EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: 001 on September 30, 2019, 02:47:55 pm
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Hi
Actual tread in the end of 2019
Almost all electronics produced by china plants now
So china EEs becames most experienced EEs in the world
What tools they use? What tools use china electronic amateurs?
Finally what china tools at ebay worth the money?
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This thread start is not designed to cause a stir at all.
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I would say that all that have a thread in EEVBLOG starting with "WTF".
Now that the PoC has been finished, we may see it more often.
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Depend on the person choosing the tool. For me, almost all of them worth the money, not only from China, but from other places too.
If your question is which most worth the money? then the $8 transistor tester, and now the hottest one is the $50 nanovna.
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Depend on the person choosing the tool. For me, almost all of them worth the money, not only from China, but from other places too.
If your question is which most worth the money? then the $8 transistor tester, and now the hottest one is the $50 nanovna.
What is nanovna?
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https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/)
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I have an SMD rework station which works very well. Different heads for different configurations are readily available for it, as well.
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I have an SMD rework station which works very well. Different heads for different configurations are readily available for it, as well.
What type? :-//
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Not eBay but anyway worth the money: LAOA117130 sidecutters (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32815431945.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d2l14dP)
Bought two of them one and a half years ago and they are still as good as new. Of course, I don't use them to cut springs but for all other electronics work they get used every day. I especially like that they cut right at the surface if required. They definitely don't feel cheap compare well to a Knipex for three times the money.
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Thank You for Your experience :-+
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It's a meaninglessly generalized question that won't have a useful answer.
Yes and no, it all depends on the tool, the application, the user, etc.
There are plenty of Chinese made tools that are actually good and will do the job they're intended for well. There are plenty more that are cheap and have corners cut but if you're not looking for heavy duty, high longevity, or extended repeatability they will do the job fine. Then there's crap where too many corners have been cut and they really don't adequately fill the use case for the tool.
Then there's the user's requirements, in my mind the biggest issue with Chinese made tools is that they are arbitrarily specified and don't actually live up to published specifications - this makes them actually dangerous or unsuited for work they claim to be suited for. This can be avoided almost entirely by buying through reputable sellers and buying reputable brands that don't overstate their specifications and actually to test their equipment. A lot of the prevalence of Chinese tools on the cheap end is that meeting the specification doesn't actually matter for a large number of users buying the cheapest stuff - so they just advertise something inflated to draw in buyers, then still get decent ratings or whatever when the users don't come close to using it in a way that would test the specification.
So if you're choosing your vendor and brand carefully, you can get exactly what you expect to meet your use case. If not, well you could get something that's a powerful tool at a great value or you could get a shoddily assembled tool that doesn't meet its posted specification (if it even is specified), doesn't function as advertised, and has no means of getting product support or repair. And what makes the question especially meaningless: all of this is true with a tool manufactured in any country, it's just that the probability of a given outcome correlates with location somewhat.
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Your opinion is no more then :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: here
We all know about fake ratings and ebay lotery
We all know what we get what we pay
But few man says about they positive experience yet
All experienced buyers are welcome to tread!
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Fluke China (100 series).
And earlier 1* series.
Thus far a 15B, bench DMM and Smart tweezers have served all my measurement needs.
For a $60 DMM the 15B has been rock solid. :)
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I can vouch for Miniware: Bought an TS100 and it's a pretty neat little station.
I've also grabbed some stuff from UNI-T (no electronics testing gear, though) and was quite impressed with overall quality.
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I have an SMD rework station which works very well. Different heads for different configurations are readily available for it, as well.
What type? :-//
C.M.T. ESD safe Model 8508D
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Your opinion is no more then :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: here
We all know about fake ratings and ebay lotery
We all know what we get what we pay
But few man says about they positive experience yet
All experienced buyers are welcome to tread!
What? I offer a real critique of the problem of asking the question that way and you gloss over it missing my point? I've bought plenty of stuff from China and plenty of it has been fine. I've usually not pushed it to its limits and had some parts fail long before they said they would be able to, as well as parts claiming capabilities well beyond their construction could possibly support. I'm not just trying to be philosophical, it's my experience with Chinese made (and plenty of other) equipment.
