Velleman WFS210 wireless oscilloscope for only £20 !

[Fraser]

I was looking for a very simple oscilloscope that could connect wirelessly to a Apple or Android tablet.

A quick look on ebay revealed the Velleman WFS210 being sold cheap for around £30. Then I found it available for £20 from the Maplin Electronics eBay outlet.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Velleman-2Ch-Wifi-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-Wfs210-2-Independent-Channels-Dvm/401376383828?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The WFS210 manual is here

https://www.velleman.eu/downloads/0/user/usermanual_wfs210.pdf

The software runs on a PC up to Win7, iOS tablet and Android tablet..... but not on phones.

The unit does have its issues. Not particularly high sample rate but for simple low frequency scope and DVM measurements it will be fine. It is self powered and wireless, so pretty useful.

I bought one to test. Hopefully it will connect OK to my PC and one of my tablets. At £20 it seemed too good to ignore.

Fraser

[Fraser]

The SIGROK page provides some detail on the unit

https://sigrok.org/wiki/Velleman_WFS210

Fraser

[Fraser]

Pictures from the SIGROK page

You get a lot for you £20! These originally cost nearer £100 but the software was last updated in 2014 and Velleman show no signs of updating the software for Win10 so it looks like its an abandoned product.

Looks like a decent enough unit for my needs though 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Datasheet...

http://www.velleman.eu/downloads/0/infosheets/datasheet_wfs210_uk.pdf

[Fraser]

Velleman kindly supplies the communications protocol too...

http://www.velleman.eu/downloads/0/information/protocol_wfs210.pdf

Fraser

[bitseeker]

Interesting. Seems a good price for what you get. Am I correct in interpreting the Sigrok page as they plan on adding support for it? That would extend its useful life.

10 MHz bandwidth with only 10 MS/s sampling rate? More like 4 - 5 MHz usable. Still OK for $30.

I already have enough scope goodness, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts after you've had some quality time with it.

[Fraser]

Yes the sampling rate is pretty low and I consider the useable bandwidth to be only around 1MHz.
The fact that it offers a DVM function and multiple measurements units and RMS is useful.
The key features for my needs is the Wi-Fi connectivity and it is self powered. Very useful when working on SMPSU's, but the inputs are not isolated from eachother.

I own a wireless DVM that was produced in the late 1990's. It has a transmitter head and receiver/display module. It cost a small fortune back then and was intended for remote system node state monitoring whilst a central control host was used to set different node states. It turned a two man job into a one man job

The little wireless DSO/DVM may be low bandwidth but when compared to the cheap low bandwidth Chinese USB DSO's it is very cheap at £20. The Velleman 200KHz educational series USB DSO still costs £30 !

If anyone deals with situations that require isolation of the DSO from everything around it (except the DUT of course), or remote monitoring of a node, this little unit looks a useful item to have in the toolbox.

SIGROK indicate that they hope to support the unit in the future. The fact that Velleman have made the protocol public will help developers support it.

More once I receive it.

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

The firmware is also open

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-App?files=1

[Fraser]

This makes a change for Velleman. They refused to release the firmware for the HPS140i that had the triggering issue.

Maybe Velleman hoped to attract the attention of the hacking community to improve their products appeal ?
It is a pity they elected to go for a dual channel 22Ms/S ADC rather than a pair of those 40Ms/s TV ADC's used in the HPS140i

If I need better sampling rates and bandwidth I have 'real' DSO's though.

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

Be good to see this get hacked ...data logging.

Trending data over time etc

[R_G_B_]

Looks like people are already experimenting with the software

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-App/commits/master

[R_G_B_]

Seems to be a lot of problems with the firmware

https://forum.vellemanprojects.eu/c/instruments/wfs210-new

[Fraser]

Yep, as I said, it does have some issues. I have seen user complaints in the past for equipment that stem from host incompatibility. We may be seeing that here. We already know it cannot run with Win10. I have many hosts that I can use with it. I think it also supports USB cable connection as well, but that loses one of its advantages to me.

It is being sold off cheap for a reason. Velleman may have given up on it ? They have posted recently in that support thread though. It could be another case of great hardware, pity about the software though 

For £20 I will give it a go 

Fraser

[Bicurico]

Unfortunatly only selling within the UK.

Regards,
Vitor

[Avacee]

Thanks for the link - have bought one.
Could be an interesting exercise to code up some better software if I don't like the UI 

[Fraser]

Vitor,

You may start to see other offers on these units if they are being discontinued. I saw one for £30 initially but the Maplin deal is the best so far.

Time will tell whether it is a useable DSO and DVM, or just a £20 exotic paperweight.

Fraser

[Bicurico]

I will wait patiently for your review!

Truth is, I don't *need* such a device, but I haven't had courage to participate in the TEA group, either...

Regards,
Vitor

[bitseeker]

The key features for my needs is the Wi-Fi connectivity and it is self powered. Very useful when working on SMPSU's, but the inputs are not isolated from eachother.

Ah, yes. The semi-isolation is good for SMPS work. Of course, with the caveat of the common being, well, common to the inputs. The bandwidth is also fine for SMPS (and Ham radio work).

The little wireless DSO/DVM may be low bandwidth but when compared to the cheap low bandwidth Chinese USB DSO's it is very cheap at £20. The Velleman 200KHz educational series USB DSO still costs £30 !

I was thinking the same thing. Even the little standalone 200kHz ones in a plastic case (e.g., JYE DSO150) are already $20.

[bitseeker]

It is being sold off cheap for a reason. Velleman may have given up on it ? They have posted recently in that support thread though. It could be another case of great hardware, pity about the software though 

If the community does have a go with hacking software for it, Velleman could find that they can focus on the hardware and have good software created for it. Releasing the information to pull it off is certainly a step in that direction. If it works, maybe they'll be inclined to make an upgraded version.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[3db]

I just bought one from Amazon UK for £20
There are two left now.

[edavid]

The firmware is also open

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-App?files=1

That is not the firmware, it is just the apps.

[sorenkir]

Just ordered one on Amazon-UK with my Amazon-FR account.
Shipping to France is £4.10
Michel.

[tautech]

Truth is, I don't *need* such a device, but I haven't had courage to participate in the TEA group, either...

Regards,
Vitor

C'mon Victor, don't be a chicken. 
We'd love for you to share some pics of your goodies. 

[trevwhite]

I decided I do not really need one but it seems that made no difference. At £20 I felt stupid not buying one. Thanks for the heads up Fraser.

[R_G_B_]

So the intention  was or is to open up the software for the hacking community:

https://youtu.be/qEqWtKGJhFQ

[Mr. Scram]

So the intention  was or is to open up the software for the hacking community:

https://youtu.be/qEqWtKGJhFQ

Yeah, I saw that clip too. It was obviously the intention to throw a device out there with barely functional software, in the hopes that the community would run with it. It might have, if the thing would have been half the price or less. It's not a really nice business practice regardless.

[bitseeker]

Thanks for the vid, R_G_B_. Publishing the protocol is a good start. It sounds like the firmware also needs help, but the platform isn't quite that open (yet?).

[Mr. Scram]

Thanks for the vid, R_G_B_. Publishing the protocol is a good start. It sounds like the firmware also needs help, but the platform isn't quite that open (yet?).

I looks like Velleman is dumping the remaining devices cheaply, probably to clear inventory, so there appears to be little incentive to release the firmware code. Opening up the protocol and apps was an attempt to seduce the community into development.

[nickds1]

The firmware is also open

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-App?files=1

That's only the IOS and Android client applications, not the firmware. The box itself is closed.

[Bicurico]

Truth is, I don't *need* such a device, but I haven't had courage to participate in the TEA group, either...

Regards,
Vitor

C'mon Victor, don't be a chicken. 
We'd love for you to share some pics of your goodies. 

 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg1312020/#msg1312020

[tszaboo]

Hey, it is only 20 GBP for one. Places one in Amazon basket. Places another 80 GBP other stuff in Amazon basket. Yes, I totally need those things, and I'm a perfectly reasonable guy, who doesnt do impulse purchases.
Especially the 36 pound replacement ear pads for my sennheiser headphone.

[bitseeker]

Sounds like a good shopping day, NANDBlog.

[b_force]

So the intention  was or is to open up the software for the hacking community:

https://youtu.be/qEqWtKGJhFQ

Velleman best known for kits?
They mean, Velleman is best known for re-branding stuff and ask 3-6 times the price for it, lol

Anyway, I don't know all the functions of this thing yet, but it would work great for a tracer (also for the old tube fanatics) or general audio stuff.
10Mhz is a bit limited, but for some easy probing around, just fine.
(the "more than enough' comment, was a little bit like  , eeehm no!)
Hopefully more companies follow the idea of open source parts.
A lot of the times the hardware is pretty decent, but only the software is such a shame.
So, definitely interesting for the price.

edit:
In the Velleman shop it's only 99 bucks? 
https://www.vellemanstore.com/en/velleman-wfs210-wlan-digital-storage-oscilloscope

[Howardlong]

I bought one of these a couple of years back.

To say it’s steaming pile of turd is being generous.

I was going to do a video review of it to show how shit it is, but thought better of it than to waste my time.

Honestly, I wouldn’t waste your time, it’ll sit like mine has in its box for years to come taking up drawer space.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digilent-analog-discovery-or-budget-oscilloscope/msg665716/#msg665716

[medical-nerd]

Hiya

Maplins still have them at £20 so have purchased one for a play with.
It may sit in a draw afterwards but you never know.....

Cheers

[lukier]

To say it’s steaming pile of turd is being generous.

I was going to do a video review of it to show how shit it is, but thought better of it than to waste my time.

Honestly, I wouldn’t waste your time, it’ll sit like mine has in its box for years to come taking up drawer space.

I ordered one and what you've said is my major worry - that it is so bad it makes it completely unusable.

I guess rewriting the FW is an option, the PCB cannot be very difficult to reverse engineer. Unfortunately, I've never used PICs (and dsPICs), have no tools at all. Wish they based this gadget on STM32 or something similar.

[Fraser]

A new firmware was loaded since initial release. There are instructions on the Velleman web site for installing the latest firmware but you need a Pickit programmer to install it ! Fortunately I have some of those already, so if mine needs updating , I can do it.

The unit may indeed be no good. If so..... back it will go to Maplin. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. At £20 it was worth taking a look.

Fraser

[Specmaster]

I too have purchased one of these, worth a look, not too sure how good it is or if it will be used beyond initial testing, already got 4 working scopes and 2 undergoing repairs but I thought it was a novelty having a larger screen and it might make a reasonable DVM, who knows. Not sure if its returnable though unless its faulty. Lets wait and see how long it takes to arrive from Maplins, normally I get stuff the next day.

[Fraser]

Maplin are pretty good on the returns front.

The auction page specifies a 30 day no quibble returns policy. I will download the software etc rather than breaking any seals on the supplied CD (if there is one provided). That avoids the exception regarding the use of software that is sealed.

In any case, Maplin are a commercial Retailer and subject to the usual rules unless specifically stated in the auction that the unit is without warranty or returns. If it proves 'not fit for purpose' it can be returned.

I have to wonder if the software issues have caused such a headache for a Maplin that they decided to ditch their warehouse stock via the outlet shop.

£20 does not go far in the UK these days so, for me, it is worth my time taking a look at the unit in case it offers a very cheap wireless DSO to DVM. Like many wireless devices designed for Android, there can be MANY compatibility issues as the hosts can vary greatly.

The good news is that Velleman still seem to be developing firmware and apps to resolve the issues.

Fraser

[Fraser]

The unit has just arrived.

I have inspected it and all looks to be new and in good order. I have now placed it on charge. It needs a USB charger rated at 500mA or more.

There is no software or user manual provided in the box so no worries about breaking a software seals if intending to return the unit. You do get a quick start guide and a USB to Mini (not Micro) USB cable.

Scary thing was after plugging it into a charger, not only did the charge led light, but also an exclamation mark ! I thought it was telling me there was a fault. After reading the downloaded manual I see that it is just warning that the USB earth and BNC earths may be at different potentials.

I would have thought that this 'reminder LED should be on the 'front' panel adjacent to the BNC connectors so it can easily be seen.

Anyway, once charged, I will test it on my Tesco HUDL, my Win7 laptop and maybe on my iPad Air 2.

Fraser

[Avacee]

Mine arrived this morning and took about 6 hours to charge.
First thoughts are similar to Fraser's in the post above.

Calling the software a steaming pile of manure is insulting the manure.
Even without connecting to the device the software (downloaded from Velleman's website) refreshes at 60FPS.
On my steam age i5-2500K it averages 31% CPU. On my (windows+android) tablets it simply drains the battery - don't have an iWhatever.

The windows software doesn't let you change the trigger level. The manual says to move a slider but this simply moves GND up/down the screen.
The android software does let you change the trigger level.

It creates a HotSpot so you connect to it directly rather than connecting it to your existing network. One of those £3 usb wifi connected to it no problem at 24Mb.
It uses 192.168.1.x - so if your existing wifi network uses this you'll have fun as windows10 tries to work out which wifi network you want to use. No problem for me as my existing network uses 192.168.0.x

Once connected it streams the data reliably enough but the software display it CRAP. Even with a trigger set on a steady signal (Tri,Squ,Sine) it flickers left+right to make it unreadable at timers. No way is this anywhere near 10Mhz.

The 2nd channel has a fair bit of feedthrough (is that the technical term?) - will post a picture later but late for dinner at my sisters.
It's hard to determine what the quality of the hardware is like when the software is so unusable.

I'll let others with far more experience break it down but this newbs first thought are that it's a decent enough bit of kit for the price for price for simple usage that's badly badly badly let down by worthless software.
Looking at the protocol document, github and wiresharking it better software shouldn't be too hard and going to spend a few hours over the weekend seeing what I can improve.

[Specmaster]

Oh dear, that does not sound too good, I'm thinking there will be loads handed back then.

[Fraser]

Thanks Avocee,

I have just tested my unit and was expecting issues with Wi-Fi connectivity.

It was an anti-climax event. The HUDL tablet connected to the WFS210 and it worked fine.

I set the vertical scale to 5mV to see how much noise is present with no inputs to the BNC  connectors. I was pleasantly surprised with the noise levels displayed.

I have yet to test the unit with a signal generator, but will do later.

I have played with the iOS software in demo mode and it certainly could do with some improvement. 
I noticed that the demo sine waves seemed to change in phase relationship as the vertical position was adjusted..... weird !

I was disappointed to not see a DSO/DVM option in the software. I hoped I would be able to select a dedicated DVM mode as I have found on other software for USB scopes.

I am reserving judgement on the unit until it has had a thorough shake-down. Sadly it could be another example of decent enough hardware let down by software.

The unit is currently connected to my HUDL in a link reliability test to see if the unit loses connection or hangs over the next hour or so. Both the WFS210 unit and the HUDL are running off external power.

Fraser

[bitseeker]

The 2nd channel has a fair bit of feedthrough (is that the technical term?) - will post a picture later

Crosstalk, where the signal on one channel appears on another? If it's sufficiently attenuated it'll probably be OK.

[Fraser]

I just did a quick 10 minute test of the WFS210 with a function generator.......

Oh what a pity  This unit could so easily be very good..... but boy does it have issues !

Fellow buyers of this unit... I think you may be returning them for a refund.

The very first time I tried connecting the unit to my HUDL it connected fine. Since then it has put up quite a fight. I will take you through a typical Wi-Fi connection experience...

1. Switch on WFS210 - unit boots and flashes connect LED
2. Wait for WFS210 to appear on Wi-Fi nodes on the Tablet
3. Select WFS210 node and wait for 'connected' to appear on tablet
4. Look at WFS210 to see if Link established LED is lit .... it is not
5. Start the WFS210 APP. APP starts but claims no WFS210 and goes to demo mode
6. Go into APP settings and deselect Demo tick box. Return to APP main screen.
7. The APP reports no WFS210 and goes into DEMO mode again.
8. Go back into the settings menu and deselect the Demo mode
9. Return to main screen and DEMO mode will appear again. But sometims also an IP address
Appears at the bottom of the screen.
10. Keep going round the loop deselecting demo mode and returning to the main screen until the APP eventually sees the WFS210 and the APP begins working. The link LED is also now illuminated.
11. Both input Channels are OFF by default. Select a channel and either manually or Auto set the timebase and voltage range.


Yes it is that much hassle. It appears that even though the tablet sees the WFS210, the APP does not !
Eventually it sees the unit and we can progress. Very annoying though.

A quick test using a function generator proved that the trigger operates and that the frequency and amplitude readings are accurate. Note that the amplitude measurement feature defaults to DC volts ! A DSO tends to be an AC display device and they go and default to a DC measurement mode ! Once you select P-P or RMS, all is well.

