Author Topic: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?  (Read 10880 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tv84

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3345
  • Country: pt
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2022, 05:50:16 pm »
So, there is no viable scope for a student/hobbyst.

 :wtf: Are you a bot? Or getting paid by the word?

Text us when you have made your decision.



 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto, JPortici

Offline jjoonathan

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: us
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2022, 06:01:41 pm »
"I can think of one drawback for each option, therefore I can't possibly choose!"

Look, I get it, I feel that way too sometimes, just remember that you have intentionally excluded the common mode from your analysis. It is irrelevant for choosing between options, but the fact is that all of our choices are good and cheap these days vs not too long ago, and that fact is hiding in the common mode. If you can't choose right, you can't choose wrong. Roll a dice if you must.
 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto, bdunham7, switchabl, jasonRF, balnazzar

Offline alm

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: 00
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2022, 06:02:40 pm »
These are all little aspects that make using the oscilloscope enjoyable and the money worth spending. It seems you have to forcefully give up on something, while implementing such stuff would be quite easy for the manufacturers.
Claiming that means there is no viable scope is ridiculous, though. Engineers and hobbyists have been using various scopes for decades. All the way back to tube-based  analog scopes. And now suddenly none of those scopes are good enough for hobby use? Sure, features are nice to have, but none of them are essential.

Lots of things might happen to oscilloscopes in the next 10 years. However, nothing much has happened to DMMs in the last 30 years, except who makes the popular ones. Why would that change in the next 10 years?
The HP 34401A had a alphanumeric VFD, while the 3445x/6x/7x series have a graphical LCD that can do trend plots, histograms etc. On the handheld front we have some models like the Fluke 289 that have similar features. I'd say that's progress and something that can be very useful if the form factor allows a large enough display (e.g. bench DMM).

I wouldn't expect too much change on the analog side, we're not going to see 6.5 digit handhelds becoming popular. But I expect changes in the UI, just like the Keysight 34461A is quite different from the HP/Agilent 34401A. Also I expect to see the digital sampling of AC signals (what Keysight calls TrueVolt) instead of analog True-RMS converters to become more common.


 
The following users thanked this post: Kleinstein, balnazzar

Offline Axtman

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 183
  • Country: us
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2022, 06:14:27 pm »
The future of digital multimeters will be wristwatch multi-meters! Duh!  :-DD

 

Offline bdunham7

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8175
  • Country: us
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2022, 06:29:53 pm »
Exactly... They could make it silent at little or no cost at all.  |O

And, as I said elsewhere, the pc workstation I built is much more silent than a commercial A-brand workstation (that costs 2X at the very least) with the same specs. That's because I implemented good airflow, sensors, and bought quality fans.

It actually isn't cheap or easy to make things reliable and quiet.  If customers demanded silent products the market would necessitate their production.  I'm guessing you are just bothered more about fan noise than most.  I've built quiet PCs too--with a great deal of effort--for special purposes (HTPC/Hi-Fi room) but other than that unless it is a very whiny rack server fan, I'm not really bothered by a bit of fan noise.  The only instrument I have with a truly annoying fan is an HP signal generator that sounds like a bench grinder.  And as for cheapo vs A-brand, I have two Tek scopes--both over $5K new--that are noisier than either of my stock Siglents.  And my Tek PS280 PSU has the loudest fan of anything on or near my bench (the HP sig gen is banished to the garage unless needed). 
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7462
  • Country: hr
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2022, 06:33:22 pm »
For some reason i just had a flashback to my youth.. I remembered the book "The Princess and the Pea" by Hans Christian Andersen.. I have no idea why ... :-//
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto, jasonRF, balnazzar

Offline balnazzar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2022, 08:45:49 pm »
"I can think of one drawback for each option, therefore I can't possibly choose!"

Look, I get it, I feel that way too sometimes, just remember that you have intentionally excluded the common mode from your analysis. It is irrelevant for choosing between options, but the fact is that all of our choices are good and cheap these days vs not too long ago, and that fact is hiding in the common mode. If you can't choose right, you can't choose wrong. Roll a dice if you must.

