Where is the cheap test gear ? What happened in the past few years ?

[ralphrmartin]

It's not just test gear. Second hand books can end up at silly prices too, to take an example.

One thing I believe happens is this. Someone sets a silly price for something (maybe through error, maybe through very poor judgement, maybe just in the hope that an idiot will fall for it). Other people (or algorithms) see it, and set a similar price. Once that has happened a few times, it somehow becomes a standard asking price. No one wants to set a much lower price, as they think they are cheating themselves, "not getting what its worth" for the item. The end result is a lot of people sitting on stuff they aren't using, but also not selling, due to a mismatch between what they are prepared to sell for, and what purchasers are willing to pay. Of, course, there is an occasional sale when someone is desperate (or ignorant) enough to buy at any price, and that only serves to reinforce the silly price.

There was a well known example of algorithmic pricing gone mad, on Amazon some years ago, when a book on flies ended up being priced at over $24 million, basically with two sellers each trying to make a bit more than the lowest price.
https://www.wired.com/2011/04/amazon-flies-24-million/

[KevinA]

Here in the North of England, the premier place used to be Johns radio; Top quality goods at sensible prices.

Many years ago, I was talking to John whilst his wife copied a service manual for me. He recounted a recent Government Auction he had attended, where a very exotic Japanese spectrum analyser came up for sale. No one had heard of it, and no one wanted to touch it, apart from a chap who snatched  it up for an absolute song.

John spoke to the guy afterwards to find out what he had seen in the unit. Very simple said the guy; I work for XSERGVKOY Government department, and we needed a mega high end spectrum analyser for a project, but this years funds were not enough to purchase one. Whilst speaking to a friend about it, said friend said they had plenty of that years funds left; I will buy it, and immediately put it into auction as no longer required. All you have to do is attend the auction, you will get it for a song.

[HobGoblyn]

I THINK it’s a similar thing to finding spare parts for my Myford lathe.  As the vintage lathes have become sought after, you get eBay listings for these lathes in A1 condition complete with gearbox, stand and a ton of accessories for say £1.5k

Others see how much this old very well looked after and very well serviced lathe is selling for, so they try selling their completely worn out and badly maintained lathe for say £1000 when it’s not worth half of that.

Then there’s the people who give it a quick coat of paint and try to sell for more.

But the most annoying by far is the simple fact that now, if you’re looking for a spare cog etc, 99.9% are sold by companies who seem to Hoover up all these old lathes and set a min price of about £40 for something that’s really worth about £5

[tautech]

I THINK it’s a similar thing to finding spare parts for my Myford lathe.  As the vintage lathes have become sought after, you get eBay listings for these lathes in A1 condition complete with gearbox, stand and a ton of accessories for say £1.5k

Others see how much this old very well looked after and very well serviced lathe is selling for, so they try selling their completely worn out and badly maintained lathe for say £1000 when it’s not worth half of that.

Then there’s the people who give it a quick coat of paint and try to sell for more.

But the most annoying by far is the simple fact that now, if you’re looking for a spare cog etc, 99.9% are sold by companies who seem to Hoover up all these old lathes and set a min price of about £40 for something that’s really worth about £5

Yeah all that for sure however when getting a Harrison 12 offered to me a few years back and after a little research disclosed it was a rarely seen fully optioned unit and with all accessories also (Chucks, steadies, toolpost and some tooling etc) I jumped at the chance for $1800 NZ (~1000 quid) despite it showing some bed wear.
Still think it was a fine buy although I don't use it much although been doing a little jobby with it today. 

Yet when we have gained some little experience with older equipment/tools we are better placed to know what what constitutes a reasonable/good deal rather than diving in boots and all first up to find you have just bought a POS.

[gnavigator1007]

Cheap test gear is still everywhere, it's just some lunatics are willing to pay more for it 

I've definitely seen price increases even outside of ebay the last few years. Many of the bigger auction houses have implemented or increased bid minimums, deposits, & buyer premiums. It's kind of wild that I don't think I own a single piece of bench gear that I couldn't turn around and make a profit on now. I do wonder how much ends up being essentially set decoration for youtubers and their viewers. I'm certainly guilty of buying some things just because I could. Dave himself has done videos that resulted in major price increase followed by scarcity of the featured bit of kit. He's sabotaged me a couple times with items I already had my eye on 

Thing that bothers me most is the number of re-sellers that seem to specialize in "for parts/not working" test equipment with "unable to test" in the description. Sometimes priced quite reasonably until you see the shipping cost.

It isn't just test equipment though. Seems a lot more people are comfortable buying used in general. Thrift store prices are insane compared to what they were a few years ago.  The only area I haven't really seen a big jump in prices is used medical equipment.

[CatalinaWOW]

Thing that bothers me most is the number of re-sellers that seem to specialize in "for parts/not working" test equipment with "unable to test" in the description. Sometimes priced quite reasonably until you see the shipping cost.

I can't speak to shipping rates of yore because I just didn't do much.  But "boat anchors"  really do cost a lot to ship.  Even if the time and materials for packaging are thrown in for free.  Which means that you really need to find stuff in a local market, which in turn means that there are only a few privileged places in the whole world.  Places like the LA basin, the SF Bay area and others.

[gnavigator1007]

Very true. Sometimes shipping is just legitimately expensive, although I've never had the guts to risk having more than a canoe anchor shipped. Figure there's a limited number of these things in existence and as much as I might want something, I'd rather it continue to exist and just hope I can go pick something similar up in person eventually. I was more referring to some of the listings I've seen that are within the same part of the state, can't weigh more than eight pounds with packaging, and still want close to $100 for shipping.

[med6753]

If you are in the U.S. deals can be had, but it takes searching and patience. And usually a willingness to invest in some troubleshooting time and parts cost. Don't be afraid to check out local sites such as Craigslist. The obvious advantage here is you can personally check out the equipment and make a better informed decision. Some of my best deals have come from CL. Examples: A dead Tek 7904 with 4 plug-in's for $100. My time and less than $50 in parts and it was fully functional. A dead Tek 2465 for $75. It was missing the fuse holder cap and the fuse itself. Installed those parts and it powered up 100% functional.

Yes, Ebay can be a crap shoot. Sometimes good deal and sometimes you have to wonder why I spent so much for a POS.       

[0culus]

If you are in the U.S. deals can be had, but it takes searching and patience. And usually a willingness to invest in some troubleshooting time and parts cost. Don't be afraid to check out local sites such as Craigslist. The obvious advantage here is you can personally check out the equipment and make a better informed decision. Some of my best deals have come from CL. Examples: A dead Tek 7904 with 4 plug-in's for $100. My time and less than $50 in parts and it was fully functional. A dead Tek 2465 for $75. It was missing the fuse holder cap and the fuse itself. Installed those parts and it powered up 100% functional.

Yes, Ebay can be a crap shoot. Sometimes good deal and sometimes you have to wonder why I spent so much for a POS.       

It's worth noting that local deals are heavily dependent on where you are. If you are close to high tech areas (like Massachusetts, Silicon Valley, anywhere that has a national lab nearby, etc) there is going to be a lot more surplus floating around. If you can get stuff that lived in the desert most of it's  life, all the better!

[med6753]

If you are in the U.S. deals can be had, but it takes searching and patience. And usually a willingness to invest in some troubleshooting time and parts cost. Don't be afraid to check out local sites such as Craigslist. The obvious advantage here is you can personally check out the equipment and make a better informed decision. Some of my best deals have come from CL. Examples: A dead Tek 7904 with 4 plug-in's for $100. My time and less than $50 in parts and it was fully functional. A dead Tek 2465 for $75. It was missing the fuse holder cap and the fuse itself. Installed those parts and it powered up 100% functional.

Yes, Ebay can be a crap shoot. Sometimes good deal and sometimes you have to wonder why I spent so much for a POS.       

It's worth noting that local deals are heavily dependent on where you are. If you are close to high tech areas (like Massachusetts, Silicon Valley, anywhere that has a national lab nearby, etc) there is going to be a lot more surplus floating around. If you can get stuff that lived in the desert most of it's  life, all the better!

