.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on August 31, 2020, 09:09:07 pm
I recently purchased a SDA 3010 second hand and after that i contacted the official Lecroy Support, whether they would be so kind to provide me Performance Verification Documents for this Model. The replied immediately and sent me the following 4 files:

'Chapter 3 - Specificationsrev2.pdf'
'Chapter 4 - Theory of Operation.pdf'
'Chapter 5 - WP7K Performance Verification revD.pdf'
'Chapter 5 - WP7K Performance Verification Test Record revD.pdf'

I won't share this files here on the forum but I want you to know that you can go and ask LeCroy support, they have been really kind and helpful in my case.

Another thing I want to ask if the gerber/schematics for SIL151 hdmi to lvds boards from wldshy are available?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 01, 2020, 02:13:24 am
I recently purchased a SDA 3010 second hand and after that i contacted the official Lecroy Support, whether they would be so kind to provide me Performance Verification Documents for this Model. The replied immediately and sent me the following 4 files:

'Chapter 3 - Specificationsrev2.pdf'
'Chapter 4 - Theory of Operation.pdf'
'Chapter 5 - WP7K Performance Verification revD.pdf'
'Chapter 5 - WP7K Performance Verification Test Record revD.pdf'

I won't share this files here on the forum but I want you to know that you can go and ask LeCroy support, they have been really kind and helpful in my case.

Another thing I want to ask if the gerber/schematics for SIL151 hdmi to lvds boards from wldshy are available?
before asking them.... what if our case on Lecroy support is not the same as your case? can we PM?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: darkstar49 on September 01, 2020, 09:55:47 am
I searched for the "Demo Mode" but could not locate. There are some Scope-Settings and I reset to those but had the same waveforms.
I assume these demo waveforms are stored data and not a generated waveform fed to the inputs. Therefore not a real test of the frontend.

The 'demo mode' gets activated when the XStream software can't access the acquisition board (when the interface board can't be accessed, the software won't even start).
To my knowledge, the only way to deactivate it, is via the service menu. Some have said that the demo mode might also be linked with the DEV option, but I've never seen anyone elaborate on this.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 03, 2020, 03:37:22 pm
Another thing I want to ask if the gerber/schematics for SIL151 hdmi to lvds boards from wldshy are available?
cant PM you further georgo, your inbox is full, here is the msg... (i think you need to post more to get more priviledge such as inbox space, not sure)

Quote from:  PM me
good to know thanks for the tip - are the gerbers for the SIL151 PCB available on the Forum? - i did search but I most have overlooked them? Do you know on which page they are?
to be frank, i dont know what is SIL151 :-\ until you mentioned it, searching in eevblog also returns none. so i guess you have to study that outside eevblog, ie google, sorry.. looking back at your post, you've been sent chapter 3 and 4 whereas me, they only sent me chapter 5 (and lots of *lss files), but i guess chap 3 and 4 only the usual user's manual and device specification thats available in the net right? not really crucial for verification process (chapter 5) i guess. cheers.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: BeckGyver on September 05, 2020, 02:48:16 pm
Thanks for this input, that fits in the picture of missing/wrong voltages at the acquisition board. I will have a peak after i finish moving in the new house with a bigger bench and lab to get all tools on the table.

I will keep you in stream when I start working on this beauty again. I also got the adapters today and will be able to feed son signals as soon as I get this thing back working.

I also got an Error log of the Communication Test from the service menu:

