EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: MathWizard on August 21, 2021, 01:18:11 am
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I sadly don't get much lightning here, but my power was flashing a few times tonight, and tripped my PC and scope a few times. I unplugged them for a while, during the worst of it, the storm is gone away now, but the grid is still flickering.
So I'm just wondering who, unplugs what these days ? Most of my light bulbs have a SMPS, with some decent MOV and input filters I hope, but who knows.
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Their brains :)
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Here in Florida, I pretty much try to only have things plugged in when I'm actively using them. Lost an ethernet port on a higher end Dell Precision laptop few years ago and have been paranoid ever since. Really should get around to fixing that someday, but the wifi still works. Cloud to ground lightning strikes are very common here. I think the only thing I leave plugged in all the time is my coffee pot just because it's cheap and I will fail at life if I forget to reprogram it.
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Lots of lightening where I’m at. I typically get a few strikes around the house per year. I finally put a whole house suppressor on the meter box and then separate units on key equipment like the HVAC. I also use high-end surge protectors on all my computers & test equipment.
Thought I was pretty safe until the last strike. It got into my Ethernet cabling taking out 3 routers, 3 computers and 1 piece of test equipment. It also took out my GPSDO with outdoor antenna. The active antenna has lightening protection built-in which I though would protect the GPSDO but no. It’s has about 80’ coax between the two so I now have protection at both ends.
I’m figuring the stretch of Ethernet cable between the house & my workshop was the culprit. In most cases only the LAN port was destroyed. Netgear replaced all of my routers under their lifetime warranty. I was able to continue using two of the effected computers (actually CNC controllers) with a USB to LAN port adapter. The third computer was trashed.
The 1 piece of test equipment that got hit (SDG6022X) was fixed under warranty – needed a new LAN PCB. It’s funny that that this piece of equipment was plugged into a 16-port router that also got fried, but 10 other test equipment units plugged into it were unaffected. So I’m guessing the SDG6022X was the weakest link & sacrificed itself.
Anyway, I now have Ethernet surge protectors on all my routers. Also, I had 1 Insteon light switch get zapped in the workshop. I’m figuring I need to install a suppressor on it’s sub-panel because of the distance to the house.
Yeah, in my case it’s too much stuff to unplug given the number of thunder storms we have. So I’m very dependent on surge protectors & they do work. Of course there’s not much you can do for a direct hit except kiss your stuff good bye!
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I unplug all my electronics: tv, stereo, electronic test equipment, etc.
In the past, I have also unplugged appliances: frig, microwave, etc.
I also try to keep the well pump and heat pumps from running.
Sounds kind of anal to do... But, let me tell you some tales from when I was little:
- My cousins in on the farm had an old rotatory desk phone on a small table in the living room. There was a lightning storm and I saw the handset jump up off the phone and fall onto the floor.
- My grandfather use to make fun of us for hunkering down and unplugging things during a storm. Until one day when he was visiting during a storm and the tv lit up. (The tv was unplugged and the antenna disconnected.) No more jokes from him after that.
- During another storm, I was in the bathroom where we had a medicine cabinet with a mirror and a florescent light bulb down each side and a switch and plug at the bottom. A lightning strike sent a 5 ft spark past my shoulder and across the room. Near miss. :phew:
- My mother had a strike that hit the house a few years ago. It went down one side of the house taking out switches, lights and plugs. The other side of the house was untouched. It also went under the driveway and took out three overhead door operators in the garage. In one of the bedrooms there was a receptacle that looked perfectly fine when looking straight on. However from the side, it was sticking out a 1/2" from the wall and only the metal parts were left. The plastic back was all vaporized.
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My opinions on this:
If your house is susceptible to being struck by lightning directly, then you need lightning rods at least. I used to live in a house near the top of a ridge and we had them on all the roof peaks.
Whole-house suppressors & arrestors are are good for when lightning strikes the power lines but don't help much if the house is struck directly because it travels inside your house wiring.
For data, comm. and etc. you will need to address those individually as well. Some UPSs have a pass-through RJ-45 jack to help protect the computer. Building to building and inside to outside the go-to solution is to use fiber (use media converters to make the air gap if necessary).
For intermittent power quality issues of course get a UPS. At the workbench I suggest a pure sine wave UPS. Pure sine wave is more mainstream these days so the prices are reasonable and the output is far better for sensitive equipment.
Sometimes during winter storms I've gone days without power, so I installed this last year:
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I unplug nothing.
I have full multi level surge protection installed in my home confirming to the latest standards and recommendations.
