Author Topic: Which oscilloscope to choose hantek dso4102c, hantek dso5202p or rigol ds1054z?  (Read 2441 times)

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Offline Fungus

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::)
Meeting Nyquist with 3 channels active at rated and hacked BW is a basic requirement.

I think the only 'scope that meets that criteria under $1000 is the Rigol MSO5000.  :popcorn:

For the rest of us? We can turn a channel off and see if it makes a massive difference to the remaining two. If not, turn it back on and continue.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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DS1054Z... why? because its proven DSO that we can download its data to the PC and do useful stuffs. and because i and many others here own it. it has minor annoyance though such as slow GUI and math function, limited decode range etc. but isnt other brand have annoyance too? at least one i can certain is they are unproven or no record showing that their data can be downloaded to the PC to do useful stuffs.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Fungus

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DS1054Z... why? because its proven DSO that ... do useful stuffs.

Yep.

but isnt other brand have annoyance too?

Yes. The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
 

Offline luedno

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Hello I already researched a lot about these; rigol ds1054z and micsig to1104 and after much research I had no decision the two are well recommended. I would like to see more comments about them, this will help you decide.
 

Online tautech

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The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
::)
The perfect scope has not yet been made !
This is the part that people seem to forget.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
::)
The perfect scope has not yet been made !
This is the part that people seem to forget.
Agreed, not having to perform probe compensation when switching between vertical ranges is a basic requirement IMHO.
I'd like to make the world a better place but they won't give me the source code
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
::)
The perfect scope has not yet been made !
This is the part that people seem to forget.
Agreed, not having to perform probe compensation when switching between vertical ranges is a basic requirement IMHO.
i think they exist, but not in $400 range. we are not aiming at perfect scope on that price range, but bang per buck, or features or capabilities per unit dollar. Siglent scope has deeper FFT built-in, but that can be compensated with downloading data to PC from DS1000Z, and then do 24M points FFT, which is way way ahead of what Siglent capable of (1Mpts FFT) albeit cute and charming built-in the DSO unit (standalone). with raw data at hand (PC), countless tools can be emulated such as bode plotter, impedance analyzer, full memory serial decoder etc. coupled with FG and some simple setup/rig/circuit, VSWR, or possibly S11/S21 etc. more advance feature not available in 6 figure price comes to mind such as probe impedance effect compensator, where with knowledge of probe (or with DSO) input impedance, we can cancel out the effect using inverse FFT (compensation or de-compensation whatever term you like in frequency domain) to get back or estimate original signal in time domain as if probe is not connected to hence not loaded by it.

but since this may never come into a person's imagination, so it would not matter and in the end they can choose or google the best feature DSO they like, buy it and be happy forever about it. having said all this, this is not actually trying to prove my point or give an absolutist opinion, this is actually a challenge to those other brands to prove that their scope can do this one thing (data can be transferred to PC) i saw a programming guide for Siglent scope to download data, but no one ever build one practical or useful PC tool for it to really prove that it can be done. until that time, Rigol is the only one in the recommended list. if they prove it, i'm willing to put their brand in my recommended list. a mumbling from a person from hobby SW development background. but if you are not interested in SW development, then it wouldnt matter a rat arse anyway.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline rodpp

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Considering that you will have to pay taxes buying overseas, and that tax can be more than 100% (60% of import tax over price plus shipping costs, and 20-30% of ICMS calculated over that final price with all taxes), in my opinion it is better to buy locally and be protected by Brazilian consumers law.

I did that some years ago, and bought from the Getrotech store: https://www.getrotech.com.br/loja/ds1054z.html

They offer 3 years of warranty and you can pay in 12x.

I have no affiliation with that store, only bought there one scope and one function generator.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 11:55:05 am by rodpp »
 
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Offline luedno

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the risks are really great i got interested in this micsig to1104 but the price that will cost me will not be better cost benefit.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 01:22:06 pm by luedno »
 

Online rsjsouza

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the risks are really great i got interested in this micsig to1104 but the price that will cost me will not be better cost benefit.
As I mentioned before and reiterated by rodpp; the local purchase will be helpful if something goes wrong, even if you pay more.

One additional detail: as you get more familiarized with the model you choose, you may find it has limitations that require something different or better. This does not need to be the oscilloscope you will use forever.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online rsjsouza

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Nico, my beef is with your umbrella assertive about recommending Rigol - local distribution is just one element. 
My beef is with people blindly recommending the DS1054Z without looking how the world has moved on.
Boundary conditions... Boundary conditions... Sure, the world has moved on to higher standards, thus I wouldn't suggest this model to someone that could have everything crossing the border without a 100% taxation on finished goods, the occasional processing time given by the customs agency that can vary anywhere between two weeks and six months, the guarantee that almost any credit card claim is made in favour of the customer, the local mail enters into general strike every quarter... Too much risk.

