EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: cosmin1 on August 03, 2020, 11:12:31 am
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I ordered the Quicko T12-952 soldering station for a new project: soldering tweezers.
Any idea how can i power the second tip without affecting the temperature information measured by the control unit?
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H62fc7f9003e445ecae137a5b64c2977aj.jpg)
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Huh? Please elaborate on what you’re envisioning.
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Any idea how can i power the second tip without affecting the temperature information measured by the control unit?
Buy another station :palm:. You cannot connect 2 irons to a single station. And if you try, most likely something in the station will fail.
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Instead of one tip, i want to heat up two tips, as a desoldering tweezers for SMD.
The tweezers housing will mold it myself. Just the electronic part is a problem at the moment.
Something like this:
(https://ro.farnell.com/productimages/standard/en_GB/3367913-40.jpg)
Second station is out of question. I won't give up, will find a proper solution.
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I agree, buying a second quicko or equivalent would be the fastest solution. Or at least a second controller board, with a shared power supply. But I doubt the one you already have has the oomph to run two tips.
T12 tips have a heater in series with the thermocouple. The same two contacts are used for both purposes, which requires the controller to alternate between sampling the temperature and running the heater. So just putting two tips in parallel isn't going to work, like it might on a dumb iron. But see what you can think up now that you have an idea what you're trying to do.
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I was thinking for using a MOS to run the second tip only as long the controller is heating the main tip.
On that short period when the controller samples the temperature, he does it only from the main tip.
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I was thinking for using a MOS to run the second tip only as long the controller is heating the main tip.
On that short period when the controller samples the temperature, he does it only from the main tip.
Tip temperatures will very different and power supply/ switching element are made to be sufficient only for one soldering iron, not two.
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Instead of one tip, i want to heat up two tips, as a desoldering tweezers for SMD.
That part was obvious. It’s how you intend to do that that’s not clear.
The tweezers housing will mold it myself. Just the electronic part is a problem at the moment.
Something like this:
(https://ro.farnell.com/productimages/standard/en_GB/3367913-40.jpg)
Second station is out of question.
So you want to connect two heaters to one station that’s designed only for a single iron??
I won't give up, will find a proper solution.
The proper solution is to get a station designed for tweezers, or tweezers designed for a single-channel station. (It seems that tweezers often have only one temperature sensor, even though they have two heaters. I suppose the heaters have either double the resistance and are run in parallel, or half the resistance and run in series, compared to the single heater in the regular iron.)
If those tips (Hakko T9? Please provide info. Stop being secretive! :P) are designed for a handle that normally accepts a single iron, it’s possible they meet one of those criteria and you’d be able to run them with a controller designed for the single iron. You’d just sense temperature on one side only, since there’s absolutely no sensible way to run two temperature sensors to a station designed for only one.
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The tips i intend to use are T12-JL02, if that matters.
I was thinking about their resistance too but i don't think i will ever find this type of tips with double or half of nominal value.
I guess i will just have to make some experiments.
How is the temperature measured on this type of controller? Just measuring the current through the heating element? Or it measures the resistance of element when not running?
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Like I said in my previous response, it's a thermocouple and heater in series. When the heat is off, the voltage the thermocouple is producing can be sampled through the resistor that is the heater. When the heat is on, the thermocouple is just a wire. There are a number of T12 iron projects that you can hunt up if you want to see how they did it, both hardware and software.
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Because the T12 tips are too long for using as tweezers, i will do it with USB iron tips, using a 4,2-5V variable power supply. It should do the job.
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Hi,
Your idea makes sense.
If the source power is sufficient to power two heaters simultaneously, then it will work.
This is the design used in the TT65 PACE Tweezers.
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Pace can do that because their temperature sensor is not in series with the heater(s), so the temperature feedback will work properly. The OP wants to use tips that have a thermocouple in series with the heater: there’s no way for that to produce the correct temperature feedback.
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It is done exactly as i intended.
Will be back with more info after i will build the tweezers bracket and finalize the project.
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So... it's ok with T12 tips too. 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_sx5a6ueeg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_sx5a6ueeg)
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hello, i am planning to do something similar can you share how you wired the 2 tips and what is the handle you are using?
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I did it differently, I used the gordak 902 handle and a separate controller.
I used 2 JL02 tips, the controller is next to the articulated handle.
How do I upload a photo from my desktop?.
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Hello Jairo.
You can use image sharing sites as: https://postimages.org/, (https://postimages.org/,) https://imgbb.com/ (https://imgbb.com/) or any other site you find here or else: https://www.guru99.com/free-photo-hosting.html (https://www.guru99.com/free-photo-hosting.html) and copy image link here.
Waiting for your pictures.
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Hello Jairo.
You can use image sharing sites as: https://postimages.org/, (https://postimages.org/,) https://imgbb.com/ (https://imgbb.com/) or any other site you find here or else: https://www.guru99.com/free-photo-hosting.html (https://www.guru99.com/free-photo-hosting.html) and copy image link here.
Waiting for your pictures.
Please don’t do this. The external pictures eventually go missing. Upload the images here.
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I did it differently, I used the gordak 902 handle and a separate controller.
I used 2 JL02 tips, the controller is next to the articulated handle.
How do I upload a photo from my desktop?.
When you post or reply, click “Attachments and other options” below the text box.
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I did it differently, I used the gordak 902 handle and a separate controller.
I used 2 JL02 tips, the controller is next to the articulated handle.
How do I upload a photo from my desktop?.
