EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Hugoneus on March 17, 2014, 03:24:59 pm
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In this episode Shahriar reviews and demos the second revision of the industry's first Mixed Domain Oscilloscope from Tektronix. The MDO4000B series offers improved signal integrity and performance. The reviewed model is a MDO4104B-6 which offers 16-Channel Logic Analyzer, 4-Channel Oscilloscope with 1GHz of analog bandwidth as well a 6GHz Spectrum Analyzer with greater than 1GHz of instantaneous capture bandwidth with 65dB of dynamic range.
After an overview of the instrument's interfaces and built quality, the block diagram and principle operation of the instrument is explained. The time-correlated digital, analog and RF capturing capability is described and its advantages for debugging complex mixed-domain systems is explored. Instrument probes, accessories and various modules are also presented.
The instrument is used to measure an ultra-pure single-tone signal at various frequencies for THD, SFDR and dynamic range measurements. For the main demonstration, a complete I/Q modulator system prototype is presented. The prototype includes a Maxim MAX2721 modulator, external PA, antenna diversity switch SW-277, digital control circuitry, power-grid DC-DC converters, external step attenuators, an Agilent E4342B synthesizer for LO generation and an Agilent N6020A arbitrary waveform generator for baseband signal generation. The Tektronix MDO is used to monitor RF, baseband, digital and power-supply analog waveforms. The system includes an array of problems including intermittent spurious tones, power supply dependent spectral noise, antenna switching glitches and 256-QAM constellation imperfections. The MDO is used to analyze, measure and solve all system problems. Tektronix SignalVu is used to analyze the system performance. As a final experiment, the MDO is used to demodulate a 1GHz bandwidth 32-QAM 500MS/s signal centered at a 3GHz carrier. The experiment documents can be downloaded from The Signal Path website.
You can watch the video here: [1 Hour and 50 Minutes]
http://thesignalpath.com/blogs/ (http://thesignalpath.com/blogs/)
YouTube direct link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyzwS5Ozb7U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyzwS5Ozb7U)
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I was just thinking today, I have not heard from Shahriar lately, I wonder what he's doing? :-+
Edit: If there is a correlation I should think that more often :-DD
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I was just thinking today, I have not heard from Shahriar lately, I wonder what he's doing? :-+
Edit: If there is a correlation I should think that more often :-DD
Thanks for thinking of me. I have been very busy lately. A huge project at Bell Labs. I have a few videos lined up and hopefully will be up soon.
Cheers,
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...I have a few videos lined up and hopefully will be up soon.
That's good to hear. I always enjoy your videos. I'll look forward to watching this one tonight.
Thanks!
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I was just thinking today, I have not heard from Shahriar lately, I wonder what he's doing? :-+
Exactly, I was wondering the same, even looked at the website and forum but there were no updates either.
Got me a little bit worried even...
Welcome back!
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Welcome back, Shahriar. I too was wondering where you have been. I always enjoy your videos and the in-depth technical explanations you give. Looking forward to watching this feature film length one which I know I shall enjoy more than a feature film!
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Great to see another video, the signalpath is just the best of the best. :-+ :-+
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Your back ,Excellent,your vids are always worth watching :-+ .I Was worried you had packed in doing videos ,because of your new job .
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Welcome back, Shahriar.
Most definitely, thank you and please keep them coming :-+
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Your back ,Excellent,your vids are always worth watching :-+ .I Was worried you had packed in doing videos ,because of your new job .
No... I have just been very busy at work. Big project at Bell Labs.
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As per request, I have attached the experiment documentation here as well.
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I'll jump on the pile here too - really great video, including some very practical examples of where the time correlation amongst the multiple domains is truly valuable. Great job!
(I love my MDO4K!)
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Grape juice?
PS. Wonderful video. Inspiring, actually. Thanks.
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Finally another video from. I still impressed from the agilent 63ghz scope video and now a video of this teltrpnix beast. I'm very impresse.
So you work at bell laboratories but what bell laboratpries do today?
Wish that nexts videos will still be so interesting!
I be amazed on how much content there are in your videos!
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Grape juice?
