UT161D from Europe vs China

[keenox]

Hi!
I want to order an UT161D and I see that it would be a lot cheaper to get it directly from China. Since I know that the UT161s are certified UT61+, would I risk getting just a UT61D+ labeled as UT161D when ordering from China or would I get the same physical model that I would buy from Europe?
Thanks!

[Martin72]

Hi,

I see that it would be a lot cheaper to get it directly from China

Where exactly, link to it?
When I look at Ali Express, it costs just under €7 less than here.

[Doctorandus_P]

I don't know about that particular model, but Uni-T is known to have much smaller MOV's and other protection circuitry (or omit them) in the chinese models.

[keenox]

@Martin72: Here: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_okE15oP It's 72 USD and with coupons it's around 63 USD (shipping and tax included). Here in Romania the cheapest I can find it is 88 USD without shipping and not sure it's in stock (so it might be more expensive).

@Doctorandus_P: That's where my confusion comes from. UT161 series is the certified equivalent of the Chinese model UT61+. They have bigger fuses and better input protections.

[Fungus]

Hi!
I want to order an UT161D and I see that it would be a lot cheaper to get it directly from China. Since I know that the UT161s are certified UT61+, would I risk getting just a UT61D+ labeled as UT161D when ordering from China or would I get the same physical model that I would buy from Europe?
Thanks!

I doubt they'd send a different model. Changing the printing on the case wouldn't be easy.

Doesn't matter though: Aliexpress returns are really easy, just drop it off at a local pickup point and that's it.

Buy from a seller that has a full return policy (which is most sellers these days) and return it if it's not right.

[Stray Electron]

   There are a couple of obsolete ICs that I needed in the past and they were widely available from China but all of them were fakes.  I searched Ebay and a few other sites and they also had the parts available from sellers in the US and in various European countries but it was obvious that they were the same fake parts that the Chinese were selling.  I looked for 3 years for one part and eventually gave up because all of the ones that I found were fakes, no matter what country the seller was located in. 

  I don't know anything about UT161Ds but I would not trust anyone other than Digikey, Mouser or other long time and well established sellers.  Fake parts even show up in their inventory on occasion.  Fake items being sold directly by Amazon after their own stock was contaminated by fake parts, has been a recent discussion on this forum.

   FWIW.

[Simmed]

i remember there was a thread somewhere talking about safety certifications
and that the same models sold in china carry PCB populated with different safety components
i dont know what is the current status of these things
so to me i m totally blank 

[mwb1100]

I have a UT161D that I got 2 years ago from Aliexpress.  I can post some teardown photos so you can see what you might likely expect.  Also a UT161E From about 1/1/2 years ago (don't ask).

[bdunham7]

I doubt they'd send a different model. Changing the printing on the case wouldn't be easy.

But just omitting parts is very easy...

[Fungus]

But just omitting parts is very easy...

Maybe the real solution is to buy a brand that isn't famous for doing that.

[Martin72]

I see it the same way.
If there are such suspicions as different structures for the same model names, then I would stay away from it.
And look elsewhere, at brands that are affordable but still “trustworthy”.
Brymen comes to mind immediately.
Now they don't have anything exciting to offer for around €70, but that's where we come to a crucial point:
what do you really need that you've picked out a UT161 D.

https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM231-Multimeter_1

[Fungus]

Yep. The UT61 range never seemed like a good choice to me. There's no advantage to them now that we have companies like Zotek in the game and the price is dangerously close to a "real" multimeter like a Brymen.

Either go lower or higher.

[bdunham7]

Maybe the real solution is to buy a brand that isn't famous for doing that.

I'm glad we agree!

[floobydust]

I also agree.
Uni-T shit the bed with their game of obtaining full safety certificates with VDE in Germany for the UT-61x, then removing the protection components for North America.
So many postings where people's UT61 died due to a minor zap. Same game with using smaller fuses as well.
I can't believe how shady a move that was, when there were only pennies saved for the MOV cost.

Shocker is that Uni-T is fully capable of making strong, decent multimeters as an OEM - but chooses not to.
It's intentional for some stupid reason. I would never buy their shit.

[bdunham7]

Shocker is that Uni-T is fully capable of making strong, decent multimeters as an OEM - but chooses not to.
It's intentional for some stupid reason. I would never buy their shit.