So far I have found the unit to be frustrating to use 

The APP may look quite 'pretty' but it appears to be very poorly written and unreliable at finding the WFS210. Such a pity as the idea behind the unit is sound. The hardware looks reasonable, but the software.... oh the software 

What idiot places a probe compensation signal contact on the underside of the case, rather than on the easily accessible front panel ? Oh and what idiot places the proble compensation contact hole adjacent to the units SSID reset button hole ! Daft buggers !

Do I keep it or send it back...... I will spend some more time with the unit but if things do not improve, it's useless and infuriating to use.

How on earth did this thing get released from Velleman R&D in its current state ? It's a joke.

Oh, in case anyone is trying to use Win 10 on a PC with the WFS210, I understand it is not compatible.

Fraser

[bitseeker]

Fraser, at #4 the Link established LED is not lit. Does it light before the app is able to see it or only after the app has successfully connected? I'm curious if the firmware might just take a long time to become ready for full operation after a cold boot.

[Fraser]

Bitseeker,

I monitored the behaviour of the link LED during my test. It's not good news.

The Wi-Fi active LED flashes and I would expect it to stop flashing and the link LED to light once the Tablet states it has established the Wi-Fi link is connected. However the Wi-Fi Available LED keeps flashing after I see 'connected' on the tablet.

It appears that the APP looks for the WFS210 at an IP Address and if found, the Link LED lights and the Wi-Fi available LED lights solid.

Once the WFS210 is displaying an image and triggered, the data LED lights and flickers to represent data flow.

It seems like the APP is either too quick to go into DEMO mode before getting what it wants from the WFS210 ( to show it present) , or the WFS210 is not negotiating an IP address with the tablet reliably.

I considered using my tablets a USB OTG port for direct connection to the scope but the APP stupidly does not support such direct connectivity.

I shall test the PC software today. First impressions are not good. No Y shift, as already stated. TWO independent triggers that can cause a false phase shift in the displayed waveforms and  a less gain great Looking GUI. Frankly it's very poor.

Fraser

[djos]

Have you updated the firmware to the latest? Apparently it fixes issues with iPad's and possibly others too.

[Fraser]

Djos,

No not yet.

From what a I can find out, the newer firmware was purely a fix for iOS10 and users reported that it still did not work ! Velleman make no claim of any bug fixes for anything else. Apparently the iOS bug fix was just a change of the IP address used as iOS10 did not like the one that Velleman originally used.

There are also reports that installing the iOS10 firmware bricked some units completely !

Having to use a PicKit programmer to update the units firmware via direct connection to the PCB is archaic and indicative of where Velleman need to up their game. The HPS140i is the same. No firmware update over USB.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Some good news at last.

I just tested the WFS210 with my HP Elitebook 2170P running Win7 and it connected both quickly and reliably over Wi-Fi. You just need to select Wi-Fi connection and provide the IP address of the WFS210 from the drop down menu. In my case it was 169.254.1.1. Worked instantly and flawlessly 

I the. Tried direct connection via USB cable. Just select USB connection and the Com port is displayed. Then connect. Again this worked fine.

As to the performance of the software itself....... we shall see later.

It would appear that the Wi-Fi module and firmware in the WFS210 is working OK and that it is the Androud App on a tablet that is having issues recognising theunit and its IP address. More investigation on that later.

If the unit is useful and reliable on my laptop, I will keep it as my lab contains mainly laptops anyway 

As for iOS10 compatibility.... I am not really that fussed about it as I do not intend to use my iPad with the unit anyway.

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

Firmware version 1443

WiFi firmware 4.41

App version 1.2

The android software responded  like a  corpse

I don't know how this got into mass  production

I'm sure there are people on this forum who can write much better software

I agree we Fraser the idea of this is a good one shame about the effort.

It's obvious velleman were aiming to high on this one.

[Fraser]

For info,

My WFS210 is serial number 091400311

Firmware 1423 and Wi-Fi firmware 4.00

Android App is 1.2

Fraser

[Fraser]

I have another WFS210 to test

Serial number 111400814

Firmware 1423
Wi-Fi firmware 4.0

Fraser

[Fraser]

Testing of both WFS210 units on my HUDL tablet....... both linking to Tablet with ease !

Test repeated many times with same result. None of the delay in creating the link that I had yesterday.

So what has changed since yesterday ?  Location, location, location.

I have moved further away from my house Wireless Access Point.

I am starting to think the Wi-Fi module used in the WFS210 is part of the connectivity problem, if not THE problem.

More testing needed though. I will try connecting when near to the AP.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Nope, I cannot explain this.

The exact same equipment in the exact same location now links and works without any problem 

The only change to the WFS210 is that I connected it to my laptop via Wi-Fi and USB cable to test it.

Remember that the unit worked flawlessly on the first switch on yesterday. It then went flakey on me.
Could there be some form of firmware or APP instability I wonder.

I carefully watched my tablet while it created a Wi-Fi link to the unit. It sees the SSID soon after the Wi-Fi LED starts its slow blink. When told to link to the WFS210, the tablet quickly displays the IP address so that is already established before the APP is running. The link LED became Solid on. This is all before the APP is started.

Once I start the Android APP, the display is NOT in Demo screen mode and the IP address appears at the bottom of the screen. The DSO is then running fine. I repeated the link process from scratch several times on the two WFS210 units and they worked flawlessly today. Soooo weird 

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

Fraser

Any chance of monitoring the network activity between the tablet and
The velleman WiFi oscilloscope and the host device?

How about using a spectrum analyser to look in the frequency domain see if there are any problems there as well.

Need a protocol analyser to look at where things in a bit more depth instead of plug and pray.

Just some ideas

[Fraser]

I can do Spectrum checks but sadly I do not have a Wi-Fi link protocol analyser.

I have quite a few more interesting projects (thermal cameras) at the moment so I cannot spend too much time on this cheap little unit. I will do some more analysis of its behaviour though.

I also need to check the basic performance of the DSO and its trigger stability etc.

I am just a little baffled as to why it started behaving so badly yesterday, yet today it is connecting fine every time I test it.

Your unit looks to have a later firmware loaded. It would appear that the update made no difference to the units connection reliability if yours is still misbehaving.

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

I think I have Found something but need to see if this is the same for others

When on the android tablet and connect to the velleman WiFi scope it's intermittent switches between demo mode and connected mode. And the interface does not respond.

Using the tablet with  OTG connection to velleman scope alone again just goes into demo mode. However when I simultaneously connecting using both the usb OTG connection and WiFi it works flawlessly.

I'm not sure why this is but it seems to make the thing work.

[R_G_B_]

I suspect the software is getting. confused with the connection type some how its timing out or hanging ..while decided the  connection type

Just a thought

[jimmc]

Another WFS210 here from Maplin/ebay

Serial number 101400580
Firmware 1423
Wi-Fi firmware 4.00
Android App is 1.2

Tablet running Android 4.1.1


Having trouble with initial connection but once established seems reliable.

A quick check suggests a front end bandwidth of 20MHz @-3dB,
but with a fastest sweep speed of 1uS/div* and no anti-aliasing filter
the maximum usable frequency is about 1MHz.

*Now what? The 5, 2 and 1uS timebase settings all give a sweep speed of 5uS/div,
the numbers may change but the trace doesn't!
I've checked this using a few frequencies around 100kHz so I don't think it can be an aliasing problem.
Can anyone confirm this?

Jim

[Fraser]

R_G_B,

AFAIK the APP does not use OTG connectivity.

BUT I was thinking along a similar line. When I first tested my unit it was still on charge and worked flawlessly. I then tested it on my function generator whilst it was running on its internal battery. The fun began there.

I was considering whether the fact that the unit was being powered from a nice solid 5V was making it more reliable. OTG supplies power to the connected device too.

My tests today were with the first unit self powered and the new unit on charge. Both behaved.

Could we be seeing a noise problem due to the battery boost circuit I wonder ?

These are useful observations. Keep them coming

Fraser

[Fraser]

Jimmy,

Welcome to the madhouse that is the WFS210 owners club 

Sadly I am literally heading out the door to a party, so cannot check your issue.
If not confirmed today, I will take a look tomorrow.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Was the WFS210 an apprentice project that never got finished I wonder ?

Fraser

[bitseeker]

Hmm, running on battery is a plausible source of instability. Wi-Fi is power hungry.

[Avacee]

Firmware 4.00 and Build 1423.

I can consistently make my unit freeze and would appreciate if others could repeat the test.

1) Turn on the unit and give it a minute to fully boot. I know the "AP Ready" LED starts blinking straight away but be patient
2) Start either the Windows or Android App - Connect via Wifi - Wait for waveform to appear - Disconnect
3) Do nothing for 15 mins (seems pretty reliably 15 mins)
4) The "AP Ready" LED goes off - the "App Connected" LED goes on - Wifi drops - Goes from SSID list .. etc
Have to Power Cycle the unit.
Edit4: Actually - it just freezes after 15 minutes of no activity.
15 mins inactivity straight after power-on or 15 mins inactivity after an hour of use both resulted in the unit freezing.


Edit1: Sometimes (often) the Android App really really doesn't want to connect.
What often happens is the "App Connected" LED lights ON but the Android App freezes on startup or stays in Demo Mode despite repeatedly turning demo mode off.
The Windows App now won't connect as the unit thinks the existing Android App is connected.
Soon as I end the Android App the "App Connected" LED goes off and the windows app can connect fine.

Edit2: Found a way to have my Android App reliably connect.
1) Connect Android to a different AP - in that case my normal home wifi
2) Start Android App - defaults into Demo Mode
3) Go back into network settings and change wifi connection to the WFS210
4) Swap back to the App and turn off Demo Mode
Looks like shitty startup code in the App .... or maybe it's that my tablet is pretty rubbish - deliberately using a bottom of the range model to show up slow code I write :p
Edit3: Also works if I Turn Off Wifi - Start the App - Wait a bit - Turn On wifi - Back to App

Once connected I'm actually liking it for £20.
With some decent software (and a firmware fix for 15 min issue if confirmed) this could be damn good value.

[R_G_B_]

So you pretty much screwed if you can not find an alternative AP to connect to first before trying out the method you have described.   

The software is sluggish when you  touch functions such AC DC GND you here the instant click of the relays but the display takes a bit longer to update.

By the way you method works

[Avacee]

Sods Law on post timings

I was just editing that it also works if you Turn Off Wifi - Start the App - Wait a bit for it to initialise - Turn On Wifi.

[jimmc]

Connecting via USB on an old XP desktop(P4 2.8GHz)... works (but the display flickers a bit).
The 1 & 2uS/div settings are correct.
No wireless available.

Then spent a happy couple of hours resurrecting an old laptop (Athlon mobile 2.5GHz) eventually got software to load.
Totally unusable, 100% CPU, you can see the display scanning across the screen.

Re Android WiFi sequencing I had tried something similar, it worked most times but not 100%.

External power or battery only gave similar results.

I've had enough fun for one day, I will try your method tomorrow.

Jim

[Howardlong]

Was the WFS210 an apprentice project that never got finished I wonder ?

Fraser

The thing is they clearly spent a significant sum on the aesthetics, with custom moldings etc, there were no shortcuts there in comparison to everything else. The software and firmware was definitely not given enough of the right resources in terms of development or testing.

[R_G_B_]

Is this scope just a processor, front end and AD converter
That's sending everything to the tablet for processing.

I guess this may be one of the reasons  why it's very slow as it's having to do most of the processing on the tablet causing a lot of  lag


See Mike video 10 miniutes  in:

https://youtu.be/vO712DvGAKA

[Howardlong]

This is with the battery and shields (both sides) removed.

Battery is an 1800mAh single cell LiPo, and amazingly the device still powered up after at least two years in the drawer.

If you take it apart like I just did (instructions here https://manuals.velleman.eu/article.php?id=576) be careful not to bust the on off switch or edge mounted LEDs like I did in step 4. You'll see I had to replace the push switch for a slide switch that I had in stock.

I get an error when on USB whenever I try to hook up a grounded source that there is a ground mismatch and I can't see anything on the scope. This is with the original firmware. I'm about to update it, which is why I took it apart, it wouldn't work with my iPad anymore, apparently there's a patch for IOS 10.

Original hi res images:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ak3HU3AygNouhOF9-CIhhXLk4doxPA
https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ak3HU3AygNouhOF8f44N9tBcXxEAkg

[R_G_B_]

They have a pin compatible version of the ADC

The MAX1193 is an ultra-low-power, dual, 8-bit,
45Msps

No way of accessing the firmware so that one could upgrade the ADC to 45meg samples per channel.

[Howardlong]

I see from the docs that there is a feature that when running this device over USB, you can’t use it on a device with a common ground connection. 

Since upgrading the firmware I can’t get it to work on either a PC or IOS. Indeed, I can no longer find the app on the app store either.

At this point I think I was probably right to leave it in a drawer!

[Avacee]

Is this scope just a processor, front end and AD converter
That's sending everything to the tablet for processing.

I guess this may be one of the reasons  why it's very slow as it's having to do most of the processing on the tablet causing a lot of  lag

Processing appears to be done on the unit.
Page 9/10 of the Protocol (https://www.velleman.eu/downloads/0/information/protocol_wfs210.pdf) doesn't send a sample value but screen position
Quote:
Sample buffer : Channel 1 & channel 2 samples (3 = top / 128 = center / 252 = bottom of screen)
For all timebase settings: 50 samples/div except for 1µs/div: 10 samples/div and for 2µs/div: 20 samples/div

When anything is changed the app sends the "settings" to the unit - Protocol Page 6.

The App simply draws the waveform, triggers, etc.
The app is hitting the CPU because it's trying to maintain a screen refresh rate of 60fps - even when it's not connected or no data has been received.
With a timebase of 1uS/div the unit averages 18 packets per second
With a timebase of 1S/div it averages 5 packets per second.
Edit: The USB does send the data much more frequently though - just tested it and it was sending 1938 packets/sec but of smaller length.

If you want to see the IP packets in Wireshark this is my filter:
(ip.dst == 169.254.1.1 ||  ip.src == 169.254.1.1) && !dns && !icmp && !arp && tcp.len > 0

[Fraser]

Regarding the hardware..... I think HowardLongs images show a pretty well designed and compact DSO unit.

It really is such a great pity that the software side of things is left so wanting.

I had s similar situation with a Wi-Fi spectrum analyser dongle from Ubiquiti. Their software was fully functional but there were enhancements promised that never happened. The Dongle was dropped from their product range without explanation. It turned out that the clever chap who designed the dongle and wrote the software had left the company. No one else could continue the development work in his absence. The product effectively became locked at its current build state with no further development possible.

I wonder if the programmer who wrote the WFS210 firmware and software has left Velleman ? I would have expected the bugs that we are finding to have been addressed quickly if he/she were still in the company.

Not much support visible on the Velleman forum either.

Fraser

[jimmc]

I've been using a variant of Avacee's method...

1  With WFS210 off turn on Tablet
2  Start App select 'Settings' and untick 'Demo Mode'
3  Turn on WFS210 and allow to settle
4  Connect Tablet WiFi to WFS210
5  Back to App 'Settings' screen
6  Back again to App 'Main' screen and it should connect.

If I understand correctly, the common point seems to be to connect to the WFS210 WiFi while the App is in the 'Settings' screen.


I am really torn, the hardware seems good, the Android App appears to be almost there but maybe could be good with a little work.
On the other hand the Windows software is useless and in need of a complete rewrite. (I  haven't got any Apple devices to try.)

For £20 I'm tempted to keep it and hope the someone with more knowledge than me can fix the App.
One thing worries me, if the last firmware update (1443) is dated 24/10/2014, how old are the units with the older version(1423)?

Can somebody confirm the 5, 2 , 1uS problem on the Android App. (Windows version works correctly)

Jim

Fraser, I've just seen your post I think you could very well be right.

[Howardlong]

One comment regarding the board layout is that the vias are too close to the passives, so there is not enough room for solder mask between the via and the pad. This makes the parts look “wobbly” as the solder paste will drag the part towards the via.

I can imagine there being a lot of tombstoning during production because of this. Another option is to cover the vias with solder mask and only expose the pads in the mask layer.

[Avacee]

Can somebody confirm the 5, 2 , 1uS problem on the Android App. (Windows version works correctly)

I confirm that I get the same on the Android App. Doesn't matter on the input frequency it shows the same image for 1, 2, and 5us.

Does your unit freeze after 15 mins of inactivity?

[jimmc]

Hi Avacee,
I can confirm the 15min freeze as you describe, it also happens if you just turn the unit on and leave it without ever connecting.
It does seem pretty accurately 15min, could this be a battery saving feature?
As has been mentioned Wireless can be power hungry.