Code: [Select]
0 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest ------------------ Starting Tests -------------------
 1 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest Processor Speed : 2870456832.000000
 2 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest Device Driver Build # : 1605
 3 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest PCI Card Revision : 16
 4 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest ------ Checking Gigabit Links -----
 5 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest Gigabit Signal detected on AAC Link
 6 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest Gigabit Signal detected on CH1 Link
 7 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest Gigabit Signal detected on CH2 Link
 8 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest ----- Starting Readout Tests -----
 9 1.9.2020  19:43:29 Informational CommTest Testing Readout on Channel 1
 10 1.9.2020  19:43:34 Warning CommTest Channel 1 Readout Failed ! Error - 79
 11 1.9.2020  19:43:34 Informational CommTest Testing Readout on Channel 2
 12 1.9.2020  19:43:39 Warning CommTest Channel 2 Readout Failed ! Error - 79
 13 1.9.2020  19:43:39 Informational CommTest Testing Readout on Channel 3
 14 1.9.2020  19:43:44 Warning CommTest Channel 3 Readout Failed ! Error - 79
 15 1.9.2020  19:43:44 Informational CommTest Testing Readout on Channel 4
 16 1.9.2020  19:43:49 Warning CommTest Channel 4 Readout Failed ! Error - 79
 17 1.9.2020  19:43:49 Informational CommTest ----- End Readout Tests -----
 18 1.9.2020  19:43:49 Informational CommTest ----- Starting DMA Tests -----
 19 1.9.2020  19:43:49 Informational CommTest Testing DMA Readout on Channel 1
 20 1.9.2020  19:43:55 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 21 1.9.2020  19:44:00 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 22 1.9.2020  19:44:05 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 23 1.9.2020  19:44:10 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 24 1.9.2020  19:44:15 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 25 1.9.2020  19:44:15 Informational CommTest Transfered: 0.00MB at -1.#IND00MB/s
 26 1.9.2020  19:44:15 Informational CommTest Testing DMA Readout on Channel 2
 27 1.9.2020  19:44:20 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 28 1.9.2020  19:44:25 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 29 1.9.2020  19:44:30 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 30 1.9.2020  19:44:35 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 31 1.9.2020  19:44:40 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 32 1.9.2020  19:44:40 Informational CommTest Transfered: 0.00MB at -1.#IND00MB/s
 33 1.9.2020  19:44:40 Informational CommTest Testing DMA Readout on Channel 3
 34 1.9.2020  19:44:45 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 35 1.9.2020  19:44:50 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 36 1.9.2020  19:44:55 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 37 1.9.2020  19:45:00 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 38 1.9.2020  19:45:05 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 39 1.9.2020  19:45:05 Informational CommTest Transfered: 0.00MB at -1.#IND00MB/s
 40 1.9.2020  19:45:05 Informational CommTest Testing DMA Readout on Channel 4
 41 1.9.2020  19:45:10 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 42 1.9.2020  19:45:15 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 43 1.9.2020  19:45:20 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 44 1.9.2020  19:45:25 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 45 1.9.2020  19:45:30 Informational CommTest DMA Readout Error. Error - 79
 46 1.9.2020  19:45:30 Informational CommTest Transfered: 0.00MB at -1.#IND00MB/s
 47 1.9.2020  19:45:30 Informational CommTest ----- End DMA Tests -----
 48 1.9.2020  19:45:31 Warning CommTest Cannot Read Micro Version. Communication to the AAC Link is broken!
 49 1.9.2020  19:45:31 Informational CommTest AAC FPGA Version : 5.2
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on September 05, 2020, 07:42:00 pm
BeckGyver,
Can you show in which section of the system menu you receive this log?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: BeckGyver on September 11, 2020, 04:57:31 pm
As I am currently moving to a new house I can not fire up the scope to take some pictures from the Menu, but I will do so as soon as I have a bench available.
If I am right I used "Production Access" and was able to get access to the event logs. You can export the Logs to a thumbdrive and analyze them on a real PC. In addition I noticed that some logs were overflown (in 2013) and so I exported them and cleared it afterwards.

You don't need the D drive at all. And you don't need to backup anything. The factory cal data is stored on the acquisition board itself en copied onto the hard drive automatically. The missing cal data is automatically created from the data gathered at the first time the oscilloscope is started.

A self calibration can be started from the service menu. Service center access is probably enough.

9472 Service Center
19641 Production Access
11011969 Kernel Access
22872201 Developer Access

I just wanted to share some news regarding possible adapters for the BMA adapter on the front. There are some adapters available from Aliexpress which cost around 10 bucks and look pretty nice. I ordered two of them:

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32959937555.html

At the first glance they look pretty well made and I will have a test with the network analyzer at the new lab in some weeks.

I also attatched a picture of an original adapter LPA-SMA-A for reference ;-)
If someone is interested in building our own adapters please let me know. I also have some kind of galvanic isolation amplifier for low bandwidths in mind as well in the first place ( based on AMC1211x).
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 11, 2020, 06:11:45 pm
this huber suhner looks much neater without that panel mounting protrusion, but more than double the price... consider shipping cost from china which one is cheaper..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HUBER-SUHNER-22645644-33BMA-SMA50-1-199-UE-New/122016004771?hash=item1c68b87aa3:g:-3UAAOSwM5JZplW0 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/HUBER-SUHNER-22645644-33BMA-SMA50-1-199-UE-New/122016004771?hash=item1c68b87aa3:g:-3UAAOSwM5JZplW0)