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I got hit perhaps 10 years ago, taking out a Cisco ADSL router, the TV, a Cisco switch, and a Logitech Squeezebox. The modem chip in the router was literally blown to pieces, that were rattling around inside the case.
Cause was a nearby lightning strike that created potential between mains and phone line, which is why the ADSL router got hit worst.
Since then, I've
- Installed MOV protection on the in-coming three-phase.
- Repaired the TV (New motherboard)
- Installed lots of potential equalisation between various equipment locations
- Disconnected the phone line in favour of a fibre connection, both for phone and Internet.
- Replaced the copper Ethernet cable to my garage/workshop with a 12-fibre cable.
- As long as I had a phone line, I also had suppressors on the incoming LSA-Plus Type 237 Module
On-going projects are:
- More fibre cable between islands of copper Ethernet
- Better grounding of antenna farm
- Better intake plate for antennas
- I'm considering another level of mains overvoltage protection
I usually limit myself to disconnecting my ham antennas when lightning is around. Then I watch Blitzortung religiously..
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Is it simply a matter of being exposed to lots of lightning strikes, maybe if you live in rural areas? Here in central Europe I think I've never had an equipment failure due to lighting strike, less heard of someone who had. Was I just lucky?
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Is it simply a matter of being exposed to lots of lightning strikes, maybe if you live in rural areas? Here in central Europe I think I've never had an equipment failure due to lighting strike, less heard of someone who had. Was I just lucky?
Probably. A "very good" way to get hit is to have overhead power lines after the power company transformer, which is not something i can recall seeing much of in Schweiz.
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Is it simply a matter of being exposed to lots of lightning strikes, maybe if you live in rural areas? Here in central Europe I think I've never had an equipment failure due to lighting strike, less heard of someone who had. Was I just lucky?
It can depend a lot on the area where you reside and also the soil conditions.
Early in my career I worked for a telephone company that included a small mountain village in its service area. This area was notorious for the number of lightning strikes it suffered but the effect of these strikes was worsened by the low conductivity soils in the area. When a lightning strike hit the ground in this area it usually coupled directly into the underground power and telephone cables as these represented a much lower resistance path than the surrounding soils. As a consequence the telephone cables suffered extensive damage and had to be frequently repaired.
One particularly bad strike near the main incoming telephone cable was conducted all the way through to the exchange building. All that was left of the exchange equipment was a black scorch mark on the wall where it was formerly mounted.
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Is it simply a matter of being exposed to lots of lightning strikes, maybe if you live in rural areas? Here in central Europe I think I've never had an equipment failure due to lighting strike, less heard of someone who had. Was I just lucky?
Probably.
During my live I have had a couple of broken equipment due to lightning. Both in a rural town in the Netherlands as here in a rural town in France. Even though I use UPS'es with surge protection I disconnect everything except the fridge and refrigerator (no electronics in those, just old fashioned thermostats) the moment a thunderstorm comes close.
Evaporating ic's is no stranger to me, but also failure after a while. You think wow my equipment survived this one, and then months later it starts to fail :palm:
So always very cautious when lightning is around.
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Here in Florida, I pretty much try to only have things plugged in when I'm actively using them. Lost an ethernet port on a higher end Dell Precision laptop few years ago and have been paranoid ever since. Really should get around to fixing that someday, but the wifi still works. Cloud to ground lightning strikes are very common here. I think the only thing I leave plugged in all the time is my coffee pot just because it's cheap and I will fail at life if I forget to reprogram it.
Also live in Florida, Tampa Bay area (some consider as lightning capitol), our Stanley Cup Champion Pro Hockey team is the "Lightning"!
We've also lost some electronics, and agree the safest is unplug sensitive electronics. Also known a couple folks that have been "hit" indirectly by lightning, one was killed.
Best,
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Here in Florida, I pretty much try to only have things plugged in when I'm actively using them. Lost an ethernet port on a higher end Dell Precision laptop few years ago and have been paranoid ever since. Really should get around to fixing that someday, but the wifi still works. Cloud to ground lightning strikes are very common here. I think the only thing I leave plugged in all the time is my coffee pot just because it's cheap and I will fail at life if I forget to reprogram it.
Also live in Florida, Tampa Bay area (some consider as lightning capitol), our Stanley Cup Champion Pro Hockey team is the "Lightning"!
We've also lost some electronics, and agree the safest is unplug sensitive electronics. Also known a couple folks that have been "hit" indirectly by lightning, one was killed.
