EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: luedno on September 07, 2019, 03:10:27 pm
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good morning I am looking for oscilloscope for purchase I took several readings and summarized the three oscilloscopes that were within my budget are:
hantek dso4102c 100mhz hantek dso5202p 200mhz both at about the same value, a bit more expensive the rigol ds1054z, which would be a good choice?
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I among those three, I would always choose Rigol DS1054z ;D ;D
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It all depends on what is your budget and what you need it for. I have the Rigol and have used the Hantek. There is no discussion that the ds1054z is a better scope, but it is more expensive and hard to source in Brazil.
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Do you need 4 channels? Get the Rigol. If not, then get one of the 2 channel scopes.
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I do not need the 4 channels, I found the rigol being sold by AliExpress but with stock here in Brazil my budget reaches it, as I will use for maintenance any of the three I think would suit me. Rigol here in Brazil being sold for 2,000.00, dso4102c and dso5202p on AliExpress for 1350.00 each outside customs duty if taxed. it would be better to get the rigol soon
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What do you want to use an oscilloscope for? If it is for repair then 2 channels will do. If you are designing circuits then I would definitely try to get a 4 channel oscilloscope.
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maintenance on led tvs, automotive modules, audio amplifiers, noteboock, digital satellite receivers.
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On such equipment, monitoring an SPI bus may be beneficial once in a while. In this case, the four channels will come in handy.
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MicSig TO1074 no doubt!
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On such equipment, monitoring an SPI bus may be beneficial once in a while. In this case, the four channels will come in handy.
I don't think so. Decoding won't help much for fault finding in existing equipment. Looking at whether the signals are OK in the analog domain is enough. The cheapest option will probably do just fine.
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On such equipment, monitoring an SPI bus may be beneficial once in a while. In this case, the four channels will come in handy.
I don't think so. Decoding won't help much for fault finding in existing equipment. Looking at whether the signals are OK in the analog domain is enough. The cheapest option will probably do just fine.
good settings fits my job?
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I don't think so. Decoding won't help much for fault finding in existing equipment. Looking at whether the signals are OK in the analog domain is enough. The cheapest option will probably do just fine.
...but 200MHz is better than 100Mhz for this.
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Very, very few people need a 200 MHz scope...
@luedno: A MicSig TO1074 is the best buy !
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Very, very few people need a 200 MHz scope...
But if they're the same price, then... :-//
(although check the features and number of firmware bugs before deciding)
@luedno: A MicSig TO1074 is the best buy !
But way over budget.
Everything costs much more and is harder to get in Brazil.
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Only 30 euros is the difference:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-TO1074.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-TO1074.html)
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html)
The MicSig is a much much better scope.
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And there's also this STO1104C for 425 euros @ aliexpress. Says "Ships from Spain" => no import taxes. A scam maybe?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33007300314.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.71434c4dJAMYeh (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33007300314.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.71434c4dJAMYeh)
[attachimg=1]
Edit: Ok, I don't know about the availability of MicSigs in Brazil... but it would be the best buy if possible at all.
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The problem is, anything he imports to Brazil will be taxed in 100% (yeah it's crazy but it's true) so, a Rigol that costs "only" 400EUR will get to him at 800EUR (in fact more if you add shipping) and that is a lot of money here. And there will be no support if he needs it.
Local options are very limited, we have the known brands like Keysight and Tektronix but those are very expensive. Then you can find some Hanteks and a few Rigols through small distributors or old models made by OEM in China, rebadged by local companies and sold at a premium. Second hand market in non existent too.
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good morning I am looking for oscilloscope for purchase I took several readings and summarized the three oscilloscopes that were within my budget are:
hantek dso4102c 100mhz hantek dso5202p 200mhz both at about the same value, a bit more expensive the rigol ds1054z, which would be a good choice?
Welcome to the forum.
For your needs you should also consider the 2ch 200 MHz SDS1202X-E, a good little DSO and very capable.
I regularly sell these into repair businesses.
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The problem is, anything he imports to Brazil will be taxed in 100% (yeah it's crazy but it's true) so, a Rigol that costs "only" 400EUR will get to him at 800EUR (in fact more if you add shipping) and that is a lot of money here. And there will be no support if he needs it.
I was already afraid of that. It is sad how some countries cripple people who want to make a living but have a small budget to work with.
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At rigol ds1054z I bought it in tequipament usa, request student discount US $ 319.00 + US $ 95.00 shipping, at that price add 50% of customs in my total country just over 600 dollars in February 2018.
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Unfortunately it is the reality of my country abusive prices we have to resort to importation if you want to buy cheaper products and when they get here they are taxed at 60% or more.
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Micsig to1074 parece ser uma boa escolha mas não encontrei ele no aliexpress e banggood mas tem esse modelos;
R$ 1.995,62 Ganhe 40％ de desconto | Micsig TO1152 Tabuleta Digital Oscilloscope 150MHz 2CH 1G Sa/S de Taxa de Amostragem em Tempo Real-Osciloscópios Automotivos kit Multimetro
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/NyCF5gDE
[R$1.916,95 21% OFF]Micsig TO1104 100 MHz Digital Tablet Osciloscópio 4CH 28 Mpts 1GSa / s Osciloscópio Tela de Toque de Diagnóstico automotivo com 8 polegadas TFT LCD Instrumentos de Medição e Análise from Ferramentas, Industrial e Científica on banggood.com https://banggood.app.link/N8wQZC1UNZ
Esta um pouco acima do meu orçamento mas posso me apertar um pouco e comprar
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Very, very few people need a 200 MHz scope...
@luedno: A MicSig TO1074 is the best buy !
which would be better choice?