One other thing, on my unit the BNC earths are at + 1.62v relative to the USB earth. S/C current is 11.3mA

Jim

[janoc]

Regarding the hardware..... I think HowardLongs images show a pretty well designed and compact DSO unit.

It really is such a great pity that the software side of things is left so wanting.

I had s similar situation with a Wi-Fi spectrum analyser dongle from Ubiquiti. Their software was fully functional but there were enhancements promised that never happened. The Dongle was dropped from their product range without explanation. It turned out that the clever chap who designed the dongle and wrote the software had left the company. No one else could continue the development work in his absence. The product effectively became locked at its current build state with no further development possible.

I wonder if the programmer who wrote the WFS210 firmware and software has left Velleman ? I would have expected the bugs that we are finding to have been addressed quickly if he/she were still in the company.

Not much support visible on the Velleman forum either.

Fraser

Well, Velleman has never been known for high quality products - apart from their kits, most of the stuff they are selling are just rebrands of various devices sourced in China. If the original hardware has crappy software/firmware, you are pretty much stuck with it.

They are also well known for their unwillingness to open/document the protocols of most things they sell.

[Avacee]

Hi Avacee,
I can confirm the 15min freeze as you describe, it also happens if you just turn the unit on and leave it without ever connecting.
It does seem pretty accurately 15min, could this be a battery saving feature?
As has been mentioned Wireless can be power hungry.

One other thing, on my unit the BNC earths are at + 1.62v relative to the USB earth. S/C current is 11.3mA

Jim

Think you are right regarding battery saving ... After 35 mins with a powerpack it hadn't frozen .. 15 mins after unplugging it it froze.
Plugging it back into the power pack or into the PC didn't resurrect it ... Firmware Fail :p

I also get the 1.6V.

[Fraser]

I have raised a message on the Velleman support forum.

https://forum.vellemanprojects.eu/t/wfs210-tested-and-this-product-has-issues-request-for-support-comment/27511

Fraser

[Fraser]

This may be the WFS210 App developer at Velleman:

https://github.com/velbn

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-App

It looks like he is still working on it, at least 8 months ago, so there may be hope ?

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

Fraser,

maybe you could  ask them if they have abandoned the hardware could they release the firmware

They have in the past realeased schematics for the HPS,140i

The thing that's very wrong in all this is they continued to sell a product at around £100 that they knew had problems and did not function accordingly.

I wonder how many got their money back?

Velleman should step up to the plate on this I'm perplexed as to how they managed to continue selling this knowing what they did

[Mr. Scram]

Regarding the hardware..... I think HowardLongs images show a pretty well designed and compact DSO unit.

It really is such a great pity that the software side of things is left so wanting.

I had s similar situation with a Wi-Fi spectrum analyser dongle from Ubiquiti. Their software was fully functional but there were enhancements promised that never happened. The Dongle was dropped from their product range without explanation. It turned out that the clever chap who designed the dongle and wrote the software had left the company. No one else could continue the development work in his absence. The product effectively became locked at its current build state with no further development possible.

I wonder if the programmer who wrote the WFS210 firmware and software has left Velleman ? I would have expected the bugs that we are finding to have been addressed quickly if he/she were still in the company.

Not much support visible on the Velleman forum either.

Fraser

Having a product stall out due to someone leaving the company signifies serious management issues. If your standards are up to snuff, including documentation and common standards, someone else should be able to pick up a project with at worst moderate effort.

[trevwhite]

I received one today and plugged it into my Windows 10 machine via USB and the thing works nicely. Couple of things.

Software is basic but I just measured a 10Khz pulse from a switch mode power supply no problem
If you unplug the usb whilst the software is loaded and plug it back in again it has troubles. You have to close the application and start again.

I have not tried any wifi stuff yet, seems that is a can of worms at this stage. But so far for £20 if it does that basic stuff then great. Would be good if it had a logger function to it.

Trev

[R_G_B_]

What version firmware are you running?

I tried windows 10 no luck it keeps locking and I get the error code

Writefile function failed error 121

[trevwhite]

Everything is stock straight out of the box.

Windows software is WFS210 v1.3.0.0

It does start locking up a bit. I find I have to click again the timebase setting and it sorts itself out. I also changed the top right voltage parameter and that really screwed with it. I am running it through a Dynadock usb hub which connects to my pc via a USB 3.0. I think its so close to being usable.

[R_G_B_]

It seems to be running ok now.

It also seems to work ok on windows 10 over wifi


Has it moments but been running it for 20 miniutes stable for now

Ok I guess up to 1 MHz

[R_G_B_]

Had it working very well on android now it' won't connect

Head ache 

[Fraser]

This is the behaviour that baffles me..... it works one day, but not the next. Weird and indicative of an unstable firmware build me thinks. Every time it boots, it is Russian Roulette as to whether it will link with the Android host easily or not.

I am suspicious that the Android APP sends a 'hello, are you there?' Message to the WFS210. If it gets no response, it goes into demo mode. Multiple 'hello, are you there?' Requests might eventually elicit a response and so the link is created.

Fraser

[Fraser]

I suppose the confirmation of the issue would be to create a 'hello, are you there?' (Whatever that may be) message for the WFS210 and then see how often it responds. Monitoring the Wi-Fi data might provide such information but that is not something I can do.

Fraser

[Avacee]

I downloaded the current Github and ran the Android App on my tablet under the debugger.

The App connects using the standard libraries - this doesn't always work - in fact it seems to always fail the first time and this puts it into demo mode.
I've tried varying the connection attempt timeout (default 2s) but no luck.

After a successful connect it reads 7 bytes from the input stream and looks for *HELLO* (inc 2x *).. if it doesn't match then it throws an error and you go into demo mode - and good luck ever connecting 
I've seen this failing in the debugger and within WireShark whereby the data returned is sometimes *H ELLO* (8 bytes) <--- note the space.
Also what can happen is the unit doesn't respond quickly enough so when the input stream is read it is still empty as it reads the data immediately upon connection.
The code doesn't keep waiting for the hello via a timeout .. it reads nothing and fails 

When it goes into what we experience as the "Demo Mode Untick cycle" I have some suspicions on what I think is happening and am trying a few things to improve that initial connection chance.
Alas those pesky beer voucher providing clients have got in the way today.

[Avacee]

Regarding the 1,2,5 us issue.

I've stepped through the code and the Settings packet is being sent to the unit with the correct byte value set.
However it works on Windows so must be something else... still bashing my head against this one

[Fraser]

Avacee
Great investigative work 

I was only kidding when I said I expected a Hello, are you there? Challenge. I did not expect *Hello* to be the real handshake 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Nothing from a Velleman today. I need to be patient though 

Fraser

[Mr. Scram]

Nothing from a Velleman today. I need to be patient though 

Fraser

I wouldn't expect a quick reply, considering the rest of the support hasn't been quite furious either.

[Fraser]

No, that is what I fear. That will, in itself, speak volumes though. An abandoned product line with problems still being sold for significant money...... not great PR for Velleman me thinks.

Fraser

[Avacee]

Found the Android 1,2,5 us bug.

As detailed in the protocol: For all timebase settings: 50 samples/div except for 1µs/div: 10 samples/div and for 2µs/div: 20 samples/div)

The SamplesPerTimebase is calculated once in OnSizeChanged() which is called during the initial layout.
The default TimeBase when the apps starts is 1ms so it's set at 50 samples.
It's never ever calculated again   so when it maps the SampleDataToScreen for 1us and 2us it uses the wrong value.
Edit: Unless you change your screen size which is unlikely :p

Recalculating the ratios for 1us and 2us results in a correctly updating display. 

[Specmaster]

Found the Android 1,2,5 us bug.

As detailed in the protocol: For all timebase settings: 50 samples/div except for 1µs/div: 10 samples/div and for 2µs/div: 20 samples/div)

The SamplesPerTimebase is calculated once in OnSizeChanged() which is called during the initial layout.
The default TimeBase when the apps starts is 1ms so it's set at 50 samples.
It's never ever calculated again   so when it maps the SampleDataToScreen for 1us and 2us it uses the wrong value.
Edit: Unless you change your screen size which is unlikely :p

Recalculating the ratios for 1us and 2us results in a correctly updating display. 

Is there any way the app can updated with all the little gems that you're uncovering and correcting, and then made available for downloading to update our versions as well?

[Mr. Scram]

No, that is what I fear. That will, in itself, speak volumes though. An abandoned product line with problems still being sold for significant money...... not great PR for Velleman me thinks.

Fraser

I don't think they care much. Or maybe they even like it this way, because they always hoped the community would help them out and that's what happening now. Releasing barely functioning software and fully developing some nice software are two almost wholly different matters.

[Avacee]

Regarding the *Hello* message ... a suitably placed Thread.Sleep() means I go straight into Live Mode as it gives the unit time to reply.

Is there any way the app can updated with all the little gems that you're uncovering and correcting, and then made available for downloading to update our versions as well?

On Github the AssemblyInfo.cs version reads 1.0.0 and the version from the Play Store is 1.2.0.
Edit2: The "issues" completed does suggest that is the code for v1.2 and the assemblyinfo.cs is out-of-date
Edit3: And I've just found "1.2" hard coded into the settings editor thus negating the version info 

I can fork and commit a change to Github but then it'd depend on the admin merging it.

For an update via the Play Store Velleman would have to incorporate any bug fixes and update the Play Store. (ie v1.2.1).

I could compile this into a APK and post it but as above I've no idea how up-to-date this GitHub code is and you'd need to allow random APK's from dodgy sources :p

Edit: Next up - why reconnections suck.

[trevwhite]

This is great work, Avacee. Looking forward to seeing how much you can improve things.

[R_G_B_]

Nice work Avacee

Be nice to have this software on a smart phone if possible screen may be a bit small but handy at least  as I always carry my phone than I do a tablet

[Specmaster]

Received mine today, only so far been able to try as a USB scope and first impression was that it sucked but after reading the manual (such as it is) I was able to get it running reasonably OK.  The display is / was very jittery and trying to stabilise it with the trigger level as per instructions on page 11 fig 4.5 is wrong, the 2 yellow dots are the centre lines for the 2 channels and sliding these up and down equates to the position controls per channel on a normal scope. The actual trigger level setting is a solid line that you grab with the mouse and move it or down to select where on the trace you want the trigger to be set at.

The cursor controls and the readouts of the frequency and volts seem to work ok up to 5Mhz in the case of frequency after that it thinks its ready Khz or Hz and the value is also incorrect. The volts does seem to be reasonable accurate however.

The display at approx 5Mhz also gets jumpy again and continues all the way up 25Mhz which is as high as my function generator will go to, so with that in mind, I think this scope is best suited to audio work, anything is just a means of seeing if a signal is present, taking measurements is a no no.

Tomorrow, I give the android wifi approach a trial and see how that compares with the windows experience, which by the for the record, I'm running Windows 10.                   

[Mr. Scram]

Regarding the *Hello* message ... a suitably placed Thread.Sleep() means I go straight into Live Mode as it gives the unit time to reply.

Is there any way the app can updated with all the little gems that you're uncovering and correcting, and then made available for downloading to update our versions as well?

On Github the AssemblyInfo.cs version reads 1.0.0 and the version from the Play Store is 1.2.0.
Edit2: The "issues" completed does suggest that is the code for v1.2 and the assemblyinfo.cs is out-of-date
Edit3: And I've just found "1.2" hard coded into the settings editor thus negating the version info 

I can fork and commit a change to Github but then it'd depend on the admin merging it.

For an update via the Play Store Velleman would have to incorporate any bug fixes and update the Play Store. (ie v1.2.1).

I could compile this into a APK and post it but as above I've no idea how up-to-date this GitHub code is and you'd need to allow random APK's from dodgy sources :p

Edit: Next up - why reconnections suck.

It looks like the Windows application is written in C# for .NET / Visual Studio, right? In that case I may have a gander.

[Avacee]

It looks like the Windows application is written in C# for .NET / Visual Studio, right? In that case I may have a gander.

What's posted on GitHub for WindowsFormApplication1 is a Fake/Mockup - pretty much an empty project

Would take a few hours to duplicate the existing UI for a proper windows app.
Alas it's not a Xamarin Forms app

Be nice to have this software on a smart phone if possible screen may be a bit small but handy at least  as I always carry my phone than I do a tablet

Working on it 

Edit: Well it deploys and runs on an LG G2 mini but its screen resolution is a rather paltry 960x540 so half the buttons aren't visible :p

[bitseeker]

Awesome sleuthing and patching, Avacee!

[Mr. Scram]

It looks like the Windows application is written in C# for .NET / Visual Studio, right? In that case I may have a gander.

What's posted on GitHub for WindowsFormApplication1 is a Fake/Mockup - pretty much an empty project

Would take a few hours to duplicate the existing UI for a proper windows app.
Alas it's not a Xamarin Forms app

So they didn't even bother to post the actual almost nonfunctioning application? Not that I would be very interested in actually using that fairly horrid UI, but it could make a starting point for something better.

[medical-nerd]

Hiya

For £20 I was prepared to take a chance, if nothing else I thought I could use it as a data-logger.
Then after buying it the bad reviews started coming in here. Still had fingers crossed until it arrived today and left it to charge.
I'm so happy that I didn't buy this item when it was available at full price. What a load of shite.
I've always thought that Velleman products were overpriced but were interested in some of them, now I will never buy anything from them after this experience.
The scope is still available at other electronics distributors at prices ranging from £70 to £145!!!

Since the scope has been available since 2014 and was a subject of a Hackaday article at that time I'm surprised that there has not been any other development of another interface or logger application for this beastie. I can only surmise that people started and soon lost interest in disgust.
I've searched and can find no evidence of development of such an application.

I have used it on Windows 10. No problems with installation or connecting to it initially using USB. I've left it running displaying noise for 3 hours - no lockups until I tried to change anything - immediate crash.

The export function crashes it immediately.. 

Cheers.

[Howardlong]

Ignoring the software, from a hardware perspective, the non-ground bnc ground connector when used over USB renders this device practically useless for any microcontroller applications attached to the same computer, a common use case I’d suggest, in particular Arduino, but anywhere where you might need a debugger or otherwise need to connect to the computer. Sure, you could isolate, but if you’re going to those lengths you’d be better off getting a different scope.

[kripton2035]

I didnt look any further, but wouldnt it be easy to adapt this scope to the open source sigrok software ?
or is it mainly a hardware or firmware problem(s) ?
ps: at this price, even if it's crap, I bought one !

[R_G_B_]

I checked the ADC and there a pin compatible 45 Meg sample per channel ADC. So  could it be a possibility to increase the sample rate

Need access to firmware to do this and velleman won't release it.
Im not sure if there's any other way around this ?

[Fraser]

NEWS......

Velleman have responded to my comments.

Their developer has changed some of the code after reading this thread 

The 15 minutes sleep issue is in fact an intentional sleep mode. No comment on whether it should have an auto revert from such though.

There may be light at the end of this tunnel..... please keep posting your findings and improvements to the software and maybe the developer will incorporate them into a new release of the official software.

Fraser

[Fraser]

The Velleman forum contains the details of what the developer has changed.

https://forum.vellemanprojects.eu/t/wfs210-tested-and-this-product-has-issues-request-for-support-comment/27511/2

Fraser

[tggzzz]

The Velleman forum contains the details of what the developer has changed.

https://forum.vellemanprojects.eu/t/wfs210-tested-and-this-product-has-issues-request-for-support-comment/27511/2

On that page you note "I regret that it is getting a bit of a “bashing” on the forum, but I believe some relatively simple changes may make this a very useful little DSO of which you will become proud."

I concur.

The subsequent question is how to apply such buxfixes.

[Fraser]

I could not see a change to correct the iffy connection problem so I have brought this to the developers attention. I hope Avacee does not mind, but I provided his excellent analysis comments in the Velleman post. He deserves fair recognition for his work on that forum as well. He is, after all, actively fixing problems on this unit.

I would expect Velleman to release an updated App as they have before. Thankfully the changes recommended by Avocee reside in the Android app and not the units firmware as that requires more work to install an update.

Fraser

[Avacee]

I don't mind at all - bashed my head against connection reliability a bit more and have just done 50 back to back successful connections straight into LiveMode.
If you exited the software in livemode it'll try and start livemode (invariably fails) and if you exit in demo mode it goes into demo mode.
I want reliable LiveMode straight away 

I've added to your velleman thread with what I changed in the TcpConnection.Connect() routine with a link to a CodeProject thread which I used.

