Author Topic: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?  (Read 16592 times)

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Offline abraxa

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2018, 08:06:51 am »
Don't overthink this. You can't go wrong with the Rigol and if I were in your position, I'd make sure to act fast.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2018, 08:20:43 am »
Don't overthink this. You can't go wrong with the Rigol and if I were in your position, I'd make sure to act fast.

+1  Rigol order is going in now.  Way I look at this.  I'm driving across the desert.  I could drive a Rolls Royce or a Model T ford.  If I need assistance (which I'm sure I will), I'd like to be driving something lots of other people will have and know how to fix.  Seems like "everyone" has a Rigol....  Easy to someone who will know how to assist me.

One feature I really want are the frame/protocol decoders used in Arduino.  SPI, RS-232/UART. 

I can't thank everyone enough for assisting.  As Dave would say, "Bob's your uncle"  . 



 

 
 

Online BravoV

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2018, 08:30:03 am »
+1  Rigol order is going in now.  Way I look at this.  I'm driving across the desert.  I could drive a Rolls Royce or a Model T ford.  If I need assistance (which I'm sure I will), I'd like to be driving something lots of other people will have and know how to fix.  Seems like "everyone" has a Rigol....  Easy to someone who will know how to assist me.

Wise move.  :-+

Yes, you've identified another hidden value of owning a popular gadget, especially in this electronic tinkerers lair.  >:D

Cause once these "tons" of owners of this scope's warranty are expired, I believe you will see lots of these "tinkerers" will start to do self repair if its repairable of course, and I'm quite confident these tips/tricks on common problems on this aged scope model will be shared here. This condition is a perfect fits in for hobbyist level or owners with limited budget that can not afford the so called maintenance contract to extend the scope's warranty.

My 2 cents worth, and have fun.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:34:51 am by BravoV »
 
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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2018, 08:43:36 am »
+1  Rigol order is going in now.  Way I look at this.  I'm driving across the desert.  I could drive a Rolls Royce or a Model T ford.  If I need assistance (which I'm sure I will), I'd like to be driving something lots of other people will have and know how to fix.  Seems like "everyone" has a Rigol....  Easy to someone who will know how to assist me.

Wise move.  :-+

Yes, you've identified another hidden value of owning a popular gadget, especially in this electronic tinkerers lair.  >:D

Cause once these "tons" of owners of this scope's warranty are expired, I believe you will see lots of these "tinkerers" will start to do self repair if its repairable of course, and I'm quite confident these tips/tricks on common problems on this aged scope model will be shared here. This condition is a perfect fits in for hobbyist level or owners with limited budget that can not afford the so called maintenance contract to extend the scope's warranty.

My 2 cents worth, and have fun.

I plan on it.   Rigol and "Bob's my uncle"  (Do they say that?)  I'm in the states and like the Aussie sayings.  I know enopugh not to say I'm rooting for Dave.   
 

Offline abraxa

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2018, 09:17:45 am »
One feature I really want are the frame/protocol decoders used in Arduino.  SPI, RS-232/UART.

btw, I was going to mention getting a FX2-based logic analyzer since they're so very cheap, however they need to be connected to a laptop - which can be fried if the students push too high a voltage into the device. If you feel confident that this won't happen then I suggest getting one of those as well (and sigrok as the software suite for it). It could be a good way to teach them to use the right tool for the job.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2018, 09:49:58 am »
Get a scope that has dedicated controls above the inputs, be it a 2 channel or 4

The last thing you need with students hovering about  >:D >:D >:D  is switched/  shared channels BS on a DSO you have to master asap  |O :-// :horse:


"Who's on first, What's on second, I don't know on third..."  :-[




 
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Offline djnz

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2018, 10:59:20 am »

btw, I was going to mention getting a FX2-based logic analyzer since they're so very cheap, however they need to be connected to a laptop - which can be fried if the students push too high a voltage into the device. If you feel confident that this won't happen then I suggest getting one of those as well (and sigrok as the software suite for it). It could be a good way to teach them to use the right tool for the job.

