Why So Expensive?

[PixieDust]

After watching some of Dave's multimeter videos, I can't help but wonder what you are paying for in expensive multimeters like Gossen or Fluke? Dave suggest a $50 multimeter is all you need. So the question is, how does a x10 or a x20 fold price increase get justified? What is in these top of the line units?

[james_s]

It's kind of the difference between a Hyundai and a Mercedes or Aston-Martin, the cheap economy car will get you around just fine and a beginning driver would be foolish to blow a lot of money on a high end luxury car, but if you do a lot of driving or can afford it, a higher end car offers more comfort and better performance. Some of it is the prestige of the name but that's not all of it.

[don.r]

Look at some of joe smith's videos on youtube. You pay for what you get when it comes to DMMs particulary for protection when you do something stupid. Brymen DMMs seem to stand out for value-for-money. Flukes are too expensive, IMO, although the $45 Chinese Fluke 101 appears to be a decent meter.

[don.r]

It's kind of the difference between a Hyundai and a Mercedes or Aston-Martin, the cheap economy car will get you around just fine and a beginning driver would be foolish to blow a lot of money on a high end luxury car, but if you do a lot of driving or can afford it, a higher end car offers more comfort and better performance. Some of it is the prestige of the name but that's not all of it.

Not the best analogy since Hyundai's have proven to be more reliable than Mercedes and WAY more reliable than Aston's. 

[DaJMasta]

It's also the case with virtually everything, higher performance linearly increases price exponentially, you can get good functionality and performance from a $50 meter, but you can't get anything close to double the features and performance for $100.  Let's say you drop $1000 on a nice 6.5 digit bench meter, well getting one more digit worth of accuracy is going to be double the price, at least, and getting that last 8th digit is double that price again, minimum.... but that's also about the limit you can get out of a benchtop instrument without really exotic measurement techniques in laboratory conditions.



The justification is if you need the performance, otherwise, you're just spending for your own interest or for a bit better build quality or whatever.  Most people don't need a really fancy meter, but there is the occasional application that needs a very high precision meter, and the price reflects of the difficulty of making it and the much lower volume of sales.

[james_s]

Not the best analogy since Hyundai's have proven to be more reliable than Mercedes and WAY more reliable than Aston's. 

Virtually all cars are reliable now, obviously luxury cars have more to go wrong though, also a lot of cheap meters are plenty reliable. Anyway there's more to it than reliability, and you can insert whatever expensive and cheap brands you want, the effect is the same. High end products tend to offer better specs, better materials, better fit & finish, all around better experience. 

[BravoV]

Sometimes its just a matter of few seconds that makes huge different in your career or your life ... imagine an ongoing investigation of an accident happened that may cause multi millions law suit or fine, and probably jail time too because of negligence.

Investigator : What tool are you using ?
You : Fluke/Gossen or any other 1st tier brands.
Investigator : Are you sure they are compliant with <bla..bla..> insert your fav red tapes ...safety regulation here ... 
You : Yeah .... (answered with confident)

... you're free and happily walk out without any problem ...

[Brumby]

I've mentioned this before - but it is worth repeating...

Many, many years ago I had a guitarist friend that wanted to get "the best" multimeter.  Not knowing a lot about DMMs back then, I resorted to the one brand I did know: Fluke.  He then went hunting for information and settled on a model that had a price tag in the $700 range back in the 70s.  One of his first measurements was to check his household mains current.  (If your head is exploding right now - you got it right.)

When I got the call that his new meter wasn't working I went over to see what had happened.  When he showed me, I was glad he'd gone for the Fluke.

While this was an error out of ignorance, similar errors - albeit for other reasons - would still have potentially catastrophic outcomes.  Safeguards against such events are one (rather worthwhile) reason for the cost.

[MosherIV]

Similar to Blueskull's comments:
You are paying for quality components,
Engineering design time and expertise,
After sales support

[Shock]

After watching some of Dave's multimeter videos, I can't help but wonder what you are paying for in expensive multimeters like Gossen or Fluke? Dave suggest a $50 multimeter is all you need. So the question is, how does a x10 or a x20 fold price increase get justified? What is in these top of the line units?