[R$1.916,95 21% OFF]Micsig TO1104 100 MHz Digital Tablet Osciloscópio 4CH 28 Mpts 1GSa / s Osciloscópio Tela de Toque de Diagnóstico automotivo com 8 polegadas TFT LCD Instrumentos de Medição e Análise from Ferramentas, Industrial e Científica on banggood.com https://banggood.app.link/MQNKb2uzPZ
Or
R$ 1.604,69 | RIGOL DS1054Z 50MHz Osciloscópio Digital 4 canais analógicos 50MHz de largura de banda
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/3AtBPMKk
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I'd say the TO1104 just because it is newer & better. However the TO1104 is touch-screen only so you'd have to like that. You may want to look for reviews on both scopes to see what you like.
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Very, very few people need a 200 MHz scope...
@luedno: A MicSig TO1074 is the best buy !
which would be better choice?
[R$1.916,95 21% OFF]Micsig TO1104 100 MHz Digital Tablet Osciloscópio 4CH 28 Mpts 1GSa / s Osciloscópio Tela de Toque de Diagnóstico automotivo com 8 polegadas TFT LCD Instrumentos de Medição e Análise from Ferramentas, Industrial e Científica on banggood.com https://banggood.app.link/MQNKb2uzPZ
Or
R$ 1.604,69 | RIGOL DS1054Z 50MHz Osciloscópio Digital 4 canais analógicos 50MHz de largura de banda
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/3AtBPMKk
I have one of each and honestly I would never again buy the Rigol, it's a pain in the ass. The MicSig? A pleasure. So much so that it's sitting in the place where my super-mega-cool DSO7104 Agilent used to be. And runs on batteries, it's small and portable, and even so its screen is LARGER (on the Rigol screen sometimes I can barely read the letters are too tiny), not as large as the Agilent's but big enough.
The MicSig NO DOUBT if you ask me! Right now it's the best buy. In my humble opinion of course.
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(English version below)
Entre esses dois últimos eu acho que o Rigol é a melhor escolha - se você tiver o espaço na bancada, claro. As razões são que ele é um equipamento com controles fisicamente mais acessíveis, pode ser consertado mais facilmente, tem mais usuários que podem ajudá-lo em caso de problemas, etc.
Os experts daqui consideram o micsig um excelente produto, touchscreen e bastante compacto, mas tem uma base instalada menor. O tamanho é uma grande vantagem se você precisa consertar coisas fora da sua bancada, mas uma desvantagem pois ele opera em alta temperatura e é mais difícil de consertar.
A sua bancada está em um quarto com ar-condicionado?
Um detalhe do Rigol é que ele possui representantes locais. Você tentou fazer uma cotação com eles? Isso pode ser uma grande ajuda em caso de problemas.
== English ==
Between the last two, I think the Rigol is a better choice - if you have the space in the bench, of course. The reason is that it is a bigger oscilloscope with real physical controls which can be repaired more easily, hacked if you need the decoders, has more users that can help you, etc.
The resident experts consider the micsig an excellent product, it is touchscreen only and is very compact, but a lot less people use it. The small size is a big advantage if you need it to repair things outside your bench but the small size/higher density means it will certainly run hotter and will be harder to repair.
Is your bench in an air-conditioned room?
Rigol has some local distributors - did you try to ask for a quote? This can
be very helpful in case of problems.
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Sorry but the Micsig isn't small at all (25cm x 21cm) ! The size is similar compared to the DS1054Z but the TO1104 has a much bigger screen.
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But watch out, that one in banggood does NOT include battery nor the serial decoding options. Or so it seems...
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this model from micsig to1152 would be better than to1104 on aliexpress it has battery I talked to seller
R$ 1.973,47 Ganhe 40％ de desconto | Micsig TO1152 Tabuleta Digital Oscilloscope 150MHz 2CH 1G Sa/S de Taxa de Amostragem em Tempo Real-Osciloscópios Automotivos kit Multimetro
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/LIrvRj4c
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The TO1152 has 2 channels not 4!
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Hello can tell if micsig to1104 has portuguese language. I am considering buying it tomorrow at banggood. good price and win multimeter gift
[R$1.916,95 21% OFF]Micsig TO1104 100 MHz Digital Tablet Osciloscópio 4CH 28 Mpts 1GSa / s Osciloscópio Tela de Toque de Diagnóstico automotivo com 8 polegadas TFT LCD Instrumentos de Medição e Análise from Ferramentas, Industrial e Científica on banggood.com https://banggood.app.link/Jdlk6V2aRZ
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(English version below)
Entre esses dois últimos eu acho que o Rigol é a melhor escolha - se você tiver o espaço na bancada, claro. As razões são que ele é um equipamento com controles fisicamente mais acessíveis, pode ser consertado mais facilmente, tem mais usuários que podem ajudá-lo em caso de problemas, etc.
Os experts daqui consideram o micsig um excelente produto, touchscreen e bastante compacto, mas tem uma base instalada menor. O tamanho é uma grande vantagem se você precisa consertar coisas fora da sua bancada, mas uma desvantagem pois ele opera em alta temperatura e é mais difícil de consertar.
A sua bancada está em um quarto com ar-condicionado?
Um detalhe do Rigol é que ele possui representantes locais. Você tentou fazer uma cotação com eles? Isso pode ser uma grande ajuda em caso de problemas.
== English ==
Between the last two, I think the Rigol is a better choice - if you have the space in the bench, of course. The reason is that it is a bigger oscilloscope with real physical controls which can be repaired more easily, hacked if you need the decoders, has more users that can help you, etc.
The resident experts consider the micsig an excellent product, it is touchscreen only and is very compact, but a lot less people use it. The small size is a big advantage if you need it to repair things outside your bench but the small size/higher density means it will certainly run hotter and will be harder to repair.
Is your bench in an air-conditioned room?
Rigol has some local distributors - did you try to ask for a quote? This can
be very helpful in case of problems.
