Author Topic: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?  (Read 14225 times)

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Offline Symax

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What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« on: November 05, 2021, 03:34:27 pm »
I know that "best" is relative and needs to be narrowed down quite a bit.  I'm a newbie and I know that.  I have no real idea what to look for in a scope.  If there is some sort of if/then flowchart or program that can help guide me to what features to look for in a scope that would be great.  I also know that budget for a scope is a key factor in recommendations.  My budget is $30,000.  I want a VERY feature rich scope, and I figure with that kind of budget, I can accomplish that.  I also am aware that going with a 4 channel scope is best.  I have been reviewing the other threads on this topic, but most of the scopes come in way under my budget.  The goal is to buy 1 scope and have it be the last scope that I will ever need.  Some of the plans that I have involve decoding software installed into micro controllers such as Arduino, PIC, etc.  I do also mess with RF from time to time.  I am also looking to monitor the sine wave from my 110V outlets because I plan on going somewhat off grid in the future.  I've watched a few YouTube videos and saw suggestions that I should go for as many samples per sec as possible.

Looking for tips and advice.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 05:56:07 am by Symax »
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2021, 03:48:38 pm »
Imho..

Sds2000x
Sva3000x
1 x micsig diff probe
1 x micsig current probe

Id say 6..7k and sabe the rest
 
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Online wraper

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2021, 03:51:06 pm »
If you don't know what you need it for, you simply don't need $30k scope. And it's certainly not a tool for learning, if you manage to damage it, which is easy, repair will be very expensive. If anything, it will be significantly harder to use than a cheap scope.
Quote
I am also looking to monitor the sine wave from my 110V outlets because I plan on going somewhat off grid in the future.
If you try directly connecting it to mains voltage, very likely you will destroy it with explosion. For mains measurement you need a high voltage differential probe or a portable scope.
IMHO buy some inexpensive $300-1000 scope until you learn what you actually need. Expensive scope won't give you any advantage if used for what you mentioned. For RF spectrum analyzer is more appropriate tool.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 03:53:06 pm by wraper »
 
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Online Trader

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2021, 03:52:30 pm »
If you are learning electronics, I recommend "Siglent SDS2104X Plus" and invest the remaining budget in other instruments, types of equipment, components, etc.
 

Online knudch

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2021, 03:52:42 pm »
Use the saved money for a spectrum/network analyzer for your RF jobs

just my opinion
 

Online Trader

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2021, 03:56:50 pm »
The goal is to buy 1 scope and have it be the last scope that I will ever need.

What you think about this: "The goal is to buy 1 CELL PHONE and have it be the last cell phone that I will ever need." ?

Best brands are Keysight and Tektronix, you can start with the basic model.
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2021, 03:59:14 pm »
The goal is to buy 1 scope and have it be the last scope that I will ever need.

What you think about this: "The goal is to buy 1 CELL PHONE and have it be the last cell phone that I will ever need." ?

Best brands are Keysight and Tektronix, you can start with the basic model.

Not for tek, tds 2k seriess is a joke for modern prices and features
 
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Offline rvalente

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2021, 04:00:06 pm »
I just hope he's not trolling us and making us waste our time
 
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Online knudch

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2021, 04:10:10 pm »
I just hope he's not trolling us and making us waste our time

On the other hand ... it is fun to dream about gear's on cost of other peoples money ;)
 

Offline Symax

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2021, 04:22:32 pm »
I just hope he's not trolling us and making us waste our time

On the other hand ... it is fun to dream about gear's on cost of other peoples money ;)

I came into an inheritance and would like to get a good scope.  So yeah, go ahead and dream as big as you want.  I will be using this thread to base my purchasing decision on.  So if you were to start fresh, what would you have liked to get?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 05:11:29 pm by Symax »
 
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Offline Symax

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2021, 04:24:19 pm »
The goal is to buy 1 scope and have it be the last scope that I will ever need.

What you think about this: "The goal is to buy 1 CELL PHONE and have it be the last cell phone that I will ever need." ?

Best brands are Keysight and Tektronix, you can start with the basic model.

As long as the hardware of the basic model has the "best" hardware and software options can be added on later I'm OK with that option.  And I understand that with all forms of electronics, the "best" is only the best at that point in time and electronics is an ever evolving target.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 04:27:12 pm by Symax »
 

Online tv84

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2021, 04:31:42 pm »
And I understand that with all forms of electronics, the "best" is only the best at that point in time and electronics is an ever evolving target.

