Author Topic: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh  (Read 3133 times)

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Online 2N3055

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WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« on: April 11, 2018, 09:37:22 pm »
Lecroy promised refresh of WaveSurfer 3000 series.

Here it is:

http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/wavesurfer-3000z-oscilloscopes/wavesurfer-3014z
https://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/teeldyne_wavesurfer3000z.pdf

In a nutshell, deeper sample memory (from 10MS to 20MS per ch), allegedly faster processor, and capacitive touchscreen....

All in all, nice but nothing much....

Waiting for a review...

Regards to all.
 

Online tautech

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2018, 09:47:09 pm »
I often wondered why Peak detect wasn't available in these and SDS3000 models like it is in all the other models that Siglent make.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2018, 10:23:24 pm »
I often wondered why Peak detect wasn't available in these and SDS3000 models like it is in all the other models that Siglent make.
Me too... :-//
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2018, 10:42:09 pm »
I often wondered why Peak detect wasn't available in these and SDS3000 models like it is in all the other models that Siglent make.

Careful, rumor has it if you ask 3 times, you will summon him.
 

Online tautech

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2018, 10:53:21 pm »
I often wondered why Peak detect wasn't available in these and SDS3000 models like it is in all the other models that Siglent make.

Careful, rumor has it if you ask 3 times, you will summon him.
I don't think so. (He's already been seen browsing this thread.)

Why ?
Since WS3k and SDS3k were a collaborative effort by LeCroy and Siglent it might seem LeCroy didn't want/need Peak detect capabilities as it's not part of their offerings line up anyway.
Maybe they think trigger capabilities, Persistence and colored intensity grading negate the need for Peak detect.
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Offline maginnovision

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2018, 12:55:29 am »
Display is 30% bigger then competitive offerings? what about R&S 3000 series? Guess they just count out whoever meets or exceeds their claims and they can all be true.
 

Online tautech

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 03:14:56 am »
Display is 30% bigger then competitive offerings? what about R&S 3000 series? Guess they just count out whoever meets or exceeds their claims and they can all be true.
Probably was in 2013 when they were first released.
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Offline maginnovision

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 03:40:25 am »
Display is 30% bigger then competitive offerings? what about R&S 3000 series? Guess they just count out whoever meets or exceeds their claims and they can all be true.
Probably was in 2013 when they were first released.

I'd say release date doesn't make the lies anymore acceptable. The copy SHOULD be updated since it's a live website.
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 06:16:19 am »
 :-DD
i'm sorry but 3014z is so... rigol-y
capacitive screen is a must if you ever used this scope, faster processor is a must too but how fast is faster? they need a very fast upgrade.. i see no new options so for now, meh. newest R&S are far more interesting i'm afraid
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 07:19:39 am by JPortici »
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 06:42:49 am »
Display is 30% bigger then competitive offerings? what about R&S 3000 series? Guess they just count out whoever meets or exceeds their claims and they can all be true.

Well, compared to Keysight 3000T series it is bigger ..
 

Online tautech

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 07:25:53 am »
I often wondered why Peak detect wasn't available in these and SDS3000 models like it is in all the other models that Siglent make.
Me too... :-//
We've already found out the new Siglent competitor in this class will have Peak detect.
It will be a new series SDS5000X with BW's to 1 GHz.
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Online nctnico

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 01:58:59 pm »
Display is 30% bigger then competitive offerings? what about R&S 3000 series? Guess they just count out whoever meets or exceeds their claims and they can all be true.
AFAIK R&S RTB2000 and RTM3000 have the same 10.1" screen (with a high resolution). The price point will be interesting though. I think the RTM3000 is more expensive and the RTB2000 'only' goes to 200MHz.

BTW: agreed on the missing peak-detect!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline 0xfede

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 02:05:15 pm »
Display is 30% bigger then competitive offerings? what about R&S 3000 series? Guess they just count out whoever meets or exceeds their claims and they can all be true.
AFAIK R&S RTB2000 and RTM3000 have the same 10.1" screen (with a high resolution). The price point will be interesting though. I think the RTM3000 is more expensive and the RTB2000 'only' goes to 200MHz.

BTW: agreed on the missing peak-detect!

Actually RTB2000 goes up to 300MHZ.

Best,
0xfede
Semel in anno licet insanire.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2018, 06:28:18 pm »
OK, my bad. Still with 1M Ohm only inputs getting 300MHz bandwidth is kind of wishfull thinking. Over 100MHz I rather use probes with a 50 Ohm interface towards the scope otherwise you don't really know whether what you see on the screen is due to the probe or due to the circuit.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2018, 06:46:48 pm »
OK, my bad. Still with 1M Ohm only inputs getting 300MHz bandwidth is kind of wishfull thinking. Over 100MHz I rather use probes with a 50 Ohm interface towards the scope otherwise you don't really know whether what you see on the screen is due to the probe or due to the circuit.
This ....  :-+
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 06:30:01 am »
I wonder... where does the update come from? I suppose it's siglent that updated the hardware? Because i know that lecroy doesn't care for this segment or they would release something that can actually compete with keysight and (now) r&s
 

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2018, 06:58:21 am »
I'm actually curious what will SDS5000X bring to the table... And don't say bugs, cause new products from A brands are also full of bugs lately.
Rushed, rapid time to market product release schedules are everybody's problem.

