Author Topic: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter  (Read 37745 times)

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Offline Stephen Hill

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2012, 10:01:33 am »
Dear Bored@Work,

When I was younger I was given some advice: "Think before you speak".

Cheers
Stephen
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2012, 12:29:30 pm »
It is easy to say that something is "garbage" if you have never used it. To be taken seriously one needs evidence.

Yes, I experienced that with my infamous Agilent U1252A review. Countless people said it was absolute crap based on a few shortcomings with it, and hammered me for it, without ever having used one themselves.
Then when there was that clearance sale of it and everyone bought one, and they actually got to use it, no one was complaining any more...  ::)

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2012, 12:44:49 pm »
Oh, and finally I find it funny when someone talks about himself in the third person:
Dave do that ALL TIME, but I never hear you bitching. Why now  ::)

Dave loves to do that, it pisses off some people and gets them steaming out the ears. Dave likes to have fun like that  ;D

Dave.
 

Offline Neganur

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2012, 03:42:13 pm »
...you talk shit in every thread...

I absolutely disagree. I don't always like the tone everybody uses, but it's certainly not poor content.

Shahriar is sponsored by Rigol (think to remember he indicates it on his website) and I assume B@W was pointing out a possible bias in Shahriar's opinion regarding Rigol. At least that's how I understood those comments, and I may be completely wrong.  I do appreciate all the different opinions here.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2012, 08:14:10 pm »
Quote
and they perform very well.

And you know that because? Quick, remind me what your qualifications are? Ah yes, you do a video blog, stupid me.

Here's his qualifications http://individual.utoronto.ca/xthgencomp/

He has a PhD **profanity removed by admin**. Now show us your qualifications. I highly recommend you **profanity removed by admin**. Not only you make no videos, you talk shit in every thread and attack people, internet tough guy. I hope a ban hammer is coming your way.

Do you seriously think I care about your opinion? I recommend you contact Private Fluffer if you need someone to talk. He is runnig my fan club.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

alm

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2012, 08:52:59 pm »
[...]
Excellent post as usual. More technical info than in the video 'review'.

Someone complained about long boot times... be happy it's not a Fluke /Tek benc meter ... those things run loonix. Whoever came up with the idea that an operating system was needed to make a digital multimeter should be stapled to the wall... I hope this rigol doesn't fall in the same category... if i find out it runs loonix it is immediately disqualified.
Agreed, a DMM should be available almost instantly after power on. Even though it may not be within its specified accuracy without warm up, it should be able to do a quick measurement. The person who came up with the idea of running Linux on a DMM is probably the same that thought that scopes should run a full desktop Windows OS, so they can run Excel and minesweep. Don't forget to run a virus scanner on your scope!
 

Offline T4P

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2012, 09:27:07 pm »
You say that, but agilent was the one who did so ...
 

Offline MBY

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2012, 10:00:23 pm »
Watch this https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/rigol-dm3061-6-12-digit-multimeter/msg62859/#msg62859 Then you know why it is easy to call a Rigol multimeter a pile of shit without using it.
What on earth are you talking about? I also took my Rigol (DM3061) apart at your very request in that very thread and found no problem whatsoever. Moreover, I have used my DMM for quite some time now, on nearly daily basis and in conjunction with other new and old precision instruments and the Rigol really performs very well, is stable and has excellent performance. I also keep track of my instruments, my DUTs and error sources. I have access to precision current sources, precision voltage sources, precision resistor sources, frequency standards and others and I continually evaluate all my instruments performance. I even log amb temp and humidity.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that instrument.

Yeah, it very easy to call something a pile of shit when talking in total ignorance...

We can also question why somebody first asks for credentials, then showing total uninterest to the answer like we other forgot that you asked...
 

Offline Wartex

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2012, 03:43:43 am »
Quote
and they perform very well.

And you know that because? Quick, remind me what your qualifications are? Ah yes, you do a video blog, stupid me.