A USB opto-isolator would help here. Perhaps something based on the ADuM4160, like https://www.adafruit.com/product/2107
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2018, 01:52:24 pm »
Get a scope that has dedicated controls above the inputs, be it a 2 channel or 4

The last thing you need with students hovering about  >:D >:D >:D  is switched/  shared channels BS on a DSO you have to master asap  |O :-// :horse:
IMO I don't see this as a blocking issue. Sure, this can be an annoyance but far from the modern reality - especially when dealing with the fact compact multichannel units are what the students will most probably use after high school is over.

If anything, this will give them a taste of reality... :)
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online TK

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2018, 02:40:32 pm »
Another good option for a classroom scope is the Micsig TO1104.  The fully loaded model (4 channels, 100MHz, battery, HDMI, WiFi, serial protocol decode, 500uV, 28Mpts) is around $475 on amazon.  You can use the HDMI port to show the scope display on a large LCD TV, monitor or projector.

This looks intereting but there are no knobs.  It's a touch screen.  Horrible for teaching.  Studnets and I will point to the screen to discuss something only to find we changed settings.  I really like my Windows 10 touch screen comptuer.  But using it as a teaching tool is horrible.  Drives me and students crazy.
Interesting perspective, thank you for sharing your experience. 
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2018, 04:02:08 pm »
Get a scope that has dedicated controls above the inputs, be it a 2 channel or 4

The last thing you need with students hovering about  >:D >:D >:D  is switched/  shared channels BS on a DSO you have to master asap  |O :-// :horse:


"Who's on first, What's on second, I don't know on third..."  :-[



Thanks.  But what’s the fellows name?  Tomorrow.  No, I want to know today.  I fpn’y know.  Why, third base.

Have you ever tried to shut down a Windows Computer.  Click on Start.  No I want to shut the computer down.  I know, click on Start.  Why would I click on Start if I want to Shut the computer down?  Because.Why I don’t know,  (Thisi is on the web somewhere.)

Classic and brilliant. 

I tell my students UDP jokes, but they don’t seem to get it.  But TCP jokes they get every time.

 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2018, 06:07:06 pm »
One feature I really want are the frame/protocol decoders used in Arduino.  SPI, RS-232/UART.

btw, I was going to mention getting a FX2-based logic analyzer since they're so very cheap, however they need to be connected to a laptop - which can be fried if the students push too high a voltage into the device. If you feel confident that this won't happen then I suggest getting one of those as well (and sigrok as the software suite for it). It could be a good way to teach them to use the right tool for the job.

Thanks for the suggestion.  I’m not as familiar with a logic analyzer so I watched several of Dave’s videos on LA.  This is really helping me get a better understanding the the lower level hardware and components.  If you know the OSI model I’m more of a layer  2 - 5 guy.

I do have a question.  In computer networking/OSI model we have bits, frames and packets.  Very precise definitions.  But in digital electronics Dave used the term frame when I would consider it a frame.

A series of bits are framed into meaning full data by identifying the start/stop bits.  I’m thinking maybe in this world a bus is being used so there’s no addressing???  So you folks use frame and packet interchangeable?  Or in thinking about this maybe the frame contains the address so frame or packet is really the same thing?

Not sure if you are familiar with Wireshark.  (I am. It’s a packet decoder.). You are making me realize a logic analyzer is a low level packet decoder which shows shows voltage and timing.  Wireshark is sort of doing the same thing but doen’st display the pin voltages.

Thanks for making me think, you are making me a much better instructor.


 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2018, 06:35:58 pm »
Get a scope that has dedicated controls above the inputs, be it a 2 channel or 4

The last thing you need with students hovering about  >:D >:D >:D  is switched/  shared channels BS on a DSO you have to master asap  |O :-// :horse:
IMO I don't see this as a blocking issue. Sure, this can be an annoyance but far from the modern reality - especially when dealing with the fact compact multichannel units are what the students will most probably use after high school is over.

