Author Topic: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?  (Read 5863 times)

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Offline petemateTopic starter

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Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« on: September 21, 2023, 09:23:17 pm »
Hi guys,

I don't know if this is just me venting my frustration or if I'm making this up, but it seems to me that all the good deals(or just any deals) have disappeared. Am I the only one experiencing this?

I used to be able to hit up ebay and get nice selection of reasonably priced items that of course wouldn't be the latest and greatest, but at least somewhat modern units. For instance, around 5-6 years ago there always were a few Keithley 2015/2016 units available for just a few hundred USD/EUR. And of course, a lot of other interesting listings as well. I live in the EU, so I only look at items located within the EU borders, to get around import and VAT issues.

All these "deals" have disappeared over the last few years.. When I look through the "Test, Measurement & Inspection Equipment" category on ebay, its mostly old and/or useless crap at exorbitant prices. I guess the disappearance of any good listings coincided with Brexit and Covid. I get that Brexit basically excluded the entire British market to me, but the same applies to listings on e.g. the german ebay site.

Is it simply that all the good stuff gets snatched up the second its posted, or am I correct that the selection has diminished significantly?

Feel free to tell me that I'm just making this up, if thats the case :)

 
 
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Offline pope

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2023, 09:43:56 pm »
I've been wondering the same thing...
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2023, 10:13:54 pm »
Looking at recent sold ebay.com prices: Keithley 2015 $580 to $675
Yeah seems high.

MSRP for a new DMM6500 went from under $1200 to now $1670.
There may also be scarcity of that particular model if old units are starting to fail.

There are definitely still deals around. Maybe look around locally for auctions, companies shutting down, on marketplace, etc.
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Offline _Wim_

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2023, 07:47:00 pm »
I don't know if this is just me venting my frustration or if I'm making this up, but it seems to me that all the good deals(or just any deals) have disappeared. Am I the only one experiencing this?
I agree Ebay seems to have less good deals lately, but still some do appear, but you have to search much harder to find them between the old and overpriced junk.

I live in the EU, so I only look at items located within the EU borders, to get around import and VAT issues.
I would not do that. Most items I buy come from the US, and even with shipping and import, they are still more affordable than Ebay items from the EU

 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2023, 10:27:11 am »
I haven't watched eBay for quite some time now, but from the rant in the OP it looks like nothing much has changed during the past ten years.

It depends on the items. Back then there was only a few great sellers from Finland (or maybe it's always been the same), who had really great deals. I got my Keithley 2015 THD this way - I think it was less than €400,- - but it was not easy to find comparable deals within Europe.

My RF signal generator Anritsu MG3633A came from Finland as well - nothing even remotely comparabe was available in the rest of Europe.

When I needed more precision and accurcy than my standard lab-DMM (Picotest M3500A = Keithley 2100), which I had baught new, was capable of, I had to order from the US to get a Keithley 2001. I bought two of them from different sellers, neither was a proplem since eBay/PayPal already had the customs service included back then, so there was basically no difference compared to local deals - except for the higher price and shipping costs.

If rediculous shipping costs are quoted, then I assume the seller doesn't want to do international business and I simply ignore the offer. There have always been plenty of reasonable dealers on eBay.

In any case, the most important thing back then (as well as most likely now) is patience. Set up a search for the item you want and just wait. At one point you will get an eMail that hints on a decent unit for a reasonable price, even if it takes weeks or even months.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2023, 11:10:52 am »
Although not living in EU, I have noticed that some "seasons of bargains" at eBay are also dependent on major events in the industry or economy - from the .com bubble burst of the early 2000s, the crysis of 2008/2009 and, specifically in the US, the implosion of a very large technincal school in 2016. What is interesting nowadays is that this post-bs-lockdown economic downturn has probably done some "harm" to the bargains as the surviving companies might be holding on to their equipment longer than issuing capex authorizations for replacement, which in turn reduces the availability of older gear in the marketplace.

As others mentioned the bargains are still there, but perhaps people realized that eBay is not the only game in town anymore: there are many other online outlets for used items nowadays.
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Online wn1fju

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2023, 11:44:59 am »
At least here in the USA, there certainly was a marked decline in eBay offerings during Covid, probably due to companies not actively engaged in purchasing new test equipment and retiring old. 