Best,
How widespread is full surge protection there (SPD T1 + T2 +T3, correctly coordinated and dimensioned to local supply situations)? In my experience this eliminates pretty much anything that comes in via the distribution system and even provides some protection to direct hits, depending on the power of the individual situation (not personal experiences, but presented results in a seminar)
We had to replace SPDs on testing sites at schwäbische Alb a couple of times without the local equipment being harmed by the events that triggered them.
Just "unplugging" the industrial appliances is obviously not an option, so proper surge protection is a strict requirement there.
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The value of unplugging depends a lot on where you live. If your power feed is entirely buried its probably a waste of time. If there are overhead cables you may well avoid damage. Things like MOVs will protect against minor surges, but a strike on a cable, even far away, is a whole other level of hit. Overhead telephone wiring makes unplugging a modem a good idea. I've seen a few fail during thunderstorms, without any obvious local strike. Just a bright flash from some way off, and the modem dies.
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How widespread is full surge protection there (SPD T1 + T2 +T3, correctly coordinated and dimensioned to local supply situations)? In my experience this eliminates pretty much anything that comes in via the distribution system and even provides some protection to direct hits, depending on the power of the individual situation (not personal experiences, but presented results in a seminar)
We had to replace SPDs on testing sites at schwäbische Alb a couple of times without the local equipment being harmed by the events that triggered them.
Just "unplugging" the industrial appliances is obviously not an option, so proper surge protection is a strict requirement there.
Don't know about our power company distribution protection system. Our cable service is fiber optic, so better than coaxial cable to the house. However at the house junction then this is wired and uses the house AC mains.
When I mentioned unplug, this includes the AC main power to the equipment (remove the 3 prong plug from the wall).
Best,
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I don't typically unplug, and haven't had any known issues in spite of living in fairly high lightning zones much of my life. But I recognize that it would help sometimes. The problem is that lightning is such a high energy event that nothing will protect you from a close enough strike. Surge protection and the like helps in the zone between "you are toast" and "you are fine". In most of the world the latter zone is far larger than that protected zone, which is in turn a fair amount larger than the "you are toast" zone. So the odds are with you.
Some anecdotes including those above illustrate the problem. If the unplugged TV lights up there is real chance of damage. You are clearly in the "you are toast" zone.
I have been less than 100 meters from the strike point of three different lightning strikes. In one I was stopped at an intersection when the lightning bolt hit a power pole on the corner. Secondary arcs to multiple points within a dozen meters. I was really glad I was in the partial Faraday shield of the car with its rubber insulators. This strike had no effect on my vehicle, but I have no idea how others and the buildings around the intersection faired. In another case the lightning struck the ground about 100 meters from my home. I knew it was close because the flash and bang were as close to simultaneous as I could detect by ear. I found the charred strike point near my mailbox, and followed the glass tubes formed from the vitrified sandy soil for several meters in a couple of directions. I found no damage to my electronics from that strike. The third occasion involved a strike about 50 meters away in the backyard of a neighbors house. This was prior to transistorized equipment, making damage less likely, and indeed there was none to my knowledge.
So in my opinion it is a low risk to leave things plugged in. But as the reports here show, the risk isn't zero, and given the high value of our electronic setups it might be worth it. Maps are available of the historical frequency of lightning strikes, I've attached one showing density in strikes per square kilometer per year. If my experience is any guide the "you are toast" zone less than 100 meters on a side or 0.01 sq km. Which would indication that in most of the developed world your odds are pretty low of being zapped.
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Lightning is rare here. I unplug my radio gear from the outdoor antenna but don't usually bother to unplug anything else, I've never had anything damaged by a storm. In parts of the country that see a lot of lightning it's a serious problem though and no surge protector will stop a direct strike. I've seen pictures of all sorts of damaged stuff, traces blown off PCBs and parts vaporized. When I was a kid my uncle was a traffic signal electrician and he had to go fix one of the control cabinets downtown. A nearby lightning strike blew up the surge protector and tripped all the breakers in the cabinet. He reset them and there was a shower of sparks from a power supply and it turned out the incoming power wire had been blown off the switch and was touching the grounded chassis.
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I am in Missouri and we get some big thunderstorms. I have lost radio gear, CFL and LED bulbs, and electronically commutated motors to lightning. All of my test equipment and computers and chargers and such have online UPSes.
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The value of unplugging depends a lot on where you live. If your power feed is entirely buried its probably a waste of time.
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We have buried service lines and I thought that too.
A couple of years ago we had lightning hit a large tree in our front yard. It blew a strip of bark off the tree from the top all the way to the base, traveled horizontally for about 10 feet where it scorched the ground, and then dove into the ground where it hit our buried 240V service line.