My whole point is that talking about it so broadly as you want to in this thread does not have value. A few good or bad experiences can't possibly constitute an evaluation of the manufacturing and design output of the largest nation on earth. In the same way, even linking something you thought was particularly good may not last because of the changing supply chain issues that plague cheaper end Chinese products... and even if it didn't, are you really asking for people to post individual experiences to compile some gigantic list of available good products or products to avoid? Sounds equally pointless to me because if you actually get enough replies to be useful, your list will be so long it will be really hard to value it as an easy to use resource.
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I've got very good stuff from China, I've had vaery bad stuff from China.
You get what you pay for.
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All (well close..) the 'buyer beware/choose wisely' MIC tools and electronics I've got, and bought locally, work good enough
But only after I tear them down and sort out the factory oopsies, loosies, safety slackery, chicken dropping soldering, polarity stuffups,
and all the other good stuff I and others here could fill an entire forum section with :popcorn: :popcorn:
That said, what choice is there? :-// it's either buy MIC, buy used non MIC,
or spend big on brand name gear that's MIC ??? :palm:
I find if one shops around and spends a bit more than bottom dollar and goes up a spending notch or two,
there's some decent enough MIC gear out there that compares to good Taiwan and Korean stuff from years ago
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Blueskull,
Xiaomi partnering wiha have 3 screwdriver sets now. The latest is a battery powered one (unlikely I can resist that). It is on taobao now, soon be on eBay I guess.
https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=601953542528&&spm=a21202.12579950.item.0 (https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=601953542528&&spm=a21202.12579950.item.0)
I hate to throw even the lousy screw driver away, so another a very worthy item is an induction coil heating element that can be bought less than $1$6 (taobao much cheaper) . Use that to harden your screwdriver bits.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5V-12V-Low-Voltage-ZVS-Induction-Heating-Power-Supply-Module-Heater-Coil-SZHKU/253524781186?epid=1984261015&hash=item3b07412882:g:8GwAAOSwK6RZFFzg (https://www.ebay.com/itm/5V-12V-Low-Voltage-ZVS-Induction-Heating-Power-Supply-Module-Heater-Coil-SZHKU/253524781186?epid=1984261015&hash=item3b07412882:g:8GwAAOSwK6RZFFzg)
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I have quite a bit of tools and electronics made in China from eBay (and other places) that I've purchased over the years. It seems more and more to be a race to the bottom, so lately I've found greater satisfaction with buying new old stock, used, new returns on discount, etc., with a general preference for not made in China. A recent purchase was a ~$300 Amprobe meter for $120 delivered. Brand new return and with a NIST calibration certificate. Smiles all around...
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Does anyone else have a ES121 electric screwdriver? Mine stopped going to sleep after 6 months and I don't want to buy a replacement unless I figure out that's a PEBKAC or that this is an atypical failure mode.
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I have quite a bit of tools and electronics made in China from eBay (and other places) that I've purchased over the years. It seems more and more to be a race to the bottom, so lately I've found greater satisfaction with buying new old stock, used, new returns on discount, etc., with a general preference for not made in China. A recent purchase was a ~$300 Amprobe meter for $120 delivered. Brand new return and with a NIST calibration certificate. Smiles all around...
China taobao, the highest volume is not those you mentioned - cheap and bad. There are more and more cheap and good from China, but many more are aiming for mid-price with higher quality. The selection range is plentiful, is up to the buyer. Cheapest and bad is not a waste of money for me also, I bought these when I got no idea what is considered good and what I really wanted. So I took it as a cheap lesson for me to get the actual right one next. Sometime this means justifying the pain to get a high end Japanese set (desoldering station is an example) The price difference is huge.
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The majority of consumer grade construction tools are made in China.
Makita trim router. You can buy the exact same router made in the exact same factory generic or under another brand name. But the Makita version has their own speed control. They didn't design the thing, they just found a factory in China that was already making something they want, then they contract the production and do the marketing in other regions. The accessories are exactly the same, too, just with the Makita name on them and a different color finish.
If you look at enough tools from China, you will find some that sell for 3 or 4x as much under a different badge at your local store.
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Hi
Actual tread in the end of 2019
Almost all electronics produced by china plants now
So china EEs becames most experienced EEs in the world
What tools they use? What tools use china electronic amateurs?
Finally what china tools at ebay worth the money?
What tools do they use?
I know the popular voltage reference modules from China are tested against an Agilent 34401A or Keithley 2000
Maybe at Huawei they use the same high-end equipment used in other countries...
