Author Topic: US$150 Class Multimeter  (Read 18428 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #125 on: May 23, 2020, 09:20:00 am »
What sort of bandwidth are we talking here 100kHz?

7KHz.
There is higher model that goes to 100KHz but I won't be offering that.
I haven't tested how far beyond 7KHz it goes, but it's unspecified above that.
 
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Online Wytnucls

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #126 on: May 23, 2020, 12:43:14 pm »

What's the current go for the sub US$150 meter market in terms of 60,000 counts, 0.05% DC, as good as 0.06% ohms, and 0.075% current?

0.075% for DC current is impressive and probably unique at that price point. How many LSD are we talking about for that accuracy?
As for the market, the old 40,000 count UniTrend UT-71C (DC mV 0.25%+5) comes to mind at 160$, albeit without a UL listing and proper protection.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000026113182.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6b1c8fdaEi1rcj&algo_pvid=ea55e860-77e3-4c6e-9b5b-56a26a52f424&algo_expid=ea55e860-77e3-4c6e-9b5b-56a26a52f424-25&btsid=0ab6fb8815902395752974436e830b&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 01:22:28 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline bluey

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #127 on: May 23, 2020, 09:41:45 pm »
So probably a new Brymen BM840 series. Specs and form factor less than BM850 series single board. Chip maybe similar to BM860 series - similar accuracy but lower counts.

In the market, it seems to get better than 0.1% basic DC accuracy in a name brand you end up in the precision class double USD150 or more. Most ranges other than DCV end up an order of magnitude less accurate than DCV. Presume the cost of a precision divider network is the price constraint.

Doesn’t make sense to me that electrical protection should cost a lot - design and parts aren’t that expensive. Ingress protection takes a bit more engineering. Look how many years/decades it takes to get environmental protection into phones and cameras. Hioki pocket DMMs are IP42.
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #128 on: May 23, 2020, 10:56:41 pm »
The new yellow is red  lolll

I see 8 buttons functions  with one yellow  top left ...

And the inputs are like a V  not in  line,  like  a Sanwa    ... damn  i've seen a design like this .....   kinda look like an old techtronix 912 914 916 series, or Kioritsu ???
 

Offline Caliaxy

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #129 on: May 23, 2020, 11:14:52 pm »
What sort of bandwidth are we talking here 100kHz?

7KHz.

Disappointing... so what exactly is this meter supposed to do better than the Amazon Commercial/CEM 90DM890 that sold until recently for under $140?
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #130 on: May 24, 2020, 01:32:16 am »
What sort of bandwidth are we talking here 100kHz?

7KHz.

Disappointing... so what exactly is this meter supposed to do better than the Amazon Commercial/CEM 90DM890 that sold until recently for under $140?
Looking at the price of the Amazon meter now, it may have been a limited fire sale to test the waters. That or they will make this a "hot product" when they come up with their seasonal sales.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #131 on: May 24, 2020, 06:34:50 am »
In the market, it seems to get better than 0.1% basic DC accuracy in a name brand you end up in the precision class double USD150 or more. Most ranges other than DCV end up an order of magnitude less accurate than DCV. Presume the cost of a precision divider network is the price constraint.

This one has a precision divider network, I posted a photo of it.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #132 on: May 24, 2020, 06:58:01 am »
When will we see some more photos?

Ones showing interesting stuff .... like the front.   ;D
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #133 on: May 24, 2020, 07:11:34 am »
What sort of bandwidth are we talking here 100kHz?
7KHz.
Disappointing... so what exactly is this meter supposed to do better than the Amazon Commercial/CEM 90DM890 that sold until recently for under $140?

Err, 10KHz on the 90DM890 is just as disappointing.
And you can't compare a fire sale price to a normal retail price. Where can you buy the 90D890 for $140 now and in the future?

But what extra does it have? From what I gather:
60,000 count vs 50,000 count
EF testing
Slim, not some big hulking thing
Real batteries and LCD with hundreds of hours life vs lithium ion rechargable and colour dot matrix.
Proper UL testing
Better DCV, ohms and DCA accuracy.
AutoHold
Visual continuity

But you can't compare the two though, they aren't in the same category.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 07:32:16 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #134 on: May 24, 2020, 07:15:48 am »
What's the current go for the sub US$150 meter market in terms of 60,000 counts, 0.05% DC, as good as 0.06% ohms, and 0.075% current?
0.075% for DC current is impressive and probably unique at that price point. How many LSD are we talking about for that accuracy?

+20 counts.
So better than say a Brymen BM869S
 
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Online Wytnucls

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #135 on: May 24, 2020, 12:55:13 pm »
Slightly better, unless your meter has a 60uA range  :)

At the bottom of the 600uA range, accuracy will be virtually the same (+20).
At the top of the range, measuring, say 450uA, will give you a maximum error of 450.54 instead of 450.88 uA.
I don't think it makes a big difference in the real world, unfortunately.

The UT71C/D  claims an accuracy of 0.10%+15 on the 400uA range, but that might be optimistic, according to my other meters. It could be out of calibration after 6 years. (Actually, after nulling offset currents, the accuracy is in the ballpark)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 09:01:53 am by Wytnucls »
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #136 on: May 24, 2020, 02:26:42 pm »
Why does it has to be a fight each time over specs  loll    the "150$  Class meter"  tells all ...

I look forward to see what this meter can do and can't do.  Surely there will be some teardown and maybe some tests reviews ??


There' s a lot of speculations ...   down to the last digit   loll       just wait and see,   i'm sure  "we"   will get all the specs one day or the other.


Even for myself,    i tend to go overboard,  i have Gossen 28 and 29s meters, paid a fortune for them, and i wish they could do more  loll  faster  loll  Never satisfed i may be.