How do you conjugate that with this: "The goal is to buy 1 scope and have it be the last scope that I will ever need." ?
 
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Online pcprogrammer

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2021, 04:39:21 pm »
The best scopes one can buy probably are LeCroy or Yokogawa, but might go above budget for the actual best.

As a beginner it is better to start with something simple, and diversify for the different projects you have in mind. A mid range Siglent or Rigol will do just fine for microprocessor probing and even some rf measurements. For the latter a spectrum analyzer is better, as already advised earlier by others.

Also with such a budget you can buy a lot more then just a scope, and that might be more useful then just a single high priced scope with all the bells and whistles.

Online knudch

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2021, 04:41:29 pm »
How long do you expect to live ;) ?

If you want to combine digital scope with RF work...then might the feature RIS( Lecroy term), ESR(Siglent term) be some what of interest together with high analog bandwidth  eg. 500MHz => 1 GHz.
But does not substitute an spectrum/network analyzer
 

Offline Symax

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2021, 04:45:08 pm »
The best scopes one can buy probably are LeCroy or Yokogawa, but might go above budget for the actual best.

As a beginner it is better to start with something simple, and diversify for the different projects you have in mind. A mid range Siglent or Rigol will do just fine for microprocessor probing and even some rf measurements. For the latter a spectrum analyzer is better, as already advised earlier by others.

Also with such a budget you can buy a lot more then just a scope, and that might be more useful then just a single high priced scope with all the bells and whistles.

Ok so a good scope and a good spectrum analyzer.  What other accessories should I focus on?  I have seen a High voltage differential probe, so what should I look for there?
 

Online knudch

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2021, 04:51:58 pm »
Current probes for your solar project ;)
Remember option for spectrum/network analyzer (Even if I don't know what kind of RF work you have in mind)
I would suggest a RF signal-generator but I think some of the SA/NA can be used for simple RF signal generation
 

Offline tunk

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2021, 04:55:10 pm »
What other tools do you have? I assume you already have a
good quality multimeter, power supply and solder station?
 

Online pcprogrammer

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2021, 04:57:24 pm »
A good spectrum analyzer with a builtin tracking generator. Again Siglent and Rigol have some nice ones.

Offline Symax

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2021, 05:09:40 pm »
What other tools do you have? I assume you already have a
good quality multimeter, power supply and solder station?

I have the EEVBlog 121GW multimeter so a decent enough multimeter.  No power supply.  Only a basic solder station, but I do have a PineCil TS100 clone on order with a full complement of replaceable tips.
 

Online wraper

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2021, 05:11:05 pm »
I came into an inheritance and would like to get a good scope.  So yeah, go ahead and dream as big as you want.  I will be using this thread to base my purchasing decision on.
People with the money they did not earn often do not end well and waste it very fast. Google what happens with lottery winners. rd.com/list/13-things-lottery-winners/ The fact you got the money, does not mean you need to blow it immediately. Calm down and use your brain. Expensive scope will be large and convoluted. And on top of that usually with noisy fans. People who have access to large expensive scopes usually use them only when they have an actual need, and mostly use some simpler and much cheaper scope for the rest of the work.
 
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Offline Symax

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2021, 05:13:20 pm »
I came into an inheritance and would like to get a good scope.  So yeah, go ahead and dream as big as you want.  I will be using this thread to base my purchasing decision on.
People with the money they did not earn often do not end well and waste it very fast. Google what happens with lottery winners. rd.com/list/13-things-lottery-winners/ The fact you got the money, does not mean you need to blow it immediately. Calm down and use your brain. Expensive scope will be large and convoluted. And on top of that usually with noisy fans. People who have access to large expensive scopes usually use them only when they have an actual need, and mostly use some simpler and much cheaper scope for the rest of the work.

Yes I realize this and I have my son helping me with this financial situation.
 

Offline Symax

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2021, 05:18:28 pm »
Current probes for your solar project ;)
Remember option for spectrum/network analyzer (Even if I don't know what kind of RF work you have in mind)
I would suggest a RF signal-generator but I think some of the SA/NA can be used for simple RF signal generation

It would be nice to get more specific brands/model numbers so I can look from there.  If you were to start fresh, what would you have liked to start with?  What do you use daily?
 