Here's his qualifications http://individual.utoronto.ca/xthgencomp/

He has a PhD **profanity removed by admin**. Now show us your qualifications. I highly recommend you **profanity removed by admin**. Not only you make no videos, you talk shit in every thread and attack people, internet tough guy. I hope a ban hammer is coming your way.

Do you seriously think I care about your opinion? I recommend you contact Private Fluffer if you need someone to talk. He is runnig my fan club.

I don't think you know what "opinion" means. You asked what his qualifications were and me and another poster showed you hard proof. Instead of apologizing to Shahriar or at least being quiet, you keep on mouthing off. My only opinion is that you are a forum clown. The more passive aggressive responses you post, the faster you are going to get banned, so godspeed my friend. 
 

Offline grenert

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2012, 04:47:04 am »
The person who came up with the idea of running Linux on a DMM is probably the same that thought that scopes should run a full desktop Windows OS, so they can run Excel and minesweep. Don't forget to run a virus scanner on your scope!

Which DMM runs Linux?
(sorry for the O.T.)
 

Offline rbola35618

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2012, 04:58:39 am »
I thought the review was great. I like the fact that he demonstrates most of the features that most people would not be familiar. I think that Dr. Shahramian is highly qualified and knows what he is talking about. In his review he mentioned that he has been using his Rigol for quite a while and would not do a video if he did not have confidence in it.

As far as Rigol's product, I own the DS105 scope, DG1022 function generator, and the DS815Tg spectrum analyzer. I have been very happy with my equipment and with the Rigel's technical support. I have talked to these guys when ever I have an application question and have come thru everytime. If you have a technical problem, call either Jason Chonko or Joel Roop. They both came to Rigol from I believe Keithley Instrument. So these guys are very experienced and are good at solving problems. 

I believe that Rigol is coming with very good high quality products that are very competitive with HP, Tek, and others manufactures. Before I buy anything, I always give Rigol consideration because of their qualify of their products and are substantially less expensive and come with a three year warranty.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2012, 08:59:18 am »
Compared HP or that evil organization Danaher  ::)
Rigol ain't half bad actually and their products are mostly pretty good
For a definition of bad look at UNI-T's OTHER meters except from UT33, UT10, UT61
The bench division is no better, no kidding they are worse
 

Offline Spikee

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2012, 12:26:00 pm »
so if i'm correct it can measure current and voltage at the same time ? ( i read the manual but i am not 100% sure) .

Gr spikee
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Offline free_electron

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2012, 02:59:33 pm »
The person who came up with the idea of running Linux on a DMM is probably the same that thought that scopes should run a full desktop Windows OS, so they can run Excel and minesweep. Don't forget to run a virus scanner on your scope!

Which DMM runs Linux?
(sorry for the O.T.)

The new fluke and ( tekrtonix rebranded ) bench multimeters.
They have two fpga's in emwith a nios soft processor. They boot linux ...

8845 and 8846
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Offline T4P

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2012, 03:39:34 pm »
I think you mean trektopnix  ;D ;D ;D ;D
 

Offline olsenn

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2012, 03:42:36 pm »
so if i'm correct it can measure current and voltage at the same time ? ( i read the manual but i am not 100% sure) .

You are correct!
 

Offline Spikee

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2012, 04:28:50 pm »
I just ordered one , will arrive in a few days.
Freelance electronics design service, Small batch assembly, Firmware / WEB / APP development. In Shenzhen China
 

Offline chrome

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2012, 06:53:28 pm »
The person who came up with the idea of running Linux on a DMM is probably the same that thought that scopes should run a full desktop Windows OS, so they can run Excel and minesweep. Don't forget to run a virus scanner on your scope!

Which DMM runs Linux?
(sorry for the O.T.)

The new fluke and ( tekrtonix rebranded ) bench multimeters.
They have two fpga's in emwith a nios soft processor. They boot linux ...

