EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: MiroS on June 14, 2017, 09:13:23 pm
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I have repaired this month two of 50 y. old polish metters Meratronik V-640 for their beauty and features (DC up to 1500V, AC up to 1GHz etc. etc.), repaired 20 y. old (or more ?) Solartonic 7150 looking like taken from old James Bond/Fanthomas or Luis de Funes films. Next two french meters are on the way to me.
If I look at Fluke 87V which is close to age of perviousely mentioned meters or new Brymen , or not yet released 121GW, or top Gossen meter ... they not look like a beaty , they also lacking many of features making them very unique. Stupid question - why it is so?
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This thread is useless without pictures!
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The fact that shoppers will cross shop different vendors to save 0.01% on the purchase price probably has something to do with it.
Engineering elegance can sometimes be free (or negative cost), but physical elegance is almost never free.
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It looks like you need to be an expert tanner, carpenter and blacksmith to restore one of those suckers. It's got that "1960's transistor radio" look to it. That's not my scene. I cannot imagine lugging one of those things around. Give me a modern, light-weight digital meter.
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Just go with the flow, form follows function.
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IP67 rating just requires more mink oil.
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Most multimeters today appear to be geared to look like a womans body with extended hips and booty
or ergonomically shaped to fit in the hand like a Macburger or big **** :clap:
The manufacturers have obviously bought into the -follow the leader- 'sex sells' absurdity their coked closet perverts in the marketing department are flogging to half asleep CEOs :=\ :=\ :=\
I'll buy and use the meter that does the job, be it elegant, ugly, old school, whatever
If I need to display professionalism to clueless corporat clipboard wielders,
I bring along the Flukes to help them achieve their tickbox check 0rgasms quicker :-DMM :-DMM :-DMM
and let me get on with the crummy JOB the 'last guy' -who works cheaper-, apparently screwed up BIG TIME :palm: |O
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I don't know that I agree, but this is highly subjective stuff. Personally I think 87V looks great. Wanting to cram all kinds of features on 87V misses the point of 87V. It's supposed to be a streamlined meter with quickly accessible features (except for the current measurement defaulting to AC is annoying for electronics). It's definitely a design where form follows function, some modern and not so modern bench DMMs also look great imo.
(http://i.imgur.com/h8N5M0Z.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/miPkvAz.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/nvYvlS4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bBOtPgX.jpg)
Vintage Simpson Multimeters look great:
(http://i.imgur.com/C3EZC0i.jpg)
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As beautiful as those old meters look, it probably can't take as much shock or water ingress as my modern-day non-beautiful Fluke 28-II. The new non-beautiful meters have a rubber surround that helps to absorb the impact, and of course, all the non-beauty makes for a cheaper meter with cheaper and modern day manufacturing techniques.
I would much rather have a non-beautiful meter take the blow than a beautiful one. It's test gear, after all.
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The Fluke 87 and 28 are exempt from my previous blab above, they are practical modern meters for lab and field use
87 was around before the eye candy and battery hogging BS started, and still one of my GO TO meters after 20 years
Awesome hardware Muxr :-+ :clap:
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If you want art, then buy art. Beauty in a tool or instrument is when it is made with great ergonomics, good user interface and is made to last. That is what makes a multimeter beautiful, not fashion colors and ornate design.
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For example lets look at his accuracy wise, this varies between 0.02-0.01% for most measurements(no ac voltage) which is inline with high end handhelds, now compare its size to those. Which would you rather carry around...I know my choice, not the esi...(almost bought one, dealer backed out)
(http://www.torontosurplus.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_1996.jpg)
http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/esi/300pvb (http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/esi/300pvb)
or
(http://media.rs-online.com/t_large/R3437332-20.jpg)
The Gossen would be my choice.
https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/resources/tt/hit30m/ba_gb.pdf (https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/resources/tt/hit30m/ba_gb.pdf)
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I think I know what you mean, but, OP, please post some pictures. Just finished restoring a 100 old Weston ammeter, still in spec. Let me shoot some photos...
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Oh, not so fast please. Why modern meter cannot look like beauty and still be functinal / robust ? Whatever you want to have, but this funeral form or 'lady like' , this keeping me away from this meters. I use them because I have to, but if I can use other than those , I take beauty in place of 'brick' or 'coffin'.