In the room where I work has no air conditioning rigol I think it would be a safer choice because there are many recommendations here in the forum for sure maintenance on rigol will be possible already in micsig do not know. the problem that I am passionate about technology and love novelty wanted something more current the fact of being portable makes a big difference despite not using so much off the counter but it is an option, my fear is the durability of the product I think not being so resistant conventional countertops. discard if it is not clear what I describe here because I use goolge translator.
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The TO1152 has 2 channels not 4!
two is enough for me but for the same value would take the 4 channel
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But watch out, that one in banggood does NOT include battery nor the serial decoding options. Or so it seems...
would it be possible to buy battery in the future?
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would it be possible to buy battery in the future?
Yes, here: https://www.batterfly.com/shop/en/micsig/micsig-mini-battery (https://www.batterfly.com/shop/en/micsig/micsig-mini-battery)
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Just buy the Rigol, you will be happy with it. It can be upgraded to DS1104Z with all features enabled very simply and without opening it up, after this the . Search for 'Riglol' and you'll find a web site to type in the information and get back the key to get everything unlocked.
The 1054Z has been out for a long time, that means that almost all the bugs have been found and fixed. I own 4 scopes including a Keysight MSO7104B and the Rigol is the one I use most.
It's true that the Rigol has a smallish screen so I get closer to it when using the scope but then I have tired old eyes.
Here's a link to experiences on upgrading (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-rigol-ds1054z-still-hackable/) the DS1054Z
I don't work for any of the scope manufacturers; be suspicious that many people here saying buy brand x make money from selling brand x.
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be suspicious that many people here saying buy brand x make money from selling brand x.
Sorry but that is nonsense. Only Tautech has an interest in selling Siglent equipment because he is a dealer. Other people have no interest at all.
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Everything in the rigol is seriously slow as a snail (very annoying) and the UI is a disaster most of the time you have to push two or three buttons to get where you want because it's four submenus away. Then you click the rotary encoder and it moves up or down one item before the click and you've got to do it again. It was a mistake, I shouldn't have bought it.
I don't work for any of the scope manufacturers; be suspicious that many people here saying buy brand x make money from selling brand x.
Neither do I!
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Sigh... OK some people are brand x fanboys/fangirls.
I don't think that the 1054Z UI is "slow as a snail", I press the button and see what I want almost immediately.
OK, some of the rotary encoders don't always catch on every click but who gives a fuck when it's a $300 scope? I twiddle my knob and get a satisfactory result.
I have zero buyers remorse.
All of which probably leaves the OP completely confused.
For $300 for a 4 channel scope that's stood the test of time and has all the unlocked features and bandwidth for free,the DS1054Z is a winner. OUT
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Sigh... OK some people are brand x fanboys/fangirls.
Like you and me !
be suspicious that many people here saying buy brand x make money from selling brand x.
Sorry but that is nonsense. Only Tautech has an interest in selling Siglent equipment because he is a dealer. Other people have no interest at all.
Not only me, there are many member dealers/sellers and distributors here but few are open about their relationships. Nevertheless anyone with something between their ears and a few seconds on Google or check members website links can discover if some member is qualified to make comment of suggesting a brand/model, after all we do this each day as part of our businesses.
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Sigh... OK some people are brand x fanboys/fangirls.
I don't think that the 1054Z UI is "slow as a snail", I press the button and see what I want almost immediately.
OK, some of the rotary encoders don't always catch on every click but who gives a fuck when it's a $300 scope? I twiddle my knob and get a satisfactory result.
But meanwhile the world has moved on and other manufacturers have matched the same price bracket with more modern and better products. Recommending the DS1054Z is like dwelling in the past. Especially if you have not used any other oscilloscope then you get the 'everything looks like a nail if you only have a hammer' and 'I bought this so I must justify this purchase' effects on top of it.
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In the room where I work has no air conditioning rigol I think it would be a safer choice because there are many recommendations here in the forum for sure maintenance on rigol will be possible already in micsig do not know. the problem that I am passionate about technology and love novelty wanted something more current the fact of being portable makes a big difference despite not using so much off the counter but it is an option, my fear is the durability of the product I think not being so resistant conventional countertops. discard if it is not clear what I describe here because I use goolge translator.
O Micsig é bastante tentador mesmo - eu tenho namorado ele há muito tempo mas ainda não consegui justificar a sua compra. Ao comprar no Banggood, tenha cuidado com os termos de compra: caso ele venha com defeito, o vendedor aceita retornos ou trocas sem que você tenha que pagar o frete de volta para a China? Isso é algo que pode custar muito caro. Outro detalhe: você tem certeza que pode pedir esse equipamento e a Receita Federal não vai empepinar o meio de campo? Caso não dê pepino, quanto seria mais ou menos o imposto caso eles cobrem? Isso acaba fazendo parte do preço total do bichinho.
Micsig is very tempting indeed - I have been looking at it for quite some time but I still couldn't justify its purchase. As you buy on Banggood, just be careful with the sale conditions: if it comes defective, will the seller accept returns or exchanges for free? This is something that can cost a lot. Also: are you sure the customs will not block the shipping? If so, how much is the tax? This becomes part of its total cost.
But meanwhile the world has moved on and other manufacturers have matched the same price bracket with more modern and better products. Recommending the DS1054Z is like dwelling in the past. Especially if you have not used any other oscilloscope then you get the 'everything looks like a nail if you only have a hammer' and 'I bought this so I must justify this purchase' effects on top of it.
This can't be a sentence coming from someone with a balanced opinion. Foreign markets suffer from variables other than the products specifications - not everyone has access to the latest models or can afford to buy a lemon oscilloscope and brush it off just because it came from a less reliable distributor or the country has no available service or technical support. Sure, the OP is willing to take the risk with Banggood, but others may not.