8845 and 8846


I don't really see why you are making such a fuss about this, if you have one you leave it powered on anyway (reference oven and all that), the front button is only a standby button really and then it takes not even half a second to turn on.

Unless you are telling me that all your bench-meters are fully off every time you don't use them.
 

Offline MBY

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2012, 03:13:03 pm »
Speaking of DM3068... I have an DM3061. Its the same family as DM3062 and DM3064, the only differences are IOs, with higher model numbers has more IOs such as GPIB and LAN. But the DM3068 seems like a different beast. I recognize almost all functions in the video, but my 3061 measures only up to 240 µF for instance. One thing that annoy me with the 3061 is the lack of advanced statistics. Clearly all HW is there and there is only a matter of firmware.

Has anybody tried to upgrade the firmware in those DMMs? I lack the std dev measurement and some other small details that feels like its only a new FW revision ahead. I think the fonts and some display real estate could be improved too.

Another thing is the sensors settings that according to the manual should be included. I have exactly zero sensors defined and must define them all manual if I need one. The manual lists a few sensors that should already be defined, the Pt100 for instance.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 03:16:05 pm by MBY »
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2012, 04:14:22 pm »
I don't really see why you are making such a fuss about this, if you have one you leave it powered on anyway (reference oven and all that), the front button is only a standby button really and then it takes not even half a second to turn on.
Let me get more technical then.

1) they use a softcore mapped in an fpga that can barely tick 20Mhz...
2) They need a massive amount of flash and ram to support this.
3 all a multimter dos is switch some relays around , read an adc and do some simple maths to compensate offset / gain and show the result on a display.

A friggin braindead PIC16 series can do that and it will sleep half of the time.
This is the ' we need  5 million transistors to turn on an LED' problem

All that effort and silicon had better be spent making a more precise meter. It adds nothing to the capabilities of the machine. Overkill, overhead , do not want.
And they do crash sometimes...

It is absurd to have to resort to a softprocessor in fpga with operating system for something so simple.
They are more focused on the flashy Pixel display ( why is slow by the way as to write those
Arge digits quite an amount of data has to be blasted . The starbursts that agilent and keithley , or alpha 7*5 for keithley 2002 , use are much faster in that aspect )

The only reason they did it is for the networking. So they could avoid having to write teir own network stack. Buy one then. Vxworks, or freertos will happily provide.
Why didn"t they use an off the shelf soc ?
Its a strange design. Those fpgas are more expensive than a soc . It's like this thing was thrown together and is not a real fluke design..
The older fluke benchmeters like the 45 and 88xx had a real asic to do the analog. They used a hitachi h8 had starburst displays, were fast and reliable.

This thing is slapped together from a bunch of user programable fpga's and discrete components.the software is written lazily by using a full blown operating system. The actual meter code is probably 20 kilobyte. With 2 megs overhead for the operating system....

 It simply does not line up with any of the other machines fluke builds. It is awkward, strange and out of line.

None of the other meters out there use such an aproach.

It's not so much that it is running loonix, its that it does it in a strange way , for strange reasons. The whole design feelws uncomfortable.
There's other things in it that are 'weird'... Stuff is stored in battery backed ram (cr2032 coincell)... Why not eeprom or flash ? There is at least 3 flash chips in that thing... And they need a coin cell ? That is almost not user replacable ( need to break cal seals to swap it... )
They make the inguard outguard using discrete leds and phototransistors ?

The front/ back is not a true switch but some sliding contacts on the pcb held together with crummy
Plastic.

It's like they spent so much money on fpga they had to cut corneres elsewhere to save money , and cut corners in development time by resorting to a resource hungry os so they could use codemonkeys as opposed to paying real programmers.

Half of the parts in that instrument are dedicated to running the os and have nothing to do with measuring...

Very weird.

I'll see if i can get a few pictures of the guts of that thing. There's a department that has one. Maybe over linchtime i will rip it open and write a teardown of it. It's a very weird contraption.