It is almost like an unvoluntary knee-yerk reaction.
Look, you are usually well mannered, knowledgeable and centered guy, and I appreciate the plethora of information you provide around here. But when the subject is scopes and anyone has the audacity to suggest the DS1054Z or the various Siglent models... Take cover!  :scared:
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Online tautech

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It is almost like an unvoluntary knee-yerk reaction.
But when the subject is scopes and anyone has the audacity to suggest the DS1054Z or the various Siglent models... Take cover!  :scared:
It appears you don't think we experienced users are sufficiently qualified to offer scope selection advice ?  :-//

Might I remind you some of us do this everyday outside this forum so what makes this forum any more special than the real world ? ?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Online nctnico

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It is almost like an unvoluntary knee-yerk reaction.
Look, you are usually well mannered, knowledgeable and centered guy, and I appreciate the plethora of information you provide around here. But when the subject is scopes and anyone has the audacity to suggest the DS1054Z or the various Siglent models... Take cover!  :scared:
You are too emotional over my statement. Just put the DS1054Z next to other options in the same price bracket yourself and you'll see it is getting old. And did I say anything bad about the Siglent scopes mentioned? No. Because from the information on this forum it seems Siglent has improved a lot where it comes to firmware development.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fungus

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You are too emotional over my statement. Just put the DS1054Z next to other options in the same price bracket yourself and you'll see it is getting old.development.

Doesn't mean it'll be worn out when you buy one.

It can still greatly empower people who don't have an oscilloscope at all or who really can't stretch the extra 50% that a Siglent costs (or can't get on in their area...)
 

Online nctnico

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You are too emotional over my statement. Just put the DS1054Z next to other options in the same price bracket yourself and you'll see it is getting old.development.

Doesn't mean it'll be worn out when you buy one.

It can still greatly empower people who don't have an oscilloscope at all or who really can't stretch the extra 50% that a Siglent costs (or can't get on in their area...)
There are other options which cost like 10% to 20% extra.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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There are other options which cost like 10% to 20% extra.
thats very helpful.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline rf-loop

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The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
::)
The perfect scope has not yet been made !
This is the part that people seem to forget.
Agreed, not having to perform probe compensation when switching between vertical ranges is a basic requirement IMHO.
Siglent scope has deeper FFT built-in, but that can be compensated with downloading data to PC from DS1000Z, and then do 24M points FFT, which is way way ahead of what Siglent capable of (1Mpts FFT) albeit cute and charming built-in the DSO unit (standalone).

Not start debate about differences (all is here in forum already)  and so on... both have pros and cons even today when DS1kZ is bit aged.

But if use this single argument for Rigol then it is more fair also handle Siglent with same argument. 24M vs 14M points externally processed FFT. Of course it is still less than Rigol but who can claim anymore that it is way way ahead of what Siglent capable of and if we then take also noise to account.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 10:58:00 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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But if use this single argument for Rigol then it is more fair also handle Siglent with same argument. 24M vs 14M points externally processed FFT. Of course it is still less than Rigol but who can claim anymore that it is way way ahead of what Siglent capable of and if we then take also noise to account.
i was talking the 1Mpts Siglent built in FFT vs Rigol 24Mpts external FFT. the problem is, no one has ever proved that possible... to download data to PC from Siglent scope, and do some processing to entertain us. if someone can show me PC software link or youtube demo, my next upgrade will be Siglent brand, but wait... 24Mpts is almost twice the 14Mpts, so it will be a hard decision. about the noise, no DSO will ever satisfy crave for lower noise, esp 8 bits DSO? 10,16,24bits DSO still cost a fortune, so in time we have to look for another tool suitable for the job, such as Spectrum Analyzer, the TEA is inevitable.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Fungus

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Not start debate about differences (all is here in forum already)  and so on... both have pros and cons even today when DS1kZ is bit aged.

The point I try to make is: The Rigol DS1054Z is still a solid choice and shouldn't be rejected out of hand. They're still the cheapest option that gets you a "real" oscilloscope, they're solidly built and they're capable enough for most people.

They're also easy to source just about anywhere (unlike GW-Insteks, whose pricees and availability vary wildly).