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But meanwhile the world has moved on and other manufacturers have matched the same price bracket with more modern and better products. Recommending the DS1054Z is like dwelling in the past. Especially if you have not used any other oscilloscope then you get the 'everything looks like a nail if you only have a hammer' and 'I bought this so I must justify this purchase' effects on top of it.
This can't be a sentence coming from someone with a balanced opinion. Foreign markets suffer from variables other than the products specifications - not everyone has access to the latest models or can afford to buy a lemon oscilloscope and brush it off just because it came from a less reliable distributor or the country has no available service or technical support. Sure, the OP is willing to take the risk with Banggood, but others may not.
Assuming the service from Bangood or Aliexpress is worst than a local vendor is not valid. There are lots of local sellers which are totally crap. At some point I ordered something from Italy (that is about 2000km away) because the local distributor absolutely sucked.
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Really everything points to the ds1054z, many recommendations best cost benefit, various topics in the forums, long time in the market, I am sure it will be my best choice. but another question arises, I never had contact with the device, basic notions, and this other option appears hantek dso5102p.
https://www.banggood.com/Hantek-DSO5102P-USB-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2Channels-100MHz-1GSas-p-1013032.html?akmClientCountry=BR&rmmds=cart_middle_products&cur_warehouse=CN (https://www.banggood.com/Hantek-DSO5102P-USB-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2Channels-100MHz-1GSas-p-1013032.html?akmClientCountry=BR&rmmds=cart_middle_products&cur_warehouse=CN)
Comparing with the rigol ds1054z the price difference would be almost double look;
https://aliexpress.com/item/32498608008.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.2a552e0emM6J9u (https://aliexpress.com/item/32498608008.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.2a552e0emM6J9u)
Wouldn't a beginner be a safer choice justified by price? so I will know what I really need after using this hantek.
Already research various topics on this hantek know all the bugs and their limitations, it would be possible to manufacture a device that can not use basic things?
I am really in doubt if anyone can share your thoughts already thank you.
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In the room where I work has no air conditioning rigol I think it would be a safer choice because there are many recommendations here in the forum for sure maintenance on rigol will be possible already in micsig do not know. the problem that I am passionate about technology and love novelty wanted something more current the fact of being portable makes a big difference despite not using so much off the counter but it is an option, my fear is the durability of the product I think not being so resistant conventional countertops. discard if it is not clear what I describe here because I use goolge translator.
O Micsig é bastante tentador mesmo - eu tenho namorado ele há muito tempo mas ainda não consegui justificar a sua compra. Ao comprar no Banggood, tenha cuidado com os termos de compra: caso ele venha com defeito, o vendedor aceita retornos ou trocas sem que você tenha que pagar o frete de volta para a China? Isso é algo que pode custar muito caro. Outro detalhe: você tem certeza que pode pedir esse equipamento e a Receita Federal não vai empepinar o meio de campo? Caso não dê pepino, quanto seria mais ou menos o imposto caso eles cobrem? Isso acaba fazendo parte do preço total do bichinho.
Micsig is very tempting indeed - I have been looking at it for quite some time but I still couldn't justify its purchase. As you buy on Banggood, just be careful with the sale conditions: if it comes defective, will the seller accept returns or exchanges for free? This is something that can cost a lot. Also: are you sure the customs will not block the shipping? If so, how much is the tax? This becomes part of its total cost.
But meanwhile the world has moved on and other manufacturers have matched the same price bracket with more modern and better products. Recommending the DS1054Z is like dwelling in the past. Especially if you have not used any other oscilloscope then you get the 'everything looks like a nail if you only have a hammer' and 'I bought this so I must justify this purchase' effects on top of it.
This can't be a sentence coming from someone with a balanced opinion. Foreign markets suffer from variables other than the products specifications - not everyone has access to the latest models or can afford to buy a lemon oscilloscope and brush it off just because it came from a less reliable distributor or the country has no available service or technical support. Sure, the OP is willing to take the risk with Banggood, but others may not.
micsig will be expensive because I risk being taxed at 60% of the value
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Wouldn't a beginner be a safer choice justified by price? so I will know what I really need after using this hantek.
Considerando somente essa lógica, você poderia comprar um DSO188 (https://www.banggood.com/Hantek-DSO5102P-USB-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2Channels-100MHz-1GSas-p-1013032.html?akmClientCountry=BR&rmmds=cart_middle_products&cur_warehouse=CN) e ver se ele atende a parte das suas especificações: certamente o preço e o risco são baixíssimos, você terá a funcionalidade de um osciloscópio para ondas de até 1MHz (suficiente para áudio) e ele vai te dar experi~encia para saber o que você precisa em um osciloscópio "de verdade". Assim você consegue tomar a decisão mais tarde.
Não conheço o Hantek, mas diversos artigos na internet indicam que ele é um produto que deixa a desejar. A lógica aqui é similar à do DSO188: é um produto básico (mas com melhor refinamento e muito mais banda) mas que carrega um preço e um risco maiores.
Considering only this logic, you could get a ultra basic DSO188 (https://www.banggood.com/Hantek-DSO5102P-USB-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2Channels-100MHz-1GSas-p-1013032.html?akmClientCountry=BR&rmmds=cart_middle_products&cur_warehouse=CN) and see if it meets at least part of your expectations: the price and the risk are very low, you will be able to see waveforms up to 1MHz (enough for audio) and it will give you some experience to find what you need on an oscilloscope, so you can make a better decision later.
I don't know the Hantek, but many reports on the internet point to it being an unfinished product. The logic is similar to the DSO188: it is a basic product (although a bit more refined and with much more bandwidth) but the price and risk are higher.
But meanwhile the world has moved on and other manufacturers have matched the same price bracket with more modern and better products. Recommending the DS1054Z is like dwelling in the past. Especially if you have not used any other oscilloscope then you get the 'everything looks like a nail if you only have a hammer' and 'I bought this so I must justify this purchase' effects on top of it.