Offline Symax

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2021, 05:24:32 pm »
If you don't know what you need it for, you simply don't need $30k scope. And it's certainly not a tool for learning, if you manage to damage it, which is easy, repair will be very expensive. If anything, it will be significantly harder to use than a cheap scope.
Quote
I am also looking to monitor the sine wave from my 110V outlets because I plan on going somewhat off grid in the future.
If you try directly connecting it to mains voltage, very likely you will destroy it with explosion. For mains measurement you need a high voltage differential probe or a portable scope.
IMHO buy some inexpensive $300-1000 scope until you learn what you actually need. Expensive scope won't give you any advantage if used for what you mentioned. For RF spectrum analyzer is more appropriate tool.

I more or less read this as "You are going to shoot your eye out, kid!" the quote from "A Christmas Story" in relation to the Red Rider rifle.  :D

But yeah, I get what you mean.  A good scope that can be used anywhere.  To me it will be a tool that should be multi purpose.  I do like your comment about too loud of fans, so quiet fans would be more appealing to me for sure.
 

Offline tunk

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2021, 05:34:35 pm »
What experience do you have with scopes?
As many have suggested, you may be better off starting
with a 500-1000$ scope, and if/when you outgrow it, buy
something better.
 

Offline FlexibleMammoth

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2021, 05:39:05 pm »
Okay so where do I start... for $30k you can get a very decent lab, or an overpowered oscilloscope that is very sensitive to any kind of abuse as well as cheap trash for the rest of your tools.

It's your money and I really get the enthusiasm, but maybe save a bit to cover expenses for future projects... Also you may want to look into used gear, as it gives you higher "leverage" per $ spent.

My suggestion would be:
- EDIT: apparently there is some controversy on the topic of isolation transformers, so do some research into the pros and cons of using one vs. having your DUT grounded with a low current RCD in front (your wiring must be up to code then!)
I am not letting my ego get the best of me and have someone get hurt. I still think that isolation transformers are a good thing, but there are other opinions, e.g. by ntnico later in this thread.

- A nice, but not overkill scope. Maybe a Siglent SDS5000X, which is really good value, or a Rigol MSO7000. If you insist on spending a possibly overkill amount of your budget, there is the Rohde&Schwarz RTM3000 as well as the Keysight 3000X and 4000X series (the latter is basically the same with a larger screen).

EDIT: depending on your skill level, there is also the Siglent SDS2000X Plus and the Rigol MSO5000, which cost maybe 60% of those above and are mostly similar minus the support for active probes and limited in frequency to 350MHz (if I remember correctly).

- A high voltage differential probe with at least 700V differential input range so you don't blow up your new scope (e.g. from Micsig or Pico)

- A good power supply. I like the three channel Keysight E3631 (+/- 25V, 6V), which gives you symmetric rails e.g. for ADCs and another high power rail e.g. for the main 5V rail. If you want to spend more, there is a successor with graphical display, and of course there are those from Rigol and Siglent at a cheaper price.

- An ESD mat, so you don't accidentally zap your boards.

- An ESD safe soldering stations that . Weller makes nice ones to choose from.

EDIT: you may want a solder smoke filter (not sure what they are called in English), your lungs will thank you. There are cheap ones that basically are just a fan and a sheet of activated carbon, and nice ones with multi-step filters e.g. made by Weller.

- Hand tools at  your need: side cutters, pliers, screwdrivers (Wera and Whia make nice ones), tweezers, hammers, cordless drill, step drill bit, wrenches, nuts,........

=== OPTIONAL - nice to have ===

- EDIT: I forgot the RF part - others have put it well, get a nice Spectrum Analyzer e.g.  Siglent SSA3000X Plus, depending on the frequency range you need. Only get a vector network analyzer if you actually need it and understand what makes it different from a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator.

- A signal generator. Most scopes have a simple generator built in, this may be enough in the beginnig. If you know for sure it is not enough, there are nice ones from siglent, and nicer (and waaaaay more expensive ones) from keysight. Look out for max frequency, max amplitude, modulation capabilities......

- A professional bench multimeter. Personally, I like those made by Keithley, as they have great specs and are really really fast. You can get a Keithley 2000 used for ~$500. Again, if you want to splurge, there is the new Keithley DMM6500 with graphical display.

- An LCR meter. I have the keysight U1733C, which is nice, but you may have higher/lower requirements.

=== ONLY IF YOU KNOW YOU NEED THEM ===
- A current probe. The exact type strongly depends on your application. Buy this last, when you know what you need.

- A hot air station. Again, Weller or chinese brands which I forgot (-> see YT channel of louis rossmann).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 11:56:14 pm by FlexibleMammoth »
 
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