Author Topic: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)  (Read 99175 times)

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Offline dxl

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #350 on: March 25, 2019, 06:42:17 pm »

I don't think that's 100% true.  DXL did create a new driver for the front panel to fix the multi-core issue, but I believe he removed some of his posts on the topic.  He posted three zip files to this thread and one of them did not have his version of the driver.  His fixes for the other drivers were just inf file changes but the front panel driver was original (the .sys file is different).

Perhaps some of the people having trouble are using the archive without his driver.

Multi-core / Multi-processor systems were in existence and supported by XP so it's not a problem of the technology not being in existence, but I agree that LeCroy only intended the driver for use on the single-core system it shipped with.

That's correct. The original driver didn't work with Multicore CPUs, so i wrote a new one. Sorry if that one was missing in the last zip file. I don't have the LeCroy anymore (I sold it and switched back to my old TDS754D because i was sick of re-calibrations all the time), but i should still have that driver. I just can't test it anymore. So let me know if someone needs it.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #351 on: March 25, 2019, 07:14:44 pm »
The original driver didn't work with Multicore CPUs, so i wrote a new one.
with ingowien driver, the original driver (front panel) will work in WinXP, but other drivers (fan controller etc) will not get resources allocated, but still functional. but to allocate resources nicely, your driver need to be installed, but Front Panel still nasty in WinXP if no ingowien driver. so both of your driver and ingowien's will make a nice combo for more functional drivers in WinXP/Win7.

Sorry if that one was missing in the last zip file.
i saved all your driver version, 3 of them. i used ver3 (the last you linked) to install, but at some point i have direct windows to ver2 to find a driver file for xstream dso device.

I don't have the LeCroy anymore (I sold it and switched back to my old TDS754D because i was sick of re-calibrations all the time)
sad to hear, the buyer must be lucky to get upgraded more modern multicore cpu and motherboard dso.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline ollopa

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #352 on: March 26, 2019, 04:48:00 pm »
The original driver didn't work with Multicore CPUs, so i wrote a new one.

Will you refresh my memory and give a little technical background on the issue that you fixed?  I remember there being a discussion about the problem somewhere but I can't find it anymore.
 

Offline dxl

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #353 on: March 26, 2019, 05:10:27 pm »
The original driver didn't work with Multicore CPUs, so i wrote a new one.

Will you refresh my memory and give a little technical background on the issue that you fixed?  I remember there being a discussion about the problem somewhere but I can't find it anymore.

The problem was that the original driver started a LED update function on each CPU. As the original Pentium used in the Lecroy had only one core and no hyperthreading this wasn't a problem. There was still only one function running to update the LED state as there's only one core. With Multicore/Hyperthreading this changed - there were now multiple functions running, each trying to update the LED state. As the frontpanel LED are connected by shift registers (iirc), this messes up the communication. So the fix was to write a driver that spawns only one function for updating, regardless of the CPU count. If the source of the driver would have been available that would have been a one line change - so it was a bit more work to reverse engineer how the lecroy software talks to the Frontpanel Driver.
 

Offline ingowien

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #354 on: March 27, 2019, 02:04:47 am »
with ingowien driver, the original driver (front panel) will work in WinXP, but other drivers (fan controller etc) will not get resources allocated, but still functional. but to allocate resources nicely, your driver need to be installed, but Front Panel still nasty in WinXP if no ingowien driver. so both of your driver and ingowien's will make a nice combo for more functional drivers in WinXP/Win7.

I'd like to understand that because the fan controller driver is always the same. It's the original Lecroy driver. As far as I've seen, dxl replaced the orignal Lecroy front panel driver with his own version. But all the other drivers are the same. The only difference I see is that the .inf file was modified for Win7 support.

So in my opinion the fan controller driver is always the same, the difference for XP might be that if it's installed with the original Lecroy .inf file, memory resources are assigned through the LeCAladdinMFResfilter.sys while with dxl's modified Win7 .inf file memory resources are directly assigned by the PNP manager through the VaryingResourceMaps. That's why you don't see the memory resources as the Windows PNP manager doesn't get them from the .inf file. Instead the are (invisible for the PNPMgr) passed from the filter driver down to the function drivers. Seems to be a bad workaround for non-PNP multifunction devices from the Win95/NT4/W2k days.

So the issue might just be that Windows doesn't show the memory resources if the old Lecroy W2k .inf file is used but the driver is working 100% the same. Or there is a slight difference if the Win7 .inf file used. In either option the same AladdinFanControllerDrv.sys is used.