This can't be a sentence coming from someone with a balanced opinion. Foreign markets suffer from variables other than the products specifications - not everyone has access to the latest models or can afford to buy a lemon oscilloscope and brush it off just because it came from a less reliable distributor or the country has no available service or technical support. Sure, the OP is willing to take the risk with Banggood, but others may not.
Assuming the service from Bangood or Aliexpress is worst than a local vendor is not valid. There are lots of local sellers which are totally crap. At some point I ordered something from Italy (that is about 2000km away) because the local distributor absolutely sucked.
Nico, my beef is with your umbrella assertive about recommending Rigol - local distribution is just one element.
My final word on the distributor question:
Sure, certain distributors are not worth their salt but countries have laws and returns or exchanges are certainly covered in many cases. In your specific case you bought from Italy because you know you are covered in part by EU regulations. Another aspect is service and/or general technical support. Translating your case to the OP, if you are not familiar with the equipment (or is a beginner) and don't speak Italian, the foreign distributor has no obligation to provide service and support in English or Dutch. All in all, the service from Bangood or Aliexpress may not be as bad as a local distributor, but it can be blocked by additional cost or ulterior factors.
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Nico, my beef is with your umbrella assertive about recommending Rigol - local distribution is just one element.
My beef is with people blindly recommending the DS1054Z without looking how the world has moved on. It is almost like an unvoluntary knee-yerk reaction. BTW you don't seem to notice that I didn't recommend a scope which would fit the price bracket but (appearantly) isn't available to the OP.
When it comes to sellers: Aliexpress has a way to get a refund if the goods aren't OK. Perhaps Banggood has something similar and then there is always the possibility to file a claim at the credit card company.
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How can I be recommending the DS1054Z "blindly" when I own one and use it 3 times a week?
Is is possible that an unbelievably better scope is available that offered way better features and value for money and that I'm not aware of? I guess it's possible but it hasn't been reviewed by Dave yet.
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My beef is with people blindly recommending the DS1054Z without looking how the world has moved on.
The DS1054Z is still a solidly built, reliable way to see wiggly lines on a screen and take measurements. It works, there's still nothing that beats it for the price.
The Siglents, etc., are not a massive step up in terms of empowerment for most people. The difference between owning a DSO and not owning a DSO is night/day.
The difference between a Rigol DS1054Z and the next step up the ladder? Quite small in reality. Do they have (eg.) better FFTs? Yes, but I've never used the FFT function in the three+ years I've owned mine, so... :-//
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::)
Meeting Nyquist with 3 channels active at rated and hacked BW is a basic requirement.
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::)
Meeting Nyquist with 3 channels active at rated and hacked BW is a basic requirement.
I think the only 'scope that meets that criteria under $1000 is the Rigol MSO5000. :popcorn:
For the rest of us? We can turn a channel off and see if it makes a massive difference to the remaining two. If not, turn it back on and continue.
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DS1054Z... why? because its proven DSO that we can download its data to the PC and do useful stuffs. and because i and many others here own it. it has minor annoyance though such as slow GUI and math function, limited decode range etc. but isnt other brand have annoyance too? at least one i can certain is they are unproven or no record showing that their data can be downloaded to the PC to do useful stuffs.
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DS1054Z... why? because its proven DSO that ... do useful stuffs.
Yep.
but isnt other brand have annoyance too?
Yes. The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
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Hello I already researched a lot about these; rigol ds1054z and micsig to1104 and after much research I had no decision the two are well recommended. I would like to see more comments about them, this will help you decide.
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The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
::)
The perfect scope has not yet been made !
This is the part that people seem to forget.
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The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
::)
The perfect scope has not yet been made !
This is the part that people seem to forget.
Agreed, not having to perform probe compensation when switching between vertical ranges is a basic requirement IMHO.
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The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
::)
The perfect scope has not yet been made !
This is the part that people seem to forget.
Agreed, not having to perform probe compensation when switching between vertical ranges is a basic requirement IMHO.
i think they exist, but not in $400 range. we are not aiming at perfect scope on that price range, but bang per buck, or features or capabilities per unit dollar. Siglent scope has deeper FFT built-in, but that can be compensated with downloading data to PC from DS1000Z, and then do 24M points FFT, which is way way ahead of what Siglent capable of (1Mpts FFT) albeit cute and charming built-in the DSO unit (standalone). with raw data at hand (PC), countless tools can be emulated such as bode plotter, impedance analyzer, full memory serial decoder etc. coupled with FG and some simple setup/rig/circuit, VSWR, or possibly S11/S21 etc. more advance feature not available in 6 figure price comes to mind such as probe impedance effect compensator, where with knowledge of probe (or with DSO) input impedance, we can cancel out the effect using inverse FFT (compensation or de-compensation whatever term you like in frequency domain) to get back or estimate original signal in time domain as if probe is not connected to hence not loaded by it.
but since this may never come into a person's imagination, so it would not matter and in the end they can choose or google the best feature DSO they like, buy it and be happy forever about it. having said all this, this is not actually trying to prove my point or give an absolutist opinion, this is actually a challenge to those other brands to prove that their scope can do this one thing (data can be transferred to PC) i saw a programming guide for Siglent scope to download data, but no one ever build one practical or useful PC tool for it to really prove that it can be done. until that time, Rigol is the only one in the recommended list. if they prove it, i'm willing to put their brand in my recommended list. a mumbling from a person from hobby SW development background. but if you are not interested in SW development, then it wouldnt matter a rat arse anyway.
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Considering that you will have to pay taxes buying overseas, and that tax can be more than 100% (60% of import tax over price plus shipping costs, and 20-30% of ICMS calculated over that final price with all taxes), in my opinion it is better to buy locally and be protected by Brazilian consumers law.
