Which Frequency Counter >1.0 GHz?

[davefr]

I'd like a frequency counter that can go up to 1.0GHz and my budget is <$200.  I see used working HP/Agilent (5386), Fluke (7220) and BK (1856) models for around $150.   Would one of these brands be a better choice then others?  My other option is a no name new Chinese unit for around $90.  (same generic unit under many brand names like Victor).  Anyone have an opinion on the sweet spot for affordable frequency counters for a hobbyist?

[Grandchuck]

https://m0wgf.blogspot.com/2020/05/bg7tbl-fa-2-frequency-counter-review.html

I have one and like it.  A used HP or Fluke would also be good.  There are some cheap ones out there that might serve well?

[edavid]

I'd like a frequency counter that can go up to 1.0GHz and my budget is <$200.  I see used working HP/Agilent (5386), Fluke (7220) and BK (1856) models for around $150.   Would one of these brands be a better choice then others?  My other option is a no name new Chinese unit for around $90.  (same generic unit under many brand names like Victor).  Anyone have an opinion on the sweet spot for affordable frequency counters for a hobbyist?

The HP 5386A is much better than the other models you mention (and usually much more expensive).  The only issue is the non-backlit LCD display.  You could also consider the HP 5315A/B or 5316A/B, but make sure they have the Channel C option.

The FA-2 does seem like a good choice also, if you don't mind the hard to read display and lack of service info.

Here's the main (?) thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/bg7tbl-fa1-frequency-analyzer/

[bob91343]

Try this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112496554781?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D234213%26meid%3D61853583708647c1b89800832723ca94%26pid%3D101113%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D353671362210%26itm%3D112496554781%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2563228.c101113.m2108

I have one and it works great.

[Electro Fan]

+1 for the HP 5315A if you can find one in good condition with the option C, but it will probably be easier to just go for a new FA-2 on eBay.  The FA-2 is very compact compared to the HP; it's display is not real large but it is readable.  I have both and could live with either one but it's nice to have two counters to compare results. 

Another option is a HP 5327B (especially if you like Nixie tubes) and if you can live with somewhat less than 1 GHz.  There is a HP 5386A on eBay now with a Buy It Now price of $193.99.  I have a similar vintage HP power meter with what looks like the same display as the 5386A and I'm not crazy about the display but I think what matters most is how accurate a counter is - which will be hard to know until you test it and to do that you will probably need another counter to compare it to.  Welcome to the Time Nuts slippery slope.

I just turned on the the HP 5327B (which is driven by a 10MHz BG7TBL GPSDO reference signal), the HP5315A (which has no input for a GPSDO reference signal), and the FA-2 (which is also driven by the 10MHz BG7TBL GPSDO reference).  I fed the inputs to all 3 counters with the output of a Leo Bodnar GPSDO signal which was set for 49.152MHz.  The HP 5227B reads 49152000, the HP5315A reads 49152004 (but it seems to need a long time to warm up), and the FA-2 reads 49151999.99715 or thereabouts.  It's important not to confuse resolution with accuracy and sometimes more resolution just provides something between uncertainty and confusion - but if we just want to be reasonably accurate we can probably round the FA-2 from 49151999.99whatever to 49152000. 

With counters you have to factor in warm-up time, changing ambient temps, gate time, averaging, and maybe some other stuff.  If you just want to order up a counter and be close enough for most hobbyist work and not take up much bench space the FA-2 is probably the way to fly.


PS, one other thing that I find useful on the FA-2 is the ability to measure power.

From the published specs:

Introduction of CH1: 
- CH1 Frequency: 1Hz-200MHz
- CH1 Input Impedance: 50 OHM/1M OHM

CH1 Input Sensitivity Reference:
- @50 OHM: 25mVrms-2Vrms
- @1MR: 25mVrms-2Vrms

CH1 Frequency Accuracy:
- 0.1s Gate Time: 0.001Hz@10M
- 1s Gate Time: 0.0001Hz@10M
- 10s Gate Time: 0.00001Hz@10M
             
- CH1 Test Speed: 11 bits/second@10MHz
- CH1 Power Test Range: -50DBM to +20DBM, 1M to 550M@50 OHM
- CH1 Power Test Accuracy: 0.5DB@10MHz
- CH1 Connector Type: BNC

Introduction of CH2:
- CH2 Frequency: 30MHz-6GHz
- CH2 Input Impedance: 50 OHM

CH2 Frequency Accuracy:
- 0.1s Gate Time: 1Hz@1GHz
- 1s Gate Time: 0.01 Hz @1GHz
- 10s Gate Time: 0.001 Hz @1GHz
           
- CH2 Input Power: -20dBM to +13dBm@0.5 to 5G
- CH2 Connector Type: SMA


PSS, Having said all that, bob91343's $9.42 (plus $3.50 shipping) eBay product looks like a deal.  You could probably start with that and if you feel the need to compare it to something else you could buy another one the same product (or buy two at the same time and maybe they will combine shipping), and for #3 you could go for a FA-2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segal%27s_law


edit:  typos fixed

[edavid]

Try this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112496554781

The problem with those boards is that they won't count below 100kHz.  Not really suitable for the lab bench.  Of course we don't know what OP has in mind.