I also added for my own use a LongClick event on the "ChannelX" buttons to centre the waveform. Was annoying me trying to drag those 2 markers on top of each other
Edit: With luck the developer will copy+paste in the provided code on the velleman website :p

[Fraser]

Avacee,

I just want to thank you for spending your valuable time working on this for the benefit of us all.

You have gained Hero status in my books 

Thank you for directly engaging on the Velleman site. We may see significant improvement in the WFS210 if Velleman realise that it can be greatly improved through some App changes. Without your comments, I could not have helped Velleman rectify the issues.

Fraser

[lukier]

I just got mine. Didn't try the Andoroid app and don't have Apple stuff, just tried Win7 app in a VirtualBox, seemed OK.

The protocol seems simple, so adding at least Sigrok support (to see the waveforms in Pulseview) should be relatively straightforward.

However, as I understand this device can work only in AP mode? I cannot tell it over USB-Serial to connect with WiFi to my router?

If so, then I'm more than happy to use this over USB, but of course without this stupid separate ground "feature". Does anyone has any idea why the BNC ground is 1.6V off the main ground? Is this by design or is this some stupid safety feature?

[jimmc]

Hi Avacee & and Fraser,

I second Fraser's comments, they express my gratitude for your hard work more eloquently than I could have done.

I should also thank Fraser himself for his efforts starting the ball rolling.

I confess I've gone from being dubious about keeping the unit to thinking it's a great bargain.

Thanks again gentlemen,

Jim

[Specmaster]

I have used it on Windows 10. No problems with installation or connecting to it initially using USB. I've left it running displaying noise for 3 hours - no lockups until I tried to change anything - immediate crash.

The export function crashes it immediately.. 

Cheers.

I concur with you regarding Windows 10 via USB is when its at it most useful, however I personally would only recommend this for someone working predominately with audio equipment where the display is much more stable and the cursors appear at their most accurate.

If using it say above 20Khz then I'd say thats fine if you are more interested in generally observing a waveform pattern rather then taking accurate measurements from the screen.

On wifi, with a tablet I cannot recommend it to anyone, it is so laggy to the point of being usable and while my phone can see the wifi and log onto it, the app is not however to be found in playstore, it is however for the tablet? For the record I was testing it on Samsung Tab 10 model number SM-T520 running Android 4.4.2 and the phone is Samsung Galaxy J5(2016) model number SM-J510FN running Android version 6.0.1 

So overall it is reasonable for audio working via USB on a computer running Windows upto Windows 10. Maybe if they do release an update for the app on wi-fi then it might well become usable.

I cannot find this "Export function" that crashes it immediately, anywhere on either Android or Windows???

[Avacee]

https://forum.vellemanprojects.eu/t/wfs210-problem-android-mobile-phone/10080/2
Quote from Velleman:
The app is indeed only available for tablet this is simply because there is no layout made for smartphones, it would need a complete redesign of the layout. There are a lot of buttons that need to be displayed at the same time which takes a lot of screen space.

In another thread on their forum  (my google-fu is weak atm) they mention it's limited to 600dp - effectively 7inches or above (fnar fnar :p).
I did run it on an LG G2 mini (540x960) but it only showed half the buttons as the sizes and placements are hard-coded

Export is only on the Windows App ... Menu -> File -> Export (Ctrl-X)
It places the csv output into %LOCALAPPDATA%\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\Velleman\WFS210 
It also puts a JSON file there with details of the capture - ie Timebase, V/div, Coupling, etc.
It places 4096 values into the csv - it doesn't stream them in continuously - same 4096 samples with WiFi or USB.

I haven't had the windows export fail on me - If you start the app with "Run As Administrator" does the export still crash?

I agree the tablet version isn't worth much for logging since it uses an Access Point so you are pretty much limited to logging to internal storage.

I wish Velleman would release the Windows Code    ... and firmware!
I hope Velleman submit an update to the Play Store sooner rather than later.

Edit: Now I've got some vaguely working tablet software I'm actually quite liking the unit for the £20 though if I'd paid £100 for this I'd have sent it back and sworn to never buy Velleman again :p

[Specmaster]

All I get on my computer under the file tab is connect and exit??

[Avacee]

Weird .. what version?
I'm on v1.3.0.0 downloaded from here: https://www.velleman.eu/support/downloads/?code=WFS210

[Specmaster]

Version V1.1.0.295 also downloaded from their site yesterday?

I'll install the newer one and give that a whizz later.

[bitseeker]

Since the scope has been available since 2014 and was a subject of a Hackaday article at that time I'm surprised that there has not been any other development of another interface or logger application for this beastie. I can only surmise that people started and soon lost interest in disgust.
I've searched and can find no evidence of development of such an application.

I suspect your speculation may be correct. At full price, one expects the thing to work properly or it goes back. However, at 80% off the retail price, it falls into impulse-buy, experimental territory where much more can be tolerated and software/hardware hacking flourishes.

NEWS......

Velleman have responded to my comments.

Their developer has changed some of the code after reading this thread 

Amazing news, Fraser. EEV power!

[Specmaster]

New driver installed and the functionality has not changed as far the USB connected device is concerned, so I still stand by my original comments about it best suited in that configuration to audio work. Above that frequency range the frequency reading begin to get flakey around the 1Mhz to 5Mhz, above 5Mhz, give up because it starts to read as Hz then and is miles off the target reporting something like 10Mhz as 780Hz.

[Fraser]

Specmaster,

We must remember that the ADC sampling rate on each channel is only 10Ms/S. That would normally dictate a maximum useful frequency range of DC to 1MHz (Sampling rate/10) As you climb above 1Mhz you get fewer and fewer samples per cycle and not only does the waveshape become distorted, but the triggering can also start to have trouble if it is derived from the ADC output. At 5MHz you are only getting 2 samples per waveform cycle..... not a good situation as the sample point can fall at different points on the waveform and is not representative of the waveform shape, even if a simple sine wave. For 5MHz waveforms you really want at least a 50Ms/S ADC sampling the waveform. 10 samples per cycle can produce an acceptable wave shape and a pretty solid trigger point.

I would not recommend use of this DSO for signals above 1MHz unless waveshape accuracy is not a concern and some trigger jitter can be tolerated.

Fraser

[Specmaster]

Fraser

Yes I agree with you, ideally its best in the audio spectrum because of the sampling rate, and it produces the best steady displays at below 1KHz. For me this is more of a novelty item, I would like to get working better on a tablet without the massive lag it displayed on my Galaxy and then it will be used like a signal tracer for audio circuits. It certainly is not of Velleman's best products, they are capable of producing a far better version.

[djos]

I checked the ADC and there a pin compatible 45 Meg sample per channel ADC. So  could it be a possibility to increase the sample rate

Need access to firmware to do this and velleman won't release it.
Im not sure if there's any other way around this ?

So who wants to swap one in first and see if it "just works" without FW mods?

[R_G_B_]

Its actually dual 8bit not dual 45Meg samples
I miss read the convention.

From the data sheet:

 Pin-compatible
versions of the MAX1193 are also available. Refer to the
MAX1191 data sheet for 7.5Msps, and the MAX1192
data sheet for 22Msps.

I'm not sure if it would work by just changing the ADC ?

[djos]

Its actually dual 8bit not dual 45Meg samples
I miss read the convention.

From the data sheet:

 Pin-compatible
versions of the MAX1193 are also available. Refer to the
MAX1191 data sheet for 7.5Msps, and the MAX1192
data sheet for 22Msps.

I'm not sure if it would work by just changing the ADC ?

I guess it depends on how the FW was written. eg does it have a hard limit to match the ADC capabilities or does it simply operate as fast as the ADC will allow? Could be other bottlenecks too, but heck it'd be fun to see what happens.

PS, due being QFN, not BGA, it should be easy to replace - I've only got one coming (from UK to Aus) so im not willing to try the mod on it unless someone else confirms it works first.

[Fraser]

Velleman have responded again on their forum. They appear very open to assistance with this products development.

Fraser

[bitseeker]

Velleman going from to

[Fraser]

Let us hope so 

I have always found Velleman to be helpful in the past so hoped they still are.
So far its looking promising.

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

The thing about this is if Fraser had not posted  on  thier forum
They would have carried on the way they have regardless.

Yes they are sorting it out now. But it's really their job to be sorting out problems with there product with  quality Control and testing.

It would  Be kind  of them to also  release the firmware.
Like they did the software

somebody can then  have a ago at improving firmware even  further.

[Howardlong]

The thing about this is if Fraser had not posted there on  thier forum
They would have carried on the way they have regardless.

Yes they are sorting it out now. But it's really their job to be sorting out problems with there product with  quality Control and testing.

It would  Be kind  of them to also  release the firmware.
Like they did the software

somebody can then  have a ago at improving firmware even  further.

It’s pretty astonishing that it made it through in its current state as far as retail shelves to be honest. I wonder how many of them, like mine, are sitting in drawers gathering dust after the end user gave up two years ago? I can imagine the returns rate is high.

[Specmaster]

The thing about this is if Fraser had not posted there on  thier forum
They would have carried on the way they have regardless.

Yes they are sorting it out now. But it's really their job to be sorting out problems with there product with  quality Control and testing.

It would  Be kind  of them to also  release the firmware.
Like they did the software

somebody can then  have a ago at improving firmware even  further.

It’s pretty astonishing that it made it through in its current state as far as retail shelves to be honest. I wonder how many of them, like mine, are sitting in drawers gathering dust after the end user gave up two years ago? I can imagine the returns rate is high.

Just maybe the previous complaints that they received did not have the same gravity as the one Fraser made, nor as elegantly made. In it he made reference to the fact this was a large forum / group of  hobbyists, professional electronic engineers and design engineers and the EEV blog is known worldwide and bad publicity is something that they would wish to avoid. There is a good chance that previously any complaints might well have been from individuals who did not appear to carry any significance globally, unlike this forum?

To that end, we should say thank you to Fraser for getting them to revisit this and resolve some issues. If they release the firmware as well I'm sure the product would be improved immensely.

Fraser you have done a sterling job here and I for one thank you for your efforts so far and determination to see this through, Thank you, you're a star.

[bitseeker]

I don't own one of these, yet, but I second Specmaster's sentiments and look forward to seeing how things progress.

If the software/firmware drastically improve, I suppose the price might go back up.

[jimmc]

At present the Android App does not give any indication if the WiFi link fails after being connected - the display just freezes and most, but not all, of the buttons stop working.
Would it be possible to flag link failure in a more obvious way?

Jim

[3db]

The thing about this is if Fraser had not posted  on  thier forum
They would have carried on the way they have regardless.

Yes they are sorting it out now. But it's really their job to be sorting out problems with there product with  quality Control and testing.

It would  Be kind  of them to also  release the firmware.
Like they did the software

somebody can then  have a ago at improving firmware even  further.

Velleman  are selling the thing  for £20.
Look at the shit Microsoft,Adobe etc. have been selling for decades.
It's £20 !!   

[Mr. Scram]

Velleman  are selling the thing  for £20.
Look at the shit Microsoft,Adobe etc. have been selling for decades.
It's £20 !!   

I suspect storing the stockpile has become more expensive than dumping them at cost or possibly even at a loss. Sometimes shifting things is more important than actually making a profit.

[R_G_B_]

Maybe they should also dump the firmware on the customer if that's the case.

[R_G_B_]

I have received another one of these

it seems theres a firmware problem with this not just software i was able to compare two different units with two different versions of firmware.

The one with the latter version of firmware which I posted details on here Connects more frequently and easily than the one i just received which does not work on a WiFi connection at all although it does connect because if you turn of the oscilloscope you get a pop up message on windows regarding connection being lost so a connection process is taking place somehow.  However  it will connect on windows 10 via USB.


Must there also be a problem with older versions of the firmware regarding wifi

[WaveyDipole]

I ordered one from the Maplin outlet via Amazon and received it today. It comes without any probes which seems not to be mentioned anywhere. It would have been helpful for this to have been stated. While somewhat irritating it turns out that it did not matter in this case. Unfortunately it seems that this particular unit is having problems with connecting to Windows over USB so I couldn't do much with it anyway. Nothing came up when I first plugged it in to the USB port and it didn't get listed as a USB device when I selected the USB connection in the software. Eventually it did briefly appear as a USB serial device in the device manager on COM4. During this time I was briefly able to connect to it in the Vellman software but this was short lived and it soon disappeared again, so connection does seem to be erratic. Unfortunately I did not manage to note what firmware version it had. There is a light under the exclamation mark symbol in the triangle so I assume it must have a fault condition of some sort. The seal on the box had been broken and the tape on the plastic bag it is wrapped in was peeling off so likely had been opened before, so I can't help wondering whether this is a returns item that has been sent back out again. Looks like I will be returning it.

[Mr. Scram]

I ordered one from the Maplin outlet via Amazon and received it today. It comes without any probes which seems not to be mentioned anywhere. It would have been helpful for this to have been stated. While somewhat irritating it turns out that it did not matter in this case. This particular unit does not appear to be recognized by Windows over USB. Nothing  comes up when I plug it in to the USB port and it is not listed as a USB device when I select the USB connection in the software. There is a light under the exclamation mark symbol in the triangle so I assume it must have a fault condition of some sort. The seal on the box had been broken and the tape on the plastic bag it is wrapped in was peeling off so likely had been opened before, so I can't help wondering whether this is a returns item that has been sent back out again. Looks like I will be returning it.

The exclamation mark means that a possible difference in earth potential is detected between USB and probe. Fraser warned us about this a few pages ago. I thought I posted about the probes not being included, but I can't seem to find my post, so I guess that didn't get posted correctly somehow. Even though it's a bit curious not to include them, especially considering the original price of the unit, the Velleman product videos are upfront about what's included.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vellerman-wfs210-wireless-oscilloscope-for-only-20-!/msg1312999/#msg1312999

[WaveyDipole]

The exclamation mark means that a possible difference in earth potential is detected between USB and probe. Fraser warned us about this a few pages ago.

Thanks for the clarification, although this light came on immediately when powering up and without a probe being connected, so there would not have been the conditions present to detect anything at this point?

I thought I posted about the probes not being included, but I can't seem to find my post, so I guess that didn't get posted correctly somehow. Even though it's a bit curious not to include them, especially considering the original price of the unit, the Velleman product videos are upfront about what's included.

Thanks for highlighting this in your previous post. Cheap probes are available on eBay if one is prepared to wait a couple of weeks for them to arrive from the far east, so its not that big a deal, especially at this reduced price, but it just would have been helpful to have had at least one basic cheap probe included with the unit. At the original price I would definitely have expected one.

BTW, I also tend to agree with your comments to 3db. This seems more of a case of a poor product that did not sell at the expected price and the vendor is now trying to shift their stockpile. Maybe I have a dud unit or an early problematic firmware. Whatever the case, this thread has been upfront in pointing out that this device is not without its problems so although disappointing, this was not entirely unexpected. Caveat emptor!

[medical-nerd]

Hiya

The exclamation mark means that a possible difference in earth potential is detected between USB and probe. Fraser warned us about this a few pages ago.

Thanks for the clarification, although this light came on immediately when powering up and without a probe being connected, so there would not have been the conditions present to detect anything at this point?

From the user manual - the light with the exclamation mark indicates:
"
USB / Charger connected.
Caution: Probe ground and charger ground at different voltage level.
Never use the WFS210 with a USB connection when the signal source is
powered trough USB.
"

So it is not an error message but indicating that there is a USB connection and that other USB connected devices should now not be probed by the device.

Cheers

[R_G_B_]

There seems to be other wireless oscilloscope on the market
This one's Bluetooth

Sampling rates only 2 meg samples but they seemed to have done a more functionality than the velleman regarding software
http://bluedso.com

[sorenkir]

Hi,

I have received mine from Amazon UK yesterday:
 Firmware 4.4 Build 1708.
 Windows Application V1.1.0.295.
 Android Application V1.2

The first hour with it was quite disappointing:
I have tried it on my old XP machine connected with USB. I did not succeed to have any trace on the screen although I heard relay clicks when changing settings. Tried a scope calibration and I had to abort it after a few minutes of no visible activity. Then switched to WiFi with no more success until I noticed that it was trying to connect to the IP address 169.254.1.1.
After changing this address to the correct address 192.168.1.1, I managed to connect to the oscilloscope, but still no trace. When playing with the controls I eventually started to see a trace but with a huge offset and no sync. Replaying the calibration finally fixed all issues and I managed to have the toy work reasonably well.



500kHz seems to be the maximum usable frequency:



Above that frequency, the trace is slightly distorted, but the triggering is unstable :



No peak detect, the sync. pulse is not always sampled (but it can perfectly trigger on the pulse) :



Did not check the accuracy.