All of the 3000 series scopes from A brands are waay too expensive for what they give.
Advanced math and triggers and basic serial protocols triggers and decode must be free on a 4000 USD 100MHz scope...

Also, there is not a peep from Rigol as to where are they going from here...
Their 4000, 6000 series is outdated and should be seriously upgraded to keep up with what is happening..
Just hackability is not enough it this segment...
 

Online tautech

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2018, 07:21:21 am »
I wonder... where does the update come from? I suppose it's siglent that updated the hardware?
Possibly but the SDS3k webpage indicates it's still 10M/ch and there is also the chance that FW has freed up memory as V2 FW did in SDS2k models by doubling available memory from 35 to 70Mpts without HW changes.

Maybe just with SDS5kX models not far away Siglent are keeping LeCroy on board with a tweaked WS3000 knowing SDS5kX will outperform it and instead of having to share worldwide sales in this segment Siglent can have a full slice of the action to themselves. They've got a better and stronger distribution network than they did when SDS/WS3k was first released.

Interesting times.  :)
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Offline smarteebit

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2018, 08:05:06 am »

BTW: agreed on the missing peak-detect!

Glad to see you and @tautech reach an agreement on some point.  ;D
 

Online nctnico

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2018, 08:39:58 am »
I'm actually curious what will SDS5000X bring to the table... And don't say bugs, cause new products from A brands are also full of bugs lately.
Rushed, rapid time to market product release schedules are everybody's problem.
True but the A-brands seem to be better at fixing them within a reasonable time frame and it usually are bugs which are much harder to spot.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 10:35:10 am »
I'm actually curious what will SDS5000X bring to the table... And don't say bugs, cause new products from A brands are also full of bugs lately.
Rushed, rapid time to market product release schedules are everybody's problem.
True but the A-brands seem to be better at fixing them within a reasonable time frame and it usually are bugs which are much harder to spot.

Explain that to RTB2000... 😁
Big companies also have very formal and rigid change management systems. So in reality, they are also very slow, despite professional effort.
If you want very stable product, old platforms are that, stable (Keysight 3000 series is good example).
They all need few years to make it very good. These devices are incredibly complex for anybody.

Dont't get me wrong, I'm cautiously sceptical and don't expect miracles.
But likes of Siglents and Rigols are getting slowly there. This new generation that will come out soon will probably be game changer..

For instance take a look at Siglent SDS1104X-E.  Out of the box that thing is more useful than stock DSOX3014T. DSOX3014T has no serial  decodes and triggers, it has no 500uV/div front end etc. As a general purpose mixed signal troubleshooting tool it is miles better than scope 4 times it's price. Same can be said  for some excellent GW Instek machines. Hell, even Rigol DS1000Z with it's very basic implementation of triggers and decodes will do something in a pinch. And on DSOX3014T set of basic decodes and triggers costs more than any of these scopes.

And now take SDS1104X-E, and make it much better specs, bandwidth and such... And price it right... And than wait a bit until it stabilizes, software wise..

Regards
Sinisa
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2018, 12:56:09 pm »
I'm actually curious what will SDS5000X bring to the table... And don't say bugs, cause new products from A brands are also full of bugs lately.
Rushed, rapid time to market product release schedules are everybody's problem.
True but the A-brands seem to be better at fixing them within a reasonable time frame and it usually are bugs which are much harder to spot.

Explain that to RTB2000... 😁
Big companies also have very formal and rigid change management systems. So in reality, they are also very slow, despite professional effort.
Not always. Keysight usually comes up with a test version to fix the most urgent problems quickly. The same goes for GW Instek. But yes, official release cycles are longer. Still there is a huge difference between how well firmware gets tested. Rigol and Siglent are pretty bad at testing firmware before releasing.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online tautech

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Re: WaveSurfer 3000z - 3000 refresh
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2018, 09:58:07 am »
I wonder... where does the update come from? I suppose it's siglent that updated the hardware?
Possibly but the SDS3k webpage indicates it's still 10M/ch and there is also the chance that FW has freed up memory as V2 FW did in SDS2k models by doubling available memory from 35 to 70Mpts without HW changes.

Maybe just with SDS5kX models not far away Siglent are keeping LeCroy on board with a tweaked WS3000 knowing SDS5kX will outperform it and instead of having to share worldwide sales in this segment Siglent can have a full slice of the action to themselves. They've got a better and stronger distribution network than they did when SDS/WS3k was first released.

Interesting times.  :)
Well lookie here:
SDS3000X
http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=1949&tid=1&T=2 (if you can read Chinese)

The SDS3000 has been refreshed too just as the WS3000 has.
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