since you posted it, this is inside of LPA-BNC (i cant remember if i've posted it somewhere)...
[image refer attachment #1]

although my measurement setup can be questioned (due to difficulty to mate BNC converter to my N or SMA port connector during SOLT calibration and... the VNA used is not HP/Agilent) but fwiw, this is its S11 return loss and |Z|...
[image refer attachment #2]
[image refer attachment #3]
[image refer attachment #4]

the original LPA-BNC and the above LPA-SMA is solid metal end to end, quite hard finding the right material to diy, but i've made the pigtail type diy... BMA-BNC S11 return loss and |Z| (comparison with blue trace as control measurement, ie no diy-BMA adapter in between of coax cable (Huber-Suhner) and snapped together terminator+to BNC adapters.)...
[image refer attachment #5]
[image refer attachment #6]
[image refer attachment #7]
[image refer attachment #8]

i dont have original LPA-SMA and am not intending to get one, $250 for just some plastics and metals is just wow, so i just get one LPA-BNC (which has extra 6 pins female interface at the front), just to see whats inside it, ie BMA/BNC adapter and  the 6 pins connection, and to get the mechanical dimensions... they just both direct connection without any special component inside, yeah those all are for $250 the cheapest (used) i can find in ebay that time. btw this is diy BMA-SMA S11 return loss and |Z|. (i forgot to make control measurement)...
[image refer attachment #9]
[image refer attachment #10]
[image refer attachment #11]

the measurement was made feb last year. the BNC and SMA connectors used are from cheap China (direct connection/soldered to RG174 cable) but the BMA male (originally BMA-BMA pigtail cutted to half) and female-BMA to female-SMA adapter came all the way from USA, Tensolite brand, fwiw...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: BeckGyver on September 11, 2020, 07:52:39 pm
Thanks for all this info on the BNC type. I got the SMA adapter on cheap and knew already that it would be mostly very expensive air, but was to curios to open it myself.

I see the case you printed for the adapter and it would be very great to get the these cases done for me as well. As I lack a 3D printer, I think I will have to order them somwhere. Can you share the source for the cases ?

I have found several sources for the adapters on E-Bay as well, but was not sure if they fit properly. For just testing it 100$ plus import duty is a bit over. Maybe someon can use the links better than me, just search for the items:
324044159816  https://www.ebay.de/itm/RF-Connector-Adapter-1-Pc-M-A-COM-AMP-BMA-Plug-m-to-SMA-m-50-Ohm-18-GHz-NEW/324044159816 (https://www.ebay.de/itm/RF-Connector-Adapter-1-Pc-M-A-COM-AMP-BMA-Plug-m-to-SMA-m-50-Ohm-18-GHz-NEW/324044159816)
312540391224  https://www.ebay.de/itm/Lot-of-10-AMP-222699-1-Connector-Adapter-SMA-Jack-to-3-5mm-BMA-Plug/312540391224 (https://www.ebay.de/itm/Lot-of-10-AMP-222699-1-Connector-Adapter-SMA-Jack-to-3-5mm-BMA-Plug/312540391224)

I have a Tektronix Y400 with both YBA250 and YBT250 modules in calibrated state, I will have a run if I can find them in all the Boxes. 
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 11, 2020, 08:35:59 pm
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Lot-of-10-AMP-222699-1-Connector-Adapter-SMA-Jack-to-3-5mm-BMA-Plug/312540391224 (https://www.ebay.de/itm/Lot-of-10-AMP-222699-1-Connector-Adapter-SMA-Jack-to-3-5mm-BMA-Plug/312540391224)
be careful, by the look of it, its different from BMA used here. about the casing, its still unfinished business (as many others projects), i havent corrected the dimensions for proper mating to each other, and now i have resin 3d printer which is much better resolution and tolerance. next plan is to print with it, but since the casing was dimensioned to my fdm machine, i'll need to do major overhaul to it to print nicely with higher res resin type. btw we are wandering off topic i was dragged. this is motherboard upgrade thread, maybe we can post in more proper thread like this... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/lecroy-connectors/msg2167048/#msg2167048 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/lecroy-connectors/msg2167048/#msg2167048)

and i just found internal picture of my diy BMA-BNC somewhere buried in this forum (below)... got dragged again :P
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/how-to-characterizespecify-impedance-of-50-ohm-coaxial-cableadapter/?action=dlattach;attach=655095;image)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on September 22, 2020, 01:41:16 pm
Hi,

I reconstructed the PCB made by wldshy. (cause I couldn't find the gerbers and i got no response when asking for it)

It is a small adapter board to interface HDMI to the NEC TFT-Display found in the WavePro 7k/SDA 3010/DDA 3000.