I'm not convinced that just installing the missing parts makes it a particularly good meter.  This one blew up with a surge on the mVDC input and the problem is there is nothing except a single 1k PTC between the input and the main chip.  Putting the MOVs in gives you a two-MOV-series clamp across that input to "protect" the tiny clamp transistors that are on the chip.  No external clamps.  I think it would still die pretty easily even with those MOVs.

[keenox]

@Fungus: Not here. Where are you from? I have to return packages to the post office and have to pay for the shipping and it's really expensive. Avoided returns even when it was the seller's fault.

@mwb1100: Please do! I would be genuinely interested in a teardown (of both of them as I already have an UT161E bought locally). Thanks a lot!

[Fungus]

@Fungus: Not here. Where are you from?

Here in Spain I just take it to the local kiosk and show them a bar code on my phone. 

Amazon is worse, Amazon often makes me take it to the post office where there's always a queue.

[keenox]

@Martin72: No special need. I guess I just like collecting multimeters  as I already have 2 Brymens (a 257s and a 869s). I already have an UT161E and I like it, but for 60-70USD I'd grab an UT161D.

[floobydust]

Shocker is that Uni-T is fully capable of making strong, decent multimeters as an OEM - but chooses not to.
It's intentional for some stupid reason. I would never buy their shit.

I'm not convinced that just installing the missing parts makes it a particularly good meter.  This one blew up with a surge on the mVDC input and the problem is there is nothing except a single 1k PTC between the input and the main chip.  Putting the MOVs in gives you a two-MOV-series clamp across that input to "protect" the tiny clamp transistors that are on the chip.  No external clamps.  I think it would still die pretty easily even with those MOVs.

Here's two UT61E schematics and the "shit the bed" version is missing two MOV's and a protection clamp for the mV channel.

I'm realizing that the chinese go into mass production and sell basically failed prototypes, bad designs, it seems. Then a cover up on the dud models and missing safety certificates.
The UT61 was revised half a dozen times, as if it's some legendary model number or they took that long to make something usable.
Death by BBQ lighter spark is their legacy.

[Simmed]

its like USB product sector
they certifiy 1 product
maybe produce 1000 units
sold out
produce next model (strip it down cheap)
claim it is gen 2
but actually it is the shit version, and does not adhere to USB specs

[Gyro]

...
Death by BBQ lighter spark is their legacy.

Joe Smith covered the ESD sensitivity issue in one of his videos (17:00 onwards), I would wager that the revised network (C41, C42, R8 etc.) feeding the VR1 input on the chip would also fail...

[Fungus]

Be suspicious of any meter that has markings and holes on the on the PCB for different size fuses and other components.

It means inferior/cheaper versions have been designed into the production process.

[floobydust]

There's Rev. A,B,C,D,E and then some +. It's all so tiresome.
UT61E+ looks the same as Euro UT161E which seems to have MOV's populated. Adding $0.12 to the total BoM cost. Hurrah!
But slightly different PCB inside- smaller fuses and smaller PTC's. They double-footprint the fuse holders. What a shell game.

[Gyro]

Personally (and selfishly) I like the version with the 1" BS1362, 6kA breaking, UK plug fuse. Genuine fuses are available for pennies here. Obviously not the case in North America / Canada - I'm not sure about the EU as they don't have fused plugs either, probably still cheap though.

[mwb1100]

Be suspicious of any meter that has markings and holes on the on the PCB for different size fuses and other components.

It means inferior/cheaper versions have been designed into the production process.

There's Rev. A,B,C,D,E and then some +. It's all so tiresome.
UT61E+ looks the same as Euro UT161E which seems to have MOV's populated. Adding $0.12 to the total BoM cost. Hurrah!
But slightly different PCB inside- smaller fuses and smaller PTC's. They double-footprint the fuse holders. What a shell game.

There are legitimate reasons for these kinds of designs.  For example, oscilloscope manufacturers often have the exact same hardware for different models with wildly different pricing, just having different software enabled or not.  Why shouldn't a multimeter manufacturer do similar (using slightly different hardware instead of enabling software features) for different models of meters at different price points?  Another reason for having a design support different components might be for flexibility in parts supply (which might be seen as more important now after the COVID parts crisis).

I realize that Uni-T got a bad reputation for this kind of thing because with the UT61E they had at least two variants of the meter that had important differences but used the same model identifier "UT61E" (though there was some very subtle visible difference by marking some models with with the "GS" mark).

Maybe with the different UT61x+ vs UT161x model identification Uni-T are trying to avoid the confusion/sleaziness of the UT61E situation?