I did that some years ago, and bought from the Getrotech store: https://www.getrotech.com.br/loja/ds1054z.html (https://www.getrotech.com.br/loja/ds1054z.html)
They offer 3 years of warranty and you can pay in 12x.
I have no affiliation with that store, only bought there one scope and one function generator.
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the risks are really great i got interested in this micsig to1104 but the price that will cost me will not be better cost benefit.
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the risks are really great i got interested in this micsig to1104 but the price that will cost me will not be better cost benefit.
As I mentioned before and reiterated by rodpp; the local purchase will be helpful if something goes wrong, even if you pay more.
One additional detail: as you get more familiarized with the model you choose, you may find it has limitations that require something different or better. This does not need to be the oscilloscope you will use forever.
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Nico, my beef is with your umbrella assertive about recommending Rigol - local distribution is just one element.
My beef is with people blindly recommending the DS1054Z without looking how the world has moved on.
Boundary conditions... Boundary conditions... Sure, the world has moved on to higher standards, thus I wouldn't suggest this model to someone that could have everything crossing the border without a 100% taxation on finished goods, the occasional processing time given by the customs agency that can vary anywhere between two weeks and six months, the guarantee that almost any credit card claim is made in favour of the customer, the local mail enters into general strike every quarter... Too much risk.
It is almost like an unvoluntary knee-yerk reaction.
Look, you are usually well mannered, knowledgeable and centered guy, and I appreciate the plethora of information you provide around here. But when the subject is scopes and anyone has the audacity to suggest the DS1054Z or the various Siglent models... Take cover! :scared:
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It is almost like an unvoluntary knee-yerk reaction.
But when the subject is scopes and anyone has the audacity to suggest the DS1054Z or the various Siglent models... Take cover! :scared:
It appears you don't think we experienced users are sufficiently qualified to offer scope selection advice ? :-//
Might I remind you some of us do this everyday outside this forum so what makes this forum any more special than the real world ? ?
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It is almost like an unvoluntary knee-yerk reaction.
Look, you are usually well mannered, knowledgeable and centered guy, and I appreciate the plethora of information you provide around here. But when the subject is scopes and anyone has the audacity to suggest the DS1054Z or the various Siglent models... Take cover! :scared:
You are too emotional over my statement. Just put the DS1054Z next to other options in the same price bracket yourself and you'll see it is getting old. And did I say anything bad about the Siglent scopes mentioned? No. Because from the information on this forum it seems Siglent has improved a lot where it comes to firmware development.
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You are too emotional over my statement. Just put the DS1054Z next to other options in the same price bracket yourself and you'll see it is getting old.development.
Doesn't mean it'll be worn out when you buy one.
It can still greatly empower people who don't have an oscilloscope at all or who really can't stretch the extra 50% that a Siglent costs (or can't get on in their area...)
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You are too emotional over my statement. Just put the DS1054Z next to other options in the same price bracket yourself and you'll see it is getting old.development.
Doesn't mean it'll be worn out when you buy one.
It can still greatly empower people who don't have an oscilloscope at all or who really can't stretch the extra 50% that a Siglent costs (or can't get on in their area...)
There are other options which cost like 10% to 20% extra.
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There are other options which cost like 10% to 20% extra.
thats very helpful.
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The Siglents of the world are also imperfect. This is the part that people seem to forget.
::)
The perfect scope has not yet been made !
This is the part that people seem to forget.
Agreed, not having to perform probe compensation when switching between vertical ranges is a basic requirement IMHO.
Siglent scope has deeper FFT built-in, but that can be compensated with downloading data to PC from DS1000Z, and then do 24M points FFT, which is way way ahead of what Siglent capable of (1Mpts FFT) albeit cute and charming built-in the DSO unit (standalone).
Not start debate about differences (all is here in forum already) and so on... both have pros and cons even today when DS1kZ is bit aged.
But if use this single argument for Rigol then it is more fair also handle Siglent with same argument. 24M vs 14M points externally processed FFT. Of course it is still less than Rigol but who can claim anymore that it is way way ahead of what Siglent capable of and if we then take also noise to account.
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But if use this single argument for Rigol then it is more fair also handle Siglent with same argument. 24M vs 14M points externally processed FFT. Of course it is still less than Rigol but who can claim anymore that it is way way ahead of what Siglent capable of and if we then take also noise to account.
i was talking the 1Mpts Siglent built in FFT vs Rigol 24Mpts external FFT. the problem is, no one has ever proved that possible... to download data to PC from Siglent scope, and do some processing to entertain us. if someone can show me PC software link or youtube demo, my next upgrade will be Siglent brand, but wait... 24Mpts is almost twice the 14Mpts, so it will be a hard decision. about the noise, no DSO will ever satisfy crave for lower noise, esp 8 bits DSO? 10,16,24bits DSO still cost a fortune, so in time we have to look for another tool suitable for the job, such as Spectrum Analyzer, the TEA is inevitable.
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Not start debate about differences (all is here in forum already) and so on... both have pros and cons even today when DS1kZ is bit aged.
The point I try to make is: The Rigol DS1054Z is still a solid choice and shouldn't be rejected out of hand. They're still the cheapest option that gets you a "real" oscilloscope, they're solidly built and they're capable enough for most people.
They're also easy to source just about anywhere (unlike GW-Insteks, whose pricees and availability vary wildly).
Arguing over FFTs seems particularly pointless. Most people's needs simply don't require that.
Would I pay more than $25 extra and/or get into a difficult after-sales situation just for a better response on the vertical position control? No, and I'm sure that's the only real difference I'd see in everyday use.
I also like having a row of buttons down the left side for turning on measurements. I'm sure I'd miss those if I went with a brand that made me drill down into sub-menus with the twisty knob to do the same thing.