[bob91343]

I just tested my little board and it worked down to 1 kHz and probably lower.  The trick is to change the gate time, and that's not well documented.  If you keep the gate time long it alternates between two readings, a bit of schizophrenia.

All in all, it's certainly a bargain for just a few bucks.  The master oscillator is temperature compensated and the specs are something like 25 ppm.  Not great but for casual measurements it's okay.  Sensitivity is around 50 mV or lower.

[bdunham7]

Why do you need a frequency counter?  I'm not saying you don't, just pointing out that it isn't a universal need and that without knowing what you want it for it's hard to give guidance.

The BK 1856D model is plain but good, but I doubt you'll find it for $150.  Earlier 1856 models are a bit primitive.  The BK 1823A is also good, but again not usually $150.

If you want a reciprocal counter, the HP 5315/5316B type are excellent but only go to 1.3GHz if they have the prescaler input, otherwise they top out around 180MHz.  If you don't know the difference between reciprocal counters and straight gated counters, research that a bit. 

[bob91343]

My HP 5328A is great, up to a few hundred MHz.

[nctnico]

I'd like a frequency counter that can go up to 1.0GHz and my budget is <$200.  I see used working HP/Agilent (5386), Fluke (7220) and BK (1856) models for around $150.   Would one of these brands be a better choice then others?  My other option is a no name new Chinese unit for around $90.  (same generic unit under many brand names like Victor).  Anyone have an opinion on the sweet spot for affordable frequency counters for a hobbyist?

What kind of accuracy do you need? For general purpose use the Victor units are just fine. IIRC there is a thread about these on this forum. I think I have one of these counters myself.

[Electro Fan]

Here is the FA-2 trying to throw as many digits as it can at measuring a 49,152,000 Hz signal supplied by a Leo Bodnar GPSDO.  Both the HP 5327B and the FA-2 are taking a 10 MHz reference clock signal from a BG7TBL GPSDO.

[davefr]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm going to try one of the cheap Victor style meters from Amazon.  They look pretty compact, budget friendly and easy to use for a hobbyist.  If not, back it goes. 

[edavid]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm going to try one of the cheap Victor style meters from Amazon.  They look pretty compact, budget friendly and easy to use for a hobbyist.  If not, back it goes.

Did you read the reviews?  It sounds nightmarish:

After connecting the 10MHz oscillator to the Risepro, it became painfully clear the Risepro is is an inferior, LOW-resolution counter circuit with non-intuitive controls, packaged in a nice box, and hyped with specifications that are completely misleading. The absolute best resolution I could achieve with the 10MHz oscillator was 10Hz, and that was with an excruciatingly slow gate time. I went through the instructions point by point, and found them inadequate, especially in regards to "Modes 1, 2, and 3." It was easy to get the counter into a state where the reading was 20MHz or some other obviously incorrect value. If I were reading a true unknown frequency, rather than a known oscillator, I would be lost.

I never did achieve even a 1Hz resolution. There is no range setting, that function being tied to the setting of the gate time control. The control lacks graduations, so resolution and gate time are both a guess. I now believe the only way to get 0.01Hz resolution is to measure a very low frequency with the gate control set to maximum, and then wait a minute or two for a couple of count cycles and a stable reading.

[davefr]

I agree the reviews are a mixed bag.  But with free returns, it's worth a try.  I'm sure the old stuff from HP, Tek, and Fluke was much better built but you have old technology and components that are decades old and could be problematic. (ex: caps) The FA-2 looks interesting but the interface doesn't look very intuitive and the display looks poor.  The modules look interesting but then you have to build a complete unit. 

[Electro Fan]

I agree the reviews are a mixed bag.  But with free returns, it's worth a try.  I'm sure the old stuff from HP, Tek, and Fluke was much better built but you have old technology and components that are decades old and could be problematic. (ex: caps) The FA-2 looks interesting but the interface doesn't look very intuitive and the display looks poor.  The modules look interesting but then you have to build a complete unit.

The displayed numerics and alphas are not large but clearly readable. 

The UI is plenty intuitive.  There are three buttons:  Mode, Gate, RST (Reset)

The display provides info in two different modes, just toggle with the mode button.  One mode (see attachment below) provides the basics (counter and power info), the other (see previous attachment above) provides stats (average, min, max, peak to peak, etc).

The gate button offers 3 toggles between 10 seconds, 1 second, and 0.1 second.

The RST button provides one button push reset.

Pretty short learning curve.

Plus, the FA-2 takes an external reference clock - someday you might like to use that.

[fourfathom]

Plus, the FA-2 takes an external reference clock - someday you might like to use that.

That's why I got one, and it works very well.  Also, it can put the internal OCXO out on the rear BNC jack, and this is a reasonably stable 10 MHz clock source.

[davefr]

It turns out Amazon lost my order for the Victor style FC and sent me a refund.  I just ordered the FA-2.  It sounds like it'll do all I want and is still affordable.

[Ringmodulator]

I own the FA- 2 and later even bought the FA-3 with the bigger display. Pictures are in the main thread.

I think, that they are great general purpose tools as basic couters.

I like the high resolution on the shorter gate times, wich have still good accuracy.

For touchy alignments it is a real pain in the butt, if you have to wait 10s between each measurement as it was with my former Leader counter.

Throwing in a gpsdo for another 100 bucks or so, and I have my needs covered for a long time.

Chris