EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: MikeK on June 11, 2022, 10:40:38 pm
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I got these probes from AliExpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832820238585.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832820238585.html)
[attachimg=1]
The black plug fits fine into my UNI-T UT61E, although it doesn't go in as far as the UNI-T probe. But the red plug doesn't mate with the Volts jack at all; it just flops around not making snug contact. It sorta fits the 10A jack, but not very well.
*Both* UNI-T probes fit properly in all of the UT61E jacks.
Does my UNI-T UT61E use uncommon probe jacks? Or are these AliX probes improperly made?
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Does my UNI-T UT61E use uncommon probe jacks? Or are these AliX probes improperly made?
I would say its the second. The spring mechanism of the plug problably is damaged or don't meet the tolerances.
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Looking on the picture seems you can fit a small flat screwdriver in between the leaves and push them away from each other. I agree this seems to be trash and is the cheapest version of banana plug.
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Other issues with cheap leads can be high resistance and low current capacity. There is a tendency to cheap out and use plated aluminium instead of copper. Given the relatively low cost of decent leads, unless you regularly destroy them it's worth getting some Probemasters (https://simonselectronics.co.uk/product/8018s-fixed-point-48-straight-shrouded-plug/) or Pomonas (https://simonselectronics.co.uk/product/eev-blog-silicone-probes/), though Simon seems to be out of stock of the Brymen branded Pomonas. Shouldn't cost more than £20-30 shipped in the UK, and will last a lifetime if you take care of them.
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The black plug fits fine into my UNI-T UT61E. But the red plug doesn't mate with the Volts jack at all; it just flops around not making snug contact.
Does the read lead fit properly in the hole where the black lead fits?
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Indeed !
I recommend the screwdriver method by Wraper. I usually use it.
Have a nice day !
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Looking at the pictures alone the probes seem to be OK but the qualiy when we have them in real life may be quite bad. I am sure they were designed to fit your meter just that the particular one you have is defective. Sure I think screw driver to spread out the plug would make them usable.
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Okay, thanks guys. I'll pry open the wallet for good ones. These ones smelled pretty bad too.
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These ones smelled pretty bad too.
:o
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These ones smelled pretty bad too.
:o
Likely cheap PVC ...
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Likely similar, but excellent probes I got from the seller below.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtzju22
The probes did not smell bad, work very well and the gold plating is holding very well after about a year of heavy use. The only caution needed is the tip is very sharp and I cut myself a pair of times. Also, the metal is soft and don't drop them on the floor - they will either bend or lose the sharpness.
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I bought three sets of these probes a couple of years ago and they seemed OK to me. Real silicon cables, gold plated, etc.
(I bought one set then when I saw they were good I ordered two more)
These ones smelled pretty bad too.
Maybe we're at the stage where cheap PVC clones are being made.
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No, these ones are not PVC...they're very flexible. Many some kind of toxic Chinese silicone.
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I have these same test leads and a UT-61e as well. The probes are not bad at all.
I think the problem can be the terminals in the DMM. This multimeter has a very crap input jack, they are split and tend to open wide and the terminal in the probe will stay loose. I had this problem and I tried many different probes.
I had to use small pliers to close the jacks in my multimeter and then I added some solder to keep it tight. Not great but it solved for me.
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Problem is not the DMM terminals, since they hold the factory probes perfect fine. The red AliX probe literally falls out of the DMM jack. And AliX is being annoying on wanting an even better video than I sent them...nobody involved must have ever used a DMM before. The probe should stay IN!
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Problem is not the DMM terminals, since they hold the factory probes perfect fine. The red AliX probe literally falls out of the DMM jack. And AliX is being annoying on wanting an even better video than I sent them...nobody involved must have ever used a DMM before. The probe should stay IN!
Don't expect the AliExpress customer support have a clue what you are talking about, considering they have to deal with anything ranging from marbles and bikini to CNC machines and lasers ... And that is even when you aren't dealing with a language barrier in the first place (aka good luck with anything that can't be answered by a canned pre-scripted response with some staffers).
I had a dispute refused 3x because apparently I have been delivered my goods, so what more do I want? Chips were fake and certainly not new, showing that they still contained data from their previous owner absolutely didn't bother the support grunt I have been dealing with. They know that for a few bucks of goods nobody is going to press it for very long, it is just not worth it.