At first, I did not give much attention to the warning message when used with a USB link (Probe ground and charger ground at different voltage level).
In fact, when using such a connection, it is impossible to connect the ground pin of the oscilloscope to the ground of the computer. Doing that sends the trace out of the screen, with no way to have it come back.
As a consequence, an isolated USB link or a laptop with no ground connection seems mandatory to use it on a bench.

The android application did not work on my old Sony XPeria Tab (Android Jelly Bean): it is able to connect to the scope, but the interface is totally unresponsive.
It seems OK on a more recent Samsung Tab.

Michel.

[Fraser]

All seems to have gone quiet on the Velleman front. They last asked for a link to the GitHub branch for correcting the link issue. Nothing more heard.

We need to keep this Velleman call 'open' so please do make comment on Velleman support forum in the thread that I started for this unit.

We need a new Android app release with the suggested corrections and a revisit of the units firmware may be order ?

Fraser

[Fraser]

Velleman have asked Avacee for a link to his excellent work on the App. Not sure if Acacee has seen this request, so copying it here.

"@Avacee Thanks for the tips!
Do you have link to your GitHub fork?
If you feel your code is stable don’t hesitate to do a pull request."

Avacee, are you able to help the chap at Velleman please ?

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

I think if they have given up then why don't they open up the firmware hardware and software.

Lame excuse to say they released this to the hacking community when all they opened up is the software.

What use is that if the firmware also has problems which seems to be the case. Some people on here have said it's only £20. What about those who paid around 5 times this much. I have other oscilloscopes and even if it's £20 for this one. I would have expected it to work because that's what to  expected.

[janoc]

I think if they have given up then why don't they open up the firmware hardware and software.

Lame excuse to say they released this to the hacking community when all they opened up is the software.

What use is that if the firmware also has problems which seems to be the case. Some people on here have said it's only £20. What about those who paid around 5 times this much. I have other oscilloscopes and even if it's £20 for this one. I would have expected it to work because that's what to  expected.

They actually may not have the firmware or the rights to open it. That is quite common when you just rebadge stuff or have it developed for you.

[Fraser]

R_G_B,

I have not seen any evidence that Velleman have abandoned this product yet.

I contacted their chap on the forum today and he fully intends to release a new version of the Android App just as soon as he can incorporate Avacee's improvements.

As to release of the firmware, much will depend upon Velleman's ownership of that firmwares rights. We assume Velleman designed the WFS210 but that is not a proven fact at this time. It may be a bought in design ?

I have made it clear to Velleman that this forum contains members who are keen to see this product improve and who will help where able. They may, or may not be interested in spending much time on this product depending upon its history and projected life in their range.

As to the units sold for £20, I am under no illusions that Maplin are effectively dumping unwanted stock. This unit may have caused them problems with returns, so they just want rid.

I doubt people who paid £100 for such a unit, in it's current state, would want to keep it when a refund may be obtained.

Fraser

[Mr. Scram]

After some messing about, I got things working. Initially, the WFS210 wouldn't be recognized using USB. Windows wouldn't even indicate that something had been plugged in. I swapped the USB cable and tested the new one with another device before use. Still nothing. After trying all the possible permutations of installing the software, rebooting and powering up the device and starting the program, I decided to test yet another USB cable. This time I took one from a microcontroller development kit, so it should be a decent quality one. Suddenly, the oscilloscope shows up! It's either quite picky about the cable used, or I just got lucky this time. I did notice the quality cable snapped into the socket in a much more convincing fashion. After this, the WFS210 still didn't yield any traces, but a quick self calibration fixed that problem. It actually works!

First impressions aren't terrible. The hardware seems to be better made than feared. I see little wrong there. The software isn't as ugly as I feared it to be. However, functionality is very, very basic. Lots of data I would expect to be available is missing, or requires manually measuring it. As people have discovered, viewing frequencies at even one tenth of the specifications is a challenge. All in all, it so far seems to be a nice-to-have-toy. I don't think I would be happy if I paid $100+ for this. At this price, it's not terrible.

I just wish Velleman didn't lie so blatantly about the bandwidth. If waveforms don't turn out looking nice at higher frequencies, that's not really great. But the fact that the equipment can't even tell 720 KHz from 8 MHz means the specifications are completely fabricated.

[Mr. Scram]

I might be missing something, but is it possible to have the software tell you the frequency without setting markers, or to turn off a channel?

[Avacee]

Apologies for going quiet. I'm away until Friday.
I've seen Velleman's comment about a Pull Request but I need to test my changes to check they are stable. Any testing volunteers?
I was in the middle of adding a demo/live/connected indicator hence why I didn't do the Pull Request before coming away.
Also had a suggestion via PM to add a regular keep-alive ping to stop the 15 min timeout.

Regarding turning off a channel keep increasing the V/div.

[jimmc]

Count me in as a volunteer.

Jim

[kripton2035]

I will try for iOS as my wfs210 should arrive this week.

[Fraser]

Avacee,

I am happy to test the updated App as well

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

I have two units with two versions of firmware.

I'm also willing  test out   Avacee  updated app.

[Mr. Scram]

Apologies for going quiet. I'm away until Friday.
I've seen Velleman's comment about a Pull Request but I need to test my changes to check they are stable. Any testing volunteers?
I was in the middle of adding a demo/live/connected indicator hence why I didn't do the Pull Request before coming away.
Also had a suggestion via PM to add a regular keep-alive ping to stop the 15 min timeout.

Regarding turning off a channel keep increasing the V/div.

That's hidden well. Thanks!

[Mr. Scram]

The more I tinker with this thing, the more it irks me that it's so close to being pretty good. The hardware seems to be constructed reasonably well and the software isn't horrible to look at or work with. If it would actually meet its rated bandwidth and if the software had a bit more of the niceties normal oscilloscopes have, it would be a very cool addition to the workshop indeed.

Now, it's basically a marginally useful toy. Damn it, Velleman. You were so close.

[b_force]

The more I tinker with this thing, the more it irks me that it's so close to being pretty good. The hardware seems to be constructed reasonably well and the software isn't horrible to look at or work with. If it would actually meet its rated bandwidth and if the software had a bit more of the niceties normal oscilloscopes have, it would be a very cool addition to the workshop indeed.

Now, it's basically a marginally useful toy. Damn it, Velleman. You were so close.

I have that with a lot of products (not only from Velleman).

If they just.......

[Mr. Scram]

I have that with a lot of products (not only from Velleman).

If they just.......

Sure, that's the bane of tinkering with things. As soon as you discover things can be changed, made better, you never buy a finished product again. Everything is just a starting point for something better. Soon, everything becomes a project, even before you buy it. Been there, done that.

This one strikes an awkward balance, though. It's like having a word on the tip of your tongue. So close to useful, yet mostly useless.

[R_G_B_]

Velleman hps140i jitter problem over a certain frequency there was a discussion about it on this forum. Velleman asked customers who had bought them to return them  to velleman for the  firmware to be updated.  Would this mean they own the firmware  and would it also seem likely in this case.  They do there firmware in-house ?

They have a product that they think works in terms of the  oscilloscope  And they just develop variations of the same product.
Using what they have and know

[b_force]

I have that with a lot of products (not only from Velleman).

If they just.......

This one strikes an awkward balance, though. It's like having a word on the tip of your tongue. So close to useful, yet mostly useless.

I have that with a lot of products (not only from Velleman).

If they just.......

 

It's exactly what I meant with my previous post.
There are so many products that are ALMOST there, but because it's not quite there it's a total fail.
It's so unfortunate, you just need a little more time and energy to get it right.
I just don't get why (certain) companies make this mistake over and over again.

[Pinkus]

I am tempted to test one and use it at my secondary work desk and to give one to my nephew.
Unfortunately Maplin_Outlet does not export.
Anbody from UK willing to order one or two and to send it to me to Germany?
I will cover all costs of course.
Thx

[Fraser]

The nice chap at Velleman (Vel337) has just advised me that they have kindly released the firmware to us 

Here it is.....

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-Firmware

Thanks Velleman 

Fraser

[Mr. Scram]

The nice chap at Velleman (Vel337) has just advised me that they have kindly released the firmware to us 

Here it is.....

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-Firmware

Thanks Velleman 

Fraser

Not just the firmware, but the actual source files of the firmware? That's awesome!

[Fraser]

Yes, I saw that.

Not that I have the skills to do much with them, but someone else might ?

I am pleased to see this move from Velleman though. It suggests that they are embracing this forums comments and intentions to improve their product. 

Now I need to find out whether I can obtain a firmware update for my HPS140i scopes.... I have one already upgraded and 5 with original firmware that has the Trigger issue.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Pinkus,

I would offer to help but sadly I am ill at the moment so house bound. I hope someone else can help you.

Fraser

[lukier]

Wow, firmware sources - nice!

However, I didn't find anything related to the grounding issue, so I guess it is not some software "safety" feature, but it is in the hardware design. Pity.

[Fraser]

I am about to write to VEL337 to see if Velleman are able to release the area of the schematic covering the DC offset that appears at the input connector ground connection.

They obviously need to protect their design from copying now that the firmware has been released, but they may reveal part of the schematic to us for possible modification.

Fraser

[Howardlong]

The nice chap at Velleman (Vel337) has just advised me that they have kindly released the firmware to us 

Here it is.....

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-Firmware

Thanks Velleman 

Fraser

First look at a dozen or so files, it looks pretty well written. Tested, maybe not so much. ;-)

While I might have the skills and the tools to help, I lack the time :-(

If the hardware grounding thing wasn’t a “thing” I might be more encouraged, but I fear it’s a fundamental problem: finger in the air suggests they cheaped out on bipolar supplies, i.e, no bipolar supply at all.

[bitseeker]

The nice chap at Velleman (Vel337) has just advised me that they have kindly released the firmware to us 

Here it is..... https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-Firmware

That's amazing! Posted on Github, no less. Good on ya, Velleman.

Hope you feel better soon, Fraser!

[sorenkir]

I am tempted to test one and use it at my secondary work desk and to give one to my nephew.
Unfortunately Maplin_Outlet does not export.
Anbody from UK willing to order one or two and to send it to me to Germany?
I will cover all costs of course.
Thx

Did you try amazon.co.uk ?
I have bought one from them (£20) with my amazon.fr account and they shipped to France for £4.10.
Michel.

[fremen67]

I am tempted to test one and use it at my secondary work desk and to give one to my nephew.
Unfortunately Maplin_Outlet does not export.
Anbody from UK willing to order one or two and to send it to me to Germany?
I will cover all costs of course.
Thx

You can order it from amazon.co.uk for £20 and have it delivered to Germany for £4.10. Just don't choose Maplin as seller but amazon. I ordered one this way on October 2th and got it delivered today in France. I just checked with a German address and it seems to be accepted to.

[PA0PBZ]

You can order it from amazon.co.uk for £20 and have it delivered to Germany for £4.10. Just don't choose Maplin as seller but amazon. I ordered one this way on October 2th and got it delivered today in France. I just checked with a German address and it seems to be accepted to.

I just did order one that way but they say out of stock with no indication of when it will be back in stock.

[kripton2035]

mine arrived today also in France, ordered from amazon uk seller amazon.

[Pinkus]

Thanks for the hint with Amazon sorenkir and fremen67. I just ordered through Amazon.uk.
oh and: I wish you get well soon Fraser!

[b_force]

"This seller does not deliver to the Netherlands"
So apparently Germany is fine, but not NL 

Amazon is soooo weird sometimes.

[Specmaster]

"This seller does not deliver to the Netherlands"
So apparently Germany is fine, but not NL 

Amazon is soooo weird sometimes.

Try the Dutch Amazon site.

[PA0PBZ]

"This seller does not deliver to the Netherlands"

It worked for me so I guess you picked the wrong seller.

[kripton2035]

you must choose amazon as the seller. the other doesnt export.

[Specmaster]

you must choose amazon as the seller. the other doesnt export.

By this kripton2305 means to make sure that the item is sold by Amazon and not one of their market place sellers, which is precisely what I to would guess is what you did.

[PA0PBZ]

I think this is the correct link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK

[b_force]

I think this is the correct link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK

No, this is;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Btw, Amazon Netherlands is just sad, they don't have anything or for ridiculous prices.
Most people in NL just go on Amazon.de or Amazon.co.uk

[PA0PBZ]

I think this is the correct link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK

No, this is;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

I don't see a difference

[b_force]

I think this is the correct link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK

No, this is;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

I don't see a difference

The difference for me is that I get the same message with your link, that they don't deliver to NL.
(double checked that in a different browser)
Like I said, Amazon works weird sometimes......

[Pinkus]

I think this is the correct link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK

No, this is;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MD7VSYK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

I don't see a difference

The difference for me is that I get the same message with your link, that they don't deliver to NL.
(double checked that in a different browser)
Like I said, Amazon works weird sometimes......

Looks like you are in the same situation I was before - before I was told out that Amazonc.uk is shipping this item to Germany.
PM me if I shall order one for you and then send it to the Netherlands. I will do then.

[R_G_B_]

 :So now we have the firmware it should be possible to add a faster ADC.

[Mr. Scram]

:So now we have the firmware it should be possible to add a faster ADC.

Yeah, that suddenly seems very viable. I'm just not quite sure I want to invest in another WFS210 to try it

[Howardlong]

I spent 20 minutes with the firmware sources on my commute home today. It will almost compile on MPLAB X IDE 4.01 and XC16 v1.24. There is a deprecated file dependency, generic.h, which is dropped in recent xc16 versions.

The last bit of the jigsaw is in the final build step where it is looking for bootloader.hex, but it’s not in the sources. I assume this is a USB HID bootloader generated separately. The GUI will not simply let me remove the file from the project, so I’ll have to work a bit more on that.

The bootloader might have been deliberately removed if it had, say, AES encryption keys or similar in it. However as far as I know the only way to update the device is through the programming header inside. Maybe the bootloader just doesn’t work... anyway from the code I’ve examined, I doubt that will be much of a hinderance.

Regrettably I am working all weekend at a customer implementation so I won’t have any opportunity to work on this, but then I wasn’t intending to ever start anyway! It would be good to fix the unreliable wifi at least.

As I mentioned earlier, the code is really quite well laid out and readable. I’m not clear yet why they chose the dspic device they did as I’ve yet to see any use of the DSP. It is one of the very few dspics with a USB phy, but I suspect one of the many pic24 devices with USB would’ve worked just fine too.

[PA0PBZ]

Just got a mail from Amazon UK that my order has been dispatched (was out of stock) and should arrive Wednesday. Total £24.27 / EUR 28.15 so not too bad.

[Specmaster]

"This seller does not deliver to the Netherlands"
So apparently Germany is fine, but not NL 

Amazon is soooo weird sometimes.

Apparently Amazon UK does sell to the Netherlands as this quote will demonstrate, you must have selected a person selling through their "Marketplace" rather than Amazon it self. Why not try again?

Just got a mail from Amazon UK that my order has been dispatched (was out of stock) and should arrive Wednesday. Total £24.27 / EUR 28.15 so not too bad.

[Howardlong]

I should just add that the sources compiled fully once I’d removed the bootloader.hex, but for the IDE to remove it I had to restart the IDE. Lacking time, I’ve not proceeded any further than that.

[Howardlong]

Oh, I meant to mention, while looking through the code on a short train journey on Saturday morning (I reiterate, it’s very readable) it appears to use a comparator (ISTR on chip) and an input compare peripheral for the trigger.

[Bicurico]

Just ordered one... Couldn't help it... 

I had tried before, a few weeks ago, but I am 100% sure that Amazon UK would not ship to Portugal. Tried right now and this time it worked. They must have changed something.

Curious about this device.

Regards,
Vitor

[Fraser]

VEL337 has kindly added the missing boot loader to the GitHub. It got accidentally omitted when he did the first upload.

Fraser

[tggzzz]

VEL337 has kindly added the missing boot loader to the GitHub. It got accidentally omitted when he did the first upload.

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere...

I'm starting from the point of considering upgrading firmware, iff it is simple. !simple would be any of having to install a development environment, or needing arcane hardware to transfer a binary to the scope, or requiring a post XP windows.

Is there a complete definition of prerequisites and procedures somewhere?

[Fraser]

Velleman detail the firmware update process on their support pages for the WFS210.

It involves reprogramming the PIC chip with a Microchip PicKit 3 or similar. No firmware upgrade path via USB.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Here is the firmware update instruction manual that Velleman provided for their new iOS updated firmware.

https://manuals.velleman.eu/article.php?id=576

Warning some people found the released firmware worse than that which was already installed. It is possible to brick the WFS210 as well. Search for 'firmware' on the Velleman WFS210 support forum before attempting to update your unit.

https://forum.vellemanprojects.eu/c/instruments/wfs210-new

Fraser

[tggzzz]

Here is the firmware update instruction manual that Velleman provided for their new iOS updated firmware.