Oh, andi t just doesnt feel right to have to wait that long for it to start.. Yes we power down fully setups over the weekends. Besides linux can boot in under a second. But you need someone who knows how to build such a beast.... Fluke clearly didn't . Pre-chewed , slapped together duct-tape engineering.
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Offline madires

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2012, 05:04:05 pm »
Hi!

It's not so much that it is running loonix, its that it does it in a strange way , for strange reasons. The whole design feelws uncomfortable.
There's other things in it that are 'weird'... Stuff is stored in battery backed ram (cr2032 coincell)... Why not eeprom or flash ? There is at least 3 flash chips in that thing... And they need a coin cell ? That is almost not user replacable ( need to break cal seals to swap it... )
They make the inguard outguard using discrete leds and phototransistors ?

It's designed to generate more revenue. New battery for free and the recalibration for only $250 :-) Ouch!
And regarding Linux, some companies miss one important point: the GPL. They have to give you the source code. Let's start hacking ;-)

Cheers
 madires
 

Offline M. András

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2012, 05:58:29 pm »
what about the inside/stuffs of an equalent agilent 6.5 digit meter, of that fluke
 

Offline Lukas

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2012, 06:45:44 pm »
Fluke provides a firmware Update for the linux dmm. It's a 40MB executable. After extracting the exe itself and some zip archives in it, you reach the actual firmware. It consists of the kernel (2MB) itself and a jffs2 image. The latter contains the root filesystem with the 'DMM app'. (/usr/bin/zfp, 1MB) Anyone got a clue, what zfp may mean?
The boot process is controlled by the shell script /etc/rc
  • mount some ramdisks, sys, proc and a readonly partition (calibration?)
  • setup gpib
  • set mac and ip address
  • launch inetd (ftp, telnet)
  • sleep for 2 seconds (!)
  • start the dmm app
 

Offline chrome

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2012, 06:54:29 pm »
And regarding Linux, some companies miss one important point: the GPL. They have to give you the source code. Let's start hacking ;-)

They give the source code on the disk, I wondered if someone could add in the temperature measurement in the lower models (it's only 4wire resistance anyway).
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Video Review: Rigol DM3068 6.5 Digit Digital Multimeter
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2012, 07:39:06 pm »
Fluke provides a firmware Update for the linux dmm. It's a 40MB executable. After extracting the exe itself and some zip archives in it, you reach the actual firmware. It consists of the kernel (2MB) itself and a jffs2 image. The latter contains the root filesystem with the 'DMM app'. (/usr/bin/zfp, 1MB) Anyone got a clue, what zfp may mean?
The boot process is controlled by the shell script /etc/rc
  • mount some ramdisks, sys, proc and a readonly partition (calibration?)
  • setup gpib
  • set mac and ip address
  • launch inetd (ftp, telnet)
  • sleep for 2 seconds (!)
  • start the dmm app

ZFP. Zipped Flash ? There is a flash file system for small linux kernels that uses a compressed format. A single file holds all the submodules required for the application to run. This is stored as a compressed file. decompress in one shot from flash to ram and execute. this allows for easy application updates ( updates where the os does not need an update, only the application. you can use tftp for example to alter just one file. the reason is to avoid fragmentation in flash pages and reduce the amount of write-erase cycles.


now, back to this thing.. doesn't anyone find this totally absurd ? a 2 megabyte kernel , dynamically mounted systems ,s sleep times , waiting for ipaddress and then decompressing a megabyts large runtime to make a voltmeter ?

the rom in a 34401 mulitmeter is 64 kilobyte ...(27c512 ..)

un-be-lievable... soon we will have lightswitches that need to boot linux to turn on the light. whenever you walk into a room you haven't been in for 2 days you first need to apply 5 patches and rebuild the kernel for the switch so you can turn on the light.

one of these days i am going to move to a little tropical island where there is no technology..... it's just too much...
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