What tools do Chinese electronics amateurs use?
I assume they use popular local equipment like CEM and Aneng... and if they can afford it, get a Fluke, Keysight, etc...
What China tools on EBay are worth the money?
Aneng? FeelElec FY6800...
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e CEM and Aneng... and if they can afford it, get a Fluke, Keysight, etc...
What China tools on EBay are worth the money?
Aneng? FeelElec FY6800...
Yea
What about "White list" of recomended china tools?
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The majority of consumer grade construction tools are made in China.
Makita trim router. You can buy the exact same router made in the exact same factory generic or under another brand name. But the Makita version has their own speed control. They didn't design the thing, they just found a factory in China that was already making something they want, then they contract the production and do the marketing in other regions. The accessories are exactly the same, too, just with the Makita name on them and a different color finish.
If you look at enough tools from China, you will find some that sell for 3 or 4x as much under a different badge at your local store.
yes :-+ I picked up on that a few years ago from a day spent killing time and tool surfing at various stores, checking out the quality and PRICE/value/bang4buck etc
and scored some bargains that work fine to this day
That said, I look after them as I would expensive quality tools and use them within their limitations
and either give them a break/cool down on hard jobs, or alternate with another same model backup tool.
At those low prices and sort of no questions return policy at some box stores, some of the cheapies are worthy of ownership,
and for casual use get it done and then some :clap:
I could care less about tradie snob brand loyalty crap :palm:
FWIW I haven't returned a cheapie yet.. lucky? :-//
FWIW #2: I have infinite disdain and disgust :rant: >:( for those scumbags that deliberately trash well priced good quality 'home use' tools to take advantage of replacement offers,
putting pressure on well meaning manufacturers, distributors and retailers, causing prices to get jacked up or bankrupting decent tool companies :(
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What about "White list" of recomended china tools?
We'll be very happy if you make one for us.
All the information is in these forums somewhere, all you have to do is compile it into a neat little post.
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All the information is in these forums somewhere, all you have to do is compile it into a neat little post.
What if all positive posts are writen by sellers? :-DD
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I've also grabbed some stuff from UNI-T (no electronics testing gear, though) and was quite impressed with overall quality.
Uni-T temperature & humidity meter is remarkably good for the tiny price.
Small current clamp UT210-E is also well worth the money IMO
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All the information is in these forums somewhere, all you have to do is compile it into a neat little post.
What if all positive posts are writen by sellers? :-DD
How do we know you're not a seller trying to decide what to stock? ::)
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All the information is in these forums somewhere, all you have to do is compile it into a neat little post.
What if all positive posts are writen by sellers? :-DD
How do we know you're not a seller trying to decide what to stock? ::)
It is good idea to identify bestsellers, isnt it? Few years ago mr Franky provides us with goodies at right prices
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e CEM and Aneng... and if they can afford it, get a Fluke, Keysight, etc...
What China tools on EBay are worth the money?
Aneng? FeelElec FY6800...
Yea
What about "White list" of recomended china tools?
I think the really cheap tools which are useful are OK. I got several ratched crimpers which do a decent job (not as good as the official crimpers but good enough). The Atten hot air station and hotplate work fine too. For more expensive equipment I like to look on the used market or buy new from an A-brand. Often the difference isn't that big (for example Chinese 6.5 digit DMM versus Keithley or Keysight).
And then there is stuff like silicon wire, heatshrink tubing, braided sleeving, cables, etc for which Ebay is a real treasure trove. In general I don't buy parts from Ebay. There is not much benefit in that versus the risk getting crap.
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Zhang Xiaoquan scissors. https://philosophyofscienceportal.blogspot.com/2013/04/oldest-manufacturing-firm-in.html (https://philosophyofscienceportal.blogspot.com/2013/04/oldest-manufacturing-firm-in.html)
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What about "White list" of recomended china tools?
We'll be very happy if you make one for us.
All the information is in these forums somewhere, all you have to do is compile it into a neat little post.
Very good thread and list idea. I agree with those who say we don't need naysayer talk - just bring on links to stuff you think are good buys. I will find and post some myself.
Subscribed.