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Arguing over FFTs seems particularly pointless. Most people's needs simply don't require that.
so with this. Rigol will be the last in recommended list due to its retarded laggy GUI. buy another DSO other than Rigol. there is no point arguing this DSO has a little bit more memory etc, i seldomly require long memory when looking at signal during circuit debugging. combined with its super laggy GUI, scrolling long memory in zoom or whatever will be super PITA anyway.
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Not start debate about differences (all is here in forum already) and so on... both have pros and cons even today when DS1kZ is bit aged.
The point I try to make is: The Rigol DS1054Z is still a solid choice and shouldn't be rejected out of hand (1). They're still the cheapest option that gets you a "real" oscilloscope, they're solidly built and they're capable enough (2) for most people.
1) Yes.
2) ...for some peoples or for "many" peoples.
What is "real" oscilloscope I do not know due to lack of enough knowledge and quite short, barely just over 50 years, experience with some kind of oscilloscopes. But oscilloscope (555) what weight over 50kg feels perhaps "real" when 2 peoples carry it and running..
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The point I try to make is: The Rigol DS1054Z is still a solid choice and shouldn't be rejected out of hand (1). They're still the cheapest option that gets you a "real" oscilloscope, they're solidly built and they're capable enough (2) for most people.
1) Yes.
2) ...for some peoples or for "many" peoples.
Many.
Don't confuse these forums for the real world. In the real world the DS1054Z is king of sales.
Guess what the #1 seller is on Batronix right now? It's the Rigol DS1052E... :popcorn:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/DSO.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/DSO.html) (sort by "position")
Anybody calling the DS1054Z "too old" is out of touch with reality. :-DD
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In my modest opinion, he will say that Rigol is quite good for its price, but if I stick to the parameters, in Spain:
The Rigol DS1054Z costs € 400 with taxes included.
The Siglent SDS1104x-e costs € 510 with taxes included.
The price difference is € 100, it is 25% and not 50% with they say out there.
If we have to hack the two oscilloscopes, we get:
Rigol 4 channels, 100Mhz and serial decoders, for € 400.
Siglent 4 channels, 200Mhz, serial decoders, Wifi, AWG license (option to expand to AWG) and MSO license (option to expand to MSO), for € 510.
And if we enter into technical characteristics:
Siglent is better than Rigol in:
Siglent has 2 Adc of 1Gs, being able to work the 4 channels at 500Ms
Rigol has 1 Adc of 1Gs, being able to work the 4 channels at 250Ms
Siglent Wfm = 100,000, up to 400,000 in segmented memory.
Rigol Wfm = 30,000.
Siglent has 14Mb x 2, that is 14Mbs per 2 channels = 28Mbs.
Rigol has 24Mb.
Siglent has FFT of 1Mp, really usable and reliable.
Rigol has a toy FFT.
Siglent has SFRA or Bode Plot with an AWG (any AWG from Siglent works).
Siglent has Wifi, remote control by web, option to expand to AWG and MSO.
Siglent moves faster in the menus because of its more modern hardware.
Siglent has functions of tables and markers in FFT and serial decoding, etc. They really help a lot.
With this I do not say that Rigol is a bad option, much less, but if seeing its technical characteristics the Siglent is one step above the Rigol, and the price is also a step above.
It all depends on whether you want or can spend those extra € 100.
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@uargo
That's a fair summary of capabilities but you're missing a parameter; how well does the OEM stand behind their products?
I bought a brand new 2-channel Siglent SDS1202X-E scope (that had a claimed 3 year warranty) in early 2018. That scope was in a batch that had hardware issues (the probe compensation problem) caused by missing capacitors on the front end and the US Siglent organization refused to allow me to do a return offering instead to send me the missing capacitors so I could take it apart and fit them myself! After a multi-letter battle with the Siglent US Sales Manager, I eventually got a full refund and bought my DS1054Z.
So there's that aspect to consider too.
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yours is a punctual case, it is not the usual thing that also happens to all brands including Rigol
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yours is a punctual case, it is not the usual thing that also happens to all brands including Rigol
One easily forgets the design errors in early 1054Z that were corrected with a later SW bodge:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/)
Then after further deeper investigation Project Yaigol was born:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/project-yaigol-fixing-rigol-scope-design-problems/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/project-yaigol-fixing-rigol-scope-design-problems/)
Those that want to throw mud should expect some to be thrown back.
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In my modest opinion, he will say that Rigol is quite good for its price, but if I stick to the parameters, in Spain:
The Rigol DS1054Z costs € 400 with taxes included.
The Siglent SDS1104x-e costs € 510 with taxes included.
The price difference is € 100, it is 25% and not 50% with they say out there.
Looks like prices have changed. Rigol has gone up a bit and Siglent has gone down a bit. Let's see what they are next month. :-//
(And GW-Instek has vanished)
That's in Europe, it won't help our Brazilian friend.
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Those that want to throw mud should expect some to be thrown back.
Don't buy anything from Siglent if you are not sure you don't want to sell it on Ebay later...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-_wrongful-trademark-claim_/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-_wrongful-trademark-claim_/)
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Those that want to throw mud should expect some to be thrown back.
Don't buy anything from Siglent if you are not sure you don't want to sell it on Ebay later...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-_wrongful-trademark-claim_/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-_wrongful-trademark-claim_/)
And from that thread there is also a link to this little jem:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/ds1052e-removed-from-ebay/msg2892/#msg2892 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/ds1052e-removed-from-ebay/msg2892/#msg2892)
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Those that want to throw mud should expect some to be thrown back.
Indeed.
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yours is a punctual case, it is not the usual thing that also happens to all brands including Rigol
I'm not sure you're using the word "punctual" correctly, it means being on time. My comment told you that Siglent USA did not honor their new equipment warranty (unless you believe their claim that having to perform probe calibration after you change vertical ranges is an acceptable requirement).