We lost a bunch of minor appliances, a TV, a DVR, a couple of computers, two Ethernet hubs, some test equipment, and oddly, about a half dozen GFCI outlets. I was able to fix most of the damage, but replacement cost would have been around $6k total. I think we were lucky.
We now have surge protection on all conductors coming into the house. Don't know if it will stop another direct strike, but hopefully its better than nothing. We've had trees get hit two other times on our property. Maybe we're just in a bad place.
I do unplug expensive test gear now.
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I live in an apartment and the breaker panel is in the living room. Both my benches are on one breaker and if there's a severe storm I trip the breaker. It also shuts down the internet router but obviously I would have to disconnect the incoming line but typically I don't. If there's a direct strike the arc would probably jump across the breaker but at least in case of nearby strikes and surges there is protection. I also unplug the window A/C.
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With a direct strike or even a very nearby strike all bets are off. It can induce huge currents in wiring and other metal objects and behave in unpredictable ways. There's just such a huge amount of energy involved that all you can really do is disconnect everything you can, and make sure there is a good solid path to earth that doesn't pas through any of your equipment.
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Rooftop solar panels and associated inverter would have to be a vulnerable and expensive target.
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With a direct strike or even a very nearby strike all bets are off.
Indeed, but you can prepare. I spent Summer 2017 in Berlin which was exceptionally (or so I thought then, remembering Berlin of the 90s) wet. I stayed in an apartment with clear view to the Fernsehturm (t.v. broadcasting tower in middle of formerly east Berlin) and watched how multiple strikes went into it during a thunderstorm (the operators count hundreds of strikes a year).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKl4vgEpcXI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKl4vgEpcXI)
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I had a thundercrack blow out my cable modem a couple of weeks ago. It was very weird.
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I live in the very centre of a West-German city of about a million, in a flat, surrounded by a bunch of much higher buildigs.
25 years ago, we had a hit in the close vicinity which toasted my Amiga 3000 computer (worth a few thousand in those days) and some assorted radio equipment. Luckily, all of that was insured.
A few weeks ago, we had another hit very close (too near for any discernible delay between flash and bang). At the same time, there was an audible 'Zapp!' in the corner below my desk, where the Fritzbox and all the comms and network equipment live. The victims: a temp sensor in the back yard, the Raspberry Pi it was connected to and the connected WIFI router. All of that on the backyard side of the building. The 'Zapp!' here in front must have been a spark gap or just a discharge from a wire to ground. Pheeewww...
Other tenants in the building reported various fried modems, routers and other small stuff.
I'll be 67 in a few weeks and I've decided I'm not overly concerned about the next hit in another 25 years. ;)
Ralf
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I'm probably overly paranoid, but I do unplug the car if there is lightning around
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Assuming you mean an EV charging cable I wouldn't say that's paranoid at all. Given the cost of a car and the fire risk of a lithium battery I'd say unplugging it from the charger during a lightning storm is probably a wise decision.
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Here in Florida, I pretty much try to only have things plugged in when I'm actively using them. Lost an ethernet port on a higher end Dell Precision laptop few years ago and have been paranoid ever since. Really should get around to fixing that someday, but the wifi still works. Cloud to ground lightning strikes are very common here. I think the only thing I leave plugged in all the time is my coffee pot just because it's cheap and I will fail at life if I forget to reprogram it.
Also live in Florida, Tampa Bay area (some consider as lightning capitol), our Stanley Cup Champion Pro Hockey team is the "Lightning"!
We've also lost some electronics, and agree the safest is unplug sensitive electronics. Also known a couple folks that have been "hit" indirectly by lightning, one was killed.
Best,
I'm another Floridian. All my test equipment are on power strips, and I usually turn off the strips when I'm not using the equipment. When lightning starts and I'm not sure if the strips are off I go and make sure they are. I've got lots of older gear that I want to keep working. The questions makes me wonder how much voltage it takes to arc across the off switch of the strip. Had a friend in the 80's that had foil wallpaper in the kitchen (rented house). Lightning hit the phone line and the wallpaper in his kitchen blew out.
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Somewhat ironically, forum member joeqsmith posted this video a few years back after a nearby lightning strike took out some of his gear. As a viewer i found myself fortunate to be able to watch his knowledgeable analysis and repair of some of the damaged equipment.
https://youtu.be/40TaqXOIrHo
A cousin of mine that lives in the Atlanta area had a direct strike recently that took out all of their (consumer) electronics and unfortunately did a great deal of damage to their home's wiring. They are currently dealing with insurance and looking at lot's of work to get their home liveable again.
