EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: BigFarma on June 18, 2023, 05:52:30 pm
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Hello everyone! Im looking to buy a piece of equipment to reliably test almost any capacitor I come across. I currently only have the ability to test capacitance. The final showdown seems to be between the Atlas ESR70, the DE 5000, and the Sencore lc53 Z-meter. I am open to any other suggestions as well. Ive also heard that the Atlas Peak can test capacitors? If so i suppose that is in the running also. Any insight is greatly appreciated, buy once cry once ;)
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How large capacitors do you need to measure?
(off-the shelf capacitors have a "dynamic range" of maybe 1015 : 1)
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I have and like the Sencore unit, It will do 100,000Uf and never had it be wrong.
The other units I have not used.
Jeff
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I have the DE 5000 and like it a lot, especially the size. It can't be beat for field work. Very accurate, and has lots of features.
I also have the LC53, and this is my primary bench meter. The main advantage over the others is that it will measure leakage using proper (ajustable) voltage levels for the cap you are testing. It will also measure very large (100K µFd?) values of capacitance . Mind, it takes up a fair amount of real-estate on the bench and pricing is usually ridiculous. Also, make sure that it has the proper test lead. Mine went stupid a while back and I had to replace all of the electrolytics in the power supply. No biggie, and to be expected with a unit of that age. Love the display, those 0.5" LEDs are huge and bright :)
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Nothing crazy in size, not even microwave sized but I guess Im trying to future-proof. The largest caps I have currently that need testing are 200v 680uf
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Hello everyone! Im looking to buy a piece of equipment to reliably test almost any capacitor I come across. I currently only have the ability to test capacitance. The final showdown seems to be between the Atlas ESR70, the DE 5000, and the Sencore lc53 Z-meter. I am open to any other suggestions as well. Ive also heard that the Atlas Peak can test capacitors? If so i suppose that is in the running also. Any insight is greatly appreciated, buy once cry once ;)
You need to measure whether a capacitor (etc!) is fit for purpose, you must
- define the purpose
- define how fitness/unfitness will be visible to an observer
- if not directly measuring the visible behaviour, define a parameter that causes the relevant behaviour
- only then work out how to measure the parameter
Overall, sometimes it is best to create your own test rig that stimulates the capacitor (etc) in a way that mimics the use in your circuit.
A couple of specific examples where you would use entirely different measurements:
- dielectric absorbtion involves very slow voltage changes
- SMPS capacitor behaviour is likely to involve fast high current transients
- backup capacitor behaviour is likely to involve self-discharge currents and low currents for long time periods
And I will cry as many times as I see fit.
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This seems like very good advice and I will remember it but at the moment I am just setting up shop basically from scratch. I have several electronic projects that need working on and I'd rather start right and get the most broadly useful equipment as possible without having to piece together several inferior testing devices just to have them replaced later by a unit that can do it all and more. So Im trying to find the right equipment to test the most capacitors in the most ways. I believe the DE 5000 and the lc53 will get me most of the way there, unless I'm mistaken. Sorry if this belongs in the Newbie section, I was excited, still am ;D
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This seems like very good advice and I will remember it but at the moment I am just setting up shop basically from scratch. I have several electronic projects that need working on and I'd rather start right and get the most broadly useful equipment as possible without having to piece together several inferior testing devices just to have them replaced later by a unit that can do it all and more. So Im trying to find the right equipment to test the most capacitors in the most ways. I believe the DE 5000 and the lc53 will get me most of the way there, unless I'm mistaken. Sorry if this belongs in the Newbie section, I was excited, still am ;D
There can never be any single "right" section, only "wrong" sections (e.g. FPGA :) )
There's a valid argument that if you don't know what you want/need to test, then it is better to delay purchasing until you do know. There are valid counter-arguments too.
However, since you already know your initial projects, you can also work out what parameters will be important for those projects. I suggest that a simple one-size-fits-all number of capacitance may be too simplistic, but that is for you to decide.
Have fun.
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I can't speak to the Atlas ESR70, but I own both a LC53, purchased new in 1984 from Sencore, and I own the DE 5000. I'd recommend the DE 5000 as a first purchase, as it's very accurate and not too expensive. If you can afford it, buy both meters - they are good test tools and I'd recommend them.
I just took my Sencore LC53 apart to inspect it and recap the power supply and check all the other electrolytics. Surprisingly, all the caps checked out good. But I did recap the power supply and add a fuse to the line cord. My LC53 was one of the last runs made, before Sencore started making the LC77 the next year, and before the 1990's bad cap era started. However, my LC53 recently started reading large caps values incorrectly, so I'm currently recalibrating it.
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The ESR70 can only measure down to 0.3uF, hard pass. The LCR45 has a wider range but other limitations. I think the Peak Atlas stuff is cute, but it's also somewhat frustrating. There is the non-standard battery, hard-wired test lead connections and sometimes clunky two-button interface. You also end up having to buy a LOT of different products to get the job done.
So the DE-5000 would be my suggestion over the Peak Atlas products.
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The Peak ESR 70 Gold meter is very good for in circuit testing, I have the DE5000 as well, and that does fine out of circuit, but its insistence in not going back to last used mode drives me nuts every time I turn it on.
There is also a UNI-T version which is basically a clone of the DE5000, works just as well, BUT the included tweezer probes are a bit flimsy.
I would love to pick up a Sencore for my bench the the prices are just stupid, even for broken ones.
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So would you say that Atlas ESR70 is better for in-circuit testing then LCR like DER DE5000?
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Yes, definitely, while the DE5000 can do SOME in circuit measurements it is affected a lot more than the ESR70 is.
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I have done a review video of the ESR70 here: https://youtu.be/FrhF-V0fsh8
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I just saw the video. Very helpful thanks. So in conclusion LCR meters in general are not as good as Peak ESR70 in measuring caps esr, and also as not as good for in-circuit.
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The posts above point out that the DE-5000 is not good for in-circuit measurements, but no one said the Peak was better for ESR otherwise.
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RiRaRi, I think you watched a not very useful video. The principle of operation of the measuring bridge, which is the DE5000, is well shown in another video. Understanding this principle will give you answers to all your questions. Including in-circuit measurements.
https://youtu.be/ivVSq0IiZGo (https://youtu.be/ivVSq0IiZGo)
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I own and use both the Atlas ESR-70 and DER DE-5000.
Both are very good, but made for different use scenarios: ESR-70 is best for repairs. You quickly see capacity and ESR, and you can decide if the capacitor is still fit for its job. The DER DE-5000 is an excellent RCL analyser, for more in depth analysis, but measurements take more time. It performs as well as much more expensive RCL analysers, so great value for money.
A not mentioned before advantage of the ESR-70 is that it will discharge a still charged capacitor before starting measuring.
Connect a charged capacitor to a DER-DE-500, and it will say POOOFF... (As with most RCL meters) A costly mistake...
So, while doing a repair, will you remember to discharge a capacitor every time before testing? :)
Regards, Gertjan.
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If you truly only need to test large capacitors, then the ESR70 might be OK, but personally I became frustrated with how often it simply wouldn't provide a reading. Is the capacitor bad, does it need to be removed from the circuit or both? I hit the 0.3uF lower limit too often.
I also have the LCR45 and the two button interface is very annoying. Sometimes it won't auto-detect correctly so you have to enter the menu system which I think can drive you mad unless you use it frequently.
So I find I use the DE-5000 almost exclusively. However, they all come out sometimes to run whatever tests need to be run.
Daily use case might be the deciding factor here...
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I've checked some capacitors like 2200µF with the DE5000, but you have to lower the test frequency to 120 or 100Hz.
otherwise you don't get a reading.
de5000 manual : https://www.ietlabs.com/pdf/Manuals/DE_5000_im.pdf (https://www.ietlabs.com/pdf/Manuals/DE_5000_im.pdf)
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Nothing crazy in size, not even microwave sized but I guess Im trying to future-proof. The largest caps I have currently that need testing are 200v 680uf
Oh piddly little ones.
ST42 SMD tweezers have no problem with 3900uF.
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ESR is not the most important parameter. But if it's enough for you, you can use the DE5000 to measure ESR any large-capacity capacitor at any frequency in Rs mode. For example, 18000uF at 100 kHz.
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If you want one of the best capacitor testers, look for the Sencore LC103
But unfortunately the used prices these days are higher than the original Sencore list price.
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If you truly only need to test large capacitors, then the ESR70 might be OK, but personally I became frustrated with how often it simply wouldn't provide a reading. Is the capacitor bad, does it need to be removed from the circuit or both? I hit the 0.3uF lower limit too often.
How often do you find < 0.3 uF caps that are high in ESR or low in capacitance? In my experience ceramic and film caps are way more reliable than aluminium electrolytics.