Basically you get what you pay for and if one doesn't want to risk losing money, they shouldn't shop on AliExpress.
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nobody involved must have ever used a DMM before.
Probably not.
(Go figure!)
Basically you get what you pay for and if one doesn't want to risk losing money, they shouldn't shop on AliExpress.
I see it as the Aliexpress tax. You pay half price for everything. If you get a dud every now and again then do a minimal reclaim and just take the loss if they don't refund.
In the long term you'll be way ahead compared to buying from "reputable" places.
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I will never use AliExpress again. They have been horrible. They won't refund my money.
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I will never use AliExpress again. They have been horrible. They won't refund my money.
Interesting... Did you try to expand the innner metal slices of the probes' banana plugs as mentioned before in this thread? If you did that and the probes are failing in another way, indeed you have grounds for a return/refund. Otherwise it is buyer's remorse and Ali might or might not honour this (such clauses are non existent in most of the world).
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I will never use AliExpress again. They have been horrible. They won't refund my money.
Your loss, not theirs.
PS: You didn't say if the black lead fits the red hole in your meter. We wouldn't want this to be the meter's fault, would we?
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Crap probes don’t work properly in crap meter. I think we have a pattern here!
If you’re going to buy crap stuff, get it off eBay as the customer is always right there. Or use aliexpress with a credit card and charge back it if they screw you.
AVGresponding has the correct answer here. Buy some decent probes. I recently bought the following. Not cheap but they are what the Chinese companies are pretending to produce: https://www.keysight.com/us/en/product/34138A/test-lead-set.html (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/product/34138A/test-lead-set.html)
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I have a friend who has an Aliexpress tantrum since about two years ago.
I love showing him all the cheap but good stuff I got on Aliexpress.
The occasional thing that turned out to be sub-standard? No biggie when you're paying half price for everything.
AVGresponding has the correct answer here. Buy some decent probes. I recently bought the following. Not cheap...
And especially when you're paying 1/10th of the price.
There's some things you obviously shouldn't buy on Aliexpress, eg. 18650 batteries, common sense says to derate most seller's claims for power, etc., but there's also plenty of things you shouldn't really buy anywhere else, eg. WS2812 LEDs.
Like I said: His loss. I've got some of those leads and they work just fine.
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PS: You didn't say if the black lead fits the red hole in your meter. We wouldn't want this to be the meter's fault, would we?
Yes he did say (it's implied rather than explicit, but I expect people to be able to extrapolate such things).
Uni-T may be at the budget end of the market, and frequently have below par input protection, but they are better than 99% of the junk I see on AliX.
Your statement that your leads from there are fine is irrelevant; the point is that the quality is completely random luck, and the buyer protection is far from good. If you buy Probemaster/Pomona etc leads from a reputable source, they will be good, and you will not need to find out how good the buyer protection is, save perhaps for the occasional "lost in the post" type situation.
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Your statement that your leads from there are fine is irrelevant;
No, it's a data point in a numbers game.
Imagine a game where you have a better than 50% of doubling your money every time you play. Would you stop playing because you played $3 once and lost? Or even if you lost $5 twice in a row?
the point is that the quality is completely random luck
(a quick google search gives...)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-test-lead-quality/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-test-lead-quality/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/pomona-test-leads-repeated-failure/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/pomona-test-leads-repeated-failure/)
:-//
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The differences in probabilities here is significant, I do not buy your analogy.
That the Pomona micro probe leads are more fragile than normal leads is hardly a surprise; they are tiny, rated at a mere 3A, and in fairness I haven't put enough miles on mine to say for sure, but I would suspect they will last well enough given careful handling.
As for the Fluke TL71 issue, not sure if they are made by Pomona or some other part of the corporation (I suspect the latter) and is a sad indication of some of the cost/corner cutting which seems to be creeping in to Fluke products. Hopefully someone will fire the bean counters before they ruin the company's reputation, but only time will tell.
I'd be frankly amazed if the "gold" on your AliX really is gold. I'd also like to see a measurement of the probe and lead resistance, compared with a "good" brand. I think I'll warm my LCR meter up, and see what it makes of some leads of various quality...