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I'm another Floridian. All my test equipment are on power strips, and I usually turn off the strips when I'm not using the equipment. When lightning starts and I'm not sure if the strips are off I go and make sure they are. I've got lots of older gear that I want to keep working. The questions makes me wonder how much voltage it takes to arc across the off switch of the strip. Had a friend in the 80's that had foil wallpaper in the kitchen (rented house). Lightning hit the phone line and the wallpaper in his kitchen blew out.
A direct lightning strike will probably blow though the switch in a power strip like it isn't even there. Typically the contacts are going to have maybe 3-5mm of separation so you can look up the breakdown voltage of that distance through air. If I were in an area that had frequent lightning I would unplug it completely.
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You are all just arguing about the size of the "you are toast' zone. Unplugging vs turning off. That lightning bolt jumped an air gap somewhere between a few hundred meters to a couple of kilometers getting to the ground. It dissipates over a region that is more than a few meters, and may be guided by power lines for dozens or hundreds of meters. It is impossible to quantify the odds and nearly as hard to quantify the damage costs. The only thing you can do is make yourself feel a bit better about the situation. Each individual will have a different trade between the nuisances of a bit of extra protection and the comfort of feeling safe. No one here has mentioned putting their lab in a heavy duty Faraday box with large scale interuptors on all penetrations.
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I was involved with the design and manufacture of surge protectors for a long time. I learned a lot. First the wiring in US outlets can arc over at around 750V and the peak current will be 3KA or less inside the building if the surge comes in the power line. However it can arc over a power switch or breaker. A company in the US was offering a product that would detect lighning (AMS has a nice chip for that) and upen a solenoit switch with a 2"/50 MM opening to ensure no arc. Second a surge protector that doesn't encompass all the incoming connections will make everything worse. The power, network cable (if TV), phone line all need to be protected together. Even if the lightning doesn't hit your house or the pole outside the 100KA can induce a lot of current in any nearby wiring. Third the damage to your equipment may not be the lightning but associated voltage surges as grounds and power connection get blown open in the power distribution system.
Most recent and current electronics have internal surge protection and are pretty good if the surge comes through the power. However I have seen the internals of electronics charred between the network/coax/phone connection and the power ground enough to always advocate for a full suppressor close to the equipment. There is no downside to having lots of surge suppressors all over the house/building. Just be sure to connect the network cables through them.
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Most recent and current electronics have internal surge protection and are pretty good if the surge comes through the power. However I have seen the internals of electronics charred between the network/coax/phone connection and the power ground enough to always advocate for a full suppressor close to the equipment. There is no downside to having lots of surge suppressors all over the house/building. Just be sure to connect the network cables through them.
There is a downside, if not a major one. Most surge protectors are based on MOVs, and MOVs can fail such that they conduct enough to heat up but not enough to blow the fuse. I've seen surge protectors melt down more than once, and I've seen pictures of some that have caught fire. At a former job we had a loose neutral at the transformer in the parking lot at one point that resulted in an imbalance that caused the MOVs in a UPS to catch fire, it was caught and doused pretty quick but it still burned a hole in the carpet. More surge protectors means more potential ignition sources.
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Most recent and current electronics have internal surge protection and are pretty good if the surge comes through the power. However I have seen the internals of electronics charred between the network/coax/phone connection and the power ground enough to always advocate for a full suppressor close to the equipment. There is no downside to having lots of surge suppressors all over the house/building. Just be sure to connect the network cables through them.
There is a downside, if not a major one. Most surge protectors are based on MOVs, and MOVs can fail such that they conduct enough to heat up but not enough to blow the fuse. I've seen surge protectors melt down more than once, and I've seen pictures of some that have caught fire. At a former job we had a loose neutral at the transformer in the parking lot at one point that resulted in an imbalance that caused the MOVs in a UPS to catch fire, it was caught and doused pretty quick but it still burned a hole in the carpet. More surge protectors means more potential ignition sources.
That's why all good equipment standards (should?) require thermal fusing.. I haven't seen a MOV without one in anything made recently.
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Apopka, Florida here.... (near Orlando)
I don't unplug anything during storms. My house has a whole house surge protector at service entrance, lots more ground rods than code calls for, another surge protector at breaker panel, then few large rack mount UPS that feed my whole thing. I had no equipment loss in last 30 years.