Thanks; looks like it is no-go for all the reasons: dev environment, arcane hardware, and operating system (which MS wouldn't sell to me!).

[Avacee]

Looking on eBay for "PickIT 3" returns lots of results in the £13-20 range and another series in the £80-100.

I take it the cheapo ones are chinese knockoffs. Does anyone have any experience of these working ok?
I don't fancy spending ~£90 on a unit that cost £20 :p

[R_G_B_]

Have you looked at this

http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2011/12/19/sure-electronics-pickit-3-clone-review/

[Gyro]

Check the listings for Pickit 3.5 ([not all of] the red ones). They claim additional things like firmware protection and unique serial number.

I bought one a while back and haven't had any trouble with it.

[djos]

Check the listings for Pickit 3.5 ([not all of] the red ones). They claim additional things like firmware protection and unique serial number.

I bought one a while back and haven't had any trouble with it.

Or if you have an EEPROM programmer with PIC capability you can use that, that's my intention as I have the add on for mine (does SLI & JTAG too).

[R_G_B_]

I got this one


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F141713310557

[Howardlong]

VEL337 has kindly added the missing boot loader to the GitHub. It got accidentally omitted when he did the first upload.

Fraser

It compiles cleanly now, but you must use XC16 1.24, more recent versions omit a file dependency in their distribution. So my toolchain is XC16 v1.24 and MPLAB X IDE 4.01.

As soon as I get chance, I'll check to see if it runs, but time is not on my side at the moment.

[Mr. Scram]

I've tried to use it in anger for the first time tonight, but I must say I'm not overly impressed. Getting the contact bounce of a button to show up turned out to be impossible for me. If you adjust the timebase to something useful, the triggering seems to stop cooperating.

If everything shows up as a decently shaped waveform due to the limitations of the device, it loses its use in a lot of cases.

[djos]

Mine arrived yesterday and all I've managed to do so far is charge it overnight. Hopefully I'll get some time on the weekend to have a play.

[jimmc]

A couple of interesting 'features' I think I've discovered, can someone please confirm. (I'm using the Android App with a 1600x1200 display)

The 20mV/div range is in actually 25mV/div. (The protocol document p6 seems to support this range '10' is given as 25mV/div)

The x axis graticule is slightly out - set the markers whole number of divisions apart and the time readout is higher than it should be.
e.g. 15 divisions on 10uS/div range gives a readout of 152uS. (Checking the markers against a GPSDO shows that they are correct.)



Finally, has anyone found a way of shifting the trigger point in the time axis?

Jim

Modified - Pics added

[Avacee]

It's a rounding error.

From the protocol document --> For all timebase settings: 50 samples/div except for 1µs/div: 10 samples/div and for 2µs/div: 20 samples/div
However the values in the top-right/bottom-right boxes are calculated from the markers' pixel difference - the data isn't sent from the unit.

The app calculates TimePerPixel and multiplies by the number of pixels between the markers.
All values in those boxes will be suffer the same rounding error as they all use time/pixel or volts/pixel.

[R_G_B_]

I was comparing the update rate of the wfs210
to the hps140 just to see how slow it updates the screen.

Using the analogue discovery signal generator as follows:

Advanced settings

Carrier
Type square 500Hz 50% 0deg

FM
Sine 200mhz  50% 0deg

Then I noticed on the Square wave the ringing and overshoot was on the falling edges on the wfs210 and those on the hps140i on the rising edges. So the WFS210 is not displaying the waveform the correct way around it's time reversed as the ringing should be in the rising edge of the Square wave.

Seems to do this intermittently at 1Mhz

[Bicurico]

Just received mine:

1) Package had been opened before, so this is a returned item and not brand new. Other than that, it looks new.
2) I think it arrived with the button pressed, so the battery is completely flat.
3) Connected it via USB with my PC, expecting to charge it and to be able to try it through USB, but it does not turn on or show in device manager.
4) While connected to my laptop to charge it, pressing the power button does exactly nothing.

I will leave it charging for a while, in hope to be able to confirm that it is working at all.

Overall, a very bad user experience. The included "manual" is a joke, no CD - I would not have paid more than 20-30 Euro for this. No wonder they are getting rid of stocks.

Hopefully, my opinion will change when/if the device finally starts and does something.

Regds,
Vitor

[Bicurico]

Update:

Just removed the rubber feet and noticed that the screws are not completely screwed in - this device has been tampered with.

How much worse can it get? 

Regards,
Vitor

[Mr. Scram]

Just received mine:

1) Package had been opened before, so this is a returned item and not brand new. Other than that, it looks new.
2) I think it arrived with the button pressed, so the battery is completely flat.
3) Connected it via USB with my PC, expecting to charge it and to be able to try it through USB, but it does not turn on or show in device manager.
4) While connected to my laptop to charge it, pressing the power button does exactly nothing.

I will leave it charging for a while, in hope to be able to confirm that it is working at all.

Overall, a very bad user experience. The included "manual" is a joke, no CD - I would not have paid more than 20-30 Euro for this. No wonder they are getting rid of stocks.

Hopefully, my opinion will change when/if the device finally starts and does something.

Regds,
Vitor

Do you get a blinking wifi light when you turn on the device?

[Bicurico]

I only get two lights: the exclamation mark and the battery charging.

Pressing the power button does nothing. I measured the battery and it has 3.5V, which is presumably much too low.

What puzzels me is that I expected the device to turn on when connected to a power source.

Either mine is DOA or this device will be useless the day the battery fails.

Regards,
Vitor

[Mr. Scram]

I only get two lights: the exclamation mark and the battery charging.

Pressing the power button does nothing. I measured the battery and it has 3.5V, which is presumably much too low.

What puzzels me is that I expected the device to turn on when connected to a power source.

Either mine is DOA or this device will be useless the day the battery fails.

Regards,
Vitor

You should get a slow blinking light on the left side of the power button if you turn the device on. That's the wifi trying to connect to a network.

I must add that I didn't get a response at first either. Changing the USB cable a few times until I had a reliable cable turned out to be the solution. It was the same problem you have. It didn't turn up in the Device Manager.

[Bicurico]

The device came with a USB cable, which is what I am using to charge it. I tried charging it on my laptop, now using a USB charger (1A).

It is charging for 5-10 minutes and I had expected that pressing the power button would do at least SOMETHING like turning on the WIFI LED's, but that is not happening.

I could accept that a connection to the PC is not happening due to the cable, but the WIFI mode should be working, right? Or will it be deactivate as soon as a USB cable is connected (to charger or PC).

I don't have any other USB-Mini cable with me right now.

This sure sucks!

Can you please tell me: Should the WIFI LED's turn on when power button is pressed AND device is being charged?

Hope I don't have to find out how good the Amazon customer support works...

Thanks,
Vitor

[Mr. Scram]

The device came with a USB cable, which is what I am using to charge it. I tried charging it on my laptop, now using a USB charger (1A).

It is charging for 5-10 minutes and I had expected that pressing the power button would do at least SOMETHING like turning on the WIFI LED's, but that is not happening.

I could accept that a connection to the PC is not happening due to the cable, but the WIFI mode should be working, right? Or will it be deactivate as soon as a USB cable is connected (to charger or PC).

I don't have any other USB-Mini cable with me right now.

This sure sucks!

Can you please tell me: Should the WIFI LED's turn on when power button is pressed AND device is being charged?

Hope I don't have to find out how good the Amazon customer support works...

Thanks,
Vitor

I think the WIFI LED turns on when the power button is pressed and it is being charged, but I don't have a device here to make sure. It could just be the WIFI light though, or the WIFI module. Maybe the device is still usable in other ways.

[Bicurico]

I will waste no time and request a refund.

I am prepared to deal with a sub-quality product as described in the forum, where the fun comes from messing around with the firmware.

But I am not in the mood of having to deal with a DOA device.

It seems, however, Amazon requires me to ship back the defective device: this is OK if Amazon pays for the expenses. Otherwise it is kind of pointless and that would mean I NEVER would buy anything else from them.

I will keep you updated.

Regards,
Vitor

[Mr. Scram]

I will waste no time and request a refund.

I am prepared to deal with a sub-quality product as described in the forum, where the fun comes from messing around with the firmware.

But I am not in the mood of having to deal with a DOA device.

It seems, however, Amazon requires me to ship back the defective device: this is OK if Amazon pays for the expenses. Otherwise it is kind of pointless and that would mean I NEVER would buy anything else from them.

I will keep you updated.

Regards,
Vitor

Please try to get it to work first. I thought I had a dud too, but with some love and attention, I have gotten the thing to work nicely. Maybe yours is different, but it certainly isn't a device that's ready to out of the box every time.

[Specmaster]

I just got mine to do a test and the answer is yes, the wifi light does come on if the power button is pressed while it is charging BUT that might not be the case if the battery is dead flat in the first place. It might be worthwhile leaving in on charge for a couple of hours and testing it again to be certain that it is DOA

[Bicurico]

I'm already on the Amazon support chat, requesting a replacement.

I am pretty sure this one is a DOA/DUD, because apart from the charging LED's nothing happens. I would wait/investigate if a WIFI LED would go on, but like this it could be anything from dead CPU to lacking firmware. It is just a paperweight right now.

Also, the fact that the box came unsealed, the inner plastic had the scotch tape broken and the screws under the feet where not fully screwed in, indicated that someone else struggled with this before...

[Avacee]

From a dead flat battery I plugged it in and turned it on and the wi-fi LED started flashing immediately and I was able to connect to it.

Just in case your wi-fi LED is kaput can you search for a wi-fi access point with the SSID "WFS210"?
This will appear within a few seconds of turning on the unit.

[Bicurico]

Thanks. No such SSID shows up - tried that, as well...

Bad luck.

What puzzels me is the amount of bad luck I have, when it comes to purchases of such devices. Around 5-10% is always with an issue.

Let's see how the return/replacment works out.

[Bicurico]

Device is already packed and ready to be shipped back.

Amazon handled it in an acceptable manner: They ship a new item, which arrives Nov. 2nd and I just have to bring the DUD to the local post office, without extra costs.

Hopefully, the next device will turn on!

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Vitor

[medical-nerd]

Hiya

The device came with a USB cable, which is what I am using to charge it. I tried charging it on my laptop, now using a USB charger (1A).

It is charging for 5-10 minutes and I had expected that pressing the power button would do at least SOMETHING like turning on the WIFI LED's, but that is not happening.

Thanks,
Vitor

Hiya

The user manual recommends that the battery be fully charged before use. I had the same experience as yourself, then left it charging for a few hours (about 5) on a usb charger before trying it, then had no problems in turning it on. Using it for anything is another matter...........

Cheers

[Fraser]

Vitor,

There are comments on the Velleman forum that some users who attempted to upgrade the firmware to the latest version ended up with a brick. As the firmware update requires the opening of the units case, I suspect your unit had previously been sold, bricked during a firmware upgrade, and returned to Amazon under some pretext that did not indicate that it was faulty. Either that or the unit accidentally got back into good stock after being returned as faulty.
Amazon are normally pretty good where DOA items are concerned and they pay the return postage or supply a prepaid label etc.

Fraser

[Bicurico]

What got me annoyed was the fact that the device was at least "refurbished" and not new.

If it was new, I would give it the benefit of doubt and keep it for a while and spend time setting it up.

Because that was not the case, it goes straight back. I am tempted to open the air bubble envelope and leave it charging during the day, but that would cost me one air bubble envelope and if the device starts to work, I would still have to send it back now. Better to wait until next week.

I agree with Fraser on this: I have seen many bricks due to faild firmware upgrade attempts and this is exacly how it looks to me. The charging circuit does not involve the CPU/flash, which is why the LED's go on. Otherwise the device is just dead.

The fact that the screws where not fully screwed in and some residue glue on the side of the rubber feet makes me believe it was opened by the last "customer". Also, right now I am still waiting for the PICkit3 to arrive, so I have no easy means of reflashing it, if I wanted to.

I start to wonder if I shouldn't have just asked for a refund...
...but because I am waiting for the PICkit3, it would be a shame to not have a device to test the flashing proceedure. These orders come hand in hand.

Not the end of the world - just have to wait another week and deal with the shipping back proceedure (i.e. verify it arrives and I am not charged for the replacement unit).

Regards,
Vitor

[R_G_B_]

There are so many things wrong with the software and firmware of this thing it's unbelievable and these are still selling at around £100 pounds.

It's only because of Fraser mentioning the problems to velleman did they drop the goods and run like a bunch of crooks!

[Specmaster]

There are so many things wrong with the software and firmware of this thing it's unbelievable and these are still selling at around £100 pounds.

It's only because of Fraser mentioning the problems to velleman did they drop the goods and run like a bunch of crooks!

Im not aware that they have run like a bunch of crooks at all, its my impression that they are co-operating with us in updating the software and discussions about the firmware are happening as well.
What I am aware of is the fact that it took Fraser mentioning the issues to them and with the weight of this forum and its influential membership that got them to acknowledge that there are issues and they are willing to look at this head on to see what can be done about it. So unless you know something that has not been posted in this thread, they are talking to Fraser and another couple of members about resolving the problems.

[R_G_B_]

I was Metaphorical speaking 

It's now been bought to there attention in a reputable forum
That there are problems with the firmware and software and they have now released both of them.

Yes they are as far as I'm aware attending to this problem. But it should not take a forum like EEVBlog to bring their failings to their attention why did they not address these issues and why should it take such effort to bring this to there attention.

Politics of right and wrong no matter what samanitic you use to describe it's just a metorphore in this case but the meaning is what it is ...As if. People can be crooked in all walks of life it's just worded differently. And it seems the better the vocabulary to describe such actions or situation the better you fair at avoiding any come backs
Weasel words can be used to avoid any come back but it is what it is
I may sound harsh but I was telling it how it seems as if ...

[Ian.M]

Its strange that the firmware includes a MPLAB X loadable component: "bootloader.hex", yet they still recommend opening it to flash it with a firmware update.   I wonder whether they haven't got a copy of the PC app for bootloading it correctly configured with their VID and PID (assuming its a USB boothoader), or whether they've got a misconfigured bootloader - e.g. its looking for a button on the wrong I/O pin?    

@Fraiser: Please lean on Velleman for the bootloader source.

The other issue is input capacitance.  I cant find a spec for it anywhere.  The built in test signal has a rise time <1us.  With 1Meg in series right at the input jack, the risetime increased to 41us, from which I calculated the input capacitance as 37pF (41us/2.2*500K), and allowing for stray capacitance that probably means its about 35pF.   If anyone has a capmeter that's got 1pF resolution, it would be helpful if they can make their own input capacitance measurement and post it here.

Anyway the Maplin 60MHz x1/x10 scope probe AQ58N is *INCOMPATIBLE* with the WFS210.  Its x10 compensation range of 10pF to 30pF (nominal) is insufficient for the WFS210, resulting in severe undershoot on x10.  It looks like it needs a probe with a compensation range that goes up to 40pF.   Maplin don't have any other x10 probes so its not surprising they have put the WFS210 on clearance, as I bet everyone who's bought probes with it has returned them!   

[Howardlong]

It could be that the bootloader didn’t work properly or was flakey. It’s such a key component to get right, and you must get it right first time, or else you risk a product recall.

[Mr. Scram]

It could be that the bootloader didn’t work properly or was flakey. It’s such a key component to get right, and you must get it right first time, or else you risk a product recall.

Yes, it has the feel of something that was toyed with, but deemed unfit for release. As you say, a bootloader needs to be bulletproof, or you'd better leave it.

[Ian.M]

So why leave a borked bootloader in the project? Its not like the dsPIC33EP256MU806 requires a bootloader to be present to startup.  There's a CONFIG bit (RSTPRI) that determines whether it starts from the main or the auxiliary FLASH reset vector.   Leaving it in 'smells' like they didn't discover it was NFG till after the product launch.

[Mr. Scram]

I was Metaphorical speaking 

It's now been bought to there attention in a reputable forum
That there are problems with the firmware and software and they have now released both of them.

Yes they are as far as I'm aware attending to this problem. But it should not take a forum like EEVBlog to bring their failings to their attention why did they not address these issues and why should it take such effort to bring this to there attention.

Politics of right and wrong no matter what samanitic you use to describe it's just a metorphore in this case but the meaning is what it is ...As if. People can be crooked in all walks of life it's just worded differently. And it seems the better the vocabulary to describe such actions or situation the better you fair at avoiding any come backs
Weasel words can be used to avoid any come back but it is what it is
I may sound harsh but I was telling it how it seems as if ...