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I've used Pomona leads and probes for about 25 years with no issues other than incinerating some of the clip leads. Some people just shred 'em :-//
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The differences in probabilities here is significant, I do not buy your analogy.
And I do not buy your assertion that everybody always needs to shop at Luis Vuitton to make sure they're getting quality that can be handed down to the next generation.
If I was going to "spend a bit more on leads" I'd go for Brymens. They have decent leads for 11 Euros.
https://brymen.eu/shop/silicone-test-leads-bl21s2-t4sc-brymen/
For a set of really, really sharp pointy leads though, those Aliexpress leads are awesome.
(if you want to argue that they're too sharp and pointy for general use then I might buy that argument - they're scary sharp, they're the only leads I put the safety caps on when I store them)
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Some people just shred 'em :-//
That, too. If anybody is replacing expensive leads three times a year then maybe they need to ease up a bit.
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The differences in probabilities here is significant, I do not buy your analogy.
And I do not buy your assertion that everybody always needs to shop at Luis Vuitton to make sure they're getting quality that can be handed down to the next generation.
If I was going to "spend a bit more on leads" I'd go for Brymens. They have decent leads for 11 Euros.
https://brymen.eu/shop/silicone-test-leads-bl21s2-t4sc-brymen/
For a set of really, really sharp pointy leads though, those Aliexpress leads are awesome.
(if you want to argue that they're too sharp and pointy for general use then I might buy that argument - they're scary sharp, they're the only leads I put the safety caps on when I store them)
Luis Vuitton? Seriously? :palm:
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Luis Vuitton? Seriously? :palm:
By "Luis Vuitton" he meant Fluke. :)
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Luis Vuitton? Seriously? :palm:
By "Luis Vuitton" he meant Fluke. :)
While Fluke quality may be slipping slightly on some products, I'd hardly put them in the same category as "fashion statement". Yet.
Ok, LCR warmed up, so here for shits and giggles is my no-control lead comparison. All leads including the LCR Kelvin clips were cleaned with 99.9% IPA first.
Brymen BL21: 0.08410Ω
Pomona 6342: 0.09373Ω
Keysight 34138: 0.02043Ω
Unknown PVC: 0.02052Ω
Pomona 6366: 0.08939Ω
RS Pro modular: 0.05711Ω
Very old and solder burned Fluke TL71: 0.03050Ω
Home made banana to banana: 0.00837Ω
I do have plenty of other leads I could have included, but I'm late for beer o'clock as it is.
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Just to note the reason you pay for pricey DMM leads is not longevity and quality but the fact the CAT rating and UL markings are actually less likely to be a fat lie wrapped in a shit sandwich.
Safety first. Always.
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Keysight 34138: 0.02043Ω
Unknown PVC: 0.02052Ω
Very old and solder burned Fluke TL71: 0.03050Ω
RS Pro modular: 0.05711Ω
Brymen BL21: 0.08410Ω
Pomona 6366: 0.08939Ω
Pomona 6342: 0.09373Ω
I sorted the list into order. It seems "unknown PVC" beats all big brand names except one. :)
Edit: And only loses to that one by a 0.4% margin(!)
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Fortunately the Keysight ones I bought :-DD
Curveball: Which are made by Pomona :-DD
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Just to note the reason you pay for pricey DMM leads is not longevity and quality but the fact the CAT rating and UL markings are actually less likely to be a fat lie wrapped in a shit sandwich.
Doesn't bother me for the stuff I work on.
If I ever feel the need to poke at a distribution panel I'll pull out my Fluke 27 FM.
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It’s actually usually under 20V that I melted a couple of sets of leads on…
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It’s actually usually under 20V that I melted a couple of sets of leads on…
On what DMM? I'd take a look at the 10A fuse brand/supplier...
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Well the leads blew before the fuse did because they were shite :palm:
DMM was a Fluke 77 which is unfused actually. The issue is that it didn’t go anywhere near 10A.
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Well the leads blew before the fuse did because they were shite :palm:
Silicon is certainly preferable for high-temperature applications.
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DMM was a Fluke 77 which is unfused actually.
Not true. The fuse is just external, and made of cheap PVC.
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PVC wasn’t the problem. It was the 3A fuse wire they made the inside of the PVC with :-DD
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Everybody has to learn that lesson.