If anything, this will give them a taste of reality... :)

Souds like you might not be aware of what’s going on in our educational system.   Remember “no child get’s left behind”, that also means “no child gets ahead” either.  It’s been years since I was in high school, but I returned to see what it’s like today.  I was almost in tears.  Gone is wood, metal, auto, drafting and electronic is.  Those beautiful shops have all been turned into classroom space.  We are expecting students to lean in what looks like a warehouse.

And then we teach studnets math and give them no practical application.  That’s why we had the shop classes so one could apply the what was learned in a math class to make something studnets could say them made themselves.  I still have a treasure many of the items I made in my 7th and 8th grade metal shop class.

How times have changed.  I’m now a college professor and have been teaching cyber security for the past 15 years.  There are very few of us who take the time to learn and teach studnets the latest material.  Most of my tenured professors have been teaching the same material in cyber security they were teaching 10-20 years ago.  No employer will hire someone for a cyber security or probably and EE job if their education is based on 10 - 20 year old material.  Yes it is that bad.  Need proof?  How many times has your credit card been stolen curtosey of HomeDepot, Target, Hyatt, TJ Max?  It’s a long list.

The folks running our education system today believe we should be teaching to the “least able student” because that’s what’s “fair”.  We want equality in education.

I sure as heck don’t.  I would like to see students perform to their level of ability and interest.

Sorry for the rant.....  But yes it is that bad here int he states.   


   


 



 
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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2018, 06:42:02 pm »
I did loook into the educational discount for Rigol scopes.  Price on the Rigol scope is #349.  Educational dissouted price is $331 or a savings of $18.  Much easer to order from Amazon and get it Tuesday that wait until Monday and source from another vendor.  No if we were buying 25-30 scopes different story.  I’m only buying one, just not worth it.
 

Offline evgen.05

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2018, 07:51:40 pm »
Siglent SDS 1202x-e best price for today. Or 1204- 4 ch. On this day is the best osc. for they price. Not Rigol or somethings else. Rigol is near of the end of life today. lt's obvious. Siglent is fresh decigion. If new products released from Rigol tomorrow - we wll see. But today - Siglent - best scopes today for the price.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2018, 08:29:54 pm »
Siglent SDS 1202x-e best price for today. Or 1204- 4 ch. On this day is the best osc. for they price. Not Rigol or somethings else. Rigol is near of the end of life today. lt's obvious. Siglent is fresh decigion. If new products released from Rigol tomorrow - we wll see. But today - Siglent - best scopes today for the price.

Can't find pricing or for that matter any information about the product.  It would be irresponsible of my to buy a product with tax payer money for an educational instruction without any information other than you saying it has the best price today.  I'm looking for what would be the best value for the college and students.  Price is only one factor when considering value.

Can you direct me to any specs, reviews or edu pricing?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2018, 08:54:10 pm »
Siglent SDS 1202x-e best price for today. Or 1204- 4 ch. On this day is the best osc. for they price. Not Rigol or somethings else. Rigol is near of the end of life today. lt's obvious. Siglent is fresh decigion. If new products released from Rigol tomorrow - we wll see. But today - Siglent - best scopes today for the price.

Can't find pricing or for that matter any information about the product.  It would be irresponsible of my to buy a product with tax payer money for an educational instruction without any information other than you saying it has the best price today.  I'm looking for what would be the best value for the college and students.  Price is only one factor when considering value.

Can you direct me to any specs, reviews or edu pricing?
You didn't look very hard.  :-//
https://www.siglentamerica.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-e-series-super-phosphor-oscilloscopes/

Dave's done teardowns on the 2 and 4ch versions.

Siglent America is a member here and they also have an Amazon shop.
Shoot them an email.
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Gone fishing !
 

Offline imidis

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2018, 08:59:11 pm »
really price wise the 1202x-e is the only viable one for the budget.