Arguing over FFTs seems particularly pointless. Most people's needs simply don't require that.

Would I pay more than $25 extra and/or get into a difficult after-sales situation just for a better response on the vertical position control? No, and I'm sure that's the only real difference I'd see in everyday use.

I also like having a row of buttons down the left side for turning on measurements. I'm sure I'd miss those if I went with a brand that made me drill down into sub-menus with the twisty knob to do the same thing.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 02:17:55 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Arguing over FFTs seems particularly pointless. Most people's needs simply don't require that.
so with this. Rigol will be the last in recommended list due to its retarded laggy GUI. buy another DSO other than Rigol. there is no point arguing this DSO has a little bit more memory etc, i seldomly require long memory when looking at signal during circuit debugging. combined with its super laggy GUI, scrolling long memory in zoom or whatever will be super PITA anyway.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline rf-loop

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Not start debate about differences (all is here in forum already)  and so on... both have pros and cons even today when DS1kZ is bit aged.

The point I try to make is: The Rigol DS1054Z is still a solid choice and shouldn't be rejected out of hand (1). They're still the cheapest option that gets you a "real" oscilloscope, they're solidly built and they're capable enough (2) for most people.

1) Yes.
2) ...for some peoples or for "many" peoples.

What is "real" oscilloscope I do not know due to lack of enough knowledge and quite short, barely just over 50 years, experience with some kind of oscilloscopes. But oscilloscope (555) what weight over 50kg feels perhaps "real" when 2 peoples carry it and running..
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Fungus

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The point I try to make is: The Rigol DS1054Z is still a solid choice and shouldn't be rejected out of hand (1). They're still the cheapest option that gets you a "real" oscilloscope, they're solidly built and they're capable enough (2) for most people.

1) Yes.
2) ...for some peoples or for "many" peoples.

Many.

Don't confuse these forums for the real world. In the real world the DS1054Z is king of sales.

Guess what the #1 seller is on Batronix right now? It's the Rigol DS1052E...  :popcorn:

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/DSO.html    (sort by "position")

Anybody calling the DS1054Z "too old" is out of touch with reality.  :-DD
 
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Offline uargo

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In my modest opinion, he will say that Rigol is quite good for its price, but if I stick to the parameters, in Spain:
The Rigol DS1054Z costs € 400 with taxes included.
The Siglent SDS1104x-e costs € 510 with taxes included.
The price difference is € 100, it is 25% and not 50% with they say out there.
If we have to hack the two oscilloscopes, we get:

Rigol 4 channels, 100Mhz and serial decoders, for € 400.

Siglent 4 channels, 200Mhz, serial decoders, Wifi, AWG license (option to expand to AWG) and MSO license (option to expand to MSO), for € 510.

And if we enter into technical characteristics:

Siglent is better than Rigol in:

Siglent has 2 Adc of 1Gs, being able to work the 4 channels at 500Ms
Rigol has 1 Adc of 1Gs, being able to work the 4 channels at 250Ms

Siglent Wfm = ​​100,000, up to 400,000 in segmented memory.
Rigol Wfm = ​​30,000.

Siglent has 14Mb x 2, that is 14Mbs per 2 channels = 28Mbs.
Rigol has 24Mb.

Siglent has FFT of 1Mp, really usable and reliable.
Rigol has a toy FFT.

Siglent has SFRA or Bode Plot with an AWG (any AWG from Siglent works).

Siglent has Wifi, remote control by web, option to expand to AWG and MSO.

Siglent moves faster in the menus because of its more modern hardware.

Siglent has functions of tables and markers in FFT and serial decoding, etc. They really help a lot.

With this I do not say that Rigol is a bad option, much less, but if seeing its technical characteristics the Siglent is one step above the Rigol, and the price is also a step above.

It all depends on whether you want or can spend those extra € 100.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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@uargo

That's a fair summary of capabilities but you're missing a parameter; how well does the OEM stand behind their products?

I bought a brand new 2-channel Siglent SDS1202X-E scope (that had a claimed 3 year warranty) in early 2018. That scope was in a batch that had hardware issues (the probe compensation problem) caused by missing capacitors on the front end and the US Siglent organization refused to allow me to do a return offering instead to send me the missing capacitors so I could take it apart and fit them myself!  After a multi-letter battle with the Siglent US Sales Manager, I eventually got a full refund and bought my DS1054Z.

So there's that aspect to consider too.
I'd like to make the world a better place but they won't give me the source code
 

Offline uargo

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yours is a punctual case, it is not the usual thing that also happens to all brands including Rigol
 


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