You aren't wrong.

Still...
 

Offline balnazzar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2022, 08:49:01 pm »
It actually isn't cheap or easy to make things reliable and quiet.  If customers demanded silent products the market would necessitate their production.  I'm guessing you are just bothered more about fan noise than most.  I've built quiet PCs too--with a great deal of effort--for special purposes (HTPC/Hi-Fi room) but other than that unless it is a very whiny rack server fan, I'm not really bothered by a bit of fan noise.  The only instrument I have with a truly annoying fan is an HP signal generator that sounds like a bench grinder.  And as for cheapo vs A-brand, I have two Tek scopes--both over $5K new--that are noisier than either of my stock Siglents.  And my Tek PS280 PSU has the loudest fan of anything on or near my bench (the HP sig gen is banished to the garage unless needed).

Got the message. A-brand doesn't (necessarily) mean more care for details and ergonomics.
Sad.
 

Offline balnazzar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2022, 08:49:51 pm »
For some reason i just had a flashback to my youth.. I remembered the book "The Princess and the Pea" by Hans Christian Andersen.. I have no idea why ... :-//

Ha. Ha.  :-DD

 :palm:
 

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7462
  • Country: hr
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2022, 08:57:17 pm »
For some reason i just had a flashback to my youth.. I remembered the book "The Princess and the Pea" by Hans Christian Andersen.. I have no idea why ... :-//

Ha. Ha.  :-DD

 :palm:

Well, you are a bit picky, you know...  ^-^
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline switchabl

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 445
  • Country: de
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2022, 11:11:35 pm »
Well, let's say we were designing a budget oscilloscope and our market research found that suddenly absolutely no one wants to buy anything with a noisy fan anymore (although for some reason most of the survey participants had the same IP address based in Italy, weird that). So we decide to make silent operation a prime design goal and "go to town". Good thermal design is free after all, right? So what do we do?
- massive custom heatsinks help; they are also expensive and require mechanical support
- bigger, slower fans are a lot quieter; and you will probably need to design a new, bigger case to fit them
- well, if we are designing a new case and have new injection moulds made, at least we can re-design for better airflow as well (maybe hire a specialist?)
- oh no, the PSU has minimum airflow requirements we don't meet anymore; well, not to despair, we just get a more expensive one with higher-rated parts; or, how about a custom one that integrates nicely with our new case, I mean how much can that really cost?
- our main board may now run a bit hotter, that may be bad for realibility. Oh well, let's order some Nichicon 105°C caps and use the Crapxxon stockpile for something else instead.
- we also have a potential for larger temperature-gradients in the frontend now; may need to loosen some of the specs a bit? Or find some lower TC parts?
- the old model had a lot of headroom when it comes to cooling really, we figured "better safe than sorry" and were fairly confident it would be able to take almost anything customers would throw at it even with the vents all clogged up after a couple of years; we're flying a lot closer to the sun now but we'll just do really thorough environmental testing, so we will be fine

Fast forward to the launch date... Well, it was tough, but we made it.  :phew: Ok, kinda. There were a lot of delays because of all the custom parts and the re-designs. Also the bike-shedding in design review meetings, everyone is a bloody expert in thermal design now, it was basically like reddit in there, soo annoying. And there was that embarassing incident when a prototype set a customer's lab on fire. But the software people say the fan-control bug is fixed now.  :-// So some minor features didn't get done in time and we moved most of the devs over to the new spectrum analyzer project. We just tell customers that "there is no public roadmap for new features at this time but software development is ongoing". It's not a lie either, Karen comes in twice a week to fix some bugs. Anyway, it's mostly just statistics and some weird memory-management stuff that no-one cares about that's missing. And it's just twice the price of our direct competitor's product, which is soo much louder.