PS. Wonderful video. Inspiring, actually. Thanks.
Ha! That is red wine. I guess, you could just call it old grape juice.
And for the clock, it was set wrong! It should be PM and not AM. :)
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Grape juice?
PS. Wonderful video. Inspiring, actually. Thanks.
Ha! That is red wine. I guess, you could just call it old grape juice.
And for the clock, it was set wrong! It should be PM and not AM. :)
Does that make your personality more appealing for YouTube? :-DD
Delightful video. Glad your back.
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Your lab is as impressive as your videos.
Thank you for explaining all of these technical aspects.
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w2aew kindly contributed the information below on my YouTube channel. I would like to share it here as well:
- The numeric keypad can also be used just about anywhere that a numeric input is requested (not just on the spectrum analyzer function)
- On the passive probes - those are 1GHz passive probes, with only 3.9pF of loading! Plus, there is a serial communication across that "pin" which the scope uses to identify the specific probe, and apply the compensation factors for that probe on that channel.
- On the spectrum analyzer, the markers can be set to "Relative" mode, so that you can measure things like LO and LO image rejection levels relative to the carrier directly, without calculation.
- On the Freq/Span menu, and the Marker Menu, you have a Ref->Center function to quickly tune the center frequency to the highest RF signal peak.
- The RF Amplitude vs. Time trace is actually simply the sqrt(I^2+Q^2), not the IFFT.
- When you were looking at the RF compression on SignalVu (pronounced Signal-view), you could turn on the vectors in the constellation display which would give you another view of the compression of the high amplitude IQ trajectories - where you'd likely see the limiting that the PA was imposing.
- In SignalVu, there are up to 5 markers that are fully correlated in time and frequency - allowing you to identify time-transient events that might affect EVM during particular symbol transitions, etc.
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w2aew kindly contributed the information below on my YouTube channel. I would like to share it here as well:
- The numeric keypad can also be used just about anywhere that a numeric input is requested (not just on the spectrum analyzer function)
- On the passive probes - those are 1GHz passive probes, with only 3.9pF of loading! Plus, there is a serial communication across that "pin" which the scope uses to identify the specific probe, and apply the compensation factors for that probe on that channel.
- On the spectrum analyzer, the markers can be set to "Relative" mode, so that you can measure things like LO and LO image rejection levels relative to the carrier directly, without calculation.
- On the Freq/Span menu, and the Marker Menu, you have a Ref->Center function to quickly tune the center frequency to the highest RF signal peak.
- The RF Amplitude vs. Time trace is actually simply the sqrt(I^2+Q^2), not the IFFT.
- When you were looking at the RF compression on SignalVu (pronounced Signal-view), you could turn on the vectors in the constellation display which would give you another view of the compression of the high amplitude IQ trajectories - where you'd likely see the limiting that the PA was imposing.
- In SignalVu, there are up to 5 markers that are fully correlated in time and frequency - allowing you to identify time-transient events that might affect EVM during particular symbol transitions, etc.
I also congratulated you on an excellent video - great job! It's instruments like this that make me love my job!
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Finally another video from. I still impressed from the agilent 63ghz scope video and now a video of this teltrpnix beast. I'm very impresse.
So you work at bell laboratories but what bell laboratpries do today?
Wish that nexts videos will still be so interesting!
I be amazed on how much content there are in your videos!
I am the technical manager of the ASICs design team at Bell Labs. We build ASICs for the next generation of wireless and wireline communication systems. I am actually hiring right now! If you want to design mixed signal mm-wave circuits, drop me a line! :)
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Ya imagine you could do something like that after making some research of you online you and find your thesis. It is very impressive, You've done a betifull work!
So If you've to do it again what has changed since 2010(am I right) in high speed adcs and data conversion technique?
Keep on doing videos, they are amazing!
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Finally another video from. I still impressed from the agilent 63ghz scope video and now a video of this teltrpnix beast. I'm very impresse.
So you work at bell laboratories but what bell laboratpries do today?
Wish that nexts videos will still be so interesting!
I be amazed on how much content there are in your videos!