OP made decision already.
Gone for good
 
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Offline abraxa

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2018, 09:20:50 pm »
Siglent SDS 1202x-e best price for today. Or 1204- 4 ch. On this day is the best osc. for they price. Not Rigol or somethings else. Rigol is near of the end of life today. lt's obvious. Siglent is fresh decigion. If new products released from Rigol tomorrow - we wll see. But today - Siglent - best scopes today for the price.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem like he can get a 4-ch Siglent scope for the $400 budget. With 2 channels, doing meaningful SPI decoding is impossible, so for that reason alone I'd go for a 4-ch model - which seems to only leave the Rigol DS1054z.
 
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Offline abraxa

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2018, 10:06:45 pm »
I do have a question.  In computer networking/OSI model we have bits, frames and packets.  Very precise definitions.  But in digital electronics Dave used the term frame when I would consider it a frame.

A series of bits are framed into meaning full data by identifying the start/stop bits.  I’m thinking maybe in this world a bus is being used so there’s no addressing???  So you folks use frame and packet interchangeable?  Or in thinking about this maybe the frame contains the address so frame or packet is really the same thing?
To stay within this analogy, logic analyzers begin on OSI level 1 and can go up to any OSI level really, depending on the protocol and the logic analyzer's abilities. Since the variety of physical implementations of all the different protocols are vastly different, what is a frame for one protocol may not be a frame for another. It all really depends on the signal(s) you're looking at, so there's no universal definition.

Not sure if you are familiar with Wireshark.  (I am. It’s a packet decoder.). You are making me realize a logic analyzer is a low level packet decoder which shows shows voltage and timing.  Wireshark is sort of doing the same thing but doen’st display the pin voltages.
Yeah, pretty much. You could also say that a scope is designed to look at signals in the analog realm and a LA is made to look at signals in the digital realm. They're different tools for different jobs really. The fact that modern scopes can decode protocols doesn't make them well-suited for analyzing digital systems, it just means that they're able to do it - like driving a screw into a block of wood: just because a hammer is able to do it doesn't mean that it's the right tool for the job. A scope with decode abilities will be fine for your class, just wanted to make you aware.

If you have the time and would like to know more, you can check out e.g.

shows how stacked decoders are used to make sense of data (here: I2C -> DS1307 and SPI -> SSI32)


looks at examining I2C signals with sigrok


gives a more complete picture of what sigrok can do, though it's maybe too detailed for you
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 10:08:48 pm by abraxa »
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2018, 10:19:38 pm »
Siglent SDS 1202x-e best price for today. Or 1204- 4 ch. On this day is the best osc. for they price. Not Rigol or somethings else. Rigol is near of the end of life today. lt's obvious. Siglent is fresh decigion. If new products released from Rigol tomorrow - we wll see. But today - Siglent - best scopes today for the price.

Can't find pricing or for that matter any information about the product.  It would be irresponsible of my to buy a product with tax payer money for an educational instruction without any information other than you saying it has the best price today.  I'm looking for what would be the best value for the college and students.  Price is only one factor when considering value.

Can you direct me to any specs, reviews or edu pricing?
You didn't look very hard.  :-//
https://www.siglentamerica.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-e-series-super-phosphor-oscilloscopes/

Dave's done teardowns on the 2 and 4ch versions.

Siglent America is a member here and they also have an Amazon shop.
Shoot them an email.

Plesase don't say I havre not looked very hard, I have.

What I found from the link your provided was ....
"SIGLENT’s new SDS1000X-E Super Phosphor Oscilloscopes sets a new higher bar in low-cost oscilloscopes. Available in 2 and 4-channel versions (the 4 channel versions include several additional features and options)....."

What I can't find is what fetures I'm giving up. 
I made it very clear I have a $400 budget.
Compared to the Rigol I'm giving up two channels.  And now I find I'm giving something else up in addition to two channels.

Yes I watched Dave's tear down.  Did that anwer my original post which explained my needs?  Nope
I watched several other videos on YouTube but all they did was explain features.  There was no comparison with the Rigol or any other scope.

In the online revies for the SDS1000X-E there aren't that  many.  And the ones who provided any detained information admissted they were hiobbiests and were probably not the best qualifed to write a review.  I also found someone else who coimmented the decodes feature doesnt' work so well.  This is a feature I stated I wanted.  So why would I want to buy something that's not going to work?