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Keysight 34138: 0.02043Ω
Unknown PVC: 0.02052Ω
Very old and solder burned Fluke TL71: 0.03050Ω
RS Pro modular: 0.05711Ω
Brymen BL21: 0.08410Ω
Pomona 6366: 0.08939Ω
Pomona 6342: 0.09373Ω
I sorted the list into order. It seems "unknown PVC" beats all big brand names except one. :)
Edit: And only loses to that one by a 0.4% margin(!)
Incorrect. My reason for posting this list of data points was to illustrate that without proper context, data points are useless.
What are the materials, what are the lead lengths, what are the current ratings of the leads, are these readings consistent, or do repeated readings vary widely?
Just like anecdotal examples of poor lead quality are useless in isolation.
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So, in summary: the OP's datapoint that his probes are crap because one of them does not fit on a jack invalidates the other three contrary datapoints from other people (including mine with the seller I bought, which I got from Fungus) because datapoints are all invalid. Then, two more people provide datapoints of Louis Vuitton probes say they are better, but these also must be discarded because datapoints are all invalid. Then a table that shows loose resistance datapoints between generic and Louis Vuitton probes is used to prove that all datapoints are invalid, but that also must be discarded because all datapoints are invalid.
Holy crap, AVG, you really need that beer, man. Peace.
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Other issues with cheap leads can be high resistance and low current capacity. There is a tendency to cheap out and use plated aluminium instead of copper. Given the relatively low cost of decent leads, unless you regularly destroy them it's worth getting some Probemasters (https://simonselectronics.co.uk/product/8018s-fixed-point-48-straight-shrouded-plug/) or Pomonas (https://simonselectronics.co.uk/product/eev-blog-silicone-probes/), though Simon seems to be out of stock of the Brymen branded Pomonas. Shouldn't cost more than £20-30 shipped in the UK, and will last a lifetime if you take care of them.
You mean that Pomona makes probes for Brymen? :-// That is highly unlikely, opposite direction would be more likely..
Pomona Electronics is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Fluke Corporation. There are no Fluke and Pomona test leads, they are all the same.
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You mean that Pomona makes probes for Brymen? :-//
Pomona Electronics is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Fluke Corporation. There are no Fluke and Pomona test leads, they are all the same.
The more you know...
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Aliexpress is a hit or miss,
been buying there many years as the prices are very attractive not least here from Denmark, with some of the highest prices on the globe..
Though the last year you were taxed +25% VAT on the Aliexpress listing-price with a notice (VAT included) as VAT is now mandatory when shipping to countries inside EU (from 1-6-2021) depending on your country.. it will adjust for the relevant VAT, as long as it is under 150 Euro.. above you need to declare it yourself., as then it ain't just VAT but also tax...but even with incl. VAT & shipping-prices that has raised drastically over the years.. - the Aliexpress prices are often many times cheaper then here, and many of the items you simply can't get here in Europe.
- but the integrity is also extremely low amongst many sellers on Aliexpress, and it's a shame as it really tarnishes it for the good stores, so take a look at their rating and if its a new store....
The aspect of scamming with other people's tracking has become.. quite common, at least in my experience.
And in a manner, so you think your parcel is underway' as the tracking will say, "it's heading for your destination" and then suddenly it will state "delivered" and you will be like "huh, what??" I haven't received anything - and then when contacting postal service for details.. you realize it's simply not your tracking and it's a tracking for somebody else in the other part of the country.
Asked some of my Chinese friends, and it seems they have some subforums, where they share "tracking numbers". and a given seller can simply go there and grab a tracking to your country from around the same period, and post that in Aliexpress, and then you as the buyer' will be hanging in no man's land for a month thinking your parcel is underway - and if your aint ajour & dispute it in that 2-week window from the parcel suddenly out of the blue says "delivered".. your pretty screw'ed, as then the dispute-option is off the table and you need to go thrue a lot of hassle, trying to find real Aliexpress support or your bank.
You need to be on your toes, buying from Aliexpress, but its a plus that PP seems to be an option, though not sure how they act on Aliexpress situations...