The difference between dxl's driver and mine is just that dxl replaced the original LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys by his own version while I install a filter driver into the driver stack of the original Lecroy LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys. I still am not sure why dxl's front panel driver didn't work with my hardware, maybe my I/O board is slightly different. But you have to be aware that there have been versions of dxl's .zip files with and without his modified driver. If you install the incorrect one, you'll end up with the original Lecroy drivers installed by the Win7 .inf file which would explain the front panel issues. Just check the date of the .sys files. If LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys is from 2011 as the other .sys files it's the original Lecroy driver.

So depending on which of dxl's driver .zip files you use, (the one with the Lecroy driver and one with his driver), you might end with a driver setup the requires my fix or not. But the fan driver and the other drivers are the same, they are just installed differently by the .inf file in the Lecroy driver setup package and dxl's modified Win7 .inf file. I just was too lazy to find out how to modify the .inf file to include my filter driver, that's why I used the driver installer to add or remove the filter driver.

That would be my point of view, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd really be interested to find what the issue is.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #355 on: March 27, 2019, 03:18:21 am »
I still am not sure why dxl's front panel driver didn't work with my hardware, maybe my I/O board is slightly different. But you have to be aware that there have been versions of dxl's .zip files with and without his modified driver. If you install the incorrect one, you'll end up with the original Lecroy drivers installed by the Win7 .inf file which would explain the front panel issues. Just check the date of the .sys files. If LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys is from 2011 as the other .sys files it's the original Lecroy driver.
just checked all dxl version 1,2,3 (all linked in page 4). version 3 contains LecAladdinFrontPanel.sys modified on 25/2/2017, version 2 (original driver 2/7/2011), version 1 (4/7/2016), the rest of *.sys are original from 2011, except almost all *.inf are modified 2017. when i tried to install dxl driver into my dso, i used version 3, when all drivers installed, WinXP asked again (2nd time) for xstream dso device, if i point to version 3, WinXP seemed to refuse and keep ask again and again, until i point to version 2, after that reboot, printer port driver iirc will problem, i have to switch to oem16.inf iirc instead of oem20.inf to make it correct (or vice versa cant remember i just try and error), and then everything works ok, but front panel still nasty (your earlier filter driver will get overwritten i have to reinstall again). so thats what happened, the detailes inside driver/inf/sys modification i'm a total clueless. after reinstall your driver, everything ok, resources allocation visible, and front panel works flawless, thats all i care. so both of your driver and dxl will make charmfull to the dso. cheers.

So in my opinion the fan controller driver is always the same, the difference for XP might be that if it's installed with the original Lecroy .inf file, memory resources are assigned through the LeCAladdinMFResfilter.sys while with dxl's modified Win7 .inf file memory resources are directly assigned by the PNP manager through the VaryingResourceMaps. That's why you don't see the memory resources as the Windows PNP manager doesn't get them from the .inf file. Instead the are (invisible for the PNPMgr) passed from the filter driver down to the function drivers. Seems to be a bad workaround for non-PNP multifunction devices from the Win95/NT4/W2k days.
if you are correct, then dxl driver is not necessary to install and dso/fan still works ok with your driver alone, since original xstream dso device is installed correctly in WinXP. so i saved both OS version with and without dxl driver. i defaulted to using both of your drivers, in case something weird happen i'll try OS version with your driver alone. seeing resource allocation in device manager will make feeling a bit happy, but i dont know, maybe just placebo effect. fwiw...
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #356 on: March 27, 2019, 01:20:05 pm »
First I have to say, this is a great thread. Thanks to all contributors.

My WaveMaster 8600A is running fine now, the oscillator adjust did the fix. I really like the scope, for me the user interface is very intuitive. Like it more than my new Keysight.

Now I did the upgrade, with a Gigabyte H97M-D3H board (it is similar to converter's ASRock H97M), CPI Intel i3 4360 (3.7GHz), Windows 7 32-bit, Intel 520 SSD.
Original it had only a Pentium III. Now it is super-fast, a joy to operate, no delays, fast boot/startup.

For my machine, the dxl front panel driver did not work, I had to use the original one of dxl's 2nd zip, and ingowien's filter driver.

But in the device manager, there is a COM3 device, which does not load properly, see image. Is it on the LeCroy PCI Card? The 10-pin connector on top?
My touch panel controller was connected to COM1 of the Intel Pentium III motherboard, and is now connected to COM1 of the H97M board.
Any suggestions about this?