I once lived in an apartment. Had a full size CB whip on balcony. Much lower than roof level. Apparently, I got an indirect hit. The antenna's tip was melted. Thick aluminum angle mount at bottom had major chunk blown away. Lost TV, stereo, modem, and few other things. Funny thing was, VCR lived.
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Current UL approved surge protectors have thermal cutouts that are tested by UL to confirm they will disconnect the MOV's when the voltage misbehaves. That problem is the main cause of MOV failure not lightning surges. In normal use they don't degrade. If across a big motor's brushes it might be a different story.
However products do not need UL to sell in the US except in a few places. And its not unknown for fake approved products to land in the market.
Open neutrals is more common than anyone would think. Often in modular offices. It can be insidious since many products will still work and sort of balance the 220 to have around 110 on each leg. You don't know until some of the loads are off that its a problem.
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I do disconnect my gear during storm.
1. I own a lot of unique instruments and i want to save them. They are divided into two groups connected to two separate UPS devices.
If someone only has a only TV and a fridge he may not be as concerned as i am.
2. In my first job as a UPS service man, we were receiving a lot of devices after severe storms. Mostly replacing MOVs but occasionally worse 'deep' damage.
3. It is strongly dependent if you live in a village at the end of a grid or you live in a densely populated city area.
Presumably the energy of a lightning gets divided into more nodes in the second case so chances that your surge arresters will do their job increase.
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Open neutrals is more common than anyone would think. Often in modular offices. It can be insidious since many products will still work and sort of balance the 220 to have around 110 on each leg. You don't know until some of the loads are off that its a problem.
Oh. Another. Say after me:
In single phase AC, there is no practical difference between phase and neutral in safety terms.
Always assume both are live and you too, shall live.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Steckdose.jpg)
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There is a nice article in this 1984 issue Wireless World, which covers an investigation of a direct lightning strike on a church.
https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wireless-World/80s/Wireless-World-1984-10.pdf (https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wireless-World/80s/Wireless-World-1984-10.pdf)
Some nice observations on what happens at the bends in the copper strap from the lightning conductor, the distance it jumped to the internal mains wiring in the tower. The standing wave effect that cause the mains wiring to 'disappear' at certain intervals, and the strike current, based on the earth stake resistance!
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Why nobody already mentioned the SPD 1,2 and 3?
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Lighting can hit you from somewhere else.
If there is storm around your town, you better unplug.
If i hear thunder eveybody laughs at me that nothing will happen.
People act like everything is replacable if something happens.
Yes you can download a digital equalivent for everything on your phone, i know.
My opinions on this:
If your house is susceptible to being struck by lightning directly, then you need lightning rods at least. I used to live in a house near the top of a ridge and we had them on all the roof peaks.
It can hit somewhere else and go thru the power line to your house.
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[..]
My opinions on this:
If your house is susceptible to being struck by lightning directly, then you need lightning rods at least. I used to live in a house near the top of a ridge and we had them on all the roof peaks.
It can hit somewhere else and go thru the power line to your house.
Different means for different risks. The surge protectors are meant to prevent the attached appliances from being destroyed, the lightening rods are meant to protect the house from burning down.
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For even better protection, you'll need to protect from near by hit traveling via ground, too.
I was given a design diagram for lightening protection system at work. (2 floor concrete large building). Lightening rods at certain interval, ground wires completely surrounding the building in ground, ground rods every few feet, bus bars and connection to main electrical panel.... It's not something someone can casually do.
Also, grounding on regular housing is extremely poor. At most places, builders can install 2 grounding rods and call it done. Also, ground wire in house hold wiring is very neglected. I've seen someone just stuck in ground wire into a screw hole (without screw). Ground connections with just twisted wires are common, too. (without wire nuts).
Surviving direct hit without damage is possible. Empire state building in US get hit over 100 times a year, according to something I read. Cellular base antenna towers get hit on regular basis. Of course, they don't unplug anything.
I have an ongoing plan to add a room to my house for lab use. This thread made me think about all this. Thanks to OP for bring it up.
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To install a ground rod for the masts attached to my chimney, I attached a water hose to a 10 foot length of 1/2 inch copper water pipe to hydraulically drill it into the ground. The original ground rod at the line power hookup is pretty wimpy in comparison.