All you need to do basic electronics and get started. Is better worth it? I think not, the most I've paid is about $100 secondhand which is fine for what I need. But then I'd not buy a new $50 meter, or even a $10 one unless it was an upgrade. While they appear to be a bargain, the cheaper brands aren't as reliable.

[PixieDust]

Got it, thanks everyone.

[Kleinstein]

With and held meters a main difference is the safety / protection in case something goes wrong. A cheap meter is OK for low voltage / low power, but but these is already some risk to use them on a normal mains outlet, especially for someone who does not know about the risks. The CAT ratings on cheap Chinese meters are often fake.

With bench top meters the main difference is accuracy. Higher accuracy can get quite expensive - like double (more like x 4) for every extra digit. Besides expensive parts, the other factor is production quantities going down at the high end.

One can get around quite a lot with a cheap meter. A better meter is usually safer and may be easier to use (e.g. less thinking about the limitations).

[Fungus]

After watching some of Dave's multimeter videos, I can't help but wonder what you are paying for in expensive multimeters like Gossen or Fluke?

That's like asking what you get in a $100 designer t-shirt instead of a $5 t-shirt.

The answer is: A $5 t-shirt is fine at home but you don't want to be in a night-club wearing a no-brand t-shirt.

Dave suggest a $50 multimeter is all you need. So the question is, how does a x10 or a x20 fold price increase get justified? What is in these top of the line units?

Inside? Nothing special. All the "special" is on the outside.

eg. Brymen will sell you a meter with better insides (better safety, better accuracy, equally reliable and more features) for half the price but:
a) It won't be yellow
b) Not many people outside these forums have even heard of Brymen.

If you need brand recognition then it has to be Fluke. If it's just for you to use then there's better brands out there.

Investigator : What tool are you using ?
You : Fluke/Gossen or any other 1st tier brands.
Investigator : Are you sure they are compliant with <bla..bla..> insert your fav red tapes ...safety regulation here ... 
You : Yeah .... (answered with confident)

... you're free and happily walk out without any problem ...

If you're employed as an accident investigator then Flukes aren't expensive.

For home users? Yes they are.

[nctnico]

I've mentioned this before - but it is worth repeating...

Many, many years ago I had a guitarist friend that wanted to get "the best" multimeter.  Not knowing a lot about DMMs back then, I resorted to the one brand I did know: Fluke.  He then went hunting for information and settled on a model that had a price tag in the $700 range back in the 70s.  One of his first measurements was to check his household mains current.  (If your head is exploding right now - you got it right.)

When I got the call that his new meter wasn't working I went over to see what had happened.  When he showed me, I was glad he'd gone for the Fluke.

While this was an error out of ignorance, similar errors - albeit for other reasons - would still have potentially catastrophic outcomes.  Safeguards against such events are one (rather worthwhile) reason for the cost.

I agree. For working on mains I only use an A-brand multimeter.

[SparkyFX]

If the goal is to increase safety for everyone, then the pricing is counter intuitive, as the cheapos are what a beginner buys and beginners make more mistakes.

Anyway, for commercial use you might be able to write it off tax, then price does not matter that much. Then there is just statistically the more often it is used, the more likely is the need for safety features.

If you are an employer you might be in a better situation in case of any liability issues regarding work accidents with higher grade tools, that have all proper documentation wherever you are, where the manufacturer has an interest to be on this market.

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

If the goal is to increase safety for everyone, then the pricing is counter intuitive, as the cheapos are what a beginner buys and beginners make more mistakes.

Anyway, for commercial use you might be able to write it off tax, then price does not matter that much. Then there is just statistically the more often it is used, the more likely is the need for safety features.

If you are an employer you might be in a better situation in case of any liability issues regarding work accidents with higher grade tools, that have all proper documentation wherever you are, where the manufacturer has an interest to be on this market.

It depends on the field, but in the realm of T&M equipment, fluke handheld multimeters are cheap. They are the type of things bought on startup of a lab in bulk, with good deals.

They are proven workhorses that are reliable. I have never known a fluke at our lab to have failed (sure, people blow the shit out of the fuses, but pop in a new fuse and you are good to go). Losing a day of work because a multimeter turns out to be out of spec or something is way more expensive than what a fluke actually costs.