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Zhang Xiaoquan scissors. https://philosophyofscienceportal.blogspot.com/2013/04/oldest-manufacturing-firm-in.html (https://philosophyofscienceportal.blogspot.com/2013/04/oldest-manufacturing-firm-in.html)
A typical Western news. Regardless the topic, it will find a way to introduce some anti communism contents.
It appears to be a BBC supported web page,
not aware they were still in business,
who pays any attention to 1984 styled broadcast drivel in 2019 anyway? :-//
commies and anti-commies need to party up, think green, and lose the political involvement BS they have no control over anyway :palm:
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I didn't mean to start a political debate. I thought the link put the company and their products in a good light and that was put on my post so that you could research it further if anyone wishes. I grabbed that link as it was the first one I encountered to show what the company did. For myself, I love great stories, and these guys have that in full.
Of interest and on topic, traditional way craftsmen made them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-z8F3UJMSk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-z8F3UJMSk)
Like Stubai of Austria (except Stubai are seriously overpriced and made in Austria so not added to this list). They have a great story where Austrian iron workers of Stubai village started making high quality tools that transitioned into climbing tools for British climbers who visited the Tyrolean Alps a couple hundred years back or so, and that has since transitioned into a lot of other tools.
https://www.stubai.com/en/history/ (https://www.stubai.com/en/history/)
Sorry, a bit off topic.
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Hey!
All I want is pretty electronic goodies for DIYers
Stop political debates here! :palm:
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The Uyue 946c is a pretty good hotplate and after a couple minor mods it's temperature is practically dead-on accurate.
I just ordered another one from the cheapest seller on Aliexpress, so I'll see if the second one is as good as the first soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nvtXv2WcpY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nvtXv2WcpY)
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Does anyone else have a ES121 electric screwdriver? Mine stopped going to sleep after 6 months and I don't want to buy a replacement unless I figure out that's a PEBKAC or that this is an atypical failure mode.
Are you able to update the firmware? I bought one for my nephew and he's using the heck out of it (he says). "Best tool ever" he notes:...but maybe he's stroking his uncle.
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Believe it or not, this cheapie wire cutter is actually better than my $17 AUD Klein tools wire cutter by a large margin.
https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-Electrical-Cutting-Plier-Wire-Cable-Cutter-Side-Snips-Flush-Pliers-Tool-p-1046482.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN (https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-Electrical-Cutting-Plier-Wire-Cable-Cutter-Side-Snips-Flush-Pliers-Tool-p-1046482.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN)
I've had this thing for a few years now, still works great.
Klein tools are generally pretty good quality, I'm happy with my screwdrivers and combi pliers, but that wire cutter destroys Klein's offering.
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Xiaomi/Wiha screwdriver set.
Wait, is Wiha also action quality now ?
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Believe it or not, this cheapie wire cutter is actually better than my $17 AUD Klein tools wire cutter by a large margin.
https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-Electrical-Cutting-Plier-Wire-Cable-Cutter-Side-Snips-Flush-Pliers-Tool-p-1046482.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN (https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-Electrical-Cutting-Plier-Wire-Cable-Cutter-Side-Snips-Flush-Pliers-Tool-p-1046482.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN)
Daniu is one of my go to companies on Banggood, they aren't the best, but usually I'm very satisfied with the quality I get for the price. I got some test leads from them that were nice and flexible, I ended up getting more since I liked them so much.
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Maybe the shape of your chinese wirecutter is better, maybe not the metal ?
If you buy screwdrivers from the action, they will be destroyed on the softest chinese hobbyking screws, it cant get worse then that unless you make them of butter.
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Maybe the shape of your chinese wirecutter is better, maybe not the metal ?
If you buy screwdrivers from the action, they will be destroyed on the softest chinese hobbyking screws, it cant get worse then that unless you make them of butter.
The Klein tools one has very dull blades, the Chinese one cuts so much cleaner and easier than the Klein Tools one.
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Wiha imbus still wears and my flat screwdriver the corners are bended because i take crossscrews out with it.
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Wiha imbus still wears and my flat screwdriver the corners are bended because i take crossscrews out with it.
well
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I think the intent of the list is good, but it is doomed to failure for a number of reasons. Not least of which is the bias of various contributors. But the real reason I have my doubts comes from my experience with the US importer of Chinese tools - Harbor Freight.