Edit: As You can see, on my acquisition board, all parts for the GPIB interface are populated, except the connector. Is there any use in haveing GPIB present?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 01:35:32 pm by pquadrat »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #357 on: March 27, 2019, 02:19:47 pm »
But in the device manager, there is a COM3 device, which does not load properly,
click driver on top tab and update driver button. after proper "questionaires" answering, if you like me, you'll be asked 2 or more driver version. try them all if one of them is working. if none working, try search in version 3 driver. ymmv.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline dietert1

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #358 on: March 27, 2019, 05:20:07 pm »
I got a similar confusion there. That serial interface could be installed as a PNP driver or using the Lecroy driver with the Lecroy MF filter driver. In my case it was installed as PNP driver (using dxl's inf files), but on XP startup there are messages about "new hardware found". Anyway the touch panel of our SDA6020 works normal with the PNP driver.

Regards, Dieter
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #359 on: March 27, 2019, 08:02:52 pm »

Edit: As You can see, on my acquisition board, all parts for the GPIB interface are populated, except the connector. Is there any use in haveing GPIB present?

In any case, I would not want to use it. The fact is that the PCI bus is the bottleneck in the process of transferring information from the ACQ board to the processor ( this has already been mentioned here ). And the additional load on this port leads to a decrease in the frequency of updating waveforms. This was true until the moment when LeCroy began using PCI-e for this purpose instead of the old PCI.

that sounds super tedious esp the learning how to speak and read chinese. maybe you can be a supplier for worldwide? otherwise, the supply from digikey/mouser/element14 will make any derivative product using that connector quite expensive.
 
Unfortunately, there are problems with this.
My forwarding company can deliver from China only to Ukraine. This means that I will receive the goods in Ukraine, and then I need to think of a way to deliver again outside Ukraine. And as I wrote, these trading platforms deliver only within mainland China.
If you personally need to get something from China, you can show me the desired item and I will do it prime cost, but only for you personally.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 12:43:16 am by Converter »
 
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #360 on: March 28, 2019, 04:29:19 am »
Edit: As You can see, on my acquisition board, all parts for the GPIB interface are populated, except the connector. Is there any use in haveing GPIB present?
can you get closer snapshoot picture of the ICs involved? in case someone want to do the mod. maybe adding those chips, enabling GPIB in SW will do the trick? about bottlenecking the card, let the modder decide if update rate is more important, or GPIB functionality is.

If you personally need to get something from China, you can show me the desired item and I will do it prime cost, but only for you personally.
i thought china is "export friendly", but thanks for your offer thats very generous of you.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline dietert1

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #361 on: March 28, 2019, 07:22:05 am »
In our SDA6020 the ICs on pquadrats photo close to the missing GPIB connector are missing, too.

In our machine the PCI board looks very similar otherwise and the touch panel serial connection is on J3. It's a 10 pole flat cable running to IO board J5. XP has a device COM3 with hardware device "MF...LecSerPort" that runs with microsoft drivers serenum.sys and serial.sys. There is another hardware device "MF...LecSerialPort" that remained uninstalled (yellow mark) and generates new hardware found messages.

Regards, Dieter
 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #362 on: March 28, 2019, 08:33:42 am »
can you get closer snapshoot picture of the ICs involved? in case someone want to do the mod. maybe adding those chips, enabling GPIB in SW will do the trick? about bottlenecking the card, let the modder decide if update rate is more important, or GPIB functionality is.

I think U16 should be an crystal oscillator.
 
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #363 on: March 28, 2019, 02:43:21 pm »
can you get closer snapshoot picture of the ICs involved? in case someone want to do the mod. maybe adding those chips, enabling GPIB in SW will do the trick? about bottlenecking the card, let the modder decide if update rate is more important, or GPIB functionality is.
I think U16 should be an crystal oscillator.
thanks for taking the trouble dismantling it, i thought using camera zoom without removing the board can be done. thanks, researching it, if i'm not mistaken they are...

TNT4882 - http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets2/20/206933_1.pdf
74LVTH16245 - http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/88816.pdf
SN74LVC126A - http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lvc126a.pdf

these 3 big chips are missing in my board, and also on previous DDA5005...
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline dsliwa

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #364 on: March 29, 2019, 05:41:10 pm »
I've also upgraded HW on my DDA-3000. However I've recently tried using Sequence sampling, and I'm having trouble using it with the rs232 decoder.
I'd expect the scope to decode every character in the trace, instead it only decodes the last one and the overlay corresponds to a single capture (see attachment).
I've tried the same thing with a wavemaster 8zi it decoded all characters and table even included segment numbers.
Is it a know 7ka/dda-3000 issue or is that a problem of my motherboard/cpu upgrade? Or maybe I'm missing an option?
 