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Some very good information in this discussion. The worst lightning I ever saw was around New York City. I guess the tall buildings with lightning rods on top may provide a lot of protection. I grew up on the prairies, lightning was very bad there I guess due to the flatness. Scary stuff when it is that close. Remember when your telephone was on a land line? Where it entered the building the first thing it was connected to was a lightning arrestor. However the worst electricity disaster I ever experienced wasn’t from lightning. The power company was replacing a power transformer in our neighborhood and hooked it up backwards! Needless to say the step-down transformer worked equally well as a step-upper. When they switched the power on it blew every electrical device in the neighborhood. Appliances which were on like the microwave just exploded. It was fortunate that nobody was killed or injured and no houses caught fire. They did reimburse affected customers but I can’t remember how long it took or how much they paid. I don’t think the percentage was very high. I have whole house protection as well as units protecting TVs, computers etc. But a agree nothing can provide 100% against Mother Nature.
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I'm surprised so many people unplug, but I wonder if just the grids that I've been on have been made to be somewhat better at dissipating surges or mitigating risk. In all my years I've never seen a piece of consumer or industrial gear on a home power connection get cooked by a lightning strike (though I've seen lightning take out a transformer on a pole across the intersection and we get heavy lightning with power loss yearly).
My stuff is on surge protectors, but I've never once unplugged it for a storm. Computers and consumer stuff included. I have really only lived on municipal power networks that seem to be maintained reasonably, but even at my current location with above ground lines and now three notable outages in the past year from storms... no tripped breakers, GFCIs, surge protectors and no damaged equipment. I assume a direct hit to the house would definitely be bad, but I at least haven't seen hits to nearby poles or substations to have any impact on the home power connection aside from knocking it out for a while.
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Remember when your telephone was on a land line? Where it entered the building the first thing it was connected to was a lightning arrestor.
I remember the days when there was a note in the phone book advising people not to make phone calls during a thunderstorm. And no, that wasn't before WW2.
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This reminds of another reason to get a laptop, or a backup battery for my PC. It gets really boring in my house if I don't have the computer going. Especially if it's payday or the weekend when I lose the power or want to unplug for a storm.
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I rather watch the lighting then a computer screen, rarity.
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i have both, huge surge protector for my house and each every device conneted via smart plugs, so when necessary i shut them all down. The surge protector didn't helped 2 times in last 6yrs, so i lost some of these smart plugs (they exploded, but the gears connected to them survived). So honestly, 40EUR per each is still cheaper than new gears. A self-buil lightning detector, conected to the smart home system, is being used to turn off everything (except the smart home controller).
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Surge protector only protects agains surges from the power net.
*maybe try a russian build one ?
No just kidding, whats the maximum joules it can block ?
Ligting has many more joules then the best version out there.
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People have done a lot of measurements of lightning (needs patience) and there are standards https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/surge-protective-categories-defined-by-ansi-ieee-c62-41
Outside and at the panel you can have a lot of energy. Once inside the building the resistance and inductance of the wiring limits the energy, if you call 6KV and 3KA limited. A typical 3/4" MOV can handle that surge. An array of several can handle multiple strikes with no deterioration. However all the wiring MUST pass through THE surge protector or all bets are off. 100 feet of 12 AWG is around .15 Ohm. 3000A across .15 Ohm is 450V. That's the kind of differential voltage you can see even with a really good surge protector if something is grounded separately.
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I unplug nothing.
I have full multi level surge protection installed in my home confirming to the latest standards and recommendations.
Hmmm, lightning jumps 1000's of feet from the clouds in the sky, through the air, and hits your house. And you think your surge protector will save you. haha.
I live in Clearwater Florida and believe me, when the sky's terrible swift sword wants your TV, it will have your TV. My house was hit by lightning. There's a scar where the energy blew from the rebar embedded in the concrete walls out to the wet concrete driveway.
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I unplug nothing.
I have full multi level surge protection installed in my home confirming to the latest standards and recommendations.
Hmmm, lightning jumps 1000's of feet from the clouds in the sky, through the air, and hits your house. And you think your surge protector will save you. haha.
Thankfully, science trumps ridicule..
These surge protectors aren't intended for the extraordinarily rare direct hit, anyway.
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we had surge protection installed in our company some time ago. the result was that on more than one occasion we had to replace parts of the surge protection equipment in addition to the broken equipment…
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I unplug nothing.
I have full multi level surge protection installed in my home confirming to the latest standards and recommendations.
Hmmm, lightning jumps 1000's of feet from the clouds in the sky, through the air, and hits your house. And you think your surge protector will save you. haha.
I live in Clearwater Florida and believe me, when the sky's terrible swift sword wants your TV, it will have your TV. My house was hit by lightning. There's a scar where the energy blew from the rebar embedded in the concrete walls out to the wet concrete driveway.
I'm in Florida and back when we used modems (remember those days?) it seems they blew out at least every other year due to thunderstorms. I finally bought two so I'd have a spare.