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Some of us hear you MiroS :-+
I have an analogue AVO meter and a monster SANWA multimeter,
not only do they look awesome and take up too much space in my lunchbox,
I KNOW they will still work without batteries, be ACCURATE ENOUGH,
and not require any more firmware updates, board revisions,
or colorful 'anti-carpet surfing' components on the front end
I also use them to check that my Fluke meters :-DMM :-DMM are not getting lazy on the job ;D
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The Gossen would be my choice.
Did you watch Joe's videos (yes, plural) on Gossen 30M? I wouldn't buy that one after so many bugs are revealed, just by a single YouTuber in his free time.
I think I will still use my repaired F289 for another (half?) decade, until it decides to die on another day. Let's see which one lives longer, top Fluke vs top Keysight.
Don't plan obsolescence based on longevity, if my Fluke experience is anything to go by, my 77 (Mk1) is still going strong, it was second hand when I bought it and I've owned it for 30 years I think.
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For example lets look at his accuracy wise, this varies between 0.02-0.01% for most measurements(no ac voltage) which is inline with high end handhelds, now compare its size to those. Which would you rather carry around...I know my choice, not the esi...(almost bought one, dealer backed out)
(http://www.torontosurplus.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_1996.jpg)
http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/esi/300pvb (http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/esi/300pvb)
or
(http://media.rs-online.com/t_large/R3437332-20.jpg)
The Gossen would be my choice.
https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/resources/tt/hit30m/ba_gb.pdf (https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/resources/tt/hit30m/ba_gb.pdf)
I got one of those 30m on its way to me, my cousin in Germany is sending it. :)
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Don't plan obsolescence based on longevity, if my Fluke experience is anything to go by, my 77 (Mk1) is still going strong, it was second hand when I bought it and I've owned it for 30 years I think.
I think you missed my other threads ranting on F298's leaky MOVs and Tek cal center's leaky battery which has its juice made its way to my F289.
So long story short, either the leaked battery or the poor MOV selection made my F289 to leak (~350 MOhm in Ohms range without test leads attached), and no one is paying for the repair. I just got a $248+tax+shipping bill yesterday for fixing bugs that should be sorted out by someone in Danaher Group.
Ouch, yeah, I may have read them but not remembered it was yours...
Have to say, I don't like the much newer 179 I bought to allow me to retire the 77
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The Gossen would be my choice.
Did you watch Joe's videos (yes, plural) on Gossen 30M? I wouldn't buy that one after so many bugs are revealed, just by a single YouTuber in his free time.
He used a Metrahit Ultra, not a 30M.
I think I will still use my repaired F289 for another (half?) decade, until it decides to die on another day. Let's see which one lives longer, top Fluke vs top Keysight.
As an owner of a Fluke 27/FM, a former owner of a 179 and now with three Keysights in hand (1233A, 1273A and 1282A), I can tell the Fluke seems to be physically more rigid and with tighter tolerances on the rotary dial. How that translates to the physical survivability of the meter only time can tell. Electrical survivability is another story, as both brands have great front ends but as you travel further into the lower voltage electronics I can't help but imagine that its complexity starts to impact this factor (especially as you move higher in the food chain).
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The Gossen would be my choice.
Did you watch Joe's videos (yes, plural) on Gossen 30M? I wouldn't buy that one after so many bugs are revealed, just by a single YouTuber in his free time.
I think I will still use my repaired F289 for another (half?) decade, until it decides to die on another day. Let's see which one lives longer, top Fluke vs top Keysight.
In a serious 'knock down drag em out' real world lab and field usage and -abusage- , the current style Flukes will survive better in the long run, even the 289 with it's few annoyances.
Every meter has it's quirks and bugs, I find the Flukes have the least to remember.
FWIW since watching Mr JQS videos I no longer carpet surf with any meter! :o
The Keysites are nice though 8) if you can afford the batteries and security guards ;D
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If you want horrid look at old HP gear. Like the 6023B dc power supply. Some stuff just looks like it was designed by a psychotic looking to kill someone.
Imagine how bad the 34401A would look if the dark screen tint was only directly over the display. :scared: take an inch off both sides of the tint plastic and it suddenly looks like... i dont know how to even put it into words. the 5.5 digit meter HP made before it was also ultra horrid. 3478A... it looks like the HP34401A was a prostitute after a night of drinking and no makeup that is severely dehydrated.....
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The Keysites are nice though 8) if you can afford the batteries and security guards ;D
So far my U1461A is doing well, but the firmware is a bit quirky, and the polycarbonate screen is really easy to leave a scratch.