When you post or reply, click “Attachments and other options” below the text box.
Thanks
Attachments
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Also transforms into soldering iron in two ways
Was it good?.
It took a lot of work.
cosmin 1, how did you do it?. I'm looking for an easier way to do it, yours seems to allow the use of almost all types of tips.
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More news.
Portable Ts 80 controller.
I have a lot of other news
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Those were the first ones that gave the ideas for t12.
Gordak 902 Hinged Handle, A1322 specific heating element for use on atten 936b.
The other ugly is micro controlled, using selected A1322 heating element
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Also transforms into soldering iron in two ways
Was it good?.
It took a lot of work.
cosmin 1, how did you do it?. I'm looking for an easier way to do it, yours seems to allow the use of almost all types of tips.
I molded the entire tweezer housing from high temperature ABS, inserted the contacts and copper rings to hold tips in propper position. It wasn't an easy job. It took me several weeks of work but it's somthing you can't buy.
I have those tweezers you used, too. But i connect them to a classic soldering station in case something happens to this.
In same way i built a 5V tweezers, adjustable power, works great on small jobs. It's not finished, but it's in fully working condition.
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Also transforms into soldering iron in two ways
Was it good?.
It took a lot of work.
cosmin 1, how did you do it?. I'm looking for an easier way to do it, yours seems to allow the use of almost all types of tips.
I molded the entire tweezer housing from high temperature ABS, inserted the contacts and copper rings to hold tips in propper position. It wasn't an easy job. It took me several weeks of work but it's somthing you can't buy.
I have those tweezers you used, too. But i connect them to a classic soldering station in case something happens to this.
In same way i built a 5V tweezers, adjustable power, works great on small jobs. It's not finished, but it's in fully working condition.
very good
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Hi,
Your idea makes sense.
If the source power is sufficient to power two heaters simultaneously, then it will work.
This is the design used in the TT65 PACE Tweezers.
I already did this kind of test on t12, it works perfectly.
It is necessary to increase the current capacity by adding wires in parallel at the right points.
No need for calibration, the temperature remains the same with the 2 tips or if you remove 1 , the same and stable.
The most annoying thing is that you have to buy several tips, select the pairs that have the same temperatures, or very close.
I did it differently because I wanted more portability.
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When running them in parallel, the hotter and colder thermocouples will fight, partially cancelling each other, reporting a -kind of- average voltage.
Can work, but also might cause problems if there's a big temperature difference.
The cold tip will subtract voltage from the hotter one, so the reading will be lower, the controller will put more power and the hotter tip might reach dangerous temperatures.
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That's why you have to select the pairs of tips so that they are as close as possible in temperatures.
Mine are 5 degrees different.
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No, that's not what I mean. You might use perfectly matched tips.
When one of them touches something and cools down, pulls the voltage from the hotter one, but the power will heat both tips concurrently.
This is an example. See how 250ºC and 450ºC tips in paraller report 350ºC.
When you heat a part that has one pin connected to heavy gnd plane, that tip will lose a lot of heat.
In that instant, the other tip, which is not so thermally loaded, will rise its temperature.
You'll end with a very hot tip in the unloaded side and a mildly hot tip where you really need the heat.
Good luck not burning the pads!
This is a very crappy way to do it. You really should make 2 sensing/power stages.
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Same as this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW9RDMQPU5U&t=563s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW9RDMQPU5U&t=563s)
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So the easiest way is to put a controler between the t12 station and the 2 tips which would read the temperature for each one and "direct" the power acordingly, however what temp would it report back to the station? I think it might be easier to do a separate "station" to deal with the tweezers. I'm kinda curious now to find out how Hakko or JBC does it, cause as far as i know the tweezer works on "normal" station, so either they have made all stations with 2 temp circuts controllers inside or they add some kind of controller on the tweezer side, which might sound easier but i'm not sure how well that works in keeping things calibrated and such.
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Where can I find this terminal to buy?.
It is plug into Chinese JBC 245 PCB Handskit
Dimensions: 3mm x 3.7mm x 6mm
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Quote from: JCOS1 on Today at 01:14:40 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=249390.msg4177174#msg4177174)Where can I find this terminal to buy?.
It is plug into Chinese JBC 245 PCB Handskit
Dimensions: 3mm x 3.7mm x 6mm
Look for DIY handle kits on aliexpress or similar sites.
i found one but comes with all the handle parts https://aliexpress.com/item/1005004019617707.html?item_id=1005004019617707&sku_id=12000027759951136&spm=a2g2w.productlist.0.0.4eeb46d4A3zYh9 (https://aliexpress.com/item/1005004019617707.html?item_id=1005004019617707&sku_id=12000027759951136&spm=a2g2w.productlist.0.0.4eeb46d4A3zYh9)
If not you could try to see which bullet female connector fits though it might need some modification to make sure it doesn't damage the tips when you change them.
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Chinese novelty.
https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005004913385606.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.5.472f7d45khzluP&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40000.267768.0&scm_id=1007.40000.267768.0&scm-url=1007.40000.267768.0&pvid=0991dd2f-7749-4254-94cf-3a1a806c83d1&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40000.267768.0,pvid:0991dd2f-7749-4254-94cf-3a1a806c83d1,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238116%23958&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000030998514866%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21BRL%21572.89%21320.84%21%21%21%21%21%40210323a716694756962452527e1aa9%2112000030998514866%21rec&ad_pvid=202211260714562671767951803627158777_0