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Would go for the Rigol oscilloscope (https://oscilloscopepros.com/rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/) if its within your budget. Siglent is also a strong choice.
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All teams and brands have had and have bugs, especially recently launched for sale.
I'm not a fanboy of either Rigol or Siglent, I just researched a lot before I bought the oscilloscope, I also compared Rohde & Schwarz, keysight (too expensive), Owon, Micsig (they didn't convince me), and in that price range Siglent seemed to me the best, with the best features and with 4 channels.
I do not intend to discredit any brand, I simply try to give the one who wants to buy an oscilloscope all the information that I collected for months so that he can decide.
If you are interested in my list of candidates (with 4 channels and this price range) it looks like this:
1st place - Siglent SDS1104X-E (won by having the best features)
2nd place - Micsig TO1104 Plus (good features and battery, portable)
3rd place - Rigol DS1054Z (good features)
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I also have a hantek dso4202c, a handheld hantek dso1062b and an analogue of 2 channels 30mhz.
Hantek is fine for initiation and hobby, but it has several shortcomings when you are looking for something else:
1 - has no deep memory
2 - only 1024 fft points
3 - low WFM
4 - without serial decoder
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There's some obvious conclusions to be drawn from the points raised in this thread so far which are that designing and launching something as complex as a digital oscilloscope is difficult and the cheapness of the scope (and the OEM ;)) is directly proportional to the likelihood of there being hardware and software bugs.
The better OEMs will stand behind their products when such bugs are discovered; obviously software bugs can be fixed by sending out new firmware versions which is fairly easy for an OEM to do but hardware bugs that would need a return and repair can get expensive for the OEMs who will clearly lose all profits on a <$500 scope if they 'do the right thing' and fix stuff for early adopters.
My conclusion is that the best thing to do is not buy a newly-launched model unless you really need all the latest features and you're sure that the OEM will stand behind their product. There are many examples in the world of products that were launched before ready to use the early adopters effectively as beta testers.
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Hello After much research I made a decision, I was very interested in micsig to1104 but due to the difficulties to acquire and the risks to give up on this option. my choice was for the rigol ds1054z very recommended being better value for money, compared to models that were available in my country it offers me more features than others of the same value, since a long time in the market with many contents helps a lot for beginners. thank you all.
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Hello After much research I made a decision, I was very interested in micsig to1104 but due to the difficulties to acquire and the risks to give up on this option. my choice was for the rigol ds1054z very recommended being better value for money, compared to models that were available in my country it offers me more features than others of the same value, since a long time in the market with many contents helps a lot for beginners. thank you all.
I think you'll be happy with your choice, have fun ;D
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Congratulations on your purchase! I hope it gives you hours of fun!
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I find myself in the same boat as you.
Solved it by buying a tried and tested cheap scope. The Hantek DSO5102P I got it for 150$ USD. Well I placed the order. Delivery on the 7th. This was the last piece with the seller. And he had a very poor rating.
So lets see.
Meanwhile I continue to research so far my best pick is the Siglegent. SDS1104X-E.
I need to confirm it has the touch screen interface. And that it has AWG function via the USB port.
Every 2nd day I have a new fav. Right now its the Siglegent. Everything is a blur in my mind as I have been reading hundreds of reviews, posts, and videos.
But as this will be the last scope I buy in this lifetime. I want it to be right. Features I like.
1. 100 Mhz.
2. 4 channel
3. AWG
4. SPI / Serial decode
5. Ability to view the scope on a large display and use it. From the PC.
6. Large display at least 7 inch with 800x600 display. or 800x400.
250 M/S per channel. When using 3 - 4 channels.
I nearly pulled the trigger on a Hantek DSO2D15 or DSO2D10 but too many posts on this forum and others complaining about things like lack of accuracy, noise, AWG stopped working etc etc.
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Meanwhile I continue to research so far my best pick is the Siglegent. SDS1104X-E.
I need to confirm it has the touch screen interface. And that it has AWG function via the USB port.
Every 2nd day I have a new fav. Right now its the Siglegent. Everything is a blur in my mind as I have been reading hundreds of reviews, posts, and videos.
But as this will be the last scope I buy in this lifetime. I want it to be right. Features I like.
1. 100 Mhz.
2. 4 channel
3. AWG
4. SPI / Serial decode
5. Ability to view the scope on a large display and use it. From the PC.
6. Large display at least 7 inch with 800x600 display. or 800x400.
250 M/S per channel. When using 3 - 4 channels.
It doesn't, only standard TFT-LCD.
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000x-e/
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes with optional SAG1021I
4. Decodes free
5. Yes, webserver standard.
6. Yes, 7" display
250 M/S per channel. When using 3 - 4 channels. = Yes, actually 500MSa/s with 4 active channels.
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Meanwhile I continue to research so far my best pick is the Siglegent. SDS1104X-E.
I need to confirm it has the touch screen interface.
That's easy: No it doesn't.
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Ok I found the one with touch. Plus it has a 10.1 inch screen.
One key point i missed on my list of must have was the unit should have at least 2 ADC.
This one seems to be my present hot fav.
Even though my Hantek unit was delivered one day early today. And I love it.
https://www.amazon.com/SIGLENT-SDS2104X-Channel-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B08M9ZYCCD?fbclid=IwAR0MUwFS4DhHoLxRP_4WEGFTvmwIZ_JSWdCo_OT1ItihrocebKygzD9tzlM (https://www.amazon.com/SIGLENT-SDS2104X-Channel-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B08M9ZYCCD?fbclid=IwAR0MUwFS4DhHoLxRP_4WEGFTvmwIZ_JSWdCo_OT1ItihrocebKygzD9tzlM)