I bought an angle grinder for a fifth the price of the cheapest competitor here in the US. Loved it. Used it. Abused it. It kept on working for several years. But then after several days of using it with a diamond blade for concrete cutting and tile cutting (extreme abrasive dust generation in addition to heavy continuous loads) it gave up the ghost.
Went back and bought another copy. Same model number. Same price. But got it home and it wasn't nearly as good. Noisier gear box. Power switch action not as good. But I still liked it and found it to be a great value.
Was using it so much for a variety of jobs that changing blades was inconvenient, so bought another to have one for cutting wheel and one for grinding wheel. This one again was not quite as good as the second. Even with two grinders blades needed to be changed from time to time and it wasn't long until the stop used to keep the mechanism from turning while changing blades broke. The casting that holds the stop in place broke off.
So bought a replacement. I still haven't spent as much as I would have on a brand name item. But this one fails with a burnt motor armature the first time I try to do heavy work.
By this time the original model number is no longer available, so I get a similar model - whose price has gone up. Quality seems OK but features aren't quite as good as the older model. So far this one is at least performing well.
The point of this is that brand and model number don't guarantee a consistent product. Any recommendations made are valid for only a short time.
This has always been true everywhere, but in the seething growth of China it seems more true, with the time scale shorter than it has been for brands and products in the past.
A very similar story can be found on this forum in the thread on the under $10 DMM. The same DMM has been sold under a small number of model names for several years now. Originally it was a very basic, but basically acceptable DMM. But over the years the thread has document steady drops in the quality of the device, until the current version is in many ways not useful. The nanoVNA shows the same pattern as does the "Under $20 component tester".
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Someone told on this forum somewhere i dont know where :
Revisionists are the worse kind of people, worse then bankers.
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Someone told on this forum somewhere i dont know where :
Revisionists are the worse kind of people, worse then bankers.
:wtf:
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Believe it or not, this cheapie wire cutter is actually better than my $17 AUD Klein tools wire cutter by a large margin.
Those wire cutters seem to be identical to the Plato 170, which is actually cheaper on Digi-Key (https://www.digikey.com.au/en/products/detail/techspray/170/6109793) ... or they offer the slightly more expensive extra strong Plato 170S (https://www.digikey.com.au/en/products/detail/techspray/170S/8593021).
Plato is a brand of Techspray (https://www.techspray.com/about-techspray), a Georgia, USA based limited partnership (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_partnership).
It's not clear what relationship the Plato cutters and the Daniu cutters have. Quite likely Plato has a non-exclusive contract with a Chinese manufacturer. But it shows how interconnected the global supply chain is, and how much of it passes through China.
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A very similar story can be found on this forum in the thread on the under $10 DMM. The same DMM has been sold under a small number of model names for several years now. Originally it was a very basic, but basically acceptable DMM. But over the years the thread has document steady drops in the quality of the device, until the current version is in many ways not useful. The nanoVNA shows the same pattern as does the "Under $20 component tester".
Is this the one you are referring to?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/harbor-freight-cen-tech-90899-small-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/harbor-freight-cen-tech-90899-small-teardown/)
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Those wire cutters seem to be identical to the Plato 170, which is actually cheaper on Digi-Key (https://www.digikey.com.au/en/products/detail/techspray/170/6109793) ... or they offer the slightly more expensive extra strong Plato 170S (https://www.digikey.com.au/en/products/detail/techspray/170S/8593021).
I do not know if these are a clone of the plato or the same thing, but I have these (the dark bleu "plato 170" type) and also very satisfied by them. And for 2.5€ including shipping you can also by a couple to "abuse" >:D
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32858965448.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dUvO44c (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32858965448.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dUvO44c)
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After 50 years buying, selling,installing and repairing high-end systems… and watching the rise and fall of the chinese electronics manufacturing industry, I’d say that about 30% of chinese designed and manufactured products are at or above average quality and safety… often a direct copy of other products.
In real terms, a large part of the better products they make are designed and quality specified by overseas manufacturers… china provides a competent factory.
About 10-20% of other country products are built down to a price - and if you go there, at least it’s probably safe because of the origin country electrical or consumer warranty laws.
The remaining top-end products are generally pretty good, but you pay for that consistency, reliability and warranty / life.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igRXzidnI4M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igRXzidnI4M)
To me that is exactly why aliexpress is full of different seller selling the exact same shit!
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I buy a lot of stuff from China, but EE related this was my best buy so far: Vichy VC8145