I don't quite understand why you're so consistently harsh. It's obvious that this product has its flaws. However, it would be easy for Velleman to pretend nothing it wrong and to keep quiet. Instead, they opted to help out and to try to improve the issues found. As always, it's not just about the mistakes you make, it's how you deal with them.

Calling them crooks and being consistently harsh only means they don't have anything to gain from trying to help. In that case, it would be better for them to drop the thing and hope it fizzles out quickly. Maybe with a bit of cooperation, a next generation device can be developed that does do what it promises, as this model isn't really that far off.

[Howardlong]

The other issue is input capacitance.  I cant find a spec for it anywhere.  The built in test signal has a rise time <1us.  With 1Meg in series right at the input jack, the risetime increased to 41us, from which I calculated the input capacitance as 37pF (41us/2.2*500K), and allowing for stray capacitance that probably means its about 35pF.   If anyone has a capmeter that's got 1pF resolution, it would be helpful if they can make their own input capacitance measurement and post it here.

Anyway the Maplin 60MHz x1/x10 scope probe AQ58N is *INCOMPATIBLE* with the WFS210.  Its x10 compensation range of 10pF to 30pF (nominal) is insufficient for the WFS210, resulting in severe undershoot on x10.  It looks like it needs a probe with a compensation range that goes up to 40pF.   Maplin don't have any other x10 probes so its not surprising they have put the WFS210 on clearance, as I bet everyone who's bought probes with it has returned them! 

It has two values measured with a Keysight U1733C, up to 50mV/div it's 44/45pF ch1/ch2, then at 100mV/div and above it's 36/38pF. I can compensate at 100mV/div and above with those probes but not at 50mV and below. (I think they're the same Maplin ones, the insert says HP-2060, claimed specs look identical, it's in a drawer full of probes of various provenance collected over some time).

On those two ranges, the capacitance remains constant.

However, even when you have compensated the probe, as you change the vertical (within the 100mV/div and above range), the compensation goes off. I measured the complex input impedance and there's negligible change between the vertical divisions in each of the two vertical bands.

[Ian.M]

Many thanks.

I checked the AQ58N (aka 'HP-2060') probes on my Dynamco D7100 which has 35pF input capacitance and they couldn't be compensated for that either so current stock certainly cant go much above 30pF, if that.   I suspect the supplier has changed the specs, and no one updated the part number.

Your news about the two input capacitance values is *NOT* *GOOD*. It sounds like the input divider design is badly *FUBARED* 

If you (or anyone else) could post two screenshots showing the compensation change with vertical position, that would be helpful.  Confirmation of the above results from anyone else with good enough test equipment would also be useful - lets build up some statistics here.

[exe]

So the WFS210 is not displaying the waveform the correct way around it's time reversed as the ringing should be in the rising edge of the Square wave.

There are many reasons why this may happen. Like, probes not compensated, probe loading, not enough bandwidth to display ringing, etc. People above mentioned bundled probes cannot compensate for input capacitance. This can be the problem. But I doubt it displays waveform "reverse". Although, never seen this scope...

[R_G_B_]

Yes it did display the waveform in reverse I will upload the comparison between both waveforms on the hps140i and wfs210 I'm absolutely certain of that  when I get a chance I will up load the screen shots I took.

[exe]

Yes it did display the waveform in reverse I will upload the comparison between both waveforms on the hps140i and wfs210 I'm absolutely certain of that  when I get a chance I will up load the screen shots I took.

Sorry for my comment if this is the case. But then it looks like very serious (and stupid) bug. Anyone else can confirm this? I'm asking because, who knows, may be it's coincidence that two waveforms look like mirrors of each other while they are not... I'd hook to a signal generator with assymetric waveform.

[Howardlong]

FWIW, although the code compiles, I've yet to get the provided build to work. It builds cleanly (use XC16 v1.24). The generated unified .hex is much smaller than that provided on their website (~197KB vs 954KB), although the .hex provided on the website is largely zeros.

There is some confusion as I believe that some of the LED indications come from the RN171 Wifi module, and not the MCU.

I can restore the .hex files provided and get them to work, but I should mention that I've found I've needed to do a factory reset and a calibration each time I load new firmware.

I don't really have the time to invest in this rabbit hole at the moment I'm afraid :-(

[R_G_B_]

Here's what I found a problem I discovered on the wfs210 as you see the waveform is being displayed the wrong way around.

[Specmaster]

Here's what I found a problem I discovered on the wfs210 as you see the waveform is being displayed the wrong way around.

Is it? Looks to me as if the trigger point has been set at the very tip of the wave and hence why the top of wave is shown before the trailing edge falls away. Move the trigger point lower and you should see the rising edge appearing which is what you have selected. 

[bitseeker]

It does look to me like it's being drawn from right to left instead of from left to right.

[Fraser]

To solve this 'reverse' waveform question, just look at the composite video coming out of a TV AV output or some other video source. That is a well known complex waveform. If it is plotted in reverse, it will be very obvious

I will see if I can find time tomorrow to play but I have a lot on at the moment.

Fraser

[Ian.M]

The only distinguishing features between one line of a PAL or NTSC signal ans a time-reversed copy of it are the widths of the black level front and back porches, and the presence of a colourburst on the front porch.  If the scanline has black at the far edge of the visible picture, the porch widths may not be distinctive, and a 10 megasample/s scope isn't going to be particularly good at resolving the 4.43MHz or 3.58MHz colourburst.

I therefore propose that a video signal is not sufficiently distinctive for this test, unless you have spent your career looking at them every day. 

Waveforms that would be distinctive would include RS232 with a non-reversible bit pattern in the low 5 bits (when considered as following the '1' start bit) with the last three bits and the parity bit also '1',  the output of a RC filter fed by a square wave, the capacitor voltage of a relaxation oscillator with a slow charge and fast discharge,  a staircase waveform generated by a counter and a DAC etc.

[Avacee]

If you set the timebase high enough you can see the waveform being drawn from left to right.

Which gives rise a.n.other "feature":
Set a slow signal and 1s/div - Once it finishes drawing start a stopwatch and change the frequency so you'll see the screen update with the new frequency.
On mine it took 60s before it drew the screen again.
Repeated at 500ms/div and it took 30s to screen refresh.

Back of an envelope: my tablet screen is 700x1280 so the grid is about 1000 pixels wide
I think it always sends 4096 horizontal pixels worth of data after a trigger but the tablet screen only shows 20 divs (seconds)
20s to fill 1000 samples or pixels = 60s for the other 3096 pixels. Not quite QED but near enough.

Edit: As for the waveform being inverted if you connect it to a battery and set DC mode the Vdc in the top-right reports the wrong polarity. eg -9V for a 9V battery. 

[exe]

Here's what I found a problem I discovered on the wfs210 as you see the waveform is being displayed the wrong way around.

It looks very suspicious, indeed. Can you please try with another source? Like a signal gen with some very non-simmetrical waveform?

I'd also try to reset application settings. May be there is an option to mirror signals. Or some sort of math processing...

[R_G_B_]

 it was a T BNC connector with the hps140 and wfs210 connected using 50 ohm coax cable 1 meter in length

And with the hps140 disconnected it made no difference to how the waveform on the wfs210 was being displayed.

The waveform was definitely time reversed I'm certain of that.

[sorenkir]

I have tried on of these ADUM3160 based USB isolated links with no luck: the WFS210 is not even recognized by Windows (the charge  and "warning" LEDs are ON).
Did someone else try one of these ?
Michel.

[Ian.M]

Try again and check the 5V USB Vbus on the device side.  If its dropping too much or has too much ripple, the ADUM3160 will malfunction.  See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/chinese-usb-isolator-test/ for why the cheap USB isolator boards are inadequate for devices that pull the full 500mA 5 unit load current.   To fix that issue you need to remove the DC-DC converter and inject 5V DC with 500mA over-current protection (e.g. a polyfuse) from a floating supply with an adequate isolation voltage rating.   Depending on the isolated device, you may also need to add an optocoupler driveen with a fraction of a mA from the host side Vbus to switch a PMOSFET to power down the device side when the host port is powered down.

On other issues: Have anyone else observed the x10 probe compensation problems I first reported in reply #237, and Howardlong found more of in reply #242?  I'm trying to decide if its worth ordering some decent probes for the WFS210, or whether I'd be throwing good money after bad if I bought anything better than Maplin's x1 99p 'specials' (YR95D) for it. 

[sorenkir]

Thank you I will check that!

Re. probe compensation, I have checked on my WFS210:
- The compensation setting is not the same for input attenuation below 50mV/div and above. Very annoying!
- I have found old probes in my box of probes with wide compensation range (10-60pF) that can compensate for both attenuation ranges (Hameg HZ36, Metrix HA1161, etc.), some that can only compensate above 100mV/div (Tektronix P2200, compensation range 15-25pF) and some that cannot compensate at all (Agilent 10074C, compensation range 9-17pF)

Michel.

[Fraser]

OK, I found time to fire up the WFS210...... it did not want to work at all this time. The APP seemed to be in trouble ! Wireless link was up and running.

I installed a Beta test software and got the WFS210 up and running again. The old issue of the continuous 'DEMO' mode at application start has gone and the scope works well.

I used my CCTV test meter to generate a colour bar graph signal and fed it to my WFS210. I attach a picture of the results as displayed on my tablet.

The WFS210 may only have a 10Ms/s sample rate and a realistic capability of only 1MHz, but as can be seen, it CAN display the basics of a PAL composite video signal ! The front porch, colour burst and back porch are easily identified. The trigger point was set on the sync pulse. Acquisitin stability was pretty good with occasional loss of trigger lock.

On my WFS210, the scope is NOT reversing the acquired waveform.

Note that I did NOT add a 75 Ohm termination so the amplitudes are Hi-Z unloaded readings.

Fraser 

[Fraser]

The same type of test signal viewed on a Chinese Multi-Instrument to be found here:

http://www.multi-tech.cn/VT-DSO-2810F.shtml

Fraser

[Fraser]

Same video test signal type displayed on a Tektronix MDO3000

[Fraser]

I may be doing something wrong but the voltage measurement function appears busted. I expected the marker A and B relative position to change the measured voltage reading in the top right hand corner. On my unit it does not. The measurement is in the mV even though the markers are spaced 1.5V apart !  No time to mess around now so it will have to wait.

Fraser

[medical-nerd]

I have tried on of these ADUM3160 based USB isolated links with no luck: the WFS210 is not even recognized by Windows (the charge  and "warning" LEDs are ON).
Did someone else try one of these ?
Michel.

These go to 12Mbps which is USB high speed. The connection must need more bandwidth (up to the 480Mbs limit), which is possibly why it isn't working.

Cheers

[Ian.M]

You seem to have some confusion over USB speeds:
Low Speed is 1.5Mbps
Full Speed is 12Mbps
High Speed is 480Mbps (added by the USB 2.0 standard)

These go to 12Mbps which is USB high speed. The connection must need more bandwidth (up to the 480Mbs limit), which is possibly why it isn't working.

It cant be that. The USB OTG SIE of the dsPIC33EP256MU806 MCU at the heart of the WFS210 only supports  Full Speed mode (when configured as a device), so cant exceed the capabilities of the ADUM3160.  Its not using an external High Speed controller as the firmware is definitely using Microchip USB stack on the dsPIC33EP256MU806's internal SIE.

[medical-nerd]

My apologies, full speed was in my mind but I typed the wrong thing - I've already had to correct this post because of the same mistake whilst typing. Thanks for the info re MCU device speed.

Cheers

[Bicurico]

I have received the replacement WFS210 yesterday and tested it just now.

The WiFi LED's go on right away - the previous device was broken without doubt.

The device does work, at least over WIFI connected with my PC. I did not get it work with my Samsung Galaxy Note 4, but then I have not fully tried it and mobile phones are not supported officially - just tablets.

My first opinion is this: the software is really basic! Two channels, but no XY rendering? pfff...

Also, the WFS210 seems to be hardcoded to 192.168.1.1, which is the IP of my router and I guess that is the router's IP of 99% of all users. If the WFS210 acts as an access point, why on earth did they not use some uncommon sub-network, not to mention a configurable.

I will keep this device, as I already returned one unit (not my fault, though) and the shipping costs exceed the value of the item. Perhaps some better firmware get's developed, by I seriously doubt it.

Final word: this device was not sealed either, so they are selling off returned devices and not brand new ones.

At least this one had the battery partially charged...

Regards,
Vitor

Regards,
Vitor

[Bicurico]

Hi,

Has anyone tried to talk to the WFS210 with a self made program?

I tried a simple RS232 communication (through USB connection), but I did not get any response. The Velleman software works of course in USB mode.

What is the baud rate?
How to calculate the checksum? "Checksum: CHKSUM = 8-bit two’s complement of sum of all previous bytes" doesn't make any sense to me...

Also, I don't understand the protocol description...

Example:

"Send ‘wifi settings request’ from display device (Tablet or USB host) to WiFi Scope
<STX>
<Wifi -setti ngs-request-cmd> <Data_length_low_byte> <Data-length-high-byte>
<0> <0>
<CHKSUM>
<ETX>

Start of transmission: STX = 0x02
Data length: 8
WiFi settings request command: 0x0A
Checksum: CHKSUM = 8-bit two’s complement of sum of all previous bytes
End of transmission: ETX = 0x0A"

Why is the example in a different order than the description and/or why is the description shorter than the bytes listed?

Help!

Regards,
Vitor

[Bicurico]

So, did I understand it correctly, that the "iOS" fix consisted in changing the IP from 169.254.1.1 to 192.168.1.1? 

Now I have to wait for my programmer to arrive, to flash back the previous firmware. 

Also, I have tried to figure out the RS232 settings:

Code: [Select]

#define BAUDRATE 9600
#define BRGVAL (((GetPeripheralClock() / BAUDRATE) / 16) - 1) // 259 for 9600 baud
#define UARTMODE (UART_EN & UART_IDLE_CON & UART_IrDA_DISABLE & UART_MODE_SIMPLEX & \
UART_UEN_00 & UART_DIS_WAKE & UART_DIS_LOOPBACK & UART_DIS_ABAUD & \
UART_UXRX_IDLE_ONE & UART_BRGH_SIXTEEN & UART_NO_PAR_8BIT & UART_1STOPBIT)
#define UARTSTA (UART_INT_TX_BUF_EMPTY & UART_IrDA_POL_INV_ZERO & UART_SYNC_BREAK_DISABLED & \
UART_TX_ENABLE & UART_INT_RX_CHAR & UART_ADR_DETECT_DIS & UART_RX_OVERRUN_CLEAR)


#define HS_BAUDRATE 460800 /*1100000*/
//#define HS_BRGVAL (((GetPeripheralClock() / HS_BAUDRATE) / 4) - 1) // 8 for 1100000 baud (10 for 921600 baud)
//#define HS_BRGVAL 8  // 8 for 1100000 baud
#define HS_BRGVAL 21 // 21 for 460800 baud
//#define HS_BRGVAL 86 // 86 for 115200 baud

#define HS_UARTMODE (UART_EN & UART_IDLE_CON & UART_IrDA_DISABLE & UART_MODE_FLOW & \
UART_UEN_10 & UART_DIS_WAKE & UART_DIS_LOOPBACK & UART_DIS_ABAUD & \
UART_UXRX_IDLE_ONE & UART_BRGH_FOUR & UART_NO_PAR_8BIT & UART_2STOPBITS)
#define HS_UARTSTA (UART_INT_TX_BUF_EMPTY & UART_IrDA_POL_INV_ZERO & UART_SYNC_BREAK_DISABLED & \
UART_TX_ENABLE & UART_INT_RX_CHAR & UART_ADR_DETECT_DIS & UART_RX_OVERRUN_CLEAR)

#define DEFAULT_WIFI_SSID "WFS210"
#define DEFAULT_WIFI_PASSWORD "WFS210scope"
#define DEFAULT_WIFI_CHANNEL 5

// wifi configuration command strings
#define ENTER_WIFI_CMD_MODE "$$$"
#define SET_WIFI_FACTORY_DEFAULTS "factory RESET\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_TX_POWER "set wlan tx 12\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_ACCESS_POINT "set wlan join 7\r\n"


#define SET_WIFI_SSID "set wlan ssid "
#define SET_WIFI_SECURITY_OPEN "set wlan auth 0\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_SECURITY_WPA2 "set wlan auth 2\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_PASSWORD "set wlan phrase "
#define SET_WIFI_AP_PASSWORD "set ap pass "
#define SET_WIFI_DHCP "set ip dhcp 4\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_IP_ADDRESS "set ip address 169.254.1.1\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_NETMASK "set ip netmask 255.255.255.0\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_GATEWAY "set ip gateway 169.254.1.1\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_LOCAL_PORT "set ip localport 2000\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_HOST_PORT "set ip remote 2000\r\n"
//#define SET_WIFI_UDP_PROTOCOL "set ip protocol 1\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_TCP_PROTOCOL "set ip protocol 2\r\n"
//#define SET_WIFI_TCP_PROTOCOL "set ip protocol 3\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_IP_HOST "set ip host 255.255.255.255\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_BROADCAST_INTERVAL "set broadcast interval 0\r\n"
//#define SET_WIFI_BROADCAST_INTERVAL "set broadcast interval 7\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_FLUSH_TIME "set comm time 2\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_FLUSH_SIZE "set comm size 1042\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_GPIO "set sys iofunc 0x40\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_INSTANT_BAUDRATE "set uart instant 9600\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_BAUDRATE_9600 "set uart baud 9600\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_BAUDRATE "set uart baud 460800\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_FLOW "set uart flow 1\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_NO_FLOW "set uart flow 0\r\n"
#define SET_WIFI_CHANNEL "set wlan channel "
#define GET_WIFI_SETTINGS "get wlan\r\n"
#define SCAN_WIFI "scan\r\n"
#define EXIT_WIFI_CMD_MODE "exit\r\n"
#define STORE_WIFI_SETTINGS "save\r\n"
#define REBOOT_WIFI "reboot\r\n"
#define ENTER_WIFI_SLEEP "sleep\r\n"

See here: https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-Firmware/blob/master/Header%20files/WFS210/wifi.h

But I had no luck connecting to the WFS210 through USB/RS232...