The only DMM probes I got from Aliexpress, were some cheap ones were some of the lower parts between the pointy end and handle, could double as banana plug, - though its many years back, and they were surprisingly decent with very flexible silicone-like leads and were like 5 dollars delivered and would gladly have purchased more, but that model was gone at that price... I saw them later under the name Glevee or Glegee, but at a way higher price.
It's these here below' attached to an old Korad 3003P PSU, that also came from Aliexpress (many years back) but here the Aliexpress seller was fantastic..as I'm pretty sure he had labeled his listing wrongly, as it said' "free shipping" as the only one listing these PSUs - and the Korad 3003P was like 60 to 65 USD, and also one of the lowest and likely down to its an 3.1A, but still a P-model (PC).. all other sellers listed shipping prices' that were way above their product-price itself, - likely down to' its a heavy fellow to ship a linear PSU across the globe, -
I reckon he had forgotten to put relevant shipping on his listing, also noted that the listing was gone the day after I had placed my order, and I was pretty confident he would cancel my order, - but nope it arrived from China very fast with no added VAT cost, and it seems the seller had cleared it all,.
So yeah' hit or miss buying from Aliexpress.
The below grey DMM is a no-name from Banggood, that they sold at 11.11USD to VIP5 customers on their 11-year birthday some years back.
boardview: https://tinyurl.com/scopedmm
https://i.imgur.com/fACfCSN.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/mc50LFw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YRl3Vj4.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Bb3x5ew.jpg
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Snip
Yes. I know that model of probe, easy to get in the Shenzhen Electronics Supermarket and Taobao.
They have two variants, one sold as Uni-T (and other manufacturers) by around 18RMB:
(https://i.imgur.com/n1dCfUQ.jpg)
And different model sold by other Manufacturers:
(https://i.imgur.com/a284CZa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jWHWCBl.jpg)
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So, in summary: the OP's datapoint that his probes are crap because one of them does not fit on a jack invalidates the other three contrary datapoints from other people (including mine with the seller I bought, which I got from Fungus) because datapoints are all invalid. Then, two more people provide datapoints of Louis Vuitton probes say they are better, but these also must be discarded because datapoints are all invalid. Then a table that shows loose resistance datapoints between generic and Louis Vuitton probes is used to prove that all datapoints are invalid, but that also must be discarded because all datapoints are invalid.
Holy crap, AVG, you really need that beer, man. Peace.
Didn't think it would take long for someone to take the data and represent them out of context.
The AliX data are part of an overall pattern indicating a very random quality of goods received. The Fluke and Pomona data are effective outliers, contradicting the majority of data points (though it seems there are increasing numbers of them lately, it is unclear yet whether this is due to counterfeiting or, more troubling, falls in Fluke Corp. QC, or more likely both).
The Luis Vuitton analogy is not a good one imo; though there are parallels with badge premium and counterfeiting, Fluke traditionally are functionally superior, whereas Vuitton is a form superiority (if you are a fashionista).
To be clear, I am not saying "all stuff from AliX is trash". I am saying the quality is so variable and unpredictable that I choose to avoid the waste of my time, and I also dislike the ethos of buying so cheap it doesn't matter if you get a dud, just throw it away and buy another. Congratulations on your contribution to e-waste, trade deficit, carbon miles, and exploitive labour practices.
As to whether Pomona make Brymen leads, I thought I had read that somewhere, but can't remember where. Certainly I could easily be mistaken on this, and if anyone has firm knowledge on the subject I will be happy to stand corrected.
However, claiming that Pomona and Fluke leads have no differences is disingenuous. That's like claiming all Skodas and Audis are the same because there are some common parts, and they are part of the same corporation. Or Volkswagens and Seats, pick any two from the VAG corp.
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The Luis Vuitton analogy is not a good one imo; though there are parallels with badge premium and counterfeiting, Fluke traditionally are functionally superior, whereas Vuitton is a form superiority (if you are a fashionista).
Vuitton do use good materials and have a lot of quality control.
Isn't that also one of the justifications for paying Fluke prices?
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The Luis Vuitton analogy is not a good one imo; though there are parallels with badge premium and counterfeiting, Fluke traditionally are functionally superior, whereas Vuitton is a form superiority (if you are a fashionista).
Vuitton do use good materials and have a lot of quality control.
Isn't that also one of the justifications for paying Fluke prices?
I doubt they'd last as long as my work clothes in the same environment.