I am the technical manager of the ASICs design team at Bell Labs. We build ASICs for the next generation of wireless and wireline communication systems. I am actually hiring right now! If you want to design mixed signal mm-wave circuits, drop me a line! :)
Good to know, Shahriar. As you may realize, I come across a lot of people with these skills in my job. I'll certainly pass along the info regarding some potential opportunities in your group. Do you have needs for engineering techs with RF experience (testing, ATE, PCB layout, etc.)? I have a friend that used to work for me that may be looking...
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Finally another video from. I still impressed from the agilent 63ghz scope video and now a video of this teltrpnix beast. I'm very impresse.
So you work at bell laboratories but what bell laboratpries do today?
Wish that nexts videos will still be so interesting!
I be amazed on how much content there are in your videos!
I am the technical manager of the ASICs design team at Bell Labs. We build ASICs for the next generation of wireless and wireline communication systems. I am actually hiring right now! If you want to design mixed signal mm-wave circuits, drop me a line! :)
Good to know, Shahriar. As you may realize, I come across a lot of people with these skills in my job. I'll certainly pass along the info regarding some potential opportunities in your group. Do you have needs for engineering techs with RF experience (testing, ATE, PCB layout, etc.)? I have a friend that used to work for me that may be looking...
Thanks for getting back to me.
The background I am looking for is someone with layout experience in SiGe BiCMOS and deep sub-micron CMOS for mm-wave and mixed signal ASIC design. Making circuits for > 100Gb/s and 100GHz operation or high-speed analog processors.
Cheers,
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You develop high speed adc, there is :box: a maximus sample rate that physically cannot be reach or some day we could see 300gs/s adcs. A 200 gs/s has ever been created?
So theorically you could work for next generatio oscilloscope adcs.
What are the application of this adc?
You should do a video about design an adc, like the one you have done about dacs.
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The background I am looking for is someone with layout experience in SiGe BiCMOS and deep sub-micron CMOS for mm-wave and mixed signal ASIC design. Making circuits for > 100Gb/s and 100GHz operation or high-speed analog processors.
OK, thanks. The particular guy I was thinking of is more of a PCB layout guy, not an IC designer. I wonder, are you using IBM 9HP, or do you have access to a different high-performance SiGe process?
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Finally another video from. I still impressed from the agilent 63ghz scope video and now a video of this teltrpnix beast. I'm very impresse.
So you work at bell laboratories but what bell laboratpries do today?
Wish that nexts videos will still be so interesting!
I be amazed on how much content there are in your videos!
I am the technical manager of the ASICs design team at Bell Labs. We build ASICs for the next generation of wireless and wireline communication systems. I am actually hiring right now! If you want to design mixed signal mm-wave circuits, drop me a line! :)
We should talk sometime Shahrirar -- I'm the principal design engineer for AT&T mobility on the network side (IP network that is, not RF) - at least one region. :)
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Finally another video from. I still impressed from the agilent 63ghz scope video and now a video of this teltrpnix beast. I'm very impresse.
So you work at bell laboratories but what bell laboratpries do today?
Wish that nexts videos will still be so interesting!
I be amazed on how much content there are in your videos!
I am the technical manager of the ASICs design team at Bell Labs. We build ASICs for the next generation of wireless and wireline communication systems. I am actually hiring right now! If you want to design mixed signal mm-wave circuits, drop me a line! :)
We should talk sometime Shahrirar -- I'm the principal design engineer for AT&T mobility on the network side (IP network that is, not RF) - at least one region. :)
Of course! Anytime. Just let me know.
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The background I am looking for is someone with layout experience in SiGe BiCMOS and deep sub-micron CMOS for mm-wave and mixed signal ASIC design. Making circuits for > 100Gb/s and 100GHz operation or high-speed analog processors.
OK, thanks. The particular guy I was thinking of is more of a PCB layout guy, not an IC designer. I wonder, are you using IBM 9HP, or do you have access to a different high-performance SiGe process?
We have access to Jazz. :)
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What is this IBM 9HP?
I really know little think on rf side.
Anywhere I've see your post on the wif-fi comunication, it is very impressive. Also the test equipment on it is soo expensive starting from the agilent signal generators (PSG)?