It's a great day, it's just a little sad that our social media manager quit today because he "couldn't take the abuse anymore". Some guy calling himself balnazzar was spamming rants everywhere about how the new scope "has really bad price/performance" and is "useless because it doesn't have basic features" and that he would rather use a rusty nail and a light bulb.

* I originally wanted to write a serious post about thermal design but I am currently home sick and may not quite be my normal boring self. There is stilll a serious point here: nothing is free, there are almost always trade-offs.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2022, 11:37:44 pm by switchabl »
 
The following users thanked this post: tautech, KE5FX, 2N3055, doppelgrau, mawyatt, jasonRF

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7462
  • Country: hr
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2022, 06:16:14 am »
Well, let's say we were designing a budget oscilloscope and our market research found that suddenly absolutely no one wants to buy anything with a noisy fan anymore (although for some reason most of the survey participants had the same IP address based in Italy, weird that). So we decide to make silent operation a prime design goal and "go to town". Good thermal design is free after all, right? So what do we do?
- massive custom heatsinks help; they are also expensive and require mechanical support
- bigger, slower fans are a lot quieter; and you will probably need to design a new, bigger case to fit them
- well, if we are designing a new case and have new injection moulds made, at least we can re-design for better airflow as well (maybe hire a specialist?)
- oh no, the PSU has minimum airflow requirements we don't meet anymore; well, not to despair, we just get a more expensive one with higher-rated parts; or, how about a custom one that integrates nicely with our new case, I mean how much can that really cost?
- our main board may now run a bit hotter, that may be bad for realibility. Oh well, let's order some Nichicon 105°C caps and use the Crapxxon stockpile for something else instead.
- we also have a potential for larger temperature-gradients in the frontend now; may need to loosen some of the specs a bit? Or find some lower TC parts?
- the old model had a lot of headroom when it comes to cooling really, we figured "better safe than sorry" and were fairly confident it would be able to take almost anything customers would throw at it even with the vents all clogged up after a couple of years; we're flying a lot closer to the sun now but we'll just do really thorough environmental testing, so we will be fine

Fast forward to the launch date... Well, it was tough, but we made it.  :phew: Ok, kinda. There were a lot of delays because of all the custom parts and the re-designs. Also the bike-shedding in design review meetings, everyone is a bloody expert in thermal design now, it was basically like reddit in there, soo annoying. And there was that embarassing incident when a prototype set a customer's lab on fire. But the software people say the fan-control bug is fixed now.  :-// So some minor features didn't get done in time and we moved most of the devs over to the new spectrum analyzer project. We just tell customers that "there is no public roadmap for new features at this time but software development is ongoing". It's not a lie either, Karen comes in twice a week to fix some bugs. Anyway, it's mostly just statistics and some weird memory-management stuff that no-one cares about that's missing. And it's just twice the price of our direct competitor's product, which is soo much louder.

It's a great day, it's just a little sad that our social media manager quit today because he "couldn't take the abuse anymore". Some guy calling himself balnazzar was spamming rants everywhere about how the new scope "has really bad price/performance" and is "useless because it doesn't have basic features" and that he would rather use a rusty nail and a light bulb.

* I originally wanted to write a serious post about thermal design but I am currently home sick and may not quite be my normal boring self. There is stilll a serious point here: nothing is free, there are almost always trade-offs.

Ahahhahaah brilliant!! Love it! :-DD
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Online mawyatt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4117
  • Country: us
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2022, 03:01:11 pm »
Well, let's say we were designing a budget oscilloscope and our market research found that suddenly absolutely no one wants to buy anything with a noisy fan anymore (although for some reason most of the survey participants had the same IP address based in Italy, weird that). So we decide to make silent operation a prime design goal and "go to town". Good thermal design is free after all, right? So what do we do?
.............
* I originally wanted to write a serious post about thermal design but I am currently home sick and may not quite be my normal boring self. There is stilll a serious point here: nothing is free, there are almost always trade-offs.

