Which oscilloscope for hobbyist?

[Fungus]

Will I be able to see switch bounce noise?

Yes.

[tggzzz]

Now that my DS1054z is in transit, I realized I forgot to ask as important question: what sort of transient response should I expect from a digital oscilloscope?

Unless you have exotic applications (e.g. photon counting), everything is analogue[1]. Digital circuits merely interpret analogue signals in a quantised fashion - usually but not always binary.

The principal measure of a scope's performance is the bandwidth of its analogue front end measured in Hz, which includes amplifiers, filters and (where appropriate) sampler. The number of samples per second is, to a large extent, a marketing tool.

Yes, I do realise that one of the fundamental limitations on shrinking transistors is that they get too small to contain "enough" electrons at any instant - and so their operation becomes probabilistic.

[gojimmypi]

thanks for the replies on transient response. although the timestamps don't show it, I woke up at 2:00am (!) with a sudden thought of not just reconstructing waveforms, but what happens with the unexpected glitch and how a digital oscilloscope might handle those noise spikes. I ended up finding and reading this article:

Sin(x)/x interpolation: an important aspect of proper oscilloscope measurements
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272526

Well, the new scope should arrive tomorrow... I'm anxiously awaiting a chance to take it for a test drive! I'm interested in any suggestions on tests for proper operation. thanks!

[tautech]

Sin(x)/x interpolation: an important aspect of proper oscilloscope measurements
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272526

It is and it isn't.
With a fast enough sampling rate Dot mode is more accurate.

Well, the new scope should arrive tomorrow... I'm anxiously awaiting a chance to take it for a test drive! I'm interested in any suggestions on tests for proper operation. thanks!

Let's hope you made the right decision. 

See if you can add to this list:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-(ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models)-bugswish-list/

[alsetalokin4017]

One feature of the 1054z that I really like is the "Pass-Fail" mask function. You can display a waveform, and generate a mask and squeeze it down so that it narrowly bounds the waveform, then "stop on fail" and any glitch that causes the waveform to exceed the boundary of the mask will stop the scope and save the glitch on screen.

For example:

[tautech]

One feature of the 1054z that I really like is the "Pass-Fail" mask function. You can display a waveform, and generate a mask and squeeze it down so that it narrowly bounds the waveform, then "stop on fail" and any glitch that causes the waveform to exceed the boundary of the mask will stop the scope and save the glitch on screen.

The DS1000 series mask performance is quite poor as rf-loop states here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/evaluating-oscilloscopes-for-best-waveform-update-rates/msg737860/#msg737860
BTW, he has one and has tested it.

[alsetalokin4017]

One feature of the 1054z that I really like is the "Pass-Fail" mask function. You can display a waveform, and generate a mask and squeeze it down so that it narrowly bounds the waveform, then "stop on fail" and any glitch that causes the waveform to exceed the boundary of the mask will stop the scope and save the glitch on screen.

The DS1000 series mask performance is quite poor as rf-loop states here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/evaluating-oscilloscopes-for-best-waveform-update-rates/msg737860/#msg737860
BTW, he has one and has tested it.

Well.... since I _want_ the scope to stop when it sees a glitch, I don't see the problem that rf-loop is complaining about. As I show in the video above, it works as I want it to work. YMMV of course.  It's a 400 dollar, low bandwidth scope. What does rf-loop expect for that price and performance level? The Siglent SDS2000 that he compares it to costs more than twice as much and its display doesn't look nearly as nice.

[gojimmypi]

One feature of the 1054z that I really like is the "Pass-Fail" mask function. You can display a waveform...

That's cool; How did you get such a crisp video of your 1054z screen?

[Wuerstchenhund]

Sin(x)/x interpolation: an important aspect of proper oscilloscope measurements
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272526

The article is 6 years old and from a time where cheap entry-level scopes didn't necessarily have sin(x)/x interpolation, but these days I doubt you'll find many that don't have it. Of course the basics discussed are still correct, but it fails to show the limitations of sin(x)/x, as certain conditions need to be met for it to produce a valid waveform.

Here's an (also older but still valid) paper discussing the limitations of interpolation:
http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/whitepapers/wp_interpolation_102203.pdf

[alsetalokin4017]

One feature of the 1054z that I really like is the "Pass-Fail" mask function. You can display a waveform...

That's cool; How did you get such a crisp video of your 1054z screen?

You're kidding, right? My old Panasonic video camera and the various transcoding and compressions used give me a pretty fuzzy video picture, not at all as nice as Dave's videos or others from more modern kit.
Oh... maybe you mean the screenshots toward the end of the video. Those are made by sticking a USB stick in the scope's hole and pressing the "print" button (under the Help button) which saves the screen as a .png (or .jpg) file to the stick. Then I insert the saved images into the video using the OpenShot nonlinear video editor on my Linux computer.