What I don't get is what are the two instrument with the rect around ( asigna generators and a power meter pheraps?). (I know is not the correct post to post this question, but anyway.)
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What is this IBM 9HP?
I really know little think on rf side.
Anywhere I've see your post on the wif-fi comunication, it is very impressive. Also the test equipment on it is soo expensive starting from the agilent signal generators (PSG)?
What I don't get is what are the two instrument with the rect around ( asigna generators and a power meter pheraps?). (I know is not the correct post to post this question, but anyway.)
If I can answer for Shahriar...
IBM 9HP is the latest generation of ultra-high speed silicon-germanium BiCMOS integrated circuit process technology. Here's an example of what is being done with it: http://www.tek.com/document/news-release/tektronix-adopt-ibm%E2%80%99s-9hp-sige-technology-next-generation-70ghz-oscilloscope-0 (http://www.tek.com/document/news-release/tektronix-adopt-ibm%E2%80%99s-9hp-sige-technology-next-generation-70ghz-oscilloscope-0)
The instruments you put a rectangle around are a 4 output variable power supply and a multi-channel high-speed arbitrary waveform generator. The power supply is providing DC bias to the bias-tees connected to the AWG outputs.
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Thank you for the info about the intrumentation and for the ic technology!
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Shahriar - I have an off-topic question for you...
What camera do you use for your videos?
I've used a Canon digital camera for most of mine, but there are limitations. I recently picked up a Sony Handicam (HDR-CX240), and I'm still deciding whether I really like it or not.
You're video clarity, focus, color quality, etc. are all very good, so I'm wondering what you use.
Thanks again,
Alan
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Shahriar - I have an off-topic question for you...
What camera do you use for your videos?
I've used a Canon digital camera for most of mine, but there are limitations. I recently picked up a Sony Handicam (HDR-CX240), and I'm still deciding whether I really like it or not.
You're video clarity, focus, color quality, etc. are all very good, so I'm wondering what you use.
Thanks again,
Alan
Thanks Alan for answering the above questions for me. You are correct of course.
I use a Sony camera, I have forgotten the model number now. I will check and send you the model number when I get home. The problem that I have is that I need an external microphone to improve the sound. If I have all my equipment on, I am essentially sitting next to a jet engine...
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Shahriar - I have an off-topic question for you...
What camera do you use for your videos?
I've used a Canon digital camera for most of mine, but there are limitations. I recently picked up a Sony Handicam (HDR-CX240), and I'm still deciding whether I really like it or not.
You're video clarity, focus, color quality, etc. are all very good, so I'm wondering what you use.
Thanks again,
Alan
Thanks Alan for answering the above questions for me. You are correct of course.
I use a Sony camera, I have forgotten the model number now. I will check and send you the model number when I get home. The problem that I have is that I need an external microphone to improve the sound. If I have all my equipment on, I am essentially sitting next to a jet engine...
A lot of very good test equipments like yours make the problem of noise. At home I have an old Tektronix TDS540 scope and alone it make a lot of noise. I can image how much noise all yourse equipment do!
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Shahriar - I have an off-topic question for you...
What camera do you use for your videos?
I've used a Canon digital camera for most of mine, but there are limitations. I recently picked up a Sony Handicam (HDR-CX240), and I'm still deciding whether I really like it or not.
You're video clarity, focus, color quality, etc. are all very good, so I'm wondering what you use.
Thanks again,
Alan
Thanks Alan for answering the above questions for me. You are correct of course.
I use a Sony camera, I have forgotten the model number now. I will check and send you the model number when I get home. The problem that I have is that I need an external microphone to improve the sound. If I have all my equipment on, I am essentially sitting next to a jet engine...
I know what you mean! The higher performance the equipment, the more fans they have, LOL! Thanks in advance re the Sony camera. I think your audio is fine. I haven't resorted to an external mic yet, but then again, my videos are not professional quality.
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Hello
First of all, thank you very much for this new video. Apart from it showing that you are still around, your style of putting the equipment to work during reviews is very cool.