From what I can see the Siglet is newer, has a faster boot time and a math co-processor.  The Rigol boots 10 seconds sloer, does all of the sme decodes and has two channles more.  ANd the Rigol is less expensive.

It appears to get the same funtionality in the Siglent I would have to spend twice the prices.

And here's the real kicker...  Dave pointed thos out in his teardown....  The caps.  Not sure if you are aware but PC poser supplies used the same manufactures cpas.  Thosee things failed frequently.  I remember having to replacie many of them.  So here's I'm paying a premium for a prodcut which may have defectiv caps.  As Dave asked, why didn't the compny use "good" caps like Panasonic?

So far no one has given me a compelling reaon NOT to buy Rigol based on my crieteia.  On the otherhand I have found numerous reasons not to buy Siglent.

The order is in, but I have until tomoorw before it will be procssed.  If you are anyone can provide a compelling arguement not to buy Rigol and buy Siglent I will.  I will tell you right if you tell me it's because they have great prices you are wasitinig my time.  Please look at my initial post to udersand my requiremetns.

Thank you







 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2018, 10:39:18 pm »
Siglent SDS 1202x-e best price for today. Or 1204- 4 ch. On this day is the best osc. for they price. Not Rigol or somethings else. Rigol is near of the end of life today. lt's obvious. Siglent is fresh decigion. If new products released from Rigol tomorrow - we wll see. But today - Siglent - best scopes today for the price.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem like he can get a 4-ch Siglent scope for the $400 budget. With 2 channels, doing meaningful SPI decoding is impossible, so for that reason alone I'd go for a 4-ch model - which seems to only leave the Rigol DS1054z.

Thank you - You are providing the type of assistance I'm looking for.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2018, 10:52:12 pm »
Get a scope that has dedicated controls above the inputs, be it a 2 channel or 4

The last thing you need with students hovering about  >:D >:D >:D  is switched/  shared channels BS on a DSO you have to master asap  |O :-// :horse:
IMO I don't see this as a blocking issue. Sure, this can be an annoyance but far from the modern reality - especially when dealing with the fact compact multichannel units are what the students will most probably use after high school is over.

If anything, this will give them a taste of reality... :)

Souds like you might not be aware of what’s going on in our educational system.   Remember “no child get’s left behind”, that also means “no child gets ahead” either.
I understand the issues from the news but, since I did not go to school here in the US, to me an oscilloscope (or whatever other technical/trade equipment) is unheard of in a high school class - thus my impression you were part of a more advanced or better funded school district.

Siglent SDS 1202x-e best price for today. Or 1204- 4 ch. On this day is the best osc. for they price. Not Rigol or somethings else. Rigol is near of the end of life today. lt's obvious. Siglent is fresh decigion. If new products released from Rigol tomorrow - we wll see. But today - Siglent - best scopes today for the price.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem like he can get a 4-ch Siglent scope for the $400 budget. With 2 channels, doing meaningful SPI decoding is impossible, so for that reason alone I'd go for a 4-ch model - which seems to only leave the Rigol DS1054z.

Thank you - You are providing the type of assistance I'm looking for.
If your usage was focused in analog signals where the demand for more bandwidth or a better FFT is more important than multiple channels or decode, the Siglent or a Instek would be a better choice.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline tautech

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2018, 11:05:00 pm »
What I can't find is what fetures I'm giving up. 
I made it very clear I have a $400 budget.
Compared to the Rigol I'm giving up two channels.  And now I find I'm giving something else up in addition to two channels.

Yes I watched Dave's tear down.  Did that anwer my original post which explained my needs?  Nope
I watched several other videos on YouTube but all they did was explain features.  There was no comparison with the Rigol or any other scope.

In the online revies for the SDS1000X-E there aren't that  many.  And the ones who provided any detained information admissted they were hiobbiests and were probably not the best qualifed to write a review.  I also found someone else who coimmented the decodes feature doesnt' work so well.  This is a feature I stated I wanted.  So why would I want to buy something that's not going to work?