Very true. My local area once had three IBM sites (now 1) and four of my scopes were originally owned by them. A 475A, 485, 2430, 2465.

[uski]

Okay okay, when I created this thread I was half expecting to be shown the magical place where all the cheap equipment was.
But instead you confirmed my feelings

So!!! today out of despair I just ordered, brand new straight from Tektronix, a Keithley DMM6500 6 1/2 digit multimeter with 1 MS/s sample rate, and a Keithley 2280S-60-3 power supply with integrated 6 1/2 digit readings, graphing capability, 60V 3A output.

Thank you for giving me the necessary excuse/justification for this purchase

Next on the line is a Rigol MSO5000-series scope.
Just wanted to share my excitment with you !

I also joined the TEA thread. If you can't beat em... join em !

[Bicurico]

Hahaha... you will love your new devices.
Plus, you now have the time and equipment to look out for bargains which you can repair yourself. Welcome to the TEA!
Oh - the excuse to buy second hand gear, once you already have brand new gear, is of course to have backup equipment.

Regards,
Vitor

[uski]

Hahaha... you will love your new devices.
Plus, you now have the time and equipment to look out for bargains which you can repair yourself. Welcome to the TEA!
Oh - the excuse to buy second hand gear, once you already have brand new gear, is of course to have backup equipment.

Thanks Vitor. We always need a few backup oscilloscopes. We never know what could happen ! 

In fact, I am indeed frustrated that even broken test gear is expensive. Because I really want to practice my repair skills and I love that satisfaction of repairing something successfully !

[Bicurico]

"I love that satisfaction of repairing something successfully !"

You just need to start looking at some new niche: In the last months I successfullly bought myself an iMac 24" "2009" for 150 Euro and an iBook Air 11" "2013" for 250 Euro. Both look like brand-new and are working flaw-less. The iMac is primarily used as a TV (I use IPTV streaming where the iMac is setup) and it was by far the cheapest option. As a bonus I got a whole Mac, too, which is still great for surfing, office, etc. The only thing broken was the magic mouse. After openening it (it is glued - arghh) and cleaning it, it works like a charm.

The iBook Air is just working. It has an Intel Core i5 processor and is super light. Perfect for trips or meetings (my "other" laptop is an 17" Asus ROG that weights like 5kg with PSU and stuff).

But even cheaper is to buy a broken iMac 24" or 27". They are pretty repairable, because the screen comes off (just hold by magnets instead of glue) and many regular PC components are used. And the screen is just fantastic. I imagine that you could get great deals on non-working units, where you just need to replace the HDD (regular 3.5" HDD), memory SDIMM (very available) or CPU (available and you could even upgrade to the fastest supported unit). If you have better equipment for BGA soldering, you might get your kicks out of repairing broken graphics adapters. The whole graphics board can be replaced, too. This means that by buying a few broken units, you will be able to repair a few, just by swapping components and cleaning the dust out of the interior.

This is just an example for a product that is sold quite cheap these days, but is still of great value for certain applications. I imagine they will get more expensive at some point, too.

Or why not consider buying a cheap X-Ray or Ultra-Sound machine? Mainstream is still not looking at these things. I have even started to consider buying a patient monitor for my own use (at least I would get propper heart rate, blood pressure and oxygen levels, compared to general public devices).

The point is: when everyone is into buying second hand test equipment to score a profit after an easy repair, try to find something else to give you the adrenaline rush (during repair) and endorphine release (after sucessfull repair).

Regards,
vitor

[SilverSolder]

[...]  try to find something else to give you the adrenaline rush (during repair) and endorphine release (after sucessfull repair).  [...]

Falling in love?

[uski]

But even cheaper is to buy a broken iMac 24" or 27". They are pretty repairable, because the screen comes off (just hold by magnets instead of glue) and many regular PC components are used. And the screen is just fantastic. I imagine that you could get great deals on non-working units, where you just need to replace the HDD (regular 3.5" HDD), memory SDIMM (very available) or CPU (available and you could even upgrade to the fastest supported unit)

I have a secret. I had a seemingly endless source (magic dumpster) of old laptops. Mostly early Core i3/i5 units (first gen), typically Dell business laptops.
I was replacing the old HDD by a SSD, putting a new battery and power supply, reinstalling Windows 10 with the license key on the laptop... and I was selling them

I did not made a huge amount, but probably enough to pay for my next oscilloscope.