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The Luis Vuitton analogy is not a good one imo; though there are parallels with badge premium and counterfeiting, Fluke traditionally are functionally superior, whereas Vuitton is a form superiority (if you are a fashionista).
Vuitton do use good materials and have a lot of quality control.
Isn't that also one of the justifications for paying Fluke prices?
Are you sure?
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.louisvuitton.com (https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.louisvuitton.com)
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As to whether Pomona make Brymen leads, I thought I had read that somewhere, but can't remember where. Certainly I could easily be mistaken on this, and if anyone has firm knowledge on the subject I will be happy to stand corrected.
However, claiming that Pomona and Fluke leads have no differences is disingenuous. That's like claiming all Skodas and Audis are the same because there are some common parts, and they are part of the same corporation. Or Volkswagens and Seats, pick any two from the VAG corp.[/color][/size][/b]
So after all this talk about data, rumors from the internet are also a data point..
You were prepared to believe that Pomona makes probes for Brymen because of your cognitive bias that only brand name companies make good products, and that others only make cheap shit. So if Brymen makes something good it is because somebody else makes good probes for them and somebody else designed meters for them or they stole the design....
I have, during the years, tried all kinds of meter cables. Worst ones were very expensive Fuke modular set (150€ set, tips and accesories were fine but cables were absolute crap, breaking all the time. Replaced cables many years ago with UNI-T made ones and they are working perefectly since). And I was VERY gentle with the cables, because they were very expensive, lab use only... Another ones that are crap are tiny Pomona needle types.. They have occasional bad contact, and wires are annoyingly thin, if you work over the device or inside, they keep getting tangled and keep getting hooked to stuff all the time.. OTOH Probemaster needle tip pogo types are fantastic..
And Pomona and Fluke probes are literally SAME. There is one factory (Pomona ) that makes probes for both brands (and Pomona sells to others too, like Keysight). There is no separate Fuke DMM leads facility. Pomona factory is that.
There are some probes that are only Fluke branded, with visual design that goes with it.
Welcome to the corporate efficiency optimization...
And you are exactly wrong about Skoda, WV, Audi and Seat. On the most of the range ( if you discount high end special cars that are only sold under premium brands part of the group) commonality of parts is pretty much more than 80%.
They are (except visually, outside and in the cabin) pretty much same cars, for the most important parts (whole motor group with transmision, chassis platform with suspension, security platform, etc).
And funny enough, components being mostly the same, the care and pride to assemble them makes a difference..
Our Czech friends take great pride in their legacy, and in the whole VW group, Skodas are most reliable. More than Audi..
Corporate assholes know very well how people are blind when you slap on a big brand. They will happily sell you same product quality as common products, and will charge you 10x more... Because big brand is worth it.
Or is it?
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This is all moot. You can never trust a specific brand or that any item they sell will be invariant over time. You have to buy something and inspect and test it either through sampling for large sets or validation for single items and easy to test items.
I'm sitting here going through 2080 resistors at the moment doing pass/fail limit testing with my 34401A :D
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As to whether Pomona make Brymen leads, I thought I had read that somewhere, but can't remember where. Certainly I could easily be mistaken on this, and if anyone has firm knowledge on the subject I will be happy to stand corrected.
However, claiming that Pomona and Fluke leads have no differences is disingenuous. That's like claiming all Skodas and Audis are the same because there are some common parts, and they are part of the same corporation. Or Volkswagens and Seats, pick any two from the VAG corp.[/color][/size][/b]
So after all this talk about data, rumors from the internet are also a data point..
You were prepared to believe that Pomona makes probes for Brymen because of your cognitive bias that only brand name companies make good products, and that others only make cheap shit. So if Brymen makes something good it is because somebody else makes good probes for them and somebody else designed meters for them or they stole the design....
I have, during the years, tried all kinds of meter cables. Worst ones were very expensive Fuke modular set (150€ set, tips and accesories were fine but cables were absolute crap, breaking all the time. Replaced cables many years ago with UNI-T made ones and they are working perefectly since). And I was VERY gentle with the cables, because they were very expensive, lab use only... Another ones that are crap are tiny Pomona needle types.. They have occasional bad contact, and wires are annoyingly thin, if you work over the device or inside, they keep getting tangled and keep getting hooked to stuff all the time.. OTOH Probemaster needle tip pogo types are fantastic..