[rf-loop]

One feature of the 1054z that I really like is the "Pass-Fail" mask function. You can display a waveform, and generate a mask and squeeze it down so that it narrowly bounds the waveform, then "stop on fail" and any glitch that causes the waveform to exceed the boundary of the mask will stop the scope and save the glitch on screen.

The DS1000 series mask performance is quite poor as rf-loop states here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/evaluating-oscilloscopes-for-best-waveform-update-rates/msg737860/#msg737860
BTW, he has one and has tested it.

Well.... since I _want_ the scope to stop when it sees a glitch, I don't see the problem that rf-loop is complaining about.

It works ok IF you use it as you told. But, if example want counter for pass and fail you can not trust at all this pass/fail ratio.
This is just as "know your equipment limits" for avoid mistakes.

[nbritton]

I just got my MSO2072A in the mail and the one thing that stands out the most is the 8 inch screen is too small. I have the scope stilling at the back of my desk and the fonts on the screen are so small that you can barely read the words. I have to squint and move in just to decipher what's on the screen. Very annoying, I'd hate to see what it looked like on the DS1054Z because that one only has a 7 inch screen.

Also within just a few hours of use I'm already frustrate that it doesn't have 4 channels.

[Howardlong]

I can sympathise: as a comparison, the 7" on the 1054Z is indeed small: I generally like high density, but this is a little extreme for daily use for me, but an acceptable compromise for portability in the field. The 9" on the MDO3000 I have I find just about perfect for bench use (same resolution as the 1000Z & DS/MSO2000 series at 800x480). At the other end of the scale, the Agilent 7000 I have is a 12" beast at 1024x768 and it's a bit like Duplo in comparison.

As a comparison, for quite some time for my main day to day scope I used up until quite recently an Agilent 54642D 2+16 MSO, even though I had a selection of other 4 channel scopes about, because the UI on those scopes is just so easy to use and responsive. For almost all I did it was fine, but when messing with things like SMPS, I found I missed the extra analogue channels, and I had a 54622D hooked up to the trigger permanently in case I needed it. By the way, the wavefrom display on those scopes is 1000x255 inside a 7" 4:3 CRT, it is always super clear, but there's a lot less unnecessary chrome and other clutter on the screen than the Rigols, but that's what people expect these days.

[Gixy]

I just got my MSO2072A in the mail and the one thing that stands out the most is the 8 inch screen is too small. I have the scope stilling at the back of my desk and the fonts on the screen are so small that you can barely read the words. I have to squint and move in just to decipher what's on the screen. Very annoying, I'd hate to see what it looked like on the DS1054Z because that one only has a 7 inch screen.

Also within just a few hours of use I'm already frustrate that it doesn't have 4 channels.

Hi,
As mentionned elsewhere in this forum, cases where you really need more than 2 analog channels are very rare. Don't forget that you have with your MSO2072A 16 digital channels with which you can observe the digital buses and discrete signals of your circuit.
Having also an MSO2072A (now MSO2302A...), I find only the measurement texts below the traces too small; furthermore, the character font used for those texts is less readable (Times New Roman or equivalent), and looks bad compared to others texts on the screen.
Don't worry, you have made a good choice and will have a lot of fun with this scope!
Denis

[khtwo2002]

I just got my MSO2072A in the mail and the one thing that stands out the most is the 8 inch screen is too small. I have the scope stilling at the back of my desk and the fonts on the screen are so small that you can barely read the words. I have to squint and move in just to decipher what's on the screen. Very annoying, I'd hate to see what it looked like on the DS1054Z because that one only has a 7 inch screen.

Also within just a few hours of use I'm already frustrate that it doesn't have 4 channels.

Dont know if this reading lens could help:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pocket-3X-A4-Full-Page-Magnifier-Sheet-Fresnel-Lens-Reading-Map-Magnifying-Loupe-/351293110162?hash=item51cab37792:g:71sAAOSw1vlUwK0e

[khtwo2002]

I just got my MSO2072A in the mail and the one thing that stands out the most is the 8 inch screen is too small. I have the scope stilling at the back of my desk and the fonts on the screen are so small that you can barely read the words. I have to squint and move in just to decipher what's on the screen. Very annoying, I'd hate to see what it looked like on the DS1054Z because that one only has a 7 inch screen.

Also within just a few hours of use I'm already frustrate that it doesn't have 4 channels.

Probably this one shows clearer about the magnifying effect
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XL-Full-Page-Magnifying-Sheet-Fresnel-Lens-3X-Magnification-Magnifier-UF-/161859864168?hash=item25af998668:g:RGkAAOSwl9BWINJO

[ornobian]

In my opinion, Rigol DS1054Z will be the winner of the hobbyist. You will like it.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Yup, you're gonna dig the 1054Z, best $300 I ever spent.