And here's the real kicker...  Dave pointed thos out in his teardown....  The caps.  Not sure if you are aware but PC poser supplies used the same manufactures cpas.  Thosee things failed frequently.  I remember having to replacie many of them.  So here's I'm paying a premium for a prodcut which may have defectiv caps.  As Dave asked, why didn't the compny use "good" caps like Panasonic?

So far no one has given me a compelling reaon NOT to buy Rigol based on my crieteia.  On the otherhand I have found numerous reasons not to buy Siglent.

The order is in, but I have until tomoorw before it will be procssed.  If you are anyone can provide a compelling arguement not to buy Rigol and buy Siglent I will.  I will tell you right if you tell me it's because they have great prices you are wasitinig my time.  Please look at my initial post to udersand my requiremetns.

Thank you
All plainly understood.

One thing I will address is Dave's comments on the Siglent PSU caps.
I've sold Siglents for a good few years and many are well out of warranty now, all with zero PSU issues, zip, nada, none.
He brings out that old chestnut every time he does a Siglent teardown   :horse: and it's only his opinion as if you take the time to search online IF there was any problem you'd find it. In just a few minutes I can't and I've never heard of any. There's a good few members here with Siglent equipment so cap problems if any would be well discussed.
Quote
From what I can see the Siglet is newer, has a faster boot time and a math co-processor.  The Rigol boots 10 seconds sloer, does all of the sme decodes and has two channles more.  ANd the Rigol is less expensive.

It appears to get the same funtionality in the Siglent I would have to spend twice the prices.
It's not quite that simple. You get what you think you'd be happy with and for your limited needs the cheaper option could suit your requirements. Like any modern equipment 'they' evolve and all the videos online can be quickly outdated with just one firmware release. As for channel count, I've sold gear to guys that were doing decode the hard way and with just 1 channel.  :scared:

Do your homework, ask colleagues and EE's that you might know.
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Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2018, 11:32:22 pm »
Get a scope that has dedicated controls above the inputs, be it a 2 channel or 4

The last thing you need with students hovering about  >:D >:D >:D  is switched/  shared channels BS on a DSO you have to master asap  |O :-// :horse:
IMO I don't see this as a blocking issue. Sure, this can be an annoyance but far from the modern reality - especially when dealing with the fact compact multichannel units are what the students will most probably use after high school is over.

If anything, this will give them a taste of reality... :)

Souds like you might not be aware of what’s going on in our educational system.   Remember “no child get’s left behind”, that also means “no child gets ahead” either.
I understand the issues from the news but, since I did not go to school here in the US, to me an oscilloscope (or whatever other technical/trade equipment) is unheard of in a high school class - thus my impression you were part of a more advanced or better funded school district.

Siglent SDS 1202x-e best price for today. Or 1204- 4 ch. On this day is the best osc. for they price. Not Rigol or somethings else. Rigol is near of the end of life today. lt's obvious. Siglent is fresh decigion. If new products released from Rigol tomorrow - we wll see. But today - Siglent - best scopes today for the price.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem like he can get a 4-ch Siglent scope for the $400 budget. With 2 channels, doing meaningful SPI decoding is impossible, so for that reason alone I'd go for a 4-ch model - which seems to only leave the Rigol DS1054z.

Thank you - You are providing the type of assistance I'm looking for.
If your usage was focused in analog signals where the demand for more bandwidth or a better FFT is more important than multiple channels or decode, the Siglent or a Instek would be a better choice.

Appears you didn't see my original post.  Or the post where I explained what I would be teaching.  I am a college professor.  I teach computer networking, virtualization and cyber-security classes.  Our college is trying an outreach program with the high school where high school students are receiving college credit for taking the class.  These kids are smart and eager to learn.  I even have an 8th grader who really into computers/electronics. 

My budget for the class is $750.  I plan on using Arduinos, so that's about $300.  We need tools, $50.  This leaves around $400 for a scope.  Is it a luxury?  You bet it is.  But then again I don't know of any tool that's any better for teaching computer protocols, networking, cyber security and a little bit of programming.