It is currently untested!!! (Rev. A) - I just send the board off to the pcb manifacturer and I will keep you updated if it is working[attachimg=1]

You can find the KiCad-Design here: https://github.com/ottingerg/sii151
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on September 22, 2020, 01:47:26 pm
Hi,

I reconstructed the PCB made by wldshy. (cause I couldn't find the gerbers and i got no response when asking for it)

It is a small adapter board to interface HDMI to the NEC TFT-Display found in the WavePro 7k/SDA 3010/DDA 3000.

It is currently untested!!! (Rev. A) - I just send the board off to the pcb manifacturer and I will keep you updated if it is working[attachimg=1]

You can find the KiCad-Design here: https://github.com/ottingerg/sii151

Is it something like that?
https://uk.farnell.com/midas/mcib-14/interface-board-hdmi-to-lvds/dp/2606863

I've used this board when I was modding WaveRunner 6100A, as the motherboard I've had to settle on didn't have LVDS output.

Fortunately, now with DDA-3000A I use Advantech with LVDS so new XGA panel has direct connection to it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on September 22, 2020, 03:37:45 pm
this board is intended to drive the NL8060BC26-17, which uses a CMOS-Level 3v3 Interface instead of the LVDS
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: lukier on September 22, 2020, 06:13:04 pm
Ah sorry. Then this one is TTL:
https://uk.farnell.com/midas/mcib-11/converter-board-hdmi-to-rgb-tft/dp/2522937
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on September 22, 2020, 08:11:45 pm
Or maybe this? )

https://www.aliexpress.com/premium/HDMI-driver.html?d=y&origin=y&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20200922120810&SearchText=HDMI%20driver (https://www.aliexpress.com/premium/HDMI-driver.html?d=y&origin=y&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20200922120810&SearchText=HDMI%20driver)
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on October 10, 2020, 08:32:15 pm
some update on my sil151 adapter.

Rev.A has the following issues:

*) HSYNC / VSYNC Lines were swapped
*) Hotplugdetection (Pin19) on HDMI was not connected -> Fix was to add 1k to Pin18 (V+)
*) Rev.A uses a single Powersupply (3V3) whereas in the original Design the TFT is driven with 5V Supply and 3v3 Signals. I did modify one Board and added a 3v3 LDO to power the board and connected 5v directly to the FPC Connector

(I attached a picture - this is how i inteded to mount the board, which didn't worked out)

=> after this modifications the board is working. However the FPC connector is loose and maybe I damaged the cable already so It is not yet working reliable.

---


After I getting the Display working. I swapped the motherboard with an Motherboard from a Lenovo Thinkcenter M92p - the nice thing about these motherboards they have the Q77 Chipset, 2x PCI and an internal Displayport. On the ugly side - Powersuppy, PCFrontPanel and FrontUSB Headers are not standard. For Powersupply I ordered an adapter kabel - for the headers I did swap the connector pins in the cables to match the pinout.

 I installed Win7 Pro 32 Bit and the dxl driver set (v3) - and on top of that the ZtiLecroyFPanelFix-2019-02-24.zip - apart from the touchscreen everything was working smoothly.

but .. I assembled everything back together and installed the Touchscreen drivers - and after this somehow the Frontpanel stopped working. No LEDs no response whatsoever. I tried reinstalling the driver several times (starting safe mode and removing the driver). But I could not fix the issue.

My fist QUESTION: When I try to remove the FrontPanel driver from the Device Manager - I do get a Windows BlueScreen. Has anyone experienced a similar problem?

My second QUESTION: I did install the 3M TouchPanel drivers working on the Serial Interface. They do work on the Windows Desktop but when I start the DSO Applikation they cursor movement from the Touchpad stopps during Application Startup ... after quitting the DSO Application the Touchpanel remains unresponsive until i reboot the OS.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on October 11, 2020, 07:07:22 pm
I just made a Rev.B of the Sil151 Adapter Board.

https://github.com/ottingerg/sii151/tree/Rev.B

*) Added Resistor for HDMI Hotplug detection
*) Added 3v3 LDO to have one 5V Powersupply for the panel and 3v3 for the board
*) Changed 2 Pin Power Connector to 3 Pin, added Sync detected Signal
*) added  Decoupling-Cap for EDID-EEProm
*) Swapped HSYNC and VSYNC Line
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on October 12, 2020, 07:25:59 pm
I've still got issues with the frontpanel on my SDA3010. Whenever I try to remove the loaded driver from device manager I will get a blue screen with "REFERENCE_BY_POINTER" Error. I did a fresh Win7 x32 install but the problem ist the same.