I think it is hard to say a brymen is equally or more reliable. They might turn out to be, but they have not been on the market for long enough to prove that.

[Fungus]

I think it is hard to say a brymen is equally or more reliable. They might turn out to be, but they have not been on the market for long enough to prove that.

EEVBLOG member Joe Smith has beaten on Brymens more than enough to believe they're as reliable/robust as Flukes are.

But yeah, "Nobody ever got fired for buying a Fluke".

(paraphrased)

[james_s]

I like Fluke because they are or at least were made right here in the USA. Just a few miles from me actually.

[shakalnokturn]

If you're playing with low voltages and low currents, sure a 50$ DMM will get you far, even then for 50$ expect a lot of quality and functionality variation.

I go mostly go for 50$ DMM's, not cheap new far-far east ones but used ones that used to cost over 4x the price when introduced. I want them to be reliable over time, hard to destroy be it electrically or from falling from my height.

My favourites for build quality are Fluke, AEMC, Gossen.
I have a Brymen, nice meter, not my favourite for build quality, the main reason it gets used is that it will measure over 1kV without grumbling about an overvoltage.

[james_s]

Something else to consider is that amortized over time even an expensive meter is not that much money. I think I paid a bit under $400 for my Fluke 87 something like 10 years ago. I use it almost every day, it's easily the most used tool I own, that's only around $40 a year and it's still almost like new and going strong.

[Fungus]

Something else to consider is that amortized over time even an expensive meter is not that much money. I think I paid a bit under $400 for my Fluke 87 something like 10 years ago. I use it almost every day, it's easily the most used tool I own, that's only around $40 a year and it's still almost like new and going strong.

That doesn't stop the initial outlay from hurting though.

[Fungus]

The "Chinese" Flukes (15B+/17B+) are also really well built and plenty good enough for most EE work.

You could start there if you really, really want a yellow meter so you can see what the fuss is about.

[Black Phoenix]

The "Chinese" Flukes (15B+/17B+) are also really well built and plenty good enough for most EE work.

You could start there if you really, really want a yellow meter so you can see what the fuss is about.

Agreed. I had a 17+ in my hand 1 Week Ago and I was expecting that models to be the size of the old Fluke 110, 111, 112 but no, they are giant, not as big as the 287/289 but a little not much smaller than the 87V. Robust, nice screen and a nice selector wheel.

It's a Fluke, it doesn't matter were it is manufactured if the quality is the same. To be sincere the Made in USA should be Assembled in USA with Components from other countries.

[james_s]

Something else to consider is that amortized over time even an expensive meter is not that much money. I think I paid a bit under $400 for my Fluke 87 something like 10 years ago. I use it almost every day, it's easily the most used tool I own, that's only around $40 a year and it's still almost like new and going strong.

That doesn't stop the initial outlay from hurting though.

Someone told me once "buy good tools and only cry once" I've mostly stuck to that and rarely ever regretted spending too much on a tool. I have regretted buying the cheap one many times though.

That said, I don't recommend a noob run out and buy high end tools. Start with something modest and treat yourself to something nice later on once you're able to appreciate what it offers.

[GreyWoolfe]

Someone told me once "buy good tools and only cry once" I've mostly stuck to that and rarely ever regretted spending too much on a tool. I have regretted buying the cheap one many times though.

Glad I am not the only one who thinks like that.  I made the same comment in a soldering iron thread and was told that is no longer relevant.  Balderdash, it is relevant.  Buy smart and buy right.  That said, I do have a Fluke 101 in my company van.  Works perfectly for what I need and is bang on with my DMM Check +.  Then again, my modified ANENG 8008 and 8009 matches my Fluke 3478's on voltage (not so much on resistance).  I have shopped well on the used market and have a Fluke 27F/M, GW Instek GDM8251A and 2 HP 3478A meters, bought for under $100 USD each.  Also have 2 HP 3446A meters bought for less than $50 USD each.  Everything is in spec with the DMM Check.  There is no reason not to buy well in the used market if you practice patience.  I would buy a new Fluke 87V if I could afford one, but I bought 4 meters for the price.