Do I know what I'm doing.....  Sort of.  Never taguth high school studnets.  But boy are they sharp.  My gols is to teaching them thrroughy hacking. 

I've looked at logic analyers and understand what they do.  But for what I am teaching this way too close low level (voltages) for what I'm teaching.  I need to be at Wireshar level  OSI layer 2 and above if you will.  A scope is a sretch for what I'm teaching but I think it's worth it.  I wasnt these kids to know how to use a VOM/DMM to test for continuity and understand voltage and AC/DC current.  But agin this class's focus is on computers, programming, networkign and cyber security.




 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: With a budget of $400 - Rigol or Siglent scope?
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2018, 11:43:26 pm »
What I can't find is what fetures I'm giving up. 
I made it very clear I have a $400 budget.
Compared to the Rigol I'm giving up two channels.  And now I find I'm giving something else up in addition to two channels.

Yes I watched Dave's tear down.  Did that anwer my original post which explained my needs?  Nope
I watched several other videos on YouTube but all they did was explain features.  There was no comparison with the Rigol or any other scope.

In the online revies for the SDS1000X-E there aren't that  many.  And the ones who provided any detained information admissted they were hiobbiests and were probably not the best qualifed to write a review.  I also found someone else who coimmented the decodes feature doesnt' work so well.  This is a feature I stated I wanted.  So why would I want to buy something that's not going to work?

And here's the real kicker...  Dave pointed thos out in his teardown....  The caps.  Not sure if you are aware but PC poser supplies used the same manufactures cpas.  Thosee things failed frequently.  I remember having to replacie many of them.  So here's I'm paying a premium for a prodcut which may have defectiv caps.  As Dave asked, why didn't the compny use "good" caps like Panasonic?

So far no one has given me a compelling reaon NOT to buy Rigol based on my crieteia.  On the otherhand I have found numerous reasons not to buy Siglent.

The order is in, but I have until tomoorw before it will be procssed.  If you are anyone can provide a compelling arguement not to buy Rigol and buy Siglent I will.  I will tell you right if you tell me it's because they have great prices you are wasitinig my time.  Please look at my initial post to udersand my requiremetns.

Thank you
All plainly understood.

One thing I will address is Dave's comments on the Siglent PSU caps.
I've sold Siglents for a good few years and many are well out of warranty now, all with zero PSU issues, zip, nada, none.
He brings out that old chestnut every time he does a Siglent teardown   :horse: and it's only his opinion as if you take the time to search online IF there was any problem you'd find it. In just a few minutes I can't and I've never heard of any. There's a good few members here with Siglent equipment so cap problems if any would be well discussed.
Quote
From what I can see the Siglet is newer, has a faster boot time and a math co-processor.  The Rigol boots 10 seconds sloer, does all of the sme decodes and has two channles more.  ANd the Rigol is less expensive.

It appears to get the same funtionality in the Siglent I would have to spend twice the prices.
It's not quite that simple. You get what you think you'd be happy with and for your limited needs the cheaper option could suit your requirements. Like any modern equipment 'they' evolve and all the videos online can be quickly outdated with just one firmware release. As for channel count, I've sold gear to guys that were doing decode the hard way and with just 1 channel.  :scared:

Do your homework, ask colleagues and EE's that you might know.

Here's the thing with the caps.  We know that brand of caps had probelms with comptuer power supplioes.  Can remember how many PS we head to replace or the cost involged to repalce thema adn the down time of the workers.   They might be good now, or maybe in another 6 months when the scope is out of warranty they will start blowing.  Every company makes a bad product everyone ins a while.  If I recall correclty I lost 3 power supples in my personal computers.  Not knowing they had bad caps spent hundreds of dollars to buy new PS.  Think after spendins hundereds of dollars and wasted itme (like Dave) I'm ready to atrust thos caps?

Or here's a better question.  If you were building a rover to send to Mars would you use caps thet had massive QA problems in the past?  Or fo with a manufacture that's had no QA issues.  Yes time will tell.  But I woudl rather you do the test with your money and not mine.
 




 


   






 


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