But in the last year or so, the situation seems to be improving.  And yes, there are a lot of ridiculously overpriced listings.  One can usually determine the fair market value of a used piece, especially one that is 20+ years old, by looking at the "sold/completed" listings.  And yet you will frequently see sellers offering pieces at ten times that value.  It is like they are totally oblivious.  I often want to e-mail the seller the question, "are you kidding me?"
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2023, 01:49:46 pm »
I often want to e-mail the seller the question, "are you kidding me?"


   Ebay needs to add a "Are you F****** kidding me?" button, like the Like and Dislike buttons used on social media so that viewers can flag ridiculous listings. And the Search there should have an option to not-display any flagged items.

    I hate how much time I waste looking for items on Ebay only to find things that have ridiculous prices and/or shipping fees.   Yesterday's laugh of the day was a broken HP 4338A for ~$1300!  And two working ones on there for ~$800.

    I do regret that Ebay no longer charges a listing fee based on the starting price of the item. Now seller just throw junk on there and put an insane price on it and see if anyone is that stupid or that desperate.
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2023, 03:02:43 pm »
Or they are being hoarded by Russia...  ::)
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2023, 04:49:51 pm »
Or China
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2023, 04:54:43 pm »
I often want to e-mail the seller the question, "are you kidding me?"

    I do regret that Ebay no longer charges a listing fee based on the starting price of the item. Now seller just throw junk on there and put an insane price on it and see if anyone is that stupid or that desperate.


We have a saying in the office for this; E-Bay wankerism
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 08:56:57 am by Sighound36 »
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2023, 03:56:32 pm »
I would LOVE it if eBay added a laugh react button. That would make the experience a lot more satisfying.
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Offline DaJMasta

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2023, 05:44:23 pm »
Inflation across the board is around 20% in that timeframe, as a reference.

New test equipment prices have spiked by at least that much.

Shipping charges are up 3x what they were in 2018 or more (at least in the US, outside of the postal service).

More people are looking for equipment, especially with things like youtube to learn about obscure equipment and run side businesses using it, and the prices for new mean more small businesses are buying used.


Your Keithley 2015 is actually a pretty good reference.  Yes, they went for cheap before when they were being surplussed with low demand, but how much demand does it take to get it to $600 on the used market for a working one when a new one from Tek is $6600 and it's in the current product line?  My guess would be on the order of 5-10 sales a month across ebay would drive the price up enough in that timeframe to double the price from 2018 to 2023 - the supply was never hundreds of units, I'm currently seeing 24 units on the market available to the US on ebay.

Yeah, there are definitely people listing arbitrarily high prices for equipment, and yeah, there are people buying equipment to make a quick buck turning it around for a higher price... but I think the 'good ol days' of cheap used equipment was a combination of a market with legitimately depressed prices because of low demand and an overlooking of the impact of the significant inflation in the last three years.
 
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Offline magic_smoke

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2023, 02:53:55 pm »
I believe there are still some bargains if you commit to hunting.

A Hameg HM604 was sold for 25 euros a couple of days ago on auction (without probes). It was misspelled  as "HAMEL" in the title and it was the only electronics related item from the seller. Unfortunately I was hesitant to bid as I can't tell if it was working from the photos. The last time I touched an analog scope was many years ago at university.
 

Offline LaurentR

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2023, 05:14:17 pm »
Note that Keysight's used store still exists, it is just not on EBay anymore. They have quite a few units 50-60% off, which makes them a somewhat more reasonable value for the well-heeled hobbyist / budding professional.

https://saving.em.keysight.com/en/used/

I know this may not work in the EU due to their requirements to only sell to / support businesses. In the US, I just gave it a shot and while it's a bit more convoluted than on EBay (they use a standard quoting mechanism, not direct sales), they only ask for a company name, not proof that's you have anything actually incorporated (which doesn't really exist anyway).
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2023, 08:18:40 pm »
Note that Keysight's used store still exists, it is just not on EBay anymore. They have quite a few units 50-60% off, which makes them a somewhat more reasonable value for the well-heeled hobbyist / budding professional.
Are you sure they will sell you without a VAT ID, or whatever they can ask for to make sure you are not a hobby user?

I don't know if this is just me venting my frustration or if I'm making this up, but it seems to me that all the good deals(or just any deals) have disappeared. Am I the only one experiencing this?
No, you are not the only one. I think they are purchasing back cheap used equipment and destroying it (and writing it down from taxes) because the used market was driving their sales down.
 