And Pomona and Fluke probes are literally SAME. There is one factory (Pomona ) that makes probes for both brands (and Pomona sells to others too, like Keysight). There is no separate Fuke DMM leads facility. Pomona factory is that.
There are some probes that are only Fluke branded, with visual design that goes with it.
Welcome to the corporate efficiency optimization...
And you are exactly wrong about Skoda, WV, Audi and Seat. On the most of the range ( if you discount high end special cars that are only sold under premium brands part of the group) commonality of parts is pretty much more than 80%.
They are (except visually, outside and in the cabin) pretty much same cars, for the most important parts (whole motor group with transmision, chassis platform with suspension, security platform, etc).
And funny enough, components being mostly the same, the care and pride to assemble them makes a difference..
Our Czech friends take great pride in their legacy, and in the whole VW group, Skodas are most reliable. More than Audi..
Corporate assholes know very well how people are blind when you slap on a big brand. They will happily sell you same product quality as common products, and will charge you 10x more... Because big brand is worth it.
Or is it?
No, you're ascribing motivations that simply don't exist. I said I thought I had read it was the case, but couldn't remember where, and might simply be mistaken (or misremembering), and was happy to be corrected by someone with firm facts.
Just one Pomona factory makes all Fluke, Pomona, and some Keysight leads? Do you have any firm knowledge of this or are you guessing? I am curious as to how they produce two types of TL71 (good ones and bad ones) in the same factory without getting confused.
As for the VAG point, you are telling me I am wrong because I am right? This is very confusing...
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Just a datapoint. My Keysight leads say they were made by Pomona on the bag.
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As to whether Pomona make Brymen leads, I thought I had read that somewhere, but can't remember where. Certainly I could easily be mistaken on this, and if anyone has firm knowledge on the subject I will be happy to stand corrected.
However, claiming that Pomona and Fluke leads have no differences is disingenuous. That's like claiming all Skodas and Audis are the same because there are some common parts, and they are part of the same corporation. Or Volkswagens and Seats, pick any two from the VAG corp.[/color][/size][/b]
So after all this talk about data, rumors from the internet are also a data point..
You were prepared to believe that Pomona makes probes for Brymen because of your cognitive bias that only brand name companies make good products, and that others only make cheap shit. So if Brymen makes something good it is because somebody else makes good probes for them and somebody else designed meters for them or they stole the design....
I have, during the years, tried all kinds of meter cables. Worst ones were very expensive Fuke modular set (150€ set, tips and accesories were fine but cables were absolute crap, breaking all the time. Replaced cables many years ago with UNI-T made ones and they are working perefectly since). And I was VERY gentle with the cables, because they were very expensive, lab use only... Another ones that are crap are tiny Pomona needle types.. They have occasional bad contact, and wires are annoyingly thin, if you work over the device or inside, they keep getting tangled and keep getting hooked to stuff all the time.. OTOH Probemaster needle tip pogo types are fantastic..
And Pomona and Fluke probes are literally SAME. There is one factory (Pomona ) that makes probes for both brands (and Pomona sells to others too, like Keysight). There is no separate Fuke DMM leads facility. Pomona factory is that.
There are some probes that are only Fluke branded, with visual design that goes with it.
Welcome to the corporate efficiency optimization...
And you are exactly wrong about Skoda, WV, Audi and Seat. On the most of the range ( if you discount high end special cars that are only sold under premium brands part of the group) commonality of parts is pretty much more than 80%.
They are (except visually, outside and in the cabin) pretty much same cars, for the most important parts (whole motor group with transmision, chassis platform with suspension, security platform, etc).
And funny enough, components being mostly the same, the care and pride to assemble them makes a difference..
Our Czech friends take great pride in their legacy, and in the whole VW group, Skodas are most reliable. More than Audi..
Corporate assholes know very well how people are blind when you slap on a big brand. They will happily sell you same product quality as common products, and will charge you 10x more... Because big brand is worth it.
Or is it?
No, you're ascribing motivations that simply don't exist. I said I thought I had read it was the case, but couldn't remember where, and might simply be mistaken (or misremembering), and was happy to be corrected by someone with firm facts.