It is quite possible to write an alternative software, especially using TCP/IP. However, for me this means:

- having enough time
- understanding the protocol (which I don't, due to total lack of examples)
- getting the device to work with my PC without having to deactivate my main network connection

Regards,
Vitor

[Avacee]

Hi,
Has anyone tried to talk to the WFS210 with a self made program?

I tried a simple RS232 communication (through USB connection), but I did not get any response. The Velleman software works of course in USB mode.

What is the baud rate?
How to calculate the checksum? "Checksum: CHKSUM = 8-bit two’s complement of sum of all previous bytes" doesn't make any sense to me...

Also, I don't understand the protocol description...

Example:

"Send ‘wifi settings request’ from display device (Tablet or USB host) to WiFi Scope
<STX>
<Wifi -setti ngs-request-cmd> <Data_length_low_byte> <Data-length-high-byte>
<0> <0>
<CHKSUM>
<ETX>

Start of transmission: STX = 0x02
Data length: 8
WiFi settings request command: 0x0A
Checksum: CHKSUM = 8-bit two’s complement of sum of all previous bytes
End of transmission: ETX = 0x0A"

Why is the example in a different order than the description and/or why is the description shorter than the bytes listed?

Help!

Regards,
Vitor

Yes - but via TCP/IP - haven't tried serial .. yet

Here's very simple C# code to send a packet asking for the wifi settings.

Code: [Select]

            var writer = theApp.TcpConnection.GetStream;

            byte[] bytes = new byte[8];
            bytes[0] = msg.STX;  // This is 0x02 for all messages;
            bytes[1] = msg.Command;  // In your case for wifi settings this will be 0x0a; 
            Array.Copy(BitConverter.GetBytes(msg.Size),0,bytes, 2, 2); //msg.Size will be 8 for a wifi-settings request stored in 2 bytes in position 2+3;
            bytes[4] = 0x00; // These bytes are msg.data but for wifi settings will two bytes of 0x00 so hard-coded this for easier reading
            bytes[5] = 0x00;
            bytes[6] = TwosComplementChecksum.CalculateChecksum(bytes,0,8-2);   // msg.size will be 6 as it's all the bytes so far (2 still to go for this checksum and the ETX)
            bytes[7] = msg.ETX;   // This is 0x0a for all messages
            writer.Write(bytes, 0, 8);
            writer.Flush();

TwosComplementChecksum (wiki on Two's Complement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two%27s_complement)

Code: [Select]

public static byte CalculateChecksum(byte[] bytes, int offset, int count)
        {
            int retval = 0;
            for (int i = offset; i < count; i++)
            {
                retval += bytes[i];
            }
            return (byte)(~retval + 1);
        }
Msg.size

Code: [Select]

public UInt16 Size
        {
            get
            {
                UInt16 retval = (UInt16)(6 + (Data == null ? 0 : Data.Length));
                return retval;
            }

I've pretty much given up on the Vellemann software and am knocking up my own.

[Fraser]

Hi Avacee,

I have not had much spare time of recent to play with the WFS210 but can report that the Beta software seems to reliably link to the unit. Sadly the actual software is pretty flakey to say the least. If you are working on a better software, it could well mean the difference between a 'WFS' becoming 'OK' rather than a 'FFS' and a door stop !

Fraser

[Avacee]

Successfully connected via USB/Serial.

If dts/rts enable are not true then nada happens
If you send a Settings Packet the unit will start spamming trigger matches back at you 

Code snippet ....

Code: [Select]

            port = new SerialPort("COM4", 19200, Parity.None, 8, StopBits.One);    //Hard-coding COM4 FTW!
            port.DataReceived += Port_DataReceived;
            port.RtsEnable = true;   
            port.DtrEnable = true;
            port.Open();

            // Default Settings. AC, 10V/div, trigger central, 2ms/div
            byte[] bytes = new byte[18]
            {
                0x02,   // STX - Start Packet
                0x11,   // Command byte - 0x11 = Set Settings
                0x12,   // Packet Size High byte ... 18
                0x00,   // Packet Size Low byte
                0x00,   // always 0
                0x00,   // always 0
                0x00,   // CH1 Input Coupling ... 0x00 = AC
                0x02,   // CH1 V/div ... 0x02 = 10V/div
                0x80,   // CH1 Y position ... 128 = center of screen
                0x00,   // CH2 Input Coupling ... 0x00 = AC
                0x02,   // CH2 V/div ... 0x02 = 10V/div
                0x80,   // CH2 Y position ... 128 = center of screen
                0x0a,   // Timebase = 2ms/div
                0x80,   // Trigger level = 128
                0x01,   // Trigger setting - see protocol for bitwise breakdown
                0x00,   // Reserved
                0x4c,   // Checksum
                0x0a    // ETX - End Packet
            };

            port.Write(bytes, 0, 18);


Code: [Select]

        private void Port_DataReceived(object sender, SerialDataReceivedEventArgs e)
        {
            int iByteCount = port.BytesToRead;
            if (iByteCount  > 0)
            {
                byte[] bytes = new byte[iByteCount ];
                port.Read(bytes, 0, iByteCount);
                DoStuffWithNewData();
            }
        }

Edit: have tried various baud rates, eg 57600, 115200, 460800 and they all worked.

[djos]

Geez I really need to fire mine up and see if it works, I've been smashed with work in the last few weeks (still recovering from a 5 day network outage and managing the resulting P1 problem) so mines still sitting in the workshop with some new unopened probes. All I've managed to do is charge it so far. 

You know it'd be great if one of you software guru's managed to port the droid app to Raspian Linux and even allow the WFS210 to connect to an existing WLAN instead of making its own hotspot. 

[Bicurico]

@Avacee: Thanks man!

I just tried it with Visual Basic .net, which is what I am familiar with.

I did a dirty hack converting your code, just to see if it works:

Code: [Select]

Imports System.IO.Ports

Public Class Form1
    Dim port As New SerialPort("COM8", 19200, Parity.None, 8, StopBits.One)
    Dim screen As System.Drawing.Graphics
    Dim trace_on As Boolean = False
    Private Sub Button1_Click(sender As Object, e As EventArgs) Handles Button1.Click
        If trace_on = False Then
            trace_on = True
            port.RtsEnable = True
            port.DtrEnable = True
            port.Open()
            get_trace()
        Else
            port.Close()
            trace_on = False
        End If

    End Sub
    Sub get_trace()
        While trace_on = True
            screen = PictureBox1.CreateGraphics
            screen.Clear(Color.Black)
            Dim bytes As Byte() = New Byte(17) {&H2, &H11, &H12, &H0, &H0, &H0,
                &H0, &H2, &H80, &H0, &H2, &H80,
                &HA, &H80, &H1, &H0, &H4C, &HA}
            port.Write(bytes, 0, 18)
            Dim x As Integer = 0
            Dim y(4096) As Integer
            While x < 2048
                Application.DoEvents()
                y(x) = port.ReadByte
                y(x) = port.ReadByte + y(x)

                If x > 1 Then screen.DrawLine(Pens.Green, x, y(x), x - 1, y(x - 1))
                x = x + 1
            End While
        End While
    End Sub

    '0x02,   // STX - Start Packet
    '0x11,   // Command byte - 0x11 = Set Settings
    '0x12,   // Packet Size High byte ... 18
    '0x00,   // Packet Size Low byte
    '0x00,   // always 0
    '0x00,   // always 0
    '0x00,   // CH1 Input Coupling ... 0x00 = AC
    '0x02,   // CH1 V/div ... 0x02 = 10V/div
    '0x80,   // CH1 Y position ... 128 = center of screen
    '0x00,   // CH2 Input Coupling ... 0x00 = AC
    '0x02,   // CH2 V/div ... 0x02 = 10V/div
    '0x80,   // CH2 Y position ... 128 = center of screen
    '0x0a,   // Timebase = 2ms/div
    '0x80,   // Trigger level = 128
    '0x01,   // Trigger setting - see protocol for bitwise breakdown
    '0x00,   // Reserved
    '0x4c,   // Checksum
    '0x0a    // ETX - End Packet
End Class

You need a PictureBox and a Button. The trace is rendered wrong (I should interpret the header, instead of drawing it, too), but you can see the signal.

This is a great start!

Regards,
Vitor

[Bicurico]

Hi,

I played a little further with VB .net and the serial connection.

I am now aware how the device works and actually I am not sure if it is that easy to implement oscilloscope functionality as I want: the device considers the computer just as a display.

This makes the rendering easy, as your software only has to set the V/t units of the trace, as well as, the POSITION on your graphics area! You then receive a stream of bytes, which you just draw in that vertical position. In other words: your software is totally ignorant of what the values represent - they are just coordinates on your screen.

If you want i.e. implement a XY trace function, you cannot do so, because you don't receive the V values in t.

Of course, you can reverse engineer the measured samples, as you know the horizontal t scale and vertical V scale, but you will for sure loose precision, as the pixel stream you receive is of the Byte type.

I am not 100% sure of all of this, though, but I think this is the big picture.

If one would want to REALLY make something great out of this product, it would require building a new firmware.

Also, I don't understand for now, how to interpret the data stream correctly. When I request the samples, I get 4096 bytes as a response (as stated by Avancee), but what do they represent?

Also, how can the baudrate be only 19200? This is hardly enough for a fast refresh rate. Looking at the firmware sources, much higher baudrates are implemented - interestingly I did not see mention of 19200 baud. I might be confusing USB baudrate with virtual RS232 baudrate, though.

Conclusions:

1) It is possible to build a custom VIEWER application.
2) It is QUESTIONABLE if usefull additional features can be implemented with current device firmware.

Regards,
Vitor

[Avacee]

You are correct that you don't get voltage values and that the unit sends screen positions to the PC/tablet as a viewer.

The software works on having 10 vertical divisions so for a setting of 500mV/div you get from -2.5V to +2.5V.
There's no offset so you are stuck with 0V being the midpoint.
The unit sends where the voltage reading will be within those bounds based on 3=Top of screen .. 128=Centre .. 252=Bottom of screen .. 250 different values or 25 per division.
So for 500mV/div a value of 3 = 2.5V .. 128 = 0V .. 252 = -2.5V .. and simple maths for the rest.

If you send the ChxY Position in a Settings message the unit will offset the values by this much.
This you could do yourself but by having the unit do it for you you can simply dump the byte stream into a viewer with no further processing.

So the datastream that comes back is the form:
byte 1: CH1_Sample1    (value between 3 and 252) .. if you view the stream with nothing attached you'll see a lot of 0x80 = 128 = 0V
byte 2: CH2_Sample1
byte 3: CH1_Sample2
byte 4: CH2_Sample2
byte 5: CH1_Sample3
byte 6: CH2_Sample3
....
byte 8192: CH2_Sample4096

Amen on it needing a new firmware 

Baudrate:
I've tried 460800 and it didn't throw an exception and returned data.
I haven't tried any throughput tests though to see what it actually connected at .. job for tomorrow!
I initially used 19200 as I found that as a default in the firmware code in usb_function_cdc.c -> CDCInitEP(void)

[Bicurico]

What I don't understand: why does the device reply with 4096 bytes?

If it is for two channels, that's 2048 bytes for each.
The screen is only about 660x400 pixel.
If each byte represents the hight of the curve, you would need two bytes for 400 pixel height (actually a few bit less).
That would still be 1024 byes for each channel or 1024 pixel. That just does not equate!

I would expect a resolution of i.e. 512 x 256 pixel and each trace would be composed of 512x2 = 1024 bytes for both channels.

At 660x400 pixel, 4096 data bytes just don't make sense.

Plus, can it be that they are sending the grid data, too? I know, I should look in the source code, but I have been busy and tired, so I am just experimenting things.

Regards,
Vitor

[Avacee]

The protocol has nothing to specify how wide the display is.

Is it on a 660x400 display, or a 1280x800 (my tablet) or a 1920x1080 monitor?
I can stretch the windows app over 3 monitors for 5760x1080 .. and it cuts off after it shows the sent samples :p
If the screen isn't wide enough to show all the samples then the excess are discarded.

Someone at Velleman decided the unit would send 4096 so it does.

Edit: Added screenshot to show cutoff

Edit2: Regarding "Is it sending the grid data"?
It is not. The Velleman app works by dividing the height of the grid control by 10 to get the pixels per division.
Altering the height of the app doesn't gain you more vertical divisions - it's always 10 divisions as mentioned in my last post about V/div and the unit's +/- range.
It then maintains a square grid by using the same number of pixels per division horizontally.

[Bicurico]

Hi,

Thank you a lot in helping me understand this.

In fact, I did not try changing the WFS210 software window size - of course I can stretch it.

Also, I was mentally blocked in thinking in terms of horizontal screen resolution - in case of an oscilloscope, it makes of course no sense: the more samples, the better and what you do with them is up to you. The problem was that I was using a composite video signal to test with and was trying to get exactly one scanline into my screen... 

I think I am now getting ready to actually start implementing something.

My next test will be to try some XY rendering. I will use a oscilloscope demo *.WAV file. Let's see what will happen. But for now I will hit the bed!

Regards,
Vitor

[IAmBack]

Got mine.

I managed how to make it work with my tablets. It appeared to be not straightforward to start it every time on my equipment. Now with little fiddling software starts every time. For those who may concern, I need to go to app manager, turn the app off (if it is running), next remove all data, and then start it again in normal way. Sometimes it needs to switch between normal and demo mode, bit finally starts every time.

I've noticed, that there is no difference in the plot with time base settings from 5us/div till 1us/div...
Anyone can confirm this? How it is on windows?(I'm quite reluctant to install sw and drivers on my laptop).

/edit/
Just pressed "autorange" button while 1MHz sinewave was connected to the input. This thing have switched to... 5ms/div, and displayed beautiful sine plot. What a excellent tool to demonstrate aliasing and Nyquist theorem!

[Avacee]

I've noticed, that there is no difference in the plot with time base settings from 5us/div till 1us/div...
Anyone can confirm this? How it is on windows?(I'm quite reluctant to install sw and drivers on my laptop).

That's confirmed as a bug by Velleman

https://forum.vellemanprojects.eu/t/wfs210-tested-and-this-product-has-issues-request-for-support-comment/27511/2

[sorenkir]

Following  Ian.M's advice, I have removed the DC-DC converter from the ADUM3160 based USB isolator and wired an USB cable connected to a phone charger:



This is working, the WFS210 is isolated from PC & bench ground and can be connected to test equipment and linked to the PC with the USB (without Wi-Fi):



Michel.

[CanadianAvenger]

I realize this is an old thread, but if anyone is interested the firmware is available on GIT (now).

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-Firmware


I picked one of these up off of a clearance shelf, and wanted to hack around with it. From this thread, it looks like there was at least some interest in the past from others doing the same. I think the hardware platform has potential to be useful for some applications, the current implementation sucks.

[djos]

I realize this is an old thread, but if anyone is interested the firmware is available on GIT (now).

https://github.com/Velleman/WFS210-Firmware


I picked one of these up off of a clearance shelf, and wanted to hack around with it. From this thread, it looks like there was at least some interest in the past from others doing the same. I think the hardware platform has potential to be useful for some applications, the current implementation sucks.

Mine died recently, so it's on the healing shelf for if I can ever be bothered digging into it.