Test leads are not that good, especially considering the 2 sets of extra fine tips are both DOA. Considering I got the $930 meter for only $760 and I got an extra set of test lead kit, I'm okay with this minor quality issue.
No observable hardware issues inside the meter at this moment, and I certainly hope it doesn't have a hidden HW bug.
One thing I'm happy about it is came with a set of lithium batteries. Energizer guarantees their lithium batteries to never leak.
I don't trust any battery products any more,
I have a phone reminder that alerts me once a year to change smoke detector batteries and go through all battery driven devices and change if suspicious or near the use by date.
I find some cheapies perform just as well as the hyped brands.
I would suggest to store the Energizer packaging and receipt in case they do leak, so you have some ground to stand on and see if they pay out.
Parking unused meters in a manner so the battery leaks away from the board gives you borrowed time too :-+
How about some of that clear screen protector stuff they put on mobile phones? should work :-//
I use clear all weather tape for years, not the greatest clarity, but does the job to protect the screen
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I don't trust any battery products any more,
I try to think the brighter side.
From Energizer website (for non lithium batteries):
Energizer will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by leakage from Energizer MAX® Alkaline batteries either during the life of the battery or within two years following the full use of the battery.
From Energizer website (for lithium batteries):
Energizer® Ultimate Lithium™ Batteries are GUARANTEED NOT TO LEAK. Due to advanced technology, Ultimate lithium™ batteries will not leak under normal consumer usage.
yeah, good luck getting them to honor that...let's see how that goes for you...
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Here is the thing I was cleaning up lately. I don't think modern instruments should look like steam punk, but in my book this is beautifully designed. Also whoever built it wasn't skimping on quality materials and craftsmanship. Who oxidizes brass purple-pink and uses matching woods? Only that and the magnifying glass cutoff to expose the polished internals probably increased the cost by 10%. It's also in spec after 100 years...
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How about some of that clear screen protector stuff they put on mobile phones? should work :-//
Yep. I'm a big fan of chopping up those screen protectors and sticking them on things.
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I have repaired this month two of 50 y. old polish metters Meratronik V-640 for their beauty and features (DC up to 1500V, AC up to 1GHz etc. etc.), repaired 20 y. old (or more ?) Solartonic 7150 looking like taken from old James Bond/Fanthomas or Luis de Funes films. Next two french meters are on the way to me.
If I look at Fluke 87V which is close to age of perviousely mentioned meters or new Brymen , or not yet released 121GW, or top Gossen meter ... they not look like a beaty , they also lacking many of features making them very unique. Stupid question - why it is so?
Well this entire question is based on accepting the premise that old meters were beautiful and modern ones aren't. But is that true?
I happen to find lots of old gear rather hideous. Some is great, some I think they should have laid off the weed and acid while working on the industrial design. And the same applies today. For today's handhelds, I like Fluke and Brymen's designs. For bench, Rohde & Schwarz.
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I got one of those 30m on its way to me, my cousin in Germany is sending it. :)
I was thinking about that movie "My Cousin Vinny", but that was in the US and not in Germany :)
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So far my U1461A is doing well, but the firmware is a bit quirky, and the polycarbonate screen is really easy to leave a scratch.
How about some of that clear screen protector stuff they put on mobile phones? should work :-//
I use clear all weather tape for years, not the greatest clarity, but does the job to protect the screen
Why not try to protect the screen with a Titanium Anti-Scratch coating from Nano Armor :)
http://www.nanoarmor.com.my/product/titanium-anti-scratch (http://www.nanoarmor.com.my/product/titanium-anti-scratch)
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I don't trust any battery products any more,
I try to think the brighter side.
From Energizer website (for non lithium batteries):
Energizer will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by leakage from Energizer MAX® Alkaline batteries either during the life of the battery or within two years following the full use of the battery.
From Energizer website (for lithium batteries):
Energizer® Ultimate Lithium™ Batteries are GUARANTEED NOT TO LEAK. Due to advanced technology, Ultimate lithium™ batteries will not leak under normal consumer usage.
yeah, good luck getting them to honor that...let's see how that goes for you...
"...under normal consumer usage."
there's one loophole right there :clap:
keep that receipt and packaging if you want any chance for a payout on a trashed big dollars meter!
and less likely having to explain that your 'normal' was their 'normal'
but the batteries leaked anyway |O
Just remembered that I've seen these Enerjizzzers leak BADLY in an insulation tester that took 6 AAs
All of them had crapped out badly, luckily the compartment was fairly well isolated,
and I got a good meter CHEAP plus elbow grease expenses lol