I would have made more if I was a bit dishonest and selling units with the old batteries and HDD since my customers were mostly not tech-savvy, but I can sleep at night knowing I sold them a computer that actually works decently.

Unfortunately it is over now... 

[SilverSolder]

But even cheaper is to buy a broken iMac 24" or 27". They are pretty repairable, because the screen comes off (just hold by magnets instead of glue) and many regular PC components are used. And the screen is just fantastic. I imagine that you could get great deals on non-working units, where you just need to replace the HDD (regular 3.5" HDD), memory SDIMM (very available) or CPU (available and you could even upgrade to the fastest supported unit)

I have a secret. I had a seemingly endless source (magic dumpster) of old laptops. Mostly early Core i3/i5 units (first gen), typically Dell business laptops.
I was replacing the old HDD by a SSD, putting a new battery and power supply, reinstalling Windows 10 with the license key on the laptop... and I was selling them

I did not made a huge amount, but probably enough to pay for my next oscilloscope.

I would have made more if I was a bit dishonest and selling units with the old batteries and HDD since my customers were mostly not tech-savvy, but I can sleep at night knowing I sold them a computer that actually works decently.

Unfortunately it is over now... 

You have to be careful doing that kind of thing, if it is a work related source...   I have seen good people get fired for that, even though it was all going to be scrapped so they thought it would be OK.

[uski]

But even cheaper is to buy a broken iMac 24" or 27". They are pretty repairable, because the screen comes off (just hold by magnets instead of glue) and many regular PC components are used. And the screen is just fantastic. I imagine that you could get great deals on non-working units, where you just need to replace the HDD (regular 3.5" HDD), memory SDIMM (very available) or CPU (available and you could even upgrade to the fastest supported unit)

I have a secret. I had a seemingly endless source (magic dumpster) of old laptops. Mostly early Core i3/i5 units (first gen), typically Dell business laptops.
I was replacing the old HDD by a SSD, putting a new battery and power supply, reinstalling Windows 10 with the license key on the laptop... and I was selling them

I did not made a huge amount, but probably enough to pay for my next oscilloscope.

I would have made more if I was a bit dishonest and selling units with the old batteries and HDD since my customers were mostly not tech-savvy, but I can sleep at night knowing I sold them a computer that actually works decently.

Unfortunately it is over now... 

You have to be careful doing that kind of thing, if it is a work related source...   I have seen good people get fired for that, even though it was all going to be scrapped so they thought it would be OK.

Good advice that definitely needs to be taken into account, but in my specific situation I was fine. It was an office building electronic waste recycling dumpster. Exactly like what Dave from EEVblog shows sometimes.
The company throwing these away probably had no idea that I was taking them. A lot of people was taking stuff from the container and I'm sure there was even nicer stuff that I could not get because others probably had first dibs
Also I was working for a very small company and they would not fire me for this. In fact they all knew about it.

Now I work for a large US corporation and I would not risk this at work for sure

[uski]

I just found the deal of the century 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oven-Controlled-LTFLU-or-LTZ1000-High-Precision-Reference-10V-DC-Standard-Source/184444451883

QUICK ! BUY IT NOW 

[free_electron]

this seems to be the single most important reason! Tax reasons!

yup. That and government grants for projects. They can bill the new shiney towards the grant

[uski]

I just realized something... with the coronavirus pandemic, and many people working from home, it is very possible that many companies have not been operating recently and this might have slowed down the amount of equipment refresh and disposal.

If we (unfortunately) get companies to go bankrupt in the next few months, we could see a surge in surplus equipment.

[SilverSolder]

I just realized something... with the coronavirus pandemic, and many people working from home, it is very possible that many companies have not been operating recently and this might have slowed down the amount of equipment refresh and disposal.

If we (unfortunately) get companies to go bankrupt in the next few months, we could see a surge in surplus equipment.

This works both ways...  people working from home may now need more equipment at home, instead of going in to the office lab to work.