Online TheSteve

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2023, 10:42:21 pm »
There is certainly much less broken HPAK gear on eBay. What is listed is usually priced quite high compared to a few years ago - and often sells so I guess that's just how pricing/values have gone.

Put a real dent into a super fun hobby. I love buying broken stuff.
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Offline dobsonr741

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2023, 10:42:28 pm »
Real auctions are still happening, like on BidSpotter
 

Offline M Harris

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2023, 11:15:39 am »
Note that Keysight's used store still exists, it is just not on EBay anymore. They have quite a few units 50-60% off, which makes them a somewhat more reasonable value for the well-heeled hobbyist / budding professional.

https://saving.em.keysight.com/en/used/

Yes, but any time you hit the Enquire button it takes them 4-8 weeks to reply (if at all) saying "oh we had a data error, are you still interested?" - never had a response faster than that from them.


--

In general I think the supply chain issues have also played havoc with the used market, since it has been damn near impossible to get some classes of new equipment. Vendors have only just received stock of the Keysight 6.5/7.5 digit DMM's in the past few months. Keysight's earnings call said they are back ordered by about a billion US dollars which is absolutely incredible... thats a lot of test equipment that isnt getting replaced, even if a substantial portion of that back order list is for new capability.

Personally, I've never found anything decent on online market places when I've looked in the past... but I could just be doing it wrong **shrug**
 

Offline arvidb

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2023, 10:02:22 am »
I live in the EU, so I only look at items located within the EU borders, to get around import and VAT issues.

How do you even do this nowadays? Isn't it several years now since Ebay removed the option to filter on item location? I've pretty much stopped using Ebay since; almost regardless of what I'm searching for any possibly interesting items are drowned in a sea of cheap Chinese versions items located in China (that is: possibly low-quality clones; no useful buyer protection; impossible to know if electrical certifications are genuine; hassle with VAT and shipping, ...).
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 10:10:44 am by arvidb »
 

Offline petemateTopic starter

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2023, 07:22:56 pm »
Hi all, thanks for all your input - Glad i'm not the only one feeling like this. Only remaining question is where do I go to satisfy my need for test equipment?


I live in the EU, so I only look at items located within the EU borders, to get around import and VAT issues.

How do you even do this nowadays? Isn't it several years now since Ebay removed the option to filter on item location? I've pretty much stopped using Ebay since; almost regardless of what I'm searching for any possibly interesting items are drowned in a sea of cheap Chinese versions items located in China (that is: possibly low-quality clones; no useful buyer protection; impossible to know if electrical certifications are genuine; hassle with VAT and shipping, ...).

Yeah, they changed some things and it took me a loong time to figure out what the problem was. For some reason, if you have entered a non-ebay country "delivery location"(the field immediately below the "sort" drop down menu when you search for something), then ebay removes the option to filter by item location. If you enter e.g. Germany as delivery location, the function comes back and you can filter by "European union".
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2023, 07:26:32 pm »
Only remaining question is where do I go to satisfy my need for test equipment?
New.
Good new instruments have never been so well priced.


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Offline Bud

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2023, 08:08:04 pm »
Not to sound as a conspiracy nut, but my opinion is this is another link in the chain indicating the West is tightening technology availability. You all remember the Keysight lawers going after buyers who purchased used Agilent/Keysight gear on ebay  saga, or Keysight suddenly leaving hobby market overnight. The export compliancy declarations that the suppliers like Digikey have put forward is anothef indication. As president Obama liked to say, "do not make any mistakes".
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 08:09:44 pm by Bud »
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Offline pope

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2023, 08:22:23 pm »
Not to sound as a conspiracy nut, but my opinion is this is another link in the chain indicating the West is tightening technology availability. You all remember the Keysight lawers going after buyers who purchased used Agilent/Keysight gear on ebay  saga, or Keysight suddenly leaving hobby market overnight. The export compliancy declarations that the suppliers like Digikey have put forward is anothef indication. As president Obama liked to say, "do not make any mistakes".

But why?
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Where did all the used test equipment deals go?
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2023, 08:50:27 pm »
To achive technological supremacy.
And the old professional gear is very capable. Who cares about size and weight if it is functional for the purpose. Cutting off the old gear availability is the 'stop the bleading' step.
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