When I run the DSO Application  - the FrontPanel Emulation shows up - and entering the Service Menu I get Hardware ID = None and Led SlaveAddr = -1

Could it be a hardware Issue? Has anyone experienced a similar problem?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 13, 2020, 11:28:26 pm
not sure your problem is, but starting last night i removed my SDA6000 from its operation place into service place because it was giving me persistent random screen colors and dots and blue screens of death during probing few weeks ago. sometime i noticed corrupted/sliced text etc, i thought like display memory corruptions or loosen cable connection. last night i opened it up and turned it on (because i'm going to use it soon, so repair first) and the problem got worse, random color dots, and then squares and horizontal dashes and stripes everywhere during boot screen and unable to enter windows and then bsod, i was imagining the worst like damaged/incompatible motherboard and cpu (D865GSA + Pentium D 945 2 cored combo) i thought i'm going to need new more modern motherboard and will need georgo's hdmi to lvds adapter, or dso HW damage is also possible since i remember i lost traces plot on the screen and weird buttons blinks. i thought its going to be a long day or week for this repair project.. or if i cant find newer motherboard thats suitable, i thought i have to go back with the original motherboard that came with it which is highly underspeced from my current upgrade.

but luckily i got my mind settled down and do things rationally as its supposed to be, so i start with simple test first, one step at a time. i switched the 2x 1gb ddr memory that i bought 2nd hand about 2 years ago with the original 512mb ddr memory that came with the dso, turn it on and walla it works! i can start xstream app and get back my traces, no problem, no sign of corruption. turned it off and switched back to earlier ddr 1 piece at a time (1gb), it turned out one of the ddr piece that i bought is ending life, it went wacky and responsible for all the corruptions, so it goes to the bin and i'm currently on 1x 1gb ddr slot only temporarily, ordering another 4 pieces used kingston ram from eshop last night, better buy extra for spare parts. so luckily it was a quick repair and diagnostics. i was about to restore file system first but i thought file corruption is unlikely since i use new ssd. if i reformat the ssd first or worse dismantle the motherboard, really its going to be a long day of unecessary repair, just a lesson, the morale is, test simplest step first, dont go with emotion to deal with bigger thing, we wouldnt know... i think my dso is back again so far, hopefully for longer time. fwiw.

to georgo i hope you too can fix your problem soon. cheers.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on October 16, 2020, 04:13:48 pm
just a small update on my frontpanel issue ... and i am also asking for advice if someone has an idea how I should proceed.

After trying various things. I found out that the Connector J4 on the frontpanel board - was not seated correctly. Most likely the +3v3 was not connected.
This cable connects via a 16pin ribbon J4 on the frontpanel to J10 on the Touchstone-Board. This cable carries power for the frontpanel but also I2C for identifying the type of frontpanel. The same I2C also connects to the ProBus-Interface via J3 on the frontpanel board.

But the Data from the frontpanel is connected to the Aquistion PCI-Board via J2 - the 22pin FPC.

I do think that the MCU on the frontpanel is a MC68HC705C8ACFB (or something similar in a QFP44 package).
https://www.mouser.at/datasheet/2/302/MC68HC705C8A-1126873.pdf (https://www.mouser.at/datasheet/2/302/MC68HC705C8A-1126873.pdf)

with this knowledge i tried to make an educated guess that the Data is transfered over a SPI bus. If this assumption is correct than the pinout of the J2 is something like that:

1 GND
2 GND
3 GND
..
7 GND
..
10 MOSI
11 SCK
..
14 SS/
15 GND
..
17 MISO
..
21 GND
22 GND

----

To verify this assumption I started up the DSO Application and switched CH1 (via the Mouse) ON and OFF - because this would also toggle the LED associated with it.

So I started measuring the SPI Lines.

At first it seemed that MOSI is not working, cause I could measure activity on SCK and SS/  but not on MOSI. So I was afraid that maybe the SuperIO LPC47N227 was damaged. But after repeating the mesurement I could also receive something on the MOSI Line, while booting windows ( probably during driver initialisation) and application start. There are some bytes transfered and it seems that the bytes are always 0x80 (MSB first).

After start of the DSO application I can switch CH1 on/off and I do get activity on SCK and SS/ but MOSI always remains high.