When investigating the intermittent spurs (eventually caused by the coupling cap on D3 if I remember correctly), you enumerated possible causes, amongst which there was the possibility of two traces being close together. I am currently designing RF boards; this is my first "real" RF project and I'm scared to no end of committing exactly this mistake. I'm prepared to go through a set of board revisions, but still I was wondering whether you had hints for me. I know that this is a broad topic, so I have to particular questions. First, do you have any rule of thumb on the distance of PCB traces to prevent you from running into the coupling issue (or any other issue, for that matter)? Second, can you point me to a resource that gives an introduction to the topic. I'm happy to dig into it for myself, I'm just looking for a place to start. I'm interested in the frequency range of 50 MHz -- 1.5 GHz.
Regards and thank you
Matt
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What camera do you use for your videos?
I've used a Canon digital camera for most of mine, but there are limitations. I recently picked up a Sony Handicam (HDR-CX240), and I'm still deciding whether I really like it or not.
You're video clarity, focus, color quality, etc. are all very good, so I'm wondering what you use.
Always bare in mind that even the best tool can be used to give poor results if you let it.
And the cheapest tools can be made to work really well if you know how best to use them.
This is certainly true of video cameras and encoding.
The HDR-CX240 can no doubt be used to give great quality video, but it is hardly a proper low light camera or lens. Decent cameras usually start around the $800 mark or so.
I use a Canon HF G10.
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What camera do you use for your videos?
I've used a Canon digital camera for most of mine, but there are limitations. I recently picked up a Sony Handicam (HDR-CX240), and I'm still deciding whether I really like it or not.
You're video clarity, focus, color quality, etc. are all very good, so I'm wondering what you use.
Always bare in mind that even the best tool can be used to give poor results if you let it.
And the cheapest tools can be made to work really well if you know how best to use them.
This is certainly true of video cameras and encoding.
The HDR-CX240 can no doubt be used to give great quality video, but it is hardly a proper low light camera or lens. Decent cameras usually start around the $800 mark or so.
I use a Canon HF G10.
Thanks Dave - I was going to ask you what you use. I think you hit the nail on the head - my biggest problem is proper lighting in my cramped little basement lab. I'd love to find a camera that does better in low lighting like I've got, and has decent macro capability, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
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Probably would be cheaper ( and better for your eyes) to get some more light in there instead, and to have it directed towards the worktop so the scope screens are not blown out.
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Awesome video Shariar! Much of the content is beyond my level but you have a way of presenting it that lets me still follow and learn many new concepts. Really excellent :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Thanks Dave - I was going to ask you what you use. I think you hit the nail on the head - my biggest problem is proper lighting in my cramped little basement lab. I'd love to find a camera that does better in low lighting like I've got, and has decent macro capability, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Unless you are buying something 2nd hand and specific, those requirements just aren't compatible.
I have 500+lux on the bench in my lab which isn't bad lighting, but that is still "low light" when I have to open the aperture to get good depth of field on macro shots.
For good macro shots you are better off getting a proper macro lens. I use an Opteka x10 macro lens for the close shots and screw and unscrew it every shot if need be.
So bottom line is I'd spend more on the camera with the best sensor and lens you can get and forgot about any macro capability it has, leave that to an external lens.
But lighting is everything, even my $1500 HF G10 can struggle in 500lux on the stuff I need to shoot.
It's hard to explain it all without actually demoing.
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What camera do you use for your videos?
I've used a Canon digital camera for most of mine, but there are limitations. I recently picked up a Sony Handicam (HDR-CX240), and I'm still deciding whether I really like it or not.
You're video clarity, focus, color quality, etc. are all very good, so I'm wondering what you use.
Always bare in mind that even the best tool can be used to give poor results if you let it.
And the cheapest tools can be made to work really well if you know how best to use them.
This is certainly true of video cameras and encoding.
The HDR-CX240 can no doubt be used to give great quality video, but it is hardly a proper low light camera or lens. Decent cameras usually start around the $800 mark or so.
I use a Canon HF G10.