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I unplug nothing.
I have full multi level surge protection installed in my home confirming to the latest standards and recommendations.
Hmmm, lightning jumps 1000's of feet from the clouds in the sky, through the air, and hits your house. And you think your surge protector will save you. haha.
I live in Clearwater Florida and believe me, when the sky's terrible swift sword wants your TV, it will have your TV. My house was hit by lightning. There's a scar where the energy blew from the rebar embedded in the concrete walls out to the wet concrete driveway.
I'm in Florida and back when we used modems (remember those days?) it seems they blew out at least every other year due to thunderstorms. I finally bought two so I'd have a spare.
Had this problem at my parent's house in MI, most lightning damage was through the phone system. Once it blew the DSL router/modem bad enough it opened the case a bit, completely killed the connected PC, and blew the network card on another farther away. Eventually complaining at the phone company got a competent lineman to show up who actually drove a ground rod at the telephone service box and rebuilt the box with fresh surge protection stuff, no more problems. Somewhere I have the DSL filter/splitter box from the last time it happened, some traces were totally removed from the board.
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Me? I connect all my multimeters to the mains so I can find out which ones have genuine CAT ratings. :-+
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It's extremely rare that I unplug anything due to lightning or extreme weather.
I'd be more worried about the 11kV lines touching the 240V lines nearby and backfeeding than I am of direct lightning strikes.
One time it was really bad, lots of heavy rain, high wind and lightning overhead. I unplugged my PC, the server, the 4k projector and the feed to my work bench that powers all the test equipment. That covered the 95% of the expensive stuff. But I have insurance and backups, so its not such a big deal. Though better to avoid having to argue with the insurance agent about why my scope is a personal expensive and not a business one. (I actually talked to them over the phone about this ages ago and recorded it just in case)
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Hmm, a knife switch solves these problems to a degree. a long one on a dielectric lever.
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The TV, Apple TV and sound bar are on a single plug. I pull that whenever there is a thunderstorm warning. (I disconnected the antenna ages ago. It is still wired which is a concern.)
My TE is unplugged unless I'm using it.
I switch off this computer at the power supply when it is not in use. The power switch on the back is double poll.
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Many years ago I lived on a ridge about 2000 feet, on about 6 acres, we lost a telephone about every 2yrs, fortunately we had to rent one from the tel-co😁. In those days colour tv, vcr and HiFi were expensive - so got unplugged when not in use in the lighting 'season'. Had suppressors on the electricity and telephone - they would last about a year. Fortunately no PCs and internet in those days. Tree about 30 feet away got hit - loud, bright and the pre-strike quite eerie. Happy to not have that experience again. House had lighting rods and earth mat, problem was on the top of a rainy ridge, soil conductivity isn't great. I don't think anything will save a direct hit but a bit of sensible protection can save the nearby strikes.
Where I live now - for 25yrs - don't bother - I occasionally disconnect and earth the antennas, but usually they are switched to a dummy load.
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I'd be more worried about the 11kV lines touching the 240V lines nearby and backfeeding than I am of direct lightning strikes.
Something like that happened to my friend's house when we were teenagers. A high tension transmission line fell on a 7200V line and caused the voltage to go up. All the lights got really bright and most of the bulbs that were on burned out and it fried some electronics.
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Broadband. Overhead phone lines and over past 15 years, have had 2 routers die in storms, while Sky replaced them for free, still took a week+ to get the replacement
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I unplug nothing.
I have full multi level surge protection installed in my home confirming to the latest standards and recommendations.
Hmmm, lightning jumps 1000's of feet from the clouds in the sky, through the air, and hits your house. And you think your surge protector will save you. haha.
I live in Clearwater Florida and believe me, when the sky's terrible swift sword wants your TV, it will have your TV. My house was hit by lightning. There's a scar where the energy blew from the rebar embedded in the concrete walls out to the wet concrete driveway.
My local hospital had a direct hit a few years. A friend lives around 400 yards away and the same hospital strike killed his TV
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I added a Square D surge suppressor to my breaker box for whole home protection and I have APC power bars with surge protection for my critical electronic devices. We have moderate lightening activity in my area, and the possibility of ice storms in winter.
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I once was hiking through the mountains, and early in the afternoon the weather started changing so I found a horizontal spot, took my tent out of my rucksack and put it up.
Then I doubled up my thermarest sleeping mat and sat on it.
Lots of thunderbolts and lightning. One of the thunderbolts was so close by that it's pressure wave partly pushed my tent aside. That was quite an impressive experience.