I am not quite shure how I should proceed ... I am grateful for any Ideas, howto debug this issue further?


Remark: Pushing Buttons or turning Knobs doesn't result in SPI activity
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on October 17, 2020, 03:30:32 pm
Digging deeper on the frontpanel.

After writing my last forum post, i stepped back and reflected if I am using the wrong drivers. I re-read the forum thread and concluded that I have to switch to v2 of DXL driver set (with the unmodified frontpanel driver) ... should have read the forum beforehand ...

With this driver I don't get the Bluescreen problem on removing the driver.

However still no success - so I decided to have a look at the LED shift registers - There are two of them U118 and U2 both of 74HC594-Type.

They are connected to J2

Pin 8 .. LED_RESET/ (STR/)
Pin 9 .. LED_DATA (DS)
Pin 11 SCK (SHCP)

SCK is shared with the MCU SPI. For the LEDs 16 Bits are clocked into the two registers.


With my Logic Analyzer I can see that LED_DATA is changing just fine (changes on CH1 Led are reflected on the LED_DATA).
BUT LED_RESET never is released!!!

Again when I look at the whole sequence I can measure activity on LED_RESET during driver loading, meaning the output of the SuperIO is working.

So my next guess would be that the LED Panel is somehow not properly addressed.

Could somebody please be so kind and lookup in the ServiceMenu (Code 9472) in the frontpanel section what the value of "LED Slave Address" is? thanks in advance.



Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on October 17, 2020, 09:15:18 pm

Could somebody please be so kind and lookup in the ServiceMenu (Code 9472) in the frontpanel section what the value of "LED Slave Address" is? thanks in advance.
It should be so.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 17, 2020, 10:00:46 pm
After writing my last forum post, i stepped back and reflected if I am using the wrong drivers. I re-read the forum thread and concluded that I have to switch to v2 of DXL driver set (with the unmodified frontpanel driver) ... should have read the forum beforehand ...
if you are using multicore cpu in WinXP, you may search ZtiLecroyFPanelFix driver from ingowien in earlier page, his driver is much better and stable.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on October 18, 2020, 11:21:49 am
I did reverte to the original D865 and the Frontpanel is working.

On the new Q77 Mainboard I did try to fallback to Windows XP but the Front Panel Situation was not changing at all. So I tried the D865 to rule out that I damaged the hardware during the upgrade and the old D865 is working as expected.

I am sure that the Frontpanel was working (at least for one PowerCycle) on the Q77/Win7 32Bit Setup, because I remember that I was feeling lucky that the upgrade process was working so smoothly. Since then I could not repeat this behavouir no matter what kind of driver combo I was installing, reinstalling OS, falling back to WinXP. I did try to disable MultiCore and all the Peripherals in the BIOS, tryed with and without ingowiens filter driver and so on ..

My guess is that it could be some kind of ressource allocation problem - but I am not expert enough in this field to quickly find the issue ...

I will stick with the old Mobo and a fresh install of WinXP on a SSD for now ...

thanks for sticking with me.
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on October 18, 2020, 12:33:51 pm
I am completely puzzled right now -> I did restore the original state of the SDA3010 (D865 Mobo) but instead of the original Harddrive, I did a clean WinXP install on a SSD.

The result: I do have now the exactly same behaviour as with the new Motherboard (Frontpanel not working). I did notice that the used IRQ on the old Harddrive was IRQ 20, whereas now it is IRQ 22.

I did install all the mobo drivers (ethernet, gfx, audio, chipset) before I did install the LeCroy drivers, maybe thats why I get assigned a different IRQ.

Has somebody experienced a similar problem?


Something more: After this step I did a complete step back and booted the from the old Harddrive - somehow it is still assigned to IRQ22 (so it changed) and now I have the same behavioure of non-working frontpanel even with the original harddrive. (I still have backup images) but could it be that the IRQ Assignment is stored in BIOS?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Converter on October 18, 2020, 05:41:38 pm
There has never been such a problem even in the case of a non-original motherboard. Maybe something with your interface board?
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: georgo on October 18, 2020, 06:19:37 pm
thanks - I am currently rereading the whole thread and I think you are right - maybe a damaged FPC cable... I did measure the cable however in a strechted state lying on the table, because I wanted to rule out this possibility ...
Title: Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 19, 2020, 01:21:44 am
I am completely puzzled right now -> I did restore the original state of the SDA3010 (D865 Mobo) but instead of the original Harddrive, I did a clean WinXP install on a SSD.