Offline ollopa

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #365 on: March 30, 2019, 04:24:44 am »
The newer scopes have hardware-assisted protocol decode and triggering whereas these scopes do it all in software after the segments are captured.  The functionality you describe to automatically perform decode on each segment and combine them in the table only appears in the documentation for the newer scopes so it may not be available on the WP7KA platform.  I say that because I think it may rely on serial triggering on the beginning of any packet and this hardware doesn't have serial triggering.

You can improve RS232/UART decoding performance by:
1) Change the Mode Setup from Byte to Message Frame and set the Interframe Time to to a reasonable pause time between messages.  (Decodes multiple bytes per segment)
2) You can decode 4 messages simultaneously (one per segment) by assigning a segment to a function and then using the function as the protocol decode source

 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #366 on: April 01, 2019, 09:00:25 pm »
I think that everyone is familiar with the noise from the LeCroy power supplies, which occurs as soon as you turn on the power cord into the outlet. I decided to investigate this source of noise.
I doused all transformers with epoxy varnish, because the factory fixing glue was dry and cracked and the cores began to hang loose.

However, after this, noise did not become quieter. Then I used a pipe that I brought to my ear and studied the source of the noise. You will be surprised, but this turned out to be VISHAY F1773-447-2011 0.47M 253V film capacitors.

I replaced them with some polypropylene capacitors that I had in stock, which are made in tight sealed enclosures. Now the noise is almost completely stopped.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 09:09:52 pm by Converter »
 
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Offline DaJMasta

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #367 on: April 01, 2019, 09:11:40 pm »
You mean the click?  I always thought there was some relay kicking in after the standby power was active and stable.
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #368 on: April 01, 2019, 10:11:20 pm »
No, I mean the constant noise from the power supply, about which everyone writes and which arises immediately, as soon as you insert the plug into the outlet. If you do not suffer from bad hearing, then this noise will annoy you. These noisy capacitors function as a power filter.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 10:18:13 pm by Converter »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #369 on: April 01, 2019, 11:44:08 pm »
the buzz, or rattling. i can hear it very dimly when turned on, after dso operation for sometime, turned off, and this buzzing can get a bit louder. thanks converter for doing the work, i mean to do the investigation as well, but i dont think its worth the trouble, psu is the innest core section thats hardest to dismantle, and then, dont fix it if it aint broke rule. btw, it maybe a good idea along the way to get a picture on what power elements used in the psu (those big mosfets) so we can estimate its max power on each rail, so we can know how much additional load we can put safely to it. ymmv.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #370 on: April 02, 2019, 01:04:26 am »
At the moment I have already installed the power supply back to the oscilloscope. I had to re-wind the one burned-out choke and replace the exploded capacitor. There was an unstable voltage of -13.5V, and because of this, the offset floated in all channels. Removing the power supply - a troublesome process.
 

Offline ollopa

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #371 on: April 02, 2019, 01:07:37 am »
I haven't noticed any noise from my power supplies but I'm not surprised at all that your culprit was the capacitors.  The more experienced hardware people around me always blame the smaller value capacitors for our noisy switching supplies and now I'm prejudiced against capacitors too :D
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #372 on: April 02, 2019, 01:22:21 am »
About 9 oscilloscopes by LeCroy WP and WM I had in my hands and they all have the same noisy power supplies (I have a 50Hz mains frequency 220V, maybe this also affects the noise level?).
 

Offline ollopa

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #373 on: April 02, 2019, 01:29:59 am »
I'm 120V@60Hz with two quiet (to me) LeCroy scopes.  I woudln't think that 50Hz vs 60Hz would really make a difference in the switching frequency of the supply and usually supplies with a wide input voltage range will first step up to a common high voltage and then step down so the second half of the supply should operate the same.

Perhaps I'm just going deaf :D  I wish I had the equipment to switch line voltages as an experiment.  :(
 

Offline Converter

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Re: Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)
« Reply #374 on: April 02, 2019, 02:33:08 am »
Yes, but 220V versus 120V I think that matters for the current through the same filter capacitors and, as a result, for the noise level :)
I have already said that these capacitors are installed at the input of the power supply. Therefore, the stabilized voltage of 400V after the node of the converter with power factor correction does not mean that the input capacitors work under equal conditions when the mains voltage changes.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 02:39:31 am by Converter »
 


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