Author Topic: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?  (Read 7388 times)

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Offline nctnico

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2023, 11:58:08 am »
I agree with the many prior posts that say that fast is good.  I have seen no specific statements about how fast is good enough.
For swiping pins you basically need less than 1 millisecond response time. Even a 1 millisecond pulse to a buzzer will produce an audible 'click' and that is what is needed when swiping pins.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline HogwildTopic starter

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2023, 03:15:41 am »
So, if no one knows whether Zotek has a meter with similar display but better continuity testing...
BTW, can someone please remind me that abbreviation they use for that type of display?

Can anyone tell me if there's another brand of meter with that type of display that has speedier continuity testing? I'd prefer something about $USD 70.00 or less.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2023, 03:35:59 am »
It is hard to find non photoshopped picture, but from what I can tell it is a simple inverted LCD with backlight. The inversion does not really add anything, and it is a gimmick mostly used by cheap meter to appear "cool". This is why there are no opinions on them - nobody can buy and try all that junk.

Backlight is the useful part here, it does make display more readable. And if you just focus on finding a good meter with backlight, it is likely to work for you.
Alex
 

Offline HogwildTopic starter

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2023, 03:58:47 am »
I saw this meter beside others that had strong backlights. It was not even close. As I said earlier upthread, I'm a bit of an unusual use case, as I have some vision loss due to disease.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2023, 04:05:48 am »
Well, they may have cranked up the backlight. Backlight is often a weak point, since it is the primary power drain. The type of display is still inverted LCD with backlight. Whether another meter exists with backlight that strong - hard to tell.
Alex
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2023, 04:07:14 am »
It's called "negative contrast" and pretty sure it's transreflective, meaning it needs a backlight but can sorta work with ambient lighting. I have a Mestek like that and I like it because the display glows and has much better readability than the usual LCD.

If you want superfast continuity checking, go analog, go audible.
There are no speed standards for multimeters other than watching a youtube review and speculation.
A proper test would involve switching on/off a resistance and measuring response time at the beeper.
Most DMM's clunk along auto-ranging which is the biggest time hog. Then the filtering and beep threshold time is there too.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2023, 04:55:21 am »
So, if no one knows whether Zotek has a meter with similar display but better continuity testing...

I'm not sure what the problem is. The meter certainly doesn't look slow in this video:

https://youtu.be/QYLISmyvlis?t=692


 

Offline HKJ

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2023, 07:38:22 am »
I agree with the many prior posts that say that fast is good.  I have seen no specific statements about how fast is good enough.
For swiping pins you basically need less than 1 millisecond response time. Even a 1 millisecond pulse to a buzzer will produce an audible 'click' and that is what is needed when swiping pins.

That depends on how fast you sweep, it can work with 10ms (That is 100 pins a second, but in praxis you will have to do it slower), but 100ms is too slow in my opinion.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2023, 08:36:43 am »
I agree with the many prior posts that say that fast is good.  I have seen no specific statements about how fast is good enough.
For swiping pins you basically need less than 1 millisecond response time. Even a 1 millisecond pulse to a buzzer will produce an audible 'click' and that is what is needed when swiping pins.

That depends on how fast you sweep, it can work with 10ms (That is 100 pins a second, but in praxis you will have to do it slower), but 100ms is too slow in my opinion.
No. Because the time the contact is actually made is much less than 10ms. Keep in mind pins typically have dirt on them that needs to be pierced through with the probe before making contact. 1ms really is a good number here.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2023, 11:55:38 am »
No. Because the time the contact is actually made is much less than 10ms.

Depends on how fast you sweep.

And really, on how often, too. If you only do it occasionally then you can do it a bit more carefully.
 

Offline alm

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2023, 12:59:51 pm »
Depends on how fast you sweep.

And really, on how often, too. If you only do it occasionally then you can do it a bit more carefully.
Having used both meters with fast and slow continuity, the difference is not between sweeping fast and slow, but the difference is between sweeping across a row of pins vs deliberately touching each pin in sequence making sure you pause at every pin. Because sweeping slowly across a fine pitch device is likely to still go quickly over some pins.

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2023, 01:25:14 pm »
Having used both meters with fast and slow continuity, the difference is not between sweeping fast and slow, but the difference is between sweeping across a row of pins vs deliberately touching each pin in sequence making sure you pause at every pin. Because sweeping slowly across a fine pitch device is likely to still go quickly over some pins.

If it's something you only do once a month then spend the money on something that you use daily. OP already has two meters, one that he says isn't slow.

(and I'm not seeing that this meter is...)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 01:28:40 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline mwb1100

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2023, 03:19:20 pm »
One thing that that I'm not sure has been mentioned before in this thread is that cheap meters often come with terrible probes.  Quite a few youtube reviews show meters that have terrible continuity response with the provided probes but instant response when quality probes such as Probe Master are used.  Often you can noticeably improve continuity response by just cleaning the probe tips with IPA.  Both of those "fixes" have worked for me.

I'd suggest first cleaning the probe tips with isopropyl alcohol.  If you still don't like the response you're getting, consider getting some quality probes.  You can get the basic Probe Master set for less than $30 shipped (to USA)

In my experience and as mentioned before, the ZT-Y's continuity isn't instantaneous, but it isn't particularly bad (when good probes are used).

(If you don't want to spring for Probe Master, these $6 generic Uni-T probes work well for continuity)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 03:28:44 pm by mwb1100 »
 

Offline HogwildTopic starter

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2023, 03:20:05 pm »
Already mentioned upthread.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2023, 11:51:22 pm »
If you want superfast continuity checking, go analog, go audible.
There are no speed standards for multimeters other than watching a youtube review and speculation.
A proper test would involve switching on/off a resistance and measuring response time at the beeper.
Most DMM's clunk along auto-ranging which is the biggest time hog. Then the filtering and beep threshold time is there too.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/dmm-continuity-tester-v1-0-better-than-clicking-probes-together!/

Example MARK Examples (minimum) at 250mS SPACE:
- Brymen BM257 = 38mS
- Fluke 85 III = 0.9mS
- Fluke 87 = 0.9mS
- Agilent 34405A = 25mS
- Keysight 34461A - 1mS (needs Space = 300mS)
- Agilent 34401A = 20mS, but will work lower but gives continious tone
- Brymen BM786 = Better than 0.01mS
- V&A VA38 = 0.1mS (beep varies in volume to point it's hardly audible though, obviously not using a fixed beep length)
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2023, 01:06:50 am »
Fluke 8060A:

 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2023, 02:36:09 am »
Cheater cheater pumpkin eater, Fluke 8060A is using an analog comparator for the continuity detect and oscillator.
Otherwise, the 8060A's dual-slope A/D "The total length of the measurement cycle is 400 ms. The length of the integrate period is fixed at 100 ms" a bit longer.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2023, 02:51:49 am »
Cheater cheater pumpkin eater, Fluke 8060A is using an analog comparator for the continuity detect and oscillator.
Otherwise, the 8060A's dual-slope A/D "The total length of the measurement cycle is 400 ms. The length of the integrate period is fixed at 100 ms" a bit longer.

Most meters with a fast bar graph have to have something to operate that bar graph at a much greater speed than the normal ADC circuit.  I can't imagine any DMM with 'fast' continuity actually using the ADC in it's normal configuration.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2023, 02:53:46 am »
Fluke 8060A:

Also note the variable threshold.  Not having any non-crap non-Fluke meters, I wonder if other brands typically have multiple continuity thresholds like that?
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2023, 03:24:28 am »
Fluke 8060A:
Also note the variable threshold.  Not having any non-crap non-Fluke meters, I wonder if other brands typically have multiple continuity thresholds like that?

Fluke using 10% of any ohms range for a value is just the H/W result of using a comparator and beeper that are always enabled.
I'm saying it's not a feature, who wants a beep on 20kΩ range with readings below 2kΩ? for example.

My old Beckman/Wavetek (manual range) will beep once and light up the ohms symbol if it sees resistance above the range you are on. I find that useful, telling you to range up.
One has a 20Ω/4mA range as well but I forgot the compliance voltage, and I haven't used it for a long time forgot what threshold that has.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2023, 04:04:50 pm »
The best continuity test of any meter I know, Brymens and Flukes included, is the $8 ANENG AN9205A.

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-aneng-an9205a.html

It's quite scratchy, the beeper is loud and it has a very bright LED on the front for continuity.

For that price you could tape one to the back of your workbench and just use it for that.

It consumes about 2mA in open continuity mode and about 13mA when beeping with the LED lit up. The battery will last a loooong time.

The only bummer is that it has APO and switches itself off after 40 minutes.  >:(

(dons asbestos underpants and waits for the meter nannies to tell me "it's unsafe!!")
« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 02:19:38 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2023, 05:29:23 pm »
I made a video of the AN9205A in action, with stock, never-cleaned probes:



Was I "zipping" fast enough???  :popcorn:
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2023, 12:19:17 am »
I did another test of the continuity on the AN9205A because I saw a flaw in my methodology on the previous one - by inserting the probe between the pins on the edge connector I was connecting with maybe two or three pins on the MCU - a big advantage.

This time I connected to a single pin and tried to beat the tester - and failed! I zipped so fast that the beep became almost too short to hear but it always flashed the LED (the LED is much brighter IRL than it seem in the video and is really easy to see).

I zipped about as fast as I could and it never failed once. It's not because I'm pressing hard, it does it with just the weight of the probe (see video). Who needs gold plating??  :-//



I tried the same test with mu Brymen and Fluke meters and they did OK but the bright LED is a big plus.

So.... I'm calling it, this is the best continuity tester of any meter.  :box:

Edit: I measured the threshold resistance, it beeps below 48 Ohms.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2023, 09:34:50 pm by Fungus »
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2023, 12:31:41 am »
I use the resistance measurement to check for continuity normally. It would tell me how good the continuilty is. I use the contnuity function when it's intermittent and it happens to quick to take a reading.

Same here--I was brought up on analog meters & don't trust "continuity", as many of them will still beep with 50 or so \$\Omega\$ resistance, which in some circuits may affect its function.

Another thing is, that with some DMMS, the diode test & continuity are the same functions, so any semiconductor junctions may be turned on. The resistance range is normally too low in voltage for this to happen.
 

Offline Caliaxy

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Re: Why do we want fast continuity detection in a multimeter?
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2023, 03:26:47 am »
In many of the Dave's reviews, we watch him check the continuity test function of a meter by shorting the two leads and listening for how quickly the meter beeps. Faster is better, apparently.

Instant gratification. Kids these days…
 
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