Just one Pomona factory makes all Fluke, Pomona, and some Keysight leads? Do you have any firm knowledge of this or are you guessing? I am curious as to how they produce two types of TL71 (good ones and bad ones) in the same factory without getting confused.
As for the VAG point, you are telling me I am wrong because I am right? This is very confusing...
There is no more Fluke or Pomona company. There are only brand names with certain conglomerate resources allocated to them. Those resources are dynamic and change at the whim of their investor/owner structure overlords.. Whatever is best for the pie charts for their next shareholders meeting..
Corporate might be outsourcing probes production or simply buying others products elsewhere too... Look at this:
https://www.pomonaelectronics.com/products/dmm-test-leads-and-probes/smd-test-probe-w-sharp-spring-mounted-tip-2mm (https://www.pomonaelectronics.com/products/dmm-test-leads-and-probes/smd-test-probe-w-sharp-spring-mounted-tip-2mm)
I'm buying these from TME under brand ELECTRO-PJP:
https://www.tme.eu/hr/en/details/pj464iec-r/probes-test-plugs/electro-pjp/464-iec-rt/ (https://www.tme.eu/hr/en/details/pj464iec-r/probes-test-plugs/electro-pjp/464-iec-rt/)
So even Pomona and Fluke are selling you somebody else's inexpensive products at premium prices because of the name.
And these Electro PJP are very good quality needle tip probes. Tips are spring loaded, they are not replaceable but price is very good..
As for cars tangent, I said exactly the opposite from you. So confusion indeed. On which part, I'm not so sure anymore...
Best,
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So, there is more than one factory. No surprise there, and no surprise that they are outsourcing (to the lowest bidder no doubt) some of their production. The bean counters are going to damage the brand image in the long term with this strategy, but since these days short term results are all that seem to count, nothing will be done until it's too late, quite likely.
The point I was making (perhaps attempting to make is more appropriate since if it is not understood as I meant it, is it really made..?) with the VAG example is that you can get quite different results in terms of both quality and style with broadly the same components.
You make a good point about the pride of the workforce; in my experience this is a major factor, though a well designed production system should work to even it out (though perhaps at the expense of skill level and motivation level of the workers, but then VAG and others like this as it enables them to exert downwards pressure on wages). Personally I believe the last real Skoda was rear-engined, but then I'm a petrolhead as well...
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So, there is more than one factory. No surprise there, and no surprise that they are outsourcing (to the lowest bidder no doubt) some of their production. The bean counters are going to damage the brand image in the long term with this strategy, but since these days short term results are all that seem to count, nothing will be done until it's too late, quite likely.
The point I was making (perhaps attempting to make is more appropriate since if it is not understood as I meant it, is it really made..?) with the VAG example is that you can get quite different results in terms of both quality and style with broadly the same components.
You make a good point about the pride of the workforce; in my experience this is a major factor, though a well designed production system should work to even it out (though perhaps at the expense of skill level and motivation level of the workers, but then VAG and others like this as it enables them to exert downwards pressure on wages). Personally I believe the last real Skoda was rear-engined, but then I'm a petrolhead as well...
130RS ^-^
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The differences in probabilities here is significant, I do not buy your analogy.
And I do not buy your assertion that everybody always needs to shop at Luis Vuitton to make sure they're getting quality that can be handed down to the next generation.
If I was going to "spend a bit more on leads" I'd go for Brymens. They have decent leads for 11 Euros.
https://brymen.eu/shop/silicone-test-leads-bl21s2-t4sc-brymen/
For a set of really, really sharp pointy leads though, those Aliexpress leads are awesome.
(if you want to argue that they're too sharp and pointy for general use then I might buy that argument - they're scary sharp, they're the only leads I put the safety caps on when I store them)
Luis Vuitton? Seriously? :palm:
My leads are not exotic just Fluke TL175 and I do replace them 3 times a year. I keep breaking the tips.
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My leads are not exotic just Fluke TL175 and I do replace them 3 times a year. I keep breaking the tips.
Those seem to be soft copper or something not stainless steel or CuBe. They bend like cookie dough. No problem for straight up hand probing, but if you hand or wedge them in someplace they can get bent pretty easily. I use the screw-on alligators with them whenever I can.