Thanks Dave - I was going to ask you what you use. I think you hit the nail on the head - my biggest problem is proper lighting in my cramped little basement lab. I'd love to find a camera that does better in low lighting like I've got, and has decent macro capability, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
I am sorry for the delay in my response. I have been pretty busy. The camera that I use is a Sony HDR-CX160 and as others have mentioned lighting is very important. I actually don't have very good lighting in my room. And thanks a lot for answering my other question. I appreciate your detailed and careful reply.
Cheers,
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Thanks Dave - I was going to ask you what you use. I think you hit the nail on the head - my biggest problem is proper lighting in my cramped little basement lab. I'd love to find a camera that does better in low lighting like I've got, and has decent macro capability, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Unless you are buying something 2nd hand and specific, those requirements just aren't compatible.
I have 500+lux on the bench in my lab which isn't bad lighting, but that is still "low light" when I have to open the aperture to get good depth of field on macro shots.
For good macro shots you are better off getting a proper macro lens. I use an Opteka x10 macro lens for the close shots and screw and unscrew it every shot if need be.
So bottom line is I'd spend more on the camera with the best sensor and lens you can get and forgot about any macro capability it has, leave that to an external lens.
But lighting is everything, even my $1500 HF G10 can struggle in 500lux on the stuff I need to shoot.
It's hard to explain it all without actually demoing.
Thanks Dave and Shahriar for your input. I have a lot to learn when it comes to good cinematography so that I can come close to the video quality and clarity that you guys are doing. I'm strongly considering investing in a better camera as well as some modest lighting improvements.
Dave - sounds like you may have hit on another good video idea for EEVBlog - do's and don'ts for indoor video recording, with actual results, for electronics video bloggers...
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Another great video - the biggest problem is that it demonstrates the use of equipment that I can only drool about.
I particularly like the way that you don't move the camera about too much. Some other bloggers' videos, who have otherwise excellent content, are ruined by waving the camera about almost continuously.
Keep 'em coming - I don't mind drooling that much.
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Dave - sounds like you may have hit on another good video idea for EEVBlog - do's and don'ts for indoor video recording, with actual results, for electronics video bloggers...
It's been on my list for a long long time...
Actually not easy to shoot, as you need to set up multiple camera shots, show the menus and settings etc, various controlled test scenarios that show the difference effectively etc
And then make it applicable to as many people as possible of course.
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Another great video - the biggest problem is that it demonstrates the use of equipment that I can only drool about.
I particularly like the way that you don't move the camera about too much. Some other bloggers' videos, who have otherwise excellent content, are ruined by waving the camera about almost continuously.
Keep 'em coming - I don't mind drooling that much.
I have been focusing on higher-end equipment lately. I promise to do more entry level gear too. Hopefully my reviews also carry a tutorial aspect, which is equipment independent.
Cheers,
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I have been focusing on higher-end equipment lately.
I love that you do. Equipment that I can afford is boring, I probably either have it on my bench and can just play with it myself, or have had it in the past and played with it, or can go buy it and play with it! It's cool to see what else is out there. :-+
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For the next videos I would have another repair video (wish that IF there will be another repair video, there no a psu problem) or a design and charaterization of and adc like the video you do on the dac or some theory video on high speed eletronics (fpga, high speed adc, dsp, ecc).
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I really enjoyed watching your video Shahriar. The video demonstates many possibilities for measurements with this scope. Even if your situation was quite exotic for my point of view, I've learned much. I would like to know if there are many users in the world which would use the scope as you demonstated well.
Two years ago I purchased the older MDO4000 scope with 3 GHz and 500MHz analog option for the institute I work for. I must say, Tektronix did not learn much about beautiful user interfaces. That kind of baby blue does not attract me well, but the device does its job. Even in the MSO5000B-Series with Windows 7 Ultimate x64 there is not an easy way to change color schemes for the user interface at all. Neither for the Windows UI, nor for the Tektronix software, but you can change the trace colors up to total frontpanel channel dismatch. :wtf: 15k € Scope without simplest options?
I accept that Tek decided to go the way with option key modules, but something is not understandable for me.
Anyway, enogh ranted up to now. I'ts always a joy to see your videos. Well prepared, well explained and also very comprehansible for me.
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Just want to say Thanks. YES, I just finished the whole video today. I always learn a lot from your video.