I saw only one  meter brand go up to a "real" 80,000 count,  but wasn't very well "featured"  not the Vichy / Victor bench meters, a hand held meter.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 02:34:04 pm by coromonadalix »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #137 on: May 25, 2020, 02:01:08 am »
Why does it has to be a fight each time over specs  loll    the "150$  Class meter"  tells all ...

Yup, it's not designed to set the world on fire, just another meter at yet another feature/price point. The tightness of the current spec did surprise me a bit at this price point though. I do wonder if that was a design goal or whether it just happened to pop out of some new component(s) choice.
 

Online Wytnucls

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #138 on: May 25, 2020, 07:55:57 am »
There is no fight. Everybody hopes Dave does well with this meter too.
For that to happen, it has to be at least equal or better than what is on the market already.
Low current measurement is good, but probably not enough to pull ahead decisively by itself.
I compared the released specs to the similarly priced UT71C, because I know it reasonably well.
For most, the UL listing will be the deciding factor (as it should), so the meter should be successful, even if the specs don't set the world on fire.
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #139 on: May 25, 2020, 08:27:25 am »
Some people may not need a high degree of accuracy but instead require good reliability and consistency. Others may require specific features or functions for routine testing or repairs. I remember the first meter I bought that had the ability to record minimum and maximum values and I found it so useful that I swore never to buy another meter which did not have min/max. Then I bought a meter which had autohold and I swore never buy another meter which did not have min/max and autohold. Then I got into logging and got in trouble for swearing too much.   :-DMM ;D 
 

Online Brumby

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #140 on: May 25, 2020, 08:43:33 am »
Serves you right.     ;D

I get by through the age-old process of lowering my expectations, which tends to work well with my budgetary constraints.  Then Bean throws a spanner in the works by pointing out things of interest.......
 

Offline evava

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #141 on: May 25, 2020, 09:18:52 am »
If we are talking about $150 then we are talking about Brymen857/867 so the big competition already exists  :-DMM
 

Offline RedSky

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #142 on: May 25, 2020, 10:02:17 am »
If we are talking about $150 then we are talking about Brymen857/867 so the big competition already exists  :-DMM

Actually that's true the Brymen 867S is available from a European site for $146USD (not including GST & shipping)

Dave - did you ever consider selling the 867S?  It's actually not easy to get hold of in large parts of the World (i.e USA & Australia) and it's an excellent meter.   
While it's similar in some specs to the 121GW, it doesn't have the connectivity, hacakability, or low burden abilities so not quite a direct competitor.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 10:04:58 am by RedSky »
 

Online Wytnucls

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #143 on: May 25, 2020, 10:23:14 am »
That would be USD180.00 with the VAT, with only 5 in stock!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 10:26:10 am by Wytnucls »
 

Offline bluey

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #144 on: May 25, 2020, 10:57:58 am »
In the market, it seems to get better than 0.1% basic DC accuracy in a name brand you end up in the precision class double USD150 or more. Most ranges other than DCV end up an order of magnitude less accurate than DCV. Presume the cost of a precision divider network is the price constraint.

This one has a precision divider network, I posted a photo of it.

I had seen that. 0.05% accuracy precision divider networks seem hard to find. Did they manage to find a low cost supplier??? Or do they manage some clever digital correction with a lower accuracy divider network??

Only 0.05% divider network i can find so far in similar form factor is US66.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 11:14:10 am by bluey »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #145 on: May 25, 2020, 12:00:43 pm »
Low current measurement is good, but probably not enough to pull ahead decisively by itself.

It does not have low current measure, not sure where you got that idea from. 600.00uA range only.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #146 on: May 25, 2020, 12:02:32 pm »
Are you going to run it through the dial-grinding machine?

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #147 on: May 25, 2020, 12:16:54 pm »
Actually that's true the Brymen 867S is available from a European site for $146USD (not including GST & shipping)
Dave - did you ever consider selling the 867S?  It's actually not easy to get hold of in large parts of the World (i.e USA & Australia) and it's an excellent meter.   

Wasn't possible. Brymen are crazy loyal to their local suppliers, which is why Brymen meters are hard to get in many locations. I can't sell most released Brymen meters because their "official" Australian distributor Cabac get an exclusive deal, even if they are absolutely useless and hardly sell any. Go try buy a Brymen from the local Australian distributor and they send you a quote  ::)
Only if they reject to carry a model, or I get in first am I able to sell it. I only got the BM235 because I was involved very early on and even helped out with the development a bit.
I wanted to sell the BM869 but wasn't allowed.
But I'm not that keen on the 867/869 anyway because it's just too big.

I considered the new BM839/836, but it was only 20,000 count and didn't seem that exciting.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #148 on: May 25, 2020, 12:18:51 pm »
I had seen that. 0.05% accuracy precision divider networks seem hard to find. Did they manage to find a low cost supplier??? Or do they manage some clever digital correction with a lower accuracy divider network??

No idea. I presume they found a low cost supplier to do a custom job. Maybe it's work it's way into other future models.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: US$150 Class Multimeter
« Reply #149 on: May 25, 2020, 12:33:58 pm »
If we are talking about $150 then we are talking about Brymen857/867 so the big competition already exists  :-DMM

Func  Mystery     BM867S
DCV   0.03%+2  0.03%+2
ACV   0.5%+30  0.8%+60 but hard to compare as different ranges. 7Khz vs 20KHz
Ohm  0.085%+4 0.1%+6
Diode 3V           2V
Cont   Visual      No visual
Cap    1%+10    0.8%+3
DCA    0.075%+20   0.1%+20    Mystery has slightly lower burden and better specs across more ranges
Temp  Yes          No
EF      Yes          No
AutoHold   Yes   No
Count  60,000   50,000
Phy     Slim       Big hulk
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 12:35:41 pm by EEVblog »
 


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