Sounds very similar to a group of folks discussing a high performance custom chip design, with none have ever designed a chip or likely high performance anything before, yet somehow are self proclaimed "experts" in such :o

Couple of cases in point:

About 4 decades ago we were tasked with designing a passive portable remote sensing chemical agent detector for battlefield use. A part of the spec was altered to require surviving a Point Blank Thermal Nuclear Detonation!! Common sense says, which we unsuccessfully argued, who really cares about a potential chemical attack when you've just been nuked, and everything left standing is highly radioactive |O

We passed the test (blast Heat and Pressure Wavefront and EMP), and his single requirement likely tripled the instrument cost!!

Another case involved a custom CMOS specialized ADC chip on a custom hybrid, a special requirement invoked was the hybrid had to survive a discharge from 25KV at 500 ohm source impedance, yep 50 amps peak!! This was likely someone that found the Body CMOS ESD spec and decided to "augment" it to make the system better. We passed, but the others involved didn't, eventually the spec was reduced to the usual CMOS ESD spec so the others could deliver their part of the system.

Anyway, randomly tossed around specs can significantly drive the development and production cost and need to be carefully evaluated before invoking!!

Best,
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 

Offline Martin.M

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 970
  • Country: de
  • in Tek we trust
    • vintage Tek collection
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2022, 03:20:09 pm »
1623403-0
 

Offline balnazzar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2022, 04:34:54 pm »
Well, let's say we were designing a budget oscilloscope and our market research found that suddenly absolutely no one wants to buy anything with a noisy fan anymore (although for some reason most of the survey participants had the same IP address based in Italy, weird that). So we decide to make silent operation a prime design goal and "go to town". Good thermal design is free after all, right? So what do we do?
- massive custom heatsinks help; they are also expensive and require mechanical support
- bigger, slower fans are a lot quieter; and you will probably need to design a new, bigger case to fit them
- well, if we are designing a new case and have new injection moulds made, at least we can re-design for better airflow as well (maybe hire a specialist?)
- oh no, the PSU has minimum airflow requirements we don't meet anymore; well, not to despair, we just get a more expensive one with higher-rated parts; or, how about a custom one that integrates nicely with our new case, I mean how much can that really cost?
- our main board may now run a bit hotter, that may be bad for realibility. Oh well, let's order some Nichicon 105°C caps and use the Crapxxon stockpile for something else instead.
- we also have a potential for larger temperature-gradients in the frontend now; may need to loosen some of the specs a bit? Or find some lower TC parts?
- the old model had a lot of headroom when it comes to cooling really, we figured "better safe than sorry" and were fairly confident it would be able to take almost anything customers would throw at it even with the vents all clogged up after a couple of years; we're flying a lot closer to the sun now but we'll just do really thorough environmental testing, so we will be fine

Fast forward to the launch date... Well, it was tough, but we made it.  :phew: Ok, kinda. There were a lot of delays because of all the custom parts and the re-designs. Also the bike-shedding in design review meetings, everyone is a bloody expert in thermal design now, it was basically like reddit in there, soo annoying. And there was that embarassing incident when a prototype set a customer's lab on fire. But the software people say the fan-control bug is fixed now.  :-// So some minor features didn't get done in time and we moved most of the devs over to the new spectrum analyzer project. We just tell customers that "there is no public roadmap for new features at this time but software development is ongoing". It's not a lie either, Karen comes in twice a week to fix some bugs. Anyway, it's mostly just statistics and some weird memory-management stuff that no-one cares about that's missing. And it's just twice the price of our direct competitor's product, which is soo much louder.

It's a great day, it's just a little sad that our social media manager quit today because he "couldn't take the abuse anymore". Some guy calling himself balnazzar was spamming rants everywhere about how the new scope "has really bad price/performance" and is "useless because it doesn't have basic features" and that he would rather use a rusty nail and a light bulb.

* I originally wanted to write a serious post about thermal design but I am currently home sick and may not quite be my normal boring self. There is stilll a serious point here: nothing is free, there are almost always trade-offs.

Well, isn't this a gigantic spamming rant from someone who has half my # of posts (and I came here literally the other day), and either is some kind of minus habens or a person that intentionally pretends not to understand, and makes out of place use of hyperbolas. Rarely I've read posts so bestrewn with fallacies, but mainly https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

Simply read or watch any review of the R&S RTB2000. It's barely audible. Same price of its A-brand competitors, or a bit less. Same size.

Does this simple observation provide a reply to your long list of silly and ill-articulated points?


Ahahhahaah brilliant!! Love it! :-DD

Some prefer to behave not like the average high-school bully, but like his follower, the cowardly one.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 04:45:04 pm by balnazzar »
 

Offline pdenisowski

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 929
  • Country: us
  • Product Management Engineer, Rohde & Schwarz
    • Test and Measurement Fundamentals Playlist on the R&S YouTube channel
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2022, 04:52:04 pm »
The same stands for the VESA mount. How does it cost to drill four holes in the back and make it just a bit more sturdy? Nothing.

The scope wouldn't get in your way, and its use would be 10X more ergonomic.

But no. I'm asking too much.

We actually included a VESA mount on the new MXO4 oscilloscope :)
Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 

Offline balnazzar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2022, 04:59:33 pm »
The same stands for the VESA mount. How does it cost to drill four holes in the back and make it just a bit more sturdy? Nothing.

The scope wouldn't get in your way, and its use would be 10X more ergonomic.

But no. I'm asking too much.

We actually included a VESA mount on the new MXO4 oscilloscope :)

That's great (seriously). But the MXO4 is not really a scope that private customers can buy.. At least not a good 99% of them.
 

Offline balnazzar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2022, 05:01:13 pm »
Please add VESA holes to the next iteration of the RTB2000 (or however it'll be called).
 

Offline pdenisowski

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 929
  • Country: us
  • Product Management Engineer, Rohde & Schwarz
    • Test and Measurement Fundamentals Playlist on the R&S YouTube channel
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2022, 05:12:26 pm »
There is a bit of a point in the fan noise level being absurd. For just a little more money they could implement fan control and use fans that are less noisy.

Simply read or watch any review of the R&S RTB2000. It's barely audible.

Despite being screaming fast (4.5M waverforms /sec) the new MXO4 is also whisper quiet - like, "is it on?" quiet.  We're very proud of that :)

As a T&M instrument manufacturer, we get a LOT of feedback about acoustic levels:  you might be surprised how important "quiet" is to a lot of customers.  Over time, I think (audio) noise level is going to become a much more important differentiator when it comes to instrument purchases.


Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 
The following users thanked this post: jasonRF, balnazzar

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28429
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2022, 05:17:10 pm »
Simply read or watch any review of the R&S RTB2000. It's barely audible.

Despite being screaming fast (4.5M waverforms /sec) the new MXO4 is also whisper quiet - like, "is it on?" quiet.  We're very proud of that :)

As a T&M instrument manufacturer, we get a LOT of feedback about acoustic levels:  you might be surprised how important "quiet" is to a lot of customers.  Over time, I think (audio) noise level is going to become a much more important differentiator when it comes to instrument purchases.
I agree. Nowadays test equipment that has huge fans + noise is just a no-go. A couple of decades ago I brought my own (huge) Tektronix DAS9200 logic analyser to work. I set it up on my desk and turned it on. My co-worker that sat across my desk wasn't happy because the huge amount of air coming from the back of the logic analyser blew all the papers from his desk quickly.

As I'm a getting a bit older I also start to become more annoyed by noisy equipment. Typically I don't want to have equipment with fans on longer than strictly necessary.

edit: typo
« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 05:45:49 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: balnazzar

Offline pdenisowski

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 929
  • Country: us
  • Product Management Engineer, Rohde & Schwarz
    • Test and Measurement Fundamentals Playlist on the R&S YouTube channel
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2022, 05:22:21 pm »
Please add VESA holes to the next iteration of the RTB2000 (or however it'll be called).

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rtb2004-vesa-mod/msg4222681/#msg4222681

That's great (seriously). But the MXO4 is not really a scope that private customers can buy.. At least not a good 99% of them.

As a hobbyist and ham radio operator, I very much appreciate having access to instruments I could never, ever afford to buy with my own money.  That said, the thread was about where scopes and meters will be in 10 years, and I do feel fairly confident a lot of the "higher end" innovations will trickle down into the more (personally) affordable instruments.  I've been working in test and measurement for about 25 years now, and I'm perpetually amazed when I compare modern "entry level" instruments to "high end" instruments from a decade or two ago.


Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 
The following users thanked this post: balnazzar

Offline balnazzar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2022, 05:22:54 pm »
There is a bit of a point in the fan noise level being absurd. For just a little more money they could implement fan control and use fans that are less noisy.

Simply read or watch any review of the R&S RTB2000. It's barely audible.

Despite being screaming fast (4.5M waverforms /sec) the new MXO4 is also whisper quiet - like, "is it on?" quiet.  We're very proud of that :)

As a T&M instrument manufacturer, we get a LOT of feedback about acoustic levels:  you might be surprised how important "quiet" is to a lot of customers.  Over time, I think (audio) noise level is going to become a much more important differentiator when it comes to instrument purchases.

It's quite remarkable that we are hearing this from someone who works in manufacturing oscilloscopes. But the blokes above seem to have a hard time understanding ergonomics.
 

Offline BillyO

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1847
  • Country: ca
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2022, 05:32:59 pm »
Getting back to the question, we'll see further capability and features make it into "entry level" instruments but the entry level won't change that much.  Scopes will still cost $400, but they may offer 12--14 bits, 2Gsa/s or 200MHz and 4ch at the base level.  On the DMM side we might see 5.5 digits and 4W ohms for under $300, 6.5 digits for $500. Along those lines.
Bill  (Currently a Siglent fanboy)
--------------------------------------------------
 
The following users thanked this post: Markus2801A

Offline JPortici

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3573
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2022, 05:34:00 pm »
Where do i see scopes and DMMs in 10 years...

Lecroy had a really expensive scope with detachable screen. I've read somewhere here that it was a disaster, but i think that will be one of the things of the future: a more than decent acquisition module coupled with a screen. Together they look like a scope, but you can separate the screen from the acquisition module and see everything and interact realtime via a really high speed radio link. Wired connection too, maybe. So what lecory tried, but better and affordable. Reason is bench space, having to insulate between the user and the DUT, DUT being not really accessible. An evolution of todays tablet/portable scopes

We already have wireless multimeters with some basic scope functionality, but of course you are constrained by BLE bandwidth and the fact that you're running an app on a phone.
 

Offline balnazzar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: it
Re: Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2022, 05:36:30 pm »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rtb2004-vesa-mod/msg4222681/#msg4222681

I thought about that a lot. My only worry was (other than the warranty) that the plastic would break as time passes. If there is space for another metal laminate shield on the *inside*, I think it's doable and the plastic enclosure won't break.

Other random thoughts...:
I don't know how the airflow is directed in R&S scopes, but on a brand I know a bit better the fan blows from the inside towards the outside of the scope.
This has major disadvantages:
1. A smaller amount of air will blog through the components (perhaps contrarily to intuition).
2. The inside of the scope will have a negative pressure (that is, will suckle in air from any opening no matter how small). This renders filtering the fan vitually impossible. In time, dust and grime will accumulate upon the pcb, the caps, the heatsinks, the chips.. Thus reducing the thermal efficiency and the reliability of the instrument.
3. OTOH, a fan blowing towards the inside of the instrument can be easily filtered (just place a Demciflex filter on its vent) and will create a positive pressure into the scope, thus keeping dust&grime accumulation away.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf