Author Topic: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?  (Read 2082 times)

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Offline ErikTheNorwegian

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Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« on: October 15, 2020, 10:58:11 pm »
Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
Just would be so handy from time to time..
/Erik
Goooood karma is flowing..
 

Online SilverSolder

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 12:06:55 am »

I use a PC on my workbench, and pipe the oscilloscope data into it.  There, I can use any number of cool tools to manipulate the data.  Including the calculator!  :D
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 02:40:47 am »
Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
Just would be so handy from time to time..

Micsigs do. They're Android tablets and have all sorts of built in electronics calculators plus you can install your own Apps if you want to.

 

Online rvalente

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 02:44:40 am »
Even if they did, you would complain that the app is not resourceful enough (e.g. why can't the tek scope screen calc calculate pcb impedance track)

Also, using a touch screen is terrible experience, using a angled touch screen with a light weight instrument with poor digitizer is even worst ahahha...

I se no reason why scopes need a touch interface, is cool and all but, mehhh, no need at all.

Finally, we all have our phones near us pretty much all the time
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2020, 04:44:44 am »
Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
Just would be so handy from time to time..

Because everyone who do anything serious in lab have HP15C or HP34C (or some other) on the board. Calculator need have real keyboard and keyboard need also work so there is not so many. Today no one make anymore this quality.
Scope screen is not at all optimal for calculator app. Perhaps worst place for calculator what I can ever think.

In lab there need be calculator always available, perhaps also Slide Rule is useful not only for calculus but for mind-visual estimations and interpolations. 
Because calculator need is common in lab what ever you do, why then need some extra toy on scope screen. In my lab scope is still only on tiny part of total time...  so I need calculator and it need be so I can take it to my hand and it need have real and really good keyboard so example phone is just dropped out totally.
So, there is three possibilities. HP, then HP and also HP.  But, not these modern graphical 30, 40, 50 etc G series some models. Least I do not accept these.  It need also note that these have quite low EMI so they can use only in rf silent room.
There is many of these better (old) models but sadly Keysight do not make them anymore at all after "LadyHP" destroy old original Hewlett-Packard what name is now nearly nothing, doing only things what whoever can do, just competiting deperately in mass markets like many many others.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:47:25 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline wizard69

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2020, 07:07:39 am »
Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
Just would be so handy from time to time..

This is a good question.  I'd rather see a scope that gave me access to a full Linux desktop where I can install the tools of my choice.   One alternative is to build your lab around a PC using PC based instruments.

Now here is the old fashion approach: solar power calculators and Velcro tape.   This might sound odd but it has worked on a production floor to solve a lot of math mistakes.   Being solar powered they last for years and cost almost nothing.   Imagine a production floor with solar powered calculators stuck all over the place.
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2020, 07:48:38 am »
In lab there need be calculator always available

It is many years ago I have needed a calculator in my lab, instead I have a PC with a calculator app. It is not the silly versions with buttons you need to press, but with a line where you can type you expression. I have put one in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/
 

Offline Fixpoint

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2020, 08:09:36 am »
Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?

Because that's not within the scope (pun intended).

Sometimes, it may look useful to have one device that does it all. But normally, multilple specialist devices will do it better. This holds in particular for a calculator because good calculators are actually not that simple.

Finally, that is how the dreaded bloat starts. You begin with something that looks reasonably small, simple and useful. But more feature requests will come in. And then, you end up with crap.

Whenever you build something that is used by people, it is absolutely certain that someone will come to you and ask "couldn't it also do X?" while someone else will ask you "couldn't it also do Y?". You have to tell them "no, that would be another product, let's keep this one simple and efficient".

It's funny: In another thread, people recently complained about bloat, and in this thread they go in exactly the opposite direction.

Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
Just would be so handy from time to time..

I'd rather see a scope that gave me access to a full Linux desktop where I can install the tools of my choice.

Fascinating idea ... an instrument that is not hardwired for a particular purpose but that can be tasked with whatever the user wants and that runs a full general-purpose OS ... wait a minute. That's been around for decades. It's called a PC. So ... if you don't need a scope but a PC, why do you use a scope and not a digitizer card?

You cannot just take an oscilloscope and install "tools of your choice" because that would spur the question how these tools would interact (1) with each other and (2) with the rest of the system. Example: what should happen when a trigger is detected while the user is using a custom tool, but a second tool is configured to come to the foreground when a trigger is detected? This question sounds simple, but it is not. The result might not be what the user wants. We know from other extendable systems how difficult it is to design a system where all parts (which are not known at design time because they don't exist yet) interact nicely even without having been designed for doing so.
 
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2020, 08:48:20 am »
You cannot just take an oscilloscope and install "tools of your choice"

Strange, we do this all the time ;)

Not all scopes are based on a low-cost embedded platform with limited storage and memory.
 

Offline Le_Bassiste

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2020, 09:23:54 am »

Because everyone who do anything serious in lab have HP15C or HP34C (or some other) on the board. Calculator need have real keyboard and keyboard need also work so there is not so many. Today no one make anymore this quality.
Scope screen is not at all optimal for calculator app. Perhaps worst place for calculator what I can ever think.

In lab there need be calculator always available, perhaps also Slide Rule is useful not only for calculus but for mind-visual estimations and interpolations. 
Because calculator need is common in lab what ever you do, why then need some extra toy on scope screen. In my lab scope is still only on tiny part of total time...  so I need calculator and it need be so I can take it to my hand and it need have real and really good keyboard so example phone is just dropped out totally.
So, there is three possibilities. HP, then HP and also HP.  But, not these modern graphical 30, 40, 50 etc G series some models. Least I do not accept these.  It need also note that these have quite low EMI so they can use only in rf silent room.

aaah, some profound wisdom on this forum! 
 

Online coromonadalix

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 10:34:50 am »
Another future going nowhere thread ....   

 

Offline Fixpoint

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 12:18:37 pm »
You cannot just take an oscilloscope and install "tools of your choice"

Strange, we do this all the time ;)

Not all scopes are based on a low-cost embedded platform with limited storage and memory.

Are you talking about a scope that is actually just a PC running Linux or some embedded Windows packaged in the scope form factor? Or are you talking about a scope in the actual sense of the word (so, not a general-purpose PC dressed up as a scope) that allows this kind of customization?

In the first case, yes, that's not a surprise. But I would be a bit surprised in the latter case.
 

Offline luma

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2020, 02:14:06 pm »
A real hacker would feed in the input values as voltages and then use the math functions of their scope to display the answer :D
 
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Offline Joel_l

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2020, 02:43:07 pm »
I "think" my old Tek 11320A had a basic on screen calculator. The fact I only vaguely recall means I never used it.

I have an HP15C I bought when they first came out on my bench. I think it's on its second set of batteries......
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2020, 03:40:25 pm »
I have an HP15C I bought when they first came out on my bench. I think it's on its second set of batteries......

I prefer the 11C. KISS.

I have one of the original ones with the data entry bug.

I do like the horizontal format of the Voyagers but the HP20S is really the one to go for, IMHO. They really got all the buttons in the right place on that one and it's a computing beast (12 digits and exponents to 10^500).

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2020, 04:12:57 pm »
This is a good question.  I'd rather see a scope that gave me access to a full Linux desktop where I can install the tools of my choice.   One alternative is to build your lab around a PC using PC based instruments.

A 'scope with built-in X11 server and command line C++ compiler would be awesome.
 

Online J-R

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 04:01:30 am »
Yes to "old" HP calculators.  My HP48gx lives on the electronics bench...
 

Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 05:54:38 am »
Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
Just would be so handy from time to time..

Fun idea, don't worry about the haters! I'll pass it along to R&D as an FYI. It sounds like something that could get implemented at an internal hackathon or as a pet project for someone in their "down" time. I personally have a graphing calculator on my desk at all times (and a phone), but that doesn't mean I wouldn't use an internal one if it existed.
 
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Offline george.b

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 06:03:34 am »
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think touchscreens are vile. I wouldn't use an oscilloscope calculator thing, that's what I have my HP48 for. Mmmm, buttons.
 

Online SilverSolder

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2020, 03:21:40 pm »
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think touchscreens are vile. I wouldn't use an oscilloscope calculator thing, that's what I have my HP48 for. Mmmm, buttons.

Touchscreens are OK for some applications, but sometimes they are used just to save money by not providing proper tactile buttons as well.   The car industry has more or less come full circle on this and are back to tactile buttons again.  Hopefully there will be at least one smart scope manufacturer that doesn't cheap out completely!
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2020, 03:52:39 pm »
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think touchscreens are vile. I wouldn't use an oscilloscope calculator thing, that's what I have my HP48 for. Mmmm, buttons.

h8r.

Touchscreens are OK for some applications, but sometimes they are used just to save money by not providing proper tactile buttons as well.   The car industry has more or less come full circle on this and are back to tactile buttons again.  Hopefully there will be at least one smart scope manufacturer that doesn't cheap out completely!

Micsigs have both. And a calculator app. And electronics calculations.



And a web browser... and a complete office suite. But let's not hold that against them.  >:D




« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 04:15:55 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline wd5jfr

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2020, 04:19:14 pm »
If you keep your iPhone handy all you need to do is say "Hey Siri, what is the two times the square root of pi? and she will answer verbally plus display  the answer to about 30 decimal points.
Better yet if you get hurt or have a fire you can have her call 911.
The iPhone is always listening.
A local old guy went for a walk, fell down while trying to cross a ditch and could barely move and  his iPhone fell out of reach but he remembered that Siri would still work and had her call 911 and he was rescued.
Hank
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2020, 05:07:44 pm »
A local old guy went for a walk, fell down while trying to cross a ditch and could barely move and  his iPhone fell out of reach but he remembered that Siri would still work and had her call 911 and he was rescued.

He obviously doesn't own enough Apple products. If he'd been wearing the watch it would have called 911 all by itself.

 

Offline wd5jfr

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2020, 11:27:49 pm »


He obviously doesn't own enough Apple products. If he'd been wearing the watch it would have called 911 all by itself.
[/quote]

I'll be 80 in Dec and been thinking of getting an Apple watch except that I'll have to violate one of my retirement tenets    of not having to wear a watch anymore.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Why don't the touch scopes have a calculator app?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2020, 01:43:28 am »
I'll be 80 in Dec and been thinking of getting an Apple watch except that I'll have to violate one of my retirement tenets    of not having to wear a watch anymore.

Maybe you can rig something up